You know, I'm starting to notice that every time the lore talks about ancient Nords, they're almost always very emotional. And it's never portrayed as being a bad thing either, but as a symbol of power. When Ysgramor wept, his tears became Wuuthrad. During the early parts of the Dragon Wars, men are described as having their hearts broken by the futility of their efforts. It's very cool to see, and I wish the game had placed more of an emphasis on warrior poets and emotion, at least among the traditional Stormcloaks
Wuuthrad was created by Ahzidal after Saarthal was sacked by the elves. The Nords are known as much for their poetry as they are their battle prowess, that's why their recount of history sounds the way it does.
@@theonlybilge Shor had other Gods follow him. The Nords worshipped their own God's in Atmora, the Et'Ada who sided with Lorkhan. And Alduin as the Time God who is Shor/Lorkhan's rival
Young dovah, I understand your plight, but who is truly worthy to hold the fate of all in their own? Sometimes, fin course do things fen kos taken, nuz ni nol daar wo paar kos nii in.
Alduin couldn't be all bad as Ysgramor was likely one of his Dragon Priest. "If Ysgramor was indeed a "dragon", most likely he was a Dragon Priest - in the Late Merethic Era, it would be unlikely for a leader of Ysgramor's reported stature to be unconnected to the Dragon Cult. But connecting the Nord hero Ysgramor with the now-reviled Dragon Cult is of course anathema to those who favor chauvinism over historical truth." - Kurt Kuhlmann, Co-designer of Skyrim Even Ysgramor's son, Yngol, is shown to be a dragon priest if you visit his tomb in Elder Scrolls V at a high enough level.
Well, Ysgramor was pretty evil in the end, don't forger. So I mean... I can't imagine Dragon Priest with a Cult of Dragon Worshippers and Shor Lovers would've been all too well accepted by the Snow Elves for too long, especially if in their hunger for power, the Cleverman tried to tap the Eye of Magnus. And that reminds me, Ahzidal lived in Saarthal and also ended up as a Dragon Priest, so, lots of connections there.
@@thalmoragent9344 Just as the Thalmor are not evil because they are Thalmor, members of the Dragon Cult are not evil because they are members of the Dragon Cult. The Snow Elves got what they deserved for their villainy. Even Auri-El abandoned them and it's not hard to hazard a guess as to why.
@@shalidor8102 Auriel didn't abandon them, otherwise Gelebor wouldn't have his blessing. You can't even tell me what or why or who went on in Saarthal the night it was Destroyed, but you'd say the entire race was evil? If Auriel abandoned them over that instance, wouldn't that mean he's abandoned all Elves since they've all had some of their kind do questionable and bad things alongside the good? Why punish the entire race over the actions of a few, especially when it was humans they messed with and nothing that Auriel wouldn't have been similar minded too? By your logic, wouldn't all the Gods have abandoned all the Races if that was the case? All the evil stuff Tiber Septim did and yet he still gets so much love from so many fans... why is that? I know not all Dragon Cultists are bad, we even know some like Vahlok the Jailer were nuanced and had their good deeds as well. My argument was that even in the light of Alduin's predicament, Ysgramor wouldn't be good by extension just by being a Dragon Priest. And whether good or bad, a society that loves Lorkhan and Dominating Dragons would be seen as SUS by just about any race of Mer, especially the Anuic ones
@@shalidor8102 he wiped out their entire race indiscriminately over one attack at saarthal. whether the snow elves were in the wrong or not it's still genocide. ysgamor was clearly an extremely cruel if not evil person.
Nothing wrong? Bah, I love your poetic essays, but there is a fly in this ointment. Alduin most certainly ignored his destructive purpose for a very long time in the Merethic Era in order to create the dragon cult and exercise political power over dragons as well as humans. Tyranny spawns rebellion, of course. Is it fair to say that Alduin didn't like defiance? Made him quite angry. It is this anger that, in my view, rekindled his interest in destroying Mundus, which he had so energetically sought to dominate for a very long time. The power of the Elder Scroll (Dragon) ended his defense of his tyranny; when he arrived in the 4th Era, the anger he felt was redoubled. Little remained of his dominance - dead priests, mainly. He could raise slain dragons from their burial mounds, but what inconvenience! That is a task that takes considerable time and spell effort *just to raise one dragon.* Annoying! So Alduin got his mad on and refocused his efforts to ending Mundus. That'll show 'em! I suppose if you see nothing wrong in childish impulsivity, cruelty, bullying behavior, selfishness, and arrogance; I suppose if you see nothing wrong in Alduin ignoring his prime purpose until defiance among dragons and mortals made him so angry enough to give up dominance in exchange for revenge; then your thesis holds. But to me, the thesis seems to have an incongruous wriggling fly in it that is difficult to overlook. Alduin was a big jerk, not a focused, determined World-Eater. He had the power to Eat the World and end the kalpa, but he put it off until the Dragon War yanked the opportunity from between his claws. He arrived in the 4th Era stripped of nearly all of his temporal and political power - even the dragons he raised questioned whether he had the right stuff to fulfill his original purpose. In the event, he did not. He fought badly against the Last Dragonborn at the Throat of the World, retreated to gobble some souls in Sovngard, fought badly again against the Ancient Tongues and the Last Dragonborn, and ended in failure. Dead Shor's influence and Alduin's own ill-focused nature conspired to bring about his abject defeat. We should expect more from the mythic World Eater than we got. *Alduin was incompetent.* He did nothing wrong? Dude, Alduin did *everything* wrong.
He went against its own nature to do as he pleased or so we think. Maybe the "end of the world" is just absolute domination/control or maybe he really did let greed win him over and making him fail on both his role and his desire. I think its quite open to interpretation.
@@NBlanc. Alduin had pretty much all of the control he wanted - over both dragons and humans - for several thousand years in the Merethic Age. Did that amount to 'Eating the World'? I do *not* think the question is open to interpretation. Obviously, the answer is 'no.' He paid no attention to his original purpose, and even during the Dragon War, he was fighting to maintain his tyranny, not to end the world. Only after the Elder Scroll ended his grip on power, and he showed up in the 4th Era stripped of his dragon priests and his loyal dragons, did he refocus on Eating the World. By then it was too little, too late.
@@Urgelt Then its the latter, that is why I also wrote the possibility of him letting greed win him over, thus making him fail in both role (the second time) and desire (the first time).
The parallels between the Mer in general and the Dragons is fascinating. The Mer had their immortality sundered by Lorkhan, the Dragons have their immortality sundered by the Dragonborn (they absorb their souls). The Thalmor seem to want to destroy all of the towers and bring about the end of the Mundus through domination, mimicking Alduin. I wish we had more Elven perspectives on Dragons in general, they seem like they'd be very important to the elves.
All he did was the same thing every Man and Elf has done when given the chance; Seek the power to improve his station in life. Just as mortals seek to be kings and emperors, the children of Gods seek to become Gods themselves.
@@Im-Not-a-Dog No, Alduin is a God not a god, he's the Nordic Dragon God of Time of the Nordic Pantheon therefore the Nordic version of Akatosh. Difference between the Imperial Pantheon and the Nordic Pantheon is the positions of the Time God and the Missing God, in the Imperial Pantheon the Time God(Akatosh) is the Chief of the Pantheon while the Missing God(Shezarr) is the wellspring of the Imperial Pantheon whereas in the Nordic Pantheon the Missing God(Shor) is the Chief of the Nordic Pantheon while the Time God(Alduin) is the wellspring of the Pantheon.
@@Im-Not-a-Dog I agree he's got to be a god not a God. I mean for a supposed literal "Time God" he got out witted and jettisoned through time. The very thing he should be capable of manipulating instead of being subjected to. I mean yeah there was an Elderscroll involved and that's a whole other can of worms. Though at least in my opinion the Narrative of Aludin actually being a prideful first made dragon given authority over those under him let that pride get the better of him and shirked his duties that inevitably led to his defeat befits his actions and condenscending behavior he has to the Dragonborn, who if he was smart would of either ensured his defeat at Helegen or at Kynesgrove instead of taunting him. It's like you'd accept him as his supposed role as a spoiled 'first born' who got full of themselves and that led to their own undoing by the 'last born'. Or an incompentent Time God who got duped by some mortals, got super petty and got sent flying with his tail between his legs and chilled out in Sovengard until he was defeated as we know him. At this point it's a battle between Myth (Nordic Accounts) and Reality (His actual actions and those that led to his undoing)
After Alduin interrupted our beheading, he should have gone on his merry way. Instead, Alduin chose to fuck around. In fucking around, Alduin found out-a finding that was proportionate with his fucking around.
I'm not sure if this is aldmeri propaganda or absurd mental gymnastics to justify the fact that Bethesda couldn't be bothered to do the bare minimum in creating an antagonist.
I look forward to every new Drewmora Elder Scrolls video. Just as I would look forward to Drew the Daedrologist videos on Fudgemuppet, but that was in a previous Kalpa. The recent topics have been excellent as well. The Marukhati Selective and Middle Dawn, and now the discourse over Alduin's purpose. TES content and discussion has come so far and it's in no small part thanks to channels like yours.
LET'S FUCKING GO! I love TES lore, and despite the prominence of them in Skyrim I often feel the dragons get overlooked. Alduin is seriously fascinating and one of my favorite characters, so I'm very excited to see what you have to say Drew!
I feel like I can never get to these fast enough!! Love the content and your solo journey. Makes my miserable life better. Thanks for all the hard work and dedication your put in to all that you do!
What if the Thalmor "succeed" and discover Lorkhan's greatest trick? That there never was a "before" before mundus. That it was always an endless series of kalpas going on for eternity. And so their efforts to liberate themselves from this mortal coil merely ushers in a new one.
5:33 I would argue that Lorkhan loses the battle, but wins the war. His creation continued and His will is always carried out. 7:41 But as you said in the Monkey-Priest video, Maruhk cleansed the Elven taint from Akatosh with the Dance of Towers. In doing so, he created a purely "Human" Akatosh. Since Gods exist throughout time as a constant, when the Elven/Human Akatosh was made just Human, he was made such throuought all time retroactively, meaning that he would have been the Pure Human Akatosh before Allesia made him into the Elven/Human composite, which was later undone by Maruhk. Its cyclical causality.
Well, I think that's what makes him insane. Akatosh never existed before the 1st Era, yet because he's a Time God, he retroactively has a presence in the Dawn Era, even if he technically/originally had no part in it. So Auriel is now, once again, Purely Elf with little connection to Akatosh outside of the title "Time God", and same goes for Akatosh the, "human" God of Time. As for the Lorkhan bit, I'd argue its a never-ending War of Man and Mer. The first major War in the Dawn Era was "won" by Auriel but in truth that was just "Part 1", kinda like how WW1 and WW2 are seen as different wars, but many argue WW2 really is just a continuation of WW1 but they just shifted some major "players" between the "break time". I see it like how in some games, when the first half of a match is done, but the game decides to switch some players across teams to balance it out, if that makes sense. Some say that's the reality of both World Wars, and I'd say the same is between Lorkhan and Auriel. My homie Auriel is losing though, so we'll see what the Thalmor do, for better or worse for Elven-kind and the Dominion as a whole.
@@thalmoragent9344 But he did exist during the 1st Era and late Merethic Era, otherwise he couldn't have made the pact with Allesia, which was made before she invented the Elven/Human composite version of Akatosh.
@@Im-Not-a-Dog Well from what I understand, and actually I think Fudgemuppet (Drew specifically) had also commented on this, but I thought the idea was; She claimed it was Akatosh but it was likely Lorkhan (or Shezzar, I guess from her perspective) that did so, not Akatosh. The Ruby Necklace was made by a drop of Lorkhan's blood that landed into basically a crystal, and so it's arguably more so Lorkhan that visited her, but she wasn't gonna say that out loud otherwise her Elf buddies that aided her Rebellion wouldn't have felt too comfortable sticking with her Empire. Thus Akatosh was born as a result. Then later, Maruhk's Selective channeled the Aurbis through the tower and made it so Akatosh would no longer have connection with Auriel.
Just found out that you went solo. You were honestly always my favourite and now I she a bunch of new videos to fall asleep to. Definitely gonna subscribe.
I am not buying all this nonsense about dragons and Akatosh, and Alduion being the fragment of a god. I think that dragons are just terrible beasts who came from some ancient continent and then dominated weaker races and created a cult about themselves.
I love to hear that buttery voice talking Elder Scrolls lore! Fantastic job on the video, Drew. You've really managed to put things in such a way that people will be able to pick it up easily. :D
I'm glad you continued to make videos! You were always my favorite narrator and scriptwriter. I don't usually have a ton to say but I'll try and at least comment for the algorithm bc you deserve it ♥️
Why did I miss so much of Alduin's story when I played Skyrim? Was I too distracted diving into falmer caves? Or maybe I was too focused on racing through the main story? I really wish I knew more about Alduin when I killed him. It would have been way more inspiring knowing he was a dwindling avatar of destruction. I knew he was 'supposed' to be apocalyptic, but I never understood why he seemed so pathetic. It just seemed like bad writing to me, not some tragic consequence of slothfulness and arrogance.
That's what I love about Alduin. First his desire to dominate is innate for all dragons - and he is the most powerful one. He's not evil by choice, but by definition. Secondly it was his goddamn Main quest to eat the world. This whole new Kalpa stuff seems to have some relevance in this universe, no? :D
What I’m appreciating most about these videos is that sometimes I’m hit by ideas I never would have had on my own. I love this connection between Auriel and Alduin’s purpose. Keep up the good work 💪
Thanks for this amazing Content, Drew! I've been saying for so long that Auriel and Akatosh are far more different than most fans admit. They're not fundamentally the same as so many fight to claim. The difference isn't nearly in name, but their very beliefs and actions. It makes sense that the Nords see the Time God as the Destroyer, as opposed to the Liberator the Elves do. And Vice Versa A never ending cycle of death and destruction. Auriel and the Elves wants to end the scheme of Lorkhan, but Lorkhan always finds a way to bring about Chaos every Kalpa, leading to an unending battle of Light and Dark, Creation and Destruction. The Redguards try and walk-about it and avoid Lorkhan's realm of 'Dead World skins', the Thalmor wish to aid Auriel by truly sundering the very foundations of the Mundus, etc The forces of Anu fight for Freedom from the Kalpa of the Mundus, the forces of Padomay wish to preserve it, and so it's inevitable the two clash... over and over. Man V Mer, 2 Natures of the Aurbis ever tumultuous. Perhaps Lorkhan upended the balance since Aetherius and Oblivion are perfect opposites, but yet the Mundus has been titled "the House of Sithis" for a reason, tilting the scales closer to darkness.
@@ondolemarthejusticiar And you, my fellow Justiciar. May the Dominion achieve victory in its endeavors. That said, the true Monarchy must be restored if the Thalmor are to honor Auriel dutifully. Once that's done, the Dominion can go under a banner that signifies the Royalty of Auriel and Unity of the now-fallen Trinimac
@@ondolemarthejusticiar Indeed. May the light of Aetherius above and Auriel's written Mantra's bring you to true enlightenment brother. To Light and Freedom for the Dominion! 🙏
@@Super50ldier Yeah of course you would, anyone who willingly follows the Agent of Chaos only considers genocide as an option...which is why the Children of Lorkhan have committed more genocidal campaigns than any other race of Mer or Beast combined.
@@Crovax "show don't tell". Much cooler to feel the impact of the lore through gameplay than read a book that contains lore that seems to contradict gameplay
How sure are we that Auri-El still wants to destroy Mundus? Perhaps he has changed his mind. Or perhaps he is shattered into multiple aspects that disagree, a mirror of Lorkhan having his heart ripped out, his body cleaved in twain and his power tapped and divided. And maybe a combination of Auri-El and Lorkhan isn't as unstable as it may originally seem. After all, the interplay of Anu and Padomay created the third primordial, Nir, and the mixture of their blood gave rise to the Aedra.
On my first playthrough I went a whole year before turning in the Dragonstone. I knew some bad shit would happen if I gave it to that shady wizard. And sure enough, dragons. Now I just keep that and guard it myself, and the dragons stay in check. Checkmate.
A Dragonborn is Shor granting a mortal vessel the power of his enemy-self Auri-El; The power of dragon blood. The part of Akatosh that is still Shor is taking the opportunity of his merged aspect to literally give humans the power of his enemy. It does not matter that he is dead if he can wield his opponents own power but do it with greater cunning. Also I believe the reason that Alduin seeks to conquer rather than consume is because he was corrupted by Shor as part of the merging. The ambition to conquer and rule is a human trait and one they recieved from Shor. Look at most of the noteable dragonborns: Miraak, Alessia, Talos, the line of human emperors: they all sought to control and rule, often through conquest; This desire infected Alduin and turned him from his course.
Always love the hear about Lorkhan vs Auriel, probably my favorite topic Btw Drew, i'm hoping for some more Elden Ring content, i've loved your videos on that so far
Love your videos, haven't watched this yet but looked at the title and yes, he's a fundamental universal force. It'd be like if we got eaten up by the sun expanding but before it killed us we treated it like it was an evil villain. It's just from an extremely temporary human perspective to think Alduin was evil.
Alduin is the nords' step dragon daddy giving them some tough love. its a test to the mortals. cool. they grow stronger fending off the shor aspect love it
I dont think Alduin was affected by the formation of Akatosh in the 8 divines. He was corrupted and banished long before the human rebellion in Cyrodiil. I see Alduin's utility is as a failsafe to prevent Daedra from conquering and controlling Nirn. He is to eat the world to save it and have it begin a new. But the worship of man corrupted him and caused the forsaking of his destiny. He probably was supposed to have 'eaten' the world when the 'good' Daedra caused a rift in Auriel's chosen children (Aldmer) and defeated the champion Trinimac. But Alduin himself was to far corrupted by his worship to act when he was supposed to. I disagree that Shor was combined with Auriel into Akatosh, but that Alduin was was combined with Auriel. Auriel representing the beginning of time in the Dawn, Alduin being the end of time as the World-eater, and Akatosh representing the overall flow of time on Nirn. The pictures of Akatosh having a human face isnt to remind nords of Shor but actually so the Nords don't throw a hissy fit in worshipping an elf face (the cosmopolitan and political reasons). Awesome video still!!!
What if Shor/Lorkhan bribed Alduin for the privilege to devour souls in Sovngarde and rule over Nords in exchange for not ending the world? But instead of making him stronger, Alduin became weaker due to him not doing his main purpose in the world. Then as he became weaker, series of events happened that lead to Alduin's banishment. So now Lorkhan is happy that his world is not going to end. But then hen Alduin once again emerged, Akatosh created the Last Dragonborn so that he can kill Alduin. And the reason why the Dragonborn can't absorb Alduin's soul is because he was absorbed back to Akatosh to be reset into the true world eater that he was meant to be.
In other words, Alduin knew the Last Dragonborn would destroy his corrupted aspect. Alduin will return with an army of elves to fight Shor and the humans who are waiting for the Convention.
You're right he is a man in Sovngarde. But some of the early Nordic myths get quite... weird. There's a story of Wulfharth and the nords being turned into toddlers by Alduin. The Ysgramor dragon theory isn't canon, but it's interesting. The idea is that the 500 Companions travelled through time/space after destroying Lyg, sailing in a ship called the World-Eater's Wake. I'll talk more about it in a future vid! :)
Not necessarily. One could argue that man handling Alduin back into his intended purposes by sending his soul back up to Auri-El, to return later, was the reason for the Dragonborn. I play as an Altmer, and like to think of it as being the champion of Auri-El, reuniting fragments of the soul of Aka, to be later returned to the father. A lot of things seem to make it make sense. One example: being led by "fate" to acquiring Auriel's weapons.
Great video Drew but I had a thought. Don't you only get to be dragonborn through Akatosh's blessing? So in a way isn't he signing off on the dragonborn coming along and stopping Alduin?
I heard a theory out there somewhere that the evil Alduin we see is like an aspect of Alduin’s real form. That we’re just killing a branch of his true power, one that happened to also take its own path and go mad with power
so i JUST subscribed to fudgemuppet about a month ago, started binging videos and podcasts, finally get to new videos and bam no more drew. just when i started to really like your voice you go and leave me all alone. i felt more betrayed than azura 😩
My issue with this whole "dragon bad" thing is that "dragonBORN" is worse not only born of dragons having soul of a dragon...but then goes around and kills dragons "so quirky" and look at him he can steal their soul like that is beyuond fucked up. You can't even side with them
What is the connection between Alduin and the Alessean mythological origin of akatosh? Did the middle dawn dragonbreak create the dragons themselves? Because I believe Alduin shouldn't call his father akatosh if his original selve was Auriel.
Crackpot theory: Dragons are a subgroup of old Ehlnofey that retained their aedric power instead of procreating and becoming long lived mortals like the elves
I definitely like this sort of schizo interpretation of Akatosh and I think it satisfactorally answers a question brought up in an older Fudge Muppet video about whether the Amulet of Kings/Dragonborn is a gift of Akatosh or Lorkhan: it's both. It satisfies the idea that the Amulet of Kings is associated with a Shezzarine(Pelinal Whitestrake) and the dragon god Auri-el.
I hope that when Talos and the Numidium return in the 5th era the Numidium is going to resurrect Lorkhan or becomes lorkhan with something to do with his heart and the moons. I also hope when the Numidium returns so will the dwemner.
Oh my, so glad I found you again, Drew! How do you fit Miraak into this? Or do you not consider him as favoured by Akatosh? He was "seemingly" made dragonborn to deal with Alduin originally..?
You know, I'm starting to notice that every time the lore talks about ancient Nords, they're almost always very emotional. And it's never portrayed as being a bad thing either, but as a symbol of power. When Ysgramor wept, his tears became Wuuthrad. During the early parts of the Dragon Wars, men are described as having their hearts broken by the futility of their efforts. It's very cool to see, and I wish the game had placed more of an emphasis on warrior poets and emotion, at least among the traditional Stormcloaks
Reminds me of Achilles and Priam weeping together in The Iliad
Wuuthrad was created by Ahzidal after Saarthal was sacked by the elves. The Nords are known as much for their poetry as they are their battle prowess, that's why their recount of history sounds the way it does.
The Nords also shouldn't be worshipping the divines at all, they should be worshipping Shor.
@@theonlybilge nah the totems frfr
@@theonlybilge
Shor had other Gods follow him.
The Nords worshipped their own God's in Atmora, the Et'Ada who sided with Lorkhan. And Alduin as the Time God who is Shor/Lorkhan's rival
BABE WAKE UP NEW DREWMORA JUST DROPPED
Everyone must know. Immediately
😂🤣 truth
I AM AWAKE
AWAKEN MY MASTERS!
Me too happy to be aware and awake and enjoying 😊
I like this world, I don’t want it to end.
And yet you may have just quickened this world's demise, young Dov.
Paaz. A fair answer.
Finally! I get to have conversation with a fellow dov.
Young dovah, I understand your plight, but who is truly worthy to hold the fate of all in their own? Sometimes, fin course do things fen kos taken, nuz ni nol daar wo paar kos nii in.
Alduin couldn't be all bad as Ysgramor was likely one of his Dragon Priest.
"If Ysgramor was indeed a "dragon", most likely he was a Dragon Priest - in the Late Merethic Era, it would be unlikely for a leader of Ysgramor's reported stature to be unconnected to the Dragon Cult. But connecting the Nord hero Ysgramor with the now-reviled Dragon Cult is of course anathema to those who favor chauvinism over historical truth."
- Kurt Kuhlmann, Co-designer of Skyrim
Even Ysgramor's son, Yngol, is shown to be a dragon priest if you visit his tomb in Elder Scrolls V at a high enough level.
Well, Ysgramor was pretty evil in the end, don't forger. So I mean... I can't imagine Dragon Priest with a Cult of Dragon Worshippers and Shor Lovers would've been all too well accepted by the Snow Elves for too long, especially if in their hunger for power, the Cleverman tried to tap the Eye of Magnus.
And that reminds me, Ahzidal lived in Saarthal and also ended up as a Dragon Priest, so, lots of connections there.
@@thalmoragent9344 Just as the Thalmor are not evil because they are Thalmor, members of the Dragon Cult are not evil because they are members of the Dragon Cult. The Snow Elves got what they deserved for their villainy. Even Auri-El abandoned them and it's not hard to hazard a guess as to why.
@@shalidor8102
Auriel didn't abandon them, otherwise Gelebor wouldn't have his blessing. You can't even tell me what or why or who went on in Saarthal the night it was Destroyed, but you'd say the entire race was evil?
If Auriel abandoned them over that instance, wouldn't that mean he's abandoned all Elves since they've all had some of their kind do questionable and bad things alongside the good? Why punish the entire race over the actions of a few, especially when it was humans they messed with and nothing that Auriel wouldn't have been similar minded too?
By your logic, wouldn't all the Gods have abandoned all the Races if that was the case? All the evil stuff Tiber Septim did and yet he still gets so much love from so many fans... why is that?
I know not all Dragon Cultists are bad, we even know some like Vahlok the Jailer were nuanced and had their good deeds as well.
My argument was that even in the light of Alduin's predicament, Ysgramor wouldn't be good by extension just by being a Dragon Priest. And whether good or bad, a society that loves Lorkhan and Dominating Dragons would be seen as SUS by just about any race of Mer, especially the Anuic ones
@@shalidor8102 he wiped out their entire race indiscriminately over one attack at saarthal. whether the snow elves were in the wrong or not it's still genocide. ysgamor was clearly an extremely cruel if not evil person.
Ysgramor did do a genocide, so y'know, not quite the pinnacle of morality
There's one thing I love more than Elder Scrolls lore: having it told by our beloved Daedrologist: Drewmora
Why doesn't Drew have 100k subs yet. Who's slacking
Facts, Fudgemuppet has a ton of subs, lots of them should've came here with Drew for sure
@@thalmoragent9344 I hate to be agreeing with a Thalmor Agent
@@WolfAgent7
Well, just cause I'm against the Empire and Lorkhan, doesn't mean I'm automatically a bad guy... just saying, think about it 👉🏾
Ain’t gonna lie haven’t watched mudgefuppet since you left, I’m here for my favorite Deadrologist not Scott or Michael.
1:05 The way Alduin stares...
*I HAVE RETURNED* ... to talk to you about your car's extended warranty.
Nothing wrong? Bah, I love your poetic essays, but there is a fly in this ointment.
Alduin most certainly ignored his destructive purpose for a very long time in the Merethic Era in order to create the dragon cult and exercise political power over dragons as well as humans. Tyranny spawns rebellion, of course. Is it fair to say that Alduin didn't like defiance? Made him quite angry. It is this anger that, in my view, rekindled his interest in destroying Mundus, which he had so energetically sought to dominate for a very long time. The power of the Elder Scroll (Dragon) ended his defense of his tyranny; when he arrived in the 4th Era, the anger he felt was redoubled. Little remained of his dominance - dead priests, mainly. He could raise slain dragons from their burial mounds, but what inconvenience! That is a task that takes considerable time and spell effort *just to raise one dragon.* Annoying!
So Alduin got his mad on and refocused his efforts to ending Mundus. That'll show 'em!
I suppose if you see nothing wrong in childish impulsivity, cruelty, bullying behavior, selfishness, and arrogance; I suppose if you see nothing wrong in Alduin ignoring his prime purpose until defiance among dragons and mortals made him so angry enough to give up dominance in exchange for revenge; then your thesis holds.
But to me, the thesis seems to have an incongruous wriggling fly in it that is difficult to overlook.
Alduin was a big jerk, not a focused, determined World-Eater. He had the power to Eat the World and end the kalpa, but he put it off until the Dragon War yanked the opportunity from between his claws. He arrived in the 4th Era stripped of nearly all of his temporal and political power - even the dragons he raised questioned whether he had the right stuff to fulfill his original purpose. In the event, he did not. He fought badly against the Last Dragonborn at the Throat of the World, retreated to gobble some souls in Sovngard, fought badly again against the Ancient Tongues and the Last Dragonborn, and ended in failure. Dead Shor's influence and Alduin's own ill-focused nature conspired to bring about his abject defeat.
We should expect more from the mythic World Eater than we got. *Alduin was incompetent.* He did nothing wrong? Dude, Alduin did *everything* wrong.
Well said.
He went against its own nature to do as he pleased or so we think. Maybe the "end of the world" is just absolute domination/control or maybe he really did let greed win him over and making him fail on both his role and his desire. I think its quite open to interpretation.
@@NBlanc. Alduin had pretty much all of the control he wanted - over both dragons and humans - for several thousand years in the Merethic Age. Did that amount to 'Eating the World'? I do *not* think the question is open to interpretation. Obviously, the answer is 'no.'
He paid no attention to his original purpose, and even during the Dragon War, he was fighting to maintain his tyranny, not to end the world. Only after the Elder Scroll ended his grip on power, and he showed up in the 4th Era stripped of his dragon priests and his loyal dragons, did he refocus on Eating the World. By then it was too little, too late.
@@Urgelt Then its the latter, that is why I also wrote the possibility of him letting greed win him over, thus making him fail in both role (the second time) and desire (the first time).
In a way Rykard is similar to him, had a clear purpose and vision at first, and then just completely fucked up midway through it.
I love when Super Mario helped the last Dragonborn best his brother Alduigi in Sovengarde
The parallels between the Mer in general and the Dragons is fascinating. The Mer had their immortality sundered by Lorkhan, the Dragons have their immortality sundered by the Dragonborn (they absorb their souls). The Thalmor seem to want to destroy all of the towers and bring about the end of the Mundus through domination, mimicking Alduin. I wish we had more Elven perspectives on Dragons in general, they seem like they'd be very important to the elves.
Alduin's greatest mistake was right at the beginning when he saved the life of someone about to be executed.
A person often meets their fate on the road they take to avoid it.
Welp, I knew worshipping the Nine Divines wasn't worth it. Praise Shor!
All he did was the same thing every Man and Elf has done when given the chance; Seek the power to improve his station in life.
Just as mortals seek to be kings and emperors, the children of Gods seek to become Gods themselves.
Yeah but... he was already a God to begin with 😅
@@thalmoragent9344 Yeah....but just like, a god, not a God....ya know? Lol
@@Im-Not-a-Dog No, Alduin is a God not a god, he's the Nordic Dragon God of Time of the Nordic Pantheon therefore the Nordic version of Akatosh. Difference between the Imperial Pantheon and the Nordic Pantheon is the positions of the Time God and the Missing God, in the Imperial Pantheon the Time God(Akatosh) is the Chief of the Pantheon while the Missing God(Shezarr) is the wellspring of the Imperial Pantheon whereas in the Nordic Pantheon the Missing God(Shor) is the Chief of the Nordic Pantheon while the Time God(Alduin) is the wellspring of the Pantheon.
@@Super50ldier yeah, so basically, hes a god, not a God.
@@Im-Not-a-Dog I agree he's got to be a god not a God. I mean for a supposed literal "Time God" he got out witted and jettisoned through time. The very thing he should be capable of manipulating instead of being subjected to. I mean yeah there was an Elderscroll involved and that's a whole other can of worms. Though at least in my opinion the Narrative of Aludin actually being a prideful first made dragon given authority over those under him let that pride get the better of him and shirked his duties that inevitably led to his defeat befits his actions and condenscending behavior he has to the Dragonborn, who if he was smart would of either ensured his defeat at Helegen or at Kynesgrove instead of taunting him.
It's like you'd accept him as his supposed role as a spoiled 'first born' who got full of themselves and that led to their own undoing by the 'last born'. Or an incompentent Time God who got duped by some mortals, got super petty and got sent flying with his tail between his legs and chilled out in Sovengard until he was defeated as we know him.
At this point it's a battle between Myth (Nordic Accounts) and Reality (His actual actions and those that led to his undoing)
Zu'u Alduin, zok sahrot do naan ko Lein fen du hin sille ko Sovngarde, zu'u unslaad zu'u nis oblaan
Praise Alduin mightiest of the dragons!
After Alduin interrupted our beheading, he should have gone on his merry way. Instead, Alduin chose to fuck around. In fucking around, Alduin found out-a finding that was proportionate with his fucking around.
I'm not sure if this is aldmeri propaganda or absurd mental gymnastics to justify the fact that Bethesda couldn't be bothered to do the bare minimum in creating an antagonist.
This is gonna be good
I look forward to every new Drewmora Elder Scrolls video. Just as I would look forward to Drew the Daedrologist videos on Fudgemuppet, but that was in a previous Kalpa. The recent topics have been excellent as well. The Marukhati Selective and Middle Dawn, and now the discourse over Alduin's purpose. TES content and discussion has come so far and it's in no small part thanks to channels like yours.
Finally, my fix can be sated. Thanks for the video!
This is so sick. I'm so happy you have your own channel now these videos have been some of the best on youtube.
LET'S FUCKING GO! I love TES lore, and despite the prominence of them in Skyrim I often feel the dragons get overlooked. Alduin is seriously fascinating and one of my favorite characters, so I'm very excited to see what you have to say Drew!
If only Skyrim used these story elements in it's main quest...
I feel like I can never get to these fast enough!! Love the content and your solo journey. Makes my miserable life better. Thanks for all the hard work and dedication your put in to all that you do!
What if the Thalmor "succeed" and discover Lorkhan's greatest trick? That there never was a "before" before mundus.
That it was always an endless series of kalpas going on for eternity. And so their efforts to liberate themselves from this mortal coil merely ushers in a new one.
Drewmora my love ❤️❤️ best channel on the platform
Thank you Prof. Drew! 🤗
Im glad some one said that ive thought that all along 👏
Always love your philosophical takes!
5:33 I would argue that Lorkhan loses the battle, but wins the war.
His creation continued and His will is always carried out.
7:41 But as you said in the Monkey-Priest video, Maruhk cleansed the Elven taint from Akatosh with the Dance of Towers. In doing so, he created a purely "Human" Akatosh. Since Gods exist throughout time as a constant, when the Elven/Human Akatosh was made just Human, he was made such throuought all time retroactively, meaning that he would have been the Pure Human Akatosh before Allesia made him into the Elven/Human composite, which was later undone by Maruhk. Its cyclical causality.
Well, I think that's what makes him insane. Akatosh never existed before the 1st Era, yet because he's a Time God, he retroactively has a presence in the Dawn Era, even if he technically/originally had no part in it.
So Auriel is now, once again, Purely Elf with little connection to Akatosh outside of the title "Time God", and same goes for Akatosh the, "human" God of Time.
As for the Lorkhan bit, I'd argue its a never-ending War of Man and Mer. The first major War in the Dawn Era was "won" by Auriel but in truth that was just "Part 1", kinda like how WW1 and WW2 are seen as different wars, but many argue WW2 really is just a continuation of WW1 but they just shifted some major "players" between the "break time".
I see it like how in some games, when the first half of a match is done, but the game decides to switch some players across teams to balance it out, if that makes sense. Some say that's the reality of both World Wars, and I'd say the same is between Lorkhan and Auriel. My homie Auriel is losing though, so we'll see what the Thalmor do, for better or worse for Elven-kind and the Dominion as a whole.
@@thalmoragent9344 But he did exist during the 1st Era and late Merethic Era, otherwise he couldn't have made the pact with Allesia, which was made before she invented the Elven/Human composite version of Akatosh.
@@Im-Not-a-Dog
Well from what I understand, and actually I think Fudgemuppet (Drew specifically) had also commented on this, but I thought the idea was;
She claimed it was Akatosh but it was likely Lorkhan (or Shezzar, I guess from her perspective) that did so, not Akatosh. The Ruby Necklace was made by a drop of Lorkhan's blood that landed into basically a crystal, and so it's arguably more so Lorkhan that visited her, but she wasn't gonna say that out loud otherwise her Elf buddies that aided her Rebellion wouldn't have felt too comfortable sticking with her Empire.
Thus Akatosh was born as a result. Then later, Maruhk's Selective channeled the Aurbis through the tower and made it so Akatosh would no longer have connection with Auriel.
Very interesting perspective. Love listening to your videos. Great work
I love your writing. :) Thanks for sharing it with us.
Amazing video as always! I need to catch up on all the new videos, I’ve been slacking
Just found out that you went solo. You were honestly always my favourite and now I she a bunch of new videos to fall asleep to. Definitely gonna subscribe.
I am not buying all this nonsense about dragons and Akatosh, and Alduion being the fragment of a god. I think that dragons are just terrible beasts who came from some ancient continent and then dominated weaker races and created a cult about themselves.
The Dragons on their own, sure... but Alduin himself is definitely one of the interpreted aspects of the Time God 😅
could be a combination of both
So keen for a new video. Subbed last week and smashed out all your videos. You and fudge have such an iconic style of narration.
I love to hear that buttery voice talking Elder Scrolls lore!
Fantastic job on the video, Drew. You've really managed to put things in such a way that people will be able to pick it up easily. :D
I'm glad you continued to make videos! You were always my favorite narrator and scriptwriter. I don't usually have a ton to say but I'll try and at least comment for the algorithm bc you deserve it ♥️
I love coming in from the pub and finding a new lore vid from Drew before I crash. Stellar shit as ever, dude.
Here we go, all!
Drew about to give us one more masterpiece!
Why did I miss so much of Alduin's story when I played Skyrim? Was I too distracted diving into falmer caves? Or maybe I was too focused on racing through the main story?
I really wish I knew more about Alduin when I killed him. It would have been way more inspiring knowing he was a dwindling avatar of destruction. I knew he was 'supposed' to be apocalyptic, but I never understood why he seemed so pathetic. It just seemed like bad writing to me, not some tragic consequence of slothfulness and arrogance.
That's what I love about Alduin.
First his desire to dominate is innate for all dragons - and he is the most powerful one. He's not evil by choice, but by definition.
Secondly it was his goddamn Main quest to eat the world.
This whole new Kalpa stuff seems to have some relevance in this universe, no? :D
What I’m appreciating most about these videos is that sometimes I’m hit by ideas I never would have had on my own. I love this connection between Auriel and Alduin’s purpose. Keep up the good work 💪
maaan ive missed this long form- lore speculation video that FM was gravitating away from. loving all the content ma dude. keep it coming!
I now firmly believed that Alduin did nothing wrong... (alongside Zamasu too!)
Zamasu went a bit off though. To achieve perfection in the multiverse, no Mortals is a cheap way to do so
@@thalmoragent9344 I am aware of that. It was a bit of a Teamfourstar reference.
@@firedbones11realvids
Ah, I see 😅 man, TeamFourStar really was a helluva group
0:35 In case anyone was wondering the word he uses here is 'verdure', which means 'lush green vegetation' and indicates the 'freshness' of plant life.
Thanks , Loved One
If domination and power are key parts of dragons would it stand to reason akatosh is not this benevolent dragon but is the ultimate dominator
I love you and all your videos Drewmora they help me fall asleep and sleep really well too your voice and narrating style is very soothing
Thanks for this amazing Content, Drew! I've been saying for so long that Auriel and Akatosh are far more different than most fans admit. They're not fundamentally the same as so many fight to claim. The difference isn't nearly in name, but their very beliefs and actions.
It makes sense that the Nords see the Time God as the Destroyer, as opposed to the Liberator the Elves do. And Vice Versa
A never ending cycle of death and destruction. Auriel and the Elves wants to end the scheme of Lorkhan, but Lorkhan always finds a way to bring about Chaos every Kalpa, leading to an unending battle of Light and Dark, Creation and Destruction. The Redguards try and walk-about it and avoid Lorkhan's realm of 'Dead World skins', the Thalmor wish to aid Auriel by truly sundering the very foundations of the Mundus, etc
The forces of Anu fight for Freedom from the Kalpa of the Mundus, the forces of Padomay wish to preserve it, and so it's inevitable the two clash... over and over. Man V Mer, 2 Natures of the Aurbis ever tumultuous.
Perhaps Lorkhan upended the balance since Aetherius and Oblivion are perfect opposites, but yet the Mundus has been titled "the House of Sithis" for a reason, tilting the scales closer to darkness.
May Auriel bless you
@@ondolemarthejusticiar
And you, my fellow Justiciar. May the Dominion achieve victory in its endeavors.
That said, the true Monarchy must be restored if the Thalmor are to honor Auriel dutifully. Once that's done, the Dominion can go under a banner that signifies the Royalty of Auriel and Unity of the now-fallen Trinimac
@@thalmoragent9344 I am proud to serve as a justiciar of our great dominion may all see the light someday
@@ondolemarthejusticiar
Indeed. May the light of Aetherius above and Auriel's written Mantra's bring you to true enlightenment brother.
To Light and Freedom for the Dominion! 🙏
@@Super50ldier
Yeah of course you would, anyone who willingly follows the Agent of Chaos only considers genocide as an option...which is why the Children of Lorkhan have committed more genocidal campaigns than any other race of Mer or Beast combined.
8:55 Alduin looks like he's having an apiculture with those arrows.
Omg I love your content. Keep it coming please.
God TES lore is so epic. Shame the games rarely convey that 😂
what you mean? everything in this video is IN the game. read the books in the game
@@Crovax "show don't tell". Much cooler to feel the impact of the lore through gameplay than read a book that contains lore that seems to contradict gameplay
How sure are we that Auri-El still wants to destroy Mundus? Perhaps he has changed his mind. Or perhaps he is shattered into multiple aspects that disagree, a mirror of Lorkhan having his heart ripped out, his body cleaved in twain and his power tapped and divided.
And maybe a combination of Auri-El and Lorkhan isn't as unstable as it may originally seem. After all, the interplay of Anu and Padomay created the third primordial, Nir, and the mixture of their blood gave rise to the Aedra.
So glad to see that you’re doing so well on this channel already buddy - I’m cheering for you 🎉
He's basically the cosmic janitor who got killed by a rat who also killed his siblings
On my first playthrough I went a whole year before turning in the Dragonstone. I knew some bad shit would happen if I gave it to that shady wizard. And sure enough, dragons. Now I just keep that and guard it myself, and the dragons stay in check. Checkmate.
Imagine the whole eat the world thing was literal
Alduin after eating mountin 5000 seeing 5001 would be like "oh boy my favorite another mountain"
Om nom nom
@@vaiyt
Sandvich make me strong!
A Dragonborn is Shor granting a mortal vessel the power of his enemy-self Auri-El; The power of dragon blood.
The part of Akatosh that is still Shor is taking the opportunity of his merged aspect to literally give humans the power of his enemy.
It does not matter that he is dead if he can wield his opponents own power but do it with greater cunning.
Also I believe the reason that Alduin seeks to conquer rather than consume is because he was corrupted by Shor as part of the merging. The ambition to conquer and rule is a human trait and one they recieved from Shor. Look at most of the noteable dragonborns: Miraak, Alessia, Talos, the line of human emperors: they all sought to control and rule, often through conquest; This desire infected Alduin and turned him from his course.
Always love the hear about Lorkhan vs Auriel, probably my favorite topic
Btw Drew, i'm hoping for some more Elden Ring content, i've loved your videos on that so far
Love your videos, haven't watched this yet but looked at the title and yes, he's a fundamental universal force. It'd be like if we got eaten up by the sun expanding but before it killed us we treated it like it was an evil villain. It's just from an extremely temporary human perspective to think Alduin was evil.
Watching this again and commenting for the glorious algorithm.
Alduin is the nords' step dragon daddy giving them some tough love. its a test to the mortals. cool. they grow stronger fending off the shor aspect
love it
This guy just doesn’t miss 🐐
Hey Drew!
Found my way to your new channel.. looking forward to your own new content.
Cheers!
So good could tell us the story of the first vampire lamae
Love that old fantasy reference, of dragons and eagles at odds, represented in The Elder Scrolls by Akatosh/Alduin and Kyne.
Alduin doesn't do what Alduin does FOR Alduin. Alduin does what Alduin does because _he is_ *Alduin* .
The ninth divine is all that matters Tiber will fix all problems.
I dont think Alduin was affected by the formation of Akatosh in the 8 divines. He was corrupted and banished long before the human rebellion in Cyrodiil. I see Alduin's utility is as a failsafe to prevent Daedra from conquering and controlling Nirn. He is to eat the world to save it and have it begin a new. But the worship of man corrupted him and caused the forsaking of his destiny. He probably was supposed to have 'eaten' the world when the 'good' Daedra caused a rift in Auriel's chosen children (Aldmer) and defeated the champion Trinimac. But Alduin himself was to far corrupted by his worship to act when he was supposed to. I disagree that Shor was combined with Auriel into Akatosh, but that Alduin was was combined with Auriel. Auriel representing the beginning of time in the Dawn, Alduin being the end of time as the World-eater, and Akatosh representing the overall flow of time on Nirn. The pictures of Akatosh having a human face isnt to remind nords of Shor but actually so the Nords don't throw a hissy fit in worshipping an elf face (the cosmopolitan and political reasons). Awesome video still!!!
What if Shor/Lorkhan bribed Alduin for the privilege to devour souls in Sovngarde and rule over Nords in exchange for not ending the world? But instead of making him stronger, Alduin became weaker due to him not doing his main purpose in the world. Then as he became weaker, series of events happened that lead to Alduin's banishment. So now Lorkhan is happy that his world is not going to end. But then hen Alduin once again emerged, Akatosh created the Last Dragonborn so that he can kill Alduin. And the reason why the Dragonborn can't absorb Alduin's soul is because he was absorbed back to Akatosh to be reset into the true world eater that he was meant to be.
In other words, Alduin knew the Last Dragonborn would destroy his corrupted aspect. Alduin will return with an army of elves to fight Shor and the humans who are waiting for the Convention.
Good video.
Don’t you see Ysgramor in sovngarde as a human so how’d he be a dragon but over than that great video everything else was very interesting
You're right he is a man in Sovngarde. But some of the early Nordic myths get quite... weird. There's a story of Wulfharth and the nords being turned into toddlers by Alduin. The Ysgramor dragon theory isn't canon, but it's interesting. The idea is that the 500 Companions travelled through time/space after destroying Lyg, sailing in a ship called the World-Eater's Wake. I'll talk more about it in a future vid! :)
Alduin did nothing wrong...EXCEPT LOSE.
So if Dovahkiin is an Altmer then they're the Archtraitor of Auriel and Men-lover
Not necessarily. One could argue that man handling Alduin back into his intended purposes by sending his soul back up to Auri-El, to return later, was the reason for the Dragonborn.
I play as an Altmer, and like to think of it as being the champion of Auri-El, reuniting fragments of the soul of Aka, to be later returned to the father.
A lot of things seem to make it make sense. One example: being led by "fate" to acquiring Auriel's weapons.
Great video Drew but I had a thought. Don't you only get to be dragonborn through Akatosh's blessing? So in a way isn't he signing off on the dragonborn coming along and stopping Alduin?
I would argue it's Shor's blessing, and the last dragonborn is a shezarrine
@@DrewmoraYT The Hero of Kvatch from Oblivion is also a Shezarrine.
15:13 before Zalos there were no plains in cyrodil at all. But we need centauers too just put in the games.
I heard a theory out there somewhere that the evil Alduin we see is like an aspect of Alduin’s real form. That we’re just killing a branch of his true power, one that happened to also take its own path and go mad with power
Never thought about ysgramoor being a dragon
so i JUST subscribed to fudgemuppet about a month ago, started binging videos and podcasts, finally get to new videos and bam no more drew. just when i started to really like your voice you go and leave me all alone. i felt more betrayed than azura 😩
My issue with this whole "dragon bad" thing is that "dragonBORN" is worse not only born of dragons having soul of a dragon...but then goes around and kills dragons "so quirky" and look at him he can steal their soul like that is beyuond fucked up. You can't even side with them
What is the connection between Alduin and the Alessean mythological origin of akatosh? Did the middle dawn dragonbreak create the dragons themselves? Because I believe Alduin shouldn't call his father akatosh if his original selve was Auriel.
For some reason UA-cam unsubscribed me to alot of channels but I'm back baby. Missed your uploads but I'll catch up
"The next world will have to take care of itself"
"The tinder of tyranny sparks the blaze of revolution"
Alduin eats the Kalpa not the world. This is also why the title of "the Last Dragonborn" might be a misnomer or at the very least incomplete
I love the elder scrolls lore
Sorry mom, the finals must wait, drew released a new vid
Crackpot theory:
Dragons are a subgroup of old Ehlnofey that retained their aedric power instead of procreating and becoming long lived mortals like the elves
I definitely like this sort of schizo interpretation of Akatosh and I think it satisfactorally answers a question brought up in an older Fudge Muppet video about whether the Amulet of Kings/Dragonborn is a gift of Akatosh or Lorkhan: it's both. It satisfies the idea that the Amulet of Kings is associated with a Shezzarine(Pelinal Whitestrake) and the dragon god Auri-el.
Alduin saved the Dragonborn from being murdered by the weak and corrupt Mede Empire. He's aces for doing that.
I hope that when Talos and the Numidium return in the 5th era the Numidium is going to resurrect Lorkhan or becomes lorkhan with something to do with his heart and the moons. I also hope when the Numidium returns so will the dwemner.
Oh my, so glad I found you again, Drew!
How do you fit Miraak into this? Or do you not consider him as favoured by Akatosh? He was "seemingly" made dragonborn to deal with Alduin originally..?
Drew, I love your content. It gives me a greater love for elder scrolls lore. Listening to you talk makes me want to boot up Morrowind.
is this like an alduin as the old world that dagon destroys thing? like alduin is the oppresion, dagon is the revolution?
What if i told you Dagoth Ur wasnt the bad guy?
-me trying to explain morrowind to a random person on the bus
Bethesda does a great job but they need to read Dune or something. I need THAT level of lore and writing in this universe.
when drew posts 😍
So as the word ends, it begins?
Shor's bones! Those cat folk should take less of that moonsugar I say! :D