Cheers, nice project. Two things, that immediately came to mind after watching: 1. You might want to have a look at the StealthChanger project to steal some ideas, like the brass bushings, they use with their dowel pins. 2. I would add a microswitch to the carriage, that can sense, if a hotend is present. That way you can react to a failed dock/undock maneuver and stop the carriage from picking up a hotend, while another one is still present.
Or you could even use a hall effect sensor in the tool carrier and magnets in the tool heads as a presence detect mechanism. So long as the hall effect sensor is triggered the machine can assume a tool is loaded into the carrier and it should undock before trying to retrieve another tool. This would be similarly cheap compared to a microswitch but also comes at the advantage of being easier to embed into the tool carrier since hall effect sensors are tiny.
Maybe use some heat-set inserts as your bushings. You can drill them out to the exact size you need for the pins to locate. They'd be easy to install and should be long-wearing.
You're a genius, man! This may become one of the most significant advances in home 3D printing in years. Even if a few parts have to be replaced with machined metal parts for optimum results, it'll still be dirt cheap compared to all the alternatives. So it'll make tool changing accessible to the masses.
Haven't done it myself but I think you can order metal parts either machined or done with metal 3D printing from online services like JLCPCB with just an STL file. That's not more difficult than getting the right size of screws. There will always be some parts you buy online.
@@EngineersGrow The vast majority of people interested in this project will want to order a complete kit. I'd assume that in a year or two you'll start a crowdfunding campaign to sell kits. And hopefully there will be so much interest that you can't produce those kits yourself anymore. So you'll order the parts from mass production 3D printing companies. At that point it's only the desire to keep price down that motivates keeping the number of metal parts low.
@@frankbauerful "The vast majority of people interested in this project will want to order a complete kit." ... Wow, the video is only 4 days old, but you already did market research among the viewers ? Impressive ...
I´ve always found it wasteful that toolchangers are swapping the entire print head instead of just the hotend. It´s nice to see that someone else had the same idea!
Mihai design also did a single extruder motor design. It's not a new concept but it is still very uncommon. I'm not sure if I'm sold on it yet. Most people probably will be. I bought a ton of extruders on clearance recently so I'm personally set. That's not repeatable though.
Suggestion: Put a metal sleeve in the 3d print the pins can go into. That way the wear is on the pins and sleeve. A short piece of pipe just big enough for the pin the easily but firmly slip into (chamfer corners of both the inside of the sleeve entrance and leading end of the pins slightly?) should help.
@@dtylerb In the past, I took some pop rivets and pushed the ping back through the hole before the rivet was 'activated'. That gives a pin and a sleeve that match in size and are typically aluminum. Just a thought.
Please make this available to all. I'm desperate for the ability to change nozzles and colors without spending a disgusting amount of money. This is the best option I've seen so far
This is VERY very innovative. You are pioneering the next generation of 3D printing DIY so keep up the good work! If you want to, I would HIGHLY recommend starting up a discord channel for this project so that you can get a community of innovators behind it because this is huge.
A tip to prevent hotends crashing, attach end stop switch near where the crash happens. Better yet, you could use an end stop switch to confirm that the hotend detached. If the switch doesn't turn off, stop extruder from moving and throw an error/ pause printing.
Awesome idea! Use a piece of spring steel on the dock to block the oozing and help keep the hotend primed. I have seen this on a couple of tool changers.
@@EngineersGrow While this method works on other toolchangers, it wont be as effective with yours as any pressure will simply push the filament up out of the hotend. You may need to look into a way to hold the filament in place when its docked. I can see oozing or nozzle pressure being a big issue with this type of system
Interesting, will need to keep this in mind. I would think that once the spring steel touches the nozzle it will not be able to push any more filament up.
@@EngineersGrow Why would it not push any filament up? You'll have pressure inside the heatblock which is what causes the ooze. that pressure will want to release somewhere, usually you have an extruder holding the filament, so the ooze comes out the nozzle, but in your case, you plan to block the nozzle so the pressure will want to release upwards which will push the filament up and out of the heatblock into the coldside/heatsink. Changers like the XL and the Stealthchanger block both the nozzle end and the filament end of the hotend which contains the pressure
This is incredible. This is something that makes me excited. Can’t wait to see future iterations; especially as you add sensors to do automatic calibrations, filament checks, and docking checks.
Very cool! Great job. As some people mentioned adding a metal sleeved dowel that the pins go into would prevent premature wear. Also a metal plate maybe where the bolt heads pull on the plastic when pulling the hot end off.
This is AWESOME! Truly shows whta 3dPrinting makes possible. Truly shows what happens when pattents and expesive manufacturing don't actively stop progress.
Impressive! I'm working on a toolchanger of my own, and the extruder problem is a big one. Speed is a huge potential benefit of this setup. The stepper is the heaviest part of most hotends, and attaching it to the x rail instead of the detachable tool (with the additional flex point of a tool mount, and further away from the x rail, exaggerating any flex in the system) should make it more capable of high acceleration. One recommendation - angle one of the filament drive gears so more pressure is put on the filament and less on the drive gears. My testing indicates that the gears cause a lot of resistance, meaning wasted stepper power and a bigger extruder motor. If you can switch to a smaller extruder stepper without speed loss, you'll be able to accelerate faster. Second recommendation: Go with a kinematic coupling. If you have a bimetal heatbreak with thermal paste, a 3010 fan will keep the v6 plenty cool, and long screws can be driven all the way to behind the v6 heatsink, touching the sides and holding everything more stiff. The kinematic coupling goes on a backplate. Stiffen the backplate with a pair of steel m3 screws. They do a lot. Each kinematic link can be made with a pair of slices of 3mm steel rod on the mount side and a small magnet wedged sideways in the tool. The magnet will sit between the rods and keep things stiff. Let the magnet sit low between them - it will hold things stiffer. You can hold the coupling together with a big magnet in the center, between the triangle of links. Definitely comment with any questions! Edit - my toolchanger maxed out around 100,000mm/s^2 accel, 600mm/s my last test. Toolchangers don't have to be slow!
Thank you! Wow, those are impressive speeds! Can you explain more what you mean by "angle one of the filament drive gears so more pressure is put on the filament and less on the drive gears"? My biggest concern with the kinematic coupling in this design was that it wouldn't hold the hotend for the sideways sliding motion due to the forces between the dock and extruder pins. This is why I went with the dowel pins for this first version. But this might not be an issue in some of the updates I'm thinking about.
@@EngineersGrow That's a good point on the sideways motion. What if you had a kinematic coupling *and* a pair of dowels to hold it straight? Kinematic coupling ensures precision, dowels help it line up right and keep it from sliding off sideways when mounting. It would be a pretty dramatic change though. The two drive gears are parallel in most setups. But when your extruder squeezes against the filament, it flexes, so the gears probably end up being crushed together more than they should while you're trying to squeeze the filament. This happens with the Sherpa mini as well, and many others. There's a mod for the Sherpa mini that angles the drive gear so the gears are further apart and the part that touches the filament is closer together.
Adding dowel pins to the kinematic coupling like you're suggesting probably can work. I might try that. Maybe it will be as simple as making sure the pins have some clearance designed in so that they don't interfere with the kinematic mount.
I’d like to recommend copper tubing to solve your problem with wear in the alignment pin holes. Just some thin tube, put it all the way through the part and either flare the ends or cut and bend them to keep them secured. I’d say flaring them so the ends are securing the tubing in place and can still be flush with the part would be your best option. This will drastically increase the wear resistance and allow a solid fit for a long time. Also, instead of screws with a flange it may be best to get studs or threaded bar stock, cut it to size, then use some thread locker to glue some T nuts on the end. My last recommendation that may not work would be to use something like a magnetic push latch to try and hold the hot end still. It may not be strong enough or the latch may require too much force to push but it’s simple and easier to integrate than a whole mechanical latching mechanism so maybe it’s worth a try. You really have an amazing thing here and it seems like it’s fairly close to the point of being to the point of an actual first iteration. I’m really interested to see where this goes.
Very promising. In metal work we use bushing to achieve different properties than the surrounding material. Maybe a bushing made from copper or brass will make the trick. They are harder and more wear resistant than plastic but give also a good natural grease to steel counterparts like the pin.
Excellent excellent work. I have been working on and off on a fila-changer where the extruder (is supposed to) pick up the filament from a row of bowden flament docks at the back (just the filament, the hotend isnt changed) which would work very similar to how you have made this. Your sucess gives me renewed hope and some more ideas that may help me make my idea work. I know not changing hotend would mean the printer would need to prime the nozzle each time a change happens, but my goal was to stay within a single el-cheapo mainboard that comes with 4 stepper drivers and one/two hotend ports. Also getting perfect nozzle alignment with a toolchanger/hotend change is a pita without complicated expensive solutions. Looking forward to more updates on your design.
Get PCB way to sponsor you, use them to get metal brackets fabbed of your design, sandwich the metal brackets maybe between the pickup hub so the holes don't wear out and are more robust, ditch magnets if possible. Copy someone else's pickup hub design. Your nailing the idea totally and the extruder design!! Chef's kiss!!on your extruder idea. keep at it your SO close! Love the idea and videos keep it coming man!
why not for the alignment holes, use drilled out heat inset nuts, that way the holes cannot be worn out and are more stable. and my other idea would be a little dropper for the parking so that the spring in there isnt nedded could also be more reliable but idk if it would work
the spring seems way way too strong yeah, and the source of the rate of damage from undocking. countersinking the holes would also help so the dowel does not have to jump to the right location at once instead of a spring I think you could have side magnets to align the retaining screws in either the locked or unlocked position, and then you just grab the hotend, move left, leave with it attached; and then put it back, move right, pull away without it
This is unbelievably cool stuff!! I can't wait to see how this project changes and improves over time. Hopefully there can be ways to make it lighter and more compact without sacrificing reliability!! Oh, and it might be a smart idea to make a presence detection system using a hall effect / reed or (as wilkeiner said) a micro switch to prevent the machine trying to load a new tool while one is already loaded. Other things you might want to consider would be adding brass inserts to anywhere where a metal pin locates a printed part and imparts a load on it. This will reduce the wear on the tool heads and prevent the side to side motion you've been seeing. While ABS is strong stuff, it's not completely immune to deformation and abrasion. In your case the toolheads suffer from both problems. You have the force applied by the locating pins when the tool carrier slides the toolheads across to dock them which will compress and deform the plastic over time, and you also have a degree of abrasion from the insertion and removal of metal pins into a plastic component combined with the spring pressure from the mechanism that docks the heads. I'm fairly certain this is where your excessive play in the toolhead that was printing the black filament has come from. Again though, this is a fantastic beginning to a much needed project, and hopefully it will be adopted, improved and made into a standard so we can finally have cheap, decent quality multi-colour prints that don't waste 10 metric gigatonnes of filament!
In addition to metal sleeves and detecting tool presence (there might be 3rd, I already forgot, sorry), how about: - improve tool stability by locking hotend plate to base plate with some kind of latch mechanism actuated by extruder opening arm? Locks hotend in place when moving away from the dock, but allows releasing the hotend to the dock. If possible, grabs hotend plate from the bottom? - reduce pin and hole wear by moving X to release location against dock spring, pulling bolt heads just out in Y direction, and moving X back to release spring tension before moving completely away in Y. This way dock spring does not work against pins and spring-loaded "snap" does not try to carve holes during release Prusa XL has also locking based on movement IIRC, maybe they have drawings or models released? Inspiration for parts that could work better :)
A simple latch mechanism would be great to use instead of magnets. Interesting idea about the dock spring. It's a pretty light spring, almost too light for this application. I don't expect much wear to occur, especially with metal inserts. However, I also don't like it because it takes up a lot of space in the X direction. So I'm actually thinking about maybe how to get rid of it in the future.
Great job!! I think there're 2 things you can do to improve longevity on the docking parts: 1.- Round off the top of the locating pins, this will reduce friction, and thus wear. 2.- Have you thougth of lining the female end of the extuder mount with brass tubbing? It's cheap and durable. This trick may also help on the latching plate, were you to cut it out of brass (any time metal meets plastic, plastic looses). Keep it up, I really want to see this through!
Thank you! I already rounded off the pins and didn't catch it in the final recording, since unfortunately it was too late. Planning to add metal bushings.
Ideas that came to mind from your wear issues: 1) Lining the female holes for the alignment pins with bushings, to give a hard-wearing surface 2) A slight re-think of the lock/unlock system - instead of torquing the hotend to the side each time to lock and unlock, perhaps have a sliding "locking plate" that grabs/releases the button screws? Actuate the plate using a mechanical toggle, like that used on latching pushbutton switches. That way it's unlocks when you run you go to pick up the hot end, but hitting the same mechanism a second time relocks it? Not as simple, but it would remove a lot of the stresses induced during the unlock procedure...
This is gosh darn brilliant! I now will be looking into this kind of mod! I want to try and make a multi material Printed in Place lock. The options are endless!
This is an innovative concept. I'm glad you put the video up. I would suggest: You are trying to make parts needing good precision with a poor quality or poorly tuned printer. Everything needs refined with fillets and chamfers which will improve stiffness. There is nothing retaining the pin in the driven filament gear and perhaps other pins. The washer head buttons used to retain the hot end cassettes have no locking method to retain adjustment. The area under these heads is small which will lead to wear in the mating part and loss of adjustment. Cudos for not using any set screws, the sign of amateurs.
Very cool project, enjoying watching your approach very much. So many design considerations for hardware and software. Impressive to see your endeavors. I love to watch folks work on difficult projects from start to finish. This type of enthusiasm and effort always leads to great improvements and offerings for the end users. Very impressive to watch how you make changes on the fly. Good stuff!
One thing you'll want to look into that the other tool changers have and yours doesn't is a kinematic mount. You should have all six degrees of freedom constrained (x,y,z translation and rotation). A kinematic mount lets you get away with less accuracy in your prints while still grabbing the hotend in exactly the same way every time.
I suggest to use one round hole and one slot to mate with the dowel pins for locating the hotend. This might be easier than having to meet the two round holes. The hole is now locating in XZ, while the slot is constraining the rotation.
Pretty sure others pointed that out but usin acorn nutes as bearing surfaces against 2 pins and a star pattern to make the hotend only able to locate at a single repeatable point on the extruder head. Also the release mechanisms doesn't need to be actuated by the hotend it can be a pin or a screw directly on the extruder head that pushed the locking bar that way the actuation doesn't load the locating surfaces.
You have a really good point about not loading the locating surfaces with the release mechanism! In the current design, most of the loading should go into the bracket secured to the printer frame. However, I have some ideas to make the loading localized to the extruder. I have concerns that the kinematic coupling might not work with the sideways sliding motion, but will probably look into it.
I think I also seen someone implement a wiper the covers the nozzle opening when docked. Will try to find that design once this single extruder design matures.
Being a designer of my own toolchanger as well, its a very nice concept and idea of a toolchanger. Appreciate the effort put into this design. Wouldnt this design requires u to have 2 umbillical at all times? 1 on the carriage and 1 on the toolhead?
This is one of the rare times where a recommended video is pure GOLD! Liked, subbed, hit and bell and all that, I would love to see where you take this!
@EngineersGrow you're very welcome! I've been wanting to try add a 2nd head to my Anet A8, I love this single extruder approach. Only having X axis movement it would need to be open on both sides, this would be quite a challenge but I mat try it down the line.
Sure makes sense to swap only the hotend. Could order some CNC machined parts from PCBWay or similar and still not get too expensive. Prototyping with plastic parts until you're happy with the design first of course. This is something I'd definitely like to tinker myself as well but don't have a spare corexy printer to do it with. I guess you could actually build a toolchanger for bedslinger too but waiting for z-axis to climb for the tools might not be that fun (unless it's corezx I guess) :)
bro you are a boss. im a newbie and i love learning all these new things. im an inventor. i have easily lost 40k dealing with china. now im going to do everything on my own. great video. you get a sub brother. keep it up. thank you. this is above my pay grade right now but sweet to see someone so innovative and creative. thats what my business is made from
Nice job putting in the work. I'd thought of this years back to simplify the parts list, but wasn't sure it would work, and didn't have the time to invest in trying it out. The other thing I'd thought of was having the gears dock with the extruder motor. It would mean a set of gears on each hot-end, but wouldn't have to catch the filament each time. Neat to know that the idea works though. I think you'll have to do something to lock the hot-end onto the extruder mount, otherwise you'll keep having play that will mess with offsets, but I could be wrong. Keep up the good work!
Thank you! Yeah, getting the gear teeth to align when picking up the hotend would probably be tricky without using encoders. The teeth on the filament gears don't need to align to each other, so it's more simple from that perspective.
It depends what you're trying to save money on. This design saves a bunch on hardware, but during operation it will have to clear lots more plastic to purge every time you switch plastics. So this might be cheaper to build but more expensive and slower to operate. Still beautiful design and quality work. Bravo 👏👏👏
Thank you. Can you elaborate on why the plastic would need to be purged when switching filaments? Maybe I'm missing something. The idea is that there will be minimum material waste because there is still a dedicated hotend for each filament.
The idea is great. I think long term you need to think about CNC machined parts to increase durability and reliability. ABS might not be the right material choice in my opinion. Thanks for your effort and sharing everything with the community
This is how a tool changer should be. Having an extruder motor for each toolhead is wasteful and not necessary. With a redesign of this to make it look better, and function better, this could be one of the best and affordable options out there.
genius work! genius idea! This is how thinking should work! Not accept the things you can buy, but think about how to make it even cheaper, and better! Beautiful! Even tho i am really confused by your totally bad 3d prints (party for your changer) :D they look so bad ... ^^ BUT as long as it works, all fine! I will follow this .... please keep it up! things i would improve: 1. small sensor that triggers IF an Toolhead is loaded (so to be sure if its even unloaded properly too) 2. Proper shaft / inserts so the slignment is perfect ( you can get this sooo cheap) 3. maybe sth to geht the z-height for each head properly...
I guess I'll be spending more money on another project now LOL! Jokes aside, this is such an ingenious design, top to bottom! Every design choice was brilliant and I loved the used of PTFE as a centering spring! I've been thinking about this idea of 1 extruder motor for 5 hotends for a long time and never had the time to tackle it. I think you'll also be interested in Mihai Designs' " pitstop " project which has a similar approach! Cheers
For the XY offset calibration, maybe a technique from pick and place machines can be borrowed. They pick up a part and then move it over a camera to figure out its exact offset and orientation to let it precisely place it, similar could be done with a camera and looking at the nozzle. Then for Z offset calibration a technique similar to CNC machines could be used, likely even using the same parts, where they have a physical probe pad that they touch off on that makes electrical contact with the tool. Another way would be to just use nozzle bed probing but that requires nozzle bed probing. All this could be bundled into a startup calibration routine where it picks up each toolhead in turn and measures their offsets.
Great ideas! It will be great to get to a point when all of the calibration is automated. I think I've seen some videos of people implementing some of these ideas.
what if you use a solonoid on the extruder assembly to push and detach the extruder from the magnets. you should alsu use 3 magnetic balls in a triangle and pins to allign and mount the hotend
That's orders of magnitude better idea than the enraged rabbit's, Prusa's, and Bambu's takes on the problem! Would love to see that come to life to a production grade level
Hello. Thank you. I think that price of multi extruders is ok. We can use different extruders for different materials (abs, soft tpu and wax). So you shouldn't dance with only 1 extruder. The main problems are changing mechanisms and reliability.
Was very interested to see this approach mentioned in Teaching Techs latest Video. I really like this concept to avoid a fair bit of the wasted hardware in most tool changer designs - and also the removal of the need to cut filaments to get them to correctly feed into the extruder. (As per the BigBrain3d Swapper3d). The additional cost and electronics involved in each nozzle having its own heater is balanced out by the benefit of being able to keep/preheat each hot end at an appropriate temperature to facilitate fast tool swaps. My biggest concern is whether the size and weight could be scaled down to a) allow really fast printing and b) allow room for at least 12 hot ends to be loaded - to really complex multi colour prints - such as ship models. To me the ultimate solution would have 2-4 fully independent print heads (with extruder motors) for parallel printing, with each print head able to colour swap using something like this engineers grow approach. Perhaps backed up by some type share across multiple printers, cheap AMS type multiplexer too for access to a larger library of filaments than it would be practical to have a dedicated hot end for each one. The solution would need to have a fair number of sensors in it, plus some type of auto calibration/alignment of the nozzle positions in 3 dimensions - perhaps with some sort of load cell arrangement in an alignment pin on the bed somewhere which could be checked at the start of each print, or maybe even after every tool change.
@@EngineersGrow Thanks - the small 1:1000 scale up to 11 colour ones take about 15 hrs to print, and the bigger 1:500's can take over 40hrs. I would estimate that a nozzle swapping approach such as yours could reduce the print time by up to 4 times, and also reduce most of the waste. Plus could open up the possibility of moving to a smaller nozzle size.
@@dwuk99 Do you have any models that only need 3-5 colors? Would you be interested in a collaboration? Your cruise ships seem like a great case study. Being able to switch between small nozzles for perimeters and large nozzles for infill is high on my list.
@ yes, happy to collaborate. I did downmix one of my models to 4 colours so that it would work on an AMS lite - p&O Azura on Makerworld. Mixing nozzle sizes in the same print is an interesting idea, perhaps using the 0.2mm nozzle for highly detailed parts like deck furniture, railings and text, with the bigger nozzle used for the rest. I think prusaslicer might support mixed nozzle sizes - will do some tests on the latest model I am working on - Cunard Queen Victoria 1:1000. I've had to remove some of the detailed parts that work ok at 1:500 scale - but could try re-introducing them with a smaller nozzle size just for the detailed parts to see how that affects overall print times. Mixing nozzle sizes would of course increase the total number of tools required further - but this could be partly mitigated by splitting the models into separate parts. Are you on teaching tech's patreon forum?- as there is a thread on there relating to your video that would be a fairly convenient place to post images of slicer tests.
I have reworked my latest Cruise ship model today to split out some of the more detailed parts for potential smaller nozzle printing, plus also down coloured it to 5 colours - I have done a post on the TT Patreon with some stats, plus have also put a summary few of them under my 'Cruise Ship Print' thread on the BambuLab Community Forum - but this is more BL 1Q25 new printer focussed than nozzle changer focussed. My findings so far though do bear out your suggestion that mixed nozzle capability may end up being more important in terms of print time savings vs the smaller than I expected savings you would get from tool changing vs colour multiplexing.
I'd love a tool changer to print supports out of different materials for better results e.g. PETG supports on a PLA model. But as you say the commercially available ones are prohibitively expensive. Great to see more innovation!
Love the idea! You could try to use a hall sensor to see if sucessfull pickup. Also you could use 2 moves like the prusa, 2 directions could be easier for the Integration:)
Great work, and very clever! Even if this proof of concept wore out quickly, it was still worthwhile for what you learned. If you can reduce the docking force required and improve the robustness and wear resistance of the interacting surfaces, the next iteration should work a lot better. Subscribed so I can follow along!
Nice design! When I saw your design with only one extruder for multiple toolheads I thought about MihaiDesigns Pitstop (2) toolhead. Maybe you could get some inspiration there. Amazing work!
This is an awesome project. It's an idea so simple, it's crazy that it hasn't been brought up more often (if at all - this is the first I've seen of this type of tool changer). One thing I'm thinking for the docking, could you add some sort of button (like an old endstop) that when triggered, confirms that the tool head is docked? And if not docked after tool changing command, home the printer and try again? At the very least, I think it would prevent potential damage from crashing the tool heads.
Good to see some alternative thinking - I think this might have legs. As I've mentioned before in YT comments, we need to standardise a tool change mount and this could be part of that. The mounts need to be based on a Maxwell kinematic couplings to ensure accuracy with a latch to secure. All doable with your concept. Would also be good to evolve the design for CNC as it would be much stiffer. Would be happy to chat/help if it's open source.
Thanks! I think keeping the hotend on the extruder while sliding sideways might be challenging with the kinematic mount. However, it might be less of an issue with future improvements to the extruder.
Great idea. For making it more reliable and cheaper I recommend David Malawey’s video or his shorts on “Borrow a Tolerance: Mindset for Designers”. He has some good ideas for functional 3d prints that get their reliability or durability from precise things like dowels, ball bearings, premade materials. I recommend watching his shorts (I never thought I’d recommend shorts) on it because they go over more relevant ideas than the longer video. The longer video can help with understanding the theory from an engineering pov.
I love this design. I would use this to print multi material shoes with different filaments durable and grippy for the outsole squishy fit the midsole and soft and comfortable for the body😮
To minimse wear on the holes the dowels go into, drill bushings might be useful? I'd bet tempted to try press fit bushings into some slightly bigger holes than what you currently have. Another thought might be to put some cones into the design for aligning hot end to the carriage.
I was already building a printer with the same toolchanger design ("brackets" on the hotends, unlocking extruder), when I saw your video. You were faster😄 I'll be using a servo-unlocked extruder based on Orbiter V2 gears, with a few different hotends (1x custom long hotend and 2-3x CHC Pro), in a Voron Trident-like printer. The overall cost, except for the enclosure panels, is about $1000. By the way, when a hotend is released, nothing prevents the filament from extruding/retracting a bit due to its tension, while the hotend is still hot. Do you somehow lock the filament when the hotend is not used?
I have been going down a different rabbit hole to make a tool changer for my core zy machine. Stumbled across this video and I like it. Your approach makes a lot of sense and sure would like to give it a go.
@@EngineersGrow We are working one it. Taking it one piece at a time to make my prototype. Started at the linear rail end and right now working on the docking stage! Love it so far.
Excellent innovation -- I really enjoy how this reuses the extruder. About the connection failure.. are you considering a kinematic coupling for your next iteration, like the E3D toolchanger uses?
Man! Thank you so much, I had a similar idea, because why do we need to have so many damn motors eh?! Your design is way more elegant than what I was thinking, but the concept of a grab extruder is the same. I had to no time to work on it, so thank for doing all the work and bring us into a more affordable future. Subbed.
I watched this on the side, not really paying attention, wondering why this any better than tap-changer and stuff like it are already out there. But doing tool changing with one extruder is really damn cool! Very cool project! Love to see this develop further!
This is so cool! Im actually working on tvis same idea. I got around the wobbling issue you did by having a 4 prong connection . At the sides of the v6 heat sink. One question dor how you se yours up though, because right now im trying to figure out a way too get around buying tool boards for wach toolhead. How did you connect your seperate hot ends to the mainboard?
Nice! I have a duet 2 board that supports up to 2 extruders. So I'm using the second heater for the hotend and the second stepper driver for a second independent z-axis.
I'm working on a design that uses pins and sintered bronze bushings as the interface between the toolhead and the x axis. My mounting idea was quite similar, but I have the steel alignment pins vertical, so I can mount a switch and use the same mounting system as a z probe. I didn't even consider the idea of reusing extruders though.
Maybe some sort of metal insert for the pins to slide into. Like a heat set insert drilled out to be smooth with a flanged opening. Genius idea. I look forward to seeing you progress. Great video. Keep up the good work.
Nice work! I would use a tool changer to print support with one of the hotends. I can just paint my parts if I needed more colours. Maybe you could install some cheap limit switches in the docks to check if a tool is docked or not. Maybe you could use bushing or bearings to slide your dowel pins in instead of sliding into the plastic part.
Thank you! Different material for support is more interesting to me as well then different colors. Great idea on the limit switches for the docked hotends. Yes, in the future will need to slide into metal and not plastic.
Great Design ! congrats, I agree with you toolchanger of commercial machines are abusively expensive ! I explored an other opensource toolchanger design in my GA3D project with a locking system,maybe it can give you some ideas
After you get the pins remedied, look into add a hall effect sensor to the toolhead and an extra magnet on the hotend. If docking fails, aka the sensor is still tripped then pause. It would prevent the crash.
Have you considered adding a thin metal plate to fix the problem? You can easily get a stainless steel plate the top of a broken hard drive. Alternatively you van also have a PCB made in the flat shape you need and it will be somewhat durable
Metal bushings press fit into your hotend brackets for locating the tool changer together will work with the metal pin design. Metal on metal movements should solve your durability and precision problems while keeping parts easily home-built. Everything will get a lot more rigid too.
@@EngineersGrow Cant wait to see V 2.0! If you need someone to demo it/torture test a future version, I'd love to help out and give some more feedback. I've been meaning to build a fully home-built clipper printer for a while now.
I'd definitely would like to take a look at the tool change design myself. It's possible regular ABS isn't good enough due to its poor wear resistance. I'd recommend trying CF PETG since it's open air. Personally, I'm more interested in the docking mechanism, as I'd probably would go out and buy multiple extruders and motors, mostly because nema17's aren't very expensive, especially for pancake steppers. that and direct drive would help with pressure advance and retracts on the intended printer.
OK here is my take: I have a couple of self sourced corexy printers (Called BugBU ) it is a good printer. I am currently printing all the parts in PLA . I remixed the mount to work with my printer. i also plan on some brass sleeves for the pins to avoid the wear that i suspect is the docking issue. I will let you know if i get it together if it works. once i get a proof of concept i will probably look to print the hotend and extruder in ASA or ABS. in the meantime, thanks.
@EngineersGrow we need a place to share. I had to add some clearance to the extruder to work with my BMG gears. Since I figure that I would not be the only one with that issue, if you are using the cline plastic BMG gears you are going to have to clearance the extruder 1mm.
Heatset inserts might work. 2 per pin, 1 at the entrace and 1 deeper in the hole, maybe set from 2 sides? Drill and ream out the threads after u set them, so the pins will be guided when going in and be stabilized at the tip and bottom while in use
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I think TeachingTech would love to work with you on this, especially for an SVO8 Tool Changer mod like he's already doing
As someone with an SV08 I really REALLY hope he sees this and impliments it! I love not having to use multiple extruders. Freaking BRILLIANT!
Yeah it could be more cheaper to use only one extruders
Ooo, yeah that'd be awesome!
What Ill say on this is that they use a different motion system. The sovol has a flying gantry while this has a fixed gantry.
@@WooHooSum I don't really see a problem with that other than it might make it a little bit more difficult
Cheers, nice project.
Two things, that immediately came to mind after watching:
1. You might want to have a look at the StealthChanger project to steal some ideas, like the brass bushings, they use with their dowel pins.
2. I would add a microswitch to the carriage, that can sense, if a hotend is present. That way you can react to a failed dock/undock maneuver and stop the carriage from picking up a hotend, while another one is still present.
Metal bushings for the pins was the first thing I thought watching this too.
I came here to say the exact same thing, combine your idea with the stealthchangers proven docking solution and you have a real winner.
Or you could even use a hall effect sensor in the tool carrier and magnets in the tool heads as a presence detect mechanism. So long as the hall effect sensor is triggered the machine can assume a tool is loaded into the carrier and it should undock before trying to retrieve another tool. This would be similarly cheap compared to a microswitch but also comes at the advantage of being easier to embed into the tool carrier since hall effect sensors are tiny.
Thank you! Will take a look. Adding a way to detect if a hotend is on or not is definitely on the list for future upgrades.
Maybe use some heat-set inserts as your bushings. You can drill them out to the exact size you need for the pins to locate. They'd be easy to install and should be long-wearing.
You're a genius, man! This may become one of the most significant advances in home 3D printing in years. Even if a few parts have to be replaced with machined metal parts for optimum results, it'll still be dirt cheap compared to all the alternatives. So it'll make tool changing accessible to the masses.
I agree that a few machined metal parts might be necessary. I'm hoping to find a way to get around machined metal parts for DIY setups.
Haven't done it myself but I think you can order metal parts either machined or done with metal 3D printing from online services like JLCPCB with just an STL file. That's not more difficult than getting the right size of screws. There will always be some parts you buy online.
@@EngineersGrow The vast majority of people interested in this project will want to order a complete kit. I'd assume that in a year or two you'll start a crowdfunding campaign to sell kits. And hopefully there will be so much interest that you can't produce those kits yourself anymore. So you'll order the parts from mass production 3D printing companies. At that point it's only the desire to keep price down that motivates keeping the number of metal parts low.
lol they already have this its called the stealtchanger for voron
@@frankbauerful "The vast majority of people interested in this project will want to order a complete kit." ... Wow, the video is only 4 days old, but you already did market research among the viewers ? Impressive ...
I´ve always found it wasteful that toolchangers are swapping the entire print head instead of just the hotend. It´s nice to see that someone else had the same idea!
Looking forward to see where the community takes this idea in the next couple of years.
Mihai design also did a single extruder motor design. It's not a new concept but it is still very uncommon. I'm not sure if I'm sold on it yet. Most people probably will be. I bought a ton of extruders on clearance recently so I'm personally set. That's not repeatable though.
this is why we love this hobby, and pioneer individual like you sir is why we shine as a community.
Yes, looking forward to see what the community does with this project.
Suggestion: Put a metal sleeve in the 3d print the pins can go into. That way the wear is on the pins and sleeve. A short piece of pipe just big enough for the pin the easily but firmly slip into (chamfer corners of both the inside of the sleeve entrance and leading end of the pins slightly?) should help.
yes, Borrow durability from metal!
You should be able to get bronze bushings designed to fit the pins since they are a standard size.
Came here to suggest the same.
@@dtylerb In the past, I took some pop rivets and pushed the ping back through the hole before the rivet was 'activated'. That gives a pin and a sleeve that match in size and are typically aluminum. Just a thought.
Thank you! I'll take a look at the pipe idea. I looked at bushings on McMaster Carr to match the pin size, but they were expensive per bushing.
This project needs to be picked up and run with! This is awesome! Tool changers should absolutely be cheap and wide spread!
Agree and that's the goal!
Please make this available to all. I'm desperate for the ability to change nozzles and colors without spending a disgusting amount of money. This is the best option I've seen so far
Watch the last 5 minutes. He tells you how to get the files.
I will have 3D models and a membership available in the future for others to try out.
This is VERY very innovative. You are pioneering the next generation of 3D printing DIY so keep up the good work! If you want to, I would HIGHLY recommend starting up a discord channel for this project so that you can get a community of innovators behind it because this is huge.
Thank you! I agree, it will take teamwork to make this project successful. Will be starting a membership community soon.
A tip to prevent hotends crashing, attach end stop switch near where the crash happens. Better yet, you could use an end stop switch to confirm that the hotend detached. If the switch doesn't turn off, stop extruder from moving and throw an error/ pause printing.
Great idea!
Awesome idea! Use a piece of spring steel on the dock to block the oozing and help keep the hotend primed. I have seen this on a couple of tool changers.
Thank you! That's on the to do list once I get the mechanism more reliable.
@@EngineersGrow While this method works on other toolchangers, it wont be as effective with yours as any pressure will simply push the filament up out of the hotend. You may need to look into a way to hold the filament in place when its docked. I can see oozing or nozzle pressure being a big issue with this type of system
Interesting, will need to keep this in mind. I would think that once the spring steel touches the nozzle it will not be able to push any more filament up.
@@EngineersGrow just watched Teaching Tech’s video on the Voron docks and they use a silicon pad to stop oozing.
@@EngineersGrow Why would it not push any filament up? You'll have pressure inside the heatblock which is what causes the ooze. that pressure will want to release somewhere, usually you have an extruder holding the filament, so the ooze comes out the nozzle, but in your case, you plan to block the nozzle so the pressure will want to release upwards which will push the filament up and out of the heatblock into the coldside/heatsink. Changers like the XL and the Stealthchanger block both the nozzle end and the filament end of the hotend which contains the pressure
This is incredible. This is something that makes me excited. Can’t wait to see future iterations; especially as you add sensors to do automatic calibrations, filament checks, and docking checks.
Looking forward to it as well.
Very cool! Great job.
As some people mentioned adding a metal sleeved dowel that the pins go into would prevent premature wear.
Also a metal plate maybe where the bolt heads pull on the plastic when pulling the hot end off.
Thank you. Yes, I'm hoping to find a metal keyhole thats available online so that I won't have to make a custom one.
This is AWESOME!
Truly shows whta 3dPrinting makes possible.
Truly shows what happens when pattents and expesive manufacturing don't actively stop progress.
Thank you! This is why I love 3D printing, designing machines is way faster.
Impressive! I'm working on a toolchanger of my own, and the extruder problem is a big one. Speed is a huge potential benefit of this setup. The stepper is the heaviest part of most hotends, and attaching it to the x rail instead of the detachable tool (with the additional flex point of a tool mount, and further away from the x rail, exaggerating any flex in the system) should make it more capable of high acceleration.
One recommendation - angle one of the filament drive gears so more pressure is put on the filament and less on the drive gears. My testing indicates that the gears cause a lot of resistance, meaning wasted stepper power and a bigger extruder motor. If you can switch to a smaller extruder stepper without speed loss, you'll be able to accelerate faster.
Second recommendation: Go with a kinematic coupling. If you have a bimetal heatbreak with thermal paste, a 3010 fan will keep the v6 plenty cool, and long screws can be driven all the way to behind the v6 heatsink, touching the sides and holding everything more stiff. The kinematic coupling goes on a backplate. Stiffen the backplate with a pair of steel m3 screws. They do a lot. Each kinematic link can be made with a pair of slices of 3mm steel rod on the mount side and a small magnet wedged sideways in the tool. The magnet will sit between the rods and keep things stiff. Let the magnet sit low between them - it will hold things stiffer. You can hold the coupling together with a big magnet in the center, between the triangle of links.
Definitely comment with any questions!
Edit - my toolchanger maxed out around 100,000mm/s^2 accel, 600mm/s my last test. Toolchangers don't have to be slow!
Thank you! Wow, those are impressive speeds!
Can you explain more what you mean by "angle one of the filament drive gears so more pressure is put on the filament and less on the drive gears"?
My biggest concern with the kinematic coupling in this design was that it wouldn't hold the hotend for the sideways sliding motion due to the forces between the dock and extruder pins. This is why I went with the dowel pins for this first version. But this might not be an issue in some of the updates I'm thinking about.
@@EngineersGrow That's a good point on the sideways motion. What if you had a kinematic coupling *and* a pair of dowels to hold it straight? Kinematic coupling ensures precision, dowels help it line up right and keep it from sliding off sideways when mounting. It would be a pretty dramatic change though.
The two drive gears are parallel in most setups. But when your extruder squeezes against the filament, it flexes, so the gears probably end up being crushed together more than they should while you're trying to squeeze the filament. This happens with the Sherpa mini as well, and many others. There's a mod for the Sherpa mini that angles the drive gear so the gears are further apart and the part that touches the filament is closer together.
Adding dowel pins to the kinematic coupling like you're suggesting probably can work. I might try that. Maybe it will be as simple as making sure the pins have some clearance designed in so that they don't interfere with the kinematic mount.
@@EngineersGrow hope it works out! Looking forward to an update!
I’d like to recommend copper tubing to solve your problem with wear in the alignment pin holes. Just some thin tube, put it all the way through the part and either flare the ends or cut and bend them to keep them secured. I’d say flaring them so the ends are securing the tubing in place and can still be flush with the part would be your best option. This will drastically increase the wear resistance and allow a solid fit for a long time. Also, instead of screws with a flange it may be best to get studs or threaded bar stock, cut it to size, then use some thread locker to glue some T nuts on the end. My last recommendation that may not work would be to use something like a magnetic push latch to try and hold the hot end still. It may not be strong enough or the latch may require too much force to push but it’s simple and easier to integrate than a whole mechanical latching mechanism so maybe it’s worth a try. You really have an amazing thing here and it seems like it’s fairly close to the point of being to the point of an actual first iteration. I’m really interested to see where this goes.
Lots of great points! Some sort of push latch that is simple and compact would be a great solution.
Wow another cool tool changer! Awesome. Thanks for sharing ❤
You're welcome!
Thats great, I can see this is going to the be a huge success.
Thank you, looking forward to see this project mature and grow.
its a beautiful idea, so much finesse. Cant wait to see this in future
Thank you.
Very promising. In metal work we use bushing to achieve different properties than the surrounding material. Maybe a bushing made from copper or brass will make the trick. They are harder and more wear resistant than plastic but give also a good natural grease to steel counterparts like the pin.
Great idea.
Excellent excellent work. I have been working on and off on a fila-changer where the extruder (is supposed to) pick up the filament from a row of bowden flament docks at the back (just the filament, the hotend isnt changed) which would work very similar to how you have made this. Your sucess gives me renewed hope and some more ideas that may help me make my idea work. I know not changing hotend would mean the printer would need to prime the nozzle each time a change happens, but my goal was to stay within a single el-cheapo mainboard that comes with 4 stepper drivers and one/two hotend ports. Also getting perfect nozzle alignment with a toolchanger/hotend change is a pita without complicated expensive solutions. Looking forward to more updates on your design.
Great to hear, hope you get your idea to work soon!
Wow that's really clever! And very well executed proof of concept!
Thank you!
This is a very good implementation, cutting the material waste and redundant extruders. And it's so DIY, love it.
Glad you like it!
Get PCB way to sponsor you, use them to get metal brackets fabbed of your design, sandwich the metal brackets maybe between the pickup hub so the holes don't wear out and are more robust, ditch magnets if possible. Copy someone else's pickup hub design. Your nailing the idea totally and the extruder design!! Chef's kiss!!on your extruder idea. keep at it your SO close! Love the idea and videos keep it coming man!
Thank you, will keep working on it!
Great effort! Congratulations
Thanks a lot!
This is an incredibly different approach! I am excited about the next version. Metal pins and bushings can help with alignments and positioning.
Thank you!
I REALLY hope Teaching Tech gets in contact with you. This on his SV08 project would be AMAZING
Sounds like that would be a cool project.
Thank you for developing that and sharing it with us
You're welcome!
why not for the alignment holes, use drilled out heat inset nuts, that way the holes cannot be worn out and are more stable. and my other idea would be a little dropper for the parking so that the spring in there isnt nedded could also be more reliable but idk if it would work
the spring seems way way too strong yeah, and the source of the rate of damage from undocking. countersinking the holes would also help so the dowel does not have to jump to the right location at once
instead of a spring I think you could have side magnets to align the retaining screws in either the locked or unlocked position, and then you just grab the hotend, move left, leave with it attached; and then put it back, move right, pull away without it
Agree, it will probably need to be a semi-custom solution. But inserts will definitely work.
amazing work, please don't stop
Thank you, planning to keep going!
This is unbelievably cool stuff!!
I can't wait to see how this project changes and improves over time. Hopefully there can be ways to make it lighter and more compact without sacrificing reliability!!
Oh, and it might be a smart idea to make a presence detection system using a hall effect / reed or (as wilkeiner said) a micro switch to prevent the machine trying to load a new tool while one is already loaded.
Other things you might want to consider would be adding brass inserts to anywhere where a metal pin locates a printed part and imparts a load on it. This will reduce the wear on the tool heads and prevent the side to side motion you've been seeing. While ABS is strong stuff, it's not completely immune to deformation and abrasion. In your case the toolheads suffer from both problems. You have the force applied by the locating pins when the tool carrier slides the toolheads across to dock them which will compress and deform the plastic over time, and you also have a degree of abrasion from the insertion and removal of metal pins into a plastic component combined with the spring pressure from the mechanism that docks the heads. I'm fairly certain this is where your excessive play in the toolhead that was printing the black filament has come from.
Again though, this is a fantastic beginning to a much needed project, and hopefully it will be adopted, improved and made into a standard so we can finally have cheap, decent quality multi-colour prints that don't waste 10 metric gigatonnes of filament!
Lots of great points! Thank you!
You are doing an excellent job. Thanks for inspiring us all
You're welcome!
In addition to metal sleeves and detecting tool presence (there might be 3rd, I already forgot, sorry), how about:
- improve tool stability by locking hotend plate to base plate with some kind of latch mechanism actuated by extruder opening arm? Locks hotend in place when moving away from the dock, but allows releasing the hotend to the dock. If possible, grabs hotend plate from the bottom?
- reduce pin and hole wear by moving X to release location against dock spring, pulling bolt heads just out in Y direction, and moving X back to release spring tension before moving completely away in Y. This way dock spring does not work against pins and spring-loaded "snap" does not try to carve holes during release
Prusa XL has also locking based on movement IIRC, maybe they have drawings or models released? Inspiration for parts that could work better :)
A simple latch mechanism would be great to use instead of magnets.
Interesting idea about the dock spring. It's a pretty light spring, almost too light for this application. I don't expect much wear to occur, especially with metal inserts. However, I also don't like it because it takes up a lot of space in the X direction. So I'm actually thinking about maybe how to get rid of it in the future.
Great job!! I think there're 2 things you can do to improve longevity on the docking parts:
1.- Round off the top of the locating pins, this will reduce friction, and thus wear.
2.- Have you thougth of lining the female end of the extuder mount with brass tubbing? It's cheap and durable. This trick may also help on the latching plate, were you to cut it out of brass (any time metal meets plastic, plastic looses).
Keep it up, I really want to see this through!
Thank you! I already rounded off the pins and didn't catch it in the final recording, since unfortunately it was too late. Planning to add metal bushings.
Ideas that came to mind from your wear issues:
1) Lining the female holes for the alignment pins with bushings, to give a hard-wearing surface
2) A slight re-think of the lock/unlock system - instead of torquing the hotend to the side each time to lock and unlock, perhaps have a sliding "locking plate" that grabs/releases the button screws? Actuate the plate using a mechanical toggle, like that used on latching pushbutton switches. That way it's unlocks when you run you go to pick up the hot end, but hitting the same mechanism a second time relocks it?
Not as simple, but it would remove a lot of the stresses induced during the unlock procedure...
Great points! Yeah, a toggle style mechanism would be pretty cool. I thought about it awhile back but it started getting complicated quickly.
This is gosh darn brilliant!
I now will be looking into this kind of mod!
I want to try and make a multi material Printed in Place lock. The options are endless!
Pretty cool. Hope you can make it soon!
This is an innovative concept. I'm glad you put the video up. I would suggest: You are trying to make parts needing good precision with a poor quality or poorly tuned printer. Everything needs refined with fillets and chamfers which will improve stiffness. There is nothing retaining the pin in the driven filament gear and perhaps other pins. The washer head buttons used to retain the hot end cassettes have no locking method to retain adjustment. The area under these heads is small which will lead to wear in the mating part and loss of adjustment. Cudos for not using any set screws, the sign of amateurs.
Thank you for all of these good points. Yes, lots of refinement work ahead.
Very cool project, enjoying watching your approach very much. So many design considerations for hardware and software. Impressive to see your endeavors. I love to watch folks work on difficult projects from start to finish. This type of enthusiasm and effort always leads to great improvements and offerings for the end users. Very impressive to watch how you make changes on the fly. Good stuff!
Thank you very much!
I am so glad that this works! I had this idea but I didn’t have the skills required. Prusa, hire this man!!!!😊
Don't be afraid to try! Many times the best ideas come after you're forced to learn skills you didn't have when you started.
Amazing, gotta love simple machines
Yes indeed.
Nice work. Good to see people still innovating.
Thank you.
One thing you'll want to look into that the other tool changers have and yours doesn't is a kinematic mount. You should have all six degrees of freedom constrained (x,y,z translation and rotation). A kinematic mount lets you get away with less accuracy in your prints while still grabbing the hotend in exactly the same way every time.
Good point. I'll be looking at whether a kinematic mount will work with this design.
I suggest to use one round hole and one slot to mate with the dowel pins for locating the hotend.
This might be easier than having to meet the two round holes.
The hole is now locating in XZ, while the slot is constraining the rotation.
Great idea! This is actually what I have right now, just didn't go into that.
Project of the year!!! 🤯🤯 Amazing!!
Thank you!
Pretty sure others pointed that out but usin acorn nutes as bearing surfaces against 2 pins and a star pattern to make the hotend only able to locate at a single repeatable point on the extruder head.
Also the release mechanisms doesn't need to be actuated by the hotend it can be a pin or a screw directly on the extruder head that pushed the locking bar that way the actuation doesn't load the locating surfaces.
You have a really good point about not loading the locating surfaces with the release mechanism!
In the current design, most of the loading should go into the bracket secured to the printer frame. However, I have some ideas to make the loading localized to the extruder.
I have concerns that the kinematic coupling might not work with the sideways sliding motion, but will probably look into it.
Very ingenious. I like the thought of sharing the extruder and not needing any purge or poop.
You’d probably still want some sort of priming of the hotend after each swap, since there will be a bit of ooze or retraction in the hotend.
@@Leclaron True - but maybe just a little "turd" instead of a proper "poop"
I think I also seen someone implement a wiper the covers the nozzle opening when docked. Will try to find that design once this single extruder design matures.
Being a designer of my own toolchanger as well, its a very nice concept and idea of a toolchanger. Appreciate the effort put into this design. Wouldnt this design requires u to have 2 umbillical at all times? 1 on the carriage and 1 on the toolhead?
Yes. The carriage has it own cables in addition to the cables on each of the hotends.
This is one of the rare times where a recommended video is pure GOLD!
Liked, subbed, hit and bell and all that, I would love to see where you take this!
Thank you and I appreciate your support!
@EngineersGrow you're very welcome!
I've been wanting to try add a 2nd head to my Anet A8, I love this single extruder approach.
Only having X axis movement it would need to be open on both sides, this would be quite a challenge but I mat try it down the line.
Sure makes sense to swap only the hotend. Could order some CNC machined parts from PCBWay or similar and still not get too expensive. Prototyping with plastic parts until you're happy with the design first of course.
This is something I'd definitely like to tinker myself as well but don't have a spare corexy printer to do it with. I guess you could actually build a toolchanger for bedslinger too but waiting for z-axis to climb for the tools might not be that fun (unless it's corezx I guess) :)
It' sure is nice that cnc machined parts are now more affordable.
bro you are a boss. im a newbie and i love learning all these new things. im an inventor. i have easily lost 40k dealing with china. now im going to do everything on my own. great video. you get a sub brother. keep it up. thank you. this is above my pay grade right now but sweet to see someone so innovative and creative. thats what my business is made from
Thank you, I appreciate that!
This looks like it's working really smoothly! Impressive af.
Thank you!
Nice job putting in the work. I'd thought of this years back to simplify the parts list, but wasn't sure it would work, and didn't have the time to invest in trying it out. The other thing I'd thought of was having the gears dock with the extruder motor. It would mean a set of gears on each hot-end, but wouldn't have to catch the filament each time. Neat to know that the idea works though. I think you'll have to do something to lock the hot-end onto the extruder mount, otherwise you'll keep having play that will mess with offsets, but I could be wrong. Keep up the good work!
Thank you! Yeah, getting the gear teeth to align when picking up the hotend would probably be tricky without using encoders. The teeth on the filament gears don't need to align to each other, so it's more simple from that perspective.
It depends what you're trying to save money on. This design saves a bunch on hardware, but during operation it will have to clear lots more plastic to purge every time you switch plastics. So this might be cheaper to build but more expensive and slower to operate. Still beautiful design and quality work.
Bravo 👏👏👏
Thank you. Can you elaborate on why the plastic would need to be purged when switching filaments? Maybe I'm missing something. The idea is that there will be minimum material waste because there is still a dedicated hotend for each filament.
This shouldn't have more waste that Prusa XL. Filament never leaves the hotend.
That was amazing. Can't wait for tool changer to be cheaper thanks to your innovation.
Thank you! Me too.
The idea is great. I think long term you need to think about CNC machined parts to increase durability and reliability. ABS might not be the right material choice in my opinion.
Thanks for your effort and sharing everything with the community
You're welcome. I agree metal parts might be needed. I'm still hoping to get around machined parts.
This is how a tool changer should be. Having an extruder motor for each toolhead is wasteful and not necessary. With a redesign of this to make it look better, and function better, this could be one of the best and affordable options out there.
Thank you!
Wow I’m going to modify one of my printers to do this!!! Awesome!!
Great, go for it!
genius work! genius idea! This is how thinking should work! Not accept the things you can buy, but think about how to make it even cheaper, and better! Beautiful! Even tho i am really confused by your totally bad 3d prints (party for your changer) :D they look so bad ... ^^ BUT as long as it works, all fine! I will follow this .... please keep it up!
things i would improve:
1. small sensor that triggers IF an Toolhead is loaded (so to be sure if its even unloaded properly too)
2. Proper shaft / inserts so the slignment is perfect ( you can get this sooo cheap)
3. maybe sth to geht the z-height for each head properly...
Great ideas! What is "sth"?
I guess I'll be spending more money on another project now LOL! Jokes aside, this is such an ingenious design, top to bottom! Every design choice was brilliant and I loved the used of PTFE as a centering spring! I've been thinking about this idea of 1 extruder motor for 5 hotends for a long time and never had the time to tackle it. I think you'll also be interested in Mihai Designs' " pitstop " project which has a similar approach! Cheers
haha. Thank you! Yes, I did look at it and it's a unique approach.
For the XY offset calibration, maybe a technique from pick and place machines can be borrowed. They pick up a part and then move it over a camera to figure out its exact offset and orientation to let it precisely place it, similar could be done with a camera and looking at the nozzle.
Then for Z offset calibration a technique similar to CNC machines could be used, likely even using the same parts, where they have a physical probe pad that they touch off on that makes electrical contact with the tool. Another way would be to just use nozzle bed probing but that requires nozzle bed probing.
All this could be bundled into a startup calibration routine where it picks up each toolhead in turn and measures their offsets.
Great ideas! It will be great to get to a point when all of the calibration is automated.
I think I've seen some videos of people implementing some of these ideas.
i would love to use this design on my own machine if im allowed. what a lovely design! good job
im pretty sure i can help you with the docking mechanism aswell as the attachment points to the extruder!
what if you use a solonoid on the extruder assembly to push and detach the extruder from the magnets. you should alsu use 3 magnetic balls in a triangle and pins to allign and mount the hotend
hell, you could use an electromagnet to mount the hotend to the extruder
That's orders of magnitude better idea than the enraged rabbit's, Prusa's, and Bambu's takes on the problem! Would love to see that come to life to a production grade level
Thank you! Looking forward to this concept going into production.
Hello.
Thank you.
I think that price of multi extruders is ok. We can use different extruders for different materials (abs, soft tpu and wax). So you shouldn't dance with only 1 extruder.
The main problems are changing mechanisms and reliability.
I do see your point about having an extruder for every hotend. I agree that reliability is the most important.
Was very interested to see this approach mentioned in Teaching Techs latest Video.
I really like this concept to avoid a fair bit of the wasted hardware in most tool changer designs - and also the removal of the need to cut filaments to get them to correctly feed into the extruder. (As per the BigBrain3d Swapper3d).
The additional cost and electronics involved in each nozzle having its own heater is balanced out by the benefit of being able to keep/preheat each hot end at an appropriate temperature to facilitate fast tool swaps.
My biggest concern is whether the size and weight could be scaled down to a) allow really fast printing and b) allow room for at least 12 hot ends to be loaded - to really complex multi colour prints - such as ship models.
To me the ultimate solution would have 2-4 fully independent print heads (with extruder motors) for parallel printing, with each print head able to colour swap using something like this engineers grow approach.
Perhaps backed up by some type share across multiple printers, cheap AMS type multiplexer too for access to a larger library of filaments than it would be practical to have a dedicated hot end for each one.
The solution would need to have a fair number of sensors in it, plus some type of auto calibration/alignment of the nozzle positions in 3 dimensions - perhaps with some sort of load cell arrangement in an alignment pin on the bed somewhere which could be checked at the start of each print, or maybe even after every tool change.
Very impressive 3D printed cruise fleet!
Faster printing speed will become the focus in the future.
@@EngineersGrow Thanks - the small 1:1000 scale up to 11 colour ones take about 15 hrs to print, and the bigger 1:500's can take over 40hrs. I would estimate that a nozzle swapping approach such as yours could reduce the print time by up to 4 times, and also reduce most of the waste. Plus could open up the possibility of moving to a smaller nozzle size.
@@dwuk99 Do you have any models that only need 3-5 colors?
Would you be interested in a collaboration?
Your cruise ships seem like a great case study.
Being able to switch between small nozzles for perimeters and large nozzles for infill is high on my list.
@ yes, happy to collaborate. I did downmix one of my models to 4 colours so that it would work on an AMS lite - p&O Azura on Makerworld.
Mixing nozzle sizes in the same print is an interesting idea, perhaps using the 0.2mm nozzle for highly detailed parts like deck furniture, railings and text, with the bigger nozzle used for the rest.
I think prusaslicer might support mixed nozzle sizes - will do some tests on the latest model I am working on - Cunard Queen Victoria 1:1000. I've had to remove some of the detailed parts that work ok at 1:500 scale - but could try re-introducing them with a smaller nozzle size just for the detailed parts to see how that affects overall print times.
Mixing nozzle sizes would of course increase the total number of tools required further - but this could be partly mitigated by splitting the models into separate parts.
Are you on teaching tech's patreon forum?- as there is a thread on there relating to your video that would be a fairly convenient place to post images of slicer tests.
I have reworked my latest Cruise ship model today to split out some of the more detailed parts for potential smaller nozzle printing, plus also down coloured it to 5 colours -
I have done a post on the TT Patreon with some stats, plus have also put a summary few of them under my 'Cruise Ship Print' thread on the BambuLab Community Forum - but this is more BL 1Q25 new printer focussed than nozzle changer focussed.
My findings so far though do bear out your suggestion that mixed nozzle capability may end up being more important in terms of print time savings vs the smaller than I expected savings you would get from tool changing vs colour multiplexing.
This is really cool! Well done! I hope this matures into something more efficient and consistent.
Thank you!
I'd love a tool changer to print supports out of different materials for better results e.g. PETG supports on a PLA model. But as you say the commercially available ones are prohibitively expensive. Great to see more innovation!
Great, thank you.
Love the idea! You could try to use a hall sensor to see if sucessfull pickup. Also you could use 2 moves like the prusa, 2 directions could be easier for the Integration:)
Great points! Thank you.
Great work, and very clever! Even if this proof of concept wore out quickly, it was still worthwhile for what you learned. If you can reduce the docking force required and improve the robustness and wear resistance of the interacting surfaces, the next iteration should work a lot better. Subscribed so I can follow along!
Thank you!
This is a fantastic project, I look forward to seeing it evolve :)
Thank you!
Nice design! When I saw your design with only one extruder for multiple toolheads I thought about MihaiDesigns Pitstop (2) toolhead. Maybe you could get some inspiration there. Amazing work!
Thank you! I haven't seen it yet so will check it out.
This is an awesome project. It's an idea so simple, it's crazy that it hasn't been brought up more often (if at all - this is the first I've seen of this type of tool changer).
One thing I'm thinking for the docking, could you add some sort of button (like an old endstop) that when triggered, confirms that the tool head is docked? And if not docked after tool changing command, home the printer and try again? At the very least, I think it would prevent potential damage from crashing the tool heads.
Great idea!
Good to see some alternative thinking - I think this might have legs. As I've mentioned before in YT comments, we need to standardise a tool change mount and this could be part of that. The mounts need to be based on a Maxwell kinematic couplings to ensure accuracy with a latch to secure. All doable with your concept. Would also be good to evolve the design for CNC as it would be much stiffer. Would be happy to chat/help if it's open source.
Thanks! I think keeping the hotend on the extruder while sliding sideways might be challenging with the kinematic mount. However, it might be less of an issue with future improvements to the extruder.
Great idea. For making it more reliable and cheaper I recommend David Malawey’s video or his shorts on “Borrow a Tolerance: Mindset for Designers”. He has some good ideas for functional 3d prints that get their reliability or durability from precise things like dowels, ball bearings, premade materials. I recommend watching his shorts (I never thought I’d recommend shorts) on it because they go over more relevant ideas than the longer video. The longer video can help with understanding the theory from an engineering pov.
Thank you for bringing up David's video. Lot's of amazing information in there!
I love this design. I would use this to print multi material shoes with different filaments durable and grippy for the outsole squishy fit the midsole and soft and comfortable for the body😮
Great, thank you for sharing what you would use it for!
To minimse wear on the holes the dowels go into, drill bushings might be useful? I'd bet tempted to try press fit bushings into some slightly bigger holes than what you currently have.
Another thought might be to put some cones into the design for aligning hot end to the carriage.
Good points!
wow what a cool diy mod! appreciate a lot! keep up the amazing work man
Thanks, will do!
I was already building a printer with the same toolchanger design ("brackets" on the hotends, unlocking extruder), when I saw your video. You were faster😄
I'll be using a servo-unlocked extruder based on Orbiter V2 gears, with a few different hotends (1x custom long hotend and 2-3x CHC Pro), in a Voron Trident-like printer. The overall cost, except for the enclosure panels, is about $1000.
By the way, when a hotend is released, nothing prevents the filament from extruding/retracting a bit due to its tension, while the hotend is still hot. Do you somehow lock the filament when the hotend is not used?
Nice!
Currently no. But in the future might add something.
I have been going down a different rabbit hole to make a tool changer for my core zy machine. Stumbled across this video and I like it. Your approach makes a lot of sense and sure would like to give it a go.
Nice, go for it!
@@EngineersGrow We are working one it. Taking it one piece at a time to make my prototype. Started at the linear rail end and right now working on the docking stage!
Love it so far.
I'm interested to see how this project continues to develop.
Excellent innovation -- I really enjoy how this reuses the extruder. About the connection failure.. are you considering a kinematic coupling for your next iteration, like the E3D toolchanger uses?
Thank you. I am considering a kinematic coupling, but will need to think it through. It might not work well with the sideways sliding motion.
Man! Thank you so much, I had a similar idea, because why do we need to have so many damn motors eh?! Your design is way more elegant than what I was thinking, but the concept of a grab extruder is the same. I had to no time to work on it, so thank for doing all the work and bring us into a more affordable future. Subbed.
You're welcome and thank you!
I watched this on the side, not really paying attention, wondering why this any better than tap-changer and stuff like it are already out there. But doing tool changing with one extruder is really damn cool! Very cool project! Love to see this develop further!
Thank you! Will do!
This is so cool! Im actually working on tvis same idea. I got around the wobbling issue you did by having a 4 prong connection . At the sides of the v6 heat sink. One question dor how you se yours up though, because right now im trying to figure out a way too get around buying tool boards for wach toolhead. How did you connect your seperate hot ends to the mainboard?
Nice! I have a duet 2 board that supports up to 2 extruders. So I'm using the second heater for the hotend and the second stepper driver for a second independent z-axis.
I'm working on a design that uses pins and sintered bronze bushings as the interface between the toolhead and the x axis. My mounting idea was quite similar, but I have the steel alignment pins vertical, so I can mount a switch and use the same mounting system as a z probe.
I didn't even consider the idea of reusing extruders though.
Interesting idea!
Maybe some sort of metal insert for the pins to slide into. Like a heat set insert drilled out to be smooth with a flanged opening.
Genius idea. I look forward to seeing you progress.
Great video. Keep up the good work.
Thank you! Planning to try that out.
Nice work! I would use a tool changer to print support with one of the hotends. I can just paint my parts if I needed more colours.
Maybe you could install some cheap limit switches in the docks to check if a tool is docked or not.
Maybe you could use bushing or bearings to slide your dowel pins in instead of sliding into the plastic part.
Thank you! Different material for support is more interesting to me as well then different colors.
Great idea on the limit switches for the docked hotends. Yes, in the future will need to slide into metal and not plastic.
Great Design ! congrats, I agree with you toolchanger of commercial machines are abusively expensive ! I explored an other opensource toolchanger design in my GA3D project with a locking system,maybe it can give you some ideas
Thank you! Which video was that?
@@EngineersGrow ua-cam.com/users/shortsgv8WrkaPfTo?feature=share
After you get the pins remedied, look into add a hall effect sensor to the toolhead and an extra magnet on the hotend. If docking fails, aka the sensor is still tripped then pause. It would prevent the crash.
Great idea!
Wow... this is awesome!!! I love the design!
Glad you like it!
Such a cool design! Maybe a PCB way metal part is in your future for the docking piece.
Thank you! It's nice to have options where we can order custom parts.
Have you considered adding a thin metal plate to fix the problem?
You can easily get a stainless steel plate the top of a broken hard drive.
Alternatively you van also have a PCB made in the flat shape you need and it will be somewhat durable
Which problem are you referring to?
Great work. Love it.
Thank you.
Metal bushings press fit into your hotend brackets for locating the tool changer together will work with the metal pin design. Metal on metal movements should solve your durability and precision problems while keeping parts easily home-built. Everything will get a lot more rigid too.
Great idea! I will be trying that out.
@@EngineersGrow Cant wait to see V 2.0! If you need someone to demo it/torture test a future version, I'd love to help out and give some more feedback. I've been meaning to build a fully home-built clipper printer for a while now.
Sounds good! Remind me once I release the next video with the updated version.
What you need is a toolhead sensor. Printer not being aware if the tool is on or not is a big no-no.
Great point!
I'd definitely would like to take a look at the tool change design myself. It's possible regular ABS isn't good enough due to its poor wear resistance. I'd recommend trying CF PETG since it's open air.
Personally, I'm more interested in the docking mechanism, as I'd probably would go out and buy multiple extruders and motors, mostly because nema17's aren't very expensive, especially for pancake steppers. that and direct drive would help with pressure advance and retracts on the intended printer.
Agree, ABS for wear is not the way to go.
this is just so awesome
Thank you.
OK here is my take: I have a couple of self sourced corexy printers (Called BugBU ) it is a good printer. I am currently printing all the parts in PLA . I remixed the mount to work with my printer. i also plan on some brass sleeves for the pins to avoid the wear that i suspect is the docking issue. I will let you know if i get it together if it works. once i get a proof of concept i will probably look to print the hotend and extruder in ASA or ABS. in the meantime, thanks.
Awesome! Looking forward to it!
@EngineersGrow we need a place to share. I had to add some clearance to the extruder to work with my BMG gears. Since I figure that I would not be the only one with that issue, if you are using the cline plastic BMG gears you are going to have to clearance the extruder 1mm.
Heatset inserts might work. 2 per pin, 1 at the entrace and 1 deeper in the hole, maybe set from 2 sides? Drill and ream out the threads after u set them, so the pins will be guided when going in and be stabilized at the tip and bottom while in use
Great idea about using two inserts in a row!
Thats pretty clever, i think you're onto a winning idea here.
Thank you! Looking forward to see where the community takes this idea in the next few years.