It would be nice to have some around, but not in the huge numbers that resulted from the removal of native human populations. These huge flocks were likely a human induced imbalance resulting from the loss of the natives who hunted them.
You should know that we have lost 2/3 of the world wildlife population over the last 50 years. Human beings tend to kill everything they come in contact with.
@@andywomack3414we could use the help of hunters who I’m sure would be willing to pay for tags or permits. Boost funding for conservation and balance population
@@andywomack3414 According to some ecologists, passenger pigeon populations were large and stable over the past 21,000 years. Ben Novak addresses the misconception that pigeon numbers exploded after European settlement. He concludes that "Our current population genetics analyses show that the Passenger Pigeon was stably abundant for tens of thousands of years, before humans arrived in North America." You can read more about the misconception here: reviverestore.org/projects/the-great-passenger-pigeon-comeback/
I imagine the carnivores like martens, fishers, weasels and bobcats must have really benefited from the pigeons’ arrival in the Spring. And the loss of all that biomass must have really thrown the food chain for a loop.
There really aren't any "untouched wild" herds of Bison in the United States. The so called last remaining wild herds are actually the product of manipulation as the bison that remained at the turn of the 20th Century were corralled and bred back from the brink of extinction. Pure North American Bison DNA might still exist in the herds in Canada but not the lower 48 contiguous states.
Cincinnati native here. I've cried both there, and in front of Stumpys shrine at Wright Patterson...he was a decorated war pigeon. He saved many lives. But he wasn't the last of his species. Martha's loss is a darker thing. I hope they do bring them back,.
@@dl1361 According to some researcher, mosquitos have killed and disabled more humans than any other animal. Always better off without mosquito swarms.
@@andywomack3414 maybe we can get rid of all the pesky rodents,squirrels,raccoons and deer too? A little sarcasm yeah. But I’m not enthusiastic about eradicating other life forms
The wanton destruction of Eastern North American forests for timber harvest in the late 19th century was a major factor in the decline of the passenger pigeon. When we visit a high quality forest preserve nowadays, it's helpful to keep in mind that what we think of as a healthy and pristine wilderness is actually a radically altered habitat when compared to the time before European settlers arrived. Very interesting to hear some of the theories on the ecological effects to forests due to the passenger pigeon extinction. Great video, thank you!
It wasn't just the timber they wanted, land was cleared for farmland. Eastern White Pine was huge export lumber for the USA. American white oak has been slightly protected and managed because of it's use in wine barrels and bourbon casks but it's clear huge changes have occurred in the the surviving eastern hardwood and mixed forests of North America, whether it's changes in fire regimes, felling, and disease all because of humans in the span of little over a century.
@@leightonolsson4846 I'm 84 and my grandfather was born in S. E. Wi. in1871 and lived to 93. We talked a lot about how he saw the forests come down, the landscape changing and the birds disappearing.
The biggest tree in the east, the Chestnut was wiped out by disease because someone brought over a different type of Chestnut from Asia (I think). Someone else brought over a handfull of Starlings from England and now they number in the millions. Many local birds are becoming scarce. I haven't seen a robin in decades. People, to this day, can import exotic pets then many are released into the wild. Note the Pythons in Florida and monster fish in our lakes and rivers. Etcetera.
@@williamlavelle7786 Wow, that's amazing testimony, although sad. Thank you for taking the time to reply; I have ¼ USA ancestry so between that and my fascination with trees (our parks (in the UK) are full of red oaks, yellow poplar, sweetgum to name just a few), I feel a connection with the US - even though my grandmother brought my mother here back when she was barely a toddler.
Where I live is nothing but pine trees. Maybe there's a way to reforest where I live. Plus gopher tortoises are endangered but I see them every so often where I live.
Thank you Adam! I love your incredible knowledge and enthusiasm! As a novice mycologist, I've been watching only your mushroom videos for a few years now. But this just introduced me to something I didn't even know I was interested in!!! 😊 As always, you gave such a clear and interesting delivery of a topic not frequently seen!
And the American chestnut was spread all over. How about the effects of the dung on the soils and how it helped build the fertile soils we have today. The fires as a result may have kept specific diseases in check by not allowing them to spread. Now it’s a horror if we have a fire. Excellent video of the pigeon. Thank you for doing that
Most of the fire issue is "Smokey Bear" campaign who ironically had its 80th anniversary YESTERDAY. I had the unfortunate experience to visit a UFS cavern yesterday.
@@virginiainla8085 Are you serious? A chicken can't swallow a small chestnut. which are about 1cm in diameter, about the same size as a passenger pigeon's head. If that's the case, they were doomed anyway.
Every time I go hiking I think about how things live in the forest, everything is interconnected somehow. There's the small scale relationships and the bigger changes that occur that occur over time that we don't really think about. I really enjoy your videos Adam. I'm in the Pacific Northwest but hopefully will visit the Eastern forests one day.
The extinction of the passenger pigeon has always left me in shock and mourning. How could so many billions of birds be wiped out so thoroughly? How could hunters be so callous as to not see what they were doing? The callousness is beyond understanding.
Earlier comments below are why we need a part 2, but viewers are suggesting a science (sociopolitical, economic, human behavioral sciences) likely outside of Adam's province. Fascinating stuff!
To @patriotsongs One of the saddest parts of this story is that there were states and localities that did try to protect the last Passenger Pigeon colonies, but they did not have the resources to protect them. The hunters just ignored and overwhelmed the few officials that were attempting to stop the killing.
John Muir talked about passenger pigeons darkening the sky in hundreds of thousands coming to roost for the night. They were hunted & culled until. Last passenger pigeon died in 1914 in a zoo Like the dodo & Florida parrot & the auk, etc - not extinction - exploitation
A very poignant story of the extinction of the Passenger Pigeon can be read in "The Silent Sky: The Incredible Extinction Of The Passenger Pigeon" by Allan W. Eckert
It will be interesting to see if they are successful. One of the reasons the populations went completely extinct is that passenger pigeons had adapted to living in large communal groups. It wasn't simply that hunters killed every single bird. They just killed so many that the colonies did not have the numbers necessary to sustain themselves anymore. So how many passenger pigeons do you need in a flock to be successful at reproduction and survival? A hundred, a thousand, ten thousand? Not sure we have those answers right now.
I would have loved to have seen a passenger pigeon. I love my ring neck and mourning doves. The mourning dove coo so lovely and the ring necks are so timid and innocent. I would love to hear a passenger. Don't forget to backyard bird feed. Help our feathered friends, they really need it!
I've been feeding our mourning doves for over a decade and they come to the window when they see me to tell me to put more food out. AzureStandard has organic human-grade hulled millet, and they LOVE that, if you want to spoil them.
@@EP-qi8ed Ya they let you know when the foods out don't they! Sounds like you really spoil them. But they sure are worth it. They bring so much beauty and joy to the backyard. Happy feeding!
Ring Neck Doves are a species introduced into North America. They're natural range extends from Europe to parts of North Africa. They are not native to the Americas. Mourning Doves are native and probably the closest extant relative species of the Passenger Pigeon.
I recently read a book (1491 by Charles C. Mann) which states the recent evidence suggests that the passenger pigeon did not exist in huge numbers prior to European contact. After native American populations crashed due to disease after coming into contact with European diseases, passenger pigeon increased due to some (unidentified) ecological imbalance. The book suggests that it was not hunting by native Americans that kept numbers low. The book suggests that the relationship was more complex. It may be that European farming methods lead to the population increase. But I do not think we will ever know for sure.
I read that too. It seems that what Charles Mann wrote in 1491 about the passenger pigeon isn't entirely accepted by everyone. According to some ecologists, passenger pigeon populations were large and stable over the past 21,000 years. Ben Novak addresses this misconception and concludes that "Our current population genetics analyses show that the Passenger Pigeon was stably abundant for tens of thousands of years, before humans arrived in North America." You can read more about the misconception here: reviverestore.org/projects/the-great-passenger-pigeon-comeback/
How much of that was baseless propaganda to remove an abundant food source to hurt the tribes, as they did bison? I don't believe they destroyed trees. A humble crabapple tree on my street was covered by GT grackles every year and it didn't bust apart. I suspect Freemasons drove the misinfo, the same way they went after hemp.
The same thing may have happened with the American bison. Europeans crossing the present United States in the 1500s and 1600s rarely encountered bison in large numbers. By the 1800s bison were teeming in the millions, from the Appalachian mountains to the Rockies.
There was at the nature and science center now called the Virginia Liveing Museum a stuffed Passenger Pigeon. It may have been one that died in the zoo around 1914
More likely that specimen was one perhaps hundreds collected by ornithologists back in the 1800's that collected birds of all species. Most natural History museums around the country probably have specimens.
I've heard of a theory that the prevalence of Lyme disease is partially a result of the extinction of the Passenger Pigeon. The idea being the acorns and other hard mast that was no longer eaten by the pigeons allowed deer and rodents to occur in close proximity, resulting in ticks being transferred between the two more easily. The deer (whose population increased exponentially with our removal of wolves and cougars) traveling further distances than the rodents, contributed to the spread of the disease.
The PP itself may have been a victim of disease. It's almost impossible to shoot billions of small, fast, wary birds in 50 years. Surely something else was at work there. In Argentina, there is a severe pigeon/dove problem, and people shoot them at will, even flying in from abroad to hunt them. This has not helped a bit, they're still a great pestilence on crops.
It's because of Michigan. That region was their nesting grounds. When they cut down the entire state. The entire thumb of Michigan burned, and they've kept trees off since. Its well recorded history, and not a secret.
Tinfoil hat time, but this one is pretty clear-cut: Lyme disease resulted from an accidental (I hope) release of human-modified pathogens. There is a government testing facility on an island right off of Lyme, Connecticut (city for which it is named). It was never documented anywhere in the world before the 1980's, and now it's spread to other countries, though it is still most prevalent in the northeastern US where it originated.
@@HuckleberryHim i doubt it was accidental, possibly hapoens occasionally, but more likely intentionally. Because people are making money from it. They have been doing research on that type of thing since the 1800's, as weapons. Ans there has never been a weapon developed that hasn't been used
@@davidpotter7484 It could have been an ill-guided experiment gone awry, or just an accident because humans really are incompetent (we still don't know how COVID started). But what makes me think it wasn't a straight up intentional bioweapon release is that it isn't that deadly or fast. Probably just people being stupid at the end of the day
Wow - Little Tornados ! Another species that is destructive as humans .... very interesting :) This was fascinating ! I'm nature oriented but all I knew is the Passenger P was extinct - I knew none of this - thanks for sharing
The only bit I can add is that I knew they were thick enough they could be clubbed off their roost. That made an impression on me when I learned it, such that I cannot think of Passenger Pigeons without remembering that fact.
Definitely. Often it seems that the forests are barren of animal life. I'm in the mountains of North Carolina right now, by Pisgah. Its almost always dead silent in the woods. The tree and plants are overwhelmingly beautiful but something about the Forest strikes me deeply barren. I don't think it was supposed to be like this. Most people have no clue the eastern US even had a parakeet. I wasn't taught that in school.
@@brightmooninthenight2111 You americans decimated animals and forest. I was in the north carolina south mountains today and saw not one large animal and no bird.
wow, i bet we could bring them back like the buffalo. i live in costa rica and we have one wild pigeon (Red-billed Pigeon Patagioenas flavirostris) it looks similar to this one. i really like them they are big and beautiful
I periodically consider a variety of plants, trees and shrubs that are distributed by the fowl of the air and wonder which kind of fowl distribute which kind of plants, as it's obvious when a canopy is opened up in areas that a much more diverse ecology blooms in its vacancy
I am HUGE admirer of the Columbidae family of birds and every time I see photos and documentaries about the passenger pigeons it saddens me to the core.
In Civil War times, large accumulations of bird droppings (niter) were collected for the making of gunpowder. So, in that way, the passenger pigeon was carrying the seeds of its own destruction.
There is a theory that the massive size of the passenger pigeon flocks seen in the colonial era may have been a byproduct of the epidemics spread by Europeans- there were fewer pressures on their population with so many humans gone.
Another great upload , the fact modern day pigeons flock in cities is our fault , alot of them lost theyre natural insticts because of us and when the phone became widespread we discardes them , they definitely deserved so much better.
@@dudleyhaines9826 They are indeed cliff dwellers, and even keener on caves. The wild stock that all these urban pigeons descend from is the rock dove, a relatively uncommon bird and they come to our bird table here on Skye in northwest Scotland.
Excellent video, research and storytelling! I also noticed a few interesting background bird language" situations...at 7:20, wood thrushes and a few other species (maybe robins and titmice?) begin alarming - likely at a raptor stationed nearby.
Consider also that this bird since it has not existed on the landscape for some time could potentially act as an invasive species, since associated life forms may have also disappeared with it. Proceed with caution….
That is something interesting to consider but I truly doubt that eastern forests have changed so much in 100 years in terms of the actual species there. Now, I do believe that passenger pigeons could contribute to the spread of invasive species, they could eat there seeds and spread them to their roosting sites.
14:00 Wild mushrooms are what I was expecting to see in this video at some point. 🍄🍄🍣🍣 I live in the Northwest and would to see a video correlating how Passenger Pigeons may have played a huge role in the growth and dispersion of mushroom species. Fungus may very well be the cornerstone of the evolution of all life on our planet.
This is definitely one of my favorite videos! Thank you for this valuable information 😊 I do wonder sometimes, how 'they' know that something has gone extinct for sure, because once in a while, you see an article of scientists spotting something in the wild that had been thought extinct for a long time😊🤔
In the case of Ohio, the two extinct bird species are distinctive enough that you'd notice them if you saw one. Plus, you need at least 1000 individuals to maintain a population, or there will eventually be dangerous levels of inbreeding.
Great video- would appreciate more videos about the devastating loss of our native species and the destruction caused by the introduced and invasive ones. I live in WI and wonder if some of my old trees remember the passenger pigeons...
Apparently, there are no known recordings of the sounds they made, but "The noise produced by flocks of passenger pigeons was described as deafening, audible for miles away, and the bird's voice as loud, harsh, and unmusical. It was also described by some as clucks, twittering, and cooing, and as a series of low notes, instead of an actual song."
Extremely interesting, and also worth pointin out that some researchers believe that the prevalence of white oaks may have also been faciliated by large grazers, bison especially. This is partly based on the observation that European white oaks thrive in grazed ecosystems, and that through conservation grazing, oak regeneration failure can be reversed. In any case, it is fascinating to contemplate how animals might have in the past influenced and altered their habitats!
Around 1830 author Fenimore Cooper wrote a story about a family that began randomly shooting at a passenger pigeon flock, killing more than they could eat, only to be scolded by an elder who shamed them for their heedless way of killing that involved none of the skills of hunting. It was pretty prophetic in the sense that this manner of "hunting" was what pretty much wiped out bison as well, and probably a few other species we could name.
You know that if those Passenger Pigeons were still around today it would be near to impossible to travel to North America by Airplane, Now coming to think maybe their sudden extinction around the time that they did wasn’t a coincidence after all 🤔
I wonder if, as these flew around and excreted dung, that the pattern of the accumulated dung can be preserved in the depository record. We could see if these patterns of dispersal was changing over time since the ice age. To see if they went certain directions as forests started taking root and growing after the ice was gone. How did they manage to eat these nuts? They aren’t really equipped to cracking open nuts, are they? Were they in a symbiotic relationship with squirrels or something that could chew upon these nuts and then the birds would swoop in and eat the cracked open nuts? How did the extinction of these birds affect the populations of squirrels? Did their numbers increase or decrease after the pigeon went extinct?
Wow! That was eye opening. As a child we traveled a lot and lived in a few countries and states. But now that I am older and raised children of my own I have watched people grow old and children grow up, communities grow including the ecological community system. You just put everything into context! On my acres, my personal ecosystem, because I neglect my acreage, it has become filled with life I have no desire to disturb. The things that grow here and bird species I have never seen or heard brighten my life as much as my children do. I really enjoy your channel.
Failure to manage does not equate to success, especially in hardwood forests. Cultivation (water management) and forest management are important for ecosystems of savannas and hardwood forests.
I mourn this loss . How terrible to lose a part of our world
It would be nice to have some around, but not in the huge numbers that resulted from the removal of native human populations.
These huge flocks were likely a human induced imbalance resulting from the loss of the natives who hunted them.
You should know that we have lost 2/3 of the world wildlife population over the last 50 years. Human beings tend to kill everything they come in contact with.
@@andywomack3414we could use the help of hunters who I’m sure would be willing to pay for tags or permits. Boost funding for conservation and balance population
Just think, a flock of them could *destroy* your yard or park in one evening.
@@andywomack3414 According to some ecologists, passenger pigeon populations were large and stable over the past 21,000 years. Ben Novak addresses the misconception that pigeon numbers exploded after European settlement. He concludes that "Our current population genetics analyses show that the Passenger Pigeon was stably abundant for tens of thousands of years, before humans arrived in North America." You can read more about the misconception here: reviverestore.org/projects/the-great-passenger-pigeon-comeback/
I imagine the carnivores like martens, fishers, weasels and bobcats must have really benefited from the pigeons’ arrival in the Spring. And the loss of all that biomass must have really thrown the food chain for a loop.
Esp hawks, eagles, owls, crows, ravens, herons, buzzards, and even squirrels...!!!
Even squirrels eat lots of eggs!
There were also pigs in the forest, brought by europeans to fatten on mast, and the pigs also ate many pigeons on the ground, alive and dead.
Well done Adam. Very informative and interesting video! 👍👍
Yeah that's pretty sad. I'm surprised there are any Bison left as well.
I’m glad because Bison is tasty!
There really aren't any "untouched wild" herds of Bison in the United States. The so called last remaining wild herds are actually the product of manipulation as the bison that remained at the turn of the 20th Century were corralled and bred back from the brink of extinction. Pure North American Bison DNA might still exist in the herds in Canada but not the lower 48 contiguous states.
I get choked up every time I visit Martha's shrine.
Cincinnati native here. I've cried both there, and in front of Stumpys shrine at Wright Patterson...he was a decorated war pigeon. He saved many lives. But he wasn't the last of his species. Martha's loss is a darker thing. I hope they do bring them back,.
They failed to adapt. Better off without these pigeon swarms.
@@andywomack3414better off without mosquito swarms too?
@@dl1361 According to some researcher, mosquitos have killed and disabled more humans than any other animal. Always better off without mosquito swarms.
@@andywomack3414 maybe we can get rid of all the pesky rodents,squirrels,raccoons and deer too? A little sarcasm yeah. But I’m not enthusiastic about eradicating other life forms
The wanton destruction of Eastern North American forests for timber harvest in the late 19th century was a major factor in the decline of the passenger pigeon. When we visit a high quality forest preserve nowadays, it's helpful to keep in mind that what we think of as a healthy and pristine wilderness is actually a radically altered habitat when compared to the time before European settlers arrived.
Very interesting to hear some of the theories on the ecological effects to forests due to the passenger pigeon extinction. Great video, thank you!
It wasn't just the timber they wanted, land was cleared for farmland. Eastern White Pine was huge export lumber for the USA. American white oak has been slightly protected and managed because of it's use in wine barrels and bourbon casks but it's clear huge changes have occurred in the the surviving eastern hardwood and mixed forests of North America, whether it's changes in fire regimes, felling, and disease all because of humans in the span of little over a century.
@@leightonolsson4846 I'm 84 and my grandfather was born in S. E. Wi. in1871 and lived to 93. We talked a lot about how he saw the forests come down, the landscape changing and the birds disappearing.
The biggest tree in the east, the Chestnut was wiped out by disease because someone brought over a different type of Chestnut from Asia (I think).
Someone else brought over a handfull of Starlings from England and now they number in the millions. Many local birds are becoming scarce. I haven't seen a robin in decades.
People, to this day, can import exotic pets then many are released into the wild. Note the Pythons in Florida and monster fish in our lakes and rivers.
Etcetera.
@@williamlavelle7786 Wow, that's amazing testimony, although sad. Thank you for taking the time to reply; I have ¼ USA ancestry so between that and my fascination with trees (our parks (in the UK) are full of red oaks, yellow poplar, sweetgum to name just a few), I feel a connection with the US - even though my grandmother brought my mother here back when she was barely a toddler.
Where I live is nothing but pine trees. Maybe there's a way to reforest where I live. Plus gopher tortoises are endangered but I see them every so often where I live.
Thank you Adam! I love your incredible knowledge and enthusiasm! As a novice mycologist, I've been watching only your mushroom videos for a few years now. But this just introduced me to something I didn't even know I was interested in!!! 😊 As always, you gave such a clear and interesting delivery of a topic not frequently seen!
What an amazing story Adam. Thx
And the American chestnut was spread all over.
How about the effects of the dung on the soils and how it helped build the fertile soils we have today.
The fires as a result may have kept specific diseases in check by not allowing them to spread. Now it’s a horror if we have a fire.
Excellent video of the pigeon. Thank you for doing that
Chestnuts are far too big for the PP to swallow. Even turkeys had a tough time eating them.
Most of the fire issue is "Smokey Bear" campaign who ironically had its 80th anniversary YESTERDAY.
I had the unfortunate experience to visit a UFS cavern yesterday.
@@Bob_Adkins The video mentioned chestnuts.
@@Bob_AdkinsThey fed mostly on Americam chestnuts
@@virginiainla8085 Are you serious? A chicken can't swallow a small chestnut. which are about 1cm in diameter, about the same size as a passenger pigeon's head. If that's the case, they were doomed anyway.
Fascinating Adam! Thanks for sharing this👌👌
Every time I go hiking I think about how things live in the forest, everything is interconnected somehow. There's the small scale relationships and the bigger changes that occur that occur over time that we don't really think about. I really enjoy your videos Adam. I'm in the Pacific Northwest but hopefully will visit the Eastern forests one day.
Please do
They are lush and green…especially now
So different from your neck of the woods…which is uniquely as incredible ✨🌿✨
@@theresapelham1918 🌳
This takes forest forensics to a new level. Awesome vid. Thanks
Literally turned paradise into a parking lot.
The birds did? Not sure what you mean...
@@noahway13 yes. The birds turned the country into a parking lot. Not capitalism. Not white people. The birds.
Passenger Pigeon: from billions to none.
GO jONI!
@@noahway13 It's a reference to a song by Joni Mitchell.
" They paved Paradise,put up a parking lot. "
To inform and inspire is your path. Thank you.
The extinction of the passenger pigeon has always left me in shock and mourning. How could so many billions of birds be wiped out so thoroughly? How could hunters be so callous as to not see what they were doing? The callousness is beyond understanding.
For all of our purported big brain capabilities, we are a spectacularly short sighted species.
They were market hunters just like the ones slaughtering the American bison
@@brandyjean7015it's not our species that is short sighted it's specific cultures and economies that cause this outsized harm
Earlier comments below are why we need a part 2, but viewers are suggesting a science (sociopolitical, economic, human behavioral sciences) likely outside of Adam's province. Fascinating stuff!
To @patriotsongs
One of the saddest parts of this story is that there were states and localities that did try to protect the last Passenger Pigeon colonies, but they did not have the resources to protect them. The hunters just ignored and overwhelmed the few officials that were attempting to stop the killing.
John Muir talked about passenger pigeons darkening the sky in hundreds of thousands coming to roost for the night. They were hunted & culled until. Last passenger pigeon died in 1914 in a zoo
Like the dodo & Florida parrot & the auk, etc - not extinction - exploitation
Florida parrot = Carolina parakeet?
Passenger Pigeons are fascinating. Thank you Adam, for this excellent video and a more in depth look at one of the world's most iconic birds. 🌼🌳
A very poignant story of the extinction of the Passenger Pigeon can be read in "The Silent Sky: The Incredible Extinction Of The Passenger Pigeon" by Allan W. Eckert
Too cool.. sad but interesting... Adam is unbelievable.. I'm always amazed at his awesome videos.
Fascinating stuff. I've often wondered what kind of impact the huge numbers of these birds must have had on the environment.
Hard not to tear up.
That Biotech Startup called Colossal trying to bring back mammoths should refocus on passenger pigeons…
Revive & Restore is working on it: reviverestore.org/about-the-passenger-pigeon/
It will be interesting to see if they are successful. One of the reasons the populations went completely extinct is that passenger pigeons had adapted to living in large communal groups. It wasn't simply that hunters killed every single bird. They just killed so many that the colonies did not have the numbers necessary to sustain themselves anymore. So how many passenger pigeons do you need in a flock to be successful at reproduction and survival? A hundred, a thousand, ten thousand? Not sure we have those answers right now.
@@HundedeskriegesWV think that’s even harder with mammoths
@@HundedeskriegesWVThere is still DOVE hunting every year shooting all the doves they see in the air so they made sure they'd never recover.
. . . but were they a keystone species? @@squidward5110
Extremely interesting. Thank you for this look back into our forest history. Well done!
Thanks for the video
I would have loved to have seen a passenger pigeon. I love my ring neck and mourning doves. The mourning dove coo so lovely and the ring necks are so timid and innocent. I would love to hear a passenger. Don't forget to backyard bird feed. Help our feathered friends, they really need it!
I've been feeding our mourning doves for over a decade and they come to the window when they see me to tell me to put more food out. AzureStandard has organic human-grade hulled millet, and they LOVE that, if you want to spoil them.
@@EP-qi8ed Ya they let you know when the foods out don't they! Sounds like you really spoil them. But they sure are worth it. They bring so much beauty and joy to the backyard. Happy feeding!
Ring Neck Doves are a species introduced into North America. They're natural range extends from Europe to parts of North Africa. They are not native to the Americas.
Mourning Doves are native and probably the closest extant relative species of the Passenger Pigeon.
Wow, one of your best videos yet!!!! The information was incredible!
I recently read a book (1491 by Charles C. Mann) which states the recent evidence suggests that the passenger pigeon did not exist in huge numbers prior to European contact. After native American populations crashed due to disease after coming into contact with European diseases, passenger pigeon increased due to some (unidentified) ecological imbalance. The book suggests that it was not hunting by native Americans that kept numbers low. The book suggests that the relationship was more complex. It may be that European farming methods lead to the population increase. But I do not think we will ever know for sure.
I read that too. It seems that what Charles Mann wrote in 1491 about the passenger pigeon isn't entirely accepted by everyone. According to some ecologists, passenger pigeon populations were large and stable over the past 21,000 years. Ben Novak addresses this misconception and concludes that "Our current population genetics analyses show that the Passenger Pigeon was stably abundant for tens of thousands of years, before humans arrived in North America." You can read more about the misconception here: reviverestore.org/projects/the-great-passenger-pigeon-comeback/
How much of that was baseless propaganda to remove an abundant food source to hurt the tribes, as they did bison?
I don't believe they destroyed trees. A humble crabapple tree on my street was covered by GT grackles every year and it didn't bust apart.
I suspect Freemasons drove the misinfo, the same way they went after hemp.
@@LearnYourLand Thanks.
@@spsmith1965
*led
The same thing may have happened with the American bison. Europeans crossing the present United States in the 1500s and 1600s rarely encountered bison in large numbers. By the 1800s bison were teeming in the millions, from the Appalachian mountains to the Rockies.
Thank you for this presentation.
Although I’m mad you used a video idea I’ve been really excited about making you did it far more justice than i could have! Great video man!
Love your videos
Very Interesting thank you
This is so interesting! 💚 ty
Very insightful. It is so interesting to see how all things are so interdependant. Thanks.
There was at the nature and science center now called the Virginia Liveing Museum a stuffed Passenger Pigeon. It may have been one that died in the zoo around 1914
More likely that specimen was one perhaps hundreds collected by ornithologists back in the 1800's that collected birds of all species. Most natural History museums around the country probably have specimens.
I've heard of a theory that the prevalence of Lyme disease is partially a result of the extinction of the Passenger Pigeon. The idea being the acorns and other hard mast that was no longer eaten by the pigeons allowed deer and rodents to occur in close proximity, resulting in ticks being transferred between the two more easily. The deer (whose population increased exponentially with our removal of wolves and cougars) traveling further distances than the rodents, contributed to the spread of the disease.
The PP itself may have been a victim of disease. It's almost impossible to shoot billions of small, fast, wary birds in 50 years. Surely something else was at work there.
In Argentina, there is a severe pigeon/dove problem, and people shoot them at will, even flying in from abroad to hunt them. This has not helped a bit, they're still a great pestilence on crops.
It's because of Michigan. That region was their nesting grounds. When they cut down the entire state. The entire thumb of Michigan burned, and they've kept trees off since. Its well recorded history, and not a secret.
Tinfoil hat time, but this one is pretty clear-cut: Lyme disease resulted from an accidental (I hope) release of human-modified pathogens. There is a government testing facility on an island right off of Lyme, Connecticut (city for which it is named). It was never documented anywhere in the world before the 1980's, and now it's spread to other countries, though it is still most prevalent in the northeastern US where it originated.
@@HuckleberryHim i doubt it was accidental, possibly hapoens occasionally, but more likely intentionally. Because people are making money from it. They have been doing research on that type of thing since the 1800's, as weapons. Ans there has never been a weapon developed that hasn't been used
@@davidpotter7484 It could have been an ill-guided experiment gone awry, or just an accident because humans really are incompetent (we still don't know how COVID started). But what makes me think it wasn't a straight up intentional bioweapon release is that it isn't that deadly or fast. Probably just people being stupid at the end of the day
Well done . Thank you for your video.
Wow - Little Tornados ! Another species that is destructive as humans .... very interesting :) This was fascinating ! I'm nature oriented but all I knew is the Passenger P was extinct - I knew none of this - thanks for sharing
The only bit I can add is that I knew they were thick enough they could be clubbed off their roost. That made an impression on me when I learned it, such that I cannot think of Passenger Pigeons without remembering that fact.
It would be nice to see a video like this about the Carolina Parokeet. Probably the most beautiful bird we’ve lost😢
Definitely. Often it seems that the forests are barren of animal life. I'm in the mountains of North Carolina right now, by Pisgah. Its almost always dead silent in the woods. The tree and plants are overwhelmingly beautiful but something about the Forest strikes me deeply barren. I don't think it was supposed to be like this.
Most people have no clue the eastern US even had a parakeet. I wasn't taught that in school.
@@brightmooninthenight2111 You americans decimated animals and forest. I was in the north carolina south mountains today and saw not one large animal and no bird.
All living creatures are beautiful, but especially birds. It breaks my heart knowing how many of them have died by humanity's hands.😢
Outstanding presentation, Thank you !
Your videos are well researched and insightful. You're entertaining as well.
wow, i bet we could bring them back like the buffalo. i live in costa rica and we have one wild pigeon (Red-billed Pigeon Patagioenas flavirostris) it looks similar to this one. i really like them they are big and beautiful
Fascinating video. Thank you.
Fascinating. Love the comments that add info as well !
Thank you for this excellent presentation.
I read about this hypothesis several years ago it's quite fascinating.
Thank you so much for this interesting information!
Thank you so much for your unique and informative videos
I periodically consider a variety of plants, trees and shrubs that are distributed by the fowl of the air and wonder which kind of fowl distribute which kind of plants, as it's obvious when a canopy is opened up in areas that a much more diverse ecology blooms in its vacancy
What a good presentation.
I love your content. Keep doing you! ❤❤
Great video Adam!
I am HUGE admirer of the Columbidae family of birds and every time I see photos and documentaries about the passenger pigeons it saddens me to the core.
Go to London and try to see if you still admire them.
@@Random_UserName4269 No need. We have native species in the United States and Yes I do admire columbiformes and birds in general.
Well done! You tell us so that even a low educated but curious 63 year old man can understand. Great job and channel!
That was really interesting, you're a good teacher. So sad they're gone.
One of your best videos!
Excellent video as always (although sad this time) - thank you!
I enjoy learning this information.
I feel so much smarter every time I listen to one of your videos
Awesome story, Adam.
Very good presentation! Learned a lot, thanks!
I had no idea about the numbers of pigeons there were. Fascinating!
In Civil War times, large accumulations of bird droppings (niter) were collected for the making of gunpowder. So, in that way, the passenger pigeon was carrying the seeds of its own destruction.
Rebs and Yanks killed each other with bird shit
Excellent presentation!
Very informative. Greatly appreciated.
There is a theory that the massive size of the passenger pigeon flocks seen in the colonial era may have been a byproduct of the epidemics spread by Europeans- there were fewer pressures on their population with so many humans gone.
This was very good. I think youcould do another on the beaver and the vast network of wetlands they created
Bravo! One of your bests!
Another great upload , the fact modern day pigeons flock in cities is our fault , alot of them lost theyre natural insticts because of us and when the phone became widespread we discardes them , they definitely deserved so much better.
Because they are cliff dwellers and cities are a good analog.
@@dudleyhaines9826 They are indeed cliff dwellers, and even keener on caves. The wild stock that all these urban pigeons descend from is the rock dove, a relatively uncommon bird and they come to our bird table here on Skye in northwest Scotland.
When our governments go full totalitarian and take away our internet we are going to need to catch pigeons to insult eachother.
Excellent video, research and storytelling! I also noticed a few interesting background bird language" situations...at 7:20, wood thrushes and a few other species (maybe robins and titmice?) begin alarming - likely at a raptor stationed nearby.
Excellent observation!
That was very well done. Thank you.
I find this amazing. At the age of 84 I learned something today.
Fascinating video 🕊️
another truly excellent presentation,,,,thx, Rob Currier
Amazing! Thank you.
What impact did the American Carolina parakeet have?
excellent presentation
Killer analysis. It was well defined and reasoned from every angle.
Thanks for watching.
Consider also that this bird since it has not existed on the landscape for some time could potentially act as an invasive species, since associated life forms may have also disappeared with it. Proceed with caution….
That is something interesting to consider but I truly doubt that eastern forests have changed so much in 100 years in terms of the actual species there. Now, I do believe that passenger pigeons could contribute to the spread of invasive species, they could eat there seeds and spread them to their roosting sites.
14:00 Wild mushrooms are what I was expecting to see in this video at some point. 🍄🍄🍣🍣
I live in the Northwest and would to see a video correlating how Passenger Pigeons may have played a huge role in the growth and dispersion of mushroom species. Fungus may very well be the cornerstone of the evolution of all life on our planet.
Another fantastic video!
I'm still amazed at how interconnected life is.
🤯🤔Incredible. Thank you! 🌲💚🌳🐦
Well done Adam!.......your videos are the best....thank you.....I really enjoy your lifetime mushroom course.....
Interesting! Many thanks 👏👏
I hope science brings them back.
This is definitely one of my favorite videos! Thank you for this valuable information 😊 I do wonder sometimes, how 'they' know that something has gone extinct for sure, because once in a while, you see an article of scientists spotting something in the wild that had been thought extinct for a long time😊🤔
Best to keep a beautiful secret.☀️👩🌾
@@loboalamo Omgosh!! Absolutely 😁💖💖
Yes🤫😎🕊
In the case of Ohio, the two extinct bird species are distinctive enough that you'd notice them if you saw one. Plus, you need at least 1000 individuals to maintain a population, or there will eventually be dangerous levels of inbreeding.
We never appreciate just how interdependent is the web of life and how any disruption has far reaching repercussions.
I wonder what affect the mammoths did to the forests and if they kept the passenger pigeons numbers in check.
Great video- would appreciate more videos about the devastating loss of our native species and the destruction caused by the introduced and invasive ones. I live in WI and wonder if some of my old trees remember the passenger pigeons...
Cool vid great job man
I have to say well done!
good report
Apparently, there are no known recordings of the sounds they made, but "The noise produced by flocks of passenger pigeons was described as deafening, audible for miles away, and the bird's voice as loud, harsh, and unmusical. It was also described by some as clucks, twittering, and cooing, and as a series of low notes, instead of an actual song."
Nicely presented...btw, we ate pigeons like crazy while living in Texas...just like dove, just larger...
A keystone species, one that should definitely be considered to be brought back
Extremely interesting, and also worth pointin out that some researchers believe that the prevalence of white oaks may have also been faciliated by large grazers, bison especially. This is partly based on the observation that European white oaks thrive in grazed ecosystems, and that through conservation grazing, oak regeneration failure can be reversed. In any case, it is fascinating to contemplate how animals might have in the past influenced and altered their habitats!
Interesting video my friend.
Around 1830 author Fenimore Cooper wrote a story about a family that began randomly shooting at a passenger pigeon flock, killing more than they could eat, only to be scolded by an elder who shamed them for their heedless way of killing that involved none of the skills of hunting. It was pretty prophetic in the sense that this manner of "hunting" was what pretty much wiped out bison as well, and probably a few other species we could name.
All life is truely precious. What a tragic ending of an incredible species. Martha and her ancestors will never be forgotten!
You know that if those Passenger Pigeons were still around today it would be near to impossible to travel to North America by Airplane, Now coming to think maybe their sudden extinction around the time that they did wasn’t a coincidence after all 🤔
I wonder if, as these flew around and excreted dung, that the pattern of the accumulated dung can be preserved in the depository record. We could see if these patterns of dispersal was changing over time since the ice age. To see if they went certain directions as forests started taking root and growing after the ice was gone. How did they manage to eat these nuts? They aren’t really equipped to cracking open nuts, are they? Were they in a symbiotic relationship with squirrels or something that could chew upon these nuts and then the birds would swoop in and eat the cracked open nuts? How did the extinction of these birds affect the populations of squirrels? Did their numbers increase or decrease after the pigeon went extinct?
Wow! That was eye opening. As a child we traveled a lot and lived in a few countries and states. But now that I am older and raised children of my own I have watched people grow old and children grow up, communities grow including the ecological community system.
You just put everything into context!
On my acres, my personal ecosystem, because I neglect my acreage, it has become filled with life I have no desire to disturb. The things that grow here and bird species I have never seen or heard brighten my life as much as my children do.
I really enjoy your channel.
Failure to manage does not equate to success, especially in hardwood forests.
Cultivation (water management) and forest management are important for ecosystems of savannas and hardwood forests.