Before we save American pro cycling, we have to save road cycling in general. Road cycling is at odds with American politics and car-culture. It is nearly impossible to get road closures and permits anywhere close to major city centers. Elected officials are hostile toward the idea of building infrastructure for modes of transportation other than cars. Small businesses only care about parking spaces. The vast majority of the Netherlands doesn't participate in competitive cycling...they ride 30lb step-thru bikes. However that baseline means there is a large crop of potential competitive cyclists to cultivate. Saving road racing in America isn't about the 100 or so people that are too good for the local scene, but not good enough for the European tour. It's about electing bike-friendly officials to city councils, state and federal government positions. It's about increasing field sizes at Giro di SF, the Oakland GP, Snelling, Copperopolis, Pescadero, Berkeley Hills, etc. in NorCal and similar LOCAL fields around the country. Once that happens we can talk about "American pro cycling."
Spot on. Honestly the whole "elite American race scene" smacks of people with too much disposable income trying to blow smoke up their own ass. They have good intentions sure. But they're an insular crowd by definition. High time and dollar inclusion. There is probably a tonne of internal politics as well. I mean look at the legion bs. Now look at RAG BRAI. They have been going for decades, they aren't struggling, they're going from strength to strength, you don't need £15k just to get close.
I feel sorry and don't feel sorry for these riders. The NCL was a classic case of unrealistic expectations. Sport is only a job at the highest levels, NFL, MLB, NBA, ProTour etc... And their direct feeder teams/leagues (Colleges, minors, UCI Conti). To think that an athlete in say Football could make money playing with other guys who didn't make the NFL is unrealistic and doesn't happen in the real world. Just because a tiny percentage of the population loves bike racing and is willing to give up on more proven methods of earning a living, does not mean there is a market for their skill. I love bike racing, I I would never go to a bike race just to watch. Where exactly did the NCL think their revenue/ROI would come from?
When I initially saw athletes from other sports investing in the NCL, my first thought was, "why in the world would you do that, you just threw money down the drain?" There was no way in hell it was ever gonna make money. Big European races struggle to be profitable and they have a culture/politics that supports bike racing, whereas none of that is present in the U.S.
NCL was dead from the from the start. From a marketing standpoint first, you had to be "into" cycling even to notice it was happening, I feel like their goal was to get some kind of TV deal from the gun but you can't do that without a following and there was none, there was no information on the new points system and from previous norcal videos yeah, it was up to people to learn themselves how it worked which ISNT how it should be, and again in terms of marketing we did not know any of the riders and social media it would have helped tremendously to create stories, create rivalries, but all we got was some sporadic uncoortinated posts. NCL could have been a great development track, putting their 7 millions into Cat "6" races and larger non competitive group rides prior to the races for people who didn't know anything about cycling to garner US wide enthusiasm and all it was was 3 races with a lot of bells and whistles for the top tier and nothing to garner attention for the lower. The reason why gravel is so popular is inclusivity and social media excitement and NCL did absolutely none of that on both fronts. Edit: some grammar/typos
If they wanted to create a sport out of it it would happen. There's more people watching cycling than there is watching tennis, golf or any other sport. Look at the views cycling gets and look at the views. Other sports get. The people running the cycling organization for some strange reason just does not want Australia or America to move forward in cycling everything's been shut down. And they lie saying that there's less people ? there's more cyclist today than there ever was. And it keeps growing. To go get involved in any other sport. The only thing you need is a pair of shoes and a ball In cycling you need a bike shoes, a helmet kit glasses a computer And people get more than one of everything I just mentioned. So how can any other sport compare to that? They just haven't figured out how to monopolize it and turn cycling racing into a business for just the few on the top.
>TV deal TV is more dead than cycling in America. ONE Mr beast video on a crit race "THEY CRIT RACED FOR 1 MILLION DOLLARS", which even if they stumped the prize money and paid Mr Beast to make the video, it would have been a better use of the money they wasted
everyone is UCI based, and then US decided to look at everyone else and said naa, lets do something else completely different that nobody asked for and then what do you know, none of it is succeeding... There needs to be more UCI Tours in the US, thats how you can fix it, why not a 4th grand tour for the calendar touring the US???
Because 1) travel costs 2) nevermind that there's no space on the calendar for a 4th 21-stage race and you can't just create one out of thin air, 3) who will sponsor it? Not even South American conti teams come to race North American UCI races, my friend.
@@kidsafe 1) travel costs apply to literally any event a team is racing right now, regardless of whom is organizing so I don’t know what your point is here 2) what do you mean there is no space, the fact that there was an attempt to create an entirely new org of organizing the race calendar for the teams tells me people are willing to make space for something they want. If we get rid of all the useless 'pro' events nobody cares about, which is pretty much every pro cycling race in the US, you got space for literally anything, so I don’t understand your point here. The fact that NCL failed within 1 year shows nobody cared about any of it in the beginning because nobody asked for it and nobody watches that kind of racing, therefore there was no reason for any companies to sponsor the events. 3) who will sponsor it you say? maybe all the companies that already sponsor world, conti-tour teams and events that already exists. there are plenty of big and major companies, cycling and non-cycling companies. why would a company sponsor anything NCL related when nobody cares, knew, nor watches the kind of races NCL was trying to put on? I didn't even know what the NCL was until I saw on my youtube feed that it went bust. Why would any south american team come race in the US, USA Cycling puts its focus and priorities on literally every other kind of event except for UCI events and people wonder why nobody wants to race in the US lol. Racing in the US is useless, waste of time, money and energy, until US starts hosting events that actually people would race for why would anyone lol...
@@atakdd 1. Flying all personnel, 3 road bikes and 2 TT bikes per rider across the Atlantic Ocean costs a lot more moving them between EU borders. World Tour races require all the World Tour teams to participate, and then the 4 Wild Card slots will probably be taken up by big name EU Conti teams like Arkea-Samsic, IPT, Lotto-Dstny and TotalEnergies. That squeezes out all American Conti teams. 2. There is no space on the WT calendar for another month long race. Are you really this dense? 3. Also not sure if you noticed but sponsor money is hard to come by. UHC and Rally had to merge. Hollows-Citadel done, Tibco-SVB done, Jelly Belly done, Amgen ToC done, NCL done. 4. South American teams don’t come to US Conti/Pro races like the Maryland Cycling Classic.
@@kidsafe 1. Budget is budget, that is no different for any sport whether it be cycling, auto racing, etc. If American teams are selected for UCI wildcard slots, which I highly doubt they ever are, and budget is an issue, well there would be a need for more sponsors and money at that point. I’d be willing to bet UCI teams in Europe could afford to race in the US, but why would they since there is no major event here compared to in Europe and Asia. 2. The pro calendar for cycling is incredibly dense, teams are not racing the exact same riders every single week one after another. You can most certainly fit a WT race on the calendar, it is a matter of who teams want to send to compete. 3. Of course sponsor money is hard to come by, did I ever say it was easy? Sponsoring a team is a tax write off business expense, so the question is not a matter of is it too expensive of money to dish out, since much of the money, say, sram spends on sponsoring teams, they will be getting majority of that money back come tax submission. The question is a matter of whether there is a worth-while opportunity cost to sponsoring a team or specific event. Look bikes, a french brand, would be better off sponsoring a team somewhere in europe, preferably france, compared to a team in the US, because dealer access to their frames in the US is more limited than in europe, so why would they bother with the americas market? 4. South american teams would not waste their time going to race pro races in the US, because there is no interest in the US, there is no market in the US, and there is no worthwhile events to race in, in the US. I wouldnt race in the US if I were from south america, that would be a waste of my time and money.
EJ you should move to Europe and get in a team, would be content overload. They could have you as a 'personality hire', one that also happens to have a mean sprint
I am curious as to why the Williams brothers would blow up their dominant brand Legion, just to have 3 teams that now all ride for Cory. It’s all confusing
As a percentage of the population, almost nobody will ever be a pro at any sport. That means most people who think they're going to be a pro bike rider are wrong. American riders who want to make it as a full-time pro have one real option: get selected for a European team.
American cycling has always been a tough sport to make money in. The Pro Tour tried it here. What NCL and others have been doing is trying to reinvent cycling to mesh better with American culture. We’re not Europe who has a massive fan base. So people began wondering how we can start building that fan base here that appeals to Americans not an easy or simple formula. The Williams brothers recognized more riders of color would reflect more positively in a traditionally white dominated sport. But that’s only part of it. The NBA isn’t popular just because there are majority of blacks playing ball it’s because they’re the best in the world. The NBA is the highest level of basketball there is in the world because of the best athletes regardless of color. So inclusivity in cycling is great but ultimately we need the best bike racers regardless of color. Then it’s lining up the sponsors. The sponsors are the money and they have to be deep. Deeper than just bike industry companies. The NCL and others know all this. No one should be throwing in the towel. Learn from mistakes and build it back. America has the racers.
White is a color, and White males built the sport of cycling and sustained it for decades. That NCL was obsessed with race did not reflect more positively on the sport. It merely infused it with woke politics and doomed it to failure.
Hey, this for you Coach Tyler, I feel like if you were actually serious about being a pro cyclist and not a weekend warrior hobbyist, you'd move to Europe and compete forreal. There are so many American pro's actively competing in the world tour at the moment, crying about there not being a legit organization here as an excuse to not "have work as a pro cyclist" is NOT an excuse - the reality is you are either not pro material, or you are not trying actually to be a pro cyclist. America doesn't need cycling be a pro sport the way it is in Europe. They don't have a huge NFL type organization for Football (American Football, not soccer) so why do we think we need one for cycling? America has already proved to be the world stage for Gravel racing, I don't understand why these crit-dads can't just accept it and stop calling themselves "pro" athletes.
I'm going to defend Tyler and the NCL here. As far as your comment about Europe, he's been there, done that. Pretty easy to find on Pro Cycling Stats. Podiuming both races at Pro Nationals last year is about as pro-material as you can get especially beating people like Brandon McNulty... Doesn't it suck though, that we cant have pro cycling like Europe? The NCL was at least an attempt with money behind it. Stage races are clearly tough to put on, seeing as we have two left that are legit national races. And gravel isn't for everyone, there are plenty of people like myself who love road racing and crits and would love to see a legit circuit in the US so that we can see pros and have a pipeline to Europe.
@@westsidewheelmen You guys can't assume anyone watching these videos knows anything about this guy. The conversation went from 0 to to "I'm so mad theres no pro cycling league here, and because there isnt I guess I can't be a pro cyclist." The fact that he was in world tour races a couple years ago and isn't anymore only says to me is that he's a retired pro / ex-pro
stage racing is so much more expensive to organize compared to crits... Crits just need a little area closed down and it quite spectator friendly as well.
It’s WAYYYYYY cheaper to put on Crits than road races. They are also much more spectator friendly since you see riders come by you every 60-90 seconds instead of seeing them once and then have to drive to another spot to wait for them to come by you again.
I’ve been out of racing for decades so I have no particular insights. Live now in St. Pete FL and we had a great crit last fall including many of these the teams. SP had great crowds and local organizers (Orange Belt), lots of local road cyclists, great downtown density and street life, great weather and semi-cooperative city officials. Part of me thinks there an opportunity to develop both West Coast and East Coast teams and sponsorships with venues such as Miami, St Pete, Orlando, Athens, Atlanta, plus sites in NC, and Virginia. Possibly stoke some East Coast/West Coast rivalries.
Yo EJ - would love a video on your camera set up - specifically the rear camera looking back off your rear wheel (how do ya get it so stable?). Cheers!
I really don't understand what they mean when they say inclusivity?diversity?. Like who's stopping anyone from participating? How stupid is that. I cannot get over that.
Exactly, I had the same thought. It seems the DEI mindset needs to be infused into every facet of life. Who is being discriminated against with regards to diversity, etc?..Ridiculous.
Tyler Williams seems like an awesome guy. Humble and professional. EJ, your content is excellent. But more than anyone else, Tyler has been around (especially in Europe) and knows the cycling landscape and how it operates. It's 2024 and things have absolutely changed in the US and Europe. To actually earn a "living" one must go to Europe early (as a junior - which is probably nearly impossible for riders unless they come from wealth) and have the talent of a Sepp Kuss. Riders are getting WT contracts at 19 now. If you go to europe and slave away with U23 and produce zero, you will be stuck and be forced to come home. I think every promising rider MUST understand the reality and not live in some denial, or dreamworld about earning a living racing a bike. And once riders understand that grim reality, then they own their decisions. While earning a living is impossible in the USA, it's even gotten almost impossible in Europe. At some point, riders must grow up if they are interested in having families, ect. If not, enjoy your life decisions but don't blame cycling, because professional Cycling is NOT misleading people. It is what it is. It's like trying to earn a living in the arts industry (acting, music, ect),
I was always dubious of the claim that the NCL was going to 'save' American cycling when the concept and the races themselves did not have any direct link to any mass participation events to truly get cycling enthusiasts involved 'from the ground-up'. Simply adding 3 high-level races was not the way to 'grow' the sport in my opinion. As others have pointed-out, the successful model needs to follow something like Tulsa Tough or Tour of Americas DairyLand (and others) where there is a huge participation factor from the cycling community along with the professional-level racing. The success of 'professional' gravel racing over the past several years is another example of the professional side of the sport growing "up" from the community participation events, in contrast to the NCL model which was trying to succeed from the 'top-down'.
Business is not just about diversity and inclusion. It's about how you involved the community. There's no amateur racing during NCL. So how can they involve the community?
There was no succession of the people/leadership/management from 20 years ago. This group of leadership built high end powerhouse US domestic teams that did both your local small town mid-Calif criteriums one weekend, and then the next weekend would be racing in Vuelta a'Espana --- US domestic powerhouse teams like Mercury, Navigators, L.A. Sheriff, Subaru-Montgomery, JellyBelly, US Postal, Team Saturn, Team Crest, Wheaties-Schwinn, 7-11, (I could go on....). I recall ex USPS riders Levi Leipheimer and Dylan Casey lining up at the Wente Road Race (Livermore CA) P12 field just to do it for training back in the day. I think Levi won and he didn't even take the winners prize. The thing is, no one really picked up the torch once these cycling management people 'graduated' out of the sport. US riders no longer have a life-line to get on European teams. Back in the day, guys like Jim Ochowicz, Mike Neel, Noel Dejonckeree, Eddie B, could spot hot local US talent and could 'connect' riders with top end European teams. Not so much today. Add to that corporations not willing to dole out millions of dollars to sponsor a team, and you are left with the cycling scenario we have today. Sadly, I doubt we'll ever get back to those US cycling glory days of the late mid 90s to early 2000s.
I wanted to see the NCL become more like the NFL or the NBA as a spectator sport. We see in Europe how much the fans can affect the race. So sad to hear that many people literally lost their job. Do you think that they might try to continue with it in the future? Lastly, have you ever thought about trying track racing?
I think that's what they are going for. Is a spectator sport. Which I think is really cool! That's what will bring cycling back to life in the US, is if spectators show up. They are planning to come back for 2025 (The NCL) problem is though I bet they will have a hard time finding riders. Yes I've considered track, but just haven't had the time to try it yet!
A bunch of tech and finance people, some of whom aren't even cyclists, got into race organizing super over confident and bragging about their 'outsider's mentality'. Time after time they ignore feedback and focus on gimmicks and 'disruption' because that is the startup way. What could go wrong? Gutted for all the riders and service staff 😢 Long live WRDevo
I'm not qualified to comment other than representative of a potential market segment for something like the NCL. The full-on body checks on display, without consequences, and the statements that essentially those riders not in the top-top-top of the peloton are fodder and shouldn't be in the front, was so wild to me that I unsubscribed to a bunch of channels that were in support of said shenanigans. Maybe dirtiness attracts more people, I'm not sure, but it's so needlessly careless and dangerous that the product on offer is materially different than what happens in most other places in the world and it seemed quite a bit of the potential target audience were disturbed by what they saw as well.
Gotta say tho that the William brothers are a great business model. They understand the American mindset. I wonder if they have an any input into NCL? If not that’s who I would partner with to grow the sport.
With respect that’s not correct. One of the guys who used to manage the Williams brothers company WRDevo split off and was one of the founders of the NCL. In fact, he took some ideas that the Williams brothers had been talking about for a while with him and implemented them in NCL so if I remember there was initially some minor beef about this, but in short they are not associated with the NCL.
As a cyclist for the last 15 years, coming across this video is the first I've heard of the ncl so that's kinda a problem. Granted the last few years I've been more into mtb and gravel as the road scene died but still.
im sorry but this NCL just seemed like one big american grift. if they called it quits this quickly it was never about cycling, only money. fucking sucks that it had to cost people their jobs once again.
I'm confused. If Tyler felt wanted by Legion/Williams Racing Devo then why was he separated to begin with if the feelings were mutual? This point seems to be glossed over. And besides the NCL folding, what was Tyler's main incentive for returning versus signing with a different squad? I'm a fan of Legion, but I can fully understand why the optics of their branding and reputation may rub riders/people the wrong way. Was the NCL promising a more lucrative salary than Legion? Did internal conflicts exist that needed to be resolved before rejoining Legion? Tyler has always been one my favorite riders in the country. Such a selfless dude. Seeing EJ share a platform with him just makes Tyler even more likable.
He kinda mentioned it was a financial blow, so I guess the pay is not the same. But that is just my understanding dont quote me on this. Happy for Tyler and equipment check pls!
To be honest, it didn’t work whether it was on TV or just the Internet. Watching it felt like those 70s “battle of the network stars“ competitions with Bruce, Jenner and Farrah Fawcett-Majors riding Schwinn varsities around a high school track in dolphin shorts.
The tour of California ceasing is even more tragic but this hurts too. My heart goes out to my waifu who is technically a minority immigrant who really wanted to see American cycling flourish.
Part of what killed the Tour of California was the move from Pro status to WT status. That meant only 4 wildcards were available for teams like Jelly Belly, Hagens Berman, Aevolo, Holowesko-Citadel, Rally, UHC, NovoNordisk, etc. Several of those teams folded soon after. The whole vibe of the event changed.
You can't rush the development of cycling culture in North America. Maybe add another UCI circuit race like Montréal and Quebec. Maryland's race for example. Put on a few years of good racing and hope for the best and it takes hold. These gimmicky leagues and concepts don't last.
The idea for the video was good: a talk while riding a bike. But next time use a recovery ride, heavy breathing is really disturbing... Other than that - thanks for important voice 👍👍
I am glad Tyler will land on his feet. How to create or captor the lightning again is the question! ua-cam.com/video/Cb_BytKw2n8/v-deo.html I have seen a lot of bike races, but this and the 1986 version of the Coors Classic were probably the pinnacle of bike racing in the United States. (From the spectator perspective).
Need promoters to stop reinventing the wheel and work in collaboration with existing races and events. The NCL was a non starter and took the concept of criterium racing and tried to make it something it's not. When promoters and event organizers stop working against each other and start working with each other we'll see a positive change.
Please, enjoy the hobby, ride and compete because it’s fun but just stop with the getting paid part. Maybe someday but today, the very thought is little more than vain and childish and it’s best to grow up sooner rather than later.
Maybe their racist "diversity" and "inclusion" priorities put some people off. Maybe they should have hired based on merit and talent instead of race. Oh well.
EJ I love your content. A little constructive criticism. Maybe no more interviews on the bike. It’s very distracting to have someone heavy breathing and trying to deliver serious responses.
Before we save American pro cycling, we have to save road cycling in general. Road cycling is at odds with American politics and car-culture. It is nearly impossible to get road closures and permits anywhere close to major city centers. Elected officials are hostile toward the idea of building infrastructure for modes of transportation other than cars. Small businesses only care about parking spaces. The vast majority of the Netherlands doesn't participate in competitive cycling...they ride 30lb step-thru bikes. However that baseline means there is a large crop of potential competitive cyclists to cultivate.
Saving road racing in America isn't about the 100 or so people that are too good for the local scene, but not good enough for the European tour. It's about electing bike-friendly officials to city councils, state and federal government positions. It's about increasing field sizes at Giro di SF, the Oakland GP, Snelling, Copperopolis, Pescadero, Berkeley Hills, etc. in NorCal and similar LOCAL fields around the country. Once that happens we can talk about "American pro cycling."
And that's what inclusivity really is.
Yup. I'd imagine most bay area locals have to travel 100+ mi just to do a race in the middle of nowhere. Makes 0 sense.
Spot on.
Honestly the whole "elite American race scene" smacks of people with too much disposable income trying to blow smoke up their own ass.
They have good intentions sure. But they're an insular crowd by definition.
High time and dollar inclusion. There is probably a tonne of internal politics as well. I mean look at the legion bs.
Now look at RAG BRAI. They have been going for decades, they aren't struggling, they're going from strength to strength, you don't need £15k just to get close.
Pete Bootyplug will get right on fixing are racist roads after he's done the bridges and roads will no longer be racist...!
I have been & currently am involved in planning bike races on NYC streets. It is actually very possible to get street closures and permits.
Gravel, gravel, gravel. As a european it seems that everything is gravel in the US now.
I feel sorry and don't feel sorry for these riders. The NCL was a classic case of unrealistic expectations.
Sport is only a job at the highest levels, NFL, MLB, NBA, ProTour etc... And their direct feeder teams/leagues (Colleges, minors, UCI Conti).
To think that an athlete in say Football could make money playing with other guys who didn't make the NFL is unrealistic and doesn't happen in the real world.
Just because a tiny percentage of the population loves bike racing and is willing to give up on more proven methods of earning a living, does not mean there is a market for their skill. I love bike racing, I I would never go to a bike race just to watch. Where exactly did the NCL think their revenue/ROI would come from?
Can you show me a more popular sport that has more people involved on the internet?
As soon as I saw NCL I knew it would fail spectacularly. Don’t hold your breath for season 2😂
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed Video Gaming.
When I initially saw athletes from other sports investing in the NCL, my first thought was, "why in the world would you do that, you just threw money down the drain?" There was no way in hell it was ever gonna make money. Big European races struggle to be profitable and they have a culture/politics that supports bike racing, whereas none of that is present in the U.S.
NCL was dead from the from the start. From a marketing standpoint first, you had to be "into" cycling even to notice it was happening, I feel like their goal was to get some kind of TV deal from the gun but you can't do that without a following and there was none, there was no information on the new points system and from previous norcal videos yeah, it was up to people to learn themselves how it worked which ISNT how it should be, and again in terms of marketing we did not know any of the riders and social media it would have helped tremendously to create stories, create rivalries, but all we got was some sporadic uncoortinated posts. NCL could have been a great development track, putting their 7 millions into Cat "6" races and larger non competitive group rides prior to the races for people who didn't know anything about cycling to garner US wide enthusiasm and all it was was 3 races with a lot of bells and whistles for the top tier and nothing to garner attention for the lower. The reason why gravel is so popular is inclusivity and social media excitement and NCL did absolutely none of that on both fronts. Edit: some grammar/typos
Couldn't agree more.
@@Clauds43 ditto, I was literally tithe exact same thing
If they wanted to create a sport out of it it would happen. There's more people watching cycling than there is watching tennis, golf or any other sport.
Look at the views cycling gets and look at the views. Other sports get.
The people running the cycling organization for some strange reason just does not want Australia or America to move forward in cycling everything's been shut down. And they lie saying that there's less people ? there's more cyclist today than there ever was. And it keeps growing.
To go get involved in any other sport. The only thing you need is a pair of shoes and a ball
In cycling you need a bike shoes, a helmet kit glasses a computer And people get more than one of everything I just mentioned.
So how can any other sport compare to that?
They just haven't figured out how to monopolize it and turn cycling racing into a business for just the few on the top.
>TV deal TV is more dead than cycling in America. ONE Mr beast video on a crit race "THEY CRIT RACED FOR 1 MILLION DOLLARS", which even if they stumped the prize money and paid Mr Beast to make the video, it would have been a better use of the money they wasted
everyone is UCI based, and then US decided to look at everyone else and said naa, lets do something else completely different that nobody asked for and then what do you know, none of it is succeeding... There needs to be more UCI Tours in the US, thats how you can fix it, why not a 4th grand tour for the calendar touring the US???
Because 1) travel costs 2) nevermind that there's no space on the calendar for a 4th 21-stage race and you can't just create one out of thin air, 3) who will sponsor it? Not even South American conti teams come to race North American UCI races, my friend.
@@kidsafe 1) travel costs apply to literally any event a team is racing right now, regardless of whom is organizing so I don’t know what your point is here
2) what do you mean there is no space, the fact that there was an attempt to create an entirely new org of organizing the race calendar for the teams tells me people are willing to make space for something they want. If we get rid of all the useless 'pro' events nobody cares about, which is pretty much every pro cycling race in the US, you got space for literally anything, so I don’t understand your point here. The fact that NCL failed within 1 year shows nobody cared about any of it in the beginning because nobody asked for it and nobody watches that kind of racing, therefore there was no reason for any companies to sponsor the events.
3) who will sponsor it you say? maybe all the companies that already sponsor world, conti-tour teams and events that already exists. there are plenty of big and major companies, cycling and non-cycling companies. why would a company sponsor anything NCL related when nobody cares, knew, nor watches the kind of races NCL was trying to put on? I didn't even know what the NCL was until I saw on my youtube feed that it went bust.
Why would any south american team come race in the US, USA Cycling puts its focus and priorities on literally every other kind of event except for UCI events and people wonder why nobody wants to race in the US lol. Racing in the US is useless, waste of time, money and energy, until US starts hosting events that actually people would race for why would anyone lol...
@@atakdd
1. Flying all personnel, 3 road bikes and 2 TT bikes per rider across the Atlantic Ocean costs a lot more moving them between EU borders. World Tour races require all the World Tour teams to participate, and then the 4 Wild Card slots will probably be taken up by big name EU Conti teams like Arkea-Samsic, IPT, Lotto-Dstny and TotalEnergies. That squeezes out all American Conti teams.
2. There is no space on the WT calendar for another month long race. Are you really this dense?
3. Also not sure if you noticed but sponsor money is hard to come by. UHC and Rally had to merge. Hollows-Citadel done, Tibco-SVB done, Jelly Belly done, Amgen ToC done, NCL done.
4. South American teams don’t come to US Conti/Pro races like the Maryland Cycling Classic.
@@kidsafe 1. Budget is budget, that is no different for any sport whether it be cycling, auto racing, etc. If American teams are selected for UCI wildcard slots, which I highly doubt they ever are, and budget is an issue, well there would be a need for more sponsors and money at that point. I’d be willing to bet UCI teams in Europe could afford to race in the US, but why would they since there is no major event here compared to in Europe and Asia.
2. The pro calendar for cycling is incredibly dense, teams are not racing the exact same riders every single week one after another. You can most certainly fit a WT race on the calendar, it is a matter of who teams want to send to compete.
3. Of course sponsor money is hard to come by, did I ever say it was easy? Sponsoring a team is a tax write off business expense, so the question is not a matter of is it too expensive of money to dish out, since much of the money, say, sram spends on sponsoring teams, they will be getting majority of that money back come tax submission. The question is a matter of whether there is a worth-while opportunity cost to sponsoring a team or specific event. Look bikes, a french brand, would be better off sponsoring a team somewhere in europe, preferably france, compared to a team in the US, because dealer access to their frames in the US is more limited than in europe, so why would they bother with the americas market?
4. South american teams would not waste their time going to race pro races in the US, because there is no interest in the US, there is no market in the US, and there is no worthwhile events to race in, in the US. I wouldnt race in the US if I were from south america, that would be a waste of my time and money.
The average American despise bikes way too much to foster a cycling scene that is profitable enough for a grand tour.
EJ you should move to Europe and get in a team, would be content overload. They could have you as a 'personality hire', one that also happens to have a mean sprint
I am curious as to why the Williams brothers would blow up their dominant brand Legion, just to have 3 teams that now all ride for Cory. It’s all confusing
As a percentage of the population, almost nobody will ever be a pro at any sport. That means most people who think they're going to be a pro bike rider are wrong. American riders who want to make it as a full-time pro have one real option: get selected for a European team.
yes, this, only this. everyone else is delusional
American cycling has always been a tough sport to make money in. The Pro Tour tried it here. What NCL and others have been doing is trying to reinvent cycling to mesh better with American culture. We’re not Europe who has a massive fan base. So people began wondering how we can start building that fan base here that appeals to Americans not an easy or simple formula. The Williams brothers recognized more riders of color would reflect more positively in a traditionally white dominated sport. But that’s only part of it. The NBA isn’t popular just because there are majority of blacks playing ball it’s because they’re the best in the world. The NBA is the highest level of basketball there is in the world because of the best athletes regardless of color. So inclusivity in cycling is great but ultimately we need the best bike racers regardless of color. Then it’s lining up the sponsors. The sponsors are the money and they have to be deep. Deeper than just bike industry companies. The NCL and others know all this. No one should be throwing in the towel. Learn from mistakes and build it back. America has the racers.
White is a color, and White males built the sport of cycling and sustained it for decades. That NCL was obsessed with race did not reflect more positively on the sport. It merely infused it with woke politics and doomed it to failure.
I think you should try a year in Belgium...
Loved the video! Don’t short-change CJ. He’s also a racer. Not sure what category but I’ve seen him sweep for Cory and Justin.
Not surprised. They tried the same concept back in the early 90's. Even had the same name. It went under too.
No way
@@nickbaumcycling Way, it was a total failure. Lasted maybe one season, organizing cycling teams like Basketball teams does not work and never will.
Hey, this for you Coach Tyler, I feel like if you were actually serious about being a pro cyclist and not a weekend warrior hobbyist, you'd move to Europe and compete forreal. There are so many American pro's actively competing in the world tour at the moment, crying about there not being a legit organization here as an excuse to not "have work as a pro cyclist" is NOT an excuse - the reality is you are either not pro material, or you are not trying actually to be a pro cyclist.
America doesn't need cycling be a pro sport the way it is in Europe. They don't have a huge NFL type organization for Football (American Football, not soccer) so why do we think we need one for cycling? America has already proved to be the world stage for Gravel racing, I don't understand why these crit-dads can't just accept it and stop calling themselves "pro" athletes.
I'm going to defend Tyler and the NCL here. As far as your comment about Europe, he's been there, done that. Pretty easy to find on Pro Cycling Stats. Podiuming both races at Pro Nationals last year is about as pro-material as you can get especially beating people like Brandon McNulty...
Doesn't it suck though, that we cant have pro cycling like Europe? The NCL was at least an attempt with money behind it. Stage races are clearly tough to put on, seeing as we have two left that are legit national races. And gravel isn't for everyone, there are plenty of people like myself who love road racing and crits and would love to see a legit circuit in the US so that we can see pros and have a pipeline to Europe.
Tell me you don’t know anything about Tyler without telling me you don’t know anything about Tyler 101…
@@westsidewheelmen You guys can't assume anyone watching these videos knows anything about this guy. The conversation went from 0 to to "I'm so mad theres no pro cycling league here, and because there isnt I guess I can't be a pro cyclist." The fact that he was in world tour races a couple years ago and isn't anymore only says to me is that he's a retired pro / ex-pro
Why is there such a focus on crits here in America anyways over stages? I feel like an investment in more stage races could’ve spiked fan engagement
Not too sure, but might be due to geography. Not a lot of mountains etc near the cities, so easier to have a lot of crits?
stage racing is so much more expensive to organize compared to crits... Crits just need a little area closed down and it quite spectator friendly as well.
Try putting on even a single road race with multiple categories, men's and women's races and find out.
It’s WAYYYYYY cheaper to put on Crits than road races. They are also much more spectator friendly since you see riders come by you every 60-90 seconds instead of seeing them once and then have to drive to another spot to wait for them to come by you again.
I’ve been out of racing for decades so I have no particular insights. Live now in St. Pete FL and we had a great crit last fall including many of these the teams. SP had great crowds and local organizers (Orange Belt), lots of local road cyclists, great downtown density and street life, great weather and semi-cooperative city officials. Part of me thinks there an opportunity to develop both West Coast and East Coast teams and sponsorships with venues such as Miami, St Pete, Orlando, Athens, Atlanta, plus sites in NC, and Virginia. Possibly stoke some East Coast/West Coast rivalries.
Yo EJ - would love a video on your camera set up - specifically the rear camera looking back off your rear wheel (how do ya get it so stable?). Cheers!
I can do that!
I really don't understand what they mean when they say inclusivity?diversity?. Like who's stopping anyone from participating? How stupid is that. I cannot get over that.
Exactly, I had the same thought. It seems the DEI mindset needs to be infused into every facet of life. Who is being discriminated against with regards to diversity, etc?..Ridiculous.
@@tonygSDWR imagine they were so concerned about inclusivity and diversity in football and basketball . They gave up in hockey I guess 😆
It's just another way to disenfranchise Whites. All of our institutions do it under the guise of DIE programs ("diversity" "Inclusion" "equity).
More blacks, gays, trans, handicaped.
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed hahha
Tyler Williams seems like an awesome guy. Humble and professional. EJ, your content is excellent. But more than anyone else, Tyler has been around (especially in Europe) and knows the cycling landscape and how it operates. It's 2024 and things have absolutely changed in the US and Europe. To actually earn a "living" one must go to Europe early (as a junior - which is probably nearly impossible for riders unless they come from wealth) and have the talent of a Sepp Kuss. Riders are getting WT contracts at 19 now. If you go to europe and slave away with U23 and produce zero, you will be stuck and be forced to come home. I think every promising rider MUST understand the reality and not live in some denial, or dreamworld about earning a living racing a bike. And once riders understand that grim reality, then they own their decisions. While earning a living is impossible in the USA, it's even gotten almost impossible in Europe. At some point, riders must grow up if they are interested in having families, ect. If not, enjoy your life decisions but don't blame cycling, because professional Cycling is NOT misleading people. It is what it is. It's like trying to earn a living in the arts industry (acting, music, ect),
I was always dubious of the claim that the NCL was going to 'save' American cycling when the concept and the races themselves did not have any direct link to any mass participation events to truly get cycling enthusiasts involved 'from the ground-up'. Simply adding 3 high-level races was not the way to 'grow' the sport in my opinion.
As others have pointed-out, the successful model needs to follow something like Tulsa Tough or Tour of Americas DairyLand (and others) where there is a huge participation factor from the cycling community along with the professional-level racing. The success of 'professional' gravel racing over the past several years is another example of the professional side of the sport growing "up" from the community participation events, in contrast to the NCL model which was trying to succeed from the 'top-down'.
That Aeroad is siiiiiiiiick looking.
Should we do a review of it? 🤪
@@Ejstrainingcamp Very much yes. I so want to drive to SoCal and check out their facility. Long drive from Denver, but still.
Yes pls
I don't know how the NCL wasn't successful. They were focusing on diversity and inclusion, the most important part of every successful business.
Definitely had nothing to do with an economic downturn across the country, letting people other than white men on bikes really ruined my enjoyment
huh, that might be why I saw someone selling a Miami Blazer team bike recently
Business is not just about diversity and inclusion. It's about how you involved the community. There's no amateur racing during NCL. So how can they involve the community?
@@Clauds43but they support diversity!
Go woke go broke
There was no succession of the people/leadership/management from 20 years ago. This group of leadership built high end powerhouse US domestic teams that did both your local small town mid-Calif criteriums one weekend, and then the next weekend would be racing in Vuelta a'Espana --- US domestic powerhouse teams like Mercury, Navigators, L.A. Sheriff, Subaru-Montgomery, JellyBelly, US Postal, Team Saturn, Team Crest, Wheaties-Schwinn, 7-11, (I could go on....). I recall ex USPS riders Levi Leipheimer and Dylan Casey lining up at the Wente Road Race (Livermore CA) P12 field just to do it for training back in the day. I think Levi won and he didn't even take the winners prize. The thing is, no one really picked up the torch once these cycling management people 'graduated' out of the sport. US riders no longer have a life-line to get on European teams. Back in the day, guys like Jim Ochowicz, Mike Neel, Noel Dejonckeree, Eddie B, could spot hot local US talent and could 'connect' riders with top end European teams. Not so much today. Add to that corporations not willing to dole out millions of dollars to sponsor a team, and you are left with the cycling scenario we have today. Sadly, I doubt we'll ever get back to those US cycling glory days of the late mid 90s to early 2000s.
I wanted to see the NCL become more like the NFL or the NBA as a spectator sport. We see in Europe how much the fans can affect the race. So sad to hear that many people literally lost their job. Do you think that they might try to continue with it in the future? Lastly, have you ever thought about trying track racing?
I think that's what they are going for. Is a spectator sport. Which I think is really cool! That's what will bring cycling back to life in the US, is if spectators show up. They are planning to come back for 2025 (The NCL) problem is though I bet they will have a hard time finding riders. Yes I've considered track, but just haven't had the time to try it yet!
With your power profile track will suit you.
A bunch of tech and finance people, some of whom aren't even cyclists, got into race organizing super over confident and bragging about their 'outsider's mentality'. Time after time they ignore feedback and focus on gimmicks and 'disruption' because that is the startup way. What could go wrong?
Gutted for all the riders and service staff 😢 Long live WRDevo
NCL has been tried before in the 90's and it failed.
I dunno why anyone would think it would work a second time.
I'm not qualified to comment other than representative of a potential market segment for something like the NCL.
The full-on body checks on display, without consequences, and the statements that essentially those riders not in the top-top-top of the peloton are fodder and shouldn't be in the front, was so wild to me that I unsubscribed to a bunch of channels that were in support of said shenanigans.
Maybe dirtiness attracts more people, I'm not sure, but it's so needlessly careless and dangerous that the product on offer is materially different than what happens in most other places in the world and it seemed quite a bit of the potential target audience were disturbed by what they saw as well.
Good on the Williams brothers. Best of luck Tyler.
"Fast forward" is the new "hindsight 20/20"
😂😂😂
Gotta say tho that the William brothers are a great business model. They understand the American mindset. I wonder if they have an any input into NCL? If not that’s who I would partner with to grow the sport.
The American mindset is gravel
They owned it bro. lol.
Lol they literally have nothing to do with it....@@MaxRothFitness
With respect that’s not correct. One of the guys who used to manage the Williams brothers company WRDevo split off and was one of the founders of the NCL. In fact, he took some ideas that the Williams brothers had been talking about for a while with him and implemented them in NCL so if I remember there was initially some minor beef about this, but in short they are not associated with the NCL.
As a cyclist for the last 15 years, coming across this video is the first I've heard of the ncl so that's kinda a problem. Granted the last few years I've been more into mtb and gravel as the road scene died but still.
“He needs me!” lol
happy it worked out for him!
Same here!
im sorry but this NCL just seemed like one big american grift. if they called it quits this quickly it was never about cycling, only money. fucking sucks that it had to cost people their jobs once again.
I'm confused. If Tyler felt wanted by Legion/Williams Racing Devo then why was he separated to begin with if the feelings were mutual? This point seems to be glossed over. And besides the NCL folding, what was Tyler's main incentive for returning versus signing with a different squad? I'm a fan of Legion, but I can fully understand why the optics of their branding and reputation may rub riders/people the wrong way. Was the NCL promising a more lucrative salary than Legion? Did internal conflicts exist that needed to be resolved before rejoining Legion? Tyler has always been one my favorite riders in the country. Such a selfless dude. Seeing EJ share a platform with him just makes Tyler even more likable.
He kinda mentioned it was a financial blow, so I guess the pay is not the same. But that is just my understanding dont quote me on this. Happy for Tyler and equipment check pls!
Many people don't want to have nothing in common with Legion. The reasons are pretty clear.
Sad to hear, if it came on TV, I would have watched.
To be honest, it didn’t work whether it was on TV or just the Internet. Watching it felt like those 70s “battle of the network stars“ competitions with Bruce, Jenner and Farrah Fawcett-Majors riding Schwinn varsities around a high school track in dolphin shorts.
Cycling is such a good thing, I wish it would Infuse every aspect of america. Creating jobs for everyone
"competitive salary... competitive salary... competitive salary" I dont think this is the problem in the US with cycling
The tour of California ceasing is even more tragic but this hurts too. My heart goes out to my waifu who is technically a minority immigrant who really wanted to see American cycling flourish.
Part of what killed the Tour of California was the move from Pro status to WT status. That meant only 4 wildcards were available for teams like Jelly Belly, Hagens Berman, Aevolo, Holowesko-Citadel, Rally, UHC, NovoNordisk, etc. Several of those teams folded soon after. The whole vibe of the event changed.
I'll never forget Taylor Finney crushing it into Santa Barbara years ago. Def sad.
GRAVEL Is King in the US.
You can't rush the development of cycling culture in North America. Maybe add another UCI circuit race like Montréal and Quebec. Maryland's race for example. Put on a few years of good racing and hope for the best and it takes hold. These gimmicky leagues and concepts don't last.
The idea for the video was good: a talk while riding a bike. But next time use a recovery ride, heavy breathing is really disturbing... Other than that - thanks for important voice 👍👍
Sucks for NCL but keep it up you guys!! Love the content!👍🏻
Man you inspired my channel and got 300 subscribers in ome week.
Let’s go!!
Great video, maybe ride a little easier if you’re going to do an interview…
How's that DEI workin' out for ya....was absolutely doomed from the start.
I am glad Tyler will land on his feet. How to create or captor the lightning again is the question! ua-cam.com/video/Cb_BytKw2n8/v-deo.html I have seen a lot of bike races, but this and the 1986 version of the Coors Classic were probably the pinnacle of bike racing in the United States. (From the spectator perspective).
Could have called this a year ago.
Time to join lifetime gran prix I guess
Need promoters to stop reinventing the wheel and work in collaboration with existing races and events. The NCL was a non starter and took the concept of criterium racing and tried to make it something it's not. When promoters and event organizers stop working against each other and start working with each other we'll see a positive change.
Canyon bikes are fantastic _ Customer support is dog sh*t
Hi EJ! 😁🫶
HEY! 👋
Why shouldn't bicycling go the way of the rest of the USA?
An international disgrace designed for politicians to make money?
WTF is the NCL??
Well all those pros have to move to Europe now
It's funny that you think they would stand a chance in Europe 🤣
My favorite part of this video is seeing all the racists out themselves in the comments...
Whats up with the censoring the language? I hope it was done exceptionally because of the more official topic and from respect to people involved.
Cycling is NOT marketable enough to sell to the sponsors that it needs. Accept it and move on.
Stage racing in Europe is where you need to go if you want to be a pro cyclist , sorry but that’s it 🤷
And the pay is still not enough to live on.
60 thousand euros minimum wage if you get in a top tier team
“Professional” a term cyclist use very loosely.
Just my opinion. ITS CORNY!
GRAVEL, is the future.
Please, enjoy the hobby, ride and compete because it’s fun but just stop with the getting paid part. Maybe someday but today, the very thought is little more than vain and childish and it’s best to grow up sooner rather than later.
Trump made bike racing in America great at one time....
sad!
Maybe their racist "diversity" and "inclusion" priorities put some people off. Maybe they should have hired based on merit and talent instead of race. Oh well.
EJ I love your content. A little constructive criticism. Maybe no more interviews on the bike. It’s very distracting to have someone heavy breathing and trying to deliver serious responses.
We will definitely do it not on a climb next time. Just didn’t want wind noise 👍
It sucks. Hands down.
They lost me at 'championing diversity' and 'inclusivity'.
you must be new
Everything woke turns to shit. = NCL.
Diversity in cycling? 😂 good luck
Diversity bla bla bla
Yes, just talking in cliches...part of the woke culture.
No one cares that much about competitive road racing. 😅