Persona 5 Analysis - Brilliant but Flawed
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- Patreon: / namscomp
Discord: / discord
Twitter: / namscompendium
My Other Videos: • Nam's Compendium's Vid...
Welcome to my Persona 5 Analysis! Persona 5 is the most popular game in the series and in this Persona 5 Analysis, I'm going to be reviewing Persona 5. There will be story spoilers in this Persona 5 Review for Persona 4 and Persona 3 because I compare them to Persona 5. Persona 5 Brilliant but Flawed is just my own opinion on Persona 5. If you disagree with me, that's okay. This Persona 5 analysis is a follow-up to my Persona 4 analysis, so make sure you watch that as well. Persona 5 brilliant but flawed is the best video I've made.
0:00 Opening
3:23 Persona 5 Introduction.
10:37 Core Gameplay Analysis & Critique.
32:57 Confidants.
1:23:46 Narrative Structure Critique & Party Member Analysis
1:47:33 Persona 5's Plot & Themes.
2:02:20 Third Semester Analysis.
2:14:51 Conclusion.
2:17:46 Outro & Patreon Credits!
Well, this is it. Out of all the games I’ve covered for this channel so far, Persona 5 is by far the most requested one and for good reason too. When the game first launched back in late 2016 in Japan and April of 2017 for us western players, the game received overwhelming praise from both critics and fans alike. People were aware of Persona 4, everyone played Persona 5 when it came out. This combined with the inclusion of Persona 5’s protagonist, Joker, in the long-running Super Smash bros franchise, helped fully bring the Persona series into the mainstream. The momentum didn’t stop with that either. Much like Persona 4, P5 also received a handful of spinoff titles, a manga run, a bad anime, and multiple stage plays that I still really want to see. - Ігри
Thanks for watching! These videos take a long time to make, so if you'd like to show some support. Please consider checking out my Patreon or becoming a Channel Member!
www.patreon.com/NamsComp
Clicked on that notification as soon as I saw it. My body is ready.
I really appreciate these long reviews as they give me very good reasons to enjoy the games I play
Sorry, but I ain't watching this, at least not for he foreseeable future.
I'm sure you're gonna Nostalgia Critic aka "narrate thru the entire story and basically play the game for us" but there is stuff like the new Awakening and the new Palace that I don't want to be spoiled on.
Cheers for the 2 hour video though, could have had it running while doing chores right now.
@@Mageman17 wow that is such a good take
I already played p5r but I like hearing people talk about it
@@warriorofthegrandline2y618 I wish I could, but I probably can't get my hands on it for now since I don't have a PS4.
I do feel like I'm missing out but here are things I know, that I sometimes wish I didn't, like what magic happens in the third semester (the Japanese teaser pictures even show human Morgana and Wakaba, to try and stir the pot on us), reason for Akechi still existing, the song "I Believe" and why Joker was jumping towards a glass stair backdrop in one of the trailers (the glass stairs are how you get to the last boss, which I also know who).
Enjoy the vid, nonetheless.
Say what you want about Mishima but he's the only character that never enters the Metaverse who realizes that you're the Phantom Thieves without needing to speak to them 10 times
He's one of my favourite confidants, he's awesome
Meanwhile, Ryuji at Rank 10:
OmG! ArE yOu A pHaNtOm ThEiF?!?!
People hating on Mishima because he's the one who unironically relates to them most in real life.
@@m.artotzka3404 No mishima is just kinda cringey imo
@@HilbertXVI So that applies to you? Got it.
As Akihiko once said, "I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS"
Bruh funny shark tale crab man likes persona?
Edit: yes I know he likes it, I was making a joke
Did ya see that SHINJI!!
Welcome to the compendium Schaffrillas
Holly crap it's the funny Shrek guy
@@nickbarlas5544 He has Persona music in the bg of a ton of his videos, haha.
I cried like a baby at the end of Sojiro's arc when Futaba called him dad. I had a step-daughter who I later adopted. It was rocky for us for a while, but we started to get closer when she got in to her teen years, even more so when she got sick. She passed away at 14, almost three years ago. I remember the first time she called me her dad. I think that's what did it to me.
😥😥😥
[*internet hug]
( Internet nod of approval)
(nod of approval #2)
You're a good man, internet stranger.
My condolences
You missed one vital point regarding Kamoshida and Ryuji: Kamoshida specifically targeted him.
He didn't want any other sports-team at the school so "his" teams would raise his social status even more. Ryujis Track-team was actually very successfull, so, in Kamoshidas eyes, they needed to go. First he let their original trainer/ teacher get fired to become the track-team-trainer himself only to drill them so hard the team would disband, but Ryuji pulled through. That's when Kamoshida went after him, he was the biggest obstackle for his plans at that point. He went even so far to use his powers as a teacher (and the schools favorite golden boy) to find out about Ryujis father leaving his family and made this become public knowledge (Which is a HUGE social stigma in Japan mind you.)
Then he enraged Ryuji by talking about his father, leading to him snapping and attacking kamoshida who, on porpouse, broke Ryujis ankle while making it look like he acted in self defense.
This ment that, even if the track-team would've survived the scandal of Ryuji attacking a teacher, that they would be forced to stop because their best runner (Ryuji) was no longer able to compete.
(Also, while I cannot confirm this I've heard somewere that Kamoshidas story is apparently based on real events which involved a former football/soccer-player, but I could never find proof of that sadly.)
This was all part of P5s main-narrative: Each member of the Phantom thiefs was specifically targeted by a powerfull adult, there were no accidents involved which was important. There was a will coming from them to harm this teenagers, showing the sheer power of their personal corruption.
IIRC, it was actually a Judoka medalist. Edit: Yep, just looked it up and it was probably that so here is the story from wikipedia:
Masato Uchishiba (内柴 正人, Uchishiba Masato, born 17 June 1978 in Kōshi, Kumamoto) is a Japanese judoka who won the gold medal in the men's under 66 kg division at the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens, Greece, and at the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, China.
Starting in April 2010, Uchishiba coached the women's judo team at Kyushu University of Nursing and Social Welfare in Kumamoto Prefecture. In November 2011, the school released Uchishiba from his coaching position following sexual harassment allegations. On 6 December 2011, he was arrested by the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department on suspicion of rape in Tokyo in September 2011. Uchishiba said that the act was consensual. On 1 February 2013, Tokyo District Court has declined his claim as "impossible to trust", and sentenced him to 5 years in prison
PS: Only 5 years for raping a girl that was supposed to be his protegé? Holy fuck, someone go and get him a metal shutdown because this piece of shit deserves it.
@@LuizAlexPhoenix I think a problem is by now to measure the consequences of sexual crimes. He didn´t kill anyone and he didnt produced a society problem. Japan can still have pretty heavy punishments for this modern time. For example, they spoke death sentence for all the core members of Aun Shinrykio ( 13 people in total) for the Sarin poisen attack of 1995 in the Tokyo Subway.
Sex Crimes, especially for women, meanwhile are often tried to not make public (probably out of embarassement) by the government and so many rapist in japan dont get sentenced at all.
@@TheMetastasia There was a case of a teenager girl, named Junko Furuta. She was kidnapped while going home from work, tortured and raped for 40 odd days. They burned and cut her while raping her until her skin became a mess of pus and blood, letting her ultimately die in agony.
Those guys deserved at least life in prison by any moral standard, the ringleader was a teenager she rejected but he was related to the yakuza and young, he got 20 years in jail. The other kids didn't get over 10 years, some even went to boast about what they did and try to kill other people.
In sum, I don't feel like this is unique to Japan but some lives are clearly not worth much, specially women. Even though being raped is an awful trauma and rape is a crime in every civilization since writting was invented, rapists are often the ones that pay the least, if they pay at all.
@@LuizAlexPhoenix I’ll see if I can get Pancake Boy by having my alternate self travel to a timeline to get him.
@@LuizAlexPhoenix In Islam, whoever rapes and has evidence that it is 100% that person who raped, he gets a death sentence. Of course, most Muslim countries don't follow proper islamic law anymore.
The ryuji instant kill is the only thing that made mementos bearable.
They did good with that instant kill can't be fighting all these bums
I actually liked the insta kill perk a lot, but man was it jarring insta killing on the road up to the archangel mini bosses
Edit: clarity
Mementos was always long, but they didn't need to have your inventory stocked for multiple playthroughs, especially with Jose
It's horrible in vanilla because you don't get the xp or money from the fight so grinding was impossible at a high level because shadows run away if you're overleveled and its a pain to get in front of them to avoid the insta kill
@@jonballou5982 i agree it was a massive pain, i kind of wish there was an option to turn it off as it would then allow for grinding, especially where in the base game i needed specific materials or personas for the compendium.
Okumura is absolutely just as evil as the rest. Right of the bat he's giving his daughter away to a man he knows is abusive and he cares nothing for her outside of being an asset. On top of selling his daughter as someone's toy he abuses his entire workforce to the point of collapse.
Even if targeting okumara was entirely set up by the conspiracy to pin his death on the thieves, the changing of his heart definitely did help lots of people.
There ultimately was no mistake. Heck, you can argue that Okumara was harming more people than the other palace rulers (except Shido and maybe Kaneshiro), since he's completely aware he's working his employees way too much. Kamoshida affected a portion of a school's population, and Madarame only however many students he had. Okumara owns a very large company, so its incredibly likely there's a large number of employees being harmed here.
I'll agree with this, and add that even if he wasn't the culprit for the mental shutdowns, he did still request them, so he's responsible for a good portion of them. The game wants you to think that the Phantom Thieves lost sight of their original goals, but I think they had every reason to target Okumura.
If anything, I was completely fine with killing Okumura if it came down to it, considering all the people he likely killed indirectly through mental shutdowns, overwork and his greedy ambition. Then again, I was completely fine with killing Kamoshida for physical and psychological sexual abuse, Madarame for what can at the best case scenario be called the manslaughter of Yusuke's mother, Kaneshiro for being an actual abusive thug with all the implied crimes, Akechi for being a stone cold killer and Shido for all he did. The only antagonist that I felt sorry for was Maruki, I just think someone should come out and tell him that his ideal world meant giving power to a devious deity that wanted to control humanity through him.
@@OriginalGameteer I would say that he was the bishop to sacrifice. As working partners Shido knew how flawed Okumura was. And he knew that the thieves are always at flawed individuals backs. He sacrificed him to make the thieves wanted individuals in the real world. Of course, the police cant take people in custody for making things that basically hurt nobody. Shido took two birds with one stone.
Criminals would always sell out other criminals to save their own back. Like a dealer would sell out his boss to avoid prison and the drug ring would sell out the dealers before the police catches them.
Yeah, I can understand how abusing employees can be more abstract than the rape and murder all the others threaten you with, but I would've thought him selling his daughter would've been enough to show how evil he is.
“Truth be told, I had given up. I accepted that I was a zero...That my existence was meaningless. But I’ve learned. I may not be able to change the world, but I can change myself.”
Mishima’s confidants was definitely one of my favorites too.
I love the s.l. with unlikable personalities cause then you get to either understand why or just watch them grow(Mishima, Ebihara, council member in p3)
It's a good parallel with Maruki. Mishima becomes convinced that changing hearts and using the Metaverse can change the entire world for the better and his shadow is shocked when the Phantom Thieves don't take what he was always convinced was the easiest solution and trust him to change himself. Maruki holds the same belief, except until you literally shatter his conviction and force him to sober up he holds on to it no matter what.
1:48:30 Kaneshiro was significant because it was the first time they started branching out and helping a huge amount of people. Kamoshida was pretty big but it was overshadowed by being their origin, then madarame was more notorious but very small scale in his negative influence. Kaneshiro was removing a stain from an entire city.
Not to mention it escalates how directly they are ruining others' lives.
Kamoshida is a bully who had no direct hand in Shiho's jump, though he was more than happy to weasel out of responsibility for it and let others take the fall, no pun intended.
Madarame opportunistically let Sayuri die because he stood to gain fame and money from claiming her art. A sort of murder by inaction, but still not a death directly caused by him.
Kaneshiro meanwhile is entirely in control of a gang that presses students into becoming drug mules and doesn't think twice of kidnapping and torturing them in some fashion, if the deadline game over scene for him is of any indication.
@@ZorotheGallade Kamoshida was either beating her or sexually harassing her (most likely both). He probably was a big reason she jumped. Unless you mean he didn't physically shove her off
I disagree about Okumura being less despicable than the other Palace Rulers. Its heavily implied that Okumura is responsible for many mental shutdowns and psychotic breakdowns, particularly rival competitors and disgruntled employees. He admits that he is a client for Akechi's services.
Not only that, the problem is that the Phantom Thieves except for Ryuji were never shown being obsessed over gaining fame. The reason they even got involved with Okumura in the first place was 1) Haru and her situation and 2) him being their only possible lead to who's responsible for the mental shutdowns.
That, and his cognition of Sugimura looks and acts the exact same as the real one, implying that Kunikazu Okumura was fully aware of who Sugimura really was
Honestly I think the reaction to okunera’s crimes is disgusting
How brainwashed do you have to be to think that the guy who thinks people are his slaves to be used and disregarded when no longer exploitable
He’s the ultimate representation of capitalism and to top it off he was sending his Dwight to a place he knew full well was going to abuse her to the point the cognitive version of him said ge was going to rape her (in a round about way)
Plus he is pimping out his own daughter for business
After not liking the extra story content from Golden, the new stuff in Royal absolutely blew me away with how good it was.
Apparently it was also written by the guy in charge of writing the future Persona games. If they can match the same level of quality as the 3rd semester here, then I absolutely cannot wait for Persona 6.
"then I absolutely cannot wait for Persona 6."
You probably should. I hate to be a fun sucker, but Persona 5 was delayed time and time again until it was finally ready to be released (and it instantly became my favorite Persona game by far). I would expect a hypothetical Persona 6 to take just as much if not more time than P5 to release. Especially given how ATLUS is currently working on SMT V, I wouldn't be surprised if P6 came out anytime after 2024.
@@lildrawhub1025 the wait for P6 i dont think will be as long as the wait for P5 since with P5 they had to make a whole new engine and then figure out how to use it (Catherine was their practice run with it). They will probably use the same engine for the next game so the wait shouldn't be as long.
Yeah, knowing that the 3rd semester was written by the new guy in charge makes me super optimistic. Vanilla P5's writting was good for the most part, but the formula already showed some signs of fatigue (specially with the main plot). 3rd semester was such a surprisingly mature take on the themes of P5 and complemented the vanilla plot so well that it's impossible not to get excited for what's to come
@@lildrawhub1025 Actually Persona 5 needed to be remade from zero because of a Japan Tsunami, so they made the game be about Japan and Japanese society and they were working in a new engine
And the original idea for Persona 5 is going to be used in the game "project Re:Fantasy" from Atlus
I second this. Personally, I think Golden's extra content was kinda a mixed bag. It had really great content that expanded on the original, like the Jester Social Link with Adachi, but had questionable additions related to a certain new character.
But with Royal, I was amazed of how much they upped the game's themes in such an organic way.
1:46:54 - Funnily enough, in the Thieves Den there's actually some dialogue between the lady party members where they discuss how much they regret pummeling Ryuji after he saved all of their lives. I get the feeling this was added by the writers after seeing how much fans disagreed with that scene in vanilla P5.
Lol I understand why everyone was bothered by that scene but I always took it that at first they were just shocked to see him, and he got his butt whooped when he said Ann looked ugly while crying, over HIM lol
@@blvck1635 I think it’s just more of a “ we thought you were dead, you didn’t text, you just walked up nonchalant and flirted with Ann, assbeatingtime
It’s like a parent scolding their kid for being out late without contact, but ultimately they’re happier than they are angry, even if they show the anger
Did Royal ever give that same treatment to the way that Ann is sexually exploited by Yusuke in the Madarame arc, and address or change the dismissive way her teammates act about it?
It's extremely jarring the way that was handled, considering how it immediately followed the Kamoshida arc. It really did feel like P5 had several writing teams that didn't communicate nearly as much as they should have.
@@CheshireCad I mean you'd need to completely change Ann as a character, I always thought it was in extremely poor taste that she was the "hot anime girl" whose idea of rebellion is wearing a skintight red BDSM suit, use a whip as a weapon, and being named "Panther"
she's literally the one who's been sexually abused, just make Mako the hot one wtf
@@Arkain89 - Probably the simplest way to change her character is to make it so that Kamoshida never tried to have sex with her, but she does explicitly admit to having sex with several other guys her own age. But the entire school is gossiping that she's a total slut who's slept with dozens of guys, including Kamoshida.
This would make her "Actually, I don't care if I'm a slut" character arc actually make sense. It's a great message of sexual liberation and rebelling against the expectations of society. It just doesn't belong on a character who has nothing to do with sex.
Then, just make her consistently provocative throughout the story. Including the whole "nude model" infiltration being her idea.
Can we all take a moment to appreciate how creative and beautiful the visuals and music of Maruki’s Palace are? Like... that shit is *gorgeous.*
@FuckOuttaHere I think i still slightly prefer Sae's Casino but Maruki could easily top it on a good day
@Samira Honestly the only reason Marukis palace isn't number 1 is more personal in that im kinda dumb in puzzles so when i had to do that damn color puzzle i was just stumped. sae's palace had no puzzles and was just all up action to me
@@Joaquin-xq5wo I don’t have that much of a problem solving puzzles. But it feels pointless to me and probably one of the things I hate about the game. Maruki palace is decent but the 3rd semester frankly is shit. You literally have nothing to do at night, your confidants are all maxed out, and have to meet characters individually to get the awakening.
I absolutely agree with you.
@FuckOuttaHere futaba palace is the best for me. The music there slaps so hard
How I've felt about Akechi and Joker is that they're forcibly put into the opposite alignment than what they should be in SMT terms. Akechi is chaos incarnate, illustrated by Loki and his personality, but because of his life and the nature of his relationship with his father he desperately WANTS to be a fprce of Justice to garner respect and admiration. So he outwardly becomes a representative of Law.
Meanwhile Ren was always meant to be a symbol of what the Law should be. He's righteous, assisting a woman being assaulted before the game even begins, but because society's structured the way it is he's jailed for it. It's reflected in his Velvet Room, he was always meant to be outside the cells of the Velvet Prison yet forces outside his control had bound him there. He's Chaos because the current society views him that way despite his heart always being Law.
They reflect the entire point of P5: society's drifted so far away from what it SHOULD be that it has redefined morality to suit itself. "Kamoshida's a good teacher. Justice is a gamble; you're meant to do all you can to win no matter what. Shido is a righteous man." Even the God born of that society is Yaldabouth, a false God shaped and was shaped by the world.
Nice analysis
I disagree on joker being law. I mean fuck, the whole theme of the phantom thieves is rebellion and freedom
@@bruis1527 Yeah, Joker IS law. What do you think the Phantom Thieves do, if the LAW isn’t doing it? Bringing justice to the evil hearted. You proved the main comment right.
@@TakeoKurosawa HUH?!?!? Do you know stupid that sounds. A central main plot point of the game is REBELLING against society and THE LAW ENFORCEMENT and LIBERATING yourself. The whole point of the phantom thieves is not to punish bad people but to stop them from stopping other and letting people love their lives how they want to (literally the entire theme of Royal).That’s the most chaotic good shit Ive ever heard. On top of that, the big antagonist at the end of the game(Maruki) basically served as his law counterpart where he made his moral code of avoiding pain the absolute law in his own world.
@@TakeoKurosawa Law and Chaos does not mean "Good and Bad". Law is making the world however you want through the control of the people, while Chaos focuses on leaving everyone on their own and letting them fight for themselves, thus giving them true freedom. Royals ending is a perfect representation of this. Maruki is the Law side of the story while the phantom thieves are the chaos. One is trying to brainwash everyone so he can make his own "happy" world, while the other is trying to destroy that and give freedom to the people, but ruining some peoples hapiness in the process. None of them are good or evil, they're both morally grey, thats what the Law and Chaos Alignment is about in Megaten games.
About Sojiro, I have to disagree. Beginning his confidant at the very beginning of the game and have it continue until towards the end is part of what makes it so good. I don't think it would have such an impact on me if it started after Futaba's Palace.
Could have greyed it out like other confidants though
@@jmurray1110 They do. Iirc it locks at rank 4 until Futaba's change of heart
@@joaoassumpcao3347 not the only time it’s properly locked is during the mementos request that locks both of them
You can still do hangout session band it doesn’t tell you about the prevention of ranking up so you could waste a lot of time
@@jmurray1110 is fixed in royal, i'm currently playing and it locked in rank 4. I know cause i still haven't finished futaba's palace and the last hang out i did with him was in freaking madarames palace (literallly 3 days after the palace got un locked)
I hadn’t played royal at the times (actually in the middle of an advancement run) so was going purely on vanilla
Switch port is excellent @@luissaumeth8000
23:20 Merciless Mode seems like they treid to make Kingdom Hearts Critical mode , a mode where you die in 2-3 hits but you're also able to deal insane damage so its all about player skill in a action game , but in a Turn Based RPG that you can break the damage by overleveling and grind for insane good items and just money.
KH Critical mode in KH2:FM. KH3 Critical does not increase damage, and doesn't even scale Level 1 damage like 1FM and 2FM do.
Yep.
And in Strikers' Merciless mode, where you would EXPECT damage scaling to be done to avoid melee attacks being useless, they do BASICALLY NOTHING aside from make everything one-shot you and dump you with Incenses that you still have to grind. It's even more insulting because the game is an action RPG like Kingdom Hearts, so they could have easily tried to replicate the risk-reward Critical mode for Strikers.
I wouldn't say the increased damage lets it be all about player skill, it actually removes a lot of the skill as you now can skip phases and attacks, often bum rushing the fights and leading to victory being a complete steamroll with the enemy having little to no chance.
This is pretty much how I described it when someone asked me if its okay to play p5r on merciless. (they weren't aware you could change the difficulty at the time lol). Kh2 critical shows when you get to demyx's fight that its easy early on since hard difficulty you dont have all your abilities so demyx can be difficult for some people on hard but not on critical because of it. Persona 5 and especially persona 5 Royal unfortunately doesn't get harder endgame like kh2 final mix did since kh2 sorta catches up to you in specific endgame battles (still easy though. Unless you're playing ps3 version with no update. Then xemnas is an.. Interesting fight xD)
@@PathBeyondTheDark nah in kh3 the ability' Hidden potential' which is built into every keyblade form scales for lv1. You're also probably meant to use things like stat boost foods/keyblade forge systems to help scale .. i will also say the Kh1,5 fm ( original JP fm did not have zero exp) ''zero exp' has pretty wonky damage scaleing..... its not clear Damage storage was meant to exploited the way it is as it may be just a glitch. In fact people called it the damage storage giltch for a while but its more a exploit.
Though the 3 hit death rule against hard bosses i,e sephiroth is at least decent
Ahirun255 (the same person who found out about kh2 revenge values and the first serious kh crit and lv1 WR holders) was able to find out about damage storage via code
The end of an era
What do you mean, he hasn't covered the dancing games!!!
I mean, there are still all the Shin Megami Tensei mainline games and all the other spin-offs. So this could be only the beginning!
You know Nam, I love the way you structure the videos. They feel like you are just talking about concepts and stories with a friend as they come to your mind, but not in a way that is confusing. I think that's the best way to do that.
"brilliant but flawed" this is an apt description to like every game in the series lol
Now to sit back and relax for 2 hours and enjoy a Nam video.
Persona truly hasn't reached that perfection that SMT has yet.
@@sonicsucks2961 SMT is not remotely perfect either lol, literally no game/series is.
@@sonicsucks2961 Lmao SMT is in no way "perfect" either, please don't turn this into Persona vs SMT. It's old and drawn out and i've heard everything before.
@@zachlink308
If you wanna be wrong then so be it.
@@sonicsucks2961 I like both series so I'll stay winning champ.
Your final thoughts really are my thoughts exactly. It's a damn shame this game has the reputation that it has over a vocal minority of people. I've loved this game since I first played it, and it was such a great entree point for me and a lot of my friends into this amazing franchise, and I will always cherish it for that, as well as being a great game in it's own right. Keep up the good work Nam, and I look forward to whatever you happen to cover next whether it's the spinoffs, SMT, or something else entirely
I think another interesting aspect of Maruki's actualization was how he changed fates of Ann and Shiho. It seemed as if Kamoshida was completely omitted from reality, implying that Maruki deems some people unworthy of existing. Although maybe Kamoshida received that archer-painter's treatment?
I imagine it's not that he doesn't exist, but perhaps he never worked in Shujin as a teacher and perhaps he remained an athlete where it sounds like he was happiest.
@@lordofdarkness4204 I like that interpretation! Lines up well with how he altered Okumura’s life too. Makes me wonder how he might have changed the other palace rulers’ lives to maximize their happiness while sidestepping the negative influence they had.
god i love ryuji so much and im still SO upset how the game handled him at many places (beaten up after palace, constantly belittled, etc.), as someone with lots of similarities to him as a person its actually a bit upsetting lol
Same. It really feels like Ryuji gets a lot of shit from the people around him. Yeah, he gets caught up in the hype and wishes they could be public, he even talks without thinking and he ain't the brightest, but aside from Joker, I feel like Ryuji is the most willing to throw himself on the front lines, even put himself between his friends and a corrupt piece of shit.
The darkest moments are the most telling of one's character, and Ryuji showed himself to be ultimately selfless, determined, and kind... Which makes the moment he gets beat up by the girls all the more distasteful.
@@JoshtheOverlander Yosuke is still my favorite 'bro' character but Ryuji is a very close 2nd.
If he was the traitor, I wouldn't even complain
@@oiopquatro4846 I think that’d have really given the story of Persona 5 a real shot in the arm and take it to a dark place regarding the nature of bonds, how they change by the other person’s views on their standing with the others. You knew you know who was going to turn on you at Sae’s Palace and it wasn’t that shocking when it happened.
Ryuji pulling a Big Smoke on the other hand? That would have blindsided the players and remind them that the life of a Phantom Thief isn’t too far from that of a real world criminal when it comes to eroding bonds.
honestly i just found ryuji kinda mediocre.
I find it very interesting that ann, yusuke, and haru are said to be characters That didn’t get fleshed out initially, but get time to shine in persona scramble.
I totally disagree with Ann and Yusuke(Haru absolutely). But you learn about Ann's relationship with Shiho and Kamoshida. Yusuke knows that Maderame's a bad person but deep down can't hate him while also learning about the true origins of The Sayuri(not to mention he is just bursting with Personality).
@@kevinmay9151 I think the minor problem for them is that’s where it kinda ends for them. Ann and yusuke characters go stagnant after their respective stories. We’re not saying they don’t develop at all. Or they are bad But they do go to stand still after the kamoshida and madarame palaces. Unlike the others.
@@dakeouswoods Ann kinda does but not Yusuke imo. He is a voice of logic as Makoto is a voice of strategy(Makoto having a stronger presence as a PT). He calls out Ryuji and doesnt run into action without thinking. The personality is also a bonus hahaha.
Are they
Like haru isn’t because they just stuck her at the end and it’s common fir people to not know where she is and to just use joker because you need baton pass and in vanilla she’s worthless
Like seriously I didn’t even know you could view confidants on the map until I accidentally pressed the button on my second playthrough
I really like the evolution of the Persona series so far, from "me and the boys punching God in the face" to "me and the boys shooting God in the face"
Persona 6: Me and the boys German Suplexing God on his face
@@ShadowOfMassDestruction Holy shit, I hope martial arts is one of the new gimmicks of the next game. Where here it's thieves and guns, there it's warriors and martial arts. We can have a wrestler, legionnaire, modern soldier, an SS officer as the villainous party member, ninja, samurai, viking, knight, monk, etc., and they can have their own gimmicks, like maybe the monk is a cybernetic monk and the knight is actually quite dextrous and fights dishonorably... the possibilities are great. Also imagine a Luchador Persona party member lmao
Your first hint about Kasumi is that when she awakens to Cendrilon there isn't any blood when she rips off the mask. Showing she was still hiding her true self
The impact of Kaneshiro on the Phantom Thieves is that he's one of the main financial backers and money launderers for Shido's conspiracy and the Phantom Thieves taking him down winds up ratcheting up their threat and priority level from "Kobayakawa seems a bit worried about this, I'm sure he can use his own resources and look into it." to "This is a lot bigger than we first realized and we need to take some drastic action to try to flush them so we can crush this threat". From Futaba's palace on until Sae's palace, all Phantom Thief heists center in at least some way on Shido attempting to use, flush, and crush the thieves via increasingly escalated means; (Medjed threatening some cyberterrorism to force Phantom Thieves out into the open, using the Okumura incident to both murder a dangerous rival and turn public opinion on the Phantom Thieves by framing them for the assassination, and sending Akechi in to force the capture of Joker during the casino operation and pick off each member via assassination starting with Joker)
I don’t like the argument that Makoto is basically the leader of the Phantom Thieves seeing as there are a lot of cases in media where the leader of a team isn’t exactly the brains of the team, I think a good example of this outside of Persona would be within the Sly Cooper series.
Problem with Makoto is she’s also extremely good in like every other area
Like...to the point where she almost borderlines into Mary Sue territory
@@drasconboy6349 I disagree, Makoto isn’t good at everything but she’s shown to be very intelligent. The Phantom Thieves are a group that usually go through palaces using espionage tactics so of course Makoto would shine if she’s the strategist, however that doesn’t mean she’s the only member of the team that is very good at what they do.
@@dey6942 She’s also extremely physically capable
@@drasconboy6349 I guess you could say that but that literally goes for pretty much every other Phantom Thief who isn’t named Futaba. If you’re speaking about her martial arts skill specifically then i’d recommend you look at someone like Yusuke or Yoshizawa who are pretty adept with swordplay so I don’t exactly see what you’re getting at.
@@dey6942 Dude, I mean look at the way she’s portrayed
She’s by far the most intelligent member
She’s extremely capable in martial arts to the point where everyone commented on how adept she was
Unlike Yusuke or anyone else on the Thieves because they never openly comment on each other’s melee skills
Her only real flaw is that she’s somewhat socially awkward
Knocked it out of the park with this one. Your scripts are improving and so is the quality of your videos. Well done!
Soooo glad I went in blind for this game. There were so many moments where my jaw dropped or I screamed holy shit at the plots development.
Ikr? I also started this game blind. Somehow i managed to avoid any spoilers and played tis game at 2022 and im like "bloody hell, what a game! 10/10!"
I'd say there seems to be something missed here regarding Akechi and his relationship with the Law-Chaos axis and Yaldabaoth's "experiment".
Per the game's themes, Yaldabaoth's experiment was rigged, with him always intending to make the world his in some way. While I didn't really buy Izanami flipping on Yu in Persona 4 (and in my opinion, a much better resolution there would've been if upon learning of Izanami, who is still keeping Ameno-sagiri's terms, the Investigation Team just went after her proactively), here it makes sense, since Yaldabaoth is presented as expressly malevolent. Akechi wasn't a Law representative, rather Yaldabaoth's game from the start was between Reform (closer to Law, represented by Joker) and Revolution (closer to Chaos, represented by Akechi). If Akechi "wins" the experiment, then humanity is judged irredeemable and destroyed, the old corruption wiped away. If Joker "wins", then Yaldabaoth "rehabilitates" it by taking over. There is no outcome where humanity is left intact, and if it seems like the outcomes are too similar then that is because that is the point. Joker rebels against society, but the Change of Heart is Zelenin's Song off steroids for a reason. Similarly, the psychotic breakdowns may as well be temporary Delphinus Parasite infections. Ultimately, Joker and Akechi both follow the goals of one alignment under the "mask" of the other.
This shifts in the Third Semester, with Akechi becoming a straight-up, mask-off Chaos Hero in such a fashion that it actually makes me want to see alignment heroes be able to stay in the party after the alignment lock in mainline SMT, at least on Neutral.
And I had a completely opposite view on the painter->archer example. One moment in Maruki's Palace shows that he would prefer people to abandon dreams that they can't achieve. And so when Yusuke's classmate is distressed by his slump as an artist, the next day he's never been an artist. Maruki doesn't just take away free will directly, rather he takes away the continuity of the physical world and all of one's accompishments that depend on it, retconning one's very self where needed. This is also the main point where Akechi's argument against Maruki differs from that of the Phantom Thieves. Where the Phantom Thieves generally argue for personal growth, Akechi's argument is a pure Chaos one: in a world where the almighty God would change anything, yourself included, to make you happy, freedom cannot exist, and thus life has no value.
As for Maruki, he's a great antagonist and carries the Third Semester, but he has to be, a lot more so than the Palace rulers. And this is specifically because the Third Semester stands somewhat separate from the game's main themes of standing up to corruption. Shido is such a generic antagonist because that's all he needs to be, but a scene I really like in his arc is his advisors talking to each other after his Change of Heart. They're nameless, faceless goons who really bring into focus the fact that at the end, Shido's just one man in a corrupt system. And indeed, the ending leaves most of them unscathed, showing that there's no simple, one-step way to solve this and people can't settle down after one success. Maruki stands aside from that because he's just one man with a warped idea of happiness. He does ultimately lead people into sloth much like Yaldabaoth, but despite how much he's built up Yaldabaoth himself takes a backseat to Shido for the vast majority of P5, while Maruki implements his plan directly and immediately. Maruki's arc also deals with a more timeless theme of the role of pain in growth as opposed to the much more politically charged main body of P5. So while Maruki is great individually, he doesn't ruin Shido for me because Shido's just a different type of antagonist, a face to put on a faceless system rather than somebody whose antagonism stems from their individual motivations.
I don't necessarily agree that the ranks in confidants that don't really push the plot forward should be removed. I feel ranks like those just show you how these people act in a normal setting and it's just meant to get more used to them as people.
Agreed! This is actually why I really like Makoto and Ann’s confidants despite their ranks not all being about the same thing (directly, anyway. I do think every event in Makoto’s link serves the greater purpose of growing her will to carry on her father’s legacy of risking herself to serve justice; and every event in Ann’s link serves the greater purpose of guiding her toward the path of “growing her heart”.)
Mishima confidant was one of my favorite too. The only annoying thing for me is how the protagonists treat Mishima. Most of the conversation lines gives the impression that there was no friendship between them. Thats sad, since the problems Mishima faced are much more close to what the ordinary teenage must face.
This is the only JRPG in memory that made me laugh out loud.
Ryuji randomly saying “what’s bonking?” Out of nowhere. Takes a while for Joker to ask him what it means and he says he’s trying to start a new trend.
So random it took me by surprise and I laughed at the absurdity of it. Especially when he gets out down when he’s told literally no one will ever start saying that
P5 has some very inspired moments of humor. One of my favourites is during the Hawaii trip where Yusuke just... shows up in a conversation and starts talking despite the fact he was supposed to be in L.A.. I don't know what it is, but just how nonchalant it all is really gets me.
@@joaoassumpcao3347 yes, acting like it happens all the time…..and not a billion to one coincidence
one of my fave moments is the part where ryuji goes “my ass is cracked” and yusuke goes “ann, is yours cracked as well?!” genuinely gets a laugh out of me every time
@@saintsugoi and makoto's "... Isn't it supposed to be?" makes it better
Mine was "Ryuji is a Phantom Thief" and "The bill." dialog choices.
Honestly, Mishima seemed like a mirror for gamers that took their self esteem issues in a horrible direction. They see their work of gaming as some sort of link that they need to grip or else their life will fall apart. (Often times it can be something else, such as work or school). If/when it falls apart due to stress and guilt, they lash out and become horrible people. This confidant really teaches people that you need to seek help and love instead of becoming a terrible person. It's the only way to grow from abuse healthily and prevent yourself from becoming a bully.
Nah he's meant to show the dangers of living vicariously through someone else. Mishima is a loser who found minor fame in propping someone else up, so he leaned into it even when that person didn't want to be propped up by said loser, but mishima didn't care about how they felt, all that mattered was how HE felt, and that's bad.
@@JimMilton-ej6zithat IS bad, and he realized it. You didn't even needed to fight his shadow when you confronted him in mementos, he changed once he came into his senses. He even forgave his bully by standing up for him when he was getting mugged, which in turn he came out as a better person in the end.
It's like Style over Substance but actually good holy shit
right? and everyone who likes that video is like "p5 fans just hate anyone who disagrees with them" uhhh no. If you watch Zero Punctuation, Superbutterbuns spoiler video and shenpai you will find critisism against this game. These two videos are just the only videos that imply that p5 has flaws in their titles, and this one is actually backed by facts
and logic
and actual context
and Nam actually is capable of reading
and no superficial takes
and doesn't set up a high and mighty tone just to fall flat on it's face
and justifies this video being 2+ hours long.
And that mangakamen video that absolutely destroyed style over substance
@@TailsGuy72 A List Exists reacted to entire video and destroyed him, point by point.
Also I like the profile pic!
@@kevinmay9151 OOOOH, I gotta check that out.
I've Waited Four... No, Five Thousand Years For This Moment!
I've been asked why I like kasumi so much a few times and was never really able to answer it but after watching this video at least twice I now can articulate why. It's her fear of failure that I relate to most of my family has failed in some sort of way and it left a lasting impression causing me to overwork and overwhelm myself with negative thoughts/emotions causing severe depression making wish and in most cases act like those who I looked up to but with the help of my friends I learned to accept my faults and work on myself to be better than said family members. I see soo much of myself in her and it just elevates her character a lot more for me personally
I kind of disagree that Akechi is a character with conflicting traits. On a surface level, I can definitely understand what Nam says. However, I want to provide the idea that Akechi and Joker being Law and Chaos should be viewed as somewhat inverted, where Akechi is lawful evil (maintaining the status quo, held back and bound to their problems) and themselves serve as a self-example of the exact criticisms they have about the Phantom Thieves, although you need to do a bit of "reading between the lines". Akechi does not genuinely care about the law or due process, and because of this they criticize the Phantom Thieves not through their actions, but through the fundamental idea that they use their power without genuine permission or even transparency for those they supposedly serve. I prefer to view him as saying without saying (when you have context) "This power is profoundly dangerous and I'm the exact reason it is. The only reason the Phantom Thieves are justified is the power to be Phantom Thieves was given to them and not to more people like me."
Akechi being the law side and Joker being the chaos side, in my opinion, is intended to "flip" at a certain point, where Joker is rebellion (Chaotic good) and Akechi is systemic cruelty (Lawful Evil).
Great explanation
I never got lost in palaces, and P5R was my first ever Megaten game, I also never had trouble with a lot of the puzzles. I think that it really just depends on what you have played before, specifically genre wise
Can we take a moment to acknowledge that even Maruki is deep down a good person, he's still pretty intimidating.
Finally finished this! Persona 5/Royal has some flaws, just like anything else and they're mostly minor, but this is as perfect of a game to me as it gets, nevertheless. The highs are way too high to be clouded over by the bad moments, middle arc included. The cast have fantastic chemistry, the gameplay's very solid, and the story has nice and deep messages underneath its somewhat simple premise.
P5 got me into the one of the best series of games I've ever played, and I know I'll be coming back to them again and again. The characters feel real to me, and this was also great practice for my social skills, as someone with autism who's not very confident with strangers. Excellent video anyway, and I look forward to seeing you tackle the rest of the spinoffs in due time!
Hey aren't you the guy who did not undestand the plot of persona 2
I’ve seen many of your persona related content and have very much enjoyed it!
*Laughs in 5th palace boss*
@@priestofronaldalt what's wrong with it?
@@insertnamehere658 From a story perspective, too much is going on at once along with a poorly designed palace with, in my opinion, the worst boss in the game
This was a really great watch! Very entertaining and informative, and made me see Mishima in a new light.
Great video. I agree with most of parts especially on the third semester. The third semester is so good.
For me personally, Akechi's death hit hard in the original Persona 5, especially when Lavenza said that piece of dialogue. A showdown with Akechi was inevitable. No matter what Joker and Akechi do it was destined to turn out this way. It was sad to think about this was just a game for Igor and Yaldabaoth.
Incredible video as always, Nam. I always did appreciate your analysis videos because you go more in-depth about these games than anyone else while providing a good critical look at what the games are trying to do and what they succeed at and miss the mark at.
With that said, I'm glad I was finally able to see this video since it's by far been one of the most (if not THE most) anticipated video I've been waiting for. Looking forward to the next video!
I agree with you that Sumire becomes much more Interesting once the twist is revealed but I gotta admit, until that kicks in I genuinely hated how Atlus seemingly shoved this perfect character in my face... Polite, Cute, she just showed no flaws for the longest time and I just couldn't relate to her whatsoever... I couldn't buy her as a "real" character... I could kind of see where Maruki's story was going based on his social link and the things he was saying but the Kasumi twist was the real highlight for me Iin Royal
Agreed. I hated the forced story events especially when I was deep in the main story and focused on how I wanted to spend my days. After the twist I really started to care for even her design improved imo
I am absolutely astonished by the length of this review! Sure, the Persona 4 video was lenghty too but I thought it'd be a one-time thing due to the immense passion you have for that game.
So to see that you made another really long review is a genuinely pleasant surprise since you always manage to keep me interested in the subject at hand with your brilliantly structured reviews.
You give us your opinion on a product while also supporting those opinions with a lot of very good points!
This was VERY nice to watch! Well done, man! Excelsior!
Yusuke's Persona transformation STILL gets me because of THAT NAIL SCRATCHING
I didn't like Futaba's dialogue too much but the fact they captured her lifestyle really well and did an autistic coded character right I truly had a large emotional connection with her.
She also calls Mishima ugly, which automatically makes her the best character
One of the biggest problems with Goro Aketchi being the "Law representative" is that it leaves the Law perspective thematically empty. P5 consistently hints at the idea that, even if the Phantom Thieves use the heart-changing power for good, the existence/use of the power at all might be immoral or toxic. Aketchi is that perspective's figurehead. But because Aketchi ends up revealing himself to be cynical and depraved, it completely strawmans that entire viewpoint. The same thing is true of Sai Nijima to an extent. It isn't enough that she believes in applying the letter of the law above the spirit, she also has to be cynical about the concept of justice itself, symbolized by how she sees the court as a casino. The Phantom Thieves "disprove" the Law perspective, but only because all of its advocates are revealed to not really believe in it. As a consequence, no one expresses the Law perspective's most cogent points.
The flimsiness of the Law perspective, despite it being consistently hinted at, makes Persona 5 feel morally simplistic on replay and points towards P5's biggest flaw: it tries to do too much. P5 would have been a better game without the Law perspective, if it was shorter and more efficient. The topics P5 actually focuses on, it handles well: personal agency, how elders exploit their juniors in Japan's seniority-focused society, how we can convince ourselves to stay unhappy out of fear. But it's all the other stuff it doesn't have time for makes everything feel more mixed.
And that's not to mention the length. This may be anecdotal, but me and a lot of the people I've talked to ended up being a lot less positive on the game because of the length. P5's ending was epic, but that feeling was undercut by the exhaustion of it coming after a nearly 100 hour game. Hell, everything I've heard about P5R sounds great, but after playing through P5 twice, I just can't bring myself to play it.
I really love P5 (I played it twice after all), but weirdly enough, I find it more disappointing than most games. With all the production values and heart it has, it could have easily been a masterpiece. But it falls just short for me.
As a prosecutor myself, I agree with many of your points, but I think that oddly enough, the true ending and the actions of the PT somewhat vindicate the concept of law.
The PTs act to reform criminals and instill in them true appreciation for the heinous nature of their actions (something that is somewhat lacking in our justice system, though this could be due in part to the minimization of bad acts that we're prone to). The end result is a full blown confession and desire for punishment/atonement. What law enforcement official wouldn't love that?
The final dilemma re: Maruki also has very interesting implications for law. In Maruki's perfect world, humans aren't wounded in a manner which causes them to hurt others (and to a degree, law ought to strive to prevent harm to it's citizens). Repudiating this perfect world and disbanding the PTs means that in Persona's Tokyo, society must rely on the law to prevent crime and punish/reform criminals. Maruki is meant to teach us that a world in which people are free to walk their own path with all of its attendant ugliness, and in a sense, this vindicates law by proxy; an imperfect world where the law (in theory) stands between society and the twisted desires and actions of some is preferable to a world where law is obsolete because of Maruki's actions.
OK, so with respect to Akechi, he represents the Justice arcana in the game which, in tarot, is supposed to represent truth, justice, and all that good stuff, so his being the figurehead for the argument that what the phantom thieves are doing is wrong makes sense, and I would agree that his turning out to be a major antagonist would strawman that argument _if_ it wasn't for the fact that, in tarot, the cards can be "reversed" giving them the opposite meaning, which in the case of the Justice card would be dishonesty, unfairness, and a lack of accountability.
Sae is representative of the Judgement arcana, which is about self-evaluation and reflection, and is the only one of the arc-villains whose treasure the PT's don't actually steal and goes through a change of heart on their own. Japanese courts have a 99.8% conviction rate, so it's only natural that Sae views the court as a casino because "the house always wins"
I do agree with the point you make about the length. I've just finished my first playthrough (PC release) and felt utterly drained and just wishing it would end by the time I got to the last stage (I didn't get the true ending), which really wasn't helped by the fact that the first and last 4 or 5 hours just felt like an interactive cutscene.
It's a good game, I enjoyed it, and it's definitely up there in the list of top JRPGs, but it's not the masterpiece that it's been hyped up as.
I think you articulated part of the reason I don't quite get the love Akechi received after Royal updated him. Speaking as someone who only has experience with Royal but has seen videos on people explaining how it fixed Akechi because of his confidant and the third semester I didn't quite get it. Even when he had a facade I liked Akechi and agreed with his point about the Phantom Thieves method being questionable. It kind of devalued free will and I also thought the story became too juvenile in how it handled the moral ambiguity of their actions especially because all their targets were "shitty adults" who had little nuance. This is why Futaba's palace is my favourite as an aside. Anyway I would tell myself the main characters are all teenagers so I can't expect a nuanced perspective but it still felt too simplistic. Also this was exacerbated by the length because you were tackling this subject with little nuance the same way again and again and it all ends with a literal deity that represents the shitty society that enabled the aforementioned shitty adults. Now it just devolves into beating it up completely murdering any nuance left in the matter.
For future persona games I hope they drastically decrease the game length but have multiple full campaigns that are accessed at the beginning of the game depending on the player's actions. Like have an end goal for the entire campaign decided at the beginning and have several 30 hour gameplay chunks unique to that story route. The stories should be smaller scale as well and maybe if you complete all the routes you can unlock the true final boss where you inevitably fight a deity.
I kinda agree with some parts. I would have liked to see a law subplot more developed, indeed. But i see it as the game was about the themes it was, and mostly deal with, and the law and the system implications has to be there, if only because they had to be recognized when the actions of the characters are this public. I think that we still have nuance enough through Sae, specially after her Palace, where we see someone struggling for law and justice in a very unfair and corrupt scenario. I would have liked a more developed take on vigilantism, as it came pretty natural to the plot (Persona 5 is, after all, a superhero story in a lot of ways), and i am kinda grateful for Royal that at least some of the essence of the conflict was present with the final antagonist, someone who completely remake reality with his power, with absolute disregard for individuals or collective opinion, law, or rights. Maruki is the Phantom Thiefs, but without all those moments where the Phatom Tthiefs debate the justice of their actions, if their motivations is right, if they are legitimized to change people minds. Regardless of Akechi being false at the end, he put issues in the table about the justice of using such powers to do "your own justice" without supervision, the characters deal with the idea through parts of the story, and the ending does present the scenario of someone with the power to "change" people, not holding himself accountable to any law or authority, as he is "the savior", above those things. So i see the point you bring, but i dont think the game dealt with it badly or anything.
They really should have made the villains more understandable, to give a bit of more nuance to them, thats true. They even though about that, as apparently in Royal, they wanted to introduce flashbacks about the villains in the palaces, but dropped the idea in production. I think some things of that still remains. Sad, because thats certainly something the game lacks, i feel. Together with the spirit of rebellion, the idea of greater understanding of how things came to be this way, to not repeat mistakes and become greater.
Shido represents "the great man of history" archetype and how people will blindly put their faith in a populist candidate who promises the world to his constituents while being profoundly corrupt and only interested in strengthening his power and making Japan a great world power again
He's a pretty brutal critique of Shinzo Abe and the NDP
Is it really a "brutal critique"? Because none of this really feels that scathing or targeted.
@@JayAreAitch @J H
It is
The posters in his dungeon literally mirror Shinzo's abes campaign posters. Line for line.
Shido's new party mirrors the NLDP. He wants to make Japan a country others bow down too...
The critique is extremely on the nose, especially if you're familiar with Japanese politics
@@PKRockin7 wow really that's cool
Shinzo was Japan's best president lmao
1:23:55
In all honestly, I quite liked the way Sae revealed who was your next target.
I enjoyed knowing the target, but not knowing why we're targeting them, how we go to know them, what they did and such.
Edit: OH HEY THE VIDEO WAS RELEASED ON MY BIRTHDAY YAYAYAYAY
same I always looked away when she revealed the targets so it'd be more of a surprise to me when he got more shown
I didnt because you spend a good amount of time before entering the palace finding out about the guy, as soon as you hear hes the target from sae it all goes to waste
Great video man! I can definitely see how far you've come with your scripting abilities, and a lot of your hot takes I agree with a lot! Keep up the good work, and I'm excited for whatever videos you have in store for this channel next!
I can’t wait for the day Persona 5 Royal will become nostalgic to me.
You pour your heart and soul into these videos man. Out of everything over the Persona series (or any game I dare say) I've seen on UA-cam, this is absolutely the most thorough, deep, and well done overview of the game. Well done.
To be fair theres no such thing as "perfect game."
Perfection doesn't exist, that's why we strife for it.
Jack bros would like to have a word with you
i think the reason kaneshiro especially has no lasting power is because he’s just not personally tied to any of the main cast in a meaningful way, while every other palace ruler is in some form or fashion. he really does just kinda feel like filler content to get makoto in the party before you get to futaba’s palace
probably doesn’t also doesnt help that his palace feels significantly shorter and less engaging than the others
I do agree with the perspective on Shido as a villain. He feels less like his own character and more of an embodiment of the corruption the Thieves fight against. An amalgamation of terrible personality traits does provide a villain you can definitively root against, but can hurt any interest you have in them without a more in-depth look at how they view the world or what drives them.
Been looking forward to this. P5 was my first Persona game and I’m looking forward to SMT5. Many thanks:)
Same.
This video came out at the perfect time since I just finished Royal today.
This feels like a call out post to the “persona 5 : style over substance “ video and I love it
Thanks for posting this. Gave me some ideas for my own analysis.
Great video, I'm currently on the Mishima part. Mishima (much like Yosuke from P4) to me really feel like a character meant to feel right at home with the player. Sure the protagonist is a self insert and you supposedly engage with the activities you want and bond with the confidants you want. However the protagonist is always successful, no matter what. Mishima and Yusuke on the other hand try to act the same but end up falling short whatever they do. They try to be special they want to be more they engage in various things on a surface levels because it is "cool". Those characters are far closer than the player than the self insert can ever be, they are clumsy they are often made fun of but they try to do the best they can.
I think the reason why Mishima gets hate on by the fandom is because they see themselves like Mishima would be in real life and they hate it.
Low key fax
Meanwhile I see Mishima in myself and am willing to sympathize with him even when he gets pretty bad briefly
oh wow while i do like mishima, i think it´s dumb to generalize why a person wouldn´t like character
Thank you for making this. I just finished my first playthrough of the game a few days ago. I couldn't agree more with the points you made about what is good and what is bad about the game. Your script was excellent and you spent the perfect amount of time on each topic to cover it fully but not overdo it. Mad respect 🙌
Great video bro! Im only half way thru it but i intend to finish it allthe way
Love it, great work! Although the poppy Sonic music while describing Ryuji's dramatic confidant was... weird, lol.
I believe you got completely the wrong idea about Akechi and Shido. It's not so much that Akechi represents "law" just because he's placed along a narrative mirror line to Joker. It's more that he represents completely unbridled anarchy as opposed to a righteous revolution. Akechi is shown to be everything the Phantom Thieves must not - but absolutely could - become. Shido meanwhile is a very weak antagonist because, while he is the instigating incident for Joker's role in the story, virtually everything about him except for his existence as a real human being was fabricated by Yaldaboath. Before Yaldaboath awoke in the depths of Mementos and took over the Velvet Room, Shido was an extremely minor political actor of an insignificant constituency. Probably in the same town/prefecture as Joker. It's a little unclear as to whether their first meeting is before or after Yaldaboath's interference, as Shido's a complete jackass crook with or without that stuff.
Long comment, I guess, but I really wanted to highlight what I thought was worth considering about your criticism regarding some parts of the characterization.
i've waited for this long ever since i watch your p3 & p4 analysis
It was actually thanks to Maruki that I was able to work on my Final in Creative Writing. I’m the story a friend wanted to make a perfect world like Maruki but instead he stoled the desire of people with hate (racist, criminals, homophobia, and criminals). However when he steals the desire he controls them to be better people. His friend has to either agree or disagree with him, I made two endings one in which he agrees and one in which he disagrees and they have to fight. The one in which he disagress is one I personally like but I made both ending cannon because it’s based on what would you do in that situation.
Wouldnt that be counted as plagiarism tho?
@@ridleyroid9060 I don’t know. I didn’t steal the names and I was just inspired by what Maruki did.
@@ridleyroid9060
That’s like saying all heroes who ever existed copied Superman, because Superman is the most iconic hero
This is basically Strange Journey's Law/New Law ending so I would agree almost immediately with the guy who removes hatred. Maruki doesn't necessarily specify that he removes hatred and racism but that he makes everyone so happy that they will not want to do anything else besides bask in the world he created.
Oh shit, my desires
I literally subscribed to your channel hoping you'd make a video like this, the day right before you dropped this video. Perfect timing.
Dude I struggle to sit through a 40 minute episode of TV yet here I am watching this 2+ hour analysis with no struggle to pay attention at all. Easily one of the best reviews Ive ever seen; just the way you word your thoughts makes each second seem integral. Job well done man
Now this was an amazing analysis and overall review with in-depth thoughts and critique.
"I've been waiting for this" is something Akihiko would totally say
Been looking fwd to this for awhile, love listening to these analysis videos as I excersize! Love your content broski, keep it up!
You've done a great job here chief, I knew you'd do the game justice with your analysis and honesty, and I certainly wasn't disappointed. I don't agree with you on a couple of your points, but it'd be stupid to think we share the exact same mindset in that regard.
The only complaint I have is the mispronunciation of some of the names of characters, like Ryuji's last name, Chihaya and Kaoru. Those are just minor though and don't really get in the way of my overall feelings towards your viewpoint. You've outdone yourself today chief, and you should be proud!
I hope the tips I gave you proved useful aswell (The Sae battle phase skip, and the dart minigame trick).
Can't wait to see what you put out next! Keep on keeping on brochacho!
Actually he did pronounce Ryujis last name correctly it's the game that got it wrong
@@Pokegirl3515 According to Atlus, the Japanese team informed the American team to pronounce it the way it is in the English dub of the game, so the one in game is by all accounts the correct pronunciation
Nam's pronunciations have come a long way!
As much as I like the state P5 was in when it was finished, I find it incredibly interesting that it could've been much darker, or at the very least, much different.
The very first teaser we got for the game was that "you are a slave, want emancipation?" screen with the chairs. Theres something so weird and alluring about that trailer to me, compared to Persona 5's lively and youthful feel, it feels cold and devoid of life. I went back a couple weeks ago and watched it again and even thinking about it now gives me chills.
Even looking at things like Morgana's beta design is cool as hell and I find myself wondering more about what the game *could've* been instead of what it actually ended up being. Like the Persona 4 drafts where Yukiko and Dojima were gonna be villains.
That chunk of text had absolutely nothing to do with the video, I just find it and game betas/cut content in general fascinating.
I personally blame Persona 4 for this. Before P4, every Persona game tackled serious, sometimes dark, plots and themes. Even Persona 3, which had tons of cheerful moments here and there, had it's own share of equally dark moments. Ever since Persona 4 came, the series changed its tone drastically. Sure, P4 might have a dark hook with its Murder "Mystery", but it's literally the only thing that's somewhat dark in the whole game. Everything else is tinted in this rose colored filter filled with compassion, self love and friendship. It got even worse in Golden. Call me edgy, but I was honestly puking skittles at how bright and cheerful the game was that I quit little after you get access to the mall (It didn't help that I didn't like Chie's new voice actor. I miss my og tomboy). But given that P4 is Atlus golden hen that keeps on giving, they want to replicate it again so of course deviating too much from it might be a risk in their eyes.
@@sirbruno95 yep edgy
@@oreotaku4017 And yet, I agree with him. Perhaps a Persona game shouldn't just handle the meaning of understanding others and their own struggles, but also understand that one's own self truly comes first and foremost, and selflessness can easily be the path to damnation
@@kichiroumitsurugi4363 well see that’s the thing Persona isn’t really built like that. Even the original 3 games, as dark as they could be still push positive messages with bonds and their relation to ones true self. If the new director wants to explore darker/heavier themes, which if P5R’s third semester is any indication they will, doesn’t mean they need to make the entire game bleak and cynical. Let Persona be the lighter toned spin off of the MegaTen series it was supposed to be and continue to show atlus support for the darker mainline SMT or interest remaking/rereleasing their other dark toned games like DDS.
@@oreotaku4017 I feel like Devil Survivor is a case of bringing the best of both worlds
Let's be real, Persona 3 Sun social link is pretty much flawlessly
Even nam didn't talk much about it, it's very emotional
I think the reason for p3 being the strongest story(at least imo and what seems to be the general consensus among persona fans) is that a narrative about death is very hard to top, because that is ultimately what controls our lives. this is why I like p5 story because I understand the need to have new stories themes, even if it wasn't perfect, it was all around solid, there were some high and low points.
@@kevinmay9151 yep while the fandom.. It's horrible :P
Being in the end game of Persona 3 hurts the soul so hard, maxing Sun and going back to the bench in March to find his mother there just makes me start bawling
@@kevinmay9151 disagree. Premise matters very little. P5's problem is not that its premise isn't as good, but its poor execution. Probably partially a result of being rewritten too many times over its drawn-out production, but also partially the fact that Persona doesn't have any great writers.
@@kevinmay9151 I definitely understand your point about them switching things up. Ngl P3 and P2 have very strong and compelling stories. I hope P6 has more of a mature vibe, with a whole different story template (no high schoolers) lol
Wonderful and very enjoyable video, I have been waiting for this. I really appreciate you bringing light to some characters or aspects that I see as being overshadowed by the community's emphasis on the waifu wars, character quirkiness, or annoyance towards a character because of a part of their personality's such as Ryuji's obnoxiousness. Especially in your confidant section I am glad that you were able to touch on Mishima's struggle and relatability as well as Yusuke's and Haru's development within their respective confidants. Overall amazing video man, thank you for it.
And yet he falls in line with people about Morgana, how interesting.
Love the video P5R is one of my favorite games I have ever played and you do a great job Nam going over it and its themes. Just wanted to quickly add my feelings on the whole law Akechi theme. I personally viewed it as while joker wants to do things to generally be good and beneficial he still is changing the status quo. He can be viewed as the chaotic half because through his actions society and people go through drastic changes. In contrast to Akechi who while doing heinous acts for self-purpose he actively isn't putting any effort into changing things. His facade only reinforces those parts and would rather everything stay the same while furthering his agenda. Just wanted to add my 2 cents and love the video!!
I just finished P5R on Switch. My first time playing through the game, and I went through them in a similar order that you did. P4G, P3P, P5R. This is officially one of my favorite games of all time. I have been looking forward to watching this video for quite sometime since I watched both your other reviews after finishing those games. I can't wait for Persona 6!
Amazing video as always Nam! I love your in depth content, I have all of your analysis videos downloaded in a playlist, can't wait to see more! :D
"but flawed" can be applied to literally any piece of fiction ever created.
Yeah, I don't get why people say that
@@BitchChill maybe it's to point out that the work in question has some more glaring flaws than others.
Tis the point of the video friend
31:37 "I can imagine that you were expected to find these shortcuts so that when you sent the calling card you had an easier way to get back to the treasure [instead of fast traveling to it]."
By accident, on my first play through of Persona 5 Royal (which was also my first ever Persona game) I completely did not see the last safe room in Kamoshida's Palace. That meant that when I sent the calling card I had to manually travel from the Tower Safe Room to the treasure, with the security level at maximum. I can say from experience that doing this was very annoying and took all the fun out of the "heist", instead replacing it with stressful tedium.
While I agree making the player manually reach the treasure after sending the calling card could be interesting and enjoyable, it would require redoing how the security level/shadow spawning system works for that circumstance. It seems like Atlus either could not figure out a balanced way of changing that, or couldn't find the time to work on it, and instead allowed us to fast travel there.
It would not, because in my experience the security level works exactly how it did before. Ambush a shadow, kill it, the palace security goes from 99% to like 75%.
Thank you for these amazing analysis videos on games in the Megaten series! I only just recently discovered your channel with your SMT IV video (since I want to get into SMT and have been debating Nocturne HD or V, completely ignoring IV, which I own), and your videos don't disappoint! I especially appreciate your analytical lens on the Confidants and their stories, because it helps me remember and appreciate their nuances if available.
I will say, personally, I'm surprised that the adult confidants in P5, at least Vanilla, are all so great. I didn't encounter a single adult confidant I thought was straight-up bad, and ended up loving most of them!
A big point I am glad to have picked up on in this video was the confidants like Makoto's, ones I did enjoy but never really thought about too much when it comes to a storytelling perspective. It never dawned on my that her entire confidant is spent revolving around her new friend and trying to impress her rather than her own character. I love this critique.
You pretty much hit the nail right on the head with nearly everything you said in this video. Persona 5 Royal, personally, is my absolute favorite game of all time. There has yet to be another game that connects with me as much as P5R did, hell even the original P5 clicked with me. You did the game's story and characters so much justice in this video. It has its flaws like you described, sure, but in my opinion, the game's highs heavily outshine the lows.
Fantastic video, was worth the wait and had my attention for the entirety of watching it.
I'm sorry...people didn't like Mishima? Ya'll crazy, that boy is a gift.
Man, great job, I think this is your best video so far, you kept me hooked two hours straight and that rarely happens to me. I think there's only one thing that you missed here (unless I forgot about it, in that case, oops), and it's the presentation. This game is darn beautiful, specially animation and art-style wise. One of the reasons that kept me playing even if the game wasn't that challenging is the visuals in combat. The UI combined with all the flair the visual effects have make P5 a joy to the eyes, or at least to my eyes. This game got me into Persona and SMT and despite its flaws (which I accept, the game is not perfect) it's one of my favourite games ever. Regardless, I'm currently playing through P3 and Nocturne, so I can discover this franchise as a whole. Anyways, fantastic video, you have made the fantastic analysis that I was waiting for.
I actually really appreciate the lower difficulty. On my 1st playthrough easy mode gave me what I thought to be a comfortable amount of challenge because I am not at all familiar with RPGs. Now that I've learnt the mechanics I'm a lot better but it feels like it was made for people who are less familiar with RPGs.
Same here, I love these games but having to replay a 30 min bossfight from the beginning after dying just ruins the experience for me
Welp what I liked about Royal is that they kept the challenges fresh and interesting. The third semester to me was literally like
Oh? You thought it was too easy huh? Now you’ve gotta utilize baton passes and your hardest hitting attacks to beat Azathoth!
@@thelegendaryace1395 Just use INO man. Even in Merciless, I really didn't expect that ATLUS would make a very OP attack that could 1-hit every boss (Technically 3 hits for 1 action).
@@pvtkandahar7267 technically P5 is not SMT game. But the sentiment is understood.
LETS GOOOO been waiting for this!!
Loved this video. i was really expecting you to bring out the personal changes maruki helped the gang see. like ryuji wanting to actually achieve his dreams himself and so on with the rest of them. as ive seen in many comment sections "in P5 vanilla they grew as friends but in P5 royal, they grew as people" that had such a impact on me and my take on this wonderful semester. but i understand this took ages so i give this video a very high Pancake outa 10.
Ah yes! Finally - a full persona compendium.
Till P6 comes out
@@maskedgamerjoker6148 November 2024
Or until he finishes the spin-off games
This was the perfect game to find last year.
Oh, you know I gotta make some popcorn for this one.
I think it's nice that you commented on Persona 5's popularity and how its fanbase has had its impact on people's perception. I played and loved Persona 5 back when it came out but over the years the online cycle and discourse around it just burned me out and I distanced myself a lot from it. Recently on a Persona binge I finally came back and started up P5R and all of my apprehension towards it just melted away and I remembered how fond I was of the game. It's just interesting how a community can have that kind of impact on how people perceive a game and I do agree, hopefully after some time everyone will be in agreement at how good this game is. Been binging your videos through my long work days and always love your angle and the quality you put into these.
I really disagree about the insta-kill. This perk only serves to make the game better and IMO removing it would make the game, and grinding absolutely unbearable.
It only actually activated for me in the very final palace, and I personally didn't have a problem with it. And for mementos? Omg, grinding is actually kinda fun, and doesn't require me to stay in the metaverse for 5 hours just to level up and get some money.
Not having this ability would only serve to make the longest game in the series even longer.
i love this video so far, ill come back to watch the rest once im done with the royal content!
Been waiting this video for a while after finishing P5R. Thanks
ngl before i played persona the way the fandom talked about mishima made me think he’d be annoying but i actually love him and his story so much
I'm wondering if some of the Mishima hate comes from the fact that the game gives you so many dialogue options that are mean spirited towards him. Almost like Atlus themselves singled him out as the one you find annoying. And it sort of worked I guess?
I'm not a huge fan of the character, but your analysis has helped me see him in a bit of different light at least.
Basically everything that you talked about I 100% agreed with. I absolutely love this game and am glad it was the best game I could’ve started with for getting into the Persona series, and probably a lot of other people too and can’t wait to see what Atlus does with the future games. And I honestly would love to see you do an analysis video on P5 Strikers after this if at all possible because this video was great!
I love how you had to put a disclaimer on THIS video.
Persona 5 fans who haven't played any other games in the series really will try to tell you that it's still better than the rest