Why it's so hard to make money in music. (And what to do about it.)
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- Опубліковано 18 бер 2022
- Want an honest chance of making a living in music or music production? You have to stop approaching it with a 20th century mindset.
Music and studio production is a participant sport, not a spectator sport, says Justin Colletti.
Here's what that means, and the 5 ways to make an income off of music.
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Also really appreciate the peacefulness of the videos. Literally watch all these in the background at work so really appreciate that you don't have tons of sound effects edits and music throughout it
Was just thinking the same thing, love the vibe Justin
So true. Love his format.
Just want to say thank you for making these. You're incredibly helpful for us isolated people out here
This is brilliant-- I think you're absolutely right about society and music
Very insightful Justin! You translated into clear words and examples something most of us “felt” but couldn’t explain. Brilliant I would say!
Really needed to hear this today thank you ❤️
thx justin! quality content as always!
Dude.. you are throwing it down man.. I knew you were smart of course but I didn't know you were such a deep life thinker, this was so friggin helpful for me, thank you so much!
So awesome to hear. Thanks for tuning in and subscribing! Glad to have you listening.
-Justin
Lots of really insightful points here. Thank you!
Very interesting and precise perspective. I appreciate your videos.
Excellent video! Well thought-out and articulated.
Thank you, that was really insightful, especially in a time I am looking for ways to diversify my income streams.
Outstanding insight. This one really hit me having grown up in the 90s.
Loved this! God Bless!
Great food for thought. Thanks for posting.
Thank you!
Excellent Podcast, really enjoyed this, you make some really interesting points and have really re enforced some thoughts I had burbling in the back of my mind, sometimes hard to hear your own thoughts in this barrage of social media.
Your podcasts are always informative and wise, today it's even very philosophical, I really loved it and it made me think a lot! I'm glad I took your mastering demystified class and sent you a few songs to master. Of course because the class and the masters were brilliant (highly recommended!) but also because... I participated to something bigger than me.
Wonderful to hear Thomas! Thanks so much.
-Justin
This video really is mind blowing for me. Thank you for the new prospective. I feel, that music and I, are going to have a healthier relationship moving forward.
Awesome to hear! Thanks for the comment Seth.
"healthier relationship" is a great definiton. we should stop acting like music is our toxic partner that all our complexes can find a way through it.
You're practicing what you preach right here in all your videos as you're selling courses as a teacher and promoting your sponsors.
True story. It works! Works for audio engineers, works for musicians too. My personal streams of income are:
-Mastering
-Mix Coaching (Live private and group sessions)
-Courses
-Sponsorship
It earns me a good living. The only stream mentioned that I don't really do myself is the patronage model, but that's totally valid as well. Might start it sometime.
If I focused more, I could almost certainly narrow down the streams to just two (mastering and courses) and do just as well, but I like this blend for myself.
It's a LOT of fun-and very inspiring for me-to interact with people live in coaching sessions. And I actually really like working with brands, finding out what compelled them to make something new and useful, and helping them tell the story of what makes their creations unique and interesting.
I consider giving up those two streams occasionally to free up more time and practice even more jiu jitsu, but I just can't bring myself to do it :-)
Here's to finding out what works for you!
-Justin
Amazing view! Thank you
My evolution- guitar teacher-nightclub musician-casuals musician- self-produced indie recording and touring musician- synch licensor-streaming seller
Check my comment out Chuck, I hear you loud and clear
You're a legend man
Great video!
Heard this on Spotify while I was working out, and I liked it very much so I thought I'd come here and leave a comment.
Thanks for talking about this topic, really appreciated the perspective. I think most of us knew about this to a certain extent, but I really liked the way you framed this whole topic and gave us a very holistic bird's eye view on the music industry as a whole throughout history, and why it is not necessary to be SUPER FAMOUS to be able to earn an income from music, and that earning income from music has to be more than just the music while still having the music as the core. It is true that nowadays with the global market being more and more saturated, it would be quite natural for music to fall back to its regional origins, because after all, music is best enjoyed physically as well, and human beings always long to have in-person encounters with music, be it in a church or in a bar or a club.
Thanks again, I'll be listening to this a few times just to make sure your message sinks deep in my thoughts.
Awesome to hear! Thanks so much for the comment 🙏
You can also email us at podcast [at] SonicScoop.com and if you ever want to give us a review on the podcast platform of your choice, it’s greatly appreciated.
Best wishes in your journey!
-Justin
Excellently explained with very relevant examples.
Another way of helping this channel grow it's audience: click on big (in views) videos of other channels, theme related. This is a kind of linkage for the youtube algorythm and can determine what videos will be recommended :))
Nice podcast Justin.
That jujitsu and boxing example was a great example 👍. So true.. I liked that.
And then the UFC comes along....
Can't agree more. It's been more than 10 years since I started to compose, to mix music. I've played guitar for more than 22 years. Most of my incomings are from teaching.
You are significantly smart! Thanks!
Cool philosophy stuff
This is brilliant Justin....I often opine about how "fame" being wrapped up in music is a bizarre thing, and is really not the same as music. Fame can be profoundly deleterious to boot....Your video is quite liberating and insightful...thanks! Wow, participatory sport...that sounds like more fun anyway 👍
Awesome to hear it resonated Michael! Thanks for the comment and hope to see more of you around :in the future :-)
-Justin
@@SonicScoop I learn lots here Justin...thanks for all the great content and insights!
I didn't know you were a fellow Granite Stater. I myself am a refugee from Massachusetts who fled over the border 3 decades ago :)
have not yet listened, just wanted to ask - do these not get upload to other podcast platforms anymore? wondered this a few times recently
Yes! They’ve lately been coming out the next day on all audio only platforms.
good, sober commentary.
I'm starting to make music and I don't know how to get paid and this video kinda helps but still super confused now that I've watched this
Try this one, it should help simplify things: ua-cam.com/video/sCyCLF6CQXM/v-deo.htmlsi=HkD2HbU9vNBQbMlE
Let me know if that helps!
-Justin
teaching
Great topic! Well worth discussing.
I was born in 1970. Music was “in the air” in the 70s and early 80s. On the whole the excitement for music in America has fallen way off. Why did that happen?
The main reason music was so meaningful for people in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s is that it was almost all the result of political freedom. That “blip” of time was more free than most other periods in history.
Think of all the ways freedom affects your life. It puts a spring in your step.
America has been moving away from freedom and the sanctity of individual rights for decades now. The slow loss of freedom is a major cause in music becoming less valuable for people.
There’s are plenty of related issues. I agree with a lot of your points. Thanks, Justin. 🎸👍
A very interesting take Lance! Thanks for the comment. I'll think on it.
-Justin
Cool. It’s a maze of a topic but important.
Another thing that’s happened is technology has outrun the soul. Modern man doesn’t have much interest in the soul which is a terrible development. I personally think of the soul like Aristotle does in his book “On the Soul.” I’m not religious but religions are at least concerned with the soul. Mankind seems to be trying to enter a mechanistic age now-that’s why people have gone for so much computer-based music on a grid.
Cheers, Justin. 🎸👍
You always got random bunch of diff monitors in the background, but what I'd really like to know if which set of monitors are your number ones.
Right now I have the Ex Machina Pulsars up. Absolutely lovely. Going to do a video about them soon.
-Justin
In the past music wasnt siold cause It's wasnt recorded(The thechnology was not there yet). Then in the golden years It was sold so there was a lot of money in it. Than technology changed again with file sharing and now streaming so It became cheap. Of caurse taylor swift doesnt sell much- you can get it for free. I dont know many people who make music but I dont know anybody who doesnt listen to music while driving jogging. People dont listen less to music they listen to it more because its available everywhere on their phones. I dont think that the ratio between spectators and participents changed Its just free to use now so why would people pay for it?
How much do you want for a mentorship per hour ? Im quite interested in mentor.
If you are interested in coaching calls with Justin, please email him directly at justin [at] sonicscoop.com
I'm very curious to know if you record/mix more than just songs. Movies/tv shows and voice overs???? You must have a stable career.
Me personally? It’s all 1. mastering music, and 2. making videos and articles about how to do audio as well.
So I do two things: I master records, and effectively, I teach others.
Between the two it’s a good blend for my personality style. For others, a different blend-perhaps just like you described-might be better!
- Justin
I have to somehwat disagree that music isnt at least in part a spectator sport. this is the entertainment industry. now for the engineer yes the engineer is in the background but as far as the artists/performers it is very much a spectacle which is why such great lengths are gone to to dress them up and create an image and brand for/around them. thats where the money actually is.
the *reason* it must be in some part a spectator sport though isnt because of people being famous, its because music is so universal. even with how trendy it is to be a rapper or whispersinger right now there will never be a time where more people make music than listen to it. the reason it maybe wasnt like that for centuries is simply because there wasnt access, you had to go to a theatre or see some guy with a damn ukulele on the street corner.
I've literally have contacted 300 artist and bands to offer a free mix for one of there songs. And these artists and bands are not famous or have a big following. I haven't received any takers!
same boat
I am a solo artist who is currently mixing my own music. I would be willing to let you take a shot at mixing one of my tracks.
@@basilmusicproduction HI Basil I just realized I haven't heard back from you so I went back to look at this post and noticed my reply wasn't posted. So if your still interested in letting me mix/master one of your songs please email me for more details. Thanks Again!
@@artist1303 I am totally still down for this. I will let you know when I finish recording and editing the next track I am working on. I am not sure on details for sending all the audio files for mixing. Also I don’t know how to find your email.
@@basilmusicproduction Awsome! Yeah when your ready email me and we can go over the details. Click on my icon and go to about and it's there. I'd type it here but youtube won't post my reply if I do. Talk Soon.. Thanks
Musical artists are almost always the clients in the music industry nowadays....
Those who profit are:
- distributors/aggregators
- DSPs
- social media (via ads)
- digital marketers
- software companies
And so on....
The audience gets invariably the music for free so in most cases WE are the ones pouring money into the industry.
Let's face it... 😅
Thanks so much for the comment Francesco!
It is very true that only small proportion of the people who make music will make a living in music. This is the nature of a "spectator sport".
However, one could argue this is possibly a "good" thing. People do make music for all sorts of reasons other than making money. (Just like I do jiu jitsu with no aims of making money from it!)
A beautiful thing about music, is that music lovers are so engaged with music that they make music themselves-as nature intended! Making music is baked right into our DNA. MORE people should probably be making it, even if they never intend to make money from it.
Making money off of music is a separate skill. It takes even more dedication and deliberation, and some more thought about what others want as well, rather than focusing only on what we ourselves want.
But yes, people who do "support" roles of providing infrastructure, tools and assistance to people following a dream have a chance of doing very well financially.
These jobs are much less "sexy" than making music, but can be highly rewarded because of how much people rely on them, and how much less attractive they are to do unless you are getting paid for it!
On the other hand, they are us not quite as rewarding in and of themselves as music is. Few people would be willing to do them without getting paid.
There's an old saying: the surest way to get rich in a gold rush is by selling people pick axes and blue jeans :-)
That said, some small portion of people out digging, through dedication and luck and timing and creative thinking and perseverance really do "strike gold".
There are also some successful music makers who treat their craft a bit more like selling pick axes and blue jeans to those who need them as well. It's less glamorous perhaps, but it is a path I have seen succeed as well.
Thanks for the comment. I hope some of that makes sense!
Very best,
Justin
@@SonicScoop You are absolutely right, Justin. I think some people are just so obsessed that they won't be happy doing anything else than music... it might be the sexy factor but it might be something deeper.... I am not sure what it is....
Yep. Everyone else who blows money on investing in their business/skill always profits. The artist/creative starves unless they keep a regular day job.
To be fair the artists have also been able to take full advantage of those pipelines - I've been trying to brainstorm ways for artists to reward their fans for spending money and attention in ways that don't benfit IG, YT, spotify etc. You can have a million followers that will never actually give you a dime, because clicking "follow" is basically effortless. If you can get 1% of those people to spend 30 dollars on a vinyl or tee shirt and now you're getting somewhere. I think on both sides of the fence people are too caught up in the digital world, eventually life comes down to real and tangible experiences.
The internet used to be used a shotgun approach, now Im seeing creatives in a lot of spaces use it in the opposite way - links to private websites, private chats, private groups, content only for subscribers, give aways only for subscribers etc. In which case you no longer need IG per se, everyone can have their own website/online store etc. Perhaps instead of "regional music" being geographical locations those boarders will be defined by other parameters.
@@SonicScoop I make music because I have always been driven to, I have been paid but quite rarely. How did I get paid? I worked for record labels in the late 90s - 2000s, in CD stores in the early 2000s and then in guitar shops for the rest of the time, apart from a 3 year stint in a commercial music studio. I've also taught guitar and written for music press when that was a thing. Diversify kids and then you can do whatever you want with your music.
For most of us unfortunately when it comes to recording our own music it comes down to how much money we are comfortable with putting into it - just for the experience of having something recorded. The jujitsu reference was a good one - I often think of music as golf, yeah there are a few pros but most just play for fun.
It’s nearly impossible. It’s all about luck not talent.
Answer: Everyone sounds the same
Shame on you. We get paid $0.004 cents per stream, and your advice for us is do more? Streaming services have my money. A little political messaging with these grotesque economic conditions we artists are forced to deal is more deserved than this messaging. You don’t even address the thief that’s in our pockets. Shame, through and through.
I think you missed something in his message. He's saying that most of the income from making music isnt the music itself. At least not until you have a very large fan base. He goes into four other categories (teaching, patronage, and others) that will make up the large part of the money earned. He seems to acknowledge how weird this sounds that the most important part of music, the music itself, is the least profitable but absolutely required.
Thanks for the comment. I'd be happy to do an episode about streaming services and streaming royalties at some point. I'll make a note of it.
I wrote several articles on it years ago, and my analysis and recommendations haven't changed much. The numbers have changed only a bit since then, but not too dramatically.
You can read my last post on it here, but admittedly, it's been a while since I've addressed it, because not much has changed since then.
(And I have never done so on the podcast yet because I wasn't sure that people still cared about the topic! Maybe it's time):
sonicscoop.com/op-ed-spotify-payouts-revisited-how-much-does-it-pay-now-and-how-much-should-artists-demand//
Long story short, If streaming royalties could get up to $0.02 - $0.03 a play or more, it would arguably be as good of a deal for artists as record sales were, or better!
This however, would be a big increase, and would require streaming services to charge their customers a LOT more. Something I'm OK with as a customer!
The difficulty there is that it makes piracy a much more attractive option to average young consumers again.
Unless there are measures in place to discourage that it could go back to a world where artists are earning $0.00 per play for digital music as a norm. But I'm optimistic that this would be possible today.
As much as I think streaming services could and should improve from an artist perspective, the one nice thing I can say about them is that, unlike piracy, they do allow the artist to consent or not to.
At the current payout rates, there is something to be said for the approach of only making a portion of your work available on streaming services, and keep the rest behind your own paywall. This is something that is under your individual control that I do advocate for in many cases.
I even have recommendations as to how streaming services could make this option a reality on their own platforms, which I think would be a win for everyone, keeping subscription prices down for the average listener, while allowing both artists and the services to earn more.
But even if you do adopt this strategy, and even if streaming pay does go up at some point in the future, the other recommendations I make in this episode still apply.
In general, on the podcast I do not focus on politics, or on changing things that are beyond the listeners' individual control. But it could be very good to make an episode on the general idea, the economics driving the current reality, and how to approach streaming as an artist-if at all. That's an angle I definitely could do.
Thanks again for weighing in!
-Justin
I watched what you watched. You should take up 5 more jobs because, it’s not that your 1st job doesn’t pay “most” of your income it doesn’t pay any.
First things first, $0.004 cents per stream. Pay a respectable amount.
@@SonicScoop there is so much wrongness in this answer.
You don’t establish why streaming services would have to change their customers a lot if they up the royalties they pay us. It’s only a foregone conclusion?
You don’t mention the ownership stake the record labels have in streaming services, and how rethinking that arrangement could secure respectable pay for us, at the expense of the labels who historically abuse us.
You say it’s been years since you first gave an analysis of the streaming royalty situation, and that not much has changed over the years, not much has changed over the years? Global pandemic, concerts gone, businesses going under, quarantine, and streaming services lowered their payout rate, when we all needed and deserved a bump in royalty rate during quarantine?
You talk about consumers, and fans supporting artists, but you worry consumers and fans would be the Pirates, and this implies that would be more costly than the treatment streaming services and record labels inflict on us? No, the streaming services and record labels are the pirates.
I don’t appreciate the language of pitting musicians against their fans. They’ve never been the vultures in this industry. And should that day come I’m infinitely more confident fans and consumer grade pirates would respond if I directly ask them for more support.
I have more to say only because I can’t scroll/remember all you wrote, but this is another swing and a miss for me regarding your artists advocacy.
I hope this guy’s comment doesn’t get to your head Justin. It seems to me there will always be people whose main method of competing for their survival is just to complain until someone gives them more. I say do something. Great video and solid advice!
Get to the point!!!
The podcast is meant for when you have time, want to go deep, and want to change your mindset for good.
If you prefer listening on the go, you can get the audio only version on any podcast app.
There are a lot of 5 minute videos out there. Rarely do they change people’s lives or mindsets. (But there are some exceptional ones that may.)
We have short videos on the channel too. But the podcast is a longform approach.
Best wishes to you,
Justin