"Cheap" sport cars will continue declining as the middle class stop existing in America, is pretty simple and even doug said it without realizing "nobody has money to buy an impractical car, unless they have a ton of money for one"
Yeah it’s crazy. If you want to spend $70,000 or more on a sports car, there has never been more choice. If you want something under $50,000, there has never been less choice. The wealth divide is growing. It’s a big club and most people aren’t in it.
or it is the cheapest car on the market. A sporty looking but maybe 150 HP NA I4 manual sports car for 15k would sell like hotcakes as long as it was RWD and looked good.
@@fortheloveofnoise It’s likely impossible to make any car for $15k in the US now. Also, you literally described an ND.1 Miata which was still $26k at the time. You could pull cost out of an ND.1, but not $10k.
Maybe but kids don’t want sports cars anymore. Maybe they aren’t cool like they used to be. When I was 17 all I wanted was a Honda prelude. I’m pretty sure every kid now wants some type of truck/suv/jeep type thing. At least in America.
The EV Ferrari prototype is SO upsetting! I'm the one who got the sound clips, and the soundbar hidden behind the the rear bumper makes an interesting noise, but not even close to a regular combustion engine. Design-wise I can assure you it's not gonna look anywhere near this weird Grecale/Levante mix, they've been using Maserati chassis as test mules for years Anyway, you can find many clips of this and other upcoming Ferrari prototypes on my channel, feel free to use them for future episodes :)
Doug is right. That EV Ferrari is horrific, but most people buy the badge - as Porsche has proven. Ferrari - like BMW - will make more money selling crap cars to idiots. Porsche deliberately makes very few GT3s because they are for marketing, not profit. Having those being 'special' and more expensive on the used market is great for marketing. All of this means more people buy Macans - and that's where the profit is.
Doug, your podcast is so addicting! It has become a routine to watch it every week on Friday!! At the beginning, I didn’t quite like Kennan & Filippo but now they have become my Favorite Hosts alongside Doug. You guys deserve the best because you keep us entertained, every episode has it’s own charm!
There's 2 podcasts that come out on Fridays that i love watching, this (or should i say THIS!) and Chris Harris & Friends. And a lot of times they overlap with conversations about the most random things, which is kinda cool, having a bunch of 'busy kids' and a bunch of old dads talking about the same things.
Hah, yeah, i actually made that joke as well years ago when it also dawned on me how everything had to have "man" added to it. Still wondered why they didn't make the TVman, and i guess "Playman/Gameman" wasn't a smart move, between the GameBoy and Playboy.
37:00 about the discussion around diversification in brand line-ups. Brands are NOT your friend. They exist for one, and only one, thing: make money. There's no point getting angry about it. Look what people thought about the Cayenne when it came out and now Doug and Kennan agree they both would get a last gen Turbo
Yes exactly, I used to be like these guys on the podcast, when in truth, it's gonna be an awesome car, buyers will love them and they will make tons of money, that's all that matters :) That's why I have become so accepting of brand diversification, like, I really like Porsche and I love Lamborghini, am I gonna sit here and tell people that the Panamera, Cayenne, Macan and Urus are bad cars because they are not pure? No. They are awesome SUVs (and a Sedan). You know, variety IS the spice of life, and as long as they keep making the 911, Cayman, Temerario and Revuelto lines I'll be happy :), (Hell, this even aids them in making those cars)
@@Bmontepeque11 Yeah totally, i cannot afford any of the Lamborghinis, so how could i protest this, Lamborghini also needs the money to continue to make cool cars. When the Urus came out, i hated it, also because i already hated the soccer mom hype, and the only Lamborghinis i would ever see in my neighborhood was the Urus, which only made it more annoying. But, it basically saved the company, and to be honest, it looks alright for an SUV, at least when you see it you can believe that it was a Lambo, it still has the aggressive design and sound going on, but on a SUV. I still don't like the car, but i honestly don't love many cars anymore anyway, it all started (and ended) with the Countach and Diablo for me. And Doug is also right about the different car having a totally different plane of existence. Some people just want a sporty car, other people want the most expensive car of that sporty brand and the former wouldn't even recognize or acknowledge the other car's existence, because it simply is not on their radar or has any bearing on their day to day life, they simply don't care, and of course, there's also some jealous jerks. Plus, some people do care, but just want to own something that bears the brand name, even if it isn't a Countach. It's basically improved merch, something that might be affordable to a lot more "fans" out there, something more than a brand aftershave (Lamborghini aftershave ain't bad, hah), or a backpack etc., they know it is not a Countach, but they can still say that they drive a Lambo, they still sorta have a finger in the pie. Plus, without them, the brand might've been in a lot more trouble financially, so yeah...
It may be against the will for car enthusiasts but then it's very understandable that they have to make mundane products to make a profit. They can make as many practical crossovers as they can as long as they have enthusiast cars to sell and we're all good.
Still haven't seen a Nissan Z on the road or at any show or c&c. A local dealership has an unsold 2023 model on their floor room, next to 4 other 2024 models. All of them marked up, only two manuals. No nismos. And no one else here in the Northeast seems to have seen one either. I know this is full conspiracy territory but I really don't believe this vehicle is actually intended to be sold. This models' entire existence feels like a gift from Nissan to their dealerships as a free marketing/markup promotion with no intention of it being a revenue generator through sales. A blatant appeal to their sports car fans who have grown up and know they can't buy a sports car anymore. The demo with the young family who used to have a 350Z or their dad had a 300ZX: the demo that appreciates the Z exists as they go in to get their third Rogue in as many years. Certainly not aimed at the demo of younger buyers who might actually want a sports car.
Many could do this and afford a fun third weekend car with a family a few decades ago... not anymore, new car prices have gone up way too much, with everything else, and lagging income.
Could just be you are in a state that doesn't have a strong Z culture. Arizona Z culture is really strong and there are a lot of Nissan Zs out here. Still rarer than a supra mk5 tho.
Bottom line the new Z is just not that good of a car. My brother bought one new 2 years ago when they came out, and he sold it 6 months later. It's just not that special. Everything under it's skin is just the old outdated Z. I agree with Doug, Nissan of today is a disaster of a company. They are clueless, and it's a shame, as I used to be a big fan.
Doug, I have lost a home in a large forest fire. My family had 45 minutes to leave. The cars were the last thing anyone worried about. In the end my family was safe and that was most of it. They were homeless in a Subaru with a few handfuls of jewelry. People will rebuild and recover. As a side note I just bought a 2006 Cayenne Turbo a week before your car challenge video. I'm loving it. Have you thought about adding fixability to the doug score?
THIS! Car Podcast always drops perfectly for me here in Germany! Just right after Work! Always looking forward to it each Friday for a Good Start into the Weekend! Prost & Cheers from the Snow-Covered Berchtesgaden in the Bavarian Alps
Timing is great for me too, Forza Horizon's new season starts Thursdays so I miss his Thursday reviews. But when I get home from work Friday morning (I work overnights) I have enough time to watch his Thursday upload and then the podcast right after 👍
Yep, same here, Chris Harris' podcast also always drops on Friday and i enjoy watching both as i come home from work. I usually watch LawVS as well, that often drops right as i get home every day, it almost feels like watching programmed TV again back in the day, which is kinda nice, as i haven't done that anymore since 2008. EDIT: btw i know that it's Saturday now, haha, but i was a bit tired yesterday and fell asleep on the couch.
When I wanted a sporty-ish car, I opted for a 14 year old, 1 owner, Audi TT Roadster Quattro 225. When new, it was a $50k car. I picked it up for $9k with 65k miles, fully services at Audi with a new top. After seeing the service records, the original owner had spent nearly $17k on repairs and maintenance, including that new top. I had a paid for 5 year old minivan and a paid for 10 year old mid-sized SUV. I say all of that to say, these new car prices are ridiculous. If you are disciplined enough to wait for that one, special car you’re looking for at just the right price, save up cash and pay for it, you’ll save soooo much money over new. Good cars are out there, you just need to be patient and don’t sell your soul to borrow and buy it. Obviously my opinion and what works for me. I just know when I didn’t do this in my younger years, and had to pay a car payment and a repair bill, I didn’t love the car anymore.
I wish this worked for the Countach though.. I'm 41 and prices basically go up every second, but yeah, in general, buying used is much better financially and mentally, as you don't have to worry about depreciation anymore. And i guess if you time it right, by the time you have saved enough for a new one, you might be able to buy a used one that already has gone through the "infant diseases", like a pair of worn in shoes. On the other hand, or foot, i can also imagine to be wanting to be stubborn and experience the troubles myself, but yeah, that shouldn't cost you too much and get you into more troubles because of it.
Btw the xterra badge was already back in 2021 for certain markets. Like in the Middle East the new xterra came out in 2021 although it’s known as the Nissan terra in some markets
The Nissan Z numbers are only bad because of the dealer markups. But Nissan won't recognize that. They'll simply look at the numbers sold vs the amount of money spent making it, and they'll conclude that sports cars are a terrible investment and never make one again. Which is a bummer, because 350z and 370z are everywhere.
And why are there dealer markups? Because the dealers are getting so few of them. See what dealers are gonna be asking when they have 30 in stock. Supply and demand.
Pretty much all sports cars are cursed by that, as well as the over-complication and unnecessary electronics that also add cost and don't need to be there if the goal is an affordable sports car.
At 40 and 45 grand these carsxare pretty expensive, and people in general are not enthusiastic about them. Maybe kids of today will desire them years onward...
@@MattJelonek The problem with the system is that hard work only pays off if you own your business. Like your photography business. But for most people, hard work simply makes whoever employs them richer faster. Most people don't want to be business owners. So a good system would not expect or force them to be. They should have the freedom not to be. They just want their hard work to pay off. A better system would be one where hard work pays off for people other than just business owners.
Doug! Im a few years older than you and have been playing tennis for 14 months. And the funny part is, I’m undefeated so far somehow😂. If you want to break my streak, I can pop down to the OC. Or if you’re ever in LA, I have a court at my place. Come by and let’s play a set! 🎾🤙
THIS podcast is fast becoming my favorite go to podcast and auto channel. I’ve discontinued numerous channels lately, but THIS, BTG, TST, and Harry’s Garage are the ones I follow religiously. And JayEmm on cars from time to time if the car or subject is interesting. And occasionally Out of Spec Reviews. Keep up the good work guys!!💪🏻💪🏻
Without a doubt, the winner of the NY International Auto Show in 2024 was the Genesis area where they showed off their Magma lineup and I remember walking around the X Gran Berlinetta for what felt like 30 minutes to an hour. That car is hands down one of the most beautiful cars I've ever seen in the modern era and it almost looks production-ready to boot.
I think one way manufacturers could differentiate is, by offering more custom options selections. We have Print-On-Demand tshirts and books that can be delivered to customers in 3 or 4 days. And cars used to be pretty easy to custom spec, which is no longer true due to sales tactics to get the car delivered before the customer realizes it's a big mistake. Also, because assembly lines make it much cheaper to build 200 of the exact same spec, then switch to 200 of another. But, as robots advance, so will less costly customization. Then again, there's evidence that 95% of customers want white, black and silver cars.
You can get an all but new Mach 1, or a well-maintained GT350 for the price of the 2024 GT Premium. The Z and Supra wre $50k-60k for the "one you want" upon debut. Car companies really got out over their skis thinking buyers were going to pay this much for sports cars that are priced SO CLOSE to the next tier of sports car, and completely abandoning the median income enthusiasts where the Mustang, Camaro, Z, etc used to sit. If you load up a Mustang GT, you are in Porsche Cayman/ Corvette territory, which is insane. I think the Z sold more this year because Nissan had to start radically reducing prices. You can get a Z Sport Manual for $37k on the east coast and the MSRP was $44k. It's officially "You have to pay to play" season. If you aren't making $100k, you can only get a Miata or a 86. period.
I agree with your "pay to play season" point, the wealth divide is just too big nowadays and the middle class can't justify let alone afford to buy a sports car. The MSRP of a base 2003 350Z was $26,800, which is equivalent to $46,550 today, so the new Z pricing is actually right in line with what it used to be. $46K is just too much nowadays for a niche product, and since people need a car they have to buy something practical (hence the popularity of crossovers and SUVs). And as they mentioned in the video, the people with money aren't going to buy a lowly Nissan or Toyota sports car, they're buying Porsches, so the $30K-$60K range of great sports cars we have nowadays are selling in small numbers and ultimately will get cancelled. The politicians, corporations, and wealthy elites have decimated the lower and middle classes over the last 20 years and this has resulted in the poor sales of today.
@@J5335J Car makers aren't realizing that a LOT of their customers are making actual life decisions with their paycheck. House that is relatively close work and drive a beater, or apartment 30 minutes (1 hour in traffic) away from work with a Mustang GT? People are not going to pay $800/month + $200 insurance+ Gas for JUST a sports a car.
The estimates are around 50 BILLION in lost property. The estimate came from some high level finance/consulting guy. He was from on of The Big 5 Firms. Just so you know, Im from Texas, and this has been headline news all day, every day. Its absolutely a national story
90% of all car trips are a solo occupant with little to no cargo. Almost anyone in a two car household could have one vehicle be a fun one, they just don’t realize it.😞
@@billminkowitz3710 That is why I started riding motorcycles as a huge car guy. Why drive a big lump of metal on 4 wheels if you don’t need to carry anything else than your own body. A motorcycle is cheaper to operate (in general) and even more fun than driving a car. You feel more connected to the machine.
hey man, it might be too late but bringing back the xterra would be a smart move especially if that merger goes through totally. I've always been a fan of em and wish they never really went away (having never driven one but always wanted the opportunity). Now if only the FJ could come back.
@@AhmedMJ97 Yes its overseas only, Dubai and desert countries, But like the Xtrail and Patrol, Navara and others, they will be different when they come to this side if they use it as a global platform. If not there will be a different unit all together, then not sold globally, it'll be US/CAN market only.
I was there in person for the Honda CES event, and they look way better in person. The proportions are still weird but better looking than the photos for SURE There was also SO MANY Chinese autos (mainly GEELY brands)
VM Engineering from Italy made the 3.0 Ecodiesel that was in the Grand Cherokee, Ram 1500, and later the Wrangler. I have a 14 Grand Cherokee Summit EcoDiesel that I bought new and now have 207k miles. I love it.
LA/Malibu Fires: While this is a car pod, one can clearly see in the latest videos in the news that the way the fires spread on the beach in Malibu don't look anything normal or something that couldn't have been avoided with proper planning. There was a similar story that played out in Maui a while ago. 🤔 It is of course very sad with lots of innocent people (and cars) involved. ... Cheers to all the great car content.
About CES, I was there last week, and there were more people than last year. Probably 150,000 attendees, less car companies than last year though. The Honda folks couldn't really say much, but Sony gave all sorts of info.
In Canada we got the Mazda 6 Diesel (2014 model year only) and the CX-5 Diesel (2019 model year only). Very rare but I have seen them listed for sale a few times.
I saw a video of this guy driving around in the fires. Many homes burned down, lots of traffic, and some valuable cars left behind. There was a 1st gen GTO, a 70's Land Rover, and a Viper.
I live in the northeast and recently saw a Suzuki x90 with those exact weird three spoke wheels a few days again and ever since I saw them I’ve been trying to picture a car in my head that those wheels could possibly look good on lol
28:52 In 2020 my work vehicle had a 180 degree constant rear view camera. I could see the sidewalks on both sides of the street. I frequently rent new cars and basically nothing has this level of quality. Instead of installing 43 sensors maybe install one good one.
16:19 Mazda was planning on making a diesel for the 6 and CX-5, but they were unable to get their diesel to comply with emissions standards for 2019 and later, so the 2018 CX-5 was the only diesel Mazda sold in the US
17:50 I don't believe anything Honda says about prototypes. I learned my lesson with the "Urban EV" prototype. One of the coolest looking cars ever made... And then they came out with the "Honda E", and tried to convince us that they're the same.
I’m so happy that Mazda has embraced the Miata Culture. They really are the only manufacturer that a middle class enthusiast can attain. I would happily buy the exact same Miata new after mine is has high mileage. The car simply works and there are very few major changes to be made.
I think Miata is in a slightly different niche than Nissan and Porsche. In 2024 the Miata is $30k, the Z is $44k and the 911 is $106k. The Miata is a fun car that an average person can afford. The Z is basically the same amount of fun for 150% of the price. The 911 isn't more than three times as fun as a Miata, at that point it is just class signaling.
@mrmikal11 You don't really sound like you are having more fun than Miata drivers. In order to convince anyone you need to tell positive stories about your favorite cars. Trolling is a sign of inadequacy.
@@WhatIfBrigadeMiata owners don’t have much fun themselves; perhaps, some further self reflection on your part will help you understand other viewpoints.
Finding a new supra at a dealership is still impossible and used ones are still going above msrp in my area. This is a case where they would sell a lot more if they made more.
in Asia, Mercedes has a lot of Maybach cars - EQS Maybach, Vito Maybach, GLS Maybach, and a bunch of S class - S400, S450, S480, S500, S600 - all got Maybach versions.
The music starting in the middle of a conversation before an add starts is a bit disconcerting, lol. Was wondering if something was playing in another tab.
What about Matt Farrah? His facility is below San Monica! Hope he is ok! I'm in Asheville NC everything here still devastated. I feel for them! ....Doug is the type to actually care... ❤🙌
Number of sensors at least tells you something relevant: how intelligent the car can be in preventing you from wrapping it around a pole. Number of speakers or cupholders is completely irrelevant if that number is greater than 2.
Pretty sad about the Z, Supra and Miata sales. How many sales for the BRZ/86? I wish I could get one of these-but even the used car market doesn’t have much affordable based on the money I could safely spend on a sports car. Great informative video.
Nissan has been in the off road game in the Middle East. The patrol is very popular and competes with the Land Cruiser. And you can still buy a brand new xterra
40:43 Dough channeling Jeremy Irons in Margin Call. As much as I don't like to admit, Doug has a really good touch of the auto industry pulse and every super car maker, including Ferrari, will print money selling generic crossover EVs to mega-millionaires.
The issue with the Z in the US was dealer markups… then following a year they had to sell the 2023 model when launched so they reduced prices but still gouged buyers with marking up the Nismo version in 2024. The issue in Australia was demand but no supply. Now they’re selling but not how they should have in which I believe is better. Keep the car niche. I own the new Z and might, might have seen a hand full, hand full and a half around. Otherwise rare. And I love it.
I live in CA and I’ve only seen one Z on the road since its release. I’ve probably seen 300 Supras in the last 2 years. Hard to believe the Z is outselling anything.
There was an X-90 that was for sale for over 12 months. I wish I bought it...they're a Vitara, they're genuine low range offroaders. I believe there are only 2 still registered here in Australia. But I'd buy one if it came along. The 1.6 was reasonable...the 2.0 Four cylinder in the wide body short wheel base was excellent. The 2.0 V6 "Estate" will learn you a manual transmission. And expensive to fix. But they're real offroaders and teach you exactly how to flood and destroy your 4WDs in the future...😊😊
The Ferrari EV is literally just a levante body. Its hard to tell but earlier photos confirm this Test mules have no bearing on the final car. Think of the DBX test mule which was a lifted E63
I feel like the next step in the expansion of electric cars is licensed IP. Cars ripped from video games and movies (Mad Max, Halo, Bladerunner, etc.) slapped on a generic electric chassis.
44:23 it is crazy that in USA you can drive with some minimal insurance (because I assume that what uninsured means in this case, if that person doesnt have insurance at all its crazy) that covers almost nothing even when you are at fault
In California it's not legal to drive without insurance but fines are a few hundred dollars for your first offense so something like over 15-20% of drivers don't bother. Where I live in Canada fines start more like $3000+ and uninsured is probably around 5%
@@JoeUrbanYYC 5% sounds like a lot when fine is that high tbh, I live in europe and I dont think it cracks even 1%, fines are not that big but they are around median monthly salary so maybe relatively expensive. In case someone didnt have insurance repair is covered by national institution that later tries to get the money back from the person at fault (so its more effective since they are not another company and they have better access to income records etc)
@@cyjanek7818 apparently in Ontario and British Columbia it is 1-2% but in Alberta its closer to 10% 😬 so I just picked 5% as an average but it really depends on where you are.
The M2 CS is more rare than the 1M, there are only 589 in the US and manuals are still selling near sticker. By most accounts it drives (and looks) better, too.
Kennan the type of guy to secretly despise the Doug Score, as it does not fairly assess the E39 M5.
😂😂😂
"Cheap" sport cars will continue declining as the middle class stop existing in America, is pretty simple and even doug said it without realizing "nobody has money to buy an impractical car, unless they have a ton of money for one"
Yeah it’s crazy. If you want to spend $70,000 or more on a sports car, there has never been more choice. If you want something under $50,000, there has never been less choice.
The wealth divide is growing. It’s a big club and most people aren’t in it.
or it is the cheapest car on the market. A sporty looking but maybe 150 HP NA I4 manual sports car for 15k would sell like hotcakes as long as it was RWD and looked good.
@@fortheloveofnoise It’s likely impossible to make any car for $15k in the US now. Also, you literally described an ND.1 Miata which was still $26k at the time. You could pull cost out of an ND.1, but not $10k.
Total war on middle class by tRump and his ultra rich friends. For those who voted that way, you hosed yourself.
Maybe but kids don’t want sports cars anymore. Maybe they aren’t cool like they used to be. When I was 17 all I wanted was a Honda prelude. I’m pretty sure every kid now wants some type of truck/suv/jeep type thing. At least in America.
"Me and kenan could do it over a weekend with a couple of cold ones" is the new "How hard could it be" joke... Love it!
Yah Doug's a mechanic now 😂😂😂
The EV Ferrari prototype is SO upsetting! I'm the one who got the sound clips, and the soundbar hidden behind the the rear bumper makes an interesting noise, but not even close to a regular combustion engine.
Design-wise I can assure you it's not gonna look anywhere near this weird Grecale/Levante mix, they've been using Maserati chassis as test mules for years
Anyway, you can find many clips of this and other upcoming Ferrari prototypes on my channel, feel free to use them for future episodes :)
Evs are gay
Doug is right. That EV Ferrari is horrific, but most people buy the badge - as Porsche has proven. Ferrari - like BMW - will make more money selling crap cars to idiots.
Porsche deliberately makes very few GT3s because they are for marketing, not profit. Having those being 'special' and more expensive on the used market is great for marketing. All of this means more people buy Macans - and that's where the profit is.
Doug, your podcast is so addicting!
It has become a routine to watch it every week on Friday!!
At the beginning, I didn’t quite like Kennan & Filippo but now they have become my Favorite Hosts alongside Doug.
You guys deserve the best because you keep us entertained, every episode has it’s own charm!
Its the perfect remedy for slow Fridays at work lol
They can't all be your favourite. That's not what favourite means
BEST. EPISODE. EVER.
😆
Nick is great too
There's 2 podcasts that come out on Fridays that i love watching, this (or should i say THIS!) and Chris Harris & Friends.
And a lot of times they overlap with conversations about the most random things, which is kinda cool, having a bunch of 'busy kids' and a bunch of old dads talking about the same things.
Missed opportunity not calling the Sony car the "Driveman"
Hah, yeah, i actually made that joke as well years ago when it also dawned on me how everything had to have "man" added to it.
Still wondered why they didn't make the TVman, and i guess "Playman/Gameman" wasn't a smart move, between the GameBoy and Playboy.
Banger
Would have had to be "Drive-Person" because I have blue hair and a septum piercing, and it would be offensive to assume a car's gender.
37:00 about the discussion around diversification in brand line-ups. Brands are NOT your friend. They exist for one, and only one, thing: make money. There's no point getting angry about it. Look what people thought about the Cayenne when it came out and now Doug and Kennan agree they both would get a last gen Turbo
Yes exactly, I used to be like these guys on the podcast, when in truth, it's gonna be an awesome car, buyers will love them and they will make tons of money, that's all that matters :)
That's why I have become so accepting of brand diversification, like, I really like Porsche and I love Lamborghini, am I gonna sit here and tell people that the Panamera, Cayenne, Macan and Urus are bad cars because they are not pure? No. They are awesome SUVs (and a Sedan).
You know, variety IS the spice of life, and as long as they keep making the 911, Cayman, Temerario and Revuelto lines I'll be happy :), (Hell, this even aids them in making those cars)
@@adrien8613 yeah, if this podcast would exist back then Kennan would 100% say it's blasphemy an the end of Porsche
@@Bmontepeque11 Yeah totally, i cannot afford any of the Lamborghinis, so how could i protest this, Lamborghini also needs the money to continue to make cool cars.
When the Urus came out, i hated it, also because i already hated the soccer mom hype, and the only Lamborghinis i would ever see in my neighborhood was the Urus, which only made it more annoying.
But, it basically saved the company, and to be honest, it looks alright for an SUV, at least when you see it you can believe that it was a Lambo, it still has the aggressive design and sound going on, but on a SUV.
I still don't like the car, but i honestly don't love many cars anymore anyway, it all started (and ended) with the Countach and Diablo for me.
And Doug is also right about the different car having a totally different plane of existence.
Some people just want a sporty car, other people want the most expensive car of that sporty brand and the former wouldn't even recognize or acknowledge the other car's existence, because it simply is not on their radar or has any bearing on their day to day life, they simply don't care, and of course, there's also some jealous jerks.
Plus, some people do care, but just want to own something that bears the brand name, even if it isn't a Countach.
It's basically improved merch, something that might be affordable to a lot more "fans" out there, something more than a brand aftershave (Lamborghini aftershave ain't bad, hah), or a backpack etc., they know it is not a Countach, but they can still say that they drive a Lambo, they still sorta have a finger in the pie.
Plus, without them, the brand might've been in a lot more trouble financially, so yeah...
It may be against the will for car enthusiasts but then it's very understandable that they have to make mundane products to make a profit. They can make as many practical crossovers as they can as long as they have enthusiast cars to sell and we're all good.
Still haven't seen a Nissan Z on the road or at any show or c&c. A local dealership has an unsold 2023 model on their floor room, next to 4 other 2024 models. All of them marked up, only two manuals. No nismos. And no one else here in the Northeast seems to have seen one either.
I know this is full conspiracy territory but I really don't believe this vehicle is actually intended to be sold. This models' entire existence feels like a gift from Nissan to their dealerships as a free marketing/markup promotion with no intention of it being a revenue generator through sales. A blatant appeal to their sports car fans who have grown up and know they can't buy a sports car anymore. The demo with the young family who used to have a 350Z or their dad had a 300ZX: the demo that appreciates the Z exists as they go in to get their third Rogue in as many years. Certainly not aimed at the demo of younger buyers who might actually want a sports car.
I've seen one on the street. Once
Many could do this and afford a fun third weekend car with a family a few decades ago... not anymore, new car prices have gone up way too much, with everything else, and lagging income.
Could just be you are in a state that doesn't have a strong Z culture. Arizona Z culture is really strong and there are a lot of Nissan Zs out here. Still rarer than a supra mk5 tho.
Bottom line the new Z is just not that good of a car. My brother bought one new 2 years ago when they came out, and he sold it 6 months later. It's just not that special. Everything under it's skin is just the old outdated Z. I agree with Doug, Nissan of today is a disaster of a company. They are clueless, and it's a shame, as I used to be a big fan.
yeah Ive seen one or two and like maybe five supras lol
Doug, I have lost a home in a large forest fire. My family had 45 minutes to leave. The cars were the last thing anyone worried about. In the end my family was safe and that was most of it. They were homeless in a Subaru with a few handfuls of jewelry. People will rebuild and recover. As a side note I just bought a 2006 Cayenne Turbo a week before your car challenge video. I'm loving it. Have you thought about adding fixability to the doug score?
I think that's what he includes into the value of the car.
He used to explain the categories back in the day, but now just gives the score flat out.
Could you please update the DOUG SCORE spreadsheet on the Doug DeMuro website? Thanks!
THIS! Car Podcast always drops perfectly for me here in Germany! Just right after Work!
Always looking forward to it each Friday for a Good Start into the Weekend!
Prost & Cheers from the Snow-Covered Berchtesgaden in the Bavarian Alps
Timing is great for me too, Forza Horizon's new season starts Thursdays so I miss his Thursday reviews.
But when I get home from work Friday morning (I work overnights) I have enough time to watch his Thursday upload and then the podcast right after 👍
Same here! Nothing like leaving work earlier on a Friday and have this podcast to look forward to on my way home.
Cheers to the fellow Bavarian!
Genau
Yep, same here, Chris Harris' podcast also always drops on Friday and i enjoy watching both as i come home from work.
I usually watch LawVS as well, that often drops right as i get home every day, it almost feels like watching programmed TV again back in the day, which is kinda nice, as i haven't done that anymore since 2008.
EDIT: btw i know that it's Saturday now, haha, but i was a bit tired yesterday and fell asleep on the couch.
My friend lost his gt3rs in the fire, 10 friends lost houses, and there is a chance we lose ours too. Thanks for talking about it
When I wanted a sporty-ish car, I opted for a 14 year old, 1 owner, Audi TT Roadster Quattro 225. When new, it was a $50k car. I picked it up for $9k with 65k miles, fully services at Audi with a new top. After seeing the service records, the original owner had spent nearly $17k on repairs and maintenance, including that new top. I had a paid for 5 year old minivan and a paid for 10 year old mid-sized SUV.
I say all of that to say, these new car prices are ridiculous. If you are disciplined enough to wait for that one, special car you’re looking for at just the right price, save up cash and pay for it, you’ll save soooo much money over new. Good cars are out there, you just need to be patient and don’t sell your soul to borrow and buy it.
Obviously my opinion and what works for me. I just know when I didn’t do this in my younger years, and had to pay a car payment and a repair bill, I didn’t love the car anymore.
Good advice, but if interest rates were cheap I would probably finance
@@DeanoKelley what year was it though, 50k USD back then might he already at the level we are today
I wish this worked for the Countach though..
I'm 41 and prices basically go up every second, but yeah, in general, buying used is much better financially and mentally, as you don't have to worry about depreciation anymore.
And i guess if you time it right, by the time you have saved enough for a new one, you might be able to buy a used one that already has gone through the "infant diseases", like a pair of worn in shoes.
On the other hand, or foot, i can also imagine to be wanting to be stubborn and experience the troubles myself, but yeah, that shouldn't cost you too much and get you into more troubles because of it.
@@cyjanek7818it was a 2000, I bought in 2014.
Btw the xterra badge was already back in 2021 for certain markets. Like in the Middle East the new xterra came out in 2021 although it’s known as the Nissan terra in some markets
the 458 Italia was peak ferrari. aggressive styling, screams, shouts and revs. an untamed beast.
Love the 458, but I don't see a world where its design would be considered aggressive.
Beast is the wrong word..untamed beauty.
@@theoneandonlybosableI think it was for its time. It was such a dramatic styling change from the 430
I hated the 458 design 🤷♂️
@@ripem1417 I would not call the difference drastic between the 360 and the F8, let alone the 430 and 458.
The Nissan Z numbers are only bad because of the dealer markups. But Nissan won't recognize that. They'll simply look at the numbers sold vs the amount of money spent making it, and they'll conclude that sports cars are a terrible investment and never make one again. Which is a bummer, because 350z and 370z are everywhere.
Idk. My local dealer has a nismo for sale for $15k less than msrp.
Dealers could have them listed 20% off and no one would buy them
And why are there dealer markups? Because the dealers are getting so few of them. See what dealers are gonna be asking when they have 30 in stock. Supply and demand.
Pretty much all sports cars are cursed by that, as well as the over-complication and unnecessary electronics that also add cost and don't need to be there if the goal is an affordable sports car.
At 40 and 45 grand these carsxare pretty expensive, and people in general are not enthusiastic about them. Maybe kids of today will desire them years onward...
We should watch to see if the fires become a land grab afterwards. So many disasters happening to prime real estate locations.
A normal person can’t afford $40000 + sports cars. People wages don’t go up fast enough
wage goes up price goes up.
Then you’re doing life wrong.
@@MattJelonek if it applies to most people (it does) then there problem with the system. Unless you think even worse wealth distribution is good lol
@@cyjanek7818what system is that? I work hard with what I do and have set priorities on what I spend.
@@MattJelonek The problem with the system is that hard work only pays off if you own your business. Like your photography business.
But for most people, hard work simply makes whoever employs them richer faster.
Most people don't want to be business owners. So a good system would not expect or force them to be. They should have the freedom not to be. They just want their hard work to pay off.
A better system would be one where hard work pays off for people other than just business owners.
Let’s get that Saturn video 👀
Look forward to this pod every week!
We need the saturn video.
Keep up the great work you guys really do y’all. Keep it up especially with the Louisiana attacks and the fires lately.
Doug! Im a few years older than you and have been playing tennis for 14 months. And the funny part is, I’m undefeated so far somehow😂. If you want to break my streak, I can pop down to the OC. Or if you’re ever in LA, I have a court at my place. Come by and let’s play a set! 🎾🤙
THIS podcast is fast becoming my favorite go to podcast and auto channel. I’ve discontinued numerous channels lately, but THIS, BTG, TST, and Harry’s Garage are the ones I follow religiously. And JayEmm on cars from time to time if the car or subject is interesting. And occasionally Out of Spec Reviews. Keep up the good work guys!!💪🏻💪🏻
This is my favourite podcast on anything. All three of you guys feel like my friends
I'm a MachE (GTPE) owner. I've never called it a Mustang and interestingly, the word Mustang doesn't appear anywhere on the car.
But the mustang logo does
Mach-stang E (or Mockstang).
Without a doubt, the winner of the NY International Auto Show in 2024 was the Genesis area where they showed off their Magma lineup and I remember walking around the X Gran Berlinetta for what felt like 30 minutes to an hour. That car is hands down one of the most beautiful cars I've ever seen in the modern era and it almost looks production-ready to boot.
This is where I come to learn about automotive technology, Mongolian Cashmere sweaters, and alternatives to stiff, uncomfortable pant fabrics.
I think one way manufacturers could differentiate is, by offering more custom options selections. We have Print-On-Demand tshirts and books that can be delivered to customers in 3 or 4 days. And cars used to be pretty easy to custom spec, which is no longer true due to sales tactics to get the car delivered before the customer realizes it's a big mistake. Also, because assembly lines make it much cheaper to build 200 of the exact same spec, then switch to 200 of another.
But, as robots advance, so will less costly customization. Then again, there's evidence that 95% of customers want white, black and silver cars.
You can get an all but new Mach 1, or a well-maintained GT350 for the price of the 2024 GT Premium. The Z and Supra wre $50k-60k for the "one you want" upon debut. Car companies really got out over their skis thinking buyers were going to pay this much for sports cars that are priced SO CLOSE to the next tier of sports car, and completely abandoning the median income enthusiasts where the Mustang, Camaro, Z, etc used to sit. If you load up a Mustang GT, you are in Porsche Cayman/ Corvette territory, which is insane. I think the Z sold more this year because Nissan had to start radically reducing prices. You can get a Z Sport Manual for $37k on the east coast and the MSRP was $44k.
It's officially "You have to pay to play" season. If you aren't making $100k, you can only get a Miata or a 86. period.
I agree with your "pay to play season" point, the wealth divide is just too big nowadays and the middle class can't justify let alone afford to buy a sports car. The MSRP of a base 2003 350Z was $26,800, which is equivalent to $46,550 today, so the new Z pricing is actually right in line with what it used to be. $46K is just too much nowadays for a niche product, and since people need a car they have to buy something practical (hence the popularity of crossovers and SUVs). And as they mentioned in the video, the people with money aren't going to buy a lowly Nissan or Toyota sports car, they're buying Porsches, so the $30K-$60K range of great sports cars we have nowadays are selling in small numbers and ultimately will get cancelled. The politicians, corporations, and wealthy elites have decimated the lower and middle classes over the last 20 years and this has resulted in the poor sales of today.
@@J5335J Car makers aren't realizing that a LOT of their customers are making actual life decisions with their paycheck. House that is relatively close work and drive a beater, or apartment 30 minutes (1 hour in traffic) away from work with a Mustang GT? People are not going to pay $800/month + $200 insurance+ Gas for JUST a sports a car.
53:30 please release the Saturn video!
The estimates are around 50 BILLION in lost property. The estimate came from some high level finance/consulting guy. He was from on of The Big 5 Firms.
Just so you know, Im from Texas, and this has been headline news all day, every day. Its absolutely a national story
90% of all car trips are a solo occupant with little to no cargo. Almost anyone in a two car household could have one vehicle be a fun one, they just don’t realize it.😞
@@billminkowitz3710 That is why I started riding motorcycles as a huge car guy. Why drive a big lump of metal on 4 wheels if you don’t need to carry anything else than your own body. A motorcycle is cheaper to operate (in general) and even more fun than driving a car. You feel more connected to the machine.
hey man, it might be too late but bringing back the xterra would be a smart move especially if that merger goes through totally. I've always been a fan of em and wish they never really went away (having never driven one but always wanted the opportunity). Now if only the FJ could come back.
@@rump438 The New Generation is on sale, but I think it’s not offered in the US Market.
@@AhmedMJ97 Yes its overseas only, Dubai and desert countries, But like the Xtrail and Patrol, Navara and others, they will be different when they come to this side if they use it as a global platform. If not there will be a different unit all together, then not sold globally, it'll be US/CAN market only.
First time I’ve watched one of these podcasts, and you guys are effortlessly interesting. So many podcasts fail to capture the energy we see here
I want to see the Saturn SL video! Please release it soon!
20:07 random stranger walking through Daddy Doug's lair.
I was there in person for the Honda CES event, and they look way better in person. The proportions are still weird but better looking than the photos for SURE
There was also SO MANY Chinese autos (mainly GEELY brands)
I know the Enzo owner! I met him 20 years ago in Malibu as a kid. Sat in the Enzo and everything. It’s gotta be the same one ❤
VM Engineering from Italy made the 3.0 Ecodiesel that was in the Grand Cherokee, Ram 1500, and later the Wrangler. I have a 14 Grand Cherokee Summit EcoDiesel that I bought new and now have 207k miles. I love it.
Doug for CEO of Nissan!!
For some reason the monkey noise makes my dog go crazy. Preparing for the surprise chaos the next time it shows up in a video
53:40 plz 🙏 bring out the Saturn review.
Chargers and Challengers have also taken away from the sport car segment. Relatively inexpensive HP.
LA/Malibu Fires: While this is a car pod, one can clearly see in the latest videos in the news that the way the fires spread on the beach in Malibu don't look anything normal or something that couldn't have been avoided with proper planning. There was a similar story that played out in Maui a while ago. 🤔 It is of course very sad with lots of innocent people (and cars) involved. ... Cheers to all the great car content.
Need segment is my favorite. Feels more down to earth like a good water cooler convo.
clothing brand manager: "lets advertise our clothes on Doug Dumuros podcast, he's such a fashion icon" a cargo shorts fashion icon!
Kennans body language towards Phillipo was strong in this pod 😅
About CES, I was there last week, and there were more people than last year. Probably 150,000 attendees, less car companies than last year though. The Honda folks couldn't really say much, but Sony gave all sorts of info.
In Canada we got the Mazda 6 Diesel (2014 model year only) and the CX-5 Diesel (2019 model year only). Very rare but I have seen them listed for sale a few times.
I saw a video of this guy driving around in the fires. Many homes burned down, lots of traffic, and some valuable cars left behind. There was a 1st gen GTO, a 70's Land Rover, and a Viper.
When my wife saw the new Honda's she said 'They look like USB drives', and I don't think I've heard a better take
Answer to the hose bib question: if it's connected to potable water, it must be lead free.
35:00 Speaking of Ferrari test mules, look at the LaFerrari test mule. They had all the hybrid components with the engine in a 458 of all things
We have 2015 Nissan Xterras in Canada.. thats the last year they sold them here.
I live in the northeast and recently saw a Suzuki x90 with those exact weird three spoke wheels a few days again and ever since I saw them I’ve been trying to picture a car in my head that those wheels could possibly look good on lol
59:00 Now that you finally reviewed the 987 Cayman, it's time to review my other car, the seldom seen Acura RSX Type-S 😎
28:52 In 2020 my work vehicle had a 180 degree constant rear view camera. I could see the sidewalks on both sides of the street. I frequently rent new cars and basically nothing has this level of quality. Instead of installing 43 sensors maybe install one good one.
16:19 Mazda was planning on making a diesel for the 6 and CX-5, but they were unable to get their diesel to comply with emissions standards for 2019 and later, so the 2018 CX-5 was the only diesel Mazda sold in the US
17:50 I don't believe anything Honda says about prototypes. I learned my lesson with the "Urban EV" prototype. One of the coolest looking cars ever made... And then they came out with the "Honda E", and tried to convince us that they're the same.
They are identical
@@lonerider5315 🤡
Looks like a Daytona Challenger and a Santa Fe had a baby
I’m so happy that Mazda has embraced the Miata Culture. They really are the only manufacturer that a middle class enthusiast can attain. I would happily buy the exact same Miata new after mine is has high mileage. The car simply works and there are very few major changes to be made.
*Working class
The market hasn't cooled at all. They're still too expensive. Especially when you can get a good 350z for under $15k.
Define good for a 350Z. Because that's one of the cars where "stock" is accepted to mean only about $2,000 in mods 🤣
@markcoopers1930 we still have them actually stock in michigan.
There’s plenty of z’s discounted especially with the new rate for the z. The sports car market is simply dead.
Ahaha, omg, I knew the winner was gonna choose the C6!!!😂😂😂 I've been telling from Episode 1 that Filippo won!
Best time of the week, finish with a little THIS! Pod
Great discussion - especially with the Ferrari discussion.
I think Miata is in a slightly different niche than Nissan and Porsche. In 2024 the Miata is $30k, the Z is $44k and the 911 is $106k. The Miata is a fun car that an average person can afford. The Z is basically the same amount of fun for 150% of the price. The 911 isn't more than three times as fun as a Miata, at that point it is just class signaling.
The Miata is absolutely overrated, and all their owners resort to virtue signal as a cover up for their mental illnesses.
@mrmikal11 You don't really sound like you are having more fun than Miata drivers. In order to convince anyone you need to tell positive stories about your favorite cars. Trolling is a sign of inadequacy.
@@WhatIfBrigadeMiata owners don’t have much fun themselves; perhaps, some further self reflection on your part will help you understand other viewpoints.
@mrmikal11 You still don't sound like you are having fun. I understand that viewpoint very well. It just isn't very compelling. Good luck!
30k for a miata is ridiculous should be a 20k car max lol mazda is a joke
They sold more 911s but a 911 is anything from awd to rwd, auto or manual, convertible or coupe, wide body or narrow body and multiple engine options.
Very impressed with your ability to create quality and interesting content
Finding a new supra at a dealership is still impossible and used ones are still going above msrp in my area. This is a case where they would sell a lot more if they made more.
in Asia, Mercedes has a lot of Maybach cars - EQS Maybach, Vito Maybach, GLS Maybach, and a bunch of S class - S400, S450, S480, S500, S600 - all got Maybach versions.
Xterra was discontinued in 15 not 12
Saturn review, yes please.
the italian truck diesel you're trying to think of is the 2.8L duramax, and its great
BYD already sells 18k USD EVs (direct conversion) in Brazil, and theyre a big hit here!
The music starting in the middle of a conversation before an add starts is a bit disconcerting, lol. Was wondering if something was playing in another tab.
VM Motori is the company that made the Ecodiesel. Also the 2.8L Duramax.
42:10 mate we just came 2nd in Constructors', 3rd and 5th in Drivers' and we signed Hamilton, how is that not doing good?
What about Matt Farrah? His facility is below San Monica! Hope he is ok! I'm in Asheville NC everything here still devastated. I feel for them! ....Doug is the type to actually care... ❤🙌
How the hell do you guys not show the car Honda debuted? The front end looks like a goddamn Lamborghini! It’s insane!
Good episode!!
Number of sensors at least tells you something relevant: how intelligent the car can be in preventing you from wrapping it around a pole. Number of speakers or cupholders is completely irrelevant if that number is greater than 2.
Love this pod. Had no idea there was a new Nissan z
Pretty sad about the Z, Supra and Miata sales. How many sales for the BRZ/86? I wish I could get one of these-but even the used car market doesn’t have much affordable based on the money I could safely spend on a sports car. Great informative video.
Doug, if it means anything to you, if I saw your GT in my Q5 I would look over and give the GT a thumbs up
I test drove a Z performance a few days ago, and I really liked it a lot. Not enough headroom for me, but they were offering zero percent financing.
Nissan has been in the off road game in the Middle East. The patrol is very popular and competes with the Land Cruiser. And you can still buy a brand new xterra
40:43 Dough channeling Jeremy Irons in Margin Call. As much as I don't like to admit, Doug has a really good touch of the auto industry pulse and every super car maker, including Ferrari, will print money selling generic crossover EVs to mega-millionaires.
The issue with the Z in the US was dealer markups… then following a year they had to sell the 2023 model when launched so they reduced prices but still gouged buyers with marking up the Nismo version in 2024. The issue in Australia was demand but no supply. Now they’re selling but not how they should have in which I believe is better. Keep the car niche. I own the new Z and might, might have seen a hand full, hand full and a half around. Otherwise rare. And I love it.
My neighbors had a green e36 coupe and a yellow xterra and a guant Hino box truck 🏁
I live in CA and I’ve only seen one Z on the road since its release. I’ve probably seen 300 Supras in the last 2 years. Hard to believe the Z is outselling anything.
That backpack comment made me laugh quite loudly in my bedroom. 😂
Thank you Doug
There was an X-90 that was for sale for over 12 months. I wish I bought it...they're a Vitara, they're genuine low range offroaders. I believe there are only 2 still registered here in Australia. But I'd buy one if it came along. The 1.6 was reasonable...the 2.0 Four cylinder in the wide body short wheel base was excellent. The 2.0 V6 "Estate" will learn you a manual transmission. And expensive to fix. But they're real offroaders and teach you exactly how to flood and destroy your 4WDs in the future...😊😊
resto mods are cool
58:16 full metal jacket reference lmao, i wonder what was the context that made him look that up
I have a JL diesel, 3.0L. Not the european 2.2L 4cylinder. Great vehicle for offroad, wish they still made them.
The Ferrari EV is literally just a levante body. Its hard to tell but earlier photos confirm this
Test mules have no bearing on the final car. Think of the DBX test mule which was a lifted E63
I feel like the next step in the expansion of electric cars is licensed IP. Cars ripped from video games and movies (Mad Max, Halo, Bladerunner, etc.) slapped on a generic electric chassis.
I learned to drive stick in my grandpa's 96 Z3 1.9L, the Clownshoe is my dream car
44:23 it is crazy that in USA you can drive with some minimal insurance (because I assume that what uninsured means in this case, if that person doesnt have insurance at all its crazy) that covers almost nothing even when you are at fault
In California it's not legal to drive without insurance but fines are a few hundred dollars for your first offense so something like over 15-20% of drivers don't bother. Where I live in Canada fines start more like $3000+ and uninsured is probably around 5%
@@JoeUrbanYYC 5% sounds like a lot when fine is that high tbh, I live in europe and I dont think it cracks even 1%, fines are not that big but they are around median monthly salary so maybe relatively expensive.
In case someone didnt have insurance repair is covered by national institution that later tries to get the money back from the person at fault (so its more effective since they are not another company and they have better access to income records etc)
@@cyjanek7818 apparently in Ontario and British Columbia it is 1-2% but in Alberta its closer to 10% 😬 so I just picked 5% as an average but it really depends on where you are.
The M2 CS is more rare than the 1M, there are only 589 in the US and manuals are still selling near sticker. By most accounts it drives (and looks) better, too.