Why Clawless Hollow Knight is Finally Possible (with downpatching)
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- After 5 years since the game released and a year since the first run, clawless Hollow Knight is finally here, and it's one of the craziest Hollow Knight challenge runs ever...
All clips were used with permission from the owners
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Hey everyone! I should be back to making videos again regularly. I took a small break because of burnout on Hollow Knight and I got distracted playing other games :)
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Do you think shriek is a possible alternative that might give better results in climbing spire. (I'm a bit to busy to test it myself but if someone sees this feel free to respond with what it is I'm missing).
stop playing stardew and make videos :grimmgun:
@@BombsanTheCommenter how would shriek help?
@@FIREOWLHK well shriek would allow the spell to be higher in the tunnel. Which lets us get higher (probably not much extra but still)
EDIT: By shriek I mean the shade's abyss one
@@BombsanTheCommenter It doesn't get far enough to the side. Fireballs work well for a lot of skips due to it allowing you to pogo something far outside the circle the shade can go without despawning.
This category is designed by us, so we make the rules, I feel like it's part of the challenge to be able to play both versions but you should be limited to switching once per run. I'm personally all for downpatch strats if it gives us this final opportunity. (Although I suspect at this rate someone will find another skip which doesn't require downpatching.
agreed with your general point about how the ones designing (and playing) the category should make the rules (presumably in a way they find the most fun?) , though I'd personally sorta disagree on patch switch only being allowed once per run, as once it's been use once using it again doesn't seem like too big a deal.
though my disagreement on it is only a sorta as it wouldn't be necessary to change the patch twice or more for this run, and part of the fun of the run is probably seeing how far one can get while lowering the number/extremeness of exploits they use (or well I'd assume that's part of it based off of how they didn't just any major glitches like float/no-clip to skip the seemingly necessary wallclings)
@@phee4174 The only ones running this category are gonna be TASes anyways
Yeah but it's kinda boring to specifically design the rules to allow it to be possible, rather than working within the limitations of the game. To me, downpatching is basically using an external tool to change which game you're playing in the middle of a run.
@@lunafoxfire To be fair, clawless archives isn't possible without an external tool either. Getting a core down there is only possible for TAS and not humans, otherwise using a core to kill Uumuu would be in the regular runs as well.
Well you can shriek pogo now
I would rather live in a world where you can beat the game with four wall clings rather than using heavy blow
that charm having a use would be a heavy blow to the community
Literally now the best charm in game
lMaO
Unironically I bet it's the least used charm ever
Besterest than "Icky" Compass charm
Honestly, even if downpatching isn't allowed, the fact that this is even possible in spirit is a massive achievement
Mantis claw is now an optional movement upgrade, like isma's tear. Never thought I'd see the day that seemingly THE most required ability became theoretically optional
You need either isma or claw+CD
This was a really neat challenge. Nice work to everyone who discovered all this stuff!
Omg it’s skurry
Now do a no claw run
@@bruz_ he has to
Looking forward to your clawless run!
@@ethanstackhouse7274 Skurry uses they/them pronouns by the way :)
The heavy blow part is exactly why i say that every charm has a use, even if its in a very, very specific challange, it can be the savior you need, prove me wrong.
Now compass is the most useless charm. At least once you know the game, otherwise it's almost essential.
So it goes from a near mandatory charm to a literally useless charm because you know the map like the back of your hand.
Unless the compass can be used for some sort of game breaking glitch, but I highly doubt it.
@@jacobesterson what are you talking about? Compass is the most OP and the best charm in the game!
@@jacobesterson The compass is still very useful even if you know the game a lot, so you know how close or far you are from somewhere, and as you said, its very useful for first playthoughs, which makes it pretty decent, also it can make you one shot radiance because of the power of mapping
@@SSP2056 👏compass👏memes👏are👏not👏funny👏
I dare you to find a situation where deep focus is the most optimal charm for 4 notches
i'm pretty sure the heavy blow herrah was actually known beforehand; i remember someone saying something of the sort. but you'd need to ask someone who's more active in the community for details
also the watcher rooms are merged in any version before 1.3, not just 1221
THERE IS NO WAY YOU MADE HEAVY BLOW USEFUL THAT'S NUTS
As someone that played max% clawless for a long time, this is incredible
What is a max%? Sorry but I am not particularly familiar with speedrunning terminology
@@SSP2056 I don't know it directly, but i assume it's getting the max amount of game percentage with no claws
@@SSP2056max% means "achieving *most* amount of game completion possible". its almost always paired with a restriction that makes it impossible to achieve 100% completion (otherwise it wouldnt make much sense to use the term "max%" instead of "100%")
so, max% clawless means "achieve the most amount of game completion possible without getting mantis claw"
The goal of hollow knight without claw is, to beat hollow knight without ever picking up the claw item (and without major glitches) so, did we do it ? Well, yes, you can beat the game without ever picking up claw, and that is all that matters, the fact that we changed the path doesn’t matter, we did not pick up claw, that’s it
Since so many of the strats involve very specific if not TAS-only movement, I really hope that a TASer will try to make a clawless HK run a reality! I know it takes an absurd amount of effort but we can only hope and imagine (":
TASing a downpatch, would be interesting to see.
@@apotato4873 It just needs a script (maybe outside the TAS tool?) that can 1) detect when the first half of the TAS closes the game and/or be run by the TAS tools when closing the game, 2) do whatever file shenanigans are needed to transfer the save to a second, downpatched copy of the game, and 3) start the second copy and trigger the rest of the TAS. I don’t know enough about the TAS tools for HK to say exactly how to do it, but in the worst case you make something like an AutoHotkey script that literally moves the mouse / presses keys to do all the needed things. The tools exist, we’re just waiting on someone to decide they want to spend the time and effort to actually put it all together.
@@Lino-ty5hv Of course it’s possible, but it’s just that I have never seen someone do something like that.
I can't help but read that as taser lol
I just hope people keep exploring the limits of what is possible in hollowknight, I love your videos keep it up!
I would say yes, absolutely downpatching should be allowed in this case. We make the rules for each category, and ultimately this is all just for fun, so if a zero wall cling run needs downpatching (at least currently), then there should at least be a category for it, with maybe a separate minimal wall cling category for single patch runs.
I just love this comunity. Everyone was working on this as if they were scientist or something. Like every discovery is takes time, needs everyones cooperation etc. This is just amazing.
I just have less than 1 year playing hollow knight and im still surprised of the community.
They are one of the most persevering people I've ever seen for not saying the most, Congratulations for you guys.
Oh no, they knew... that's why Heavy Blow exists!
holy shit a good use for heavy blow no way, this run is so creative and insane, great job for everyone who contributed to this!
This is the best fire owl video of all time all of this dedication for the past year to finally beat HK with no wall clings
Also elderbug wasnt even in the video
BUT heavy blow was
Everyone gansta till they realize that you need to downpatch mid-run
Jokes aside though, it's not a game anymore, it's a science. Personally I wouldn't consider this challenge as fully completed until there is no downpatching mid-run, but this is still extremely cool to me nonetheless. Great job and congrats to everyone who took part in helping this absolutely amazing feat become reality :D
Also, about the Ooma skip, I want to see it happen but I don't want you to do it because you'll probably lose your sanity XD
fire owl back at it again with a banger, thank you for your contribution to the hollow knight content creator team its really appreciated, keep it up ❤️
I love it when people do games in ways that weren't intended!
Really awesome discoveries! I love seeing people slowly chip away at these kinds of challenges!
The stallball skip is an extremely revolutionary one, it can also help in Isma Tear skips (fall down, dash slash, double jump, fireball onto the diagonal hit box and pogo) Fire you’re legend
UA-cam couldn’t handle another clawless video
youtube is out to get me ;(
I'd think that the argument surrounding downpatching would be a moot point, if the ooma skip in the teacher's archives requires a TAS to perform.
yo more epic fireowl content!
gl on the TAS strat grind
Hello
Thank you for this video and all the videos like it that explain clearly a phenomenon in hk. It really helps and I always find them all interesting!
This is an incredible achievement and everyone involved in making it happen should be proud.
As far as my opinion goes: it's a challenge run, so the down patching doesn't feel like a huge issue. And as is stated in the video, the point is to see if it's at all possible to beat the game without claw. But I get more hung up on the E Pogo for Monomon. Again, I get that you just want to know if it's even possible to beat the game clawless--and in this case, you answer that question--but I don't feel good about including a TAS only strat in a run like this. Yes, it satisfies the initial curiosity, but until humans are actually doing a strat that insane, it's hard to say that the skip is viable.
Either way, this was a great watch. Thanks for your time and commitment to the idea.
This is what I like about Hollow Knight. You can probably find out how to do anything you set your mind to. If you want to beat the game without the most vital ability, you’re only a few major discoveries away
Genuinly suprised you only have 6k subscribers, keep up the good work!
I think that since this is a challenge run and not a speed run, and like you said, it doesn't involve any "major" glitches, this is a viable run and clawless Hollow Knight is possible.
In my opinion it absolutely counts. The goal here is a challenge run with no claw. If you can beat the game NMG without claw, we've found a route. The route probably could see lots more improvements, (not to mention... archives...) but the fact that we can at all is amazing.
Now I just really want to see what the full routing for this would be!
Trying the TAS only archives strat is pure insanity. But it would be pretty awesome if you pulled it off!
Always happy when you upload a new video. Your videos are so satisfying to watch
this is by far one of the most interesting videos i have ever watched, and quite possibly the coolest challenge run imo. this community is amazing
This is crazy. I hope it can someday be done, but I hope nobody goes insane trying to do a skip that's currently only doable by a TAS. I would say the downpatching should be allowed, since the point of the run is primarily to have fun, but I also think it's worth looking for a solution that doesn't require downpatching mid-run.
Heavy blow now has a very specific niche in this one singular run at this very moment in beast’s den, let’s go
I'm so gonna lose my mind if anyone actually gets the archives skip. But it's already so amazing clawless is finally possible
i was practicing it a bit earlier. with enough practice it seems doable
@@FIREOWLHK hope someone finally gets it, it must be scary to have to maneuver the bomb around though XD. Unlike a TAS
@@bloomenvogel the scare factor of the cores go away after the first few attempts lol. the hard part comes in replicating the same movement each time to try and get the core as far as possible
@@FIREOWLHK Yeah I was gonna say, can we really say beating the game clawless is possible if one of the skips needed isn't humanly possible?
@@0XBlondie96X0 it’s definitely possible, just not rta viable at the moment
:) I would love to take a shot at this, but I don't have a spare year to play hollow knight so I probably shouldn't. gg on finally getting to the end!
I love these deep investigations into games for arbitrary goals such as these, the dedication is amazing
I wouldn't call it humanly possible because of Ooma core shenanigans, but this is still very cool and I'm glad it's possible in any capacity
well it’s possible just not humanly possible
This is super cool - no matter if you agree with downpatching or not.
Personally, I think downpatching is fine as long as there is no glitch taken advantage of from the downpatch itself (e.g. the savefile not being read properly because of some change in a newer patch). This is completing the run with NMG ruleset and within the game
I would love to see a non-downpatch version of course, as downpatching does make it a little bit "ugly" imo, though that would require a whole new discovery. Seeing this being possible at all is already super amazing.
Daanolav - "They called me a madman"
IMO uppatching should be allowed since that’s a normal thing but downpatching shouldn’t because under normal circumstances it’s impossible but either way it’s still an improvement bc were at 1 wallcling on 1221
Can't believe I had to go so far down to find this, I agree. Patching mid run should be allowed as it is part of normal play, but down patching should not.
This is my farvorite, gamers try their best to reach the edge of the game, it shows your love and passion. Respret to your devotion
Right? WRONG! -Vsauce AND FIRE OWL, now
I think it’s definitely a valid accomplishment, but it would be really nice to see it done all on one version too.
Through all the challenge runs I've seen that had to resort to crazy solutions, none of them used Heavy Blow! Finally, it has at least 1 single use!
I love how incredibly resourceful and outside the box you are ♡
I didn't know ball stall was only possible on a newer patch, I just assumed it was recently discovered, but possible before too. I wonder what they changed in the game that made that happen.
That was a fun a journey to watch, good luck with tackling that TAS only strat! It would be really cool to see someone do a clawless speedrun (even if it may go against speedrunning rules).
From what I know about the rules regarding wcs in nmg, you may only use it to get places that you already can without wcs with the room in its current state.
If the same applies to stallball, then you can do the game clawless but you're still required to pick up the claw in order for it to be nmg. Make it make sense.
the rules don't specify that for stallball
I saw you pop up in the discord and was wondering if it was really you! That’s so cool all these skips [the clawless challenge runner community] discovered, and I’d love to see you manage that core skip in archives manually.
The HK challenge and speedrunners are amazing, with how well you’re all able to keep up with the TAS. Somehow it seems like it might actually be possible.
(Edited for a misspeak)
i definitely did not discover all the skips you see here, most of them were theorized and performed by other people
my main contributions were the beast’s den skip, theory crafting of the lurien skip and deciding to route in wings
@@FIREOWLHK oh!! I misspoke, many apologies! In my head I meant it like a broad “you” inclusive of the challenge community, but that wasn’t at all how I worded it. I’ll edit real quick!
This is incredible, how are humans even capable of this
my verdict is that yes, this challenge is now physically possible. even as a series of clips cut together, it is _possible_ to do. the goal is to beat clawless te, that's it, but whether or not it follows the speedrunning ruleset is a whole separate question. it might not be a legal run, but it's a complete-able one, and i say that's good enough!
I've been fascinated by clawless hollow knight ever since I watched a clawless shade cloak run (the old route that took 2 hours). Seeing this beast of a challenge finally conquered feels surreal. This community is absolutely amazing.
in homothety’s video on csc, he even stated that clawless would never happen. this run has come a long way!
Wow, this is incredible. Fire, would you care if the other fire of this community did a video on this topic? I know it’s a community project but you’ve also kind of covered it yourself.
hmm, if he is interested in covering id say by all means :)
People discovered you can pogo your own abyss shriek in current patch (if I'm not mistaken) so does this mean that you could make it up there? You would have 4 extra jumps (3 from soul and 1 extra from spell twister)
Lets go, thanks to the HK community not giving up on finding this glitch, it has finally happened
this was cool and informative video, also clawless hollow knight finally being possible* is incredibly pog (even if there's a major asterisk on "possible" due to the whole needing to switch to using a tas for one section, and switch near the end to a really broken patch to use a missing screen transition)
fire owl posting a broken video to clickbait viewers with that title is definitely going in my cancelling video:wc2:
in my defense, its not my fault that youtube couldnt handle my amazing video :(
TAS only and with downpatching, but still possible
also your challenge run your rules
I believe there’s also a sentry in a room relatively close to wings (like 2 or 3 transitions away) so depending on how it works, that might be possible.
Simply an incredible journey
It's great to see that a challenge that has been thought impossible for so long got beaten anyway.
I worked on a challenge myself for a different game: the Kleptomania challenge for The Hobbit (2003). It requires you to have all quest items (still) in your inventory when ending each level.
After god knows how much time and research, of the 80 quest items in the game I managed to keep... 78.
And then the trail went cold and has been for some months.
By all accounts, those last 2 should be impossible. But as this video shows: You never know.
Very good video, well done! And congrats to the clawless community
I would say it isn't really done just because of the downpatch. But even then, it stopped being humanly possible with exloplogo in archives
downpatching is a sick strat, I would say it's allowed for a challenge run for sure
When you say there should be a screen transition, do you mean that area should be smaller? I'm trying to figure out why a later patch of the game would have made areas smaller? You would think less transitions between rooms would be the more desirable of the two as it would make things feel more open and cohesive.
Crazy video by the way. The things speedrunners discovers is mind blowing.
a screen transition was added in a later patch for that room for performance reasons
This video single handedly proves people can anything when they put their mind to it
Now I want to go back to theory crafting a way to get monomon without heart or isma's.
I don’t believe it’s humanly possible because of the TAS movement required, but if someone did this I would be amazed
We are gonna need someone to TAS this rn
"theres supposed to be a transition here" me:OOOOOOHHHHH shit youre right!!!! wouldve been more epic if this was voiced and had music to build that part up XD
maybe one day ill use voice, gonna stick to text only for now though
yes i would love to see an RTA of Hollowknight clawless
Clothless Hollow Knight would be interesting to see too.
Skurry: My time has come
well good luck at the archives, if you're motivated, do it
(pog I appeared in a FIRE OWL VIDEO)
anyway, as this is not a speedrun, but a challenge run I think it is 100% allowed, tho this is quite painfull as this may have become a big category
We need a non-TAS run, without any modifications to the original game outside of DLCs to perform these challenges.
Like no claw, no shade cloak etc.
If you need lower fps for longer bounces, try 4K on a GT 710.
I know it's borderline masochist territory even gracing your system with one, but that should rack up around 7 fps at the best of times.
oh i just use an frame rate limiter like rivatuner for fps purposes. works really well
At last, there is not a single ability that is required to beat hollow knight
dream nail
@@FIREOWLHK Wasn't there a version where dream nail wasn't required?
@@gamean5873 Yes, the 1.2.1.1 version. But I don't remember if it was considered a Major Glitch or not
@@gamean5873 its banned under nmg so it doesnt count
@@FIREOWLHK Yeah I guess, but it is still nice to know that it can be done, and without needing to preform a complicated glitch as well
Man, all these skips are so...
off the wall.
There has to be SOMETHING we're still missing
Something...
Something that involves pogoing off of d-dive
Holy shit that might actually work
people have test pogoing off of everything actually. even spore shroom :)
@@FIREOWLHK
what about flukenest? The hitboxes might linger long enough to pogo off of it in TAS or something
@@chaoticglitched tested as well
@@FIREOWLHK well i'm out of ideas :/
Okay great a TAS can reach Monomon clawless.
Now let's see a human do it.
And then do it blindfolded.
This was well done
You guys are completely crazy xD Silksong has to be released now, speedruners want to downpatch during runs
Nevertheless, i would enjoy seeing this run, where you start with the latest patch then you take a break and downpatch (which is long and complicated, trust me) to finish the run
what a great run. and a great channel. you should do a face reveal at 5k subs, or maybe 10k
:PogU:
Congrats!)
And ye, that would be interesting.) 😎
we desperately fucking need silksong oh my god
New favorite video ever alert
I leave social media for one week and come back to this
This is really cool!
Considering one wallcling skip requires TAS to do, I don't think downpatching crosses a line that hasn't already been crossed tbh. Super cool you can beat the game with no wallclings!
Silksong has officially, taken too long.
bruh the fuckin dream callout
watching this fascinating again and I'm wondering if it'd be at all possible to get around either of the dubious wallcling skips (the monomon one rquiring TAS level precision, and the lurien one requiring downpatching) via the use of the newish howling-wraiths pogo skip
Actually for the wings u can do it clawless some people did it, u have to time ur pogo on the small object
@@143creamyy this video was uploaded before that was discovered
Looking forward to seeing you doing subbaton where you attempt to beat Hollow Knight clawless some day.
If you're allowed to down-patch at the *start* of a run, I don't see why it should be any different to down-patch in the middle of a run either.