i think classism exist but in a lower level than in the 80's or 90's where indigenous ppl were discriminated, but it has gotten better in a lot of areas, now mexican ppl are more proud of their indigenous roots and has a lot of respect for them. more and more ppl are learning the native languages.
@@TheYarbros but now there is a trend that Mexicans with darker skin think they are better than white Mexicans and really hate "whitexicans" and that is racism.
I’m also an outsider here, I’ve lived in Mexico for 4 years. I do agree, from what I’ve observed and from speaking to my Mexican friends, that their is a clear division of classes. But I don’t think that is is a matter of “ I’m better than you, I’m up here and you’re down there” but from what I’ve seen…..it’s an acceptance of one’s station in life. Another aspect that I’ve observed is that regardless of “class” Family is number ONE for all and the grind to reach the top of the mountain is not as it is in the States. For better or worse, people seem to, and I’m generalizing obviously, be okay with their…ummm…status in the economic machine. If you are from a family of leather workers, you might more likely become a leather worker…and so on.
I understand you may not be able to answer this, but do individuals try to change their station in life? Is that a thing there? Is is encouraged and/or accepted? Say a street sweeper suddenly comes into a lot of money, is he and his family no longer seen as the status of street sweepers? Or is his station in life always the same regardless of access to things that used to be inaccessible? (disclaimer due to previous experience with derailed conversations because someone took offense to an example: I do not think street sweepers are lower class people or anything like that. I was just using an example)
@@misstrcarter …When I say that people seem to accept their station in life, I don’t mean how society views them but how they view and accept themselves. While I do see young people wanting to educate themselves and improve their situation, those are, from my limited experience, young people from the middle class. I’m more talking about the acceptance of the working class being just fine with selling street tacos, cleaning houses, being a landscaper…whatever and still being happy, content and family oriented. The number one dream does not seem to be to become rich, it’s to have a family life and enjoy time together. Also, I don’t see wealthier people talking down to others, I more often see people treat each other with respect and refer to them as friend or brother. It’s just not the same programming as in the States.
@@WiseOwl-1 Interesting. Complete opposite from here in the states where it is the cultural norm to aways try to get to that next level. Whether that be a promotion at work, expanding your business, bigger house, newer car or whatever. I'm actually trying to imagine that concept of being just fine with where I was 20 years ago. And while I can't imagine it, I do realize my life would be so less stressful if I could.
@@misstrcarter … IMO, many people in the States are always looking for better and more and when they get the next “thing” that they think will make them finally feel complete…..they realize that the still feel the need for better and more. It’s interesting to look and compare major cities in each country. In Guadalajara, it’s very rare to see people that are obviously homeless, even though there is no social safety net here. The sidewalks and parks are not filled with homeless encampments. I think that it’s because of the family unit here is much stronger. I also don’t see the ravages of illegal drugs in the streets. Yet this is a poor country compared to the USA. Just do a YT search for “Streets of Philadelphia” ….I’ve never seen anything remotely similar in Mexico. Don’t know why, maybe the unattainable American dream is an illusion for some and they just give up.
Yes some Mexicans discriminate against other Mexicans based on their income level .Some Mexicans also discriminate against the indigenous people of Mexico who do not speak Spanish .Also being 40 years old or older in Mexico many Employers will discriminate against you and not hire you,They want younger employees .Yes there is some racism in Mexico but I would say more less Discrimination .
The whole work thing is because they aren’t that many jobs in the first place . 2 degrees play a huge role in Mexico unlike the USA were u don’t need college . Having a degree is part of classism but also with economical status because if u got a degree but still at 500 usd a month u still Poot so who cars .
This is a very interesting conversation. Thanks for contributing to it. These are complex topics but in my opinion, racism and classism in Mexico are dynamic and changing... 20 years ago people would for the most part accept the status quo... but people are now becoming more aware of how different forms of oppression work and they are more willing to question them... I, as a Mexican and an outsider to the US, observe differences between the US in Mexico. I am no expert on the US, but what I see is that the US is a society very much based on segregation. People are still classified based on their ethnic background. As a Mexican, it is shocking for me, for instance, that you have forms where you have to declare what your ethnic background is when you apply for a job. People in the US claim that it's for statistical purposes but in my opinion, this perpetuates the labels, the categories, and ultimately, the segregation of different groups... So it is really shocking for me to see that. Also, to hear people say things like "I am a white guy"... of course we see the color of the skin but for a person to make that claim that, as if it was a social identity, it is kind of weird for me. What I think is that the differences between Mexico and the US were shaped in colonial times. Both countries were colonies of European powers, the US being a colony of Britain and Mexico being a colony of Spain. However, the forms of colonization were completely different. The British for the most part wiped out the natives or confined them to reserves. The black people that were brought to the US were enslaved. It was illegal for Europeans to inter-mix with other groups. Some people did mix I guess, but it was a small minority as it was a taboo or illegal. In contrast, a lot of Spaniards who arrived to Mexico intermixed with the natives. Some full-Spanish families, known in Mexico in colonial times as "criollos", also settled in the country and held a lot power and this created a "racial" hierarchy but not as rigid as the one in the US. But there were a lot of differences between the rich and the poor in Mexico and these differences have a legacy in today's society. There was also slavery in the Spanish colonies, not so much in Mexico, but in the Caribbean mostly, but Slavery ended earlier in Spanish colonies. In today's Mexico indigenous peoples suffer from discrimination and poverty and many Mexicans more than openly racist are apathetic towards that reality... A lot of Mexicans don't want to think about that, they are "lazy", but for the most part, they are not openly racist nor hateful. Some more privileged Mexicans are uptight or condescending... but some of them, a minority, are aware of their privileges and they want to see social changes too. And finally, there are Mexicans who are all about power and domination, and like in other societies, they have to be held in check. Anyway, these conversations are very interesting and relevant. I believe that open conversation helps us to get to know each other, and you said, bring understanding. I really like your T-shirt Rondell, because I believe in solidarity too!!. I really like your channel and I am happy to learn that you enjoy life in Mexico. Love from a mexicana :)
First, thanks for communicating. There is a lot of propaganda between our 2 countries. People in both sides misshapen information for different reasons...i.e. it is illegal to ask anyone's ethnicity or race on a job, home, bank...pretty much any application in the US. It is illegal to discriminate based on race, class, gender, religion... Don't get me wrong it is still a racially divided country but not nearly as stark as alot of ppl in MX believe it to be. Also generally other ppl call white folks white and most of the time it is a derogatory statement about "white privilege" which is a whole different conversation. It is not a social identity. Those are just some small examples. Dialog like this is how we achieve understanding and I appreciatethem. Which is why I am replying to this post. I appreciate you seeking understanding just as I am... While the colonizers were different. I maintain that their lasting affects are still similar. Societies torn apart from within...institutions and systems that are inherently biased and simply don't work for #thepeople because they were never meant to take care of ..."The Peoole". The common ppl of MX have much in common with the common ppl of the US in my eyes. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thanks for your reply! You're right, there are a lot of mutual misunderstandings and stereotypes. Good that we're breaking them ;) I have a question, in what situations do Americans have to fill out these forms where they have to declare their ethnicity? I I am asking because I applied for a couple of jobs in the US and in all of these applications I had to declare my ethnicity. These were jobs at universities. I don't know if it is always the case but it was when I made these applications. This was a recent thing. I have also heard or read comments about these forms and sometimes situations like mixed people not knowing what to write in them, but I don't know in what contexts these forms are used. But anyway, I am aware that the US is also a very diverse country and that many people are also very inclusive. And I also know that a lot of people of different origins have prominent roles in the US. Also, about the colonizers. I agree with you... I was not trying to say that some colonizers were "better" than the others. Colonization inflicted a lot of pain and suffering in both societies and around the world. But I was pointing out the differences because I think that they're important so that we can understand both societies and their different mindsets. I believe that Mexico is a very misunderstood country and I often find myself having to explain how it is and why it is like that. I believe that al lot of misunderstandings come from the fact that people want to understand it with the concepts they use in their own countries, but each country's history has its particularities. I also believe that reality is very complex, much more complex than what a concept such as colonialism can convey. For instance, I can tell you that as a Mexican in Mexico, sometimes I was discriminated but not because of my skin or my class, but because I was "the nerd". But I learned to embrace it and even love it :D I also agree with you, we have much more in common to share and celebrate !! Keep up the good work!
I don't know what to tell you about the job situation asking your ethnicity..unless it was for a visa clearance Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers from asking any questions about race or ethnicity w/o exceptions. I was an employer in the states for many years and this rule is always followed. On census forms you may be asked but it is optional everywhere. Civil Right are serious business in the states... Agreed, complex histories and I am hoping for brighter futures! Thanks for the convo!
@@TheYarbros I don't know if my comment was deleted or if I didn't post it, but I thought I had replied to this. Anyway, as I said, as the following link shows, these forms do exist for applications for jobs at universities. As I said in the original comment, universities state that this information is used for statistical purposes. I am not saying that it is not the case, but for me it was still somehow shocking to see that they ask for this information because they only ask for this information in the US. I made applications in other countries too and only US universities asked for this information. In the following link you can see one example of these forms: hr.gwu.edu/bio-demographic-form As I said before, I don’t know a lot about the US but this was just an example of some of the things I find to be different… Don’t want to generalize and of course, now I’m aware that these issue of the forms is not generalized. Thank you for teaching me about that. I hope for a better future for all too, specially for the people who have never seen justice.
You guys are awesome, and your videos are getting better every episode. I live here in Mexico and what you have observed and explained is "real Talk". Thank you. I'm a musician and I live on a predominately working class Mexican street. My music can be heard outside my window, and one day my neighbor invited me to play at a family gathering. I rocked the party, and now we've become great friends. To your point their class seemed to be more open to relate to black people. But you can clearly see that the lighter skinned Mexican have that uppity attitude. Peace!
One of the things I love about Mexico....70% is working class folk and they are so approachable down to earth happy people. ¡Viva México! Thanks for jumping out here to represent!
Back in the 60s my parents came to Monterrey from the central state of Guanajuato, they were farmers, they came looking for a better life, my mother became a nurse after working as a housekeeping in the same hospital she later worked as a nurse! My uncles became electrician techs, they gave birth later to engineers, my aunts give birth to teachers, and lawyers!!! And all of my family step up from a low class farm workers to a middle class within 1 generation!!! I do believe that everyone in Mexico gets a chance to live better!!! But you gotta work for it!!! Nothing is free in Mexico!!! But you’ll need to get your self to work!! There’s opportunities if you want one!!!👍
Hay un problema aún más grande que es la soberbia y egoísmo en nosotros los Mexicanos . Gracias a todas las bendiciones, riqueza cultural , clima etc. algunos mexicanos ya perdieron el piso y sienten que somos mejores que los demás en ves de ser humildes, agradecer y sabernos afortunados ,no mejores. Saludos amigos los queremos gracias por estar aquí en México
That is very interesting because 99.9 percent of all of the people that I have ever met from Mexico have been super nice and friendly/ very welcoming to me and my family. However, I have only been to the country twice in my whole life so I may not have spent nearly enough time there to get a good feel on the current situation. Thank you for your honest opinion though. Cheers and stay blessed my friend. :)
@@aaronhow1932 Obviously, the Mexican is a hypocrite and will never show his true face to a foreigner, because most Mexicans benefit from tourism, that is the reason for his excessive kindness
@@aaronhow1932 it's a sensitive issue they're just sharing their own experience. I have my own experiences with racism/colorism as the granddaughter of a white Mexican man. The white grandchildren were considered the "beautiful" ones and the darker ones like me were considered "ugly". I was rejected by my own blood and grew up feeling less than. Even today as adult I have experienced discrimination outside of my immediate family. It's a social issue that needs to be talked more about in Mexico.
Awesome subject. Thanks for posting this. I am a Native Hawaiian born and raised on the Island of Oahu. I am specifying which Island I am from (there are 8 Hawaiian Islands that make up the “50th State of Hawaii) because I am from the Island where the City of Honolulu is (and the only metropolis of the 8 Islands) I grew up living day to day with MANY races (Asians, Polynesians, Portuguese, Filipinos and Puerto Rican’s) so I never experienced racism. I didn’t know what racism was until I was an adult. I did, however, experience some classism. There is a difference between classism and racism but I can see that the two could possibly overlap. Your point is well taken.
The "Class" would be based on a number of things: Having money and the colour of the skin are probably the obvious ones, but not the main ones. I'd say that the way you dress, the way you talk, how smart you seem to be or the education you have, are more important in "fitting you into a class". (I didn't say that it doesn't matter, off course it does, it's just that it's not the only or the main ones). You belong to the high class when the people that belongs in the high class considers that you belong to their circle. Even if they still make fun of you for whatever thing you have that doesn't fit the bill. You can totally have dark skin and still look like high class and get whatever perks you get for being in that club. If you have dark skin and are poor as well... that's harder to pull it off, but one of those perks is that you can be friends with high class people, and surely they can help you to find a better job. Another way to look at it, is that we mexicans the darker the skin we have, it means that we come from more generations with low self-esteem, and that means that anybody assertive enough looks superior in our eyes. It's really hard to break that mold, but if you manage to break it (low self-esteem) and look assertive enough, you can fool people into believing you're higher class and get the perks...
@JAGWOLF I AGREE WITH YOU,IS NOT THE SKIN COLOR IS THE MANNERS,THE EDUCATION YOUR PARENTS GAVE YOU,WHERE YOUR FATHER WORKS/ED,AND ALSO WHICH SCHOOL DID YOU GO TO,ALSO COLLEGE,PERSONALLY I AM NOT RACIST,BUT FOR EXAMPLE.A MAN WHO HAD ALL WHAT I SAID ABOVE,AND ALSO HAS A GOOD JOB,DRESSES WELL,NOT NECESARILY WITH SUPER EXPENSIVE CLOTHES,BUT KNOWS HOW TO WEAR THEM,FOR A WOMAN IS IMPORTANT TO BE TREATED VERY WELL,WITH RESPECT,AND DOESN'T HAS TO BE "MEGA RICH",JUST TO HAVE A COMFORTABLE WAY OF LIVING IS VERY IMPORTANT,(THERE ARE SOME RICH ONES THAT ALSO BEAT THEIR WIVES AND ARE ASS*OLES),BUT NOT AS THE ONES WHO SINCE THEY WERE BORN HAVE SEEN HIS FATHER GET HOME DRUNK AND BEAT THEIR MOM,IS THE EXAMPLE THE PARENTS GIVE YOU,GOOD ONES OBVIOUS,WHAT A WOMAN LOOKS FOR,IF YOU HAD THE LUCK OF BEING BORN IN A FAMILY WELL KNOWN,AND THE FRIENDS YOU ALWAYS RELATE TO,AND GOING TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS,UNIVERSITIES,IS A PLUS TOO....CLASSISM EXIST FOR A REASON AND THIS REASON IS THAT IF YOU HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH A MAN THAT HIS FAMILY AND HIMSELF NEVER HAD THE SAME THINGS YOU HAD,AND WAS EDUCATED DIFFERENTLY,HE CAN'T TREAT YOU AND OFFER YOU THE SAME YOU ALWAYS HAVE HAD,AND THAT MAKES THE MARRIAGE VERY DIFFICULT,AND THOSE "LITTLE"THINGS BECOME HUGE AFTER THE HONEYMOON STAGE ENDS,IN BOTH WAYS MAN WITH A LESS EDUCATED WOMAN,OR WOMAN LESS EDUCATED THAN MAN,MEANING MANNERS AND VALUES,RESPECT ETC...AND MOST END DIVORCING,I AM SAYING THIS BECAUSE IT HAPPENED TO ME,SO I AM NOT INVENTING ANYTHING...IS NOT EASY TO ADAPT,BECAUSE EVERYONE AIMS TO BE BETTER AND NOT GO LOWER,AND THAT IS WHAT ONE OF THE TWO HAS TO DO,SO IS NOT BECAUSE PEOPLE DOESN'T EVEN TALK WITH PEOPLE WITH LOWER INCOME,OF COURSE EVERYONE DOES,BUT MARRY ONE IS A DIFFERENT THING.
When I moved to Mexico from the US, I lived in an upperclass neighborhood with live-in nannies and housekeepers. I would invite my nanny to dinner or to go out, and everyone told me I couldn’t do that. I ask why? Because “she is not in your class”. Huh 🤔 I didn’t get it until someone explained it in this way. She(the nanny) won’t feel comfortable going to the places you go. She won’t have the wardrobe, the money to pay or even feel like she fits in, and this will make her feel bad about herself. She won’t know the food or drinks on many menus or how to talk to the other patrons. I didn’t like it and thought it was stupid but in the end my nanny and maid both said “we don’t feel comfortable in those places unless we are there in a work capacity” so why would I want to make someone feel bad or uncomfortable! That’s the best way I can describe it, and they know where they belong(their words, not mine) and they’re fine with it. They aren’t ashamed to have a lesser or different life, that seems to be an “American” thing. They don’t pretend or try to be something they’re not, they’re happy. I’ve never heard of anyone suing or anything for “discrimination” in this way.
I think this is only difficult to understand if you've never been on the lower end of this type of relationship? As someone who has only become middle class in adulthood, it would never occur to me to invite a domestic employee to some of the places I go unless they showed extreme curiosity about it. (In which case, they probably desire to social climb which I'd more than happy to assist. lol) Otherwise, it's a burden to be in a space for which you are not prepared. It would be better to bring experiences TO them, like certain foods or gifts. They can decide on their own if they want to experience more of it or not.
¡Bravo! First time I hear someone hit the nail, CLASSISM actually does intersects with RACISM in México and comes all the way from the conquest. Rich people were the Spaniards and Indigenous were the poor, all of this also intersects with MALINCHISMO which is repudiation by own, which kind of sounds similar to what you were saying some people experience in the US too. Through generations races mixed making race not easy to detect but classes are, if people have money most likely they will be treated better. Best way for you to see an obvious example of this would be in hotels, pay attention on how foreigners are treated better than Mexicans, or in touristic places people who look wealthy will be treated better, or fancy night clubs, rich looking people will be allowed in faster. I’m glad you had the courage to talk about this important issue and understanding it really good. Sending good vibes🎉👏
@@TheYarbros You should read articles over an incident between Mexico and USA that happend not that long ago. It had to do with a misunderstanding of a mailing stamp. Mexico was celebrating 50 yrs (I think) of "MEMIN PENGUIN" a beloved cartoon character that (I think) was created in the 1950's. This cartoon character was a black Cuban boy and his family that came to Mexico for a better life. The U.S. government found out about this mailing stamp and the African American community went crazy😵 and demanded that the U.S. government due something about it. The Mexican government explained to the American government but without success. Eventually the Mexican government had to remove the stamp from circulation. Sometimes when you have been conditioned for many years to think one way it's hard to break that mentality to the point that it becomes paranoiac
@@checolate9680Well not my Mexican lol 😂 He White-Mexican and he met me in America and we got married and he loved me every sense. It nice because we are that 1 in a million and i can always tell my kids mommy is 1 in a million in daddy eyes lol like the lottery. Thats how i know I’m special and lucky 😂 Why he a rich Mexican. Well at least his parents is. Now his gated community My husband parents gated community in Mexico.. Imagine being the only minority that is an American. That also have brown skin that is none Mexican inside the gates lol. Ignorance, curiosity etc.. I remember once we was walking at night this security guard car was driving in the back 100 feet just probably watching us walk.. My husband like.. i live here like all defensive and clueless, but in my mind I’m like it probably me lol 😂They arent use to seeing other skin colors besides light skin, especially someone thats is none-Mexican so it’s “How did this happen ?” “Do she belong here?” Yeah someone going to sneak in and get through a guarded private community with high walls that is brown skin lol. Ignorance i tell u. Oh yes the guards change every so often so it new ignorance’s and shockness. The only brown skin people inside during the day is the workers that leave at a certain time a day.. I’m use to it lol.. People stare out of curiosity, hate, intimidation etc. You have to get use to it and have a thick skin because people are cruel and hate anyone different.. It sucks because people say Mexico love tourist. Of course they do, but like u say if u stay in an area u don’t belong u become the “What the hell this brown girl is doing in this area?” Regardless if u are an American lol 😂 I think tourist don’t see it, especially black because everyone knows ok they are tourist, but u start noticing when u with someone that is Mexican and u no longer a tourist in their eyes. It more of “a wtf is this type of thing?” Or how did this happen?” 😂😂😂 You get use to it.. I like being the change in something better. Also we are the 1 in a million couple. My husband also is getting use to it because he seem clueless of racism/classism because he never had to experience it until he with me and now he doing what i do.. pretend u don’t care or notice and keep having your conversation.
I love the shirt you decided to wear for this conversation! It's a big world full of different people that usually want the same basic things in life. The more I learn the more tolerant I become. Keep up the good work. 👍
As Chicanos living in Mexico, we tend to agree with your analysis and comparison of racism and classism. There’s no denying that those two things were conjoined when Europeans came over and enslaved indigenous and black people, forbade them from owning land, or having any political or economic power. Those circumstances created long lasting legacies that are still evident today. And classism is institutionalized - it’s hard to escape this ideology when it is perpetuated in popular culture. Here in Mexico City, a mock-up of Templo Mayor was recently set up in the Zócalo as a commemoration of 500 years of indigenous resistance, a resistance that is ongoing and necessary because these communities are still facing economic and political disenfranchisement and racial discrimination. Thank you for taking the time to investigate these issues on your channel, we really appreciate your respectful tone and your willingness to promote constructive discussion of important topics.
From my limited experience with Mexico, I think one big difference with the U.S. is that the poor classes are not presumed to be lazy or not working hard. This presumption seems to drive a big part of the racist/classist problems in the U.S., the (mistaken) belief that, "If you work hard you'll succeed" leads people to think people who aren't succeeding are lazy and that they don't deserve help. I think it's different in Mexico (and many other places) where it's understood that poor people are in the position they're in largely because they were born into it. So it's not assumed that they're lazy good-for-nothings. There's a philosopher, Michael Sandel, who has written an interesting book relevant to this ("The Tyranny of Merit") and he has lots of youtube lectures on it, e.g.: ua-cam.com/video/Qewckuxa9hw/v-deo.html
@@stevedavenport1202 I'm sure that's true. I think what I'm talking about in the U.S. is something else. For example, today I read a comment elsewhere on youtube regarding U.S. social attitudes: "The real mindf*ck is how the rich get you to blame yourself for being poor." I don't think that's much of a factor in Mexico; the people there understand that they're poor because they were born into it.
Interesting topic guys. If you want to understand clasism in Mexico all you have to do is watch Telenovelas and you will see what clasism is. The rich people want to hangout with the rich.
@@imhoned4532 very true for the most times but like you said the clasism is well integrated into the Mexican society that we don't flight over it but it still exist but it's less and less. In other words, it's not as obvious as discrimination is more common in the US.
I have seen first hand how terms like "guerito" or "prieto" are used when babies are born to determine certain "quality", and that tells me that there is some type of camouflaged racism in the mexican society.
@THEREXREPORT WHICH COUNTRY DO YOU LIVE???? BECAUSE SEEMS YOU ARE FROM USA,AND IF YOU ARE/OR FROM ANY COUNTRY FIRST LOOK AT THE PROBLEMS YOUR COUNTRY HAS AND THEN COME AND GIVE US ADVICE,WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR! WE SEE COUNTRIES TOO FROM OUTSDE AND THE LAST TO KNOW THEY ARE VERY WRONG ARE THE CITZENS OF THAT COUNTRY,LOOK IN THE MIRROR MR.PERFECT! AND DO BETTER YOU AND YOUR COUNTRY!
I was attracted to your vídeos initially because since I lived in Monterrey when I attended University there in the 90's and got married to someone from there after I graduated, it is interesting to see how American visitors interpret that part of Mexico, which is very different from the rest of Mexico. I must commend you on how well you have captured the different aspects of Monterrey and its culture in the couple of videos I have seen from you. Remember that you can divide Mexico in 3 large zones: the north, the center and the south. The northern states tend to have a lot in common with Texas (similar weather, cowboy hats, eat more beef, flour tortillas, taller whiter proportion of people compared to the rest of the country, just to name a few). The center states are more of a mixture of colonial Spanish and indigenous cultures and the southern states are predominantly indigenous. My wife's Grandfather, who shared the pride that most people from Monterrey have about being industrious people, used to say: " In the north we work. In the center they think and in the south they relax and enjoy life" That was the way they used to view themselves in relation to the rest of the country. The hardest working ones because the conditions were harsher. With regards to your theme: Classicism vs. Racism, I must say that racism exists in Mexico and the rest of Latin America in different magnitudes but more at an unconcious level. The media has for years bombarded Latin American people with ads and TV programs (Telenovelas) in which only white and blond European looking people exist. Causing the culture to consider such models as the desired image and to consider mixed or indigenous looking people less desirable or undesirable. It is ingrained in the psyche of Latin American people and you can catch it when you hear comments about a how beautiful a baby is because he's "blue eyed" or of "very white skin". Or when refering to someone as ugly because he is dark skinned or looks indigenous. This is the more subtle racism that Mexicans don't seem to recognize they have in them. As a Mexican-Bahamian (White Mexican father/Black Bahamian mother), I grew up in Mexico and experienced both racism and classism. Racism is not as strong as it is in the United States but it exists, probably as it does worldwide. It is a part of human nature to be less receptive to those who are different from you. Classism is built into the structure of Mexican Society. From the lower level of education provided by public schools compared to private schools and the consequences of those differences in terms of inequality of opportunities in the future. To the acceptance that indigenous people are only meant to work in the farm fields, or as domestic workers, factory workers or artisans. A black person is a rarity in Mexico as you may have already found out. So most Mexicans may have never seen one in person and only have been exposed to them via American television and/or movies. The image of black people in the eyes of Mexicans has improved thanks to Sports superstars and Movie stars who have placed them in a high class. The majority of Mexicans are a mixture of Spaniard and indigenous people. So the differences are more evident with those of more "pure race" backgrounds: European (rich) vs. Indigenous (poor). Everyone else is in between and some overlap with one of the extremes. I believe you defined classism very well with the "you stay in your lane" example. Which defines how classes deal with each other in Mexico. Something I don't think will change in my lifetime but having these conversations may help bring more awareness about how bad it is for our progress as a society. Thank you.
From what I’ve heard and seen travelling and staying in Mexico, casta issues are very real and part of everyday life. A sweet, local teen posted in an expat group that he was available to help people with tours, chores and whatnot in Progreso, adding an apologetic “I’m just a poor brown boy but at least I speak English!” As if his definitely gorgeous Mayan features were anything to apologize about. Another friend of mine, a singer/actress/tv hostess in DF posted a photo of herself after a sun holiday on FB: she’s usually quite pale (with brown eyes, black hair) but she was sporting a great tan in the pictures. Her mother commented publicly “where was your sunscreen?? Look at you now, looking like some morena” as if it was an embarrassment... I see such examples daily. In discussions about origins when people ask me where I’m from, when I explain that I’m French Canadian with French, Irish and First Nation ancestry, therefore a typical North-American mestiza... if I say “like you, we’re all mestizos in the modern day Americas, aren’t we?” they often protest saying “No! I’m from Spain, I’m Castilian, not an Indio” despite having clearly beautiful local native features and dark hair/eyes. Another thing I’ve experienced is Mexicans inviting me to family events and gatherings, showing me off in a sense and being clearly proud to have a “European friend” (uh?). Seems to me like the “foreigner” is seen as being at the top of the casta system, at least in my limited experience. 😟 it’s a sad thing to witness, often 😔
I do agree with your opinion it may have a little to do with malinchismo where Mexicans prefer outsiders or foreigners and they treat them better than natives.
Well, I have to stay, your statement does hold some truth. However, I disagree with some things. First, telling other people "we're all mestizos in the modern day Americas, aren't we?" is not always appropriate, not because it is necessarily inaccurate but because some people might not necessarily feel comfortable having their ethnicity pointed out by someone else. A more appropriate answer would be, in my opinion, "I'm French Canadian with French, Irish and First Nation ancestry, a typical North-American mestiza, and you?". In that way, you don't impose a label to another but you let the person identify him/herself with the label he/she prefers. Also, because we Mexicans often don't think or know a lot about our origins and we rarely have conversations about that, to a Mexican, it might come across as weird to have that remark made. And finally, if you went through that situation with a person, it doesn't mean that all mexicans will react like that. Also, the fact that someone has dark hair and eyes does not necessarily mean that they are not European descent as many southern Europeans have dark hair and eyes. Not saying that these people do not have native ancestry as millions of Mexicans do but linking dark eyes and dark hair with non-Europeaness is inaccurate. Not only blond, blue-eyed people are European or European descent. Millions of Europeans have dark hair and eyes. Yes, the features are different, natives looking more "asian" but dark hair and eyes can definitely be European features, specially in countries like Italy, Spain and Greece, which are definitely European. Also, you cannot assume that they invite you because they want to show off their "European friend", most Mexicans are very friendly and they would also invite you if you had other origins. This is an aspect of the Mexican culture that you might have difficulties to understand, specially if you have been in Mexico for a shorter time, but many Mexicans invite people to family gatherings and events quite often. This is different to Canada, where people are more reserved, from what I understand. And there might be an element of curiosity, specially in cases of Mexicans who have not had a lot of exposure to people of other cultures, but that doesn't mean that they see you as more relevant, interesting and cool than people from other places or than their Mexican friends. Anyway, bienvenue au Mexique! :)
This is true.. Classism exist in Mexico.. Why i know this.. My husband parents gated community in Mexico.. Imagine being the only minority that is american. That is brown skin that is none Mexican inside the gates lol. Ignorance, curiosity etc.. I remember once we was walking at night this security guard car was driving in the back just probably watching us walk.. My husband like.. i live here like defensive but in my mind I’m like it probably me lol 😂They arent use to seeing other skin colors besides light skin, especially someone thats is none-Mexican so it’s “How did this happen ?” “Do she belong here?” Yeah someone going to sneak in and get through a guarded private community with high walls that is brown lol ignorance i tell u. Oh yes the guards change every so often so it new ignorance’s and shockness. The only brown skin people inside during the day is the workers that leave at a certain time a day.. I’m use to it lol.. People stare out if curiosity, hate, intimidation etc. You have to get use to it and have a thic skin because people are cruel and hate anyone different..
Great episode!! :) I must say that up here in Canada there is also classism. Often times more subtle than some places. Yet in other ways it is almost worse when it is that subtle. For example many people will ask each other here if they work and what line of work they do. Many times they will even ask about job finances. Another common question is how much ones rent costs per month. And as if that were not enough they will also ask you what kind of a neighbourhood one grew up in or are currently living in. And those are just the tip of that iceburgh. At any rate, well done episode! :)
The Iberians made a LOT about people's class and that carried over into the areas of the new world they colonized. Racism and classism are easily intertwined and confused - it can make this harder to understand or decipher. One example of this kind of thinking can be found in my father - he believed whole heartedly that he was superior to anyone born in the new world - and you see this in a lot of the historic documents where only people who were born and educated in Spain were allowed to hold certain important positions in government and society.
@@danielleeverhart9423 and against is indigenous. But, it manifest in a different way to USA or South África, because here wasn't apartheid, but a cast system, simililar to India.
First at all, I'm glad you here in my town, Monterrey. We never finish to understand this issues racism/clasism First, clasism we felt it in how CDMX see other cities...if you are not in cdmx, then no body cares, and that mindset is from 19 century and still happens. Monterrey has changed a lot from the last century where people were focus to create, invest, work hard, etc to have a "better life/school/car/house" Now people are just focus in look rich and dont care about how to get rich. So, people now see where do you live, where did you studied, etc. and try to fit the closest to the "higest standards"
Oh my, I was born to answer this question.The short answer is that in Mexico is both racist and classist but it is experienced very differently than in a place like America. Therefore it is hard for Mexicans (middle class like myself) to relate the definition of racism with our experience as we relate it more with black people and america. In Mexico, classism and racism intermix, but a person can experience both separately or together depending on many factors, not only skin color. What I mean is that a poor white will experience classism, indigenous people will experience racism, and everyone else somewhere in between. I've lived my entire life in Monterrey but travel quite often to Texas (as certain sector of the population do). This is an issue I have asked and discussed with my family, half of it being lower class Spanish "castizo" descendants and the other half Amerindian half Spanish castizo (mestizo). As you can imagine, the Mexican middle class family looks very mixed, and because most people have absolutely no idea of their roots, overt discrimination about people skin color is not something that happens in middle and lower classes in my understanding (aside the casual joke among friends and family, like calling a white person black as a nickname or a fat person fatty. Make of it what you wish). The most obvious kind of racism you can find in Mexico and that mostly "everyone" is guilty of, regardless of class", is against indigenous people, or whoever has indigenous like features (big noses, low stature, and dark skin), mostly because they are associated with low education and low socioeconomic status. The more of those features you share the lower your position in a company, the lower your pay, and education achievements, in general. Inside Tec de Monterrey, the "good college", it is not common to find dark skinned mexicans at all (I might be the darkest of my entire generation haha). Similarly, watching the media you only see white Spanish looking people. Inside really posh areas of San Pedro, poor indigenous looking people can even be taken out by police. But because also Mexico prides itself in it's indigenous customs as the cultural identity for everyone, discrimination against natives is also a heavily frowned upon and condemned behavior. That is why it is ok to accept yourself and your culture of being classist but not of being racist. As for classism, as a middle class lady I only experience it in San Pedro, where people look at you as if wondering if you will have enough to generously pay, or in the worst case scenario, look at you like you don't belong there. It is almost never super overt, and as long as you prove that you have the money you will be mostly fine. You can say the darkest and smallest you are, the more you have to prove of being educated, well traveled, and economically prosperous, while facing the most barriers as well. All this happens among Mexicans, and that any foreigner, regardless of skin color, will be accepted as they are considered exotic. Pd. This is based on my experience and comparing it to the instances of discrimination I have faced in America by being a dark skinned Mexican. The way you experience discrimination in the states is very "on your face" compared to Mexicans (in the general sense). Mexicans seem more color blind because we care way less about race. For many, because or family past are not clear, regardless of how you look you share the same background. Therefore how Mexicans distinguish themselves is by socioeconomic class and the costumes associated with each class.
This is so true! Sadly I was silent when I witnessed my White Mexican that actually is from Mexico as he consider himself high class due to attending a lot of private school since a young age and living in a gated community and this wasn’t always his life his mom was poor and his dad he don’t talk or seen them because they was rich and looked down on his mom for being poor not because of how she looked. She is white Mexican and come from Spanish and French ancestors and base on her skin tone. Anyways one day he was saying most original Mexicans or short, ugly and they are the original Mexicans not mixed and at first I didn’t know he was talking to the entire group until I look at comments like yours and others people how people talk about indigo people. I then realized he was technically racist and I don’t know if he meant just the height and wanna asked why he think they are ugly? Is it there skin tone or how they look short because apparently he light skin and look like a mixed Mexican. Btw he did comment how I had a soft voice and didn’t sound like most blacks or I look lighter then most blacks even though I see myself brown. I really don’t understand, but at this point I know he don’t think he racist and it not his fault he really good with all cultures but because he just use to see different features or people that around him and when u see someone different and the media don’t do a good job don’t represent you it affects how people grow up to think that. I’m surprised he open to date other cultures because he tried to date Indians, Nigerian, Dubai, American etc so he not racist at least not to me.
As a blonde blue eyed Tapatía that has traveled in Mexico but lives in a very Mexican community in So Cal I think many Mexicans are not only classist but colorists those 2 things usually go hand in hand. Much like presenting as white in the states, you get treated better if you are lighter. I have experienced that on both sides of the border by people of many different cultures. Those are just surface reactions in passing everyday activities.Once people get to know you in more social or work setting is where your economic ,education , and family pedigree come into play. It’s out there and it’s very real.
I love, love, love you two xx You guys are my favorite Mexico vloggers! Having grown up in south Texas in a Latina neighborhood as a working class "Anglo" (!!) and having lived in many states plus England, and having a master's degree in Multiculturalism/Teaching English as a Second Language, I feel I have a perspective on classism vs racism. They are definitely intertwined... If there is not a melanin difference, many wealthier, educated people will look down on the uneducated. If there is a melanin difference, the "lighter skinned" dominant culture will look down on the more melinated people. The subtle difference is that racism trumps classism. Racists will put you down not matter your background, it will be based (stupidly) on the amount of melanin in your skin. Classists will begin dividing you (stupidly) between your melanin and your racial-socio-economic standing. The amount of melanin in your skin AND your racial-soci0-economic standing will sort your place in (their) society. I have seen many Latina Texans and northern Mexicans behave horribly to dark-skinned indigenous Mexicans (or Hondurans, Guatemalense, Haitians, Costa Ricans, etc. ) However, they will react favorably to light-skinned, educated Mexicans, Venezuelans, Argentinians, Chileans, Brazilians, etc. I am having difficulty blocking out classism at the moment, myself. I want to understand the right-wing conservatives of the USA (many which are family), but find myself dividing them between the high-school diploma only and the wealthy conservatives and who can be persuaded on different viewpoints and who cannot. I seem to find the racists more difficult to persuade than the classist no matter their education level. Sadly, racism has infected the globe, which doesn't allow social movement. Classism does allow social movement (as you guys stated so eloquently) if you have the "money" (capitalism 101). Mexico has been contaminated by racism (from the USA) as have many countries have throughout the world. Remember, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was not the beginning of the end of American racism. It was the beginning of our poisonous belief that America was ending racism.
Sorry but México was contaminated with Racism amoung other things,by Spain not from USA for that matter. They began with that horrible way of treating natives as if they were animals.
Have you noticed the predominant skin tone of Mexican celebrities? It's pretty obvious. I'm half Mexican 1st generation in the US, my mother was born in Mexico. I remember when I was a little girl she used to go to TJ ,she'd cross the border just to buy special cosmetics products. One in particular was a cream with a little white shell on the label, it was a skin bleaching cream. My mom would slather that on before she brushed her bleached blonde hair. Ironically about a decade later she got super into tanning, tanning salons were all the rage all the sudden..... My Abuela's side of the family was of mostly Spanish decent, fair, blue eyes and such but my Abuelo's all looked indigenous. My mother would often tell me I was lucky I looked like my father and her mother's side of the family.... I grew up with a a sense that I had a privilege because I could "pass" as white. I'd see how my mother felt about her complexion and saw how mean/racist people could be towards her....I learned that people treated me differently. I've had people (seriously, it's usually wealthy white women) say something racist around me and become completely flummoxed after I to reveal my background...the way people will try to backpedal is kinda hilarious.
This is a very interesting topic. It seems that every country has some type of one up one down between different groups of people. Like you, I'm all about learning and understanding different cultures. I'm American but have been living in another country for over a decade. Where I live, if you weren't born here, you'll never be accepted here. Some won't hesitate to tell you to your face how much they hate Americans. Companies get away with discrimination by requiring local experience. I'll be happy when I'm back in the US.
Yes, a very interesting topic. And, it's very helpful to folks who are contemplating a move to Mexico. Nice to see all the shopping and restaurants. But, visiting and living very different experiences. Tourists will rarely experience the inner workings of a country. It's party time for the week! But, when you are living in a place, that's when the real deal becomes important and you wish someone had at least broached the subject. Thank you for at least opening this up for investingation and discusstion.
@@trace3254 IS EXACTLY THE SAME WITH USA,I HAD TO LIVE THERE BECAUSE OF MY EX HUSBAND JOB,AND I HAD TO BE THERE 9 YEARS,I COULDN'T WAIT TO GET BACK TO MY COUNTRY AND BE WITH MY PEOPLE,SO MUCH RACISM,AND THINKING THAT USA IS THE BIGGEST D*CK IN THE WORLD IS LAME,AND I HATED LIVING THERE!! I WOULD SAY THE SAME TO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO LIVE IN USA,THINK TWICE,ALL THAT SHINES IS NOT GOLD.
Unlike America, where the to be Middle Class is to be ordinary, a middle class Mexican is like a rich person to a regular Mexican. The middle class being so small, you rarely meet them, and they are proud to be middle class. Middle Class Mexicans will say with delight that they are de 'la clase media' and in Mexico that carries weight.
3:03 right on the money! I am a Mexican that is an obvious Mestiza and I am a physician. I am from Guadalajara. I receive classism, racism (colorism). I am invisible unless I am somewhere I “don’t belong”. I walk into my condo building and immediately placed in the working class. There’s no way someone that looks like me lives here, I must be the maid, the nanny, a worker. It doesn’t matter how I speak. I have to be completely dressed up to the nines to appear as if I belong and receive proper service wherever I go. If I go to a humble establishment I will also receive it from people that are of lower socioeconomic backgrounds, it’s funny. It comes from everyone and anyone. 12:45 True! They are proud of that background link that’s usually from ages ago. 😂 whitexicans have privilege even if they are a lower class. Also in the US. All Mexicans judge appearance. Appearance is key. 13:56 No.
This is true.. Why i know this.. My husband parents gated community in Mexico.. Imagine being the only minority that is an American. That also have brown skin that is none Mexican inside the gates lol. Ignorance, curiosity etc.. I remember once we was walking at night this security guard car was driving in the back 100 feet just probably watching us walk.. My husband like.. i live here like all defensive and clueless, but in my mind I’m like it probably me lol 😂They arent use to seeing other skin colors besides light skin, especially someone thats is none-Mexican so it’s “How did this happen ?” “Do she belong here?” Yeah someone going to sneak in and get through a guarded private community with high walls that is brown skin lol. Ignorance i tell u. Oh yes the guards change every so often so it new ignorance’s and shockness. The only brown skin people inside during the day is the workers that leave at a certain time a day.. I’m use to it lol.. People stare out of curiosity, hate, intimidation etc. You have to get use to it and have a thick skin because people are cruel and hate anyone different.. It sucks because people say Mexico love tourist. Of course they do, but like u say if u stay in an area u don’t belong u become the “What the hell this brown girl is doing in this area?” Regardless if u are an American lol 😂 I think tourist don’t see it, especially black because everyone knows ok they are tourist, but u start noticing when u with someone that is Mexican and u no longer a tourist in their eyes. It more of “a wtf is this type of thing?” Or how did this happen?” 😂😂😂 You get use to it.. I like being the change in something better. Also we are the 1 in a million couple. My husband also is getting use to it because he seem clueless of racism/classism because he never had to experience it until he with me and now he doing what i do.. pretend u don’t care or notice and keep having your conversation.
My personal opinion about clasism in monterrey: From living in monterrey my whole life, i would say im closer to the lower class but i work at a place where our clients are like TOP upper class, and from what i can see, the upper class is like a closed group that shapes itself by the places they go, the clubs, the restaurants, the malls, everything, if you go to certain restaurant, there will only be people who know eachother, because they belong to the few richest families here, if i were to go to one of those places, they would scan me to see what family i belong to, what im wearing, if im white or not. And out course you will NOT catch me at those places cause the prices are ridiculously high, so i guess, by showing how much you can spend is a way to ‘prove’ you belong with the upper class, but also the way you dress, the car you have, the PLACE YOU LIVE, also VERY important, if you don’t luve in san pedro you will get stink looks from rich people here. Another interesting thing i see is some of my coworkers trying to fit or blend in the upper class group, spending more money than they have, just so they could have a shot to included in the club, maybe befriending the right person, or even better, marrying rich, which is highly unlikey cause the rich families here only marry eachother
@@imhoned4532 That also happens in the US if you’re really rich you live in gated communities, go to private schools, and get high- paying jobs and drive expensive foreign cars, etc. 🤷🏻♂️
@@fergomez3817 You don’t have to be super rich to have those things in the U.S. I’m middle class in America. I live in a gated community and drive an expensive foreign car. I also attended a private university and recently (semi) retired from a high-paying career. I guess I would be considered rich in Mexico.
I was Lucky to find a well off Mexican who is white Mexican that live in gated community and got into the top medical school and I’m not even Mexican and brown skin, but this is true because my soon to be fiancé his brother have all low income friend probably mostly women because he invited some to his parents house and they was upset because he use the excuse my fiancé brought me in the house when I’m part family lol while my fiancé friends are from his private university or Starbucks. They don’t realize that they are getting the worst kid in the family while I was lucky to get the best even his father remind me his son is very smart and successful because he already own his own house and car so his life is set now his second to older brother is lazy, have no car, or house he just stupid basically he said and his friends are only with him because he got money but really don’t it just family money now once his family is gone my fiancé said he will have no one and he not helping him at all because that’s on him. I hope you too get lucky
The racist in Mexico is not bad like many years in the past. I’m whitemexican green eyes ,white skin and black hair. And my friends that are whites (gueros) and browns (morenos) we are good friends, no matter eye colour, hair colour , beard colour etc. Just make jokes about our physical appearance for fun. It’s really funny. But I think that’s in the big mexican cities with more races and people who came from different countries and different Mexican states. People from towns or gated communities where predominate native Mexicans , are really closed mind, actually hate white people and you can feel you are not welcome, no matter if you’re foreigner or white Mexican. Really interesting video guys, cheers!!!! ✌🏻
Thanks for watching and commenting. You find that in the states as well ppl who are in the rural areas are most cut off from diversity....interesting take. Thanks again!
I am a white Mexican female, from a socially prominent family who just by the way I look would get privileges and an easier way BUT then I would get hit with the machismo and condescending attitudes that "be pretty but not too smart". Naturally I rebelled. Hahahaha I am from an enlightened family, very democratic BUT... you better not cross the lines and stay where you belong. I grew up with a Nanny that followed me around with an umbrella so I wouldn't get any sun (ordered by my grandmother who was very Victorian), I was sent to Finishing School, etc. yet I paid my own way through 3 master's (very much against my family because who wants a smart female) worked in the US and around the world and ended up being a Chef with 7 restaurants yet I was looked down on for providing a "service" (like the help),,, Of course I married "beneath me", I knew all the wealthy jerks and no way! But I can tell you that we are not Mexican enough for Mexico and not Gringo enough for the US and yes, I've been discriminated IN THE US! Followed out of the market for speaking Spanish (we are all 100% fluent in various languages and have double citizenship, and yes my family is Spanish from way back) and I was the first to win a employment discrimination lawsuit against a former employer with the EEOC! Now we do not feel nor act "entitled" but many of our neighbors do, they don't even talk to the cleaning people, security people, etc. and they don't get as much attention and regard as we do just being nice to people. We've always lived well (fortunately) in every country we've ever been to, we travel a lot. I am now retired and a widow, my youngest son came to live with me and we are now travel companions and have a great time and I always taught my children to be educated, well mannered, kind and considerate to ALL (and they are, really great people I am proud to say). Be well, enjoy your travels in our enchanting country!
Sounds like your family was very close minded and very insecure. Talk about self loathing. I hope your family has changed their way of thinking. The color of your skin does not reflect your worth. Education starts at home.
If y’all ever go back to Monterrey y’all NEED to visit Parque La Estanzuela! It’s soooo beautiful with gorgeous ponds of water. Very intense hike to the top being fully immersed in trees and nature!
This is a difficult subject but all in all I think Mexico has some of all that was discussed- a little racism, a lot of classism, a lot of colorism, a lot of nationalism but all the pails in comparison to the centuries old, deep- seeded systemic racism of countries like the US 🤷🏻♂️✌️👍
Thanks for commenting! It is difficult. Each colony had its own evils to deal with that evolved into the problems each nation faces today. Thanks again for expressing yourself out here. That was courageous and we appreciate it.
The first black president in America happened to be black and a patriotic Mexican (not Obama). He tried to get rid of the caste system based on race and class structure. You can check out what happened to him, and Mexico still has class structure.
I have this same argument with alot of other Mexicans who refuse to acknowledge that there is racism in Mexico. Their idea of racism is what they see in America but they don't realize there's different looks to racism. If you're discriminating against someone solely based on the color of their skin then that's racism. I've experienced racism and microaggressions in Mexico as an educated indigenous looking woman.
lately there are a lot of black south american refugees and immigrants here in monterrey, i see a lot of them in my neighborhood and i think it’s super nice that the new government is willing to help them and include them in society, also i see locals being very interested and curious about them because they stand out, because of our physical differences
Refugees than they are poor. Where are they living? How are they eating? What job's are they going to have? Do they have children with them? How did they arrived at Monterrey? Of course people would be curious with brown skin.
@@holdupnow2326 i would love to know the answer to those questions, all i know is there’s a place called DIF and others like churches where immigrants can stay and live for free, they also get physiological help, and i’ve seen personally a couple of them who have had children with locals a few neighborhoods away. And just to clarify, there’s a lot of brown people here too, just not with the same characteristics of black people like the hair. And most of them arrive here by train, most of them have the goal of actually getting to the US, monterrey is just a few hours away from there
I’m an American of Mexican descent, my family settled in what is now Northern New Mexico/Southern Colorado in the early 1600s during the Spanish Conquest of what is now the southwestern USA. My family is mixed Spanish and Native American blood, since the expeditions to that region where so far away few Spanish women made the trek; however, there were lots of Native American women who were available for marriage that could supply a Spanish settler with both expertise on land usage and an extended family to fall back on in hard times. A Native American family could benefit from having a Spanish son in law in regards to protection from other Spaniards claim to Christian property. My family was and still considered a rich (now upper middle class)family with ranches, property and education. Now that I live in Mexico, I see the classism played out in much the same way that racism is played out in the USA, except not as blatantly. Classism is much more like unearned privilege. The Mexicans I encounter are very nice people, but they are always curious about my heritage and education (I’m a retired Federal Agent/US Diplomat with a college degree) I do speak Spanish with a 16th century accent). They are especially confounded when I’m around other Americans and speak and “act” just like a Gringo, and yes, I am a light skinned Mexican American (Chicano).
The discrimination in the US and México is different. In the USA it's more rooted in race....and in México it's more rooted in how much money you have. In the United States even a rich person can still be hated/discriminated because of skin color.....in México once you jump the economic scale discrimination ends for you. Another thing....in the United States people have killed for hating a certain skin color.....in México you don't become a victim of a hate crime just for just being poor....you only get discriminated, ignored, etc, so it's more of a "stuck up" discrimination.....not a racial type of of discrimination that can be violent like in the United States. (Remember Dylan Roof) I would say the United States's style of discrimination is worse because it can be deadly.
I think you guys got it spot on, I’ve seen very little racism in my 20 something years in Mexico however poor people are seen as criminals and treated poorly regardless of their skin color. In the US I have been there very little and I do have some memories of racism from the time I went to donate plasma and while waiting I saw 3 cops arresting a black man with a bike, they threw him to the ground like he was armed or Something.
I lived in Mexico for a while and I noticed the white collar workers, seem more respected for some reason... The guys that really work physically hard are a class below regardless of the shade of skin. However that being said within a large family group I saw the division of classes even within the family... Some working harder to wear fancy clothes to gatherings.... Some that don't care... I think this is for sure a curiosity... Love you both! Thank you for seeking feedback on this topic!
When you have diversity in any culture in the world you're going to have a certain amount of us and them mentality, whether we label this as racism or classism, this is a fact of life pretty much everywhere. Generalization will be the downfall of man, when we start looking at people as individuals, not as a race, Creed, color or religion then maybe our society will take a step forward in the right direction.
No matter where we are, there are racism and classism. We live in such an imperfect world. Go to Asia if you know what I'm talking about. Greetings from the Twin Cities!
@@gregorgman It's much worst in Asia. I had to live through the genocide from the communist Pol Pol from 1975 to 1979. Most of my family members were wiped out!
As a future traveler, I think this is a topic that I will steer clear of. I’m glad you guys have addressed it so people like me can get an idea of how topics like this are received by the locals. I’ve learned that it’s fine to address specific issues that we may face as Americans (tourist scams, etc.), but I think this particular topic can bring you “unwanted attention” from the people who benefit from the privileged class there. I think it’s a topic that should be addressed by Mexicans. As Americans, we tend to have a savior complex when we’re abroad. We see inequality and we want to make it right. It’s in our nature, but (as harsh as it may sound) it’s not our cross to bear. In other words, we need to remember that Mexico is not the U.S. As a black American, I would not expect Mexican expats or tourists to come here and march for us or use their platforms to address systemic racism in America. I’d expect them to come here and continue to benefit from our resources and not rock the boat. Enjoy life. Love you guys. ❤️
Good observation! I’ve been an expat 3 times: Egypt, Kuwait and Qatar and I’ve traveled extensively. Yes, never bring up “deep” topics like this with locals. We? Americans and westerners (some) are comfortable with having deep talk. Most other cultures are not….and especially not with a foreigner. I spent time in Brazil and they have the same classism, colorism and racism like Mexico.. but probably worse. Most Brazilian won’t admit that they have black dna! They are so brainwashed!
The class system varies from city to city in mexico in some is just about money. But in San Pedro its about money but most importantly, family lineage, what kind of education you have and what do you do for living or what kind of business do you own. I lot of new money or new rich people wont be accepted in the real San Pedro high social circles. Doesnt matter how much money you have. A clear example of this is El Campestre de Monterrey the membership is 3 million USD, but you still have to be accepted. Many people try to get in offering even more than the 3 million dollars and they still get rejected cause they are not from a known San Pedro Family. Family lineage its really important in San Pedro.
For me classism had an impact , Mexican society likes to pretend to have more money than they really do . Putting themselves on high class in the social life when they aren’t really wealthy but pretend to be . I am Mexican living in USA , my husband is American and we have 2 kids (white kids) and i remark “white” because Mexican culture like “gringos” because coming from USA means dollars and in their minds they thing all people from USA , specially “gringos” are rich 🤑 When we go visit mom and dad to México , people treat my husband and my kids better that they treat me 😢 I love México and my people , but they are classist 😞
@@mariaangelicaasche2435 No you Dont lol. It means back in history where white folks stold land and they was on the green land and they wanted them to go and get off there land. Gring= green go- get the hell out of country
Racism in USA: You can marry that black guy (in any class, unless my greed is willing to over look that) Classism: you can’t marry that Poor guy. But if you’re dating in the desired class higher preference for the more European decent. And the browner you are it’s harder to get a white collar job because those jobs are offered by networking with upper class who have connections or have prestigious degrees from private or foreign universities. In general it’s just hard to go up a class because you are limited by your education, network, and skin color by assumed origin if you came from a agricultural/indigenous village versus growing up in a major city and going to the best schools Basically there is no KKK/nazi equivalent to classism in Mexico. It is more about what resources can that person bring, such as sales or technical expertise for jobs. And money, financial security and connections and status for marriage/dating
Sounds like it's more about leverage than equality. Ppl want to know what are you bringing to the table...but generally lighter skinned ppl have more to bring to the table due to the privileges that have been granted.?.
The difference between Mexican society and American society dates back to the colonial era. There's relatively less racism in Mexico because since the colonial period started, the Spanish had no problem marrying local women and mixing with the local population. This also applied to mixing with imported African slaves too. That is why most Mexicans are mixed. Yes there was a caste system that documented and even limited your possibilities in life based on what your racial combination was, but it was possible to rise in life or to have children who were higher up the ladder than you were based on who you married. It wasn't like in the USA where if you were dark skinned you were stuck even if you married a white person. New Spain was setup to be a part of Spain with its own viceroy acting in the name of the King, and Mexico in effect functioned as if it were part of Spain with citizens for the most part being full subjects of the Spanish crown with all of the same rights and obligation but functioned as its own self contained society. The British on the other hand had the exact opposite mentality. They're goal was not to mix with the population but to exterminate them and exploit the resources. Only the white British born people were considered citizens were considered full subjects of the British crown. Also rather than function as part of Britain, the New England colonies were only there to export resources back to Britain. That's why they only sent people they didn't want starting trouble in England like the puritans and quakers. For Britain it was a win win, they got rid of troublemakers (who in turn got more freedom to do as they pleased, whether socially or religiously), and got resources sent back to Britain by these same people. So when Mexico became independent it inherited that culture from the Spanish, but also expanded upon that. For example slaves were already Spanish subjects and had certain rights. So independent Mexico took it a step further and just freed them all and gave them full rights. Whereas in the USA they weren't citizens at all even after independence. There was no 3/5ths clause in Mexico.
Interesting...take. I agree w/ a lot of it but definitely believe the colonizers all had their brand of evil that they planted. Thanks for contributing to the conversation. We appreciate it!
@@TheYarbros oh I completely agree, a colonizer is a colonizer and inherently acts in its own selfish interests. Thats why both societies still have their own problems inherited from those times.
I work in HR, and an example of very marked classism in Mexico is that in renowned private companies where you studied is very important. Many companies only hire people from universities such as ITESM known as TEC, ITAM, IBERO, LAS AMERICAS (from Puebla) UP, ANAHUAC, which are supposedly the TOP !. Discarding candidates from not so well known universities, even if they are private or from UNAM and the Polytechnic (IPN). And obviously there is also discrimination based on appearance, and maybe even zip code. In a positive way, it is like you are used to people behaving in a similar way or with similar values to the ones you have and having respect and talking points that you have. For example, in a meeting, they will talk about the same things, travel stores, experience, traffic in their areas, and they will complain about the same things, if someone does not fit in, they will feel inappropriate. You have heard the term NACO and FRESA, ask on your channel, defining these terms in detail will be very rich and would be a good topic for a second part of this video.
I’m an Armenian woman who was born and raised in the USA and I am currently living in Mexico. I don’t think I face racism or classism (at least I haven’t that I know of yet in the month and a half I’ve been living here). I get people looking at me a lot but I’m not sure exactly what the looks they’re giving me are. Perhaps they look at me because they’ve never seen an Armenian woman in person before and/or because I’m new to Mexico and as a result, still dress like an American. Not sure. But I don’t think I face racism or classism. However, I do face misogyny/sexism/patriarchy here. There is a lack of respect for women. But patriarchy also exists in every country, and it is not unique to Mexico. Mexico has been incredible, warm, welcoming, and kind to me and I feel very happy living here compared to the United States. I do want to note that I do believe I have privilege as an Armenian-American woman. I don’t think I face classism or racism in Mexico because Armenians tend look somewhat Mediterranean/Middle Eastern (similar to Spanish people), so I might “pass” for Spanish + I also have an income of an American, which also puts me at a financial advantage (and I guess protects me from classism in a way).
Your light skin. They might be looking at you because your different and beautiful. Remember light skin is considered better in Mexico while dark skin is not. Sad but it true. Lucky my husband is White Mexican and in his eyes I’m beautiful. We are one in a million because it extremely rare to find a high class Mexican to date a foreigner that is none European..So yeah.. Also the sexism i can see that a bit to because i remember we took uber back to his parents gated community and the driver didn’t even really care for me he simply gave a business card to my husband, etc it was more of him thinking because my husband had the money and i was nothing i guess. In reality. He didn’t realize i was the tourist and more friendly than my husband who is close off and cold and i had the tip money.. he didnt get a tip from neither of us..The first uber driver was nice he was a gentleman and he open the door and everything.
It is complicated even for us (mexicans) to understand this topic. In my opinion there are racism and clasism here in MX but it works different than in the US (which is deeper, focalized and more public). Here the racism means that people think the native americans, their laws, traditions and style of life contributes to keep the country in the third world (fortunately that is fastly changing this days). Racism is very very very condemned in MX that's why most of racists keep in the shadows. Clasism comes from the days we were Spain. It means that if I have money or I come from a "old or famous family" (even if now that family is broke) I am "better" that others because of that. 200 years after Spain that crap stills working for some mexicans. Maybe I am wrong because I don't care about that stupid way of thinking and I am just talking about what I have seen and heard. For me each and every person are the same and have the same potential if they have the balls. Saludos from Yucatán.
Great video, very thoughtful discussion. I’ve read a few books on Latin American history. One really interesting book “Life and Death in the Andes” shed some light on wealth and how the top 1% richest ppl in the former Spanish colonies are still descendants of the Conquistadors. Preservation of family wealth is the basis for classism - and by default - racism. It’s not a popular thing to point out that Pablo Escobar was so well-loved by the working class because he was doing things like funding soccer fields and community centers for the forgotten classes, the descendants of the Ancient peoples. It became really easy for the police (often from working class families) to look the other way when it came time to pursue Escobar and his cartel.
I agree with you guys, that classism and racism are parallel evils. However, USA racism is based largely on hatred, fear, and envy while Latin classism leans more on arrogance and "natural" privilege. Classism in Mexico and Latin America in general pivots a lot on "educacion y cultura," the way you speak and carry yourself in society. That's part of why you have honorifics and open respect for doctors, lawyers, engineers, professors, etc. that are not so apparent or prevalent in the USA, where money trumps everything. That's part of why teachers are so much more respected in Latin America than in the USA. But of course, people who have better education and "higher" culture generally attained that in large part because of their national and ethnic origins. So Indigenous are generally at the bottom and people of more obvious European origins are at the top, historically and generally. Still, Mexico elected an Indigenous man, Benito Juarez to the presidency in 1858, overlooking his "Indian-ness" in favor of his education, intelligence, and force of character. That didn't happen in the USA until 2008. To paraphrase President Obama (who borrowed from Theodore Parker), I'd also like to believe that the arc of history bends toward justice and, like in the USA, things in Latin America have improved in the last decades. But true justice is still a hell of a way off all over the damn place. Viva Zapata!
The truth here is that, basically, if you have money, for example, in an restaurant, they going to give you preference to you in everything, better attention from the waitress, just maybe due the car that you drive or even the clothes you're dressing, or even your hair style, Believe it or not that's truth, and by the other hand if arrive to the same restaurant driving an old car and may be you're not wearing good clothes, may be you won't get the same service compared with the first ones that I mentioned, and that's true, then is when we call it that you're suffering classism in Mexico, just due the way you dress or simple things, like the car brand that you're driving. This kind of situation could happen in the Andares area here in Guadalajara.
Great video, and this is a valid conversation. I'll just leave yall with a quote "We understand that racism is an excuse used for capitalism, and we know that racism is just a byproduct of capitalism." ~ Chairman Fred Hampton I would say that we also know that classism is a byproduct of Capitalism. Therefore, we know that there is common adversary. We just cant talk about the 'Big C'.
Interesting you brought this up.. me being a Asian American living in Mexico, while in the US, everything is defined by the color of your skin. I do notice there is really no such thing as "race" here, you can be Brown, White, light-skinned Brown or Black in Mexico (Asian otherwise), at the end of the day, you are still defined as Mexican if you are born and raised there. The society is categorized by class status, and most will look down on you if you have no education with labor jobs
Look... In Mexico you will not find the hate between groups, that you can find in the U.S all across the U.S you see people screaming at each other just because they're different, you will not see this very common in Mexico at all.
Mexico's infamous corruption is one of the main underlying reason why most people in power financially or politically are and have been in those positions for generations. Example: the new governor (who stole the election) of nuevo leon, has colored eyes, light skin and is the millennial son of a former governor of the same state. His dad is widely known to have close ties to cartels. Call it racism or classism they're both forms of discrimination perpetuated by those of predominantly European descent. Its been this way since the Spanish came to Mexico.
My wife and I were discussing this topic. I believe that greed is the nucleus of both instances. If people want more bad enough, they will put others down, weather it be their skin color or social status, clothes they wear etc… to get more.
There is another issue to consider. Makes has a steep power distance gradient between those who are in charge and those who follow. This lends itself to imperious/classist interactions amongst different social groups.
They are tourist… Why i know this.. My husband parents gated community in Mexico.. Imagine being the only minority that is an American. That also have brown skin that is none Mexican inside the gates lol. Ignorance, curiosity etc.. I remember once we was walking at night this security guard car was driving in the back 100 feet just probably watching us walk.. My husband like.. i live here like all defensive and clueless, but in my mind I’m like it probably me lol 😂They arent use to seeing other skin colors besides light skin, especially someone thats is none-Mexican so it’s “How did this happen ?” “Do she belong here?” Yeah someone going to sneak in and get through a guarded private community with high walls that is brown skin lol. Ignorance i tell u. Oh yes the guards change every so often so it new ignorance’s and shockness. The only brown skin people inside during the day is the workers that leave at a certain time a day.. I’m use to it lol.. People stare out of curiosity, hate, intimidation etc. You have to get use to it and have a thick skin because people are cruel and hate anyone different.. It sucks because people say Mexico love tourist. Of course they do, but like u say if u stay in an area u don’t belong u become the “What the hell this brown girl is doing in this area?” Regardless if u are an American lol 😂 I think tourist don’t see it, especially black because everyone knows ok they are tourist, but u start noticing when u with someone that is Mexican and u no longer a tourist in their eyes. It more of “a wtf is this type of thing?” Or how did this happen?” 😂😂😂 You get use to it.. I like being the change in something better. Also we are the 1 in a million couple. My husband also is getting use to it because he seem clueless of racism/classism because he never had to experience it until he with me and now he doing what i do.. pretend u don’t care or notice and keep having your conversation.
I’ve seen classism in Mexico, however not directed at us…mostly towards indigenous or people who look indigenous. Especially if you appear dressed in traditional clothing… Great discussion ya’ll. I’m binging on your recent video while waiting for my son’s class to end.
you guys are right, i think that in Mexico exist more classism, im Mexican and i can confirm that, i hope that more mexicans can make more awararness about this problem and fix it, excellent job.
This is a very interesting topic. Both of my great grandfathers had tons of land in central Mexico but after the communist leadership took place also known as the porfiriato in the late 1800’s, they lost almost everything. The reason was, this dictator didn’t believe mestizos and indigenous Mexicans were capable of administrating their own land, therefore he brought many Europeans from different countries mainly Italians, giving them millions of acres all across the country, providing them with free farming equipment and cheap indigenous labor..
Truth? We live in Juriquilla, an affluent suburb of Querétaro. The maids, gardeners, guards and workers here, largely, arrive in the morning and leave at night. I notice, as a Canadian, that people in my neighbourhood all greet each other, but never the workers. It is absolute. We were thinking about this today. To do differently would be strange. México, more than any place I have been is firmly and deeply classist. Oddly, being privelaged, at least by Mexican standards, we find ourselves observing the "rules".
I was born in 78 but let me tell you guys it has gotten better , back then most of the people tend to pretend they have money by the cloths they were wearing or the way they speak but like a said it has got way better we’re back to embracing our roots again
Classism and racism end up being the same, that is, the need to feel superior over someone else. It’s part of human nature I think because you see it everywhere, even among the people who are being discriminated. I’ve seen poor people and ppl of color discriminate against their own peole.
I'm no expert on this either but from my perspective, (and it probably existed before then) but you mentioning the caste system makes most sense to me. Classism is generally similar to racism minus the qualifier of race. If someone seems well off, educated, etc., they get a pass. But first impression is the general stereotype people have for the "class" or group they could be lumped into. It exists in the states also... i usually get a response from people based on my non-white (mexican-American) look, but as soon as I mention I'm a veteran, their tone changes, once they get a feel for how much house I have ($$$), they adjust again, they see i have a white wife, again, and so on. People create a level of respect for you based on what they know or see, but it also says alot about them when you see it happening in real time
Caste system was a racist system because they put you in the level according to you race , top levels were for Spanish born in Spain and Spanish born in Mexico in that order, the last levels where Indigenous and black people in that order, black people where slaves.
Classist, not racist you say. OK, but it’s interesting how the higher classes tend to have lighter colored skin, and the lowest classes tend to be comprised of the indigenous peoples of the south of the country. I first came to México in 1978 and have lived in many regions of the country. I believe that classism and racism do intersect here in México. Alejandro Lipschutz of Chile was the first to speak of “Pigmentocracia” in Latin America, or the way your pigment does definitely affect your access to opportunities to acquire education, professional status and wealth. And let us not forget that the entire stratification of society began with the caste system the Spanish established during colonization.
You tell no lies and I don't disagree. We asked Mexico and that was their answer. We'll be talking with some indigenous ppl and ppl of darker skin soon to hear what they have to say soon....
I would say in general that Classicism is the norm throughout Latin America. Some countries it is more subtle than in others. When I went to college in the early 1980's, I had several friends from affluent families from Mexico attend my school. Most decided to stay in the US or relocate to Europe due to sexism and family pressure to conform to societal expectations. I'm a real estate agent in California and I have many clients who are dual citizens who are Mexican/American. They found it much easier to succeed in the US than in Mexico. In my experience in the US, if an immigrant owns their own business they will do better in the US whether it be in the trades ( construction related), restaurant, or any service sector. While in Mexico, social mobility is seen through education exclusively. As far as the US goes, the second generation generally has very limited discrimination. Some of the other countries in the Americas that have colorism is Argentina which still sees themselves as Europeans, Chile. Brasil. I would think that Bolivia would have the lowest level of classicism.
Absolutely universal but each region, has its own tint and ways of acknowledging and eventually overcoming these seeds of division. It's interesting to see the remnants if a failed cast system. Where do we fit in...how do we ensure that we aren't part of any lingering issues.
I am writing from state of Veracruz. My wife is from here and we have been visiting old friends and relatives.People are a little darker down in southern Mexixo, but some of the relatives have lighter skin or colored eyes.This said we all socialize and seem to appriciate everybody.If a young person from Cuba or the Dominican with obvious business talent came here I am sure they would fit right in if they were respectable with good manners.
This is a great conversation. I'm not going to voice my thoughts in the comments because it's such a loaded topic, but as an observer of Mexican culture, I think I share the same views and thoughts that you all shared. Also, that was a great question that was asked at the end; are their laws in Mexico that protect people who may be discriminated against? Now I'll have to put my Inspector Gadget hat on do some research. haha
Classism comes from the system, neoliberal corruption indoctrination. People learned that they would have to be criminals to be someone, that if you wanted to be rich you only had two options, becoming a corrupt politician or a drug lord. Therefore classism was born, by the taught that good people can’t be rich, only the humble is considered good. It’s like fanatic religion, a belief that guides their life.
Thank you for this discussion. I found it very interesting and here’s my two cents. I’ve always thought the people in power went to US to be more like Mexico. They want a huge income discrepancy. Then the presidency can be more like a kinship or dictatorship. The consequences crime becomes more frequent and cost of living goes up. The poor are truly envious and hate the rich, and the poor are Invisible and the rich could care less about their concerns. The power imbalance becomes greater. The poor are just trying To stay alive avoid a virus, the middle class shrinks and the rich do whatever they please. Add to this mix drugs Drugs which deadened the pain of the poor and and indulge the hedonism of the rich and you can have a nightmare story. The hope is that people wake up, gross consumerism becomes a fad and peoples inherent goodness prevails. The warmth of the Mexicans is what I see in a lot of peoples videos. Here in the US aside from all the problems, I still see that too Keep these thought provoking videos coming
In a nutshell, cinderella story as seen in many telenovelas. Usually the new rich are the ones that treat others unfairly, as they want to draw the line as to they no longer belong to the hood, as old money are educated to treat others with respect (cant generalize thou). Hopes this helps.
They are both the same thing in my opinion because both involve one person feeling superior to the other person. If you look at Mexican telenovelas all the protagonists are fair skinned and the maids, butlers, and everyday people are dark.
You're definitely right about the classism here in Monterrey. I'm British and people here expect that I must live in the San Pedro or San Geronimo areas. When I tell them I live in Guadalupe, they raise an eyebrow. The type of music you listen to gets considered. Listen to Cumbia like the kind by Celso Piña and you kind of get frowned on.
😁😁😁 I love that term you use ( whitesicans ) my wife and are both born in Chicago, me also raised. We spent most of the year here since 2005 and have a home in Playa del Carmen, her family from Monterrey Mexico, my heritage from chihuahua Mexico. She actually passed away here in playa in 2018 from an asthma attack…. What we always noticed here in Mexico 🇲🇽 the majority of the time it’s all about money 💰 and who you know period. Here you truly see the term , money 💰 talks and 🐂💩walks come to life 😂😂😂 I love y’all’s energy have a blessed day and much success 🙏🙏🙏👊🏼
Awesome topic and love the shirt Rondell, solidarity always to you both. I'm pretty damn political and was wondering alot about just this topic as it pertains to down there in Mexico. I did alot of reading about buying land and found the reasons foreigners can't purchase within 100 miles of a beach or border is primarily because of what the Spanish did. I read about the revolution and Emiliano Zapata in particular. I think just a short video on youtube about his life will perfectly tie all the things you see with what went down.
i think classism exist but in a lower level than in the 80's or 90's where indigenous ppl were discriminated, but it has gotten better in a lot of areas, now mexican ppl are more proud of their indigenous roots and has a lot of respect for them. more and more ppl are learning the native languages.
Truly Love to hear that #truelove
Nope
@@TheYarbros but now there is a trend that Mexicans with darker skin think they are better than white Mexicans and really hate "whitexicans" and that is racism.
@@cms3000 😅🤣😂
@@cms3000 🤣🤣🤣🤣😅🤔🤣🤣
I’m also an outsider here, I’ve lived in Mexico for 4 years. I do agree, from what I’ve observed and from speaking to my Mexican friends, that their is a clear division of classes. But I don’t think that is is a matter of “ I’m better than you, I’m up here and you’re down there” but from what I’ve seen…..it’s an acceptance of one’s station in life. Another aspect that I’ve observed is that regardless of “class” Family is number ONE for all and the grind to reach the top of the mountain is not as it is in the States. For better or worse, people seem to, and I’m generalizing obviously, be okay with their…ummm…status in the economic machine. If you are from a family of leather workers, you might more likely become a leather worker…and so on.
Wow, how very interesting 🤔 Yhanks for contributing!
I understand you may not be able to answer this, but do individuals try to change their station in life? Is that a thing there? Is is encouraged and/or accepted? Say a street sweeper suddenly comes into a lot of money, is he and his family no longer seen as the status of street sweepers? Or is his station in life always the same regardless of access to things that used to be inaccessible? (disclaimer due to previous experience with derailed conversations because someone took offense to an example: I do not think street sweepers are lower class people or anything like that. I was just using an example)
@@misstrcarter …When I say that people seem to accept their station in life, I don’t mean how society views them but how they view and accept themselves. While I do see young people wanting to educate themselves and improve their situation, those are, from my limited experience, young people from the middle class. I’m more talking about the acceptance of the working class being just fine with selling street tacos, cleaning houses, being a landscaper…whatever and still being happy, content and family oriented. The number one dream does not seem to be to become rich, it’s to have a family life and enjoy time together. Also, I don’t see wealthier people talking down to others, I more often see people treat each other with respect and refer to them as friend or brother. It’s just not the same programming as in the States.
@@WiseOwl-1 Interesting. Complete opposite from here in the states where it is the cultural norm to aways try to get to that next level. Whether that be a promotion at work, expanding your business, bigger house, newer car or whatever. I'm actually trying to imagine that concept of being just fine with where I was 20 years ago. And while I can't imagine it, I do realize my life would be so less stressful if I could.
@@misstrcarter … IMO, many people in the States are always looking for better and more and when they get the next “thing” that they think will make them finally feel complete…..they realize that the still feel the need for better and more. It’s interesting to look and compare major cities in each country. In Guadalajara, it’s very rare to see people that are obviously homeless, even though there is no social safety net here. The sidewalks and parks are not filled with homeless encampments. I think that it’s because of the family unit here is much stronger. I also don’t see the ravages of illegal drugs in the streets. Yet this is a poor country compared to the USA. Just do a YT search for “Streets of Philadelphia” ….I’ve never seen anything remotely similar in Mexico. Don’t know why, maybe the unattainable American dream is an illusion for some and they just give up.
Yes some Mexicans discriminate against other Mexicans based on their income level .Some Mexicans also discriminate against the indigenous people of Mexico who do not speak Spanish .Also being 40 years old or older in Mexico many Employers will discriminate against you and not hire you,They want younger employees .Yes there is some racism in Mexico but I would say more less Discrimination .
The whole work thing is because they aren’t that many jobs in the first place . 2 degrees play a huge role in Mexico unlike the USA were u don’t need college . Having a degree is part of classism but also with economical status because if u got a degree but still at 500 usd a month u still Poot so who cars .
This is a very interesting conversation. Thanks for contributing to it. These are complex topics but in my opinion, racism and classism in Mexico are dynamic and changing... 20 years ago people would for the most part accept the status quo... but people are now becoming more aware of how different forms of oppression work and they are more willing to question them...
I, as a Mexican and an outsider to the US, observe differences between the US in Mexico. I am no expert on the US, but what I see is that the US is a society very much based on segregation. People are still classified based on their ethnic background. As a Mexican, it is shocking for me, for instance, that you have forms where you have to declare what your ethnic background is when you apply for a job. People in the US claim that it's for statistical purposes but in my opinion, this perpetuates the labels, the categories, and ultimately, the segregation of different groups... So it is really shocking for me to see that. Also, to hear people say things like "I am a white guy"... of course we see the color of the skin but for a person to make that claim that, as if it was a social identity, it is kind of weird for me.
What I think is that the differences between Mexico and the US were shaped in colonial times. Both countries were colonies of European powers, the US being a colony of Britain and Mexico being a colony of Spain. However, the forms of colonization were completely different. The British for the most part wiped out the natives or confined them to reserves. The black people that were brought to the US were enslaved. It was illegal for Europeans to inter-mix with other groups. Some people did mix I guess, but it was a small minority as it was a taboo or illegal. In contrast, a lot of Spaniards who arrived to Mexico intermixed with the natives. Some full-Spanish families, known in Mexico in colonial times as "criollos", also settled in the country and held a lot power and this created a "racial" hierarchy but not as rigid as the one in the US. But there were a lot of differences between the rich and the poor in Mexico and these differences have a legacy in today's society. There was also slavery in the Spanish colonies, not so much in Mexico, but in the Caribbean mostly, but Slavery ended earlier in Spanish colonies.
In today's Mexico indigenous peoples suffer from discrimination and poverty and many Mexicans more than openly racist are apathetic towards that reality... A lot of Mexicans don't want to think about that, they are "lazy", but for the most part, they are not openly racist nor hateful. Some more privileged Mexicans are uptight or condescending... but some of them, a minority, are aware of their privileges and they want to see social changes too. And finally, there are Mexicans who are all about power and domination, and like in other societies, they have to be held in check.
Anyway, these conversations are very interesting and relevant. I believe that open conversation helps us to get to know each other, and you said, bring understanding. I really like your T-shirt Rondell, because I believe in solidarity too!!. I really like your channel and I am happy to learn that you enjoy life in Mexico. Love from a mexicana :)
First, thanks for communicating. There is a lot of propaganda between our 2 countries. People in both sides misshapen information for different reasons...i.e. it is illegal to ask anyone's ethnicity or race on a job, home, bank...pretty much any application in the US. It is illegal to discriminate based on race, class, gender, religion... Don't get me wrong it is still a racially divided country but not nearly as stark as alot of ppl in MX believe it to be. Also generally other ppl call white folks white and most of the time it is a derogatory statement about "white privilege" which is a whole different conversation. It is not a social identity. Those are just some small examples. Dialog like this is how we achieve understanding and I appreciatethem. Which is why I am replying to this post. I appreciate you seeking understanding just as I am...
While the colonizers were different. I maintain that their lasting affects are still similar. Societies torn apart from within...institutions and systems that are inherently biased and simply don't work for #thepeople because they were never meant to take care of ..."The Peoole". The common ppl of MX have much in common with the common ppl of the US in my eyes.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thanks for your reply! You're right, there are a lot of mutual misunderstandings and stereotypes. Good that we're breaking them ;)
I have a question, in what situations do Americans have to fill out these forms where they have to declare their ethnicity? I I am asking because I applied for a couple of jobs in the US and in all of these applications I had to declare my ethnicity. These were jobs at universities. I don't know if it is always the case but it was when I made these applications. This was a recent thing. I have also heard or read comments about these forms and sometimes situations like mixed people not knowing what to write in them, but I don't know in what contexts these forms are used. But anyway, I am aware that the US is also a very diverse country and that many people are also very inclusive. And I also know that a lot of people of different origins have prominent roles in the US.
Also, about the colonizers. I agree with you... I was not trying to say that some colonizers were "better" than the others. Colonization inflicted a lot of pain and suffering in both societies and around the world. But I was pointing out the differences because I think that they're important so that we can understand both societies and their different mindsets. I believe that Mexico is a very misunderstood country and I often find myself having to explain how it is and why it is like that. I believe that al lot of misunderstandings come from the fact that people want to understand it with the concepts they use in their own countries, but each country's history has its particularities.
I also believe that reality is very complex, much more complex than what a concept such as colonialism can convey. For instance, I can tell you that as a Mexican in Mexico, sometimes I was discriminated but not because of my skin or my class, but because I was "the nerd". But I learned to embrace it and even love it :D
I also agree with you, we have much more in common to share and celebrate !! Keep up the good work!
I don't know what to tell you about the job situation asking your ethnicity..unless it was for a visa clearance Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers from asking any questions about race or ethnicity w/o exceptions. I was an employer in the states for many years and this rule is always followed. On census forms you may be asked but it is optional everywhere. Civil Right are serious business in the states...
Agreed, complex histories and I am hoping for brighter futures!
Thanks for the convo!
@@TheYarbros I don't know if my comment was deleted or if I didn't post it, but I thought I had replied to this. Anyway, as I said, as the following link shows, these forms do exist for applications for jobs at universities. As I said in the original comment, universities state that this information is used for statistical purposes. I am not saying that it is not the case, but for me it was still somehow shocking to see that they ask for this information because they only ask for this information in the US. I made applications in other countries too and only US universities asked for this information. In the following link you can see one example of these forms:
hr.gwu.edu/bio-demographic-form
As I said before, I don’t know a lot about the US but this was just an example of some of the things I find to be different… Don’t want to generalize and of course, now I’m aware that these issue of the forms is not generalized. Thank you for teaching me about that. I hope for a better future for all too, specially for the people who have never seen justice.
@@mariar8256 spot on
You guys are awesome, and your videos are getting better every episode. I live here in Mexico and what you have observed and explained is "real Talk". Thank you. I'm a musician and I live on a predominately working class Mexican street. My music can be heard outside my window, and one day my neighbor invited me to play at a family gathering. I rocked the party, and now we've become great friends. To your point their class seemed to be more open to relate to black people. But you can clearly see that the lighter skinned Mexican have that uppity attitude. Peace!
One of the things I love about Mexico....70% is working class folk and they are so approachable down to earth happy people. ¡Viva México! Thanks for jumping out here to represent!
. I couldn’t agree more. My experience from three years living in Mexico was that the affluent upper class were generally insufferable.
That has been my experience for the most part as well where I have travelled and where I live.
Back in the 60s my parents came to Monterrey from the central state of Guanajuato, they were farmers, they came looking for a better life, my mother became a nurse after working as a housekeeping in the same hospital she later worked as a nurse! My uncles became electrician techs, they gave birth later to engineers, my aunts give birth to teachers, and lawyers!!! And all of my family step up from a low class farm workers to a middle class within 1 generation!!! I do believe that everyone in Mexico gets a chance to live better!!! But you gotta work for it!!! Nothing is free in Mexico!!! But you’ll need to get your self to work!! There’s opportunities if you want one!!!👍
Hay un problema aún más grande que es la soberbia y egoísmo en nosotros los Mexicanos . Gracias a todas las bendiciones, riqueza cultural , clima etc. algunos mexicanos ya perdieron el piso y sienten que somos mejores que los demás en ves de ser humildes, agradecer y sabernos afortunados ,no mejores. Saludos amigos los queremos gracias por estar aquí en México
That is very interesting because 99.9 percent of all of the people that I have ever met from Mexico have been super nice and friendly/ very welcoming to me and my family. However, I have only been to the country twice in my whole life so I may not have spent nearly enough time there to get a good feel on the current situation. Thank you for your honest opinion though. Cheers and stay blessed my friend. :)
@@aaronhow1932 Obviously, the Mexican is a hypocrite and will never show his true face to a foreigner, because most Mexicans benefit from tourism, that is the reason for his excessive kindness
@Kai Ikaika What the hell is wrong with you?
@@ANAcondaGarcia And what exactly is your problem?
@@aaronhow1932 it's a sensitive issue they're just sharing their own experience. I have my own experiences with racism/colorism as the granddaughter of a white Mexican man. The white grandchildren were considered the "beautiful" ones and the darker ones like me were considered "ugly". I was rejected by my own blood and grew up feeling less than. Even today as adult I have experienced discrimination outside of my immediate family. It's a social issue that needs to be talked more about in Mexico.
I like that you are not afraid to tackle the big topics. Its always good when you try to understand the people around you.
Awesome subject. Thanks for posting this. I am a Native Hawaiian born and raised on the Island of Oahu. I am specifying which Island I am from (there are 8 Hawaiian Islands that make up the “50th State of Hawaii) because I am from the Island where the City of Honolulu is (and the only metropolis of the 8 Islands) I grew up living day to day with MANY races (Asians, Polynesians, Portuguese, Filipinos and Puerto Rican’s) so I never experienced racism. I didn’t know what racism was until I was an adult. I did, however, experience some classism. There is a difference between classism and racism but I can see that the two could possibly overlap. Your point is well taken.
Thanks for watching!
The "Class" would be based on a number of things: Having money and the colour of the skin are probably the obvious ones, but not the main ones. I'd say that the way you dress, the way you talk, how smart you seem to be or the education you have, are more important in "fitting you into a class". (I didn't say that it doesn't matter, off course it does, it's just that it's not the only or the main ones).
You belong to the high class when the people that belongs in the high class considers that you belong to their circle. Even if they still make fun of you for whatever thing you have that doesn't fit the bill.
You can totally have dark skin and still look like high class and get whatever perks you get for being in that club.
If you have dark skin and are poor as well... that's harder to pull it off, but one of those perks is that you can be friends with high class people, and surely they can help you to find a better job.
Another way to look at it, is that we mexicans the darker the skin we have, it means that we come from more generations with low self-esteem, and that means that anybody assertive enough looks superior in our eyes. It's really hard to break that mold, but if you manage to break it (low self-esteem) and look assertive enough, you can fool people into believing you're higher class and get the perks...
Can't thank you enough for your contribution. Thank you!
@JAGWOLF I AGREE WITH YOU,IS NOT THE SKIN COLOR IS THE MANNERS,THE EDUCATION YOUR PARENTS GAVE YOU,WHERE YOUR FATHER WORKS/ED,AND ALSO WHICH SCHOOL DID YOU GO TO,ALSO COLLEGE,PERSONALLY I AM NOT RACIST,BUT FOR EXAMPLE.A MAN WHO HAD ALL WHAT I SAID ABOVE,AND ALSO HAS A GOOD JOB,DRESSES WELL,NOT NECESARILY WITH SUPER EXPENSIVE CLOTHES,BUT KNOWS HOW TO WEAR THEM,FOR A WOMAN IS IMPORTANT TO BE TREATED VERY WELL,WITH RESPECT,AND DOESN'T HAS TO BE "MEGA RICH",JUST TO HAVE A COMFORTABLE WAY OF LIVING IS VERY IMPORTANT,(THERE ARE SOME RICH ONES THAT ALSO BEAT THEIR WIVES AND ARE ASS*OLES),BUT NOT AS THE ONES WHO SINCE THEY WERE BORN HAVE SEEN HIS FATHER GET HOME DRUNK AND BEAT THEIR MOM,IS THE EXAMPLE THE PARENTS GIVE YOU,GOOD ONES OBVIOUS,WHAT A WOMAN LOOKS FOR,IF YOU HAD THE LUCK OF BEING BORN IN A FAMILY WELL KNOWN,AND THE FRIENDS YOU ALWAYS RELATE TO,AND GOING TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS,UNIVERSITIES,IS A PLUS TOO....CLASSISM EXIST FOR A REASON AND THIS REASON IS THAT IF YOU HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH A MAN THAT HIS FAMILY AND HIMSELF NEVER HAD THE SAME THINGS YOU HAD,AND WAS EDUCATED DIFFERENTLY,HE CAN'T TREAT YOU AND OFFER YOU THE SAME YOU ALWAYS HAVE HAD,AND THAT MAKES THE MARRIAGE VERY DIFFICULT,AND THOSE "LITTLE"THINGS BECOME HUGE AFTER THE HONEYMOON STAGE ENDS,IN BOTH WAYS MAN WITH A LESS EDUCATED WOMAN,OR WOMAN LESS EDUCATED THAN MAN,MEANING MANNERS AND VALUES,RESPECT ETC...AND MOST END DIVORCING,I AM SAYING THIS BECAUSE IT HAPPENED TO ME,SO I AM NOT INVENTING ANYTHING...IS NOT EASY TO ADAPT,BECAUSE EVERYONE AIMS TO BE BETTER AND NOT GO LOWER,AND THAT IS WHAT ONE OF THE TWO HAS TO DO,SO IS NOT BECAUSE PEOPLE DOESN'T EVEN TALK WITH PEOPLE WITH LOWER INCOME,OF COURSE EVERYONE DOES,BUT MARRY ONE IS A DIFFERENT THING.
When I moved to Mexico from the US, I lived in an upperclass neighborhood with live-in nannies and housekeepers. I would invite my nanny to dinner or to go out, and everyone told me I couldn’t do that. I ask why? Because “she is not in your class”. Huh 🤔 I didn’t get it until someone explained it in this way. She(the nanny) won’t feel comfortable going to the places you go. She won’t have the wardrobe, the money to pay or even feel like she fits in, and this will make her feel bad about herself. She won’t know the food or drinks on many menus or how to talk to the other patrons. I didn’t like it and thought it was stupid but in the end my nanny and maid both said “we don’t feel comfortable in those places unless we are there in a work capacity” so why would I want to make someone feel bad or uncomfortable!
That’s the best way I can describe it, and they know where they belong(their words, not mine) and they’re fine with it. They aren’t ashamed to have a lesser or different life, that seems to be an “American” thing. They don’t pretend or try to be something they’re not, they’re happy.
I’ve never heard of anyone suing or anything for “discrimination” in this way.
I think this is only difficult to understand if you've never been on the lower end of this type of relationship? As someone who has only become middle class in adulthood, it would never occur to me to invite a domestic employee to some of the places I go unless they showed extreme curiosity about it. (In which case, they probably desire to social climb which I'd more than happy to assist. lol) Otherwise, it's a burden to be in a space for which you are not prepared. It would be better to bring experiences TO them, like certain foods or gifts. They can decide on their own if they want to experience more of it or not.
¡Bravo! First time I hear someone hit the nail, CLASSISM actually does intersects with RACISM in México and comes all the way from the conquest.
Rich people were the Spaniards and Indigenous were the poor, all of this also intersects with MALINCHISMO which is repudiation by own, which kind of sounds similar to what you were saying some people experience in the US too.
Through generations races mixed making race not easy to detect but classes are, if people have money most likely they will be treated better.
Best way for you to see an obvious example of this would be in hotels, pay attention on how foreigners are treated better than Mexicans, or in touristic places people who look wealthy will be treated better, or fancy night clubs, rich looking people will be allowed in faster.
I’m glad you had the courage to talk about this important issue and understanding it really good.
Sending good vibes🎉👏
You guys are really helping move our understanding along. Thank you!
@@TheYarbros well that's all over you think you be treated the same any where as jef besons or
Yes! I agreed with you. One more thing, rich Mexicans can travel abroad. And they marry with Europeans. As a result they look white or lighter.
@@TheYarbros You should read articles over an incident between Mexico and USA that happend not that long ago. It had to do with a misunderstanding of a mailing stamp. Mexico was celebrating 50 yrs (I think) of "MEMIN PENGUIN" a beloved cartoon character that (I think) was created in the 1950's. This cartoon character was a black Cuban boy and his family that came to Mexico for a better life. The U.S. government found out about this mailing stamp and the African American community went crazy😵 and demanded that the U.S. government due something about it. The Mexican government explained to the American government but without success. Eventually the Mexican government had to remove the stamp from circulation. Sometimes when you have been conditioned for many years to think one way it's hard to break that mentality to the point that it becomes paranoiac
@@checolate9680Well not my Mexican lol 😂 He White-Mexican and he met me in America and we got married and he loved me every sense. It nice because we are that 1 in a million and i can always tell my kids mommy is 1 in a million in daddy eyes lol like the lottery. Thats how i know I’m special and lucky 😂 Why he a rich Mexican. Well at least his parents is. Now his gated community
My husband parents gated community in Mexico.. Imagine being the only minority that is an American. That also have brown skin that is none Mexican inside the gates lol. Ignorance, curiosity etc.. I remember once we was walking at night this security guard car was driving in the back 100 feet just probably watching us walk.. My husband like.. i live here like all defensive and clueless, but in my mind I’m like it probably me lol 😂They arent use to seeing other skin colors besides light skin, especially someone thats is none-Mexican so it’s “How did this happen ?” “Do she belong here?” Yeah someone going to sneak in and get through a guarded private community with high walls that is brown skin lol. Ignorance i tell u. Oh yes the guards change every so often so it new ignorance’s and shockness. The only brown skin people inside during the day is the workers that leave at a certain time a day.. I’m use to it lol.. People stare out of curiosity, hate, intimidation etc. You have to get use to it and have a thick skin because people are cruel and hate anyone different.. It sucks because people say Mexico love tourist. Of course they do, but like u say if u stay in an area u don’t belong u become the “What the hell this brown girl is doing in this area?” Regardless if u are an American lol 😂 I think tourist don’t see it, especially black because everyone knows ok they are tourist, but u start noticing when u with someone that is Mexican and u no longer a tourist in their eyes. It more of “a wtf is this type of thing?” Or how did this happen?” 😂😂😂 You get use to it.. I like being the change in something better. Also we are the 1 in a million couple. My husband also is getting use to it because he seem clueless of racism/classism because he never had to experience it until he with me and now he doing what i do.. pretend u don’t care or notice and keep having your conversation.
I love the shirt you decided to wear for this conversation! It's a big world full of different people that usually want the same basic things in life. The more I learn the more tolerant I become. Keep up the good work. 👍
😉 thanks for getting it!
As Chicanos living in Mexico, we tend to agree with your analysis and comparison of racism and classism. There’s no denying that those two things were conjoined when Europeans came over and enslaved indigenous and black people, forbade them from owning land, or having any political or economic power. Those circumstances created long lasting legacies that are still evident today. And classism is institutionalized - it’s hard to escape this ideology when it is perpetuated in popular culture. Here in Mexico City, a mock-up of Templo Mayor was recently set up in the Zócalo as a commemoration of 500 years of indigenous resistance, a resistance that is ongoing and necessary because these communities are still facing economic and political disenfranchisement and racial discrimination. Thank you for taking the time to investigate these issues on your channel, we really appreciate your respectful tone and your willingness to promote constructive discussion of important topics.
From my limited experience with Mexico, I think one big difference with the U.S. is that the poor classes are not presumed to be lazy or not working hard. This presumption seems to drive a big part of the racist/classist problems in the U.S., the (mistaken) belief that, "If you work hard you'll succeed" leads people to think people who aren't succeeding are lazy and that they don't deserve help. I think it's different in Mexico (and many other places) where it's understood that poor people are in the position they're in largely because they were born into it. So it's not assumed that they're lazy good-for-nothings. There's a philosopher, Michael Sandel, who has written an interesting book relevant to this ("The Tyranny of Merit") and he has lots of youtube lectures on it, e.g.: ua-cam.com/video/Qewckuxa9hw/v-deo.html
But the working classes in Mexico get zero respect.
@@stevedavenport1202 I'm sure that's true. I think what I'm talking about in the U.S. is something else. For example, today I read a comment elsewhere on youtube regarding U.S. social attitudes: "The real mindf*ck is how the rich get you to blame yourself for being poor." I don't think that's much of a factor in Mexico; the people there understand that they're poor because they were born into it.
Very heavy discussion. Will have to come back and listen again. Discovered your channel this morning - subscribed to be sure to see more.
Thanks for the sub!
Interesting topic guys. If you want to understand clasism in Mexico all you have to do is watch Telenovelas and you will see what clasism is. The rich people want to hangout with the rich.
@@imhoned4532 very true for the most times but like you said the clasism is well integrated into the Mexican society that we don't flight over it but it still exist but it's less and less. In other words, it's not as obvious as discrimination is more common in the US.
I'm glad you chose such a safe topic 😆
Seriously, that was presented well
😆 Thanks!
I'm enjoying your videos. You have a unique perspective that I appreciate. Thank you.
I have seen first hand how terms like "guerito" or "prieto" are used when babies are born to determine certain "quality", and that tells me that there is some type of camouflaged racism in the mexican society.
Good video. You two are very down to earth, fun, and relatable.
Thanks so much!
I will agree with the Yarbros. Mexico 🇲🇽 needs to do better. The inequality in Mexico is very clear and right in your face. Do better Mexico! ❤️
@THEREXREPORT WHICH COUNTRY DO YOU LIVE???? BECAUSE SEEMS YOU ARE FROM USA,AND IF YOU ARE/OR FROM ANY COUNTRY FIRST LOOK AT THE PROBLEMS YOUR COUNTRY HAS AND THEN COME AND GIVE US ADVICE,WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR! WE SEE COUNTRIES TOO FROM OUTSDE AND THE LAST TO KNOW THEY ARE VERY WRONG ARE THE CITZENS OF THAT COUNTRY,LOOK IN THE MIRROR MR.PERFECT! AND DO BETTER YOU AND YOUR COUNTRY!
Thank you, Rondell & Apryl. Great discussion... thought provoking topic. 👍
you guys are great. interested to read the convo that follows. monterray hike looked stunning from those pics.
It was marvelous. Thanks for cruising our content.
Great video, thanks for sharing your perspective. I'm from Mexico and I love your videos, keep up the good work!
I cant wait to travel to Mexico !!!!!
I was attracted to your vídeos initially because since I lived in Monterrey when I attended University there in the 90's and got married to someone from there after I graduated, it is interesting to see how American visitors interpret that part of Mexico, which is very different from the rest of Mexico.
I must commend you on how well you have captured the different aspects of Monterrey and its culture in the couple of videos I have seen from you. Remember that you can divide Mexico in 3 large zones: the north, the center and the south. The northern states tend to have a lot in common with Texas (similar weather, cowboy hats, eat more beef, flour tortillas, taller whiter proportion of people compared to the rest of the country, just to name a few). The center states are more of a mixture of colonial Spanish and indigenous cultures and the southern states are predominantly indigenous.
My wife's Grandfather, who shared the pride that most people from Monterrey have about being industrious people, used to say: " In the north we work. In the center they think and in the south they relax and enjoy life" That was the way they used to view themselves in relation to the rest of the country. The hardest working ones because the conditions were harsher.
With regards to your theme: Classicism vs. Racism, I must say that racism exists in Mexico and the rest of Latin America in different magnitudes but more at an unconcious level. The media has for years bombarded Latin American people with ads and TV programs (Telenovelas) in which only white and blond European looking people exist. Causing the culture to consider such models as the desired image and to consider mixed or indigenous looking people less desirable or undesirable. It is ingrained in the psyche of Latin American people and you can catch it when you hear comments about a how beautiful a baby is because he's "blue eyed" or of "very white skin". Or when refering to someone as ugly because he is dark skinned or looks indigenous. This is the more subtle racism that Mexicans don't seem to recognize they have in them.
As a Mexican-Bahamian (White Mexican father/Black Bahamian mother), I grew up in Mexico and experienced both racism and classism. Racism is not as strong as it is in the United States but it exists, probably as it does worldwide. It is a part of human nature to be less receptive to those who are different from you.
Classism is built into the structure of Mexican Society. From the lower level of education provided by public schools compared to private schools and the consequences of those differences in terms of inequality of opportunities in the future. To the acceptance that indigenous people are only meant to work in the farm fields, or as domestic workers, factory workers or artisans.
A black person is a rarity in Mexico as you may have already found out. So most Mexicans may have never seen one in person and only have been exposed to them via American television and/or movies. The image of black people in the eyes of Mexicans has improved thanks to Sports superstars and Movie stars who have placed them in a high class. The majority of Mexicans are a mixture of Spaniard and indigenous people. So the differences are more evident with those of more "pure race" backgrounds: European (rich) vs. Indigenous (poor). Everyone else is in between and some overlap with one of the extremes.
I believe you defined classism very well with the "you stay in your lane" example. Which defines how classes deal with each other in Mexico. Something I don't think will change in my lifetime but having these conversations may help bring more awareness about how bad it is for our progress as a society.
Thank you.
From what I’ve heard and seen travelling and staying in Mexico, casta issues are very real and part of everyday life. A sweet, local teen posted in an expat group that he was available to help people with tours, chores and whatnot in Progreso, adding an apologetic “I’m just a poor brown boy but at least I speak English!” As if his definitely gorgeous Mayan features were anything to apologize about. Another friend of mine, a singer/actress/tv hostess in DF posted a photo of herself after a sun holiday on FB: she’s usually quite pale (with brown eyes, black hair) but she was sporting a great tan in the pictures. Her mother commented publicly “where was your sunscreen?? Look at you now, looking like some morena” as if it was an embarrassment... I see such examples daily.
In discussions about origins when people ask me where I’m from, when I explain that I’m French Canadian with French, Irish and First Nation ancestry, therefore a typical North-American mestiza... if I say “like you, we’re all mestizos in the modern day Americas, aren’t we?” they often protest saying “No! I’m from Spain, I’m Castilian, not an Indio” despite having clearly beautiful local native features and dark hair/eyes.
Another thing I’ve experienced is Mexicans inviting me to family events and gatherings, showing me off in a sense and being clearly proud to have a “European friend” (uh?). Seems to me like the “foreigner” is seen as being at the top of the casta system, at least in my limited experience. 😟 it’s a sad thing to witness, often 😔
I do agree with your opinion it may have a little to do with malinchismo where Mexicans prefer outsiders or foreigners and they treat them better than natives.
Well, I have to stay, your statement does hold some truth. However, I disagree with some things. First, telling other people "we're all mestizos in the modern day Americas, aren't we?" is not always appropriate, not because it is necessarily inaccurate but because some people might not necessarily feel comfortable having their ethnicity pointed out by someone else. A more appropriate answer would be, in my opinion, "I'm French Canadian with French, Irish and First Nation ancestry, a typical North-American mestiza, and you?". In that way, you don't impose a label to another but you let the person identify him/herself with the label he/she prefers. Also, because we Mexicans often don't think or know a lot about our origins and we rarely have conversations about that, to a Mexican, it might come across as weird to have that remark made. And finally, if you went through that situation with a person, it doesn't mean that all mexicans will react like that. Also, the fact that someone has dark hair and eyes does not necessarily mean that they are not European descent as many southern Europeans have dark hair and eyes. Not saying that these people do not have native ancestry as millions of Mexicans do but linking dark eyes and dark hair with non-Europeaness is inaccurate. Not only blond, blue-eyed people are European or European descent. Millions of Europeans have dark hair and eyes. Yes, the features are different, natives looking more "asian" but dark hair and eyes can definitely be European features, specially in countries like Italy, Spain and Greece, which are definitely European. Also, you cannot assume that they invite you because they want to show off their "European friend", most Mexicans are very friendly and they would also invite you if you had other origins. This is an aspect of the Mexican culture that you might have difficulties to understand, specially if you have been in Mexico for a shorter time, but many Mexicans invite people to family gatherings and events quite often. This is different to Canada, where people are more reserved, from what I understand. And there might be an element of curiosity, specially in cases of Mexicans who have not had a lot of exposure to people of other cultures, but that doesn't mean that they see you as more relevant, interesting and cool than people from other places or than their Mexican friends. Anyway, bienvenue au Mexique! :)
This is true.. Classism exist in Mexico.. Why i know this.. My husband parents gated community in Mexico.. Imagine being the only minority that is american. That is brown skin that is none Mexican inside the gates lol. Ignorance, curiosity etc.. I remember once we was walking at night this security guard car was driving in the back just probably watching us walk.. My husband like.. i live here like defensive but in my mind I’m like it probably me lol 😂They arent use to seeing other skin colors besides light skin, especially someone thats is none-Mexican so it’s “How did this happen ?” “Do she belong here?” Yeah someone going to sneak in and get through a guarded private community with high walls that is brown lol ignorance i tell u. Oh yes the guards change every so often so it new ignorance’s and shockness. The only brown skin people inside during the day is the workers that leave at a certain time a day.. I’m use to it lol.. People stare out if curiosity, hate, intimidation etc. You have to get use to it and have a thic skin because people are cruel and hate anyone different..
Great episode!! :) I must say that up here in Canada there is also classism. Often times more subtle than some places. Yet in other ways it is almost worse when it is that subtle. For example many people will ask each other here if they work and what line of work they do. Many times they will even ask about job finances. Another common question is how much ones rent costs per month. And as if that were not enough they will also ask you what kind of a neighbourhood one grew up in or are currently living in. And those are just the tip of that iceburgh. At any rate, well done episode! :)
The Iberians made a LOT about people's class and that carried over into the areas of the new world they colonized. Racism and classism are easily intertwined and confused - it can make this harder to understand or decipher. One example of this kind of thinking can be found in my father - he believed whole heartedly that he was superior to anyone born in the new world - and you see this in a lot of the historic documents where only people who were born and educated in Spain were allowed to hold certain important positions in government and society.
Thank you for sharing.
I heard Mexico is very racist against Black Mexican.
@@danielleeverhart9423 and against is indigenous. But, it manifest in a different way to USA or South África, because here wasn't apartheid, but a cast system, simililar to India.
First at all, I'm glad you here in my town, Monterrey.
We never finish to understand this issues racism/clasism
First, clasism we felt it in how CDMX see other cities...if you are not in cdmx, then no body cares, and that mindset is from 19 century and still happens.
Monterrey has changed a lot from the last century where people were focus to create, invest, work hard, etc to have a "better life/school/car/house"
Now people are just focus in look rich and dont care about how to get rich.
So, people now see where do you live, where did you studied, etc. and try to fit the closest to the "higest standards"
Oh my, I was born to answer this question.The short answer is that in Mexico is both racist and classist but it is experienced very differently than in a place like America. Therefore it is hard for Mexicans (middle class like myself) to relate the definition of racism with our experience as we relate it more with black people and america. In Mexico, classism and racism intermix, but a person can experience both separately or together depending on many factors, not only skin color. What I mean is that a poor white will experience classism, indigenous people will experience racism, and everyone else somewhere in between.
I've lived my entire life in Monterrey but travel quite often to Texas (as certain sector of the population do). This is an issue I have asked and discussed with my family, half of it being lower class Spanish "castizo" descendants and the other half Amerindian half Spanish castizo (mestizo). As you can imagine, the Mexican middle class family looks very mixed, and because most people have absolutely no idea of their roots, overt discrimination about people skin color is not something that happens in middle and lower classes in my understanding (aside the casual joke among friends and family, like calling a white person black as a nickname or a fat person fatty. Make of it what you wish).
The most obvious kind of racism you can find in Mexico and that mostly "everyone" is guilty of, regardless of class", is against indigenous people, or whoever has indigenous like features (big noses, low stature, and dark skin), mostly because they are associated with low education and low socioeconomic status. The more of those features you share the lower your position in a company, the lower your pay, and education achievements, in general. Inside Tec de Monterrey, the "good college", it is not common to find dark skinned mexicans at all (I might be the darkest of my entire generation haha). Similarly, watching the media you only see white Spanish looking people. Inside really posh areas of San Pedro, poor indigenous looking people can even be taken out by police. But because also Mexico prides itself in it's indigenous customs as the cultural identity for everyone, discrimination against natives is also a heavily frowned upon and condemned behavior. That is why it is ok to accept yourself and your culture of being classist but not of being racist.
As for classism, as a middle class lady I only experience it in San Pedro, where people look at you as if wondering if you will have enough to generously pay, or in the worst case scenario, look at you like you don't belong there. It is almost never super overt, and as long as you prove that you have the money you will be mostly fine. You can say the darkest and smallest you are, the more you have to prove of being educated, well traveled, and economically prosperous, while facing the most barriers as well. All this happens among Mexicans, and that any foreigner, regardless of skin color, will be accepted as they are considered exotic.
Pd. This is based on my experience and comparing it to the instances of discrimination I have faced in America by being a dark skinned Mexican. The way you experience discrimination in the states is very "on your face" compared to Mexicans (in the general sense). Mexicans seem more color blind because we care way less about race. For many, because or family past are not clear, regardless of how you look you share the same background. Therefore how Mexicans distinguish themselves is by socioeconomic class and the costumes associated with each class.
This is so true! Sadly I was silent when I witnessed my White Mexican that actually is from Mexico as he consider himself high class due to attending a lot of private school since a young age and living in a gated community and this wasn’t always his life his mom was poor and his dad he don’t talk or seen them because they was rich and looked down on his mom for being poor not because of how she looked. She is white Mexican and come from Spanish and French ancestors and base on her skin tone. Anyways one day he was saying most original Mexicans or short, ugly and they are the original Mexicans not mixed and at first I didn’t know he was talking to the entire group until I look at comments like yours and others people how people talk about indigo people. I then realized he was technically racist and I don’t know if he meant just the height and wanna asked why he think they are ugly? Is it there skin tone or how they look short because apparently he light skin and look like a mixed Mexican. Btw he did comment how I had a soft voice and didn’t sound like most blacks or I look lighter then most blacks even though I see myself brown. I really don’t understand, but at this point I know he don’t think he racist and it not his fault he really good with all cultures but because he just use to see different features or people that around him and when u see someone different and the media don’t do a good job don’t represent you it affects how people grow up to think that. I’m surprised he open to date other cultures because he tried to date Indians, Nigerian, Dubai, American etc so he not racist at least not to me.
As a blonde blue eyed Tapatía that has traveled in Mexico but lives in a very Mexican community in So Cal I think many Mexicans are not only classist but colorists those 2 things usually go hand in hand. Much like presenting as white in the states, you get treated better if you are lighter. I have experienced that on both sides of the border by people of many different cultures. Those are just surface reactions in passing everyday activities.Once people get to know
you in more social or work setting is where your economic ,education , and family pedigree come into play. It’s out there and it’s very real.
I love, love, love you two xx You guys are my favorite Mexico vloggers! Having grown up in south Texas in a Latina neighborhood as a working class "Anglo" (!!) and having lived in many states plus England, and having a master's degree in Multiculturalism/Teaching English as a Second Language, I feel I have a perspective on classism vs racism. They are definitely intertwined... If there is not a melanin difference, many wealthier, educated people will look down on the uneducated. If there is a melanin difference, the "lighter skinned" dominant culture will look down on the more melinated people. The subtle difference is that racism trumps classism. Racists will put you down not matter your background, it will be based (stupidly) on the amount of melanin in your skin. Classists will begin dividing you (stupidly) between your melanin and your racial-socio-economic standing. The amount of melanin in your skin AND your racial-soci0-economic standing will sort your place in (their) society. I have seen many Latina Texans and northern Mexicans behave horribly to dark-skinned indigenous Mexicans (or Hondurans, Guatemalense, Haitians, Costa Ricans, etc. ) However, they will react favorably to light-skinned, educated Mexicans, Venezuelans, Argentinians, Chileans, Brazilians, etc. I am having difficulty blocking out classism at the moment, myself. I want to understand the right-wing conservatives of the USA (many which are family), but find myself dividing them between the high-school diploma only and the wealthy conservatives and who can be persuaded on different viewpoints and who cannot. I seem to find the racists more difficult to persuade than the classist no matter their education level. Sadly, racism has infected the globe, which doesn't allow social movement. Classism does allow social movement (as you guys stated so eloquently) if you have the "money" (capitalism 101). Mexico has been contaminated by racism (from the USA) as have many countries have throughout the world. Remember, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was not the beginning of the end of American racism. It was the beginning of our poisonous belief that America was ending racism.
Sorry but México was contaminated with Racism amoung other things,by Spain not from USA for that matter.
They began with that horrible way of treating natives as if they were animals.
Have you noticed the predominant skin tone of Mexican celebrities? It's pretty obvious. I'm half Mexican 1st generation in the US, my mother was born in Mexico. I remember when I was a little girl she used to go to TJ ,she'd cross the border just to buy special cosmetics products. One in particular was a cream with a little white shell on the label, it was a skin bleaching cream. My mom would slather that on before she brushed her bleached blonde hair. Ironically about a decade later she got super into tanning, tanning salons were all the rage all the sudden..... My Abuela's side of the family was of mostly Spanish decent, fair, blue eyes and such but my Abuelo's all looked indigenous. My mother would often tell me I was lucky I looked like my father and her mother's side of the family.... I grew up with a a sense that I had a privilege because I could "pass" as white. I'd see how my mother felt about her complexion and saw how mean/racist people could be towards her....I learned that people treated me differently. I've had people (seriously, it's usually wealthy white women) say something racist around me and become completely flummoxed after I to reveal my background...the way people will try to backpedal is kinda hilarious.
This is a very interesting topic. It seems that every country has some type of one up one down between different groups of people. Like you, I'm all about learning and understanding different cultures. I'm American but have been living in another country for over a decade. Where I live, if you weren't born here, you'll never be accepted here. Some won't hesitate to tell you to your face how much they hate Americans. Companies get away with discrimination by requiring local experience. I'll be happy when I'm back in the US.
Safe travels...awful how much hate is in this world... 😕 Safe travels
@@TheYarbros There is unfortunately. I'll just keep being friendly and open minded anyway. All the best.
@@georgejetson9801 can we ask what country this is to try to avoid it?
Yes, a very interesting topic. And, it's very helpful to folks who are contemplating a move to Mexico. Nice to see all the shopping and restaurants. But, visiting and living very different experiences. Tourists will rarely experience the inner workings of a country. It's party time for the week! But, when you are living in a place, that's when the real deal becomes important and you wish someone had at least broached the subject. Thank you for at least opening this up for investingation and discusstion.
@@trace3254 IS EXACTLY THE SAME WITH USA,I HAD TO LIVE THERE BECAUSE OF MY EX HUSBAND JOB,AND I HAD TO BE THERE 9 YEARS,I COULDN'T WAIT TO GET BACK TO MY COUNTRY AND BE WITH MY PEOPLE,SO MUCH RACISM,AND THINKING THAT USA IS THE BIGGEST D*CK IN THE WORLD IS LAME,AND I HATED LIVING THERE!! I WOULD SAY THE SAME TO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO LIVE IN USA,THINK TWICE,ALL THAT SHINES IS NOT GOLD.
In Mexico, most people are working class, the middle class is small. There is also country vs urban dynamic.
Thanks you!
Unlike America, where the to be Middle Class is to be ordinary, a middle class Mexican is like a rich person to a regular Mexican. The middle class being so small, you rarely meet them, and they are proud to be middle class. Middle Class Mexicans will say with delight that they are de 'la clase media' and in Mexico that carries weight.
This is so fucking true and goes with America as welll
3:03 right on the money!
I am a Mexican that is an obvious Mestiza and I am a physician. I am from Guadalajara. I receive classism, racism (colorism). I am invisible unless I am somewhere I “don’t belong”. I walk into my condo building and immediately placed in the working class. There’s no way someone that looks like me lives here, I must be the maid, the nanny, a worker. It doesn’t matter how I speak. I have to be completely dressed up to the nines to appear as if I belong and receive proper service wherever I go.
If I go to a humble establishment I will also receive it from people that are of lower socioeconomic backgrounds, it’s funny.
It comes from everyone and anyone.
12:45 True! They are proud of that background link that’s usually from ages ago. 😂
whitexicans have privilege even if they are a lower class. Also in the US.
All Mexicans judge appearance. Appearance is key.
13:56 No.
Thank you!!! 🤝
This is true.. Why i know this.. My husband parents gated community in Mexico.. Imagine being the only minority that is an American. That also have brown skin that is none Mexican inside the gates lol. Ignorance, curiosity etc.. I remember once we was walking at night this security guard car was driving in the back 100 feet just probably watching us walk.. My husband like.. i live here like all defensive and clueless, but in my mind I’m like it probably me lol 😂They arent use to seeing other skin colors besides light skin, especially someone thats is none-Mexican so it’s “How did this happen ?” “Do she belong here?” Yeah someone going to sneak in and get through a guarded private community with high walls that is brown skin lol. Ignorance i tell u. Oh yes the guards change every so often so it new ignorance’s and shockness. The only brown skin people inside during the day is the workers that leave at a certain time a day.. I’m use to it lol.. People stare out of curiosity, hate, intimidation etc. You have to get use to it and have a thick skin because people are cruel and hate anyone different.. It sucks because people say Mexico love tourist. Of course they do, but like u say if u stay in an area u don’t belong u become the “What the hell this brown girl is doing in this area?” Regardless if u are an American lol 😂 I think tourist don’t see it, especially black because everyone knows ok they are tourist, but u start noticing when u with someone that is Mexican and u no longer a tourist in their eyes. It more of “a wtf is this type of thing?” Or how did this happen?” 😂😂😂 You get use to it.. I like being the change in something better. Also we are the 1 in a million couple. My husband also is getting use to it because he seem clueless of racism/classism because he never had to experience it until he with me and now he doing what i do.. pretend u don’t care or notice and keep having your conversation.
You are welcome to visit Bosque Village and Erongaricuaro.
My personal opinion about clasism in monterrey:
From living in monterrey my whole life, i would say im closer to the lower class but i work at a place where our clients are like TOP upper class, and from what i can see, the upper class is like a closed group that shapes itself by the places they go, the clubs, the restaurants, the malls, everything, if you go to certain restaurant, there will only be people who know eachother, because they belong to the few richest families here, if i were to go to one of those places, they would scan me to see what family i belong to, what im wearing, if im white or not. And out course you will NOT catch me at those places cause the prices are ridiculously high, so i guess, by showing how much you can spend is a way to ‘prove’ you belong with the upper class, but also the way you dress, the car you have, the PLACE YOU LIVE, also VERY important, if you don’t luve in san pedro you will get stink looks from rich people here.
Another interesting thing i see is some of my coworkers trying to fit or blend in the upper class group, spending more money than they have, just so they could have a shot to included in the club, maybe befriending the right person, or even better, marrying rich, which is highly unlikey cause the rich families here only marry eachother
@@imhoned4532 yes, pretty much
Bien dicho amiga 💯
@@imhoned4532 That also happens in the US if you’re really rich you live in gated communities, go to private schools, and get high- paying jobs and drive expensive foreign cars, etc. 🤷🏻♂️
@@fergomez3817 You don’t have to be super rich to have those things in the U.S.
I’m middle class in America. I live in a gated community and drive an expensive foreign car. I also attended a private university and recently (semi) retired from a high-paying career.
I guess I would be considered rich in Mexico.
I was Lucky to find a well off Mexican who is white Mexican that live in gated community and got into the top medical school and I’m not even Mexican and brown skin, but this is true because my soon to be fiancé his brother have all low income friend probably mostly women because he invited some to his parents house and they was upset because he use the excuse my fiancé brought me in the house when I’m part family lol while my fiancé friends are from his private university or Starbucks. They don’t realize that they are getting the worst kid in the family while I was lucky to get the best even his father remind me his son is very smart and successful because he already own his own house and car so his life is set now his second to older brother is lazy, have no car, or house he just stupid basically he said and his friends are only with him because he got money but really don’t it just family money now once his family is gone my fiancé said he will have no one and he not helping him at all because that’s on him. I hope you too get lucky
14:35 Yep, is something like that, you´re right.
The racist in Mexico is not bad like many years in the past. I’m whitemexican green eyes ,white skin and black hair. And my friends that are whites (gueros) and browns (morenos) we are good friends, no matter eye colour, hair colour , beard colour etc.
Just make jokes about our physical appearance for fun. It’s really funny. But I think that’s in the big mexican cities with more races and people who came from different countries and different Mexican states. People from towns or gated communities where predominate native Mexicans , are really closed mind, actually hate white people and you can feel you are not welcome, no matter if you’re foreigner or white Mexican.
Really interesting video guys, cheers!!!! ✌🏻
Thanks for watching and commenting. You find that in the states as well ppl who are in the rural areas are most cut off from diversity....interesting take. Thanks again!
I thank you for your Information and well put together
I am a white Mexican female, from a socially prominent family who just by the way I look would get privileges and an easier way BUT then I would get hit with the machismo and condescending attitudes that "be pretty but not too smart". Naturally I rebelled. Hahahaha
I am from an enlightened family, very democratic BUT... you better not cross the lines and stay where you belong. I grew up with a Nanny that followed me around with an umbrella so I wouldn't get any sun (ordered by my grandmother who was very Victorian), I was sent to Finishing School, etc. yet I paid my own way through 3 master's (very much against my family because who wants a smart female) worked in the US and around the world and ended up being a Chef with 7 restaurants yet I was looked down on for providing a "service" (like the help),,, Of course I married "beneath me", I knew all the wealthy jerks and no way! But I can tell you that we are not Mexican enough for Mexico and not Gringo enough for the US and yes, I've been discriminated IN THE US! Followed out of the market for speaking Spanish (we are all 100% fluent in various languages and have double citizenship, and yes my family is Spanish from way back) and I was the first to win a employment discrimination lawsuit against a former employer with the EEOC!
Now we do not feel nor act "entitled" but many of our neighbors do, they don't even talk to the cleaning people, security people, etc. and they don't get as much attention and regard as we do just being nice to people. We've always lived well (fortunately) in every country we've ever been to, we travel a lot. I am now retired and a widow, my youngest son came to live with me and we are now travel companions and have a great time and I always taught my children to be educated, well mannered, kind and considerate to ALL (and they are, really great people I am proud to say). Be well, enjoy your travels in our enchanting country!
Sounds like your family was very close minded and very insecure. Talk about self loathing. I hope your family has changed their way of thinking. The color of your skin does not reflect your worth. Education starts at home.
Thank you very much for sharing your experiences and revealing the other side of the coin. You gave us a lot to consider. -Bendiciones
@@MexiPanda Well said… Talk about delusional 😂😂😂
Thanks for explaining the difference of our history in real life
Very cool video. I was born in Monterrey, and you’ll hit a good topic. I’m glad you’ll are visiting Mexico and showing the good side
Thank you!
If y’all ever go back to Monterrey y’all NEED to visit Parque La Estanzuela! It’s soooo beautiful with gorgeous ponds of water. Very intense hike to the top being fully immersed in trees and nature!
Okay! Thank you!
This is a difficult subject but all in all I think Mexico has some of all that was discussed- a little racism, a lot of classism, a lot of colorism, a lot of nationalism but all the pails in comparison to the centuries old, deep- seeded systemic racism of countries like the US 🤷🏻♂️✌️👍
Thanks for commenting! It is difficult. Each colony had its own evils to deal with that evolved into the problems each nation faces today. Thanks again for expressing yourself out here. That was courageous and we appreciate it.
The first black president in America happened to be black and a patriotic Mexican (not Obama). He tried to get rid of the caste system based on race and class structure. You can check out what happened to him, and Mexico still has class structure.
Who are you referring to? Knowledge is power.
I have this same argument with alot of other Mexicans who refuse to acknowledge that there is racism in Mexico. Their idea of racism is what they see in America but they don't realize there's different looks to racism. If you're discriminating against someone solely based on the color of their skin then that's racism. I've experienced racism and microaggressions in Mexico as an educated indigenous looking woman.
Yeah, lots of misunderstandings and misnomers of cultural norms and what not.
lately there are a lot of black south american refugees and immigrants here in monterrey, i see a lot of them in my neighborhood and i think it’s super nice that the new government is willing to help them and include them in society, also i see locals being very interested and curious about them because they stand out, because of our physical differences
Refugees than they are poor. Where are they living? How are they eating? What job's are they going to have? Do they have children with them? How did they arrived at Monterrey?
Of course people would be curious with brown skin.
@@holdupnow2326 i would love to know the answer to those questions, all i know is there’s a place called DIF and others like churches where immigrants can stay and live for free, they also get physiological help, and i’ve seen personally a couple of them who have had children with locals a few neighborhoods away. And just to clarify, there’s a lot of brown people here too, just not with the same characteristics of black people like the hair. And most of them arrive here by train, most of them have the goal of actually getting to the US, monterrey is just a few hours away from there
@@holdupnow2326 there are brown Mexicans in Mexico lol
@@cloudbunny935 there are black Mexicans…in Mexico
@@ayuanabradford3206 i’m aware, i’ve lived here my whole life
I’m an American of Mexican descent, my family settled in what is now Northern New Mexico/Southern Colorado in the early 1600s during the Spanish Conquest of what is now the southwestern USA. My family is mixed Spanish and Native American blood, since the expeditions to that region where so far away few Spanish women made the trek; however, there were lots of Native American women who were available for marriage that could supply a Spanish settler with both expertise on land usage and an extended family to fall back on in hard times. A Native American family could benefit from having a Spanish son in law in regards to protection from other Spaniards claim to Christian property. My family was and still considered a rich (now upper middle class)family with ranches, property and education. Now that I live in Mexico, I see the classism played out in much the same way that racism is played out in the USA, except not as blatantly. Classism is much more like unearned privilege. The Mexicans I encounter are very nice people, but they are always curious about my heritage and education (I’m a retired Federal Agent/US Diplomat with a college degree) I do speak Spanish with a 16th century accent). They are especially confounded when I’m around other Americans and speak and “act” just like a Gringo, and yes, I am a light skinned Mexican American (Chicano).
The discrimination in the US and México is different. In the USA it's more rooted in race....and in México it's more rooted in how much money you have. In the United States even a rich person can still be hated/discriminated because of skin color.....in México once you jump the economic scale discrimination ends for you. Another thing....in the United States people have killed for hating a certain skin color.....in México you don't become a victim of a hate crime just for just being poor....you only get discriminated, ignored, etc, so it's more of a "stuck up" discrimination.....not a racial type of of discrimination that can be violent like in the United States. (Remember Dylan Roof) I would say the United States's style of discrimination is worse because it can be deadly.
True
I think you guys got it spot on, I’ve seen very little racism in my 20 something years in Mexico however poor people are seen as criminals and treated poorly regardless of their skin color. In the US I have been there very little and I do have some memories of racism from the time I went to donate plasma and while waiting I saw 3 cops arresting a black man with a bike, they threw him to the ground like he was armed or Something.
I lived in Mexico for a while and I noticed the white collar workers, seem more respected for some reason... The guys that really work physically hard are a class below regardless of the shade of skin. However that being said within a large family group I saw the division of classes even within the family... Some working harder to wear fancy clothes to gatherings.... Some that don't care... I think this is for sure a curiosity... Love you both! Thank you for seeking feedback on this topic!
When you have diversity in any culture in the world you're going to have a certain amount of us and them mentality, whether we label this as racism or classism, this is a fact of life pretty much everywhere. Generalization will be the downfall of man, when we start looking at people as individuals, not as a race, Creed, color or religion then maybe our society will take a step forward in the right direction.
I think they're both one in the same to a degree PS you both are super cool people👍🏼❤
No matter where we are, there are racism and classism. We live in such an imperfect world. Go to Asia if you know what I'm talking about. Greetings from the Twin Cities!
I totally agree with you Khmer. This is a waste of time because it is everywhere, unfortunately.
@@gregorgman It's much worst in Asia. I had to live through the genocide from the communist Pol Pol from 1975 to 1979. Most of my family members were wiped out!
@@KhmerMinnesnowta So very sorry to hear about your family.
As a future traveler, I think this is a topic that I will steer clear of. I’m glad you guys have addressed it so people like me can get an idea of how topics like this are received by the locals.
I’ve learned that it’s fine to address specific issues that we may face as Americans (tourist scams, etc.), but I think this particular topic can bring you “unwanted attention” from the people who benefit from the privileged class there.
I think it’s a topic that should be addressed by Mexicans. As Americans, we tend to have a savior complex when we’re abroad. We see inequality and we want to make it right. It’s in our nature, but (as harsh as it may sound) it’s not our cross to bear.
In other words, we need to remember that Mexico is not the U.S. As a black American, I would not expect Mexican expats or tourists to come here and march for us or use their platforms to address systemic racism in America. I’d expect them to come here and continue to benefit from our resources and not rock the boat.
Enjoy life.
Love you guys. ❤️
One of our main reasons for travel is understanding. We love it. I don't see any harm in seeking out the truth. Thanks for watching.
Good observation! I’ve been an expat 3 times: Egypt, Kuwait and Qatar and I’ve traveled extensively. Yes, never bring up “deep” topics like this with locals. We? Americans and westerners (some) are comfortable with having deep talk. Most other cultures are not….and especially not with a foreigner. I spent time in Brazil and they have the same classism, colorism and racism like Mexico.. but probably worse. Most Brazilian won’t admit that they have black dna! They are so brainwashed!
The class system varies from city to city in mexico in some is just about money. But in San Pedro its about money but most importantly, family lineage, what kind of education you have and what do you do for living or what kind of business do you own.
I lot of new money or new rich people wont be accepted in the real San Pedro high social circles. Doesnt matter how much money you have.
A clear example of this is El Campestre de Monterrey the membership is 3 million USD, but you still have to be accepted. Many people try to get in offering even more than the 3 million dollars and they still get rejected cause they are not from a known San Pedro Family. Family lineage its really important in San Pedro.
For me classism had an impact , Mexican society likes to pretend to have more money than they really do . Putting themselves on high class in the social life when they aren’t really wealthy but pretend to be .
I am Mexican living in USA , my husband is American and we have 2 kids (white kids) and i remark “white” because Mexican culture like “gringos” because coming from USA means dollars and in their minds they thing all people from USA , specially “gringos” are rich 🤑
When we go visit mom and dad to México , people treat my husband and my kids better that they treat me 😢
I love México and my people , but they are classist 😞
Do u know what gringos actually mean lol ?
Yes I do know what “gringo” means , but people in general think that “gringo” means Caucasian, and it doesn’t mean that .
@@mariaangelicaasche2435 No you Dont lol. It means back in history where white folks stold land and they was on the green land and they wanted them to go and get off there land. Gring= green go- get the hell out of country
Hello from Apodaca near Monterrey welcome
Gracias!
Racism in USA: You can marry that black guy (in any class, unless my greed is willing to over look that)
Classism: you can’t marry that Poor guy. But if you’re dating in the desired class higher preference for the more European decent.
And the browner you are it’s harder to get a white collar job because those jobs are offered by networking with upper class who have connections or have prestigious degrees from private or foreign universities. In general it’s just hard to go up a class because you are limited by your education, network, and skin color by assumed origin if you came from a agricultural/indigenous village versus growing up in a major city and going to the best schools
Basically there is no KKK/nazi equivalent to classism in Mexico. It is more about what resources can that person bring, such as sales or technical expertise for jobs. And money, financial security and connections and status for marriage/dating
Sounds like it's more about leverage than equality. Ppl want to know what are you bringing to the table...but generally lighter skinned ppl have more to bring to the table due to the privileges that have been granted.?.
@GILBERTAVILA ,,,,VERY TRUE!,THAT IS THE WAY IS IS HERE,DON'T LIKE IT,DON'T COME! EASY!
The difference between Mexican society and American society dates back to the colonial era. There's relatively less racism in Mexico because since the colonial period started, the Spanish had no problem marrying local women and mixing with the local population. This also applied to mixing with imported African slaves too. That is why most Mexicans are mixed. Yes there was a caste system that documented and even limited your possibilities in life based on what your racial combination was, but it was possible to rise in life or to have children who were higher up the ladder than you were based on who you married. It wasn't like in the USA where if you were dark skinned you were stuck even if you married a white person.
New Spain was setup to be a part of Spain with its own viceroy acting in the name of the King, and Mexico in effect functioned as if it were part of Spain with citizens for the most part being full subjects of the Spanish crown with all of the same rights and obligation but functioned as its own self contained society.
The British on the other hand had the exact opposite mentality. They're goal was not to mix with the population but to exterminate them and exploit the resources. Only the white British born people were considered citizens were considered full subjects of the British crown. Also rather than function as part of Britain, the New England colonies were only there to export resources back to Britain. That's why they only sent people they didn't want starting trouble in England like the puritans and quakers. For Britain it was a win win, they got rid of troublemakers (who in turn got more freedom to do as they pleased, whether socially or religiously), and got resources sent back to Britain by these same people.
So when Mexico became independent it inherited that culture from the Spanish, but also expanded upon that. For example slaves were already Spanish subjects and had certain rights. So independent Mexico took it a step further and just freed them all and gave them full rights. Whereas in the USA they weren't citizens at all even after independence. There was no 3/5ths clause in Mexico.
Interesting...take. I agree w/ a lot of it but definitely believe the colonizers all had their brand of evil that they planted. Thanks for contributing to the conversation. We appreciate it!
@@TheYarbros oh I completely agree, a colonizer is a colonizer and inherently acts in its own selfish interests. Thats why both societies still have their own problems inherited from those times.
I work in HR, and an example of very marked classism in Mexico is that in renowned private companies where you studied is very important. Many companies only hire people from universities such as ITESM known as TEC, ITAM, IBERO, LAS AMERICAS (from Puebla) UP, ANAHUAC, which are supposedly the TOP !. Discarding candidates from not so well known universities, even if they are private or from UNAM and the Polytechnic (IPN). And obviously there is also discrimination based on appearance, and maybe even zip code.
In a positive way, it is like you are used to people behaving in a similar way or with similar values to the ones you have and having respect and talking points that you have. For example, in a meeting, they will talk about the same things, travel stores, experience, traffic in their areas, and they will complain about the same things, if someone does not fit in, they will feel inappropriate.
You have heard the term NACO and FRESA, ask on your channel, defining these terms in detail will be very rich and would be a good topic for a second part of this video.
I’m an Armenian woman who was born and raised in the USA and I am currently living in Mexico. I don’t think I face racism or classism (at least I haven’t that I know of yet in the month and a half I’ve been living here). I get people looking at me a lot but I’m not sure exactly what the looks they’re giving me are. Perhaps they look at me because they’ve never seen an Armenian woman in person before and/or because I’m new to Mexico and as a result, still dress like an American. Not sure. But I don’t think I face racism or classism. However, I do face misogyny/sexism/patriarchy here. There is a lack of respect for women. But patriarchy also exists in every country, and it is not unique to Mexico. Mexico has been incredible, warm, welcoming, and kind to me and I feel very happy living here compared to the United States. I do want to note that I do believe I have privilege as an Armenian-American woman. I don’t think I face classism or racism in Mexico because Armenians tend look somewhat Mediterranean/Middle Eastern (similar to Spanish people), so I might “pass” for Spanish + I also have an income of an American, which also puts me at a financial advantage (and I guess protects me from classism in a way).
Your light skin. They might be looking at you because your different and beautiful. Remember light skin is considered better in Mexico while dark skin is not. Sad but it true. Lucky my husband is White Mexican and in his eyes I’m beautiful. We are one in a million because it extremely rare to find a high class Mexican to date a foreigner that is none European..So yeah.. Also the sexism i can see that a bit to because i remember we took uber back to his parents gated community and the driver didn’t even really care for me he simply gave a business card to my husband, etc it was more of him thinking because my husband had the money and i was nothing i guess. In reality. He didn’t realize i was the tourist and more friendly than my husband who is close off and cold and i had the tip money.. he didnt get a tip from neither of us..The first uber driver was nice he was a gentleman and he open the door and everything.
It is complicated even for us (mexicans) to understand this topic.
In my opinion there are racism and clasism here in MX but it works different than in the US (which is deeper, focalized and more public).
Here the racism means that people think the native americans, their laws, traditions and style of life contributes to keep the country in the third world (fortunately that is fastly changing this days).
Racism is very very very condemned in MX that's why most of racists keep in the shadows.
Clasism comes from the days we were Spain. It means that if I have money or I come from a "old or famous family" (even if now that family is broke) I am "better" that others because of that. 200 years after Spain that crap stills working for some mexicans.
Maybe I am wrong because I don't care about that stupid way of thinking and I am just talking about what I have seen and heard.
For me each and every person are the same and have the same potential if they have the balls.
Saludos from Yucatán.
Saludos! Thanks for this logical and clearly written explanation and expression of your opinions. They make a lot of sense to me. Thanks again!
Great video, very thoughtful discussion. I’ve read a few books on Latin American history. One really interesting book “Life and Death in the Andes” shed some light on wealth and how the top 1% richest ppl in the former Spanish colonies are still descendants of the Conquistadors. Preservation of family wealth is the basis for classism - and by default - racism. It’s not a popular thing to point out that Pablo Escobar was so well-loved by the working class because he was doing things like funding soccer fields and community centers for the forgotten classes, the descendants of the Ancient peoples. It became really easy for the police (often from working class families) to look the other way when it came time to pursue Escobar and his cartel.
I agree with you guys, that classism and racism are parallel evils. However, USA racism is based largely on hatred, fear, and envy while Latin classism leans more on arrogance and "natural" privilege. Classism in Mexico and Latin America in general pivots a lot on "educacion y cultura," the way you speak and carry yourself in society. That's part of why you have honorifics and open respect for doctors, lawyers, engineers, professors, etc. that are not so apparent or prevalent in the USA, where money trumps everything. That's part of why teachers are so much more respected in Latin America than in the USA. But of course, people who have better education and "higher" culture generally attained that in large part because of their national and ethnic origins. So Indigenous are generally at the bottom and people of more obvious European origins are at the top, historically and generally. Still, Mexico elected an Indigenous man, Benito Juarez to the presidency in 1858, overlooking his "Indian-ness" in favor of his education, intelligence, and force of character. That didn't happen in the USA until 2008. To paraphrase President Obama (who borrowed from Theodore Parker), I'd also like to believe that the arc of history bends toward justice and, like in the USA, things in Latin America have improved in the last decades. But true justice is still a hell of a way off all over the damn place. Viva Zapata!
The truth here is that, basically, if you have money, for example, in an restaurant, they going to give you preference to you in everything, better attention from the waitress, just maybe due the car that you drive or even the clothes you're dressing, or even your hair style, Believe it or not that's truth, and by the other hand if arrive to the same restaurant driving an old car and may be you're not wearing good clothes, may be you won't get the same service compared with the first ones that I mentioned, and that's true, then is when we call it that you're suffering classism in Mexico, just due the way you dress or simple things, like the car brand that you're driving. This kind of situation could happen in the Andares area here in Guadalajara.
I've been watching your videos for months
Hi #2 👋🏾🤣🤣🤣
@@TheYarbros thanks for the heart 🇲🇽
@@jarethmarroquin5139 Thank you for watching and keeping up w/ us!
Great video, and this is a valid conversation. I'll just leave yall with a quote "We understand that racism is an excuse used for capitalism, and we know that racism is just a byproduct of capitalism." ~ Chairman Fred Hampton
I would say that we also know that classism is a byproduct of Capitalism. Therefore, we know that there is common adversary. We just cant talk about the 'Big C'.
Interesting you brought this up.. me being a Asian American living in Mexico, while in the US, everything is defined by the color of your skin. I do notice there is really no such thing as "race" here, you can be Brown, White, light-skinned Brown or Black in Mexico (Asian otherwise), at the end of the day, you are still defined as Mexican if you are born and raised there. The society is categorized by class status, and most will look down on you if you have no education with labor jobs
Look... In Mexico you will not find the hate between groups, that you can find in the U.S all across the U.S you see people screaming at each other just because they're different, you will not see this very common in Mexico at all.
😂 lies!
Mexico's infamous corruption is one of the main underlying reason why most people in power financially or politically are and have been in those positions for generations. Example: the new governor (who stole the election) of nuevo leon, has colored eyes, light skin and is the millennial son of a former governor of the same state. His dad is widely known to have close ties to cartels. Call it racism or classism they're both forms of discrimination perpetuated by those of predominantly European descent. Its been this way since the Spanish came to Mexico.
My wife and I were discussing this topic. I believe that greed is the nucleus of both instances. If people want more bad enough, they will put others down, weather it be their skin color or social status, clothes they wear etc… to get more.
There is another issue to consider. Makes has a steep power distance gradient between those who are in charge and those who follow. This lends itself to imperious/classist interactions amongst different social groups.
Great to hear you do not feel effected by racism and classism in Mexico.
They are tourist…
Why i know this.. My husband parents gated community in Mexico.. Imagine being the only minority that is an American. That also have brown skin that is none Mexican inside the gates lol. Ignorance, curiosity etc.. I remember once we was walking at night this security guard car was driving in the back 100 feet just probably watching us walk.. My husband like.. i live here like all defensive and clueless, but in my mind I’m like it probably me lol 😂They arent use to seeing other skin colors besides light skin, especially someone thats is none-Mexican so it’s “How did this happen ?” “Do she belong here?” Yeah someone going to sneak in and get through a guarded private community with high walls that is brown skin lol. Ignorance i tell u. Oh yes the guards change every so often so it new ignorance’s and shockness. The only brown skin people inside during the day is the workers that leave at a certain time a day.. I’m use to it lol.. People stare out of curiosity, hate, intimidation etc. You have to get use to it and have a thick skin because people are cruel and hate anyone different.. It sucks because people say Mexico love tourist. Of course they do, but like u say if u stay in an area u don’t belong u become the “What the hell this brown girl is doing in this area?” Regardless if u are an American lol 😂 I think tourist don’t see it, especially black because everyone knows ok they are tourist, but u start noticing when u with someone that is Mexican and u no longer a tourist in their eyes. It more of “a wtf is this type of thing?” Or how did this happen?” 😂😂😂 You get use to it.. I like being the change in something better. Also we are the 1 in a million couple. My husband also is getting use to it because he seem clueless of racism/classism because he never had to experience it until he with me and now he doing what i do.. pretend u don’t care or notice and keep having your conversation.
I’ve seen classism in Mexico, however not directed at us…mostly towards indigenous or people who look indigenous. Especially if you appear dressed in traditional clothing… Great discussion ya’ll. I’m binging on your recent video while waiting for my son’s class to end.
Well we hope it was satisfying 😄
@@TheYarbros Yes definitely and thank you for tuning in today on my LIVE. Much appreciated.
you guys are right, i think that in Mexico exist more classism, im Mexican and i can confirm that, i hope that more mexicans can make more awararness about this problem and fix it, excellent job.
Both are horrible..
This is a very interesting topic. Both of my great grandfathers had tons of land in central Mexico but after the communist leadership took place also known as the porfiriato in the late 1800’s, they lost almost everything. The reason was, this dictator didn’t believe mestizos and indigenous Mexicans were capable of administrating their own land, therefore he brought many Europeans from different countries mainly Italians, giving them millions of acres all across the country, providing them with free farming equipment and cheap indigenous labor..
Truth? We live in Juriquilla, an affluent suburb of Querétaro. The maids, gardeners, guards and workers here, largely, arrive in the morning and leave at night. I notice, as a Canadian, that people in my neighbourhood all greet each other, but never the workers. It is absolute. We were thinking about this today. To do differently would be strange. México, more than any place I have been is firmly and deeply classist. Oddly, being privelaged, at least by Mexican standards, we find ourselves observing the "rules".
I was born in 78 but let me tell you guys it has gotten better , back then most of the people tend to pretend they have money by the cloths they were wearing or the way they speak but like a said it has got way better we’re back to embracing our roots again
Classism and racism end up being the same, that is, the need to feel superior over someone else. It’s part of human nature I think because you see it everywhere, even among the people who are being discriminated.
I’ve seen poor people and ppl of color discriminate against their own peole.
Interesting, thank you.
Thank you for watching!
I'm no expert on this either but from my perspective, (and it probably existed before then) but you mentioning the caste system makes most sense to me. Classism is generally similar to racism minus the qualifier of race. If someone seems well off, educated, etc., they get a pass. But first impression is the general stereotype people have for the "class" or group they could be lumped into.
It exists in the states also... i usually get a response from people based on my non-white (mexican-American) look, but as soon as I mention I'm a veteran, their tone changes, once they get a feel for how much house I have ($$$), they adjust again, they see i have a white wife, again, and so on. People create a level of respect for you based on what they know or see, but it also says alot about them when you see it happening in real time
Caste system was a racist system because they put you in the level according to you race , top levels were for Spanish born in Spain and Spanish born in Mexico in that order, the last levels where Indigenous and black people in that order, black people where slaves.
@@juliomendoza7681 Where was mixed people in this Pardo?
@@ayuanabradford3206 yes mestizos , salta Patras , mulatos and others.
Classist, not racist you say. OK, but it’s interesting how the higher classes tend to have lighter colored skin, and the lowest classes tend to be comprised of the indigenous peoples of the south of the country.
I first came to México in 1978 and have lived in many regions of the country. I believe that classism and racism do intersect here in México. Alejandro Lipschutz of Chile was the first to speak of “Pigmentocracia” in Latin America, or the way your pigment does definitely affect your access to opportunities to acquire education, professional status and wealth. And let us not forget that the entire stratification of society began with the caste system the Spanish established during colonization.
You tell no lies and I don't disagree. We asked Mexico and that was their answer. We'll be talking with some indigenous ppl and ppl of darker skin soon to hear what they have to say soon....
I would say in general that Classicism is the norm throughout Latin America. Some countries it is more subtle than in others. When I went to college in the early 1980's, I had several friends from affluent families from Mexico attend my school. Most decided to stay in the US or relocate to Europe due to sexism and family pressure to conform to societal expectations. I'm a real estate agent in California and I have many clients who are dual citizens who are Mexican/American. They found it much easier to succeed in the US than in Mexico. In my experience in the US, if an immigrant owns their own business they will do better in the US whether it be in the trades ( construction related), restaurant, or any service sector. While in Mexico, social mobility is seen through education exclusively. As far as the US goes, the second generation generally has very limited discrimination.
Some of the other countries in the Americas that have colorism is Argentina which still sees themselves as Europeans, Chile. Brasil. I would think that Bolivia would have the lowest level of classicism.
Thank you fornthe valuable insight!
Great presentation about racism and classicism in Mexico. Unfortunately, I think it's a universal problem.
Absolutely universal but each region, has its own tint and ways of acknowledging and eventually overcoming these seeds of division.
It's interesting to see the remnants if a failed cast system. Where do we fit in...how do we ensure that we aren't part of any lingering issues.
I am writing from state of Veracruz. My wife is from here and we have been visiting old friends and relatives.People are a little darker down in southern Mexixo, but some of the relatives have lighter skin or colored eyes.This said we all socialize and seem to appriciate everybody.If a young person from Cuba or the Dominican with obvious business talent came here I am sure they would fit right in if they were respectable with good manners.
This is a great conversation. I'm not going to voice my thoughts in the comments because it's such a loaded topic, but as an observer of Mexican culture, I think I share the same views and thoughts that you all shared. Also, that was a great question that was asked at the end; are their laws in Mexico that protect people who may be discriminated against? Now I'll have to put my Inspector Gadget hat on do some research. haha
Classism comes from the system, neoliberal corruption indoctrination. People learned that they would have to be criminals to be someone, that if you wanted to be rich you only had two options, becoming a corrupt politician or a drug lord. Therefore classism was born, by the taught that good people can’t be rich, only the humble is considered good. It’s like fanatic religion, a belief that guides their life.
Fascinating and it makes sense. Thanks for dropping some knowledge.
Thank you for this discussion. I found it very interesting and here’s my two cents. I’ve always thought the people in power went to US to be more like Mexico. They want a huge income discrepancy. Then the presidency can be more like a kinship or dictatorship. The consequences crime becomes more frequent and cost of living goes up. The poor are truly envious and hate the rich, and the poor are Invisible and the rich could care less about their concerns. The power imbalance becomes greater. The poor are just trying To stay alive avoid a virus, the middle class shrinks and the rich do whatever they please. Add to this mix drugs Drugs which deadened the pain of the poor and and indulge the hedonism of the rich and you can have a nightmare story.
The hope is that people wake up, gross consumerism becomes a fad and peoples inherent goodness prevails. The warmth of the Mexicans is what I see in a lot of peoples videos. Here in the US aside from all the problems, I still see that too
Keep these thought provoking videos coming
In a nutshell, cinderella story as seen in many telenovelas. Usually the new rich are the ones that treat others unfairly, as they want to draw the line as to they no longer belong to the hood, as old money are educated to treat others with respect (cant generalize thou). Hopes this helps.
So, funny that really is a stereotype that I have seen play out at home over and over. New money always showing a flex 💪🏾 🤣🤣🤣
Y’ALL ARE IN MONTERREY? nice! hope to see y’all around sometime
They are both the same thing in my opinion because both involve one person feeling superior to the other person. If you look at Mexican telenovelas all the protagonists are fair skinned and the maids, butlers, and everyday people are dark.
That explains why in my husband, parent’s gated community i get stares lol 😂 One. I’m not Mexican and Two. I’m brown.
You're definitely right about the classism here in Monterrey. I'm British and people here expect that I must live in the San Pedro or San Geronimo areas. When I tell them I live in Guadalupe, they raise an eyebrow. The type of music you listen to gets considered. Listen to Cumbia like the kind by Celso Piña and you kind of get frowned on.
Ppl pay attention to what you're listening to... interesting!
😁😁😁 I love that term you use ( whitesicans ) my wife and are both born in Chicago, me also raised. We spent most of the year here since 2005 and have a home in Playa del Carmen, her family from Monterrey Mexico, my heritage from chihuahua Mexico. She actually passed away here in playa in 2018 from an asthma attack…. What we always noticed here in Mexico 🇲🇽 the majority of the time it’s all about money 💰 and who you know period. Here you truly see the term , money 💰 talks and 🐂💩walks come to life 😂😂😂
I love y’all’s energy have a blessed day and much success 🙏🙏🙏👊🏼
Thank you!
Awesome topic and love the shirt Rondell, solidarity always to you both. I'm pretty damn political and was wondering alot about just this topic as it pertains to down there in Mexico. I did alot of reading about buying land and found the reasons foreigners can't purchase within 100 miles of a beach or border is primarily because of what the Spanish did. I read about the revolution and Emiliano Zapata in particular. I think just a short video on youtube about his life will perfectly tie all the things you see with what went down.