Why Is Slick EQ M In My Monitor FX Chain?
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Some of you have asked about the Slick EQ M I have loaded (but usually disabled) in my monitoring chain, so here's why.
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maybe you showed the params for the eq on screen, but since I can't see, do you use any specific preset with the eq or any specific parameters, or just throw it on at its default preset? I don't really understand how one could replicate your method.
Apologies. First of all it's Slick EQ "M", the mastering version, not Slick EQ or Slick EQ GE. I advised them to choose a different name but they ignored me!
There's an extra 'special' band in the middle with three different options via a menu: Brightness, Hardness or EL Curve. Choose EL (equal loudness) Curve, and turn the knob below it down a bit. My setting is -2dB, but go with whatever feels right with however much attenuation you're using. Hope that clarifies things.
(I leave the other six normal EQ bands flat.)
@@DanWorrall Thank you so much for replying and clarifying! 🙏
I'll definitely give this a try, because it sounds very useful. I have a bad habit of having my output level very loud while mixing.
Sweet workflow hack. If I ever start making music again instead of just watching videos about it I'll be sure to adopt this one!
LMAO the struggle
I stopped watching the videos ages ago, I just read the comments now.
relatable
literally attacking me
Now a couple days from 2022, we have reaction videos to the comments in videos about people watching videos about people making music.
"this is a strategy for pros"
*sound of dreams shattering on the hard surface of reality*
At least you can still be a poet with that wording.
@@hiiambarney4489 and you, at least you can still be a comedian!
Never give up, friend. You will get there. And WHEN you do- Not IF, but WHEN you do, the feeling of satisfaction and euphoria will be the most incredible thing you've ever experienced.
The moment when a hard concept clicks, and it just makes sense, is a cascading effect. It will make it easier to understand even harder, related concepts.
I have no doubt that you will achieve pro level. Just don't give up or allow yourself to become discouraged. Being "pro" also doesn't mean you will know everything there is to know.
I have to say, this is one of the most interesting audio engineering channels here on youtube; truly excellent stuff!
I only use a control-room EQ to notch out some problematic standing wave in my room, but never considered using it to compensate for quiet monitoring. Very interesting idea, definitely going to try this!
This is a fantastic idea, thank you for being so generous with your expertise. I love how your channel is evidence-based, a true cut above most UA-cam mixing personalities.
I didn't even realize that Reaper had a Monitor FX track, this definitely makes Sonarworks Reference 4 more intergrated into the DAW without having to make a template with reference 4 on the master bus and having to disable it when rendering tracks!
@Dawaishi Moves having the possibility of running different instances or settings of Sonarworks depending on the output that is send volume (like one correction on the open back HP, an other in the closed back HP, one for the main monitors, etc.) would be genius! Idk, maybe if we got some software where you can directly drop vst on each separate outputs, like some sort of audio interface's softwares, that could fix the problem. Still, it would be quite cpu intensive i guess.
@@gabsauvage you can do that, with sonarworks systemwide - I basically use it as a monitor controller at this point
Reaper also has actions for enabling/disabling the monitoring FX, so you can map a hotkey to turn them on off. I find this handy so I don't have to mouse up to the button, or keep the FX list window open to enable/disable stuff. I also like to enable/disable all of them at once, as i have some room correction EQ across multiple plugins.
Great technique, thanks for sharing! One clarification, though: if you set Slick EQ’s output to -8dB, to what level would you correspondingly set the EL filter? I’m trying to understand what the relationship should be to achieve the right curve at lower monitoring levels.
It's a good question! You would think that you'd turn the EL gain down by the same amount you're dropping the output gain, but that's obviously not right. I just judged it by ear: I listened to a mix loud, then again quiet, and adjusted the EQ gain till kick / cymbals / vocals felt about the same to me.
I would do it by ear as well, afaik its still not 100% clear how our perception of frequencys changes with loudness, at least the famous fletcher-munson curve isnt up to date anymore.
But great tip with slick eqs special curve. Wonder what they modeled it after…
i‘m still waiting for a plugin or even hardware that solves this automatically, so the perceived frequency response is flat for every loudness i set. would be a dream! :D
@@Zerbasst hey, at the time i was researching this issue hard, it kind of seemed there's a concensus on the subject that goes as follows> the non-linearity of the curves and their inherently subjective nature, prohibit any sort of automating of the sort we would love(ie an automatic way to objectively fix the curve for specific attenuations). Reason for this is apparently that [in terms of hard numbers] you and i and dan and every single other person although we share the same tendency for the curve, we don't seem to have the exact same curve. so apparrently the safest way to do it is to work with the curve and your ears and find your personal sweet spots..... audio man.... gotz ta love it :D
@@MrIliasboufidis i see. Yeah maybe i should read further into this :)
thanks for the insight!
and yeah, lovin it to tha fullest! :p
I would set it with a very well known piece of music as a reference though, rather than something I was working on.
Hey everyone! Made a preset for Pro-Q3 based on Dan’s settings here…let me know if anyone would be interested in downloading it! Thanks for the great content Dan!
I’d like it
Please share if you don’t mind!
I’m interested.
Hi Dan, I enjoyed you past videos comparing EQ tools from Reaper and Cubase to solutions like FabFilter. It's interesting to test how the results might vary or where their strengths lie. I believe that EQs can be programmed to sound very different, but I'd be curious to hear your tests over things like delays or echo tools that we often use to thicken guitars or vocals. I use Logic Pro X and I'm guessing that the biggest difference with their delay and something like SoundToys Echoboy is simply the GUI and how it's directing you to utilize it's parameters. Might be an interesting video for the future.
Super smart trick.
Always learn something new AND useful on Mr. Worrall's vidies
I wonder how the Fletcher-Munson curve applies to listening on headphones?
yes it is applied to your ear not to the gear
It will be more accurate as you have no masking etc from your room
This is actually an amazing tip, especially for home studios actually. You can't mix loudly most of the time, many people are forced to stick to headphones for 90% of their mix (never finalise/master on headphones, always double check with speakers when you get the chance) and even if the neighbours don't mind mixing loudly will lead you to hear more of your room instead of your actual music. The headphones especially are a massive problem, not necessarily because of their inacuracies, most people know not to fully trust them and decent modern headphones can reproduce bass ok. It's actually the fact that many producers are using them as tiny speakers strapped to their head, blasting them at effectively rocket launcher amplitudes and then wondering why they hear that grounding error they thought was their power supply even when they leave the studio.
Alternatively you could probably EQ counter to their frequency response, but I've noticed that going completely against the capabilities of headphones can cause issues, so try it out and see if it's muffled or not for yours. Otherwise this, plus a limiter to keep levels consistent when you lose focus will keep your ears safe. Just keep checking that the limiter isn't peaking and ruining your mix and you're golden, you might forget about it but I'd much rather lose 2 hours of work because I was a baboon rather than spend those 2 hours mixing at 18+ dB higher than I should, only to end up with a headache and a tiny bit of permanent damage, EVERY SINGLE DAY.
A good approach. I know at least one re-recording mixer that uses a level drop to mix loud action scenes. You‘ll likely believe how easy it is to overwhelm your hearing on film/TV mixes. I have the same problem from time to time in my dialog mixes. I‘ll give this trick with Slick EQ M a go.
RME TotalMix FX has eq with presets, dim, snapshots, layout presets built in for all tracks and monitoring ch.(speakers and/or headphones) and a mastering grade metering tool called DigiCheck. Slick as f@ck. Just like their hardware products.
So could you effectively do this inside of total mix ?
Them Changes as a bigband arrangement? Uh!
Really good video.
I also mix at much quieter levels then the recommended 85 dB.
It’s hard to imagine how fatigued my ears would become after just one hour mixing at 85 dB.
You have a very valid point with regards to reverb and delay, while mixing at lower levels.
Thank you for sharing your experience Dan.
I'm actually enquiring about "why does my mixes have shitty tonal balance, and way too much mids and sounds like demos".
Well, the fact that I monitor extremely low might be the reason, right ?
Wow, I was having a lot of extra work because I didn't know the function "Extensions --> Loudness" in Reaper. Even the scraps you leave behind are useful. Thank you!
Dan, please tell us how you got a role in The Dark Knight's vocal dubbing team! :^)
Very clever indeed. I'll be trying that myself... I do like to mix at a reasonably high level and find I'm only good for 6 hours... This might just extend that.
Awesome. Instant adopt.
In my OPINION, 95% of videos I've seen on this topic get it completely wrong about Fletcher-Munson; saying stuff like "your ears compress sound at high pressure levels" (???), or "high dB levels overhype bass" (???). So much bad advice out there. This video is the only one I've seen which applies thinking that I agree with, namely: the human ear has more accurate response at higher sound pressure levels / becomes less and less accurate as pressure levels are reduced. That the ears fatigue quicker at high dB (or hearing get damaged) is beside the point. If Fletcher-Munson is correct, then at 100dB human ears provide the flattest (read: most accurate) response.
"If it sounds good quietly, it will sound even better cranked up" is the single worst piece of advice I ever took on! Took me about 20 years of struggling with mastering to realize. A more solid thing to say would be "Get your tone work to sound good at high dB (assuming your monitoring/acoustics situation is on point) and that'll be far more important than anything else, including how it sounds quietly".
Tone work at quiet levels (60dB) potentially can kill all hope of translation, because the ear is simply not accurate at that level (that's before taking into account anything to do with acoustics or monitoring); it's like a blind man trying to paint / mix colors. That EL curve setting is good thinking: a good temporary workaround. Still no comparison to the real thing though.
Sorry for essay!😂😂😂 I had to get it out.
It's rare that I find anything that's this useful after doing this for some years now, but this is massively helpful... and, as I mix at notoriously low levels, and own SlickEQ M, so I'm more than familiar with it, I feel a slightly stupid for not having thought of this before. 8/
And as a bonus? The title of the video doesn't even contain the words "Trick" or "hack" in it!! XD
Thank you Dan. I noticed exactly that problem when mixing with quieter levels, what I do most of the time. I own the Tokyo Dawn EQ and didn't know about that function. I think that's a great solution. Have joy and be sound.
What is your monitoring hardware? I went with a Cranesong Avocet for a proper potentiometer as I found things like Big knob and Central Station wouldnt represent frequencies at lower volumes and wasn't detented.
Do you ever had think about to make Reaper Template for Tracking, Mixing and Mastering? I will buy this ;-)
I'm thinking about it now...
@@DanWorrall hhhhhha go quicker and i'll discard PT right away lol
Hey Dan, have you tried CanOpenerStudio from GoodHertz?
It's a type of headphone monitoring crossfeed plugin (a really good one in my opinion). But even if you don't use headphones for monitoring, you can turn the crossfeed off.
The thing that makes it even more special is that it has an equal loudness volume knob. Which can compensate the loudness curve as you went over, but it can do it with one slider. I super recommend checking it out if you haven't already :)
It also has less latency than that of Slick EQ M. Although I do still love it a lot for mastering.
goodhertz.co/canopener-studio/
Thanks, wasn't aware of that one, I'll give it a try...
Slate VSX is a far superior solution if you really want to go there 👍🏻👍🏻 great product
I love assigning all the sends to a single VCA. That’s a great idea!
Re: using SlickEQ, I use Logic and can use its text area below the Master to remind myself to adjust its output. Guess I’ll just have to replace my usual note “MAS-TER! MAS-TER!” That joke was getting old anyway. Thx, Dan!
It's like the old "loudness" button on record players (though we used to leave it on all the time 😀)
Hi Dan, I would love to hear what you think about other Variety of Sound (VOS) plugins, like the NastyVCS or Density mkIII, as he has recently updated most of his plugins to 64 bit.
Hey Dan! Could you make a tutorial for those who have Pro-Q?
Great tip. Thank you. I'll try this for sure (Cubase Pro 10).
Hi Dan, why do you use an output volume of -8 dB while only using -2 dB on the equal loudness curve?
Based on the Slick EQ M manual, EL Curve: One dB is roughly equivalent to the (spectral) effect a 2dB change in sound pressure level will produce.
Doesn't that mean you need a value of -4 db on the EL curve to mix at -8 dB of output?
he probably doesn't want to overdo it, just compensate a little bit
Sorry, I must have missed this question... Basically, 4dB just seems too much to me. I have a couple of hypotheses: I assume the equal loudness data is averaged over many people; I don't know to what degree it varies from person to person. And I assume that my brain already takes the overall loudness into account and attempts to compensate, so I'm just trying to help it along rather than take over completely. Probably best you experiment a little: choose how much attenuation you want for your quiet setting, then tweak the compensating EQ until the quiet version sounds most like the loud version to your ears. You may end up with a different setting to me, and that's fine if so.
That's a very useful feature of that plugin. I am aware of Fletcher Munson curves and for that reason, since I've been mixing quietly for as long as I can remember, I need to mix louder for corrective eq'ing due to the deviation in perceived loudness from mixing quieter. You're right about ear fatiguing, so I can only keep it loud for bursts of time, then turn it down. I guess, you're using it like the "Loud" button on consumer portable stereos for when people have the volume low. SEQ looks like a good safety net. I'll have to check this out.Thanks so much for sharing! Seriously.
Any other plugins you'd suggest for this task - JS or freeware? Thanks!
there is any way to get this curve with Pro-Q 3? a preset...?
Plugin Doctor might help matching those freq curve and then export it for Kirchhoff EQ 🤭
Great video
I can tell u mix from your ears more then just #z
Good stuff and just subscribed.
Nice
Really interesting approach. I've been aware of equal loudness contours for some time, but I never really thought about implementing them to reduce ear fatigue! Thanks for sharing
another step toward climbing out of the noob rut.
Hey Dan, how do you know which strength to set that EL curve to? I assume it would be have to be adjusted according to what level you’re listening at? So how would I know if it is an accurate representation or not
I just set it by ear. I toggled between loud and quiet, while focusing on elements that change the most: the weight of the kick, presence of the vocal, brightness of the cymbals; and I tweaked the EL setting till my perception of them seemed to match the best.
Can't wait to try this method on my mixes tomorrow. I always mix loud, because when I turn down the volume I make bad decisions. Thanks Dan, I fucking love your channel.
Hear here.... ;)
Dan, you just sold Slick EQ-M to me. lol
Thanks!
mvh
Great trick Dan, is a smart way to make your level mixing workflow works in all range
can we make a list of plugins that apply equal loudness compensation?
wish i could give it a Like again. so useful. thanks again! 👍
Truly , the masters are here in this UA-cam channels absolutely inspired by this method. The only channel where I dive deep . Keep giving wisdom. God bless.
Help me find my own way of approaching mastering in the box.
Fundamentally, this is a "loudness switch" that you would see on some older hi-fi gear...
Two overlapped secret messages in the left channel starting at 2:27!? :-) (or rather, just some junk recording that snuck in at -60dB)
This man's mixing will be crazy super awesome all the time
How much would it cost me if I ordered audio book from you... 😅
@Dawaishi Moves Here's your dollar! Now send me a book! XD
Nice, I missed it, hopefully I see it now...super great tip.
That was fantastic tip. I do something similar with tool to -8db but I never thought about EQ implications. Thank you a lot!
awesome tip!
also it's great a demo version can be used, because dialing in a preset manually takes just a second :)
I thought it was only me that when mixing 'quietly' I would end up with a too heavy bottom end... great vid, thanks Dan
also easy way is to use sound level meter set on C weight and slow response and never exceed around 80dB-ish in your mixing position and always have a few reference tracks to check your mix... and do not forget to create triangle position with your speakers which should be levelled with your ears to hear everything properly not mentioning some bass traps and absorption panels also speaker stands to separate them form and source like desk etc. as they create some unwanted frequencies, also use some full range speakers such as auratone or avantone or behritone... and mix in mono then check the stereo image; pure basics.... anyway love your videos the best youtube channel the most informative
Them Changes-Buddy Miles!
God tier.
2:36 i listen to someone in the backgroud? is it possible?
Wow. Perfect trick. It has instantly gone in to my default Cubase template.
Dan, you always deliver something unique and useful. I love learning about Reaper. I use another trick in Reaper (inspired by you!) to monitor preFX and post FX on the same track to gain match processing, using JS Channel Router 1/2 to 3/4 as the 1st plug, works great when using folders as busses as long as you're not having to sidechain directly from those tracks.
could you elaborate what you mean exactly if you don't mind? i use reaper too and very curious exactly what the trick is; i half follow haha
Excellent tip! I've found myself inside the same development over the past weeks especially: Being able to mix more or longer periods of time in a day at lower volume while also trying not to disturb the neighbour evenings/at night. This workaround with Slick EQ beats using the bass and treble adjustment on my monitors that I had been using recently. And setting the volume dip inside Slick EQ rather than in the "dim" position of Cubase is brilliant.
Love the Slick EQ output change trick. Certainly a must-try. 👍
Years ago I did a gig at a club where, in order to not sound ridiculous, the band I was in decided to play at a volume that was approaching the level of the music the DJ was playing in between sets i.e. stupidly loud. I couldn't tell the difference between neighbouring keys anymore. If the tune was in E, and I played in F, it made absolutely no audible difference to my ears. The hardest frequencies to hear, of course, were the bass frequencies.
Ouch. It should be legal to shoot DJs when they do that.
I can insert that EQ curve in the master section of my console if I want to.
Hi Dan, all your tutorials seems to give an upgrade in my Producer/Mixing Engineer career. For that I thank you man, you're the best. Do you have any paid and more depth Mixing Course so we can buy online and download it? It would be really helpful.
Thanks,
Phil
Hi Philip. Not at the moment I'm afraid. Maybe I'll get something organised one day...
@@DanWorrallOk, hoping to see it soon.
Dan Worrall PLEASE DO! I would love to buy your course.
This is where you should find any audio engineer, even the ones with proficious youtube channels
Brilliant, I often prefer to mix quieter for long periods, so this approach will help. I love using Reaper!
Super helpful thanks for that!
Brilliant!!!! Good Vids... quality is A+++!!!!
Thank you Dan, you've literally saved my ears.
Amazing trick. Thanks a lot!
does the free version offer this feature?
Amazing idea. I'm glad I found your channel!
This is the best trick I learned in years
Wow. This fixes so many issues it's ridiculous.
Great tip Dan. Thx for sharing!
Dan why do you mix into that EQ curve? Instead of mixing them adding/custom curve?
The EQ is not to correct the mix, and is never applied to the mix. It's to correct my hearing at low listening levels, and is only applied to the monitor path when I'm listening quietly.
It is an interesting trick.Thank you
Great video, with genuinely brilliant advice.
2:27
Left channel is weird.
DAN you're awesome.
Just in case you missed it...that Slick EQ is a FREE download (and they’ve got other really great stuff).
Thanks again Dan, always making me better !!!
Slick EQ is free. I used Slick EQ M though.
Ahaaaaa !! Either way, they sure make some great plugins. : ) Cheers
Yeah the free version does NOT feature this great loudness dial
Great tip, thank you
Bruv, thank you.
Truly great content, Dan, never stop creating!
Great tipp! But do I get it right that the loudness compensation only is active for the -2dB of the center wheel, but not for the -8dB of the output "calibration"? So it's just a "partly" compensation?
It's a good question. You would think I would need "8dB" of filtering to compensate 8dB of attenuation, but that just seemed way too extreme. Either its not intended to work like that, or the "full" compensation just seems too much because i expect to hear a different spectral balance at low levels. Whatever; I just experimented and went with the settings that work for me: you should do the same, and don't necessarily expect your ideal settings to be exactly the same as mine.
Thanks so much @@DanWorrall! Absolutely makes sense.
Creaking monitoring syndrom? Yeah, I agree, this is one of the most annoying "habits" plugins have. Just engaging it makes it louder 1 - 2 db. Et voila, more exciting. What a cheap trick.
this channel is so underrated its hilarious - Dan do you have a suggestion for an alternative plugin? Or is the Slick the only one you've run across?
It's the only one I know of, but you could probably dial in something close enough with any decent EQ plugin.
@@DanWorrall Thanks for the quick response dude - i just had an idea though. If you were up for bouncing me a sec of white noise through your curve and upload the before and after file, i could actually match the eq curve i think xD - only if u got the time though, i would like to try this ;D
OMG - Reaper-extensions - loudness?? I was playing tracks from start to finish through YouLean each time!
That was a fantastic tutorial! Thank you!!
You Should really make a serious about. "Mix strategies for beginners". Starting with "Don't fool yourself you are a beginner". I see way to many pro advice that fooled me for years. Like creeping volume syndrome. For me Calibrating to K14, was the needed salvation.
How do I find the right value for EL Curve when mixing quitely? -1, -2, -3, -4, it`s a solid difference in perception. Or should I make it -2 just like here?
I just judged it by ear. Doesn't have to be perfect: quiet will never be the same as loud, and you'll always need the loud checks. This trick just reduces the difference a bit, which I find helpful.
@@DanWorrall thanks, Dan!
I don't have Slick EQ M, but I do have Cubase 10's Frequency Plug in. Might this be used in the way Mr. Worrall demonstrates here? I'll have to experiment, but any thoughts on that are appreciated.
2bus->print track->monitoring. No need to remember to bypass any eq’s or sonarworks
I love your videos and the way you explain things. Lots of great tips and tricks. Thank you very much ♥
There is an interesting topic (at least for me) which I can't find much info on. I love 80s synthpop and compose music, heavily inspired by acts from the early 80s. I really wonder how did they create fantasy "landscapes" or scenery with reverbs? It seems to be a lost art. How do you go about creating the space like in A Victory Of Love by Alphaville, or All The Things You Said by Depeche Mode? It would be incredibly interesting if you have some knowledge to share about this.
Another interesting topic is panning by frequency, like some of the older Fleetwood Mac Records.
Cheers :)
This is a great idea!
I’ve had Slick EQ for a while, and didn’t even know this feature existed. Thanks for another genius hack.
Thank you again, Mr. Worrall. Every time - so clear and so helpful. I use TDR Slick EQ on most of my mixes/masters as well, but mostly to compare references after I've been sitting with the same material for so long and have lost objectivity. The EL curve is a nifty tool that I haven't been leveraging enough - especially since my studio is also my living space, and I can't always crank up the volume without getting evicted. Sometimes, the 2 AM mix needs to get to the client before 6 AM, and I need to have at least a decent sense of how it will transfer in different environments while making mixing decisions.