@@smokeyjoseph1790 pretty much only sneasler got banned because of it tho... Unless you count Bax Not needing to run EQ on Certain sets but like you already would run EQ anyways...
@@smokeyjoseph1790 Tbf, nat dex is a very different tier compared to SVOU, especially in terms of hazard management. There are both very few viable spinners and an insane abundance of high and low tier defoggers in ND, making a reliance on defog more common and therefore making Gholdengo much more oppressive in blocking it. In SVOU, defog and spin are both very limited in users, with two good spinners (Tusk and Exca) and one (far from top tier) defogger. This means you’re more likely to use a spinner than a defogger for removal, making Gholdengo’s defog blocking a non factor for a significant chunk of the games it participates in. On top of that, ND’s power level means a lot of threats to Ghold that normally are used often in SVOU are either underwhelming like Ting Lu, Weavile and Meowscarada or completely off the wall broken like Dragapult and Kingambit.
worth noting corviknight isn't just restricted because of the defog block, its a very defensive pokemon in a offensive metagame with threats it hates like raging bolt, burning bulwark, skeledirge, volcarona etc. being the ONLY defogger is not going to solve anything since it will be increase usage of these pokemon to support hazard based teams
as an ubers player, the fact the CONKELDURR has defog but HO-OH DOESNT is just ;-; ubers has been taken over by ho-oh gliscor fat balance and no defoggers is one of the main reasons
@@zowwycafeFunny thing in ND Ubers related to hazard removal: So on web teams, you know how you usually sacrifice a mon for webs at the start of the match. But a lot of sticky web teams also wanted Hazard removal because if the enemy lead set up Rocks and Spikes you would have a hard time setting up your sweepers, like Ekiller Arceus or Dragon dance Ultra Necrozma. So to get hazard removal you would either use one of the many good defoggers in the teir, like Yveltal, Ho-oh or Giratina-O, but you would lose the sticky webs you sacrificed a Pokemon for and lose much of the point of Webs as a team style. If you didn't want to use a defogger, you could use a rapid spinner to keep webs and remove the enemy hazards at the same time. The only problem with that was most of the spinners were really frail and unreliable or did rarely use Rapid spin to begin with. The 3 options you had for the longest time were Pheromosa, who while a scary offensive threat was a unreliable spinner as it couldn't switch in to anything, Regielikie, who was even WORSE than pheromosa due to not having any useful resistances, and the only other option for spinning was Mega Blastoise which is only Ubers because of Shell smash and isn't even good in Ubers anyways. Until DLC2, Terapagos releases and it can actually rapid spin well while actually being a good Pokemon in it's own right. So after basically a entire year Sticky Web teams FINALLY had hazard removal that was good.
I agree that stealth rock has far too much distribution. It should be on almost every rock type pokemon, and then very rare on other typings. Stealth rock is amazing. Being a rock type is not, so it would help balance out the move. I disagree with your defog reasoning. Not very many defog users are OU right now specifically because their utility is not very helpful. But that's only because of Gholdengo. If you remove Gholdengo, these pokes suddenly have a desired utility.
Is this really true? I would like to hear what kind of lower tier pokemon could reliably deal with the common hazard teams in OU right now in your opinion. from what I can see almost all of them thud against the likes of gliscor, skarmory, ting-lu, clodsire etc who are setting up the hazards they have to combat against.
low tier defoggers CANNOT keep up with gen 9 ou. This is the single strongest meta ever. Everything gets nukes by Bolt, Gouging, Rain, Gambit, Val, etc
I don’t think many if any lower tier defog users would rise up to OU if Ghold gets banned. Gen 9 OU is just to strong of a meta plus most lower tier defoggers can already deal with Ghold. Conk has knock off, Weezi g-G has Neutrilizing gas and madibuzz also had knock off so I don’t think Ghold’s ban will change much
Gholdengo has been scaped goated for gen 9 problems for too long. Its about time we get the record straight when it comes to this issue. Gholdengo isn't what made hazzard stack stronger than it usually is this generation. Defog being gone as a tm is the real culprit. I point to natdex tiers as an example where hazzard stacking past a simple layer of stealth rocks rarely occurs because all the defensive flying types that you were already using anyways have defog in the kits. Also knock off being the freest click ever in singles is also a large culprit as to why hazzard stack cores fee l like they can always force value over time in gen 9.
@SJtheMFZB thst was just the natdex council wanting to do their own thing and be different. Gholdengo is arguably weaker in that format than base OU. More threatening competition, and it's not like gholdengo gets that much out of z moves, in comparison to any other OU pokemon that slaps on a tech z move option.
it’s been the most metagame warping pokemon this whole generation and that’s not a bad thing in and of itself. landorus was a healthy meta-defining pokemon for gens 5-8, but Joesen Ghoulden Levitt is NOT HEALTHY FOR GEN 9 OU. the typing is amazing and it’s stabs have perfect neutral coverage (no type resists both). it has coverage options for every weakness (imagine aegislash with fairy, fighting or electric coverage). it can use more than 3 tera types viably. oh yea it has nasty plot and is fast enough to outspeed defensive pokemon. it has reliable recovery and 3 immunities.. and 8 resistances. it can run literally ANY combination of sets and items. it’s immune to some of THE MOST common moves: taunt, toxic, thunder wave, encore and trick. oh yea and it BLOCKS SPIN AND FOG! it defines the ENTIRE hazard game by being the single best removal option EVER in the history of pokemon, you know the game where hazards have defined every generation (except first).
Did you ignore the entire video or do you just like to yap? Even if we ignore your entire segment on the hazard portion. Ghold is still checked by many defensive mons in the tier like Clod and Ting only beating Ting if you're dumb enough to let your opponent nasty plot like three times for free even if you do get two plots on Ting you still have to either drop your stats with Make it rain (( +4 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 373-439 (72.5 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery )) you still either have to Tera or use focus miss to guarantee the KO. And if you're balloon into Clod and thr Clod can't touch you then the most you do is force a sack then they switch into something like roaring moon to force tera or Shadowball Val to revenge or double back into clod after you tera to KO. Your other arguments about it running multiple tera types well also doesn't stand because many Pokemon also do this Roaring Moon goes Flying or sometimes Dark to boost it's stab. In the past week alone I've run into tera fairy, electric, and ghost Val. KINGAMBIT EXISTS!!! Ghold having many resistances also doesn't mean anything as fellow steel type Heatran had 9 resistances and if you run flame body two immunities and it's lower tier this gen. Corv also has a boat load of imminities...again Kingambit exists. Sharing two immunities and some resistances....Ghold is not a problem there is no reason to ban it because Banning it does nothing for the tier besides making life easier for no brain HO spammers.
@@Astraision gholdengo used psyshock, it’s super effective, Clod gets 2hko. gholdengo is at +4, Ting Lu eats right? tera fairy gleam bye bye. notice how even in your arguments, you need pokemon to sack, need to force the tera, and/or need to use your booster mon JUST to force it out. read your comment again and tell me that the counterplay you suggest seems healthy and non-oppressive. it just feels like you’re proving my point even further. you also mentioned the only 2 defensive pokemon that hard check it in the entire tier without tera-ing.
Gholdengo is a fine presence. One of our few Steel types with recovery and has a lot of nice qualities in the builder. I'm a big fan of Balloon Gholdengo for the Kyurem MU. Helps out a ton with other Pokemon like Iron Valiant, Hatterene, etc.
Should hazard stack teams have the one man "nope" button? There are plenty of ways to protect hazards, other ghosts can block rapid spin, and there are some nasty pokemon who can threaten a reverse sweep with defiant into a defog, The thing about golden boy is that he is a one pokemon answer to every form of hazard removal, and can do a lot of work on his own as an offensive threat outright. This means you can make the other 5 mons on your team do hazards while also not having to focus every mon on just hazards, they can take one hazard each and bring other utility to the field at the same time. If you need 2, or even three pokemon to protect hazards from various threats, and those pokemon are not themselves well suited to stacking hazards, then you force the remaining hazard setters to either focus on hazards at the expense of flexibility, or they take less hazards. 5 setters + gold gives a lot of leeway compared to 4 setters and 2 defenders. And teams where you have one or two hazard stackers who each carry 3 hazard setting moves is a inherently fragile team style where if you can get rid of the one or two setters, who are also very inflexible, then you can clear the way and win. Gold is a win condition, but is also a very flexible, unpredictable, and difficult mon to deal with, with a lot of very good defensive qualities, and solid offense, with reliable access to recovery. If gold was fragile, had a limited moveset, or limited offensive potential any one of those would make relying on it to make or break your team would be bad. Gen 2 snorlax comes to mind as a comparable example of a pokemon that is your win condition, but can be very difficult to actually deal with and if caught off guard can threaten a reversal at any time.
Especially since we got a new form of hazard removal in Mortal Spin, that isn't blocked by ghost types, but instead by steel types, using Glimorra as a Spinner has value because of that in a Gholdengoless meta.
well, there's also the tidbit that it's impossible to "block" defog with any pokemon other than goldengo unless you happen to have a pokemon with taunt on the field
Its worth noting that other pokemon can reliably spin block just like gholdengo, it just also happens to be the best ghost type in the tier that fits on the most structures thanks to having great offensive and defensive sets, being immune to thunder wave, toxic and will-o-wisp is incredibly valuable and gholdengo isn't being used solely for its role as a hazard removal blocker. if gholdengo was such a "nope" button as you call it, running rapid spin on tusk would be a waste. Its because gholdengo can't switch into it without it being a prediction that rapid spin is so reliable on tusk. Gholdengo doesn't even beat all defoggers as talonflame is being used on stall to combat it, the only reason people are calling for this ban is because the only good defogger, corviknight, can't do anything to gholdengo and people extrapolate that means gholdengo is single-handedly stopping any mon that learns defog from being any good.
Good vid, and I agree that Ghold shouldn't be banned. Ghold does make hazard stack easier BUT the main issue is the lack of removal in comparison to how many mons can run hazards. There is only 1 relevant defogger, and imo Corv is pretty bad rn and Great Tusk is the main spinner with Treads and Drill behind it. Was really hoping defog would be distributed more with the dlc (giving it back to Torn-T and Lando) but alas that wasn't the case.
This is one of the LMAOs of watching Gen 9 OU. Defog being completely absent from the tier is really not a meme. The definitive answer is to have Tusk in when Gholds is not and won't switch in. Otherwise, it's Boots all day and 60-75% switch-ins.
Claiming that Corviknight is the only good Defog user is a little disingenuous. Even though Neutralizing Gas *does* disable Good as Gold, Weezing-Galar still matches up terribly into Gholdengo by typing, and might rise to OU in its absence, especially given its utility against the rest of the metagame that would be further boosted by consistent access to Defog.
Even without Ghold, it doesn’t match up terribly well into OU. It’s great against physical attackers, but just completely terrible into any good special attacker. Archaludon, Raging Bolt, Primarina, Kyurem, Pult, etc. Most of them are weak to fairy but will almost never take fatal damage from its fairy move even with prior chip. It’s also setup bait for gouging Fire, unless you wanna risk the game fishing for confusion with a move that isn’t even guaranteed to land. It was much better into the meta overall back in DLC1 when grassy terrain offense and Ghold-Scor hazard stack ruled the meta, both of which it had an okay match up into. Right now with sun offense, rain offense and Kyurem balance being more on the common side it’s much, much harder to use.
Weezing hasn't gained any significant tools since gen 8 and uses mostly the same set, and it wasn't that great in those tiers either. It doesn't even reliably beat most of gen 9's common hazard setters like deo-s, glimmora, gliscor etc. so its unlikely it would be able to keep off hazards well even if defog couldn't be blocked
Ive suggested this before, but all Gamefreak has to do to balance it out, is remove Defog's stupid and unnecesary evasion decrease effect, and make it so it only affects the field.
Dont agree. Good as ghold is not just a defog denier, it allows gholdengo to pretty much beat any of its checks with the right set. Mandibuzz would be a much more viable mon if not for ghold (ghold sets up on mandi). If tera was banned ghold is just anoying but not broken, but that not being the case, gholdengo is just the right tera away to win any game by itself
this applies to half of OU with tera, ghold isn't really the worst abuser compared to stuff like kingambit. Mandibuzz thuds against a ton of pokemon in OU that can set up for free against it when it can't fit all the moves it would need. given defog and roost are on it, it has to choose between foul play knock off and brave bird, and if it gives up any of those certain mons in OU just set up on it for free. Great tusk and valiant LOVE it if its missing brave bird, iron boulder loves if it misses foul play, ting-lu walls it if it doesn't have knock off, just to give a few examples. Mandibuzz is extremely passive for the OU metagame and doesn't have the obcene bulk, hazard or setup potential that the others in OU right now do like dondozo, clodsire and gliscor, in order to stand its ground and snowball the offense ridden tier.
I personally like foul play/roost/defog/toxic mandi, where toxic works better than those examples than either bb or knock off. Mandibuzz would be a reliable counter to tusk, ting lu, dragapult, excadrill, gouging fire, iron threads, samurott-h, lando-t, and the list goes on, but if there is a gholdengo on the opponent's team, it either needs uturn to keep mommentum, or is just a free turn for the opponent (or u double, which isnt reliable in a long term imo)
@@lycamobile00 gold isn't your problem with that set tho, archaludon is way more of a problem than ghold is. With that set you also lose to gliscor and are total food to glimmora teams. You're also hard walled by clodsire. And then notice how all of these are hazard setters you'd need your defogger to not lose to
Let's be real, Good As Gold shouldn't be immune to Defog. Defog shouldn't be a "status" condition in the first plays, man. I think just this little change will do Gholdengo's hazars control much more manageable
since we don't have a defogger and sleep was banned, gholdengo is pretically a pokemon without ability which can be fucked up if it doesn't have its baloon so yeah ... now it is not broken
Good video for sure, but I have just one question for you. If you don't think Gholdengo's neither broken nor the problem, then what is? Lack of Hazard removal? Most likely, but that's not getting fixed anytime soon so we're stuck with it. The pokemon that get hazards? I suppose, but what do we do then? Ban Spikes? One wouldn't even be able to finish that thought before you'd be laughed out of the discussion. Tell me what *is* the problem so we can get some discussion on that instead, or at least gesture in a diferent direction. What can be banned in Ghold's place to limit hazard issues? Assuming that'll be an idea we can entertain in the first place
The problem imo: too many viable hazard setters and too little removal. There is only 1 viable defogger, but it's tough to fit on every team even if ghold was banned. All of the rapid spinners are quite susceptible to spikes stack themselves and are also not very durable, which means the removal options don't want to switch in on spikes (but they need to to remove them of course). Combine that with the fact that quite some spike setters (gliscor, samurott h for example) can easily beat the spinners, it becomes difficult to keep hazards of the field. This is not even mentioning spin blockers. Cinderace can court change, but something like gliscor really doesn't mind setting up again. Tldr, too little viable hazard removers that are not actually good at removing hazards
Ok but can we agree Tera and Kingambit need to go? In my eyes one is just an unhealthy 50/50 and the other is a core reason for so many Pokémon needing bans in the first place.
I already know I'm gonna catch a lot of heat for this one 😤
It was banned in nat dex and now a lot of the tier had to be banned
@@smokeyjoseph1790 pretty much only sneasler got banned because of it tho...
Unless you count Bax Not needing to run EQ on Certain sets but like you already would run EQ anyways...
@@fogwzu your right but before dlc 2 there was a a lot on the watch list, Bax was getting banned anyway
@@smokeyjoseph1790 Tbf, nat dex is a very different tier compared to SVOU, especially in terms of hazard management. There are both very few viable spinners and an insane abundance of high and low tier defoggers in ND, making a reliance on defog more common and therefore making Gholdengo much more oppressive in blocking it.
In SVOU, defog and spin are both very limited in users, with two good spinners (Tusk and Exca) and one (far from top tier) defogger. This means you’re more likely to use a spinner than a defogger for removal, making Gholdengo’s defog blocking a non factor for a significant chunk of the games it participates in.
On top of that, ND’s power level means a lot of threats to Ghold that normally are used often in SVOU are either underwhelming like Ting Lu, Weavile and Meowscarada or completely off the wall broken like Dragapult and Kingambit.
worth noting corviknight isn't just restricted because of the defog block, its a very defensive pokemon in a offensive metagame with threats it hates like raging bolt, burning bulwark, skeledirge, volcarona etc. being the ONLY defogger is not going to solve anything since it will be increase usage of these pokemon to support hazard based teams
Not gouging fire, SPECIFICALLY burning Bulwark. Who knew a protect clone could kill The knight xD
@@MaribelMusic0417 haha I didn't really proofread what I wrote as you can see
@@falcon9213I mean burning bulwark is an objectively better name
Gholdengo isn't banned from gen 9 OU. This is insane folks.
This is insane.
This is insane.
This must be the work of old money paying off the OU council
totally random but who was going to tell me that CONKELDURR has defog?????
he blows the fog away by waving his concrete slabs
as an ubers player, the fact the CONKELDURR has defog but HO-OH DOESNT is just ;-; ubers has been taken over by ho-oh gliscor fat balance and no defoggers is one of the main reasons
@@zowwycafeFunny thing in ND Ubers related to hazard removal:
So on web teams, you know how you usually sacrifice a mon for webs at the start of the match.
But a lot of sticky web teams also wanted Hazard removal because if the enemy lead set up Rocks and Spikes you would have a hard time setting up your sweepers, like Ekiller Arceus or Dragon dance Ultra Necrozma.
So to get hazard removal you would either use one of the many good defoggers in the teir, like Yveltal, Ho-oh or Giratina-O, but you would lose the sticky webs you sacrificed a Pokemon for and lose much of the point of Webs as a team style.
If you didn't want to use a defogger, you could use a rapid spinner to keep webs and remove the enemy hazards at the same time. The only problem with that was most of the spinners were really frail and unreliable or did rarely use Rapid spin to begin with. The 3 options you had for the longest time were Pheromosa, who while a scary offensive threat was a unreliable spinner as it couldn't switch in to anything, Regielikie, who was even WORSE than pheromosa due to not having any useful resistances, and the only other option for spinning was Mega Blastoise which is only Ubers because of Shell smash and isn't even good in Ubers anyways.
Until DLC2, Terapagos releases and it can actually rapid spin well while actually being a good Pokemon in it's own right. So after basically a entire year Sticky Web teams FINALLY had hazard removal that was good.
the new Lando T essentially
very common but "holds" the tier together
never compare this faker to the goat again
@@Mepphy99 layoff my Aegislash therapy
@@Mepphy99fr nothing will be as goated as lando t pre wipe
Doesn't he "ghold" the tier together
I agree that stealth rock has far too much distribution. It should be on almost every rock type pokemon, and then very rare on other typings. Stealth rock is amazing. Being a rock type is not, so it would help balance out the move.
I disagree with your defog reasoning. Not very many defog users are OU right now specifically because their utility is not very helpful. But that's only because of Gholdengo. If you remove Gholdengo, these pokes suddenly have a desired utility.
Is this really true? I would like to hear what kind of lower tier pokemon could reliably deal with the common hazard teams in OU right now in your opinion. from what I can see almost all of them thud against the likes of gliscor, skarmory, ting-lu, clodsire etc who are setting up the hazards they have to combat against.
low tier defoggers CANNOT keep up with gen 9 ou. This is the single strongest meta ever. Everything gets nukes by Bolt, Gouging, Rain, Gambit, Val, etc
I don’t think many if any lower tier defog users would rise up to OU if Ghold gets banned. Gen 9 OU is just to strong of a meta plus most lower tier defoggers can already deal with Ghold. Conk has knock off, Weezi g-G has Neutrilizing gas and madibuzz also had knock off so I don’t think Ghold’s ban will change much
Gholdengo has been scaped goated for gen 9 problems for too long. Its about time we get the record straight when it comes to this issue.
Gholdengo isn't what made hazzard stack stronger than it usually is this generation. Defog being gone as a tm is the real culprit.
I point to natdex tiers as an example where hazzard stacking past a simple layer of stealth rocks rarely occurs because all the defensive flying types that you were already using anyways have defog in the kits.
Also knock off being the freest click ever in singles is also a large culprit as to why hazzard stack cores fee l like they can always force value over time in gen 9.
NatDex tiers in which Gholdengo is already banned?
@SJtheMFZB thst was just the natdex council wanting to do their own thing and be different. Gholdengo is arguably weaker in that format than base OU. More threatening competition, and it's not like gholdengo gets that much out of z moves, in comparison to any other OU pokemon that slaps on a tech z move option.
knock off isnt as free in gen 9 as it was in gen 8. Mainly because of booster.
it’s been the most metagame warping pokemon this whole generation and that’s not a bad thing in and of itself. landorus was a healthy meta-defining pokemon for gens 5-8, but Joesen Ghoulden Levitt is NOT HEALTHY FOR GEN 9 OU. the typing is amazing and it’s stabs have perfect neutral coverage (no type resists both). it has coverage options for every weakness (imagine aegislash with fairy, fighting or electric coverage). it can use more than 3 tera types viably. oh yea it has nasty plot and is fast enough to outspeed defensive pokemon. it has reliable recovery and 3 immunities.. and 8 resistances. it can run literally ANY combination of sets and items. it’s immune to some of THE MOST common moves: taunt, toxic, thunder wave, encore and trick. oh yea and it BLOCKS SPIN AND FOG! it defines the ENTIRE hazard game by being the single best removal option EVER in the history of pokemon, you know the game where hazards have defined every generation (except first).
Did you ignore the entire video or do you just like to yap? Even if we ignore your entire segment on the hazard portion. Ghold is still checked by many defensive mons in the tier like Clod and Ting only beating Ting if you're dumb enough to let your opponent nasty plot like three times for free even if you do get two plots on Ting you still have to either drop your stats with Make it rain (( +4 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 373-439 (72.5 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery )) you still either have to Tera or use focus miss to guarantee the KO. And if you're balloon into Clod and thr Clod can't touch you then the most you do is force a sack then they switch into something like roaring moon to force tera or Shadowball Val to revenge or double back into clod after you tera to KO. Your other arguments about it running multiple tera types well also doesn't stand because many Pokemon also do this Roaring Moon goes Flying or sometimes Dark to boost it's stab. In the past week alone I've run into tera fairy, electric, and ghost Val. KINGAMBIT EXISTS!!! Ghold having many resistances also doesn't mean anything as fellow steel type Heatran had 9 resistances and if you run flame body two immunities and it's lower tier this gen. Corv also has a boat load of imminities...again Kingambit exists. Sharing two immunities and some resistances....Ghold is not a problem there is no reason to ban it because Banning it does nothing for the tier besides making life easier for no brain HO spammers.
@@Astraision gholdengo used psyshock, it’s super effective, Clod gets 2hko. gholdengo is at +4, Ting Lu eats right? tera fairy gleam bye bye. notice how even in your arguments, you need pokemon to sack, need to force the tera, and/or need to use your booster mon JUST to force it out. read your comment again and tell me that the counterplay you suggest seems healthy and non-oppressive. it just feels like you’re proving my point even further. you also mentioned the only 2 defensive pokemon that hard check it in the entire tier without tera-ing.
even if ghold isn't broken (which I honestly agree rn), I still really want a no ghold temporary ladder to see how much it changes hazard stack.
Gholdengo is a fine presence. One of our few Steel types with recovery and has a lot of nice qualities in the builder. I'm a big fan of Balloon Gholdengo for the Kyurem MU. Helps out a ton with other Pokemon like Iron Valiant, Hatterene, etc.
No. It should. It’s toxic as hell
Doesn’t matter if it keeps the meta together. Hazard war far would not be so powerful with him gone.
Should hazard stack teams have the one man "nope" button?
There are plenty of ways to protect hazards, other ghosts can block rapid spin, and there are some nasty pokemon who can threaten a reverse sweep with defiant into a defog,
The thing about golden boy is that he is a one pokemon answer to every form of hazard removal, and can do a lot of work on his own as an offensive threat outright. This means you can make the other 5 mons on your team do hazards while also not having to focus every mon on just hazards, they can take one hazard each and bring other utility to the field at the same time.
If you need 2, or even three pokemon to protect hazards from various threats, and those pokemon are not themselves well suited to stacking hazards, then you force the remaining hazard setters to either focus on hazards at the expense of flexibility, or they take less hazards.
5 setters + gold gives a lot of leeway compared to 4 setters and 2 defenders.
And teams where you have one or two hazard stackers who each carry 3 hazard setting moves is a inherently fragile team style where if you can get rid of the one or two setters, who are also very inflexible, then you can clear the way and win.
Gold is a win condition, but is also a very flexible, unpredictable, and difficult mon to deal with, with a lot of very good defensive qualities, and solid offense, with reliable access to recovery.
If gold was fragile, had a limited moveset, or limited offensive potential any one of those would make relying on it to make or break your team would be bad.
Gen 2 snorlax comes to mind as a comparable example of a pokemon that is your win condition, but can be very difficult to actually deal with and if caught off guard can threaten a reversal at any time.
Especially since we got a new form of hazard removal in Mortal Spin, that isn't blocked by ghost types, but instead by steel types, using Glimorra as a Spinner has value because of that in a Gholdengoless meta.
well, there's also the tidbit that it's impossible to "block" defog with any pokemon other than goldengo unless you happen to have a pokemon with taunt on the field
Its worth noting that other pokemon can reliably spin block just like gholdengo, it just also happens to be the best ghost type in the tier that fits on the most structures thanks to having great offensive and defensive sets, being immune to thunder wave, toxic and will-o-wisp is incredibly valuable and gholdengo isn't being used solely for its role as a hazard removal blocker.
if gholdengo was such a "nope" button as you call it, running rapid spin on tusk would be a waste. Its because gholdengo can't switch into it without it being a prediction that rapid spin is so reliable on tusk. Gholdengo doesn't even beat all defoggers as talonflame is being used on stall to combat it, the only reason people are calling for this ban is because the only good defogger, corviknight, can't do anything to gholdengo and people extrapolate that means gholdengo is single-handedly stopping any mon that learns defog from being any good.
Good vid, and I agree that Ghold shouldn't be banned. Ghold does make hazard stack easier BUT the main issue is the lack of removal in comparison to how many mons can run hazards. There is only 1 relevant defogger, and imo Corv is pretty bad rn and Great Tusk is the main spinner with Treads and Drill behind it. Was really hoping defog would be distributed more with the dlc (giving it back to Torn-T and Lando) but alas that wasn't the case.
This is one of the LMAOs of watching Gen 9 OU. Defog being completely absent from the tier is really not a meme. The definitive answer is to have Tusk in when Gholds is not and won't switch in. Otherwise, it's Boots all day and 60-75% switch-ins.
Claiming that Corviknight is the only good Defog user is a little disingenuous.
Even though Neutralizing Gas *does* disable Good as Gold, Weezing-Galar still matches up terribly into Gholdengo by typing, and might rise to OU in its absence, especially given its utility against the rest of the metagame that would be further boosted by consistent access to Defog.
I like Geezing but I think that's a cope take.
Even without Ghold, it doesn’t match up terribly well into OU. It’s great against physical attackers, but just completely terrible into any good special attacker. Archaludon, Raging Bolt, Primarina, Kyurem, Pult, etc.
Most of them are weak to fairy but will almost never take fatal damage from its fairy move even with prior chip. It’s also setup bait for gouging Fire, unless you wanna risk the game fishing for confusion with a move that isn’t even guaranteed to land.
It was much better into the meta overall back in DLC1 when grassy terrain offense and Ghold-Scor hazard stack ruled the meta, both of which it had an okay match up into. Right now with sun offense, rain offense and Kyurem balance being more on the common side it’s much, much harder to use.
Weezing hasn't gained any significant tools since gen 8 and uses mostly the same set, and it wasn't that great in those tiers either. It doesn't even reliably beat most of gen 9's common hazard setters like deo-s, glimmora, gliscor etc. so its unlikely it would be able to keep off hazards well even if defog couldn't be blocked
If only people used Incineroar in singles more, then we wouldnt have this talk
25/25/25/25/1. No
This is probably a joke but I'm going to say this anyway:
Incineroar is unviable in OU
Bro, those coins are not worth silencing yourself and saying what Gholdengo WANTS people to think.
"You can't stop me because I can't read!"
-people who don't play the format.
How about it’s Niche in Gen 4 Ubers?
Ban gholdengo. Period, the end
Ive suggested this before, but all Gamefreak has to do to balance it out, is remove Defog's stupid and unnecesary evasion decrease effect, and make it so it only affects the field.
Dont agree. Good as ghold is not just a defog denier, it allows gholdengo to pretty much beat any of its checks with the right set. Mandibuzz would be a much more viable mon if not for ghold (ghold sets up on mandi). If tera was banned ghold is just anoying but not broken, but that not being the case, gholdengo is just the right tera away to win any game by itself
this applies to half of OU with tera, ghold isn't really the worst abuser compared to stuff like kingambit. Mandibuzz thuds against a ton of pokemon in OU that can set up for free against it when it can't fit all the moves it would need. given defog and roost are on it, it has to choose between foul play knock off and brave bird, and if it gives up any of those certain mons in OU just set up on it for free. Great tusk and valiant LOVE it if its missing brave bird, iron boulder loves if it misses foul play, ting-lu walls it if it doesn't have knock off, just to give a few examples.
Mandibuzz is extremely passive for the OU metagame and doesn't have the obcene bulk, hazard or setup potential that the others in OU right now do like dondozo, clodsire and gliscor, in order to stand its ground and snowball the offense ridden tier.
I personally like foul play/roost/defog/toxic mandi, where toxic works better than those examples than either bb or knock off. Mandibuzz would be a reliable counter to tusk, ting lu, dragapult, excadrill, gouging fire, iron threads, samurott-h, lando-t, and the list goes on, but if there is a gholdengo on the opponent's team, it either needs uturn to keep mommentum, or is just a free turn for the opponent (or u double, which isnt reliable in a long term imo)
I do belive it would be ou if there wasnt a common mon that blocks its team support capabilty, while using it as setup fodder
@@lycamobile00 gold isn't your problem with that set tho, archaludon is way more of a problem than ghold is. With that set you also lose to gliscor and are total food to glimmora teams. You're also hard walled by clodsire. And then notice how all of these are hazard setters you'd need your defogger to not lose to
Where is Gholden going??
Let's be real, Good As Gold shouldn't be immune to Defog. Defog shouldn't be a "status" condition in the first plays, man. I think just this little change will do Gholdengo's hazars control much more manageable
I still don’t know why people want to ban this guy, like this is not dlc 1 meta anymore, maybe people just suck:/
Gsc Snorlax
Yea with the distribution of certain moves being so sparce I checked out of this Gen... Except scald, too many mons had scald
I’m one of the people who think gold is unhealthy but now my opinion just like meta has changed for the time being
eh, it's more like there's just more stuff that's more unhealthy than gholdengo now...
@@nathanielbass771 personally I appreciate a more aggressive fast pace metagame
since we don't have a defogger and sleep was banned, gholdengo is pretically a pokemon without ability which can be fucked up if it doesn't have its baloon
so yeah ... now it is not broken
Good video for sure, but I have just one question for you. If you don't think Gholdengo's neither broken nor the problem, then what is?
Lack of Hazard removal? Most likely, but that's not getting fixed anytime soon so we're stuck with it. The pokemon that get hazards? I suppose, but what do we do then? Ban Spikes? One wouldn't even be able to finish that thought before you'd be laughed out of the discussion.
Tell me what *is* the problem so we can get some discussion on that instead, or at least gesture in a diferent direction. What can be banned in Ghold's place to limit hazard issues? Assuming that'll be an idea we can entertain in the first place
The problem imo: too many viable hazard setters and too little removal. There is only 1 viable defogger, but it's tough to fit on every team even if ghold was banned. All of the rapid spinners are quite susceptible to spikes stack themselves and are also not very durable, which means the removal options don't want to switch in on spikes (but they need to to remove them of course). Combine that with the fact that quite some spike setters (gliscor, samurott h for example) can easily beat the spinners, it becomes difficult to keep hazards of the field. This is not even mentioning spin blockers. Cinderace can court change, but something like gliscor really doesn't mind setting up again.
Tldr, too little viable hazard removers that are not actually good at removing hazards
@@rozepanter007 Do you think there's even anything the community can do about it? I get banning Gliscor, but that's only one piece of the puzzle
Mmm still not convinced that you're not being paid off by the past paradox pokemon of Gholdengo: Old Money.
And let's wait for the comments who will say otherwise and not understand your points. But great video overall. :)
Ban hazards???
I agree unless they also ban lando t.
i've never lost to a gholdengo in regulation F....... i think its better in 6v6 then 3v3
Just ban gliscor and archaludon and then we will see how the tier develops
gliscor is not broken in a kyurem meta bro.
It’s a shit mon to catch in the wild…
I guess they'll ban all his counters instead.
Ok but can we agree Tera and Kingambit need to go? In my eyes one is just an unhealthy 50/50 and the other is a core reason for so many Pokémon needing bans in the first place.
Gambit was already suspect tested and avoided the banhammer
Gambit can stay if Tera gets banned