How to tune ms41 ECUs (BMW m52/s52 engines): Ignition advance tuning
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Continuing the "How to tune ms41 ECUs" series. This time I'm showing how to tune the ignition advance by using the knock adaptation tables. To be able to read the knock adaptations, you need to setup RomRaider Logger. See my previous video about that: • How to tune ms41 ECUs ...
Big credits to the guys that have made all this ms41-tuning possible: Abhishek Shinde, Alec, Kim, Kyle, and Dale. If you find this information useful, considre dontaing to the ms41 project: www.paypal.me/A... and to the RomRaider folks: www.paypal.com...
If you want to help making of these videos, you can donate to this channel through PayPal: paypal.me/pazi88
New flash tool for ms41: sites.google.c...
The OBDII cable I'm using available at Ebay: tinyurl.com/yb...
The OBDII to round bmw connector adapter available at Ebay: tinyurl.com/yb...
RomRaider and RomRaider logger download link: www.romraider.c...
RR logger official definitions: www.romraider.c...
ms41 wiki: sites.google.c...
Great job, I think this is one of the only straight forward video on youtube of showing how to map out the ignition map on the street. I know it is not ideal like a dyno but this method should be able to get you a safe street map. Thank you! I will use this technique with microsquirt and megalogviewer.
yeah it will work in megasquirt also. But you will need to have working knock detection in that. I have no experience how well knock detection works in ms. For ms3 there seems to even separate knock detection pcb.
I was JUST searching UA-cam for this info last night, and then this morning, you upload it to my sub list. Thank you so much.
Again, thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. 328i is finally free of it's huuuuge amounts of rust, soon I will start logging, tuning, swapping M50 manifold in and so on. Your videos are extremely helpful for that, I love 'em.
Greetings from Germany!
YOU ARE AMAZING !!!
This is fantastic, I plan to run though this exercise on my US M3.
Thank you for all you videos! Lots of information and clear explanations.
Great job!!! It would be nice to do a vid where you explain what each one of the maps does
Thanks. if you open the map properties in RomRaider, there is quite good explanation what each map does. I will try to show what you can do with those maps to make your car better instead of just explaining the maps.
Haha I asked for an educational video on Instagram yesterday! Thanks
Awesome videos dude! Been watching and learning alot from yo. Do a lot of tnes now myself and been experimenting with different things.
Спасибо вам большое и низкий вам поклон - очень интересна мне тема чиптюнинга, сам изучаю. Ваши ролики очень полезны!
Im try to do this with MS42.....how do i get the Knock Adaption Learned Values Table ? Wich ROMRIDER version should i use? Thank you
Hello Pazi! Thank you for the videos! Do you recommend me to check for the LTV after a short drive (15 mins) driving at low rpms and doing some WOT pulls? Is it valid? Also, its necessary to record a log before check the LTV or can i do it without recording? Thank you!!😊
Not really. LTVs are something to check after longer drive periods to see if the tune is ok.
@@pazi88 Nice! Thank you! Also, i have the option at romraider logger to record the Knock adaptation table 1 values. I did a 2-3-4-5 gear pull and its always to 0... Does it mean i have 0 knock? I was thinking if this lecture its maybe not working and it just doesnt record nothing. What do you think? My 2.8 its suposed to be stock
Thanks so much for your videos, they are excellent! Can this method be used to tune a camshaft swap? Also can you make a video about tuning on a bigger MAF?
TxTex777 Yes you can tune for different camshaft in tbe way I showed in this video. Also remember to tune the vanos lile I showed in another one. I will make bigger maf video in some point.
Got it. Thanks again!
Hi!!!Ms42 does not open tables as in the video. How to activate tables to see the ignition log?
I have a M52B25 an in the Romraider i have a second Ignition Table. Which purpose does it have ?
Hello Man, i am long time fan of yours, but i got a question.., how did you get romraider logger running ? i got Testo, Inpa, Romraider editor running but i am not able to log through romraider logger, i downloaded the newest definition file and my ecu ms41.0 1429861 should be included ?? plz answer my man you got great videos
greetings from germany
Kiitos paljon!
Yksi kysymys, mainitset, että jos auto on varastossa, MAF: llä on jotain vikaa. Minulla on pakojärjestelmä ja kylmä ilmanotto, olisiko hyvä asettaa sytytysajoitus lähelle nolla-arvoa tai se voi olla polttoainetyypin tai muun syyn takia, että auto sopeutuu niin paljon
Tein parhaiten yrittää käyttää Google-kääntämistä
Please post using English. The Finnish translation is unreadable.
hahaha I tried at least...
You mention that there would be something wrong with the MAF if the stock car is making too many adaptations. I have an m3 with CAI and full exhaust and I have been able to log and was going to edit ignition but I am concerned because of your comment. Thanks for the information
itse en saa tuota romraiderin loggeria pelaamaan ollenkaan. valittaa että tarvitsee 32 bittisen Java run time enviromentin mutta senkin olen jo useampaan otteeseen ladannut vaan ei herää
Great videos man!
hey @pazi88 your videos have helped me so much with tuning my car. when opening romraider logger it just comes up with "intializing logger" and never loads? Any idea on how to fix that? cheers
Umm, you have selected DS2 logging option? Also the newer RR versions for some reason think quite long time before starting to log.
Great again! Can you put english subtitle?
Garage Engin'ering Thanks! There is. Doesn't it work?
Why does your knock adaptation maps go to 501?
My knock adaptation x values are 131;251;360;398 , I wanted to add more timing to the top end, but i cant see those values
I found that in romraider you can change the x axis for knock maps but is it a good idea to change it?
Great video, as always!
The axis depends on your engine displacement
@@pazi88 ok so i wont touch it for now, as it is b25.
but in the future, if i go for example b30 stroker, is it a thing i can change without much worrying, or does it mess something else up after changing?
I'm a bit of a noob, so this might be a stupid question, but does advancing the ignition also help with fuel economy?
Not really. The stock maps are really optimized for better fuel economy from factory.
Hyvä video, eipä tästä oikein muuta moitittavaa keksi kuin että eikös tuossa otsikossa ole pieni kirjoitusvirhe? (säätää)
TboHammu No niin näköjään on :D Pitää korjata.
I got no definition file for ms41 ms43
Hey Pazi !! Been following you for a while and I wanted to say thank you for sharing your knowledge, I really enjoy your videos.
I have a question for you. For a turbo application on 93 octane, would you use the same Method to tune ? Wouldn't waiting to hear knock at say 15 or 18 psi (with .140 mls) be dangerous for the engine (bending a rod or something ?)
Maude Roy Thanks! Yeah same method will work fine. Just start from bottom up with the ignition advance. Ecu will catch signs of knocking before anything destructive happens
pazi88 thanks for the info and the very quick reply !! Have a good day ! (Might be night for you haha :)
Please post a video explain how to tune fuel if possible.
I haven't got time to do video about it, but here I have this post on RomRaider forum: www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=13969
Really helpful! I guess you have to tune fuel before you can tune spark? I bought an AFR gauge some time ago, but I am still waiting for it. Whats the proper way to tune fuel? The adaption tables are not precise enough for this. Disable closed loop and wot mode and tune for 14.7 with the base map? Then enable wot from 0% TPS and tune for 12.5?
I installed the M50 manifold and tuned the vanos, its pulling a lot smoother before 5000 U/Min already :)
Yes it's good to have fuel tuned first. Are you running stock injectors? In that case you don't need to touch the base fuel map. Just play around with the WOT enrichment. You can just put there what AFR you want to run: ecu.wiki/index.php/Siemens_MS41
But if you don't have stock injectors, here is some methods to tune those more accurately than just rely on adaptations: www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=13969&sid=a4dff09eacc001d0a914259d3916cd4c
Thank you, I will try that!
Very nice 👍👍
how'd u make ur OBD port ? DId u just use a common adapter and welded it to the box cables in the engine bay or how did u done this ?
Me as a german cant find any informations about this. Everyone in germany here says its NOT working but u did it to weork perfectly. I hopeu can help me out and i can shor my german people that they are all dump ^^
Great and understandable videos for me as a german ( im using subtitle and have really no problem understanding anything )
Hel pster I just wired the +12v, GND and K-line from the EWS wires to obd2 port. It works same as the round port in the engine bay (when the cap is off from there).
Thank you very much ! will to this soon
How big injectors are u recommending?
I would be perfect to do a video about fuel tuning and one for exhaust poping :-)
Marvin Holzwarth Both will come later ;)
I liked you edited definition file.
Can you share?
tkss
Are you flashing from the inside of your car? Or only loggig at this OBD2 port in glove box and flashing from 20 pin OBD1 in engine compartment?
Yeah. But I have bit modified system. The car doesn't have obd2 port inside from factory. I have wired in one directly. I can flash from inside just by having the 20pin socket plugged inside engine compartment that has the flashing pins bridged.
@@pazi88 Yeah, i've heard you mentioned that it isnt factory in another video. Did you get all cabels needed from those connection bridges under/ behind glovebox or did you wire from 20 pin socket? I think you have to connect TXD, RXD, PGSP (progr. wire), 30 and 31 right?
How many degrees do you start advance for a 328i stock, only with exhaust? And with m50 manifold, need more advance or only more fuel?
For 95ron fuel
I start with couple of degrees on higher loads and see how that affects. More fuel is not needed. m52 runs pretty rich as stock.
Great video thanks! Do you know why the load in the knock table only goes up to 501? What about knock at higher loads 600-700 wide open throttle?
Blake Minson The engine barely hits 600 load as stock so that's why the stock load axis is as it is.
pazi88 that makes sense, thank you. My s52 has schricks, 24lb injectors and 803 maf. I can still read “current knock” through RR logger in higher loads 600-700. Would that be enough?
pazi88 ok thank you for taking the time to respond and make these videos! Very informative 👍🏻
Blake Minson No problem and thanks!
can my spark plug choice affect knock?
I have knock in my mid RPM range (between 2800 and 4200) range when under boost.
is it possible that (given I have a good tune) a lower heat range spark plug will have a positive effect on my knock?
Not really. Too hot plugs can cause pre-ignition, but it's not show in knock adaptations. It only destroys the engine :D
Hey, ive been watching your videos for a bit and i love them! thanks for all your knowledge and support you are sharing. would you happen to know the location for usdm ms41 definitions? ive been to the forums and cant find any download links for it. logger wont work with the EN ms41. so if you could be so kind as to point me to the usdm ms41 that would be great. please and thank you in advance!
Tu Ngo What is your ecu id/part number. The logger definition should work fine with us ecus also.
siemens 5wk9 0353 index 07 dme ms41.1 [1 430 144]
when i open logger it just keeps saying "failed to send init, make sure cable is connected and ignition is on" everything is connected, i can read, flash, all that, but logger wont work, a good friend of mine said its because i need the us definitons. been looking for weeks now, cant find em
Tu Ngo The definition works for both us and euro ecus. Do you see ecu id in the bottom? If not, then you have connection problem. Have you changed to ds2 protocol and have you selected correct com port?
pazi88 omg now i feel dumb, how do i switch to ds2 protocol? and the com port always automatically goes to com 3
Hello pazi. I have watched some of your videos and i also found out that you also know how to tune bmw e46 ms42. can you give me some help with this? i have flashed my dme and extracted a 32kb file from my dme ( 0110CA) . i have read in some forums that you have some extra files that i have to insert in tuner pro or rom raider. please i just want to raise the rev limiter and remove post catalytic o2 sensors.
Hi! I have made RomRaider definitions for ms42 to support CA,C6 and AD versions. Get the latest one v0.34 from here: www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12799&start=135
pazi88 Thanks for the reply...in the mean time I have done my tune and flashed it in my DME. I spoke with you on romraider forum, my profile name is VladPC
Ah ok. I didn't connect the names :D
i have a question whats a good bmw engine for budget turbo m50 or m52 ??
Which one you can get cheaper :D
Hi Pazi your videos are awesome! Watched them all! Ive recently swapped a M52TUB28 into my e39. Currently im running it on LPG so i want to play around with the ignition timing map. Is there a way to log my MS42 (MS420DS0) using RR and get access to the LTV, specifically the knock adaptation map, just like you show in the video for the MS41? If yes, what protocol in RR Logger shall i use and what definition file (logger_v336?). So far i can't connect with my ecu. I would really appreciate your help!!:)
Yes you can tune the ms42 same way as ms41. The ecu definitions are here: www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12799&start=165 And the v336 logger file will work. Just remember to use ds2 protocol in logger and choose correct com port.
Ok thaks! Gonna try that today!
Thanks again but i can't get this to work somehow. If I choose the DS2 protocol in logger and try to load any logger definition file from the v336 files i end up with an empty "parameters" window in logger. However if i choose any other communications protocol (like lets say OBDII) the parameters show up. There, I can see that the v336 definition files don't have any MS42 specific (correct me if im wrong) parameters like Vanos angle for instance. However I can see in your video that you have those parameters in your list. What am I doing wrong?
captinJerk It will show the parameters once it get's the ecu id from ecu. For that you need to have working obd2-usb(serial) adapter and chosen correct com port.
Ok finally got it to work&connect to my ecu. Don't know what was wrong actually. Also i was starting the logger separately, not via the editor that was another mistake. Thanks for your help and keep those great videos coming. They are really educational!
Ostin pitkän harkinnan jälkeen e39 540:sen BMW ajettu 135 tkm mitenkäs tämän muuttaisi viina moottoriksi?
Savu Muikku Suuttimet, pumppu, letkut mahollisesti, bensakartt ja ennakot ainaki alkuun
Hi, cand you help.me make an obd1 adapter for my e36 ?I can't find your video (I think) were you have de electrical wires ( pin from ews)...to connect the obd1 adapter under the dash bord
No video about that. It's just +12v, gnd and k-line wired to obd2 connector from ews connector that is located behind glove box. Big yellow connector.
@@pazi88 and with this setup, can i make a diagnose under the glove box...to not use te obd 1 under the hood ?
thank you for sharingI'm having trouble with my romraider account activation and I need the ms41 ecu definitions is there anyway you can email me the XML or direct download link, any one can help please
Check your spam email folder. The link is probably there. I'm not allowed to share xml files directly.
Hello,
I've got the problem with MS41 flash tool, the creator IS not anymore with us. IS IT possible to send mě a copy? Tank you.
keep your eyes peeled on the forum, a replacement is in the works.
www.ms4x.net/index.php?title=Siemens_MS43#Flashing_Software
Can you tune also ms42? Do you have any program to tune ms42?
Yes. You can use RomRaider like for ms41. Here is some basic info: ms43wiki.com/index.php/MS42 For ms42 there is ecu definitions for all major sw versions, so it's unlikely that you need to convert the sw version using garage flasher. For easier flashing there is mss5x flashtool. Links here: www.ms4x.net/index.php?title=Siemens_MS43#Flashing_Software
can you make simple 2 step launch control/ignition cut(for pops and bangs) m52b28
No. But there is custom code coming that allows launch control with ignition cut.
@@pazi88 where can i get it?
@@Haleskinn nowhere yet. But register to RomRaider forum and keep an eye the ms41 section. You also will need the quick flash software to be able to flash in the custom code.
@@pazi88 already on the forums, just thought you might know how to do it easier, or you could make a video of how to program fuel cut on rev limiter or something
Can you make a video on how to disable ews ii from the dme?
It's so easy that no need for separate video. Just check the properties for byte 8 in RomRaider
pazi88 I appreciate it. I'm barely going to buy the needed tools to do this I was given a 1998 323i coupe that had the dme replaced now it doesn't start.
Is there any place where I can email you?
pazi88@gmail.com
What i confused about is the fact, that at 3600 - 4100 and full load (700) the timing table is very retard and is like halved. This is really a "break" in the pattern or an indent in 3D map. Can someone explain this?
The engine is just sensitive to knock there, so that's why.
puristuspaineeseen vaikuttaa myös imunokan ajoitus. puristuspaine alkaa muodostuu vasta ku imuventtiili menee kiinni.
jaketech racingteam Juu kyllä tämä tiedossa. En vain halunnut liikaa sotkea asiaa yhteen videoon, että ei mene sekavaksi :D
juu :D
hello .kann ich auch bmw ms.43 edit mit rom raider?mfg piotr
yes you can: ms43wiki.com/index.php/Main_Page And www.romraider.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=43
Hi pazi88
Can you tune the M50B25 ecu? we want to put turbo with 0.9Bar is it posible?
Boost V8 chevy No I can't but I know it's possible. You have to burn new chip every time you make a change. Also the tuning is more like guesses, because the ecu definitions are not nearly as good as for ms41. I would not recommend. Just swap to ms41 if you can find sensors, wiring abd ecu for cheap. Or go aftermarket.
Hi pazi88 I am new in BMW. I saw MS41 ecu online. and i see Map sensors. I have to buy full harness and ecu with crank temp map airflow sensors?
Most of you guys are running wich type of Differential size? 168mm or 188 or 210mm? 346 ratio and up? or lower ratio like 315??
Yes full harness and sensors needed for ms41. You can only reuse tps sensor and intake temp sensor.
188 mm diff. 168 is quite weak. We have ratios from 3.15 to 2.65. Shorter ones are way too short for turbo use.
hi from Bulgaria :)
Can you make a video with "how to tune Ms2Extra on (NA)M42b18(318is)" :) tutorials
Unfortunately I don't have m42 in any car..
pazi88 it's time to buy a car with m42 haha :)
No I Don't like the sound of 4 bangers :D straight six is just pure sex.
Yes for me too but i drive in BMW CUP(BG) in small class to 2000cc and i need to upgrade car :) i have this ecu MS2extra ...but the problem is tune ... setup the ecu.
Maybe have the same settings with six cylinders ?
Yeah the settings are pretty much the same as in this video: ua-cam.com/video/zlyywPM0TCM/v-deo.html
But of course you need to use 4 cyl instead of 6 cyl. And in here is correct trigger settings with for sequential fuel/spark: i.imgur.com/Dy7YVPK.jpg For wasted spark etc. you can use single wheel with missing tooth.
Hi [=
WOW! I really love what you did there!
Any chance you can send me a copy of the final ignition tables (Excel, pic..)? I have my e34 fitted with the m52b28, and it's OBD1 (413 Bosch DME), so I cannot do the cool knock optimization thing \=
Thank you :))
Basically you could. But as far as I know there isn't tools to see knock tables and also you can't flash those ECU's. You need to burn new chip every time you do changes.
And the maps can be found from this bin file: drive.google.com/open?id=0B2EFGtMvFkj-ZFN5VWplUE9SNEU
Thanks!
That's actually exactly what I did, I have a EPROM programmer so I'm making my own chips.
But I do like to have a proper reference for the ignition tables, and what you achieved by analyzing the Knocks is great!
I believe the degrees values are basically the same, because the engines are same and the ignition timings are not (less..) related to the control module, but more to the mechanics itself (stroke length and cams deg.).
I'll try to open that .bin file and extracted tables out, will let you know if it works or if I blow up the engine 😂
ok. In that case it should work fine. use Romraider to open that bin file.
So far so good [= feels like the car pulls stronger and revs quicker!
Thank you!
First! Great video again!
Turbotatteko muillekkii bemmei
Oishan se mielenkiintosta tehdä muidenkin autoja. Mutta tässä elämäntilanteessa ei kyllä ole ylimäärästä aikaa tehdä muiden autoja. kun ei kerkiä omiakaan väsään niin paljoa kun haluaisi :D
No sanotaanko näin että jos moottorin sielunelämä ja säätäminen on uus asia, niin kyllä siinä äkkiä pari moottoria hajottaa, ennekuin pääsee hommasta jyvälle :D Et jos on vain halu saada autoon turbo ja päästä ajeleen, niin kyllä se kannattaa jollekkin joka tietää viedä säätöön. Mut jos haluaa mielenkiinnosta oppia säätämään, niin ei muuta kuin kokeileen.
pazi88 juu
Awesome Vid :) thanks a lot for all informations, I just have a question about e85 tune, why we can't use knock adaptation ? Thanks in advance
e85 doesn't knock so that's why. (at least in stock engine or even in mildly boosted)
Okay :o !!! , many many thanks :)))
i luv your channel man!
081588101 Thanks a lot!