An overlooked benefit of suspension is it helps prevent damage to the trike. If you hit a bump the suspension can absorb the jar instead of the trike frame or the components on the trike.
The neighborhood where I ride is like off road and even with a full suspension Dumont ECat I'm still getting bounced around quite a bit, I agree if all I rode were nice smooth bike paths then no suspension would be fine. So know where you are going to do most of your riding before deciding on a trike. Keep the videos coming , they are very informative.
My first machine was the old version Catrike Road! It had a rear shock. I absolutely loved that trike❤ ... Yet the rear shock which was adjustable: Worthless! They upgraded that style Road putting suspension on all 3 wheels, and quickly dumped that version and brought out Dumont. After playing with the 700 which was not suspended - I got a tiny - unsuspended Pocket and absolutely love it! It was fun talking about, but for hard- surfaced trails? Suspension for me sucks ....
I have one with and without rear suspension. The one with rear suspension rides way more comfortable even on good roads. I am now working on a trike with also front suspension. This because i have a quad that has full independent suspension. Comfort is way better but also no more back pain als you hit a puthole or something.
I've never thought about a suspension system on my ClubSport. I'm disabled and one of the first considerations I have when adding to the trike is weight. Another is setup and maintenance. I don't want nor need more items on my ride-ability checklist.
Why would people be lifting their trike in and out of their car? Why not just ride it? A suspension trike will be heavier. And a folder will be heavier... You can higher or lower your tire pressure to get more suspension if you need it...yes you might want to drive some where with your trike, but I think most the time you don't need to carry your trike any where, just pedal it...
try to go over bumps by taking your back off the back rest and leaning forward. this keeps your weight between the wheels as it goes over the bumps. it lets the trike pivot under you(like standing on your pedals in an upright bike). leaning back into the rest and lifting your bottom off the seat(what i used to do the first few times on the trike as i went over bumps) will make you feel the bump more as there's more weight over the rear tire.
My '07 ICE Trice T has a rear elastomer suspension (it came with the used trike) and it's nice. My TerraTrike e-assist Gran Tourismo has no suspension and there is a difference but it's not a problem. Most of my riding is on paved trails or roads and the few bumps are not a bother. On my Dream Trike I'd go a minimal rear suspension only. Both Trikes have Schwalbe Marathons at 45 to 50psi. These short info-videos are great.
my first trike is a kmx cobra without suspension. is great at speed, really low seat and so on. end of 2023 i ordered a ti fly x with full suspension. it's like riding on a cloud. i have back pain often, so not feeling a flash striking my back every street hole made me ride every free minute at good weather. it was very expensive, saved money a very long time. but hey, you only buy this once a lifetime and it will get my from my 40s to my 70s or 80s.
I've had both suspension trikes and rigid trikes ... rear suspension only and full front and rear suspension. On my rigid (unsuspended) Catrike, the difference is day and night. The rigid trike transmits all the road irregularities right into my body, and if my neck is against the neckrest, it's even worse (chip seal roads are horrible on a rigid trike). Rear suspension is a huge plus compared to rigid, and then the next step of front and rear suspension is even better. Having had them all, and ridden each type a few thousand miles, in my opinion suspension is a real game changer for anyone who only has experience on an unsuspended rigid trike. I have heard a number of trikers provide this or that reason for not needing suspension, but based on my personal experience, such arguments ring hollow, and I often wonder if the price point for rigid trikes plays into the equation, seeing as how rigid trikes are considerably less costly. steve
Seat padding and headrests do not replace suspension. However, I did not have the extra cheddar for suspension, so I wrapped foam pipe insulation on the seat frame sides, slipped a 1 inch pad in the seat, and built a headrest. It works, even when you manage to straddle those New England potholes with the two lead tires. And forget the trailing tire. 😆
I had suspension on an upright bike once, and never noticed any serious difference between it and my bike that did not have suspension. As a road rider, I'm not going fast enough to make it worth the extra expense. I enjoy feeling the road when I trike around. Also, with my e-assist, the thing weighs in a ton as it is, so I don't need the extra weight for an accessory that really gives me nothing but a higher price tag.
I bungee an old couch pillow to the top of the seat back. Very comfortable upper shoulder and neck support that doesn't beat me to death. Plus, it makes taking those mid-ride naps comfortable.
Great advice. Most folks ride paved streets or trails only. Those surfaces are just fine. Gods Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires are awesome , comfortable, puncture resistant and last forever. My Catrike 559 with over 20,000 miles on it soooo comfy …it’s a Dumont without suspension leaving me $800 extra in my pocket.
Your videos are SO helpful to people who are just getting into trikes, even for high milage upright bike (tandem) riders like us. But as I commented after one of your previous videos, there is a big seemingly undiscovered market in selling e-trikes to experienced riders who will want them just because with an "e", they are a pleasure to ride.
I really enjoy your videos, Mickey. You have a very affable style and are very clear, complete, and informative. Your enjoyment with what you do is also evident. Nice work!
I put some Schwalbe Marathon 1.75 inch tires, 50PSI on to replace 1.5 80 PSI on my GreenSpeed GT20. Very nice improvement in comfort. The derailer cage gets very close to the tire in lower gears, I may get an internal gear hub and some bigger tires. Thanks for the video, like you said most of the bike trails I ride on are relatively smooth.
@LaidBackCycles Interesting, I had the Scorcher 1.5" but I kept getting flats, not sure if it was the tire or the tube. So I went to the Schwalbe tires and tubes and Velox rim tape, after 500+ miles and no flats:)
@LaidBackCycles Dished wheel, cool, I didn't know you could do that. Thank you! I was looking at seeing if I could get a smaller derailleur cage or maybe internal hub but the dished wheel sounds worth investigating.
It is a misconception that narrow tires are faster than fat tires. The reason why road bikes don't have really wide tires is because of wind resistance at 35+ kmh and weight. But wider tires at lower pressure actually roll a lot better. Depends on the tire design too of course. Thread says nothing. It's much more the compound and walls. A skinny Schwalbe Kojak at 6 bar is slower than for example a 2.15" Big Apple folding at only 3 bar. And that is just on smooth asphalt. Fastest tires with puncture protection are Scorcher, and 2" GoCycle. I have the GoCycles and they are fast, very comfortable, and have super grip even in winter. But it will be hard to order them in the USA. The blue Michelins are faster still. But those are only made for the Solar Races and cost a fortune. Manufacturers don't really test their tires. They make them look appealing. Look for Wim Schermer's blog for real tests. So wider tires make sense. Maybe on a long uphill at 5kmh a lighter skinny tire is a couple seconds faster? But overall fatter tires win. Especially if they are folding, have thin walls, and good quality compound.
Agree, but people underestimate tire-specific wind resistance. The top of the tire is going 2x your groundspeed. Wind resistance is proportional to square of velocity, so fat knobby tires really do start to drag. That said, I love the knobby 2.35" tires I use.
I've been waffling between a Catrike Dumont or a Catrike 559. The 559 is like $1,200 less. I don't dirt ride, and while my town's roads are not the best, they're not horrible. Too bad my town doesn't have a dealer with trikes in stock.
@@LaidBackCycles I've already got a Bafang motor looking for a new home. (Turns out putting a mid-drive motor on a short wheelbase two-wheeled recumbent is a really bad idea.)
Well I maybe don’t NEED suspension, but after test riding several trikes and then planting my butt in a Catrike Dumont, I needed suspension. If the roads in area were smoother I wouldn’t care if I had suspension, but a lot of, most of, the roads I ride on are very rough, almost as bad as cobble stone in some areas, suspension is what sold the me on the Catrike Dumont. If hadn’t rode a Dumont, I probably would have bought a Catrike 700 or 559. And I test rode trikes with electric motors, which are very fun to ride, but my butt really likes suspension. 😎
Its not as much discouraging as is it recommending the benefits of a motor. The majority of trike riders prefer a power assist trike over a non assist. But I say do whichever one you like as long as you get out and ride :)
Easy for you to say, in Sac, with nice, smooth trails. Not necessarily the case elsewhere, like Sonoma County. If you need suspension, tires are not a substitute, in my experience.
Obviously, you have never ridden or driven in New Orleans. We have the worst roads, for paved roads, anywhere. What with the pot (sink) holes, cobbles, old streetcar tracks, and torn up streets, it is a rough ride. I just got my first trike (a first gen Gekko), and it is a bone shaker.
This made me think why don't car and motorcycle makers just use lower pressure tires and throw out suspension completely, they already have headrests... Even the F1 and super sporty muscle cars which have perfect surface to drive on have suspension... It's not just about comfort, it's about control over steering and handling behavior.
Spinal arthritis on gravel. Yeah I have suspension.
Sweet! Suspension on dirt and gravel does make a difference ::)
An overlooked benefit of suspension is it helps prevent damage to the trike. If you hit a bump the suspension can absorb the jar instead of the trike frame or the components on the trike.
That's a good point.
Most definitely felt the difference without suspension on test rides. Its an absolute necessity for me.
Nice! Glad suspension made a difference.
The neighborhood where I ride is like off road and even with a full suspension Dumont ECat I'm still getting bounced around quite a bit, I agree if all I rode were nice smooth bike paths then no suspension would be fine. So know where you are going to do most of your riding before deciding on a trike. Keep the videos coming , they are very informative.
I have to disagree, I tried both of HP Velotechnic and the ride comfort difference was very marked for me. I bought the suspension.
ICE, HP, Catrike, and Azub all make great suspension trikes. But if you already have a trike without, there's still some good comfort solutions.
No disputing your suggestions for a more comfortable ride for non suspended trikes, they are good advice.
My first machine was the old version Catrike Road! It had a rear shock. I absolutely loved that trike❤ ... Yet the rear shock which was adjustable: Worthless! They upgraded that style Road putting suspension on all 3 wheels, and quickly dumped that version and brought out Dumont. After playing with the 700 which was not suspended - I got a tiny - unsuspended Pocket and absolutely love it! It was fun talking about, but for hard- surfaced trails? Suspension for me sucks ....
I have one with and without rear suspension. The one with rear suspension rides way more comfortable even on good roads.
I am now working on a trike with also front suspension.
This because i have a quad that has full independent suspension.
Comfort is way better but also no more back pain als you hit a puthole or something.
I've never thought about a suspension system on my ClubSport. I'm disabled and one of the first considerations I have when adding to the trike is weight. Another is setup and maintenance. I don't want nor need more items on my ride-ability checklist.
Why would people be lifting their trike in and out of their car? Why not just ride it? A suspension trike will be heavier. And a folder will be heavier... You can higher or lower your tire pressure to get more suspension if you need it...yes you might want to drive some where with your trike, but I think most the time you don't need to carry your trike any where, just pedal it...
try to go over bumps by taking your back off the back rest and leaning forward. this keeps your weight between the wheels as it goes over the bumps. it lets the trike pivot under you(like standing on your pedals in an upright bike). leaning back into the rest and lifting your bottom off the seat(what i used to do the first few times on the trike as i went over bumps) will make you feel the bump more as there's more weight over the rear tire.
I’m going to try that on my next ride going over the railroad tracks.
My '07 ICE Trice T has a rear elastomer suspension (it came with the used trike) and it's nice. My TerraTrike e-assist Gran Tourismo has no suspension and there is a difference but it's not a problem. Most of my riding is on paved trails or roads and the few bumps are not a bother. On my Dream Trike I'd go a minimal rear suspension only. Both Trikes have Schwalbe Marathons at 45 to 50psi. These short info-videos are great.
my first trike is a kmx cobra without suspension. is great at speed, really low seat and so on.
end of 2023 i ordered a ti fly x with full suspension. it's like riding on a cloud. i have back pain often, so not feeling a flash striking my back every street hole made me ride every free minute at good weather. it was very expensive, saved money a very long time. but hey, you only buy this once a lifetime and it will get my from my 40s to my 70s or 80s.
Beautiful trike. Glad you are loving it :)
Hi Mickey, I have a Dumont because of the suspension. I didn't like the jarring I got from my recumbent bike. Thanks for the tips about the tires etc.
The Dumont is a great trike!
I've had both suspension trikes and rigid trikes ... rear suspension only and full front and rear suspension. On my rigid (unsuspended) Catrike, the difference is day and night. The rigid trike transmits all the road irregularities right into my body, and if my neck is against the neckrest, it's even worse (chip seal roads are horrible on a rigid trike). Rear suspension is a huge plus compared to rigid, and then the next step of front and rear suspension is even better. Having had them all, and ridden each type a few thousand miles, in my opinion suspension is a real game changer for anyone who only has experience on an unsuspended rigid trike. I have heard a number of trikers provide this or that reason for not needing suspension, but based on my personal experience, such arguments ring hollow, and I often wonder if the price point for rigid trikes plays into the equation, seeing as how rigid trikes are considerably less costly.
steve
Seat padding and headrests do not replace suspension. However, I did not have the extra cheddar for suspension, so I wrapped foam pipe insulation on the seat frame sides, slipped a 1 inch pad in the seat, and built a headrest. It works, even when you manage to straddle those New England potholes with the two lead tires. And forget the trailing tire. 😆
Direct replacement? No. But are there ways to not get suspension and still increase comfort? Absolutely!
I had suspension on an upright bike once, and never noticed any serious difference between it and my bike that did not have suspension. As a road rider, I'm not going fast enough to make it worth the extra expense. I enjoy feeling the road when I trike around. Also, with my e-assist, the thing weighs in a ton as it is, so I don't need the extra weight for an accessory that really gives me nothing but a higher price tag.
I bungee an old couch pillow to the top of the seat back. Very comfortable upper shoulder and neck support that doesn't beat me to death. Plus, it makes taking those mid-ride naps comfortable.
Great advice. Most folks ride paved streets or trails only. Those surfaces are just fine. Gods Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires are awesome , comfortable, puncture resistant and last forever. My Catrike 559 with over 20,000 miles on it soooo comfy …it’s a Dumont without suspension leaving me $800 extra in my pocket.
Schwalbe makes some great tires. We are big fans of the Marathon Plus and Big Ben Plus tires.
Your videos are SO helpful to people who are just getting into trikes, even for high milage upright bike (tandem) riders like us. But as I commented after one of your previous videos, there is a big seemingly undiscovered market in selling e-trikes to experienced riders who will want them just because with an "e", they are a pleasure to ride.
Try, because the roads are on bad shape. Potholes are not funny.
The Stein Wild One eats up potholes for lunch. I enjoyed testing one out for a week :)
@@LaidBackCycles well, it would fo very well in the UK. For the roads around her, try a 4x4!
@@LaidBackCyclesI have a unsispension electric reverse trike.
I really enjoy your videos, Mickey. You have a very affable style and are very clear, complete, and informative. Your enjoyment with what you do is also evident. Nice work!
Thank you so much! We love what we do and who we serve. The videos are fun to do :)
For me it's whole body pain. I wish I could afford a suspension trike
Suspension is nice, but hopefully you can make your rigid trike feel more comfortable with a few of these tweaks. Happy riding!
I put some Schwalbe Marathon 1.75 inch tires, 50PSI on to replace 1.5 80 PSI on my GreenSpeed GT20. Very nice improvement in comfort. The derailer cage gets very close to the tire in lower gears, I may get an internal gear hub and some bigger tires. Thanks for the video, like you said most of the bike trails I ride on are relatively smooth.
The GT20 is a great trike. Greenspeed also makes a Scorcher Tire - 20″ x 2.25″, the wheel would have to be dished to fit it though.
@LaidBackCycles Interesting, I had the Scorcher 1.5" but I kept getting flats, not sure if it was the tire or the tube. So I went to the Schwalbe tires and tubes and Velox rim tape, after 500+ miles and no flats:)
@LaidBackCycles Dished wheel, cool, I didn't know you could do that. Thank you! I was looking at seeing if I could get a smaller derailleur cage or maybe internal hub but the dished wheel sounds worth investigating.
It is a misconception that narrow tires are faster than fat tires. The reason why road bikes don't have really wide tires is because of wind resistance at 35+ kmh and weight.
But wider tires at lower pressure actually roll a lot better. Depends on the tire design too of course. Thread says nothing. It's much more the compound and walls. A skinny Schwalbe Kojak at 6 bar is slower than for example a 2.15" Big Apple folding at only 3 bar. And that is just on smooth asphalt.
Fastest tires with puncture protection are Scorcher, and 2" GoCycle. I have the GoCycles and they are fast, very comfortable, and have super grip even in winter. But it will be hard to order them in the USA. The blue Michelins are faster still. But those are only made for the Solar Races and cost a fortune.
Manufacturers don't really test their tires. They make them look appealing. Look for Wim Schermer's blog for real tests.
So wider tires make sense. Maybe on a long uphill at 5kmh a lighter skinny tire is a couple seconds faster? But overall fatter tires win. Especially if they are folding, have thin walls, and good quality compound.
Agree, but people underestimate tire-specific wind resistance. The top of the tire is going 2x your groundspeed. Wind resistance is proportional to square of velocity, so fat knobby tires really do start to drag.
That said, I love the knobby 2.35" tires I use.
I've been waffling between a Catrike Dumont or a Catrike 559. The 559 is like $1,200 less. I don't dirt ride, and while my town's roads are not the best, they're not horrible. Too bad my town doesn't have a dealer with trikes in stock.
Ask you dealer to get both trikes in to try out, they may just do it. Also, try out the eCat to see if you want a motor with it.
@@LaidBackCycles I've already got a Bafang motor looking for a new home. (Turns out putting a mid-drive motor on a short wheelbase two-wheeled recumbent is a really bad idea.)
Well I maybe don’t NEED suspension, but after test riding several trikes and then planting my butt in a Catrike Dumont, I needed suspension. If the roads in area were smoother I wouldn’t care if I had suspension, but a lot of, most of, the roads I ride on are very rough, almost as bad as cobble stone in some areas, suspension is what sold the me on the Catrike Dumont. If hadn’t rode a Dumont, I probably would have bought a Catrike 700 or 559. And I test rode trikes with electric motors, which are very fun to ride, but my butt really likes suspension. 😎
The Dumont is a great trike! Glad you're enjoying it :)
@@LaidBackCycles it has put the fun back into biking. 😎
Does the catrike head rest work on a terratrike?
No, but you can get a Finer Recliner headrest for the Terratrike.
A Bafang e assist is great
Yes, Bafang makes a wide range of motors. I like their true mid drive motors that you can find on nicer electric bikes.
It kind of seem like recumbent trike dealers are discouraging people from purchasing non-motorized trikes.
Its not as much discouraging as is it recommending the benefits of a motor. The majority of trike riders prefer a power assist trike over a non assist. But I say do whichever one you like as long as you get out and ride :)
Easy for you to say, in Sac, with nice, smooth trails. Not necessarily the case elsewhere, like Sonoma County. If you need suspension, tires are not a substitute, in my experience.
My 2 favorite trikes with suspension are the Catrike Dumont and the ICE Sprint X.
Obviously, you have never ridden or driven in New Orleans. We have the worst roads, for paved roads, anywhere. What with the pot (sink) holes, cobbles, old streetcar tracks, and torn up streets, it is a rough ride. I just got my first trike (a first gen Gekko), and it is a bone shaker.
Good to know. You may want to check out @SteinTrikes I love their 4 inches of suspension travel.
This made me think why don't car and motorcycle makers just use lower pressure tires and throw out suspension completely, they already have headrests... Even the F1 and super sporty muscle cars which have perfect surface to drive on have suspension... It's not just about comfort, it's about control over steering and handling behavior.
Totally get it. Great thought!
Max Verstappen doesn't have to pedal his F1 car up a mountain.