Is this your first Dream Drop Discuss video? Be sure to watch the other videos that may answer any questions you have on Sleeping Keyholes or Xehanort's dream of Scala ad Caelum! ua-cam.com/play/PL8sWF-K6JsKmHDZ072-H5vg1Y9i6TYz0H.html I tried to do something new with this video, and color correct cutscenes to make them fit in more with the 'vibe' of the video. Let me know if that's a hit or miss LOL *If I see any FAQ, I'll answer them here :)* _"There are two Traverse Towns because Riku is in Sora's dreams, so we are experiencing both Joshua's Traverse Town as Sora, and Sora's Traverse Town as Riku"_ I'm aware of Riku being in Sora's dreams, definitely-- I mention it in the video. I still believe there's more to that situation however: *1.* Sora and Riku are active at the same time (it's not a "Riku's active when Sora's asleep" situation, Traverse Town and Country of Musketeers proves they're active simultaneously). *2.* temporary projection of _both_ Traverse Towns that's not present in _any_ other Sleeping World (the scene that occurs when Riku and Sora unlock Traverse Town for the 1st visit). *3.* Riku is somehow on the _same_ Sleeping World That Never Was, because Riku sees Sora's sleeping body when he fights the Anti Black Coat. This is *before* Riku wakes up in the real TWTNW. *4.* Traverse Town was already split _before_ Riku's arrival when he dived into Sora's dreams. We know this from listening between the lines of Joshua, Beat, and Neku, they they're split apart from each other long before Sora and Riku's arrival in the two Traverse Towns. So my point is, I believe there's more to the situation then "There are two Traverse Towns because Riku is in Sora's dreams" or else Riku couldn't see Sora in Dream TWTNW, and if he could see him, Sora would only be a projection like he was in Traverse Town. I hope this makes sense. Clearly this trays away from portals, which is why I left it out LOL.
Wait a minute. I just realize something. The final world is connected to the sleeping realm. What comes before death usually? Endless sleep. So that implies that the final world is beyond the realm of sleep
The reason there are two Traverse Towns is because the one Sora goes through is the one that Joshua dreamed up, while the one Riku goes through is within Sora's dream. (Couldn't find a script of the entire conversation, so here's Joshua's half) "Riku. There's something else you need to know. These two Traverse Towns separated by the Portal... I was under the impression they were parallel worlds, but it looks like I was wrong." - telling Riku about the world. "That's where it gets tricky. After you and Sora left, Shiki crossed the Portal to join her Game partner. Did you notice Players have a mission timer inscribed on their hands? Well, when she got to the other side, Shiki had more time left on her clock than her partner. And when Beat's partner crossed over from the other side, she had LESS time left." - when Riku asks how Joshua is wrong. "Yes, I understand that. But if these Traverse Towns were parallel worlds, then time would flow the same in both. But it doesn't, ergo they are not parallel worlds." - when Riku says that any two worlds run on different time axes. "No. Impossible. The worlds are clearly separate-it's not just time that sets them apart. As you yourself noted, every world flows at its own pace, which tells me that for all their similarities, these are two distinct worlds." - when Riku asks if he means there is a past and a future of the world. "Yes...but this is all conjecture. It's like the same world imagined by two people. What does that tell you? That we're in..." - Joshua continues. "Yes. Bravo again, Riku. In which case none of this may matter one bit to me or my friends. But to you and Sora, I think it might be vital clue." - when Riku understands that they are in a dream. That was one of the clues we were given that Riku was inside of Sora's dream, and it explains the reason we have two versions of each of the worlds we're visiting, not just Traverse Town: one is the place where Sora is and the other is a reflection inside Sora. After all you're supposed to switch over to Riku only when Sora does a drop, meaning he fell to sleep as illustrated with the first drop in Traverse Town, so Riku would be in whatever world Sora was when he succumed to sleep, and Riku's playtime ends when Sora wakes up. Joshua doesn't know about Xehanort so he doesn't know why the second dream happened, and since it doesn't really affect him or his friends he doesn't care, but he's aware it might be related to the only other two people who showed up and thus let's them know It's also noteworthy that time flows differently in the dream version of a world. Not regarding the topic at hand, but just in general
Related to this, Joshua "should" be able to exist in both of these. The first one because he created it, and the second because Sora dreamed up Joshua(and everyone else) in dream Traverse Town. But without a portal, Joshua shouldn't be able to travel between these, as he's neither a human being nor a keyblade wielder. I guess the main reason he needs one is to "sync" the Joshuas in each Traverse Town so that they're "actually" the same person instead of just reflections of each other.
That dialogue helps a lot but how would Riku have entered Sora's dream and you don't necessarily have to go to the same worlds with Sora and Riku at the same time, it is implied that you do because of level. However, take Le Cite Des Cloches as an example: while the implication is that Riku arrived in Traverse Town after Sora, he arrives in Le Cite Des Cloches BEFORE Sora (while we don't know for sure but the implication is that Wargoyle was beaten by Riku, fell off of Notre Dame, then was defeated by Sora). If the argument is how much time they spent in the world, Drop-Me-Nots, aside they spend about the same amount of time awake and asleep. Also, realistically, Riku couldn't have been faster leaving town for the windmill and back than for Sora to getting to the Court of Miracles. Sure, Sora gets knocked out but that isn't a "drop" according to the game and they both fight Wargoyle, a nightmare that Riku saw first and fought twice, making it not original to Sora. Edit: Another realization. Unless I'm missing something, If Riku was in Sora's Dream, that would mean Young Xehanort would have to go through Riku before being able to trap Sora, or Riku would have to leave before Sora was trapped but I'm not completely sure if that happens chronologically that way. Because there is the specific instance of Riku "almost waking Sora up".
@@benedict6962 I think it might have more to do with Xehanort. Xehanort split the Toy Box world and pulled apart the people from there, so maybe he did the same with Traverse Town. Xehanort used the Players to get to Sora and Riku. In order to manipulate them he needed to first separate them. He probably also made sure to send Joshua to the version of Traverse Town that was made up of Sora's dream (Riku's Traverse Town) in order to keep him away from Rhyme. I do believe that there only is one version of Joshua. Joshua and the rest of the Players weren't dreamed up by Sora. Joshua gathered their dream pieces and put them in dream Traverse Town. Then when Sora arrived in dream Traverse Town, Xehanort must have realized that Riku dived into Sora's dream, so he divided the folks from Shibuya and sent Shiki, Beat and Joshua into the other Traverse Town.
@@SchultzDorinda But then why didn't Xehanort just split Shiki and Beat into a reflection that Riku wasn't in? It makes sense that Traverse town isn't strictly Sora's dream of it, but then wouldn't Riku dive into Sora's dream of Traverse town, rather than the split version? What information do we have on the splitting, I can't remember anything meaningful from Toy Box, and Joshua flat out says he doesn't know.
yesyesyesyesYES. Thinking about all this is difficult, but it's very good to know that there is at least some evidence to support the things presented in these games. It's reassuring that the story is following a thread of logic, even if it can be difficult to follow it sometimes. This point about how portals work and how their colors change was really fun to try to wrap my mind around. (love the cricket sound effect over Traverse in Trance!)
I'm seriously blown away by every video you make, the extensive editing, the quality writing, and convincing arguments. Yet another A+ video, I'm shocked at how big of a fan I've become of your channel. I'm excited for the next one! Great job!
This is incredibly ironic as I was just thinking this morning, "Oh yeah... I wonder if 'The Secret Reports' has anything new?" Kingdom Hearts is such a big part of me, but WOW it can be sooo complicated! Love your videos!
Loved the editing done on the TWEWY explanations! So cute :> This talk on portals now makes me ask how the potential data battles in Re:Mind will be accessed and where.
Thank you for helping clarify what we know about Portals! I recently played through DDD myself with a similar goal in mind, of understanding the story and mechanics of the KH world better. And one of the things that struck me while playing was that particular Portal in TWTNW. Of course there would need to be a Portal to access the rest of the game: Riku’s no longer in the Realm of Sleep! I was always a little sketchy on Joshua using Rhyme as a Portal as well, so thank you for clarifying that too. Despite my playthrough, I’m very unclear about whether or not the bulk of DDD takes place during KH1 or after Coded, and I still do not understand Sora and Riku’s younger appearance, even in the real world. Although I realize these confusions are outside the scope of this video. You did a fantastic job, and I continue to look forward to your videos!
Mexgar The supposed time travel AND their younger appearances are definitely things I want to go over! If not this next video, then the one after, definitely.
Heck yeah! The Secret Reports uploaded! More information fo me to gain about my favourite games! And with each video you upload my understanding of the games is a lot clearer! Thank you!!!! P.s. the editing is amazing!
You gotta appreciate the depth that some of these story elements have. :) They didn't need to do it in a Disney game, but they did and we have a great series because of it.
In a sense, it won't be _about_ Dream Eaters, but they'll be featured heavily in one video. Kinda like how this video was about _portals_ but I had to talk a lot about the TWEWY gang to explain them. It'll be sort of like that!
The Secret Reports I’m really curious about as to why chirithy’s are dream eaters and how the original X and Ux is all now seemingly not in a dream? Would you be touching on that by any chance?
So I think the Portal for Sora's is leading to the station is due the protection by the dream eater. Kind of treating it like a drop sequence when you enter the worlds in DDD. But instead of falling since there is an heart here this became the battlefield. Neither Xehanort or Rhyme had dreameater problems and Rhyme at the time didn't have a heart just dreams. (Good video btw I love the use of sound effects.)
I haven't finished the video yet, so maybe you bring this up- but when Sora, Donald, and Goofy enter Xehanort's portal, they aren't entering a dream, as far as we know. Mickey and Riku specifically say that they want to use Xehanort's portal through Time to trap him. This seems to imply that they truly did move to the past, but in a manner that doesn't actually affect it. I know it makes less sense that way, but that is how it was explained in the game. I'd also like to add that I recall Nomura going into more detail about the portals in an interview or Ultimania- he specified that when Ansem SoD first met Young Xehanort and gave him the ability to travel through time, Young Xehanort became a portal, which is what allowed the different Xehanorts to travel through time *through* him. This is also why Master Xehanort is a portal as well- once Young Xehanort became a portal, he remained a portal throughout his life. So, to recap what this entails; a person can become a portal, *hearts* can travel through those portals, at the very least, and these portals can lead to different points in time, but seemingly *cannot* change the past. I'm assuming this means that the final battle with Xehanort in KH3 took place is a sort of pseudo-past, like a replica of the past that doesn't affect the future?
Second note: Maybe you're just leaving this open for another video, but the Two Traverse Towns was explained in KHDDD, ableit in a confusing way. There are two TTs because one is within the realm of sleep, and the other is within Sora's dream of the Traverse Town he is currently experiencing. Sora explores TT, drops, and then Riku explores Sora's dream of TT. This happens for every world, but TT is the only one with Joshua within it in order to showcase the separation and travel between them
Hi James! I think you may be also interested in the video on Sleeping Keyholes that I created before this one. In that, I discuss how Scala ad Caelum in KH3 may be only a dream from Xehanort's memory in the same way that Riku entered a dream Destiny Islands from Sora's memory. In both places, people either weren't there (SaC) or people who shouldn't be were (Ventus, Roxas, Xion aren't literally at Destiny Islands, just inside Sora's heart). And both places had people enter via Sleeping Keyholes. I think you should watch it if you haven't yet :) As for YX becoming a portal, I talk about in Dream Drop Discuss's introduction that I don't actually discuss it in this series because I'm not 100% sure how it works. And I don't always like to rely on Ultimanias for logic and understanding because there have been times that Nomura has later contradicted himself or changed his mind. I'm sure for now that you're right about Young Xehanort, but I don't just want to talk about things on this channel unless I really feel like I understand it. I hope that's okay!
I'd like to add one more thing- I apologize if all this seems rude. I'm not trying to "correct" you per say, but I really love the level of quality and effort you put into these videos, and want to make sure you know everything you need in order to further your analyses. Now, regarding portals- I think this is something that has needlessly confused people due to DDD, but I'd like to clarify based on lore and things Nomura has confirmed. I don't think Portals are exclusive to sleep and dreams, but rather, they're exactly what they sound like- portals, linking two places or times. It makes sense that there'd be portals into dreams, portals between dreams, portals through time, etc, because they'ere all just that: portals. Xehanort is a portal through time, while portals in DDD are used to traverse dreams. As for Sleeping Keyholes, they're used to enter/exit the realm of sleep, as well as lock/release sleeping worlds and hearts. I like to think of it like a needle that can thread through these "bubbles" of sleep- you need to use the needle to enter the realm of sleep in the first place (the largest bubble), and then use that needle to enter the bubbles within as well (the sleeping worlds)
@@AlphaOblivion7 I agree James! I actually did all this research a long time ago in April. So I'm well versed and well prepared with how portals and sleeping keyholes work. I tried to explain in the video that portals aren't exclusive to the Realm of Sleep and dreams, by mentioning the blue portals. So far it seems, all the pink ones are connected to sleep and dreams. But I absolutely agree with you that in general, they do connect two things. _"There are two TTs because one is within the realm of sleep, and the other is within Sora's dream of the Traverse Town he is currently experiencing"_ And I see where you're coming from for this, definitely. Before KH3, this was how I interpreted this situation. But we have to remember that when Sora and Riku unlock Traverse Town for their visit, both Sora and Riku are "conscious" (I'm using that word cause clearly they're asleep, it's DDD LOL) at the same time. We see Joshua talking to them both at the same time. So in this instance, it's not "Riku is awake because Sora dropped" because Sora isn't dropped in that instance. I definitely agree that Riku is within Sora's dreams, but I still personally think the coincidence that Toy Box is also split, and both Toy Box and Traverse Town were being monitored by Young Xehanort is too big of a coincidence. Especially now that Verum Rex, a videogame within Toy Box, is showing to take a much larger part in the KH franchise. I still believe at the moment that Traverse Town being split has something to do Young Xehanort. Sleeping Keyholes, like I said in my last reply, I definitely discuss in detail in a separate video, so I already know their functions. I do like your analogy a lot!
@@TheSecretReports Hi, thanks for the response! : ) I understand now, and I agree about the Ultimania thing. Nomura has definitely contradicted himself a few times in the past in those and in interviews In that case, I'm really excited to see your future videos and how you break down the lore of the world of Kingdom Hearts. Thanks for putting so much effort into these videos!
Another day,another ep of Dream Discuss.And overall it was fantastic.I learn so much thanks to Portals(like what both have comon with sleeping keyholes as well connection to Worlds End With You(I wonder if canon,now I think about it).I love your theory about the colors of the Portals and visual style is really fantastic and it not only add charm,but also makes me smile.😊😊😊 Amazing job.See you in next video
Your videos are so amazing!! I love the content of course and the editing too! All the images and text are layed out so nicely! You're really talented! I can't wait to see more from you!!
Still am in love with that Portal in TWTNW in Riku's story. Even if they didn't have time to model grown-up Riku in his dream clothes, they still went the extra mile to ensure that the gameplay and story were properly connected. I love this game :)
I'm pretty sure the whole different times for two traverse towns was meant to be our biggest hint that Riku was actually in Sora's dreams. Essentially both went back in time to destiny islands then when they both fell asleep riku jumped a second level into Sora's dreams, hence two different worlds this could also explain why sora still had his same outfit when he entered the organization world because riku was still in his dreams.
Now you're thinking with portals. Excellent video as always. It's always great to walk away from your videos having a better understanding of certain parts of the series. DDD is such an amazing mess of new and crazy concepts. I'm glad you're taking time to go step-by-step in explaining them. 😊👍
There are two traverse towns for the same reason there are two versions of all the world in DDD: because Riku is within Sora's dream version of that world. Joshua even hints at this when talking to Riku in the second visit. So Sora is in the original one, that Joshua dreamed up, while Riku is inside Sora's heart, experiencing Sora's dream of the same place.
3:59 - 4:18 This is no different then what Darkness said to Maleficent about the laws of time travel. Cast your body and your heart can travel at the speed of light into the future. But in doing so, without a body, you will be no different than a ghost. *However, so long as you have an intermediary (Pete?) and others who remember you, you’re heart will take shape.* This can also be said about Ansem (Xehanort/Terra/Eraqus🤯) when his heart travelled in time. The only thing he didn’t have
Not sure if this was talked about in another video, but I feel like the reason Sora and Xehanort respectively have a dreamed up Destiny Islands and Scala ad Caleum in their hearts is because it's what they consider their homes. Xehanort might come from Destiny Islands, but he never or rarely felt like he belonged there, and since he didn't inherit the land of departure and travelled the worlds, he never really settled in anywhere after obtaining his mark of mastery. Scala ad Caellum is probably the last place he ever felt at home at. Both their hearts contain a dreamed up, a living memory, of the place they consider home, it's a part of who they are. The concept of home isn't even something new to the series, as "a place to belong" was an important plot point in 358/2 Days.
AlphaXXI I think that’s a great point! If Xehanort truly does consider Scala ad Caelum his home, it only makes me want to a game of him in his youth all the more haha. Cutscenes of a chess game can only answer and satisfy so much
The reason for two Traverse Towns is explained later on in DDD, and it's the same reason there's two versions of every other sleeping world - one is the world's dream, and one is Sora's dream of that world. (Although in Traverse Town's case it might be that one is Joshua's dream and one is Sora's dream.) Because Sora is asleep while he explores the sleeping world's, he's dreaming up new versions of them simultaneous with his experiences in them.
The graphics and sound effects are so satisfying aaaaa I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the theory stuff but thanks to these videos I finally feel like I'm starting to understand :D
this channel has been on my radar for a few months but i have yet to check it out as i hadnt beaten all the games yet. well today i have finally beaten 3 and remind, and i thought i had a pretty good grasp of the what's what, but this has just blown me away. there is unbelievable depth to this series that i hadnt even scratched the surface on. thank you for this video and all of your other ones as well
Guys!!! I seriously love your videos, even though y’all don’t have the most consistent video schedule but all the videos you upload have amazing quality in everything and I love that. Thank you for making all these amazing KH related videos!! :)
The effort that you put into the graphics for these video essays is so amazing!! Everything looks so clean and every video I’ve seen from you is cohesive from start to end. Keep up the amazing work! This really refreshed my passion for the lore!
[SPOILERS] I also wonder if any of what Joshua mentions of his friends being rebuilt from their dream pieces ties in/foreshadows what we see of Sora in The Final World. Whereas Joshua is the one thing keeping his friends together, Kairi is the one keeping Sora together. Sofa rebuilds himself from each piece of him similarly, and maybe just by seeing and acknowledging the souls/stars he is helping them regain their whole selves. Maybe Traverse Town seems a parallel purpose to Shibuya in the KH3 ending. A 2nd Shibuya, where Sora can take refuge while he rebuilds himself(?)
Long post but I really love this video and your series in general, you're really doing your research. I've been saying this since the secret movie released but I have a suspicion that Nomura wrote 3D Traverse Town as foreshadowing for the next game after KH3. I'm not sure if it is directly related to TWEWY though, but what happens to Neku and his friends could be very similar to what happened to Sora at the end of 3. His existence came to an end. The main reason I think this is because the Shibuya and Shinjuku we see are different colors and one has the fictional Scala Ad Caelum language all over the signs in Shibuya while I caught a glimpse of Romaji signs in Shinjuku where Riku was. And in the Verum Rex trailer we also see that Yozora's Tokyo only uses Japanese and English signs, not the fake Kingdom Hearts language. So I'm inclined to believe that Sora and Riku have been separated into different worlds like the Traverse Town and Toy Box were. Riku seems to be in the Verum Rex world with Yozora, but Sora is somewhere else with the Master of Masters maybe. That's my current theory. Nice one catching onto the sleeping world portal colors too. At first I thought the yellow ones meant something else but then I noticed TWTNW portal matches the color of the world inside, so in truth the only confirmed colors are the pink and blue ones. And on Scala Ad Caelum, I agree that it's just a dream or a figment of Xehanort's memory like Sora's Destiny Islands that Riku went to, kind of like an inner world, and it's Scala because it was a place important to Xehanort in his youth. Another thing that separates Scala from your standard sleeping world is the buildings being rock solid all the way through, we know the buildings can be entered in sleeping worlds, but in Xehanort's dream it's just an illusion, scratch the surface and you see that. Curiously, buildings in the Realm of Darkness are rock solid too, like Cinderella's Castle Town in 0.2, sort of like they've crystalized. It's another one of those things they've never explained but it's consistent throughout the series. Sorry for the monologue, looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts on things in future videos.
That first paragraph ugh YES!!! That's exactly my train of thought too, and I plan on finishing Dream Drop Discuss with a theory on how Sora is in the same position as the TWEWY gang in DDD. I just know that before I do that, I have to explain everything else, which is part of the reason why it's going to be the final [planned] video of the series. But I completely agree with you! And I never thought about how Xehanort's dream and how the buildings can't be entered, super interesting! It's kinda like how everyone is missing too. If it was a sleeping world with it's events being repeated, you'd think there would be citizens/NPCs that are figments of the world's dream too. Because the SaC in KH3's climax shows all the signs of being just within Xehanort's dreams, I can't help but wonder if something's happened to the real Scala ad Caelum, resulting in Xehanort and Eraqus now living in the Land of Departure with a broken castle that clearly is detached besides the chains connected to the rock columns.
All of your videos are absolutely fantastic, clear and concise. My hunger for informations and theories is never satiated, but this... this does put a smi- wait no, wrong franchise. I'm really looking forward to your next videos!
Great video as always! Although I thought the reason there were two traverse towns was because one was the actual sleeping world (Sora's visit) while the other was Sora's dream of that sleeping world(Riku's visit). It also explains why the two are on different timelines (one being ahead and one being behind as explained by Josua on the second visit). It also makes sense because Riku is technically going through Sora's dreams as his dream eater. But thats just my understanding; I'm not sure if its accurate! edit: I just read someone's comment on this same topic, sorry for the duplicate point!
I think there is an explanation as to why there are 2 Traverse Towns: Sora’s version is Rhyme’s dream, and Riku’s is Sora’s dream of Rhyme’s dream. This extends to every world in the game, in fact. The reason the two never cross paths and the stories in each world contradict each other at points is because Sora is always exploring the dream of the world while Riku is exploring Sora’s dream of the world.
ok but i burst out laughing when you said Realm of Death, its just so weird hearing an academic voice discussing the behavior of death. Really good video brw
It's fascinating to me that both worlds that are split into that we've seen instances of, being toy box and this version of traverse Town; both of which have appearances of young xehanort and connections to some version of Tokyo. Shibuya and TWEWY and Shinjuku and the world of Verum Rex. Hopefully a lot more of this will be cleared up in the REmind dlc.
To answer why there are two Traverse Towns: I believe DDD answers this. Riku, through almost the entire journey of the game, was traversing Sora's Dreams. Every part of Riku's journey was slightly different from Sora because of this, because each world reflected on Sora's own memories and experience of the world. Traverse Town was split because of the nature of Sora & Riku's journey. As for why TWEWY cast was split up, that's never fully explained, but I think we can assume this happened as soon as Sora & Riku showed up.
Your theories are fantastic and well constructed, but you also deserve MAJOR props on the editing (assuming you edit your own videos), it's honestly close to top tier and really helps people understand what you're talking about easier, and adds even more to the overall high quality of your theories and videos. You deserve far more attention than you've received so far, I'm spreading your channel to the KH fans I know, it's not much but it's what I can do to help you receive the attention you deserve.
Don’t worry, I have a LOT of things I want to talk about! But I don’t want to create this idea that I have a “schedule” for uploads like channels usually have, because I know that my videos will take a long time to make. And they may be tedious to make, but it’s a great outlet for my creativity. So I don’t plan on giving up anytime soon LOL
Nice video!! I always appreciate people who do their homework before making a video. There's still one question that bugs me, though. How are Sora and Riku still able to interact with each other, albeit very indirectly? This is also acknowledging the fact that the worlds Riku's exploring are Sora's dream versions. If your house analogy in the video is anything to go by, it's like if Neku flips a switch in a room in one house and the other house's room suddenly goes dark (or light). These sort of instances are especially clear in Fantasia, the Three Musketeers, and Twilight Town. If the two versions of one world are distinctly different, how can people-- or in Riku's case, Dream Eaters--- of one version effect the other (especially when one version is actually someone's own memory of that world)? Idk, just something that popped in my mind after finishing the video. Perhaps you could cover it in a future video. Thoughts??
I think the world split is explained by Ansem at The World That Never Was in KH3D. The scene where Joshua was explaining to Riku how the two weren't parallel worlds supports this because while Joshua didn't fully understand the implications of the split world, he said that with the intent to warn Riku about his journey. He even describes the two Traverse Towns as if being "the same world imagined by two people" One is the Dream of Traverse Town, which is where Sora is The other is Sora's Dream of Dream Traverse Town, which is where Riku is. Yeah the vague-ish timeline for when the split happened (sometime prior to the two waking up in their 1st visit) makes this tricky, but in the first place the Sleeping Worlds seem to operate on very loose causation; as seen in the Country of Musketeers, or how generally speaking Riku's journey is somehow occuring when Sora's asleep and simultaneously with Sora's journey.
zaqareemalcolm Hello! If you haven’t yet, I also suggest my world on Shibuya and Shinjuku. I think you would enjoy that video as well as it references a few of the points you’ve made
@@TheSecretReports i watched it and liked it, but I still think it's already a solved mystery in this case; personally it's hard to use a sequence of events as evidence of the World split being only by Xehanort's intervention when the same game also establishes that the Sleeping Worlds were already unusual that they only loosely follow linear time, and cause and effect + the narrative itself pointing towards the second Traverse Town being indeed Sora's dream.
From what I understand of DDD, there are two Traverse Towns (and every other world) because the one Sora’s in is the true sleeping world whereas the ones Riku’s in is Sora’s dreams of those worlds.
So, while that IS the commonly accepted explanation among fans, the problem with that explanation is that the TWEWY gang was already split before Sora or Riku even arrived in Traverse Town. We can tell because characters like Joshua and Neku already seemed pretty used to the idea that they were separated. It's not like either characters seemed super shocked or confused when Sora and Riku arrived, when Riku dove into Sora's dreams. So I figure it must be another reason that explains why the TWEWY gang was split long before Riku dove into Sora's dreams. I hope that makes sense!
Great content, as always, the wait for this video was totally worth it! About the blue Portals, I thought that maybe the lore difference between them and the pink ones is that they don't lead you to the Realm of Sleep or the Realm of Death, but you remain in the real world when travelling through them, while the others either are used to travel between the real world and one of those places or are already in the RoS/RoD
FriendlyAndroid Studios I do recommend you watch Sleeping Keyholes too if you haven’t, that might answer other questions you may have :) Lemme know if you have questions!
One thing that I just realised is that it’s sorta made clear from the encounter Riku had after he defeated the hooded figure with the red eyes in The world that never was, yeah that conversation with Ansem (heartless ansem) that he was traversing through Sora’s dreams, hence the reason why they are separated in the first place. Soras actually unlocking the sleeping worlds while Riku is... unlocking soras dreams of the sleeping worlds I guess??? (Honestly still working on that theory) but in the case of portals. Couldn’t you say that the reason why their are 2 travers towns in the first place is because theirs The actual Sleeping Travers town and the Sora Sleeping Travers town (that being the one Rikus going though) and that for some reason and somehow... Sora and Joshua are deeply connected? I mean it just seems odd because it’s basically said that Riku is Soras Dream eater in a sense... (my brain hurts now 😂)
The issue I have with "one is the actual Sleeping World and the other is Sora's dream of it" is that even before Sora and Riku arrive in Traverse Town, the TWEWY gang had already been separated for what seems quite a while. We would have to see Neku is a state of shock or confusion because the two worlds would have JUST had to split right when Sora arrives. But Neku has clearly long been aware that his partner is separated from him. Even Joshua seems used to the idea that there are two Traverse Towns by the time Riku arrives. So this goes to tell me, that the two Traverse Towns were split long before Sora and Riku arrived, and thus it could not be because Riku is experiencing Sora's dreams of it.
I just need to point this out (perhaps better comments will be edited in later), at 1:07 If Riku is in the real world, how is he able to use a Keyblade/Keychain from the Sleeping Realm? Shouldn't the appearance be Way to the Dawn, similarly to how Kingdom key, not two scenes later, takes its original appearance when specifically in Sora's dream and not in the Sleeping Realm which most of the game takes place in? Edit: Here's how I see the twin Traverse Town situation, granted this is making an assumption on WHEN Joshua entered Traverse Town and when Sora and Riku do which I'll touch on later. Traverse Town, and the entirety of the Sleeping Realm we see in game is because the realm itself is based on the Dreamers and is warped around their interactions. Since the idea was to have the characters start their journey "from the beginning", their next logical step from destiny Islands is to arrive in Traverse Town. However, one of them either fell into a second sleep or was separated out from the Original Dream. This would occur after Joshua arrived but before he manifested TWEWY gang. Unknowingly, he put them in two different planes and then saw Sora and Riku and assumed that they were also a part of the Dream. In this case, the two Dreamers are either Sora and Young Xehanort, or Riku and Young Xehanort, though admittedly the former because we know Riku is a Dream Eater, making the original Dreamer Sora and Joshua is a caught up third party. (Honestly, while not malicious, his dialogue with Sora doesn't seem entirely truthful.) As I mentioned on another video, at the first Sleeping Keyhole we see, Sora and Riku are not only together but one is definitely awake and the other is unmoving (the keyblade does all the work). So, it is possible that Sora fell into a second sleep while Riku remained in the original, but since Riku manifested as a Dream Eater and not a Dreamer, he was not capable of fully exiting the Dream without being on the same plane as Sora (as we talked about before). It is also possible, since Dream Eaters can move between planes/ different states of sleep (as we see Sora and Riku can literally share the same Dream Eaters) that Young Xehanort simply moved Riku into a plane that he did not enter the Sleeping Realm in, to which Riku was not aware, and only through Sora could he figure out how to escape (also in line with what we discussed before). This is also implied by what appears to be a slight delay between Sora and Riku entering Traverse Town. It could be that since Sora was asleep during the first keyhole, that was when he entered Traverse Town, or that the split caused Riku to arrive much later. Either way, I would say the split was cause by Young Xehanort and Sora was the catalyst. In The Toy Box, this was likely a continuation of the same experiment, but assumedly in the "Real World" instead of the Sleeping Worlds. They started with data, then went to dreams, then they applied it practically, however we don't fully know for what or how.
Another amazing video! Worth the wait! Always love your illustrations, they really add a lot to your videos (: I was curious about some things. With the pink portals in 3D, there are two separate interactions with them: Spawning different dream eaters and entering a fight. Some of the blue portals seem to do the same thing in KH3, but other times you do transport somewhere else, so maybe you really are just transporting spirits/ nightmares to your location. But I find that a bit odd since their functionality doesn't seem to differ too much in my opinion. Also, the yellow and dark purple seem to make sense with what you're saying. I was wondering too about the dream and death realms, since I really only have 3 realms in my head cannon: light, dark and inbetween. I'd be curious to discuss more with you, especially with TWTNW, since this still seems to house spirits/ nightmares even though it is supposedly in the real world. And the same with Tron's world. Again, amazing video, always enjoy watching them when they pop up!
"so maybe you really are just transporting spirits/ nightmares to your location." oh my god I didn't even THINK about that LOL!! That makes a LOT of sense. And I do want to talk about spirits and nightmares in a future video. And maybe even take certain pieces across this series and make a completely separate video for the Grid itself. As I still *personally* believe Young Xehanort when he says it's a real world, and I think I can explain a lot about why things associated with sleep occur in it. But if I do, I want to approach it in a way that's not me saying "The Grid is DEFINITELY asleep" or "DEFINITELY awake" but rather "here are factors that point to either possibilities". But a lot of what I plan to make a video of, I already talk about in an analysis I did in April. Its a bit rough cause 1. I'm not as polished in my thinking and 2. it's ALL text. But there's a link to it in the description of Dream Drop Discuss's introduction if you're curious enough!
I just found you my friend :) Incredible video. I've been playing these games since day one and didn't know about that color correlation with the portals.. and that's really cool :) Thank you for making this.
You're amazing on analysing on kh games and bringing interesting theories too. I hope to see more about your thoughts on khux, kh3, and kh3:remind as well more on the future. Have a nice night and happy late New Year. Awesome and fantastic video as always. This so good.
I have a question (maybe stupid) regarding Xehanort´s portal in KH3. While I understood everything else thanks to your amazing videos this still bothers me a little. Why before entering "dream" Scala at Caelum didn't Sora, Goofy and Donald pass through Xehanort's station of awakening? Is this simply due to the fact that Xehanort was completely awake while being struck by Sora and creating that portal? Or is there something else to understand? Thanks for anyone who could possibly give me an answer! :)
Not related to this topic, but I didn't find any online discussion ( so far) about the fact that there is a MoM simbol on a whiteboard in yen sid's tower, clearly noticable during the 7 guardians united scene.. any theories on this?
So I personally think that Yen Sid drew it to refer to Scala ad Caelum, not in reference to the MoM himself (but I could still be wrong, ya never know). I had written to a comment once before that I believe Yen Sid, Xehanort, and Eraqus may know of the Book of Prophecies from possibly being taught about it when they're younger. And that would explain why kid Xehanort could quote "On that land shall Darkness prevail and Light expire". However, given the Re:Mind trailers, as well as the youtube channel 13th Vessel being able to hack into the chess room, I now believe that it's possible that Yen Sid truly was just writing about Scala ad Caelum itself since the board drawing matches the entire symbol found in the chess room (while the Book of Prophecies symbol itself is missing little pieces). There's also the Scala ad Caelum _written language_ found on the board, most notably the Numeral for 7 in the bottom right corner which is the same symbol on the face of the main tower in SaC, which also really leads me to believe Yen Sid was drawing the symbol in reference to the SaC world, and not necessarily to the MoM himself. BUT, like I said, I could be wrong!
@@TheSecretReports I think that the 7 extra pieces could actually forshadow the 7 deadly sins, since its common to associate them with the fortellers, I belive that it is safe to say that Eraqus , Yen and Xeanorth know about the book, since we know them to have conversations about the last page. (That doesn't confirm what they know about the simbol tho, or what they don't know) BUUT Xeanorth does say that every "taught" ( I guess) keyblade wielder knows those words, so maybe they just know the last page but not about the book as whole, but than again what do I know... I just don't think Nomura would put it there without a reason, especially clearly visable like that, and honestly Yen couldn't have known that the final battle would take place in SaC so why would he draw it now? But then again Yen Sid tends to just know stuff when plot requiers him to, looking foward to Re:Mind. Also btw your channel is beyond amazing, you put so much work into your videos and it shows, you deserve much more attention. Work hard and hopefully you will get there. Best of luck
There's one thing i don't get. Out of all the dream remnants Joshua had to use as a portal, why Rhyme's dreams? For the sake of argument, if we're making some kind of connection to TWEWY, wouldn't it make sense to use Neku's dream given their relationship in their home game?
![Donnie Darko: "Liquid Spear Waltz" [Synthesia]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RodMsJv-WbA/mqdefault.jpg)
Is this your first Dream Drop Discuss video? Be sure to watch the other videos that may answer any questions you have on Sleeping Keyholes or Xehanort's dream of Scala ad Caelum!
ua-cam.com/play/PL8sWF-K6JsKmHDZ072-H5vg1Y9i6TYz0H.html
I tried to do something new with this video, and color correct cutscenes to make them fit in more with the 'vibe' of the video. Let me know if that's a hit or miss LOL
*If I see any FAQ, I'll answer them here :)*
_"There are two Traverse Towns because Riku is in Sora's dreams, so we are experiencing both Joshua's Traverse Town as Sora, and Sora's Traverse Town as Riku"_
I'm aware of Riku being in Sora's dreams, definitely-- I mention it in the video. I still believe there's more to that situation however:
*1.* Sora and Riku are active at the same time (it's not a "Riku's active when Sora's asleep" situation, Traverse Town and Country of Musketeers proves they're active simultaneously).
*2.* temporary projection of _both_ Traverse Towns that's not present in _any_ other Sleeping World (the scene that occurs when Riku and Sora unlock Traverse Town for the 1st visit).
*3.* Riku is somehow on the _same_ Sleeping World That Never Was, because Riku sees Sora's sleeping body when he fights the Anti Black Coat. This is *before* Riku wakes up in the real TWTNW.
*4.* Traverse Town was already split _before_ Riku's arrival when he dived into Sora's dreams. We know this from listening between the lines of Joshua, Beat, and Neku, they they're split apart from each other long before Sora and Riku's arrival in the two Traverse Towns.
So my point is, I believe there's more to the situation then "There are two Traverse Towns because Riku is in Sora's dreams" or else Riku couldn't see Sora in Dream TWTNW, and if he could see him, Sora would only be a projection like he was in Traverse Town. I hope this makes sense. Clearly this trays away from portals, which is why I left it out LOL.
Wait a minute. I just realize something. The final world is connected to the sleeping realm.
What comes before death usually? Endless sleep. So that implies that the final world is beyond the realm of sleep
Your videos have no business being this good...
Thank you John!!
The reason there are two Traverse Towns is because the one Sora goes through is the one that Joshua dreamed up, while the one Riku goes through is within Sora's dream.
(Couldn't find a script of the entire conversation, so here's Joshua's half)
"Riku. There's something else you need to know. These two Traverse Towns separated by the Portal... I was under the impression they were parallel worlds, but it looks like I was wrong."
- telling Riku about the world.
"That's where it gets tricky. After you and Sora left, Shiki crossed the Portal to join her Game partner. Did you notice Players have a mission timer inscribed on their hands? Well, when she got to the other side, Shiki had more time left on her clock than her partner. And when Beat's partner crossed over from the other side, she had LESS time left."
- when Riku asks how Joshua is wrong.
"Yes, I understand that. But if these Traverse Towns were parallel worlds, then time would flow the same in both. But it doesn't, ergo they are not parallel worlds."
- when Riku says that any two worlds run on different time axes.
"No. Impossible. The worlds are clearly separate-it's not just time that sets them apart. As you yourself noted, every world flows at its own pace, which tells me that for all their similarities, these are two distinct worlds."
- when Riku asks if he means there is a past and a future of the world.
"Yes...but this is all conjecture. It's like the same world imagined by two people. What does that tell you? That we're in..."
- Joshua continues.
"Yes. Bravo again, Riku. In which case none of this may matter one bit to me or my friends. But to you and Sora, I think it might be vital clue."
- when Riku understands that they are in a dream.
That was one of the clues we were given that Riku was inside of Sora's dream, and it explains the reason we have two versions of each of the worlds we're visiting, not just Traverse Town: one is the place where Sora is and the other is a reflection inside Sora. After all you're supposed to switch over to Riku only when Sora does a drop, meaning he fell to sleep as illustrated with the first drop in Traverse Town, so Riku would be in whatever world Sora was when he succumed to sleep, and Riku's playtime ends when Sora wakes up. Joshua doesn't know about Xehanort so he doesn't know why the second dream happened, and since it doesn't really affect him or his friends he doesn't care, but he's aware it might be related to the only other two people who showed up and thus let's them know
It's also noteworthy that time flows differently in the dream version of a world. Not regarding the topic at hand, but just in general
venabre this right here. Totes what’s going on
Related to this, Joshua "should" be able to exist in both of these. The first one because he created it, and the second because Sora dreamed up Joshua(and everyone else) in dream Traverse Town.
But without a portal, Joshua shouldn't be able to travel between these, as he's neither a human being nor a keyblade wielder. I guess the main reason he needs one is to "sync" the Joshuas in each Traverse Town so that they're "actually" the same person instead of just reflections of each other.
That dialogue helps a lot but how would Riku have entered Sora's dream and you don't necessarily have to go to the same worlds with Sora and Riku at the same time, it is implied that you do because of level. However, take Le Cite Des Cloches as an example: while the implication is that Riku arrived in Traverse Town after Sora, he arrives in Le Cite Des Cloches BEFORE Sora (while we don't know for sure but the implication is that Wargoyle was beaten by Riku, fell off of Notre Dame, then was defeated by Sora). If the argument is how much time they spent in the world, Drop-Me-Nots, aside they spend about the same amount of time awake and asleep. Also, realistically, Riku couldn't have been faster leaving town for the windmill and back than for Sora to getting to the Court of Miracles. Sure, Sora gets knocked out but that isn't a "drop" according to the game and they both fight Wargoyle, a nightmare that Riku saw first and fought twice, making it not original to Sora.
Edit: Another realization. Unless I'm missing something, If Riku was in Sora's Dream, that would mean Young Xehanort would have to go through Riku before being able to trap Sora, or Riku would have to leave before Sora was trapped but I'm not completely sure if that happens chronologically that way. Because there is the specific instance of Riku "almost waking Sora up".
@@benedict6962
I think it might have more to do with Xehanort.
Xehanort split the Toy Box world and pulled apart the people from there, so maybe he did the same with Traverse Town.
Xehanort used the Players to get to Sora and Riku. In order to manipulate them he needed to first separate them. He probably also made sure to send Joshua to the version of Traverse Town that was made up of Sora's dream (Riku's Traverse Town) in order to keep him away from Rhyme.
I do believe that there only is one version of Joshua.
Joshua and the rest of the Players weren't dreamed up by Sora. Joshua gathered their dream pieces and put them in dream Traverse Town. Then when Sora arrived in dream Traverse Town, Xehanort must have realized that Riku dived into Sora's dream, so he divided the folks from Shibuya and sent Shiki, Beat and Joshua into the other Traverse Town.
@@SchultzDorinda But then why didn't Xehanort just split Shiki and Beat into a reflection that Riku wasn't in?
It makes sense that Traverse town isn't strictly Sora's dream of it, but then wouldn't Riku dive into Sora's dream of Traverse town, rather than the split version? What information do we have on the splitting, I can't remember anything meaningful from Toy Box, and Joshua flat out says he doesn't know.
yesyesyesyesYES.
Thinking about all this is difficult, but it's very good to know that there is at least some evidence to support the things presented in these games. It's reassuring that the story is following a thread of logic, even if it can be difficult to follow it sometimes. This point about how portals work and how their colors change was really fun to try to wrap my mind around. (love the cricket sound effect over Traverse in Trance!)
I agree. I think Nomura just quietly and casually _showed_ us everything without addressing it, and expected that we immediately understand it.
I can see why this took a while now with those illustrations. :3
I'm seriously blown away by every video you make, the extensive editing, the quality writing, and convincing arguments. Yet another A+ video, I'm shocked at how big of a fan I've become of your channel. I'm excited for the next one! Great job!
Thank you Jordan!!
Oh shit!! KingdomAce in the building!!
7:17 Hey, I think that’s a lucky emblem.
Oh, Come on! i didn't catch it XD
don't start
I love how visually appealing and informative these videos are.
This is incredibly ironic as I was just thinking this morning, "Oh yeah... I wonder if 'The Secret Reports' has anything new?"
Kingdom Hearts is such a big part of me, but WOW it can be sooo complicated!
Love your videos!
Loved the editing done on the TWEWY explanations! So cute :>
This talk on portals now makes me ask how the potential data battles in Re:Mind will be accessed and where.
Listening to Joshua’s speech made me feel all warm and fuzzy again :) I love DDD so much
Thank you for helping clarify what we know about Portals! I recently played through DDD myself with a similar goal in mind, of understanding the story and mechanics of the KH world better. And one of the things that struck me while playing was that particular Portal in TWTNW. Of course there would need to be a Portal to access the rest of the game: Riku’s no longer in the Realm of Sleep! I was always a little sketchy on Joshua using Rhyme as a Portal as well, so thank you for clarifying that too.
Despite my playthrough, I’m very unclear about whether or not the bulk of DDD takes place during KH1 or after Coded, and I still do not understand Sora and Riku’s younger appearance, even in the real world. Although I realize these confusions are outside the scope of this video. You did a fantastic job, and I continue to look forward to your videos!
Mexgar The supposed time travel AND their younger appearances are definitely things I want to go over! If not this next video, then the one after, definitely.
Mexgar basically they get sent back to the moment their world fell to get to the realm of sleep and that’s why they retain their younger form.
wow. Wha-? Where..?
wait, did youtube just actually recommended me a good channel?
I can feel that sweet sweet KH knowledge taking place in my brain. I feel smarter now.
Anrui Murasaki love u 💖💕💗💞
@@TheSecretReports Love u 2 ♥
"Hearts are all around us. You just have to see it for it to become real!"- Sora to Replica Riku #2 in San Fransokyo
Heck yeah!
The Secret Reports uploaded!
More information fo me to gain about my favourite games!
And with each video you upload my understanding of the games is a lot clearer!
Thank you!!!!
P.s. the editing is amazing!
You gotta appreciate the depth that some of these story elements have. :)
They didn't need to do it in a Disney game, but they did and we have a great series because of it.
Thanks for the video! Amazing work as usual. We'll have a video explaining Dream Eaters in deep? That would be awesome.
In a sense, it won't be _about_ Dream Eaters, but they'll be featured heavily in one video. Kinda like how this video was about _portals_ but I had to talk a lot about the TWEWY gang to explain them. It'll be sort of like that!
@@TheSecretReports Oh thanks! I'll be waiting for it!! :D
The Secret Reports I’m really curious about as to why chirithy’s are dream eaters and how the original X and Ux is all now seemingly not in a dream? Would you be touching on that by any chance?
You are really out here doing the lord's work. Seriously incredible, both visually and analytically
So I think the Portal for Sora's is leading to the station is due the protection by the dream eater. Kind of treating it like a drop sequence when you enter the worlds in DDD. But instead of falling since there is an heart here this became the battlefield. Neither Xehanort or Rhyme had dreameater problems and Rhyme at the time didn't have a heart just dreams. (Good video btw I love the use of sound effects.)
I really like the yellow gradient lighting effects on the characters and dream pieces
I haven't finished the video yet, so maybe you bring this up- but when Sora, Donald, and Goofy enter Xehanort's portal, they aren't entering a dream, as far as we know. Mickey and Riku specifically say that they want to use Xehanort's portal through Time to trap him. This seems to imply that they truly did move to the past, but in a manner that doesn't actually affect it. I know it makes less sense that way, but that is how it was explained in the game.
I'd also like to add that I recall Nomura going into more detail about the portals in an interview or Ultimania- he specified that when Ansem SoD first met Young Xehanort and gave him the ability to travel through time, Young Xehanort became a portal, which is what allowed the different Xehanorts to travel through time *through* him. This is also why Master Xehanort is a portal as well- once Young Xehanort became a portal, he remained a portal throughout his life.
So, to recap what this entails; a person can become a portal, *hearts* can travel through those portals, at the very least, and these portals can lead to different points in time, but seemingly *cannot* change the past. I'm assuming this means that the final battle with Xehanort in KH3 took place is a sort of pseudo-past, like a replica of the past that doesn't affect the future?
Second note: Maybe you're just leaving this open for another video, but the Two Traverse Towns was explained in KHDDD, ableit in a confusing way.
There are two TTs because one is within the realm of sleep, and the other is within Sora's dream of the Traverse Town he is currently experiencing. Sora explores TT, drops, and then Riku explores Sora's dream of TT. This happens for every world, but TT is the only one with Joshua within it in order to showcase the separation and travel between them
Hi James! I think you may be also interested in the video on Sleeping Keyholes that I created before this one. In that, I discuss how Scala ad Caelum in KH3 may be only a dream from Xehanort's memory in the same way that Riku entered a dream Destiny Islands from Sora's memory. In both places, people either weren't there (SaC) or people who shouldn't be were (Ventus, Roxas, Xion aren't literally at Destiny Islands, just inside Sora's heart). And both places had people enter via Sleeping Keyholes. I think you should watch it if you haven't yet :)
As for YX becoming a portal, I talk about in Dream Drop Discuss's introduction that I don't actually discuss it in this series because I'm not 100% sure how it works. And I don't always like to rely on Ultimanias for logic and understanding because there have been times that Nomura has later contradicted himself or changed his mind. I'm sure for now that you're right about Young Xehanort, but I don't just want to talk about things on this channel unless I really feel like I understand it. I hope that's okay!
I'd like to add one more thing- I apologize if all this seems rude. I'm not trying to "correct" you per say, but I really love the level of quality and effort you put into these videos, and want to make sure you know everything you need in order to further your analyses.
Now, regarding portals- I think this is something that has needlessly confused people due to DDD, but I'd like to clarify based on lore and things Nomura has confirmed. I don't think Portals are exclusive to sleep and dreams, but rather, they're exactly what they sound like- portals, linking two places or times. It makes sense that there'd be portals into dreams, portals between dreams, portals through time, etc, because they'ere all just that: portals. Xehanort is a portal through time, while portals in DDD are used to traverse dreams.
As for Sleeping Keyholes, they're used to enter/exit the realm of sleep, as well as lock/release sleeping worlds and hearts. I like to think of it like a needle that can thread through these "bubbles" of sleep- you need to use the needle to enter the realm of sleep in the first place (the largest bubble), and then use that needle to enter the bubbles within as well (the sleeping worlds)
@@AlphaOblivion7 I agree James! I actually did all this research a long time ago in April. So I'm well versed and well prepared with how portals and sleeping keyholes work. I tried to explain in the video that portals aren't exclusive to the Realm of Sleep and dreams, by mentioning the blue portals. So far it seems, all the pink ones are connected to sleep and dreams. But I absolutely agree with you that in general, they do connect two things.
_"There are two TTs because one is within the realm of sleep, and the other is within Sora's dream of the Traverse Town he is currently experiencing"_ And I see where you're coming from for this, definitely. Before KH3, this was how I interpreted this situation. But we have to remember that when Sora and Riku unlock Traverse Town for their visit, both Sora and Riku are "conscious" (I'm using that word cause clearly they're asleep, it's DDD LOL) at the same time. We see Joshua talking to them both at the same time. So in this instance, it's not "Riku is awake because Sora dropped" because Sora isn't dropped in that instance. I definitely agree that Riku is within Sora's dreams, but I still personally think the coincidence that Toy Box is also split, and both Toy Box and Traverse Town were being monitored by Young Xehanort is too big of a coincidence. Especially now that Verum Rex, a videogame within Toy Box, is showing to take a much larger part in the KH franchise. I still believe at the moment that Traverse Town being split has something to do Young Xehanort.
Sleeping Keyholes, like I said in my last reply, I definitely discuss in detail in a separate video, so I already know their functions. I do like your analogy a lot!
@@TheSecretReports Hi, thanks for the response! : )
I understand now, and I agree about the Ultimania thing. Nomura has definitely contradicted himself a few times in the past in those and in interviews
In that case, I'm really excited to see your future videos and how you break down the lore of the world of Kingdom Hearts. Thanks for putting so much effort into these videos!
Another day,another ep of Dream Discuss.And overall it was fantastic.I learn so much thanks to Portals(like what both have comon with sleeping keyholes as well connection to Worlds End With You(I wonder if canon,now I think about it).I love your theory about the colors of the Portals and visual style is really fantastic and it not only add charm,but also makes me smile.😊😊😊
Amazing job.See you in next video
Very interesting video and from technical point of view amazing, you did a very good job!
Awesome vid all the pictures and drawings helped so much, my head hurts slightly less now thank you.
Your videos are so amazing!! I love the content of course and the editing too! All the images and text are layed out so nicely! You're really talented! I can't wait to see more from you!!
Thank you!! Loving your art! :O
@@TheSecretReports Oh! Thank you for checking out my channel!! 😄❤
Still am in love with that Portal in TWTNW in Riku's story. Even if they didn't have time to model grown-up Riku in his dream clothes, they still went the extra mile to ensure that the gameplay and story were properly connected. I love this game :)
I'm pretty sure the whole different times for two traverse towns was meant to be our biggest hint that Riku was actually in Sora's dreams. Essentially both went back in time to destiny islands then when they both fell asleep riku jumped a second level into Sora's dreams, hence two different worlds this could also explain why sora still had his same outfit when he entered the organization world because riku was still in his dreams.
Now you're thinking with portals.
Excellent video as always. It's always great to walk away from your videos having a better understanding of certain parts of the series. DDD is such an amazing mess of new and crazy concepts. I'm glad you're taking time to go step-by-step in explaining them.
😊👍
There are two traverse towns for the same reason there are two versions of all the world in DDD: because Riku is within Sora's dream version of that world. Joshua even hints at this when talking to Riku in the second visit. So Sora is in the original one, that Joshua dreamed up, while Riku is inside Sora's heart, experiencing Sora's dream of the same place.
3:59 - 4:18 This is no different then what Darkness said to Maleficent about the laws of time travel. Cast your body and your heart can travel at the speed of light into the future. But in doing so, without a body, you will be no different than a ghost. *However, so long as you have an intermediary (Pete?) and others who remember you, you’re heart will take shape.* This can also be said about Ansem (Xehanort/Terra/Eraqus🤯) when his heart travelled in time. The only thing he didn’t have
Not sure if this was talked about in another video, but I feel like the reason Sora and Xehanort respectively have a dreamed up Destiny Islands and Scala ad Caleum in their hearts is because it's what they consider their homes. Xehanort might come from Destiny Islands, but he never or rarely felt like he belonged there, and since he didn't inherit the land of departure and travelled the worlds, he never really settled in anywhere after obtaining his mark of mastery. Scala ad Caellum is probably the last place he ever felt at home at. Both their hearts contain a dreamed up, a living memory, of the place they consider home, it's a part of who they are. The concept of home isn't even something new to the series, as "a place to belong" was an important plot point in 358/2 Days.
AlphaXXI I think that’s a great point! If Xehanort truly does consider Scala ad Caelum his home, it only makes me want to a game of him in his youth all the more haha. Cutscenes of a chess game can only answer and satisfy so much
The reason for two Traverse Towns is explained later on in DDD, and it's the same reason there's two versions of every other sleeping world - one is the world's dream, and one is Sora's dream of that world. (Although in Traverse Town's case it might be that one is Joshua's dream and one is Sora's dream.)
Because Sora is asleep while he explores the sleeping world's, he's dreaming up new versions of them simultaneous with his experiences in them.
The graphics and sound effects are so satisfying aaaaa
I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the theory stuff but thanks to these videos I finally feel like I'm starting to understand :D
I really needed this one lmao thank you so much for visualizing these
this channel has been on my radar for a few months but i have yet to check it out as i hadnt beaten all the games yet. well today i have finally beaten 3 and remind, and i thought i had a pretty good grasp of the what's what, but this has just blown me away. there is unbelievable depth to this series that i hadnt even scratched the surface on. thank you for this video and all of your other ones as well
Oh no, Xehanort being awake during the dream portal exploration process just gave me HUGE ID: Invaded vibes...
Aaaaah I love this!!!! TWEWY is my favorite game ever, and I love how you bring the two games together! 😍😍😍
I saw this again today and Hannah you might wanna keep an eye out for my next video haha!
Guys!!!
I seriously love your videos, even though y’all don’t have the most consistent video schedule but all the videos you upload have amazing quality in everything and I love that. Thank you for making all these amazing KH related videos!! :)
3:10 i wonder if this is how Riku is going to take back Sora after KH3
This is so complicated, but I think I have a grasp on it. At least there is the sweet traverse town theme to jam out to while being confused lmao
This video might be a good spot to find some ingredients.
You SNAPPED with another great video 😌. I love your videos sooo much. appreciate all the time and hard work you put in each of your videos
Now we're thinking with Portals
I seriously understood none of this but I admire the effort out into this.
The effort that you put into the graphics for these video essays is so amazing!! Everything looks so clean and every video I’ve seen from you is cohesive from start to end. Keep up the amazing work! This really refreshed my passion for the lore!
[SPOILERS] I also wonder if any of what Joshua mentions of his friends being rebuilt from their dream pieces ties in/foreshadows what we see of Sora in The Final World. Whereas Joshua is the one thing keeping his friends together, Kairi is the one keeping Sora together. Sofa rebuilds himself from each piece of him similarly, and maybe just by seeing and acknowledging the souls/stars he is helping them regain their whole selves. Maybe Traverse Town seems a parallel purpose to Shibuya in the KH3 ending. A 2nd Shibuya, where Sora can take refuge while he rebuilds himself(?)
Long post but I really love this video and your series in general, you're really doing your research. I've been saying this since the secret movie released but I have a suspicion that Nomura wrote 3D Traverse Town as foreshadowing for the next game after KH3. I'm not sure if it is directly related to TWEWY though, but what happens to Neku and his friends could be very similar to what happened to Sora at the end of 3. His existence came to an end. The main reason I think this is because the Shibuya and Shinjuku we see are different colors and one has the fictional Scala Ad Caelum language all over the signs in Shibuya while I caught a glimpse of Romaji signs in Shinjuku where Riku was. And in the Verum Rex trailer we also see that Yozora's Tokyo only uses Japanese and English signs, not the fake Kingdom Hearts language. So I'm inclined to believe that Sora and Riku have been separated into different worlds like the Traverse Town and Toy Box were. Riku seems to be in the Verum Rex world with Yozora, but Sora is somewhere else with the Master of Masters maybe. That's my current theory.
Nice one catching onto the sleeping world portal colors too. At first I thought the yellow ones meant something else but then I noticed TWTNW portal matches the color of the world inside, so in truth the only confirmed colors are the pink and blue ones.
And on Scala Ad Caelum, I agree that it's just a dream or a figment of Xehanort's memory like Sora's Destiny Islands that Riku went to, kind of like an inner world, and it's Scala because it was a place important to Xehanort in his youth. Another thing that separates Scala from your standard sleeping world is the buildings being rock solid all the way through, we know the buildings can be entered in sleeping worlds, but in Xehanort's dream it's just an illusion, scratch the surface and you see that. Curiously, buildings in the Realm of Darkness are rock solid too, like Cinderella's Castle Town in 0.2, sort of like they've crystalized. It's another one of those things they've never explained but it's consistent throughout the series. Sorry for the monologue, looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts on things in future videos.
That first paragraph ugh YES!!! That's exactly my train of thought too, and I plan on finishing Dream Drop Discuss with a theory on how Sora is in the same position as the TWEWY gang in DDD. I just know that before I do that, I have to explain everything else, which is part of the reason why it's going to be the final [planned] video of the series. But I completely agree with you!
And I never thought about how Xehanort's dream and how the buildings can't be entered, super interesting! It's kinda like how everyone is missing too. If it was a sleeping world with it's events being repeated, you'd think there would be citizens/NPCs that are figments of the world's dream too. Because the SaC in KH3's climax shows all the signs of being just within Xehanort's dreams, I can't help but wonder if something's happened to the real Scala ad Caelum, resulting in Xehanort and Eraqus now living in the Land of Departure with a broken castle that clearly is detached besides the chains connected to the rock columns.
this was so fun to listen to and consider. Thank you for creating such amazing content!
This video is definitely a HIT well explained i must say
All of your videos are absolutely fantastic, clear and concise. My hunger for informations and theories is never satiated, but this... this does put a smi- wait no, wrong franchise.
I'm really looking forward to your next videos!
Great video as always! Although I thought the reason there were two traverse towns was because one was the actual sleeping world (Sora's visit) while the other was Sora's dream of that sleeping world(Riku's visit). It also explains why the two are on different timelines (one being ahead and one being behind as explained by Josua on the second visit). It also makes sense because Riku is technically going through Sora's dreams as his dream eater. But thats just my understanding; I'm not sure if its accurate!
edit: I just read someone's comment on this same topic, sorry for the duplicate point!
This is really interesting, and very well constructed! Thanks for uploading!
I think there is an explanation as to why there are 2 Traverse Towns: Sora’s version is Rhyme’s dream, and Riku’s is Sora’s dream of Rhyme’s dream. This extends to every world in the game, in fact. The reason the two never cross paths and the stories in each world contradict each other at points is because Sora is always exploring the dream of the world while Riku is exploring Sora’s dream of the world.
When You Understand Dream Drop Distance More Than Nomura Does.
ok but i burst out laughing when you said Realm of Death, its just so weird hearing an academic voice discussing the behavior of death. Really good video brw
You have just earned a new subscriber. I thought I was the only one to care about the portals and their purpose/meaning!
It's fascinating to me that both worlds that are split into that we've seen instances of, being toy box and this version of traverse Town; both of which have appearances of young xehanort and connections to some version of Tokyo. Shibuya and TWEWY and Shinjuku and the world of Verum Rex. Hopefully a lot more of this will be cleared up in the REmind dlc.
kazune414 Definitely, something’s fishy! If not ReMind, then hopefully the next game after it.
To answer why there are two Traverse Towns: I believe DDD answers this. Riku, through almost the entire journey of the game, was traversing Sora's Dreams. Every part of Riku's journey was slightly different from Sora because of this, because each world reflected on Sora's own memories and experience of the world. Traverse Town was split because of the nature of Sora & Riku's journey. As for why TWEWY cast was split up, that's never fully explained, but I think we can assume this happened as soon as Sora & Riku showed up.
God damn this video is my aesthetic! This is soo good and so creative 😭😭😭
Your theories are fantastic and well constructed, but you also deserve MAJOR props on the editing (assuming you edit your own videos), it's honestly close to top tier and really helps people understand what you're talking about easier, and adds even more to the overall high quality of your theories and videos. You deserve far more attention than you've received so far, I'm spreading your channel to the KH fans I know, it's not much but it's what I can do to help you receive the attention you deserve.
Oh thank god. I just got into your videos and i thought you kinda gave up from the great editing you do
Don’t worry, I have a LOT of things I want to talk about! But I don’t want to create this idea that I have a “schedule” for uploads like channels usually have, because I know that my videos will take a long time to make. And they may be tedious to make, but it’s a great outlet for my creativity. So I don’t plan on giving up anytime soon LOL
Nice video!! I always appreciate people who do their homework before making a video. There's still one question that bugs me, though. How are Sora and Riku still able to interact with each other, albeit very indirectly? This is also acknowledging the fact that the worlds Riku's exploring are Sora's dream versions. If your house analogy in the video is anything to go by, it's like if Neku flips a switch in a room in one house and the other house's room suddenly goes dark (or light). These sort of instances are especially clear in Fantasia, the Three Musketeers, and Twilight Town. If the two versions of one world are distinctly different, how can people-- or in Riku's case, Dream Eaters--- of one version effect the other (especially when one version is actually someone's own memory of that world)?
Idk, just something that popped in my mind after finishing the video. Perhaps you could cover it in a future video. Thoughts??
I think the world split is explained by Ansem at The World That Never Was in KH3D. The scene where Joshua was explaining to Riku how the two weren't parallel worlds supports this because while Joshua didn't fully understand the implications of the split world, he said that with the intent to warn Riku about his journey. He even describes the two Traverse Towns as if being "the same world imagined by two people"
One is the Dream of Traverse Town, which is where Sora is
The other is Sora's Dream of Dream Traverse Town, which is where Riku is.
Yeah the vague-ish timeline for when the split happened (sometime prior to the two waking up in their 1st visit) makes this tricky, but in the first place the Sleeping Worlds seem to operate on very loose causation; as seen in the Country of Musketeers, or how generally speaking Riku's journey is somehow occuring when Sora's asleep and simultaneously with Sora's journey.
zaqareemalcolm Hello! If you haven’t yet, I also suggest my world on Shibuya and Shinjuku. I think you would enjoy that video as well as it references a few of the points you’ve made
@@TheSecretReports i watched it and liked it, but I still think it's already a solved mystery in this case; personally it's hard to use a sequence of events as evidence of the World split being only by Xehanort's intervention when the same game also establishes that the Sleeping Worlds were already unusual that they only loosely follow linear time, and cause and effect + the narrative itself pointing towards the second Traverse Town being indeed Sora's dream.
This is what I mean when I try to tell my friends that Kingdom Hearts is really complicated and super interesting.
sora is in dream TT, when sora drops or falls asleep / riku enters soras dream of TT and becomes dream eater to destroy soras nightmare
From what I understand of DDD, there are two Traverse Towns (and every other world) because the one Sora’s in is the true sleeping world whereas the ones Riku’s in is Sora’s dreams of those worlds.
Though I may be wrong
So, while that IS the commonly accepted explanation among fans, the problem with that explanation is that the TWEWY gang was already split before Sora or Riku even arrived in Traverse Town. We can tell because characters like Joshua and Neku already seemed pretty used to the idea that they were separated. It's not like either characters seemed super shocked or confused when Sora and Riku arrived, when Riku dove into Sora's dreams. So I figure it must be another reason that explains why the TWEWY gang was split long before Riku dove into Sora's dreams. I hope that makes sense!
This was very well put together!
Great content, as always, the wait for this video was totally worth it! About the blue Portals, I thought that maybe the lore difference between them and the pink ones is that they don't lead you to the Realm of Sleep or the Realm of Death, but you remain in the real world when travelling through them, while the others either are used to travel between the real world and one of those places or are already in the RoS/RoD
Well, my head was spinning at first, but I think I understand it a little better now. I'll probably have to watch it a few more times though.
FriendlyAndroid Studios I do recommend you watch Sleeping Keyholes too if you haven’t, that might answer other questions you may have :) Lemme know if you have questions!
Thank you so much. I will definitely do that.
Your editing is god tier, maybe discuss about realm of darkness for future video ideas ?
Your videos always look so nice! Good work! Jesus Christ be with you friend!😊
I thought there are two traverse towns because one of them is soras dream (the one Riku is in).
Wow, I never gave that much mind to portals until I saw this video. Great work.
Some of the best informative and high quality kh content on UA-cam!
One thing that I just realised is that it’s sorta made clear from the encounter Riku had after he defeated the hooded figure with the red eyes in The world that never was, yeah that conversation with Ansem (heartless ansem) that he was traversing through Sora’s dreams, hence the reason why they are separated in the first place. Soras actually unlocking the sleeping worlds while Riku is... unlocking soras dreams of the sleeping worlds I guess??? (Honestly still working on that theory) but in the case of portals. Couldn’t you say that the reason why their are 2 travers towns in the first place is because theirs The actual Sleeping Travers town and the Sora Sleeping Travers town (that being the one Rikus going though) and that for some reason and somehow... Sora and Joshua are deeply connected? I mean it just seems odd because it’s basically said that Riku is Soras Dream eater in a sense... (my brain hurts now 😂)
The issue I have with "one is the actual Sleeping World and the other is Sora's dream of it" is that even before Sora and Riku arrive in Traverse Town, the TWEWY gang had already been separated for what seems quite a while. We would have to see Neku is a state of shock or confusion because the two worlds would have JUST had to split right when Sora arrives. But Neku has clearly long been aware that his partner is separated from him. Even Joshua seems used to the idea that there are two Traverse Towns by the time Riku arrives. So this goes to tell me, that the two Traverse Towns were split long before Sora and Riku arrived, and thus it could not be because Riku is experiencing Sora's dreams of it.
now you're thinking with portals
Charming and insightful as always.
I just need to point this out (perhaps better comments will be edited in later), at 1:07 If Riku is in the real world, how is he able to use a Keyblade/Keychain from the Sleeping Realm? Shouldn't the appearance be Way to the Dawn, similarly to how Kingdom key, not two scenes later, takes its original appearance when specifically in Sora's dream and not in the Sleeping Realm which most of the game takes place in?
Edit: Here's how I see the twin Traverse Town situation, granted this is making an assumption on WHEN Joshua entered Traverse Town and when Sora and Riku do which I'll touch on later. Traverse Town, and the entirety of the Sleeping Realm we see in game is because the realm itself is based on the Dreamers and is warped around their interactions. Since the idea was to have the characters start their journey "from the beginning", their next logical step from destiny Islands is to arrive in Traverse Town. However, one of them either fell into a second sleep or was separated out from the Original Dream. This would occur after Joshua arrived but before he manifested TWEWY gang. Unknowingly, he put them in two different planes and then saw Sora and Riku and assumed that they were also a part of the Dream. In this case, the two Dreamers are either Sora and Young Xehanort, or Riku and Young Xehanort, though admittedly the former because we know Riku is a Dream Eater, making the original Dreamer Sora and Joshua is a caught up third party. (Honestly, while not malicious, his dialogue with Sora doesn't seem entirely truthful.) As I mentioned on another video, at the first Sleeping Keyhole we see, Sora and Riku are not only together but one is definitely awake and the other is unmoving (the keyblade does all the work). So, it is possible that Sora fell into a second sleep while Riku remained in the original, but since Riku manifested as a Dream Eater and not a Dreamer, he was not capable of fully exiting the Dream without being on the same plane as Sora (as we talked about before). It is also possible, since Dream Eaters can move between planes/ different states of sleep (as we see Sora and Riku can literally share the same Dream Eaters) that Young Xehanort simply moved Riku into a plane that he did not enter the Sleeping Realm in, to which Riku was not aware, and only through Sora could he figure out how to escape (also in line with what we discussed before). This is also implied by what appears to be a slight delay between Sora and Riku entering Traverse Town. It could be that since Sora was asleep during the first keyhole, that was when he entered Traverse Town, or that the split caused Riku to arrive much later. Either way, I would say the split was cause by Young Xehanort and Sora was the catalyst. In The Toy Box, this was likely a continuation of the same experiment, but assumedly in the "Real World" instead of the Sleeping Worlds. They started with data, then went to dreams, then they applied it practically, however we don't fully know for what or how.
Dont ever stop making these, they're fantastic. Your channel is about to blow up
I always assumed that every world in DDD had two versions, the slepping world itself, and the version Sora dreamed.
Another amazing video! Worth the wait! Always love your illustrations, they really add a lot to your videos (:
I was curious about some things. With the pink portals in 3D, there are two separate interactions with them: Spawning different dream eaters and entering a fight. Some of the blue portals seem to do the same thing in KH3, but other times you do transport somewhere else, so maybe you really are just transporting spirits/ nightmares to your location. But I find that a bit odd since their functionality doesn't seem to differ too much in my opinion. Also, the yellow and dark purple seem to make sense with what you're saying. I was wondering too about the dream and death realms, since I really only have 3 realms in my head cannon: light, dark and inbetween. I'd be curious to discuss more with you, especially with TWTNW, since this still seems to house spirits/ nightmares even though it is supposedly in the real world. And the same with Tron's world.
Again, amazing video, always enjoy watching them when they pop up!
"so maybe you really are just transporting spirits/ nightmares to your location." oh my god I didn't even THINK about that LOL!! That makes a LOT of sense.
And I do want to talk about spirits and nightmares in a future video. And maybe even take certain pieces across this series and make a completely separate video for the Grid itself. As I still *personally* believe Young Xehanort when he says it's a real world, and I think I can explain a lot about why things associated with sleep occur in it. But if I do, I want to approach it in a way that's not me saying "The Grid is DEFINITELY asleep" or "DEFINITELY awake" but rather "here are factors that point to either possibilities".
But a lot of what I plan to make a video of, I already talk about in an analysis I did in April. Its a bit rough cause 1. I'm not as polished in my thinking and 2. it's ALL text. But there's a link to it in the description of Dream Drop Discuss's introduction if you're curious enough!
I swear i cant wait for the next video
I love your videos soo much you are amazing please keep continuing to make outstanding content
I just found you my friend :) Incredible video. I've been playing these games since day one and didn't know about that color correlation with the portals.. and that's really cool :) Thank you for making this.
How is this so high quality with so little subs??
These portals are more clear now xD gracias
This is really high quality content!
Your videos are so good it's unbelievable. Great job, seriously!
Would love a _Kingdom Hearts_ and _Portal_ crossover!
Your MIND! A true lump of an intellectual
ASLDKFJA ASLDKFJASDF
Unparalled quality as always :)
My brain: wtf is going on with this series Nomura you madman
You're amazing on analysing on kh games and bringing interesting theories too. I hope to see more about your thoughts on khux, kh3, and kh3:remind as well more on the future. Have a nice night and happy late New Year. Awesome and fantastic video as always. This so good.
Those illustrations 😭😍
I have a question (maybe stupid) regarding Xehanort´s portal in KH3. While I understood everything else thanks to your amazing videos this still bothers me a little. Why before entering "dream" Scala at Caelum didn't Sora, Goofy and Donald pass through Xehanort's station of awakening? Is this simply due to the fact that Xehanort was completely awake while being struck by Sora and creating that portal? Or is there something else to understand?
Thanks for anyone who could possibly give me an answer! :)
I LOVE THESE VIDEOS
god im enjoying your videos so much
Not related to this topic, but I didn't find any online discussion ( so far) about the fact that there is a MoM simbol on a whiteboard in yen sid's tower, clearly noticable during the 7 guardians united scene.. any theories on this?
So I personally think that Yen Sid drew it to refer to Scala ad Caelum, not in reference to the MoM himself (but I could still be wrong, ya never know). I had written to a comment once before that I believe Yen Sid, Xehanort, and Eraqus may know of the Book of Prophecies from possibly being taught about it when they're younger. And that would explain why kid Xehanort could quote "On that land shall Darkness prevail and Light expire". However, given the Re:Mind trailers, as well as the youtube channel 13th Vessel being able to hack into the chess room, I now believe that it's possible that Yen Sid truly was just writing about Scala ad Caelum itself since the board drawing matches the entire symbol found in the chess room (while the Book of Prophecies symbol itself is missing little pieces). There's also the Scala ad Caelum _written language_ found on the board, most notably the Numeral for 7 in the bottom right corner which is the same symbol on the face of the main tower in SaC, which also really leads me to believe Yen Sid was drawing the symbol in reference to the SaC world, and not necessarily to the MoM himself. BUT, like I said, I could be wrong!
@@TheSecretReports I think that the 7 extra pieces could actually forshadow the 7 deadly sins, since its common to associate them with the fortellers, I belive that it is safe to say that Eraqus , Yen and Xeanorth know about the book, since we know them to have conversations about the last page. (That doesn't confirm what they know about the simbol tho, or what they don't know)
BUUT Xeanorth does say that every "taught" ( I guess) keyblade wielder knows those words, so maybe they just know the last page but not about the book as whole, but than again what do I know...
I just don't think Nomura would put it there without a reason, especially clearly visable like that, and honestly Yen couldn't have known that the final battle would take place in SaC so why would he draw it now?
But then again Yen Sid tends to just know stuff when plot requiers him to, looking foward to Re:Mind.
Also btw your channel is beyond amazing, you put so much work into your videos and it shows, you deserve much more attention. Work hard and hopefully you will get there.
Best of luck
There's one thing i don't get. Out of all the dream remnants Joshua had to use as a portal, why Rhyme's dreams? For the sake of argument, if we're making some kind of connection to TWEWY, wouldn't it make sense to use Neku's dream given their relationship in their home game?
a dream of a dream, a twofold nightmare