STorM32 3-axis gimbal default settings test (courtesy GearBest)
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Product page (GearBest): goo.gl/M6NS8i
STorM32 gimbal controller wiki: goo.gl/HdttwA
RCGroups thread: goo.gl/YBvaKs
Reasons to use 2nd IMU: goo.gl/TueBfK
OlliW's UA-cam channel: / olliw42
Seems like a few people are confused:
1. The two most common gimbal firmware are: AlexMos and Olliw. You need to use the correct configuration program for each.
2. If you're having strange issues or i2c errors or movements on the gimbal then you need a low-pass filter on the power because your powersource is noisy. This is especially true if you're using the gimbal on a quad copter.
So cool approach of adding the second camera to see the gimbal's operation. It hard to believe how well it handles the movements. Nice video, simple and demonstrative!
Did enjoy the "sound effect:" as you were walking down the path. I'm pretty sure you got that beast's thought wrong, I'll bet it was thinking "moooooove on".
Pretty good information. There are so many subtle details in getting started with the software tools that get overlooked in setups (things as simple as how to extract the package so you don't end up with hundreds of unwanted folders and run into stoppages because the file path is too long. so that held me back for some time.
Also it didn't like my regulated bench supply at first - saying in the middle of configuring to connect the battery, yet it was configuring OK up to that point. Disconnect everything, start over and it went OK.
Also I see you have it mounted with the power cable forward. Lots of other videos show the power cable to the back and the printed sheet in the box would lead me to consider that as well so I did mine like that. During Data Display, my pitch numbers were negative. Something as simple as rotating the controller 180 degrees should solve that little hiccup. Mine came with version 090 installed but the sheet says v070. The grey message screen at the bottom of the v070 GUI will inform users that the controller is not supported but it also indicates the firmware version it finds on the hardware so you're not left guessing.
So this gimbal and software is not for the faint of heart, IMHO. I trust the end result will be rewarding. It's an economical option to get my feet wet in gimbal operations in general. Ultimately I'd like to get a bigger gimbal suitable for a consumer camcorder and/or NEX 7 style of camera.
One pressing question until I find a good discussion group: How warm should the motors be to the touch? On first power up I thought they were unusually hot. I took that as an indication they were working too hard to maintain orientation.
In my experience the motors get a tiny bit warm. You could try reducing the motor vmax value. There is a HUGE amount of information on the main wiki: www.olliw.eu/storm32bgc-wiki (look at 'Manuals & Tutorials')
Pretty much by far the most concise detailed video I've seen on UA-cam. Exc lent info iforce. Great editing to match both video's. Sick park as well, only in NZ can you get cows in a park. Thanks going to mount this on my f550 for sure!
I have just ordered this for my HMF U580 Quadcopter to replace my old 3D gimbal, cheers for the link Chris, looks like it works really well, I will hook up a FPV cable to it as well.
I purchased a 2 axis gimbal ,it was configured for gopro,but i have sjcam soon to be replaced wit Gitup git2,.Anyways i balanced it with 2 UK coins to make the weight up and reconfigured ,and it seams to work.
Your video's are all absolutely amazing and very informative ! Great job !
Hi, calibrate the gimbal and I give write eeprom + store and stabilizes me, but when you disconnect the battery and connect it does not stabilize the camera is fixed, you know it can be?
Where can I buy that cable you are using to connect to the board? Mine broke
Very nice video! I rly like your style of making videos like that! The only problem is that i want to have that gimbal now, especially for that price!
Nice review!
You used stock, factory settings ?
Thanks !
Greetings from Ukraine !!! :)
On an average how much time does a 2200 mah LIPO battery will last for running this gimbal, or any average time stats on the battery you are using...?
You should check out the Espruino Project for the STM32 Chips. Its a Javascript on a microcontroller!
Hello, you can spend the parameter file gimbal? I need mine did not work .. greetings and thanks
+Wiscomic Reviews you mean the firmware to flash onto the board? You can find it at the links in the description.
hi bought same 3 AXIS Gimbal it lights up but wouldnt stabilize am using a 3-70v 850omah dont weather its not powerfull enough to run it ? i have now ordered a stronger battery 11v 1500 to see if it would work can u advice
It should be mentioned on the included spec sheet (eg. 10:18 ) that is uses a 3-4 cell lipo. I think I also ran it on 2S, but the tuning might need to be slightly different.
when u ran yours on 2s did it stabilize?Sorry i meant a 7.4v 1500mah ordered or should I order a more powerful b/w 11v &16v as its say on specs you have highlighted, what size battery are u using on yours ?Also I am able to access gimbal through downloaded firmware so its not faulty .how would you go about tuning it?
Figured it out now gimbal now works prefectly, needed stronger bat. Only issue now is how to clip gimbal to Drone without need for strap lol
One question. Can I use 1 battery for both my drone and hakrc gimbal by connecting the female balance plug(battery) to to the male balance plug(gimbal, the ones at the side of the board)? Thanks.
Yes, that's what I do.
iforce2d i was referring to the one at 21:15 , those look like balance male sticks. Anyway if you knew i was referring to those then thank you! Will try doing that. Thanks! :)
No, not those pins! Those are for RC control, as shown at 10:44. Power needs to be connected to the two main power wires.
iforce2d oh right. Thanks mate! Will have to figure out how to connect both my drone and gimbal to my battey. Thanks!
Thank you for making this video!
I've got a Mini Alexmos 2-axis Brushless Gimbal Controller BGC V2.2 DRV8313 Motor Driver I could never get to work do you want it I can send it.
Btw Olli's gymbal is amazing
Oh man. A Micro 3 axis brushless gimbal for the Runcam Split 2 would be awesome. Since this video is nearly two years old, what are the the smallest brushless motors now days?
When I put my gimbal on, the battery turns on but it can't calibrate .. after I connect the USB to the computer, it says the battery is not connected .. what should I do
How to adjust yaw??
I wonder if there is a variation on the 32bit gimbal boards? Is there only one ? Is there a bad one and a good one?
There are many variants, the wiki is packed with info, take a look around there:
www.olliw.eu/storm32bgc-wiki/STorM32_Boards
Greetings, Really enjoyed your presentation. I am wondering if you think that the HAKrc could be modified to be used on a selfie stick? At this time I am not interested in a quad; I'm just looking for a way to capture my own inline speed skating for training. As I imagine it, I would need to provide a housing for the IC board and battery pack and extend wires to gimbal and camera.
That's pretty much what I did in the latter part of this video isn't it? Sure, the mounting arrangement could be tidier...
Hmm.... for speed skating though... you may find that a prolonged high-g turn like that will cause the accelerometer to sense the opposite direction of the turn as 'down', and the angle of the camera will drift to match it. Still, it would smooth out bumps and wobbles nicely.
I can live with that. I'm thinking of using a piece of graphite tubing to stick. If I get it build I will post photo and results.
There is a gap under the Imu for that strap. That's why it stops short.
+shaneman27 yeah that might work. I think you would still need some kind of cushioning and stickiness between the two surfaces though. For now the double-sided tape is doing a great job on its own.
Yes, I have cheap 2 axis gimbal and it never worked well, just collecting dust right now wit no controller. Anyways I liked to use that strap combined with a little squishy tacky pad gel type thing to keep it from sliding.
hi , what is the recommended voltage to use? can I use a 4s lipo fully charged which is 16.8 volts?thanx in advance
Hi I'm no professional but if you mean directly into the gimbal with no PDB I would suggest against it, however I could be mistaken. I would just be wary and do a little bit of research beforehand. Hope that helps! :)
hey how are ya. great 2 part video . I was wondering how you received the gimbel.. I.e with or with out the control board. I got on gear best and asked how it was shipped . and even though the board is in the pictures they replied it does not come with the control board like it seems to in your video. any insight on this? thanks for any response you may have
Your original question is "so i understand the gimbel comes with the frame and the brushless motors, but does it come with the board that's in the picture that controls the motors?"
Here is the answer from Our Customer service Team:
"
Hello mike,
It does not come with the board.
"
Please click here for additional details regarding the item.
We hope that the answer is helpful for you.
If you have any further questions, welcome to submit a ticket to our Support Center support.gearbest.com/.
Best Regards
Gearbest Customer Service Team
+Mike G I received it like I showed in the video 7:14 - all built ready to go.
+iforce2d thanks man, it's just odd that gear best would say it didn't come with it .. either way just making sure before I ordered one.thanks again!
how did you get that page on your computer that has all the setting. I don't see that when I plug my gimbal up to the computer?????
I just ordered one from the link provided here. Same link on other reviewers pages as well. I will let everyone know if it comes with the controller. I'm used to soldering and such, so no worries on my end. Just want the definitive answer. BTW, the $62.65 price ends shortly... Not sure what it's going to change to, but as of 4/29/16 at 8:35am eastern US, there is only 3 hours and 24mins left at that price... we'll see what happens
+Robert Rock thanks man, will be good to get that straightened out :)
+iforce2d Just arrived here in Coldwater, MI...... I does come with the controller and the second IMU.... Very nice looking pcb as well. I used to build boards for Physio Control Defibrillators, and we were a ISO 9002 facility.... Now to look over the paperwork and test it out
+Robert Rock Thanks Robert, good to know :)
Please i want to know what is the name of the cable that you pluged into the gimbal ?
I'm new to this gimbal stuff and plan on buying the Storm32. How do you control the gimbal? Does it come with it's own remote? Do you need a transmitter along with the gimbal to control it? I have a Hubsan H906A controller and would like to use it with the gimbal. It has two knobs on it that currently are not used but I have been told are for gimbal control. Need to find out if that's true and if so how to set it up. Any info is greatly appreciated for this newbee. Thanks
Such smooth ! Much nice!
I'm definitely considering getting one!
Question : Will you make videos about the different settings?
PS : I checked the price on the chinese ebay (taobao) and its pretty much the same (70$).
Oh, and apparently there are 2 versions on this website, one like yours (camera below the PCB), and one upside down (camera above the PCB).
+mr_os yes, I'll make another video where I change some settings, use the second IMU, and use the RC inputs to control the movement and switch modes.
Is it possible to remote control the camera up and down on this gimbal...so you can control it from, like your phoe when using it on a drone...?
Yes, but not from your phone. You'll need to use a channel on your receiver.
ua-cam.com/video/g7f8vRu4jrA/v-deo.html
nice one! Make a test video running up and down stairs in buildings
I managed to get a little further .when setting the imu for the camera and i select calibrate Nothing is happening like it does for the imu 2 Can you help?
I've just ordered one but the last on sale for $60, the last one will go very soon. (:
Alright so I finally received my gimbal today I ordered it after we last talked. got it out the box plugged it into a fresh battery and nothen... just red and green light flashing any ideas as to what may be wrong with it?
+Mike G you need to keep it very still for a while after startup, which takes about 30 sec or so. The gimbal sections need to be free to move (don't just have it sitting on the desk) and you also need to have a camera of appropriate weight attached or else it will not behave correctly. Although with no camera attached I would still expect to see it move.
As would I , I'll try with my gopro . man your awesome! Just adding the camera got it going. Thank you so much . I'm gonna try to get in the program tomorrow thanks for the help
Your video is great and informative! I have a question though - I use SJCAM M20, 54mm height dimension, so I have a height concern. What is the max. height clearance of that 3-axis gimbal in order to be able to perform pitch motion?
Could you please help me? I don't now how to download the gui.
Very intresting gimbal, i really consider buying one! :)
+muh1h1 looks like the 'normal' price is $82 today lol
+iforce2d yes, i have already looked it up the minute i saw the footage you got out of it :)
i already own ab2 axis gimbal, but i am not really happy with the Results it produces. always wanted to getba 3 axis one, but the prices of ~300$ really were rediculous...
i think i am going to get this one in summer, because at the Moment filming is not much fun here in germany anyway...
+iforce2d Hi ! What pin should i use to operate pitch from rc receiver ? Left or right row ?
Thanks !
+Юра Янев you can select which pin does what in the configuration app
***** Thanks !
Greetings from Ukraine !
are there major pros/cons between the Storm32 vs AlexMos vs BaseCam?
Any ideas of how to put 1/4 mount and connect my Sony AS300 action camera to that Storm32?
I want to buy my a first gimbal for a rc plane. Thanko for the good review.
Very nice video thanx.i have got one nice gimbal
Hello ! Can you please help me with a little problem. How do I connect the board to the PC. I just connect the usb cable on the computer and board ? And how do I get the Software that he is running? thank you very much
Look at the wiki I linked to in the description, it has all the info you need.
iforce2d So I kept looking but the only doubt now is. Do I have to have a Usb to TTl adpater to connect it ? Thank you very much again
No. I looked at all this stuff in another video: ua-cam.com/video/g7f8vRu4jrA/v-deo.html
Thank you
Great review, lots of info and v detailed, thanks
Hi can you give me basic dimensions of this gimbal aliminum parts?
Just received mine but straight away found a problem.. the yaw keeps jerking around and is unable to turn smoothly.. or even turn at all. Pitch and roll working fine. I've tried the calibration tool in the GUI and still doing it.. I tried rotating the yaw motor when off and the motor can turn smoothly.. nothing stuck or anything like that.. any idea what I might be doing wrongly?
Other than maybe a faulty sensor, no idea sorry.
Hello my friend, can I use this gmail on naza v2?
How can i
Regarding this gambling is not a good training .... Unfortunately.
Hi Chris, I'm looking to do some mods on this gimbal, do you think it is possible to flip the roll axis 180 degrees so the pitch motor is on the opposite side so the USB port of gopro isn't up against the pitch motor, also going to add a rctimer 2608 gimbal motor with slip ring for 360 degree yaw. can you see any issues with these 2 mods. My gimbal is on the slow boat from china and you know how long that can take to get to NZ.
The motor looks like a good fit size-wise. I can't tell from the photo how many wires are in the slip-ring but you will need at least ten just to run the gimbal, and another two if you want to view the video feed. You might also need to use the newer 'NT' firmware if the IMU lines get interference from being run through inside the motor. Depends how it was shipped but could be anywhere from ten days to three weeks.
Hi There, very nice review! can you please inform if this gimbal works well on 2s battery? thanks
Fantastic video!
"No appreciation for the finer things in life" hahaha
This comes without a control board for that price so check before you buy, you could probably add 25 to 30 dollars for an ok board then you will have to set it up, thought it was worth mentioning.
+Gogs ffs you bought this and it came without a control board?
+iforce2d yeah it comes without a controller, go check the site, I was going to buy one until I found out you have to buy a controller and build it it would be a great buy if it came the way yours did. check your own link and read the comments
+Gogs ffs I'll take that as a 'no'. There seem to be conflicting answers on the product page about this - normally I might suspect that the staff answering the questions have no clue what they are talking about, like Banggood staff. But one answer linking to the controller as a separate item seems to be quite clear about it. All I can say is, this is the item I was sent, and it arrived as I showed in the video.
+iforce2d I wasn't knocking your video just pointing out to others that it comes without a controller I am sometimes guilty of diving in and getting less than expected myself.
Probably cuz they sent it for you to test. So they set it up.
Mine had all the screws loose and fell apart out of the box. It also developed gimbal gitters!
Pretty awesome!!! it's a little bit hard to DIY.
Configurable with SimpleBGC GUI too?
Great video, thank you very much, very informative...
It is a great gimbal especially for the price.
I hope it will work with my Mac as well (maybe with paralell and win 10)
Man I love you with that cow!!!!!
Mine keeps flashing but not beep or movement.
Can you list the link of the wooden gimbal please I searched for 30 min so far
I made it.
+iforce2d did u make a UA-cam video?
Nope. It never worked that well really. For the price you can get a 3-axis gimbal for these days I would recommend just buying one. The performance difference is huge.
Nice, don't know if you still react on this video, but i am looking for a way to use the gimball upside down, so stranding on the dampers. To mount on my fpv plane, is there a fw i hqve to flash to get this done?.
Thanks in advance
ua-cam.com/video/g7f8vRu4jrA/v-deo.html
There is also an extremely detailed wiki, link in the description.
I want one!
Please can you try and help
Each time i connect to olliw' tool it says connected through the com port But nothing is getting recognised as if its not connected. I am new to this. Do i need to connect the battery for this programme to work
Try the RCGroups thread and the wiki for help (I linked to both in the video description).
Can you rig any camera on this thing? Does it have to be a certain weight?
It is designed to carry a GoPro or similar, so around 80-100g
I was trying to calibrate the Strom32 3 axis gimbal but this message came up "Opening port COM1 FAILED!". What do I do. Could someone please help.
COM1 is usually the wrong port... check your port. On my computer it shows up at COM28.
Does the gimbal have full 360deg rotation on the yaw/pan axis? (this would require a slipring through the centre of the yaw motor)
No - I doubt you would get that anywhere for under $100 :)
Even with no slip-ring, its interesting that it has hollow core motors, so fitting a slip-ring to the yaw motor to obtain full 360deg (limitless) yaw should be possible. The STorM32's regular camera IMU causes i2c issues if fed through a slip-ring though, but OlliW has designed this gimbal controller to work with uart-bus based devices called 'NT' - various devices are available performing different functions, one of these being an NT based camera IMU, and this removes the issues seen with the regular IMU. In a nutshell, it means you now have the possibility of getting a STorM32 camera IMU working through a slip-ring. Details about the NT bus are on OlliW's page. I am just waiting for my BGC and NT IMU to arrive in the post, then testing will commence!
Thanks for the video buddy, i brought this hoping to put my go pro 7 on it but the pitch control goes nuts. do you think it's something that can be corrected in software, or am i screwed?
The GoPro7 should be a good fit. Just make sure it's positioned so that all axes are balanced properly - that is, the camera should roughly stay in whatever position you put it, while the power is off. The idea is that the motors will need very little energy to turn themselves.
Hello i don't know about the motor connection its written motor0, 1,2 which one is for pich roll yaw connection
Just try them and see which is which.
can we mount that above or in upright position in our craft?
yes
my radio is at9 s and i use sbus.
Wonderful video.I have the same gimbal and camera(xiaomi yi) . So after all what is the best way to mount this camera on the gimbal? If you use the sticking foam you will not be able to take it out and back in again
Why not? Just pull it off :)
So every time you want to use the camera out of the gimbal you replace the foam ? hmmmm
I was thinking of scrap stickers ... (or whatever they call them)
hmmmm yes.
Have you tested this gimbal with camera weight like Session or runcam 3?
No, but the weight is similar.
Do you have a link to the action cam you used
That one was a Xiaomi Yi, but most GoPro sized cameras will be ok.
where can I get an application to the gimbal configurations?
Links in the description
Good night, good video, thank you very much. but I have a question: can this gimbal be connected to a 7.4 volt battery and would it work?
Yes.
hi did some filming on my gimbal with my f450 drome yar is fine but getting shuddering on the video
27:18. Daaaemn it's extremely responsive. :D
hi
i have a diy copter with a 3axis STORM32 gimbal
in one moment the software o323BGCTool reports "IMU not available" (camera sensor)
my question:
mai i replace the IMU with this one:
GY-521 MPU-6050 Module 3 Axis analog gyro sensors+ 3 Axis Accelerometer Module
I think so, but check the existing wiring very carefully first. It's unlikely that the IMU is damaged, more likely that the wiring is to blame.
thank u very mach!
u r right - a few minutes i wrote my question i realized that some of cabels didn't contact well
thank u for your time
Even in standard (non)config it's not too bad.
I bought this gimbal and I would like to put it on the front of my drone (so the electronic card on the side) but when initializing the nacelle does not arrive and hangs.
There is a 'setup wizard' or something like that in the configuration GUI that guides you through the steps to change the orientation, is that what you're trying?
iforce2d how?
hello, how to reset all the default parameters of the platform?
I think there is a way to do that in the config utility if you look around it. If not, then I don't know.
OK, thanks. I pressed accidentally on reset and so she does not react anymore
Thanks!
Hi, very good gimbal, thank, good for Yi, and good price for 3 axis Brushless. :)
+ONCLEFLY very true! You could get both this gimbal AND the camera for about $150 total!
Yes a good buy ! :)
Thanks for this review. Do you know what the maximum weight that can be attached? e.g wondering what would happen if I mounted 2 x Sony AS100V Actioncams.
That would never work. They would be way too heavy for a start. They are also likely to be the wrong type of weight distribution (being different to the gopro type shape), and since they are larger and longer in the front to back direction there is probably not enough space to have them rotating properly.
+iforce2d thanks for replying, and the extra information. Much appreciated.
Is it possible storm32 is inverted mode?
+FOFLVHXJ yes ua-cam.com/video/g7f8vRu4jrA/v-deo.html
Where comes the voice "Asta la vista" from at 24:55 ?
+Charlie90071 must have been one of those cows
+iforce2d sorry but I don't know what you mean with that :O
once its programmed you only need to connect power source right?
yeah
How long does yours take to startup? Seems like mine will take forever before it beeps.
About 20 seconds I guess. You have to keep it still.
very nice video,
how do you provide power to gimbal? which battery and cable i need to use?
+Sidh Jain connect it to a battery - you should be able to see the cable in the first five seconds of the video. As I showed in the specs at 10:18 it needs a 3S-4S battery.
+iforce2d Thanks for quick reply, do you think one of this battery will work? This is my first time working with gimbal and RC projects, so this might be a pretty basis question...!!
www.ebay.com/itm/New-Zippy-Compact-2200mAh-4S-14-8V-25C-35C-Lipo-Battery-Pack-RC-XT60-XT-60-USA-/151723430363?hash=item23536bd1db:g:qoAAAOSwDNdViW2f
+Sidh Jain the battery itself is fine, but the connector is different. You want the smaller red connector
+iforce2d The smaller connector is 4mm or Jst ?
+Sidh Jain yes JST
hi me were do you get the pc program from to took the gimbal up to the pc
Look at the links in the description
sorry mate 4get the check the links benn testing the gimbal the yar is nice but in my video iam getting shaking no jello would doing some gains help
There is a detailed tuning guide in the wiki somewhere, maybe that will help.
hi mate do you know what pin to use for thr pitch control
ua-cam.com/video/g7f8vRu4jrA/v-deo.html
+iforce2d that was fast will take a look
How many degrees is set the default roll limit?
Probably 90 degrees I would guess. But you can change it, so it doesn't really matter what the default is....
Thanks, asking this because i m choosing what gimbal is better for my drone. This is 3 axis and costs 70 dollars and the other is 2 axis and costs 40 on banggood. I m not sure, what d u think?
I can't tell what's best for you. But I have made almost two hours of video about this gimbal showing all the detail, that should be enough for you to decide....
Sorry another question, does it need a 2s or 3s battery so a 7.4 voltage or a 11.1 voltage? Thanx :)
yes. as I showed in the video....
hi bor i had just got this gimbal
but wiht i m using this it shaking very much sometime
i m not geting wht worrg i m doing
i m using 7.4v 8c battery
can u help me
n can i update firmware
did you put a gopro sized camera on it?
yes i m using sj5000+
well, then I don't know.
do u thing that i need battery of 11.1v??
probably not, but you could always try it
great video!)
What does it weigh?
9:02
Thank you. It's heavier than I would like. Nice review though.
looking for some one showing how to set it up this is way too long winded
The wiki is linked to in the description, there is a ton of info there.
i found the documentation i will do a strait forward UA-cam on setup without the gibberish thanks it works very well
Guy please help me my computer cant see to my gimbel :(((
August 29, 2021
Aug 29
2021
31:14 🤣😂
I have the almost identical Storm32 gimbal that I got from GoodLuckBuy and have been impressed with the performance considering the price! I have recently started using it on my Diatone Whitesheep with great results. I saw you also have a Whitesheep quad. Are you planning to use the gimbal on that? Here is some footage I took in fairly strong wind and it was rock solid: ua-cam.com/video/H6dhMLs-3qo/v-deo.html
+Brenton Daniels (JaxxGTA) very nice, is that with both IMUs in use? I have a S500 just built which I will be using to carry this, it has longer legs and some rails for camera mounting which is more convenient than the white sheep for this purpose.
+iforce2d Yes both IMU's. I spent a fair amount of time calibrating/pid tuning which sometimes makes things worse before getting better lol. The S500 would be more suited. I bought some longer legs for the whitesheep and with the gimbal it ends up being pretty heavy at about 1900g but on 10x5 props and 2216 900kv SunnySky's it flies fine.
+Brenton Daniels (JaxxGTA) I just noticed you have only 20A ESCs on that, do they get warm after carrying 1.9kg around? 1.9kg seems pretty heavy btw... My S500 is 712g, add 436g for a 3S 5600mAh battery, and 265g for the gimbal + camera should come to around 1420g. Hopefully 3S will be ok....
+iforce2d No not at all. The amp draw at hover is only 22A in total at about 45% throttle so that's 5.5A each using a 4S battery. I fly it very conservatively anyway while doing aerial video so hardly ever go full throttle. I leave that for my miniquads. Yours should be fine on 3S. I've tried 3S on mine but the hover throttle goes up to around 60% and it just has very little thrust for my heavyweight frame. The whitesheep does seem like a bit of a fatty.