Sadly the response most Sheikhs have to the Muslim marriage crisis is to simply double down on the very unrealistic religious & cultural standards and expectations that are causing the problems.
i married an inconsistent muslim female, i loved her dearly, after losing my faith and isolating myself her family pressured and forced her to do the khula, the entire situation caused great grief to me as losing my faith meant losing her, even though she quite clearly demonstrated inconsistent beliefs and a very surface level understanding of the religion. we are still in contact to this day, but she believes that re doing an Islamic marriage and trying to follow those traditions again is our ONLY solution. I'm at the point of giving up and moving on entirely, as the impact on my ability to lead a productive and peaceful life has all but been destroyed through enduring this challenge, peace to you HR and AA, i listen to you guys often and shared your videos to my love to help her understand the logic of my theological and ideological stance. (or lack thereof)
Yeah, I'm a closeted exMuslim, and I've actively avoided getting into a relationship with any Muslim because of the complications involved. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone on false pretenses. Heck, I even keep my Muslim friends at arms length now, because of the mask I'm forced to wear around them.
People have weird hypocricies. All of them, not just Muslims. Christians, Jews. I'm an atheist ex-Muslim, but there's plenty of good Muslims who believe in the most shallow sense, being closer to agnostic. Instinctively turning your back on people isn't a great way to go through life.
I agree. The cognitive dissonance is not worth it. I'm currently unable to cut off family and friends but in the process of getting my own apartment. I can't wait to live an authentic life of my own.
Wow is this video a sign from god? Just now, literally an hour ago I've made a decision to end a long relationship cause of our different views on religion and kids. Your video is saving me from feeling miserable right now
Girl that was me 6 months ago. Leaving him didn't feel good, but I was feeling way worse ruminating about our future together. You're doing the right thing. Marrying and having children with him is gonna become the worst mistake you've ever made in your entire life. Be strong!
@@nevergiveup9937I regret marrying someone on this pretense everyday! I didn't realize it was non-negotiable for her, no matter how much she had to lie! Deception is dangerous in a relationship!
@@nevergiveup9937 Thank you for your kind words, I appreciate it 🥺 It was mostly fine between us (aside from occasional arguments about religion), but he recently admitted he lied about being okay with not having kids. He actually wants many but assumed I’d change my mind. That showed me he never took my words seriously, which was the deciding factor for me… Yet, I still feel bad and unsure about it all
Ohh my gosh, i remember getting into a relationship as a closeted ex muslim with a muslim when i was 14/15. He seemed to be okay with the athiest part but then i eavesdropped on a conversation where he told his friends he knew exactly how to bring me back to my deen, and made these wild claims about how he was going to force me to leave school after i finished my igcse's so he could shape me into his perfect wife. Bro was planning to approach my parents with the plan, including outing me so they'd be more compelled to leave my education unfinished
I was in a relationship with a hypocritical moderate muslim for a year and he broke the rules allllll the time (sex, missing prayer, lying esp to parents, etc). But he would turn around and critique non muslims or other muslims straying from the religion. No matter how hard I tried, he never recognised the hypocrisy...
I knew the marriage rules of Islam. Even as a Muslim I knew i can't be a good wife according to Islam and its only gonna increase my chance to hell so i thought I won't get married in this world. My plan was getting married to a angel in jannah lol
Same lol . The rules are very strict and almost sound dehumanizing, like one mistake from the wife and all her honor and past achievements are thrown out into the trash and she can go to hell
This reminds me to the time I dated a Catholic guy, you said something about 'moderate" religious people being in an unstable state and that's exactly how it felt. We only dated for a short time and the entire time he made me miserable, switching between love bombing and accusing me of attracting him despite him being straight (I'm trans and he was very insecure). After he asked ME out. On the bright side I'm glad I broke it off early. About seven years later I'm happily married to an atheist.
Man I'm gonna vent. I'm in a relationship with a south Asian girl. I'm from a Christian bg but now just identify as an agnostic. My girlfriend of 3 years now and friend for way longer comes from an islamic background. Adapting to the cultural expectations gives me the worst case of culture shock because the entire immediate family is basically moderate muslims. Apparently the family likes me enough because I present to keep me at an arms length. It's quite literally soul draining and i can't even begin to explain how much drama it causes...
My older sister married a Muslim man, she was so in love with him that we were surprised by the strange changes after the marriage, she was no longer wore makeup, no longer wore jeans, and yet he said he was moderate.
@@scificyber lol are you moderate too cz anything that magnifies woman's beauty isn't allowed in Islam, including makeup n jeans, not outside at least.
This is so painful to watch, since I was in a relationship with a 'moderate muslim' myself. During the war in Gaza, he became so much more consistent, eventually leading us to break up. And it still hurts so much, because our love was so strong :( I have tried so many times to discuss everything with him with an open mind, but he was always afraid to answer my questions and unwilling to have discussions about his faith.. I think fear of hell was the biggest factor.
I dated a muslim once... I think. He was never clear on if he believes/practiced or not. I told him I was an agnostic/atheist. He said he needed me to lie to his parents when I met him and tell them I was christian. I couldn't do that. I have no idea what his intentions were. Well, yes I do, but that's a whoole story. Lol That first story was so similiar to mine, I thought I wrote it! 😂
Thanks for sharing this. I just had a Moroccan I was with for 1.5 years end this with me over text because his mommy wants an arranged marriage for him. I’m so broken - don’t have the heart to tell a 26 yo man to pick between me or mommy. It’s a shame because the rest of his family loved me too.
Been there. I was reticent at first because I didn't want to consider a Muslim man for something serious. He had to get out of his way to convince me that he was just like everyone else in my country. Of course, I found out during the following months that he was extremely religious and practices a literal interpretation of the Islamic scriptures and he admitted to me that he always had a problem with my hobbies (I practice several kind of dances). Even when he knew from day one that I wasn't willing to make any kind of concessions for him. He also suggested Islamic marriage even when he knew it wouldn't be valid cause I'm an atheist, but he just wanted to legitimate our relationship in front of his conservative friends and family (hypocrite!) I feel so angry that he wasted 6 months of my life and I always wonder why the hell he had to. I suggested something casual in the beginning. But I've noticed that honesty and transparency do not seem to be valued traits in the Arab culture. Especially between men and women. Oh well, who cares. I dodged a bullet.
I have never dated a Muslim, but have dated a Christian. I was raised atheist. But I now think that atheism and agnosticism as a spectrum. And fall somewhere in between. Anyway, my ex would tell me that he thought God was punishing him for having sex and told me that because I don't believe I am going to hell regardless of who I am. That was really fucked up. He also had a Jesus picture in his room and would turn it around when he was doing "unholy" things such as smoking or sexual things
The sad reality is that video titles (and the video itself) like this will dissuade & repel many from even dating brown south asians & brown arabs because we have the "muslim look" - irrespective of whether we are actually muslim or not. That is what makes being an ex-muslim unironically harder, because although we want to hate on what muslims (and perhaps our past selves) do so that it ultimately "wakes muslims up", if it catches the eye of others outside the community, we still get the negative effect from it because 99% of interactions dont get to the point of discussing what religion you believe in. Every race has the privilege of being detached from their common religion & its stereotypes in the public perception except for brown ppl, and so imo, it is super important to thread these topics with careful wording to change this perception and make it clear that these faults in muslim relationships are due to Islam and not something inherently tied to the genetics of "muslims" (ie. brown ppl)
I really want a more nuanced title, but unfortunately it doesn't work to get people (including Muslims and exmuslims) to click But through watching the video, hopefully the message is made clear and is not reduced to stereotyping
If you haven’t already, you could do a video on exmuslims and relationships. Having to balance their community/family that they don’t want to lose and their own love life is (at least for me) a big issue.
Loved this aa! You would think it’s common sense to be a decent person but 🤷🏾♀️. We are so grateful to have you . I would like for you to do Muslim marriage subreddit next time. It’s full of so much to dissect
I'm interested in how shame and guilt play out in the first case as both could cause him to move towards becoming more religious or less. I hope the husband can recognize his behavior in the second case. And relationships are co-authored so if any of the parties can afford it I think they each would benefit from therapy. And towards that end there are free therapeutic resources here on UA-cam, like Therapy in a Nutshell, Patrick Teahan, or hopefully in the future, Dr. Abby Metcalf.
Apostate Aladdin please pin me • Listen everybody, if someone does or doesn't marry you simply on the basis of your religion, they don't deserve you! Marry the person who respects you, rather than controlling you and justifying MR just because they pay for everything you own! Empower yourself as a woman. Study, get a degree, get a job and do 50/50 rather than be dependent on another person...
13:55 her reputation is on the line and not his because her social environment cares about these things and his doesn't. I'm sure misogyny also plays a part but she wrote at the start if the post that his family is much more liberal than hers.
Just be aware that a lot of stories on these subreddits are fake and/or bait. Or real stories that are exaggerated and manipulated. So it is wise to be careful like you say.
i mean he's not posting these in the replies of the post so it's not really directed towards the author anyway, whether or not the stories are fake is irrelevant since they still contain realistic things to reflect on as us third party viewers
Of course, though a lot of the elements in these stories make them seem genuine to me. Either way, nothing here is exaggerated or unheard of, so the commentary still applies to so many viewers' experiences
I agree. Internet can be filled with such posts. But these two didn’t sound that extreme. Also even if they are fake your views are getting challenged.
Aladdin, I think the way you react is beautiful and insightful and of course you’re judging but that’s OK because from what we’re seeing a lot of these men treat their wives or partners less than respect respectfully. I think you’re very insightful and very in tune with yourself you’ve deconstructed a lot of the toxic masculinity religious dogma you were raised in to become a more healthy person. That’s very beautiful to see. I think a lot of men need to do that and even women all of us should always be works in progress. I think it’s sad that a lot of these women have partners that don’t see them as complete and as perfect just the way they are but instead as projections of themselves or someone to convert or someone to save when they didn’t ask to be safe they just wanted a partner or someone to be convinced. When these guys are being hypocrites too to their own faith. It’s like they’re feeling superior to their partners, even though they’re not superior in fact they’re less so by betraying what they claim to be so fanatically messed in. So I hope for the sake of these people that they find better partners that actually see them for who they are not what they can make them into.
I was lucky because I married a non practicing muslim woman 20 years ago. I was more religious than her back then. But now I am a closeted ex-muslim atheist, and I think my wife knows it, but she remains a loving and supporting partner.
This topic has been sitting in my head for a while now. I grew up with Muslim boys who were rather lax with stuff but as we neared the end of high school they had a 180° turn. They suddenly became way more stringent and strict with themselves and other Muslim girls. Coincidentally, this turn coincided with Ali Dawah and Mohammad Hijab blowing up. Make of that connection what you will.
Hi Aladdin, I've been a viewer of your channel for quite a while now and it has been a major source of knowledge and growth for me. However today I find myself at a crossroads mildly disagreeing with you. I come from India and I've a few Muslim friends and I have a couple of Muslim cousins. Although I can't say it with absolute certainty (since I'm a third party observer to this and have not lived in their shoes); I'm pretty confident in what I'm saying. I disagree with your sweeping statement about one SHOULDN'T get with a moderate Muslim as Muslim teachings would later change the nature of the relationship. I have observed some Muslims and non Muslims getting together with both parties practicing their own faiths and beliefs separately. I know it's really hard to make sense of it cuz it is counterintuitive. But it's true. I do partly agree with what you are saying, for someone who's heavily indoctrinated in religious ideas since childhood, there is a heavy chance of them believing in regressive ideas without conscious thinking. But I don't think that's true for everyone. There are many Muslims living in non Muslim majority countries that have a different idea of good and bad.
this is only tangentially related to the post but the ambiguous definition of 'moderate muslim' cost me a friendship one time. i grew up in what most muslims would consider a cultural muslim or 'kafir' family, given that barely any of the five pillars other than mohammad is allah's prophet and zakat were enforced. growing up, i never had to pray except for eid and sometimes ramadan prayers, no one in my family even prays 5 times a day, i never went to a weekly mosque etc. the only rules that were enforced was not eating pork , no dating (though i think a lot of parents prevent teens from dating), and not wearing anything that showed cleavage and wearing miniskirts/short-shorts. there were also the typical double standards between boys and girls where i wasn't allowed to go out as much as my brother. at the time, i found my parents to be moderate bc compared to the nonmuslims i grew up around, they were far stricter. but then when i got to college and started befriending more muslims who also claimed they came from a moderate muslim household, i realized my parents were quite liberal. i went to my friend's house for the first time on a very hot summer's day and was wearing a sundress, something i'd normally wear. i thought since her parents are like mine there would be no problem. her mom was so appalled when she heard i was a muslim yet dressed 'like that' that she told my friend to kick me out before her father and brothers get home. i was so embarrassed and humiliated to be treated like that and though my friend apologized and i know it's not fully her fault, it's hard to continue talking to someone who wouldn't even warn you about a dress code for their family the way i had other friends do.
i wanna write this comment for every non muslim, muslims or even ex muslims who are in interfaith relationships. a little about me, im 20f, born muslim, been in a long distance relationship with the love of my life, my boyfriend. my boyfriend is from latin background and he's athiest, eventho his family is catholic. i was a muslim when we started dating and initially i tried to avoid it because i knew there would be complications. he was never mean to me about my religion and always preferred that i follow it because he wasnt too educated about islam but found it not so bad. i think we all muslims tend to have the same mindset when it comes to non muslims. i too, automatically assumed that he would convert to marry me because aint no way my family would ever allow this. and even if he did convert, my family would still not like him or accept him. i put my safety and belief over his. we muslims have a superiorty complex and pretend as if the world has to run in our favor always. but it was hard for me to ask him this because i knew i would instantly fall under the *radical muslim* category who go around converting people for their own cause. he once asked me if i would have beer battered fish and i said no. he said that it was kind of weird how i expect him to change his belief and integrate into a foreign culture where he would be constantly made fun of for being different but cant even try to fit into his culture. that incident really made me realize how we muslims tend to be so self absorbed in interfaith relationships. the entire relationship ive always had the constant fear of punishment from allah. i broke up multiple times only for this reason. fast forward now, i think i dont have faith in islam anymore. its not because of my boyfriend, because even if we break up, i dont think im automatically becoming more religious again. when he heard this, he told me not to go cold turkey but have faith in good parts of islam and still be religious as religion becomes a part of someone's identity. ive always felt weird about many parts of islam since my childhood. i started doubting it before i even met him. i just finally got the strength to awknowlege my doubts wearing fearing the punishment
@thebetteryou-808 It was interesting to read your perspective. I'm in an interfaith Marriage myself that started out as a long distance relationship. We now live in a western country. I'm a non-muslim married to a muslim and our relationship has been a rollercoaster. To avoid the headache I tell every muslim I'm Christian. I don't even know why that matters anymore because I am actually more "Christian" than most actual christians nowadays. That's because my perspective changed a lot after having lived in a muslim country for a year. I muslimified in a way. I fast ramadan for fun, prefer being more covered and don't drink alcohol. These things caused major drama in my atheist family. They thought my husband was forcing me, but he never asked me to change for him. Atheism moght not have rules. But when a society acts out of misinformation and fear you get the same result. Our politicians and media frame islam and it caused a lot of islamophobia. Islam is often used as a scapegoat for all the world's problems in order to get people to vote for fascists. Seeing that muslims are not the monsters the media claims them to be, I started looking into islam. I finished reading the quran, I went to halaqahs and islamic lectures, events and discussions. I found a lot of things that I agreed with, some things that I disagreed with and am left unconvinced. I was on the edge of converting. I even memorized fatiha. But I didn't convert because I wouldn't be converting out of faith, but out of loneliness and fear. All my friends are muslim and I really feel a need to belong to a community in a society so individualistic. On top of that I was panicking every day thinking "what if hell is real and I'm postponing my conversion while I already believe because if I didn't believe I wouldn't be afraid so I cant just wait and expect my slate to be clean and my sins to be forgiven" That immense guilt was a huge burden on me. Then I found something called "The Epicurean Paradox". Reading about this deconstructed my thoughts and eased my pain. Now I'm only worried my relationship won't last because I love my husband to bits. It will all come down to the topic of children in the end.
@@sharon4212 your relationship will definately last as long as he sees u as a human and a life partner, instead of someone he needs to control. so if u dont mind me asking, whats the issue with children in ur relationship? the place u live, is it still full of muslims? can u try to be somewhere its more mixed? maybe u will feel abit better when u see different type of people and not only one yk?
@thebetteryou-808 The issue is having to raise them religiously while I am not religious. I just want to tell my children what I believe and let my husband do the same. In my opinion they can make up their own mind when they are old enough. This is not acceptable to him. Yes where I live there are more non-muslims than muslims, but due to my lifestyle I fit with muslims better. I don't fit in in my own society at all. Therefore most of my friends are muslim.
@@sharon4212 this is one of the main issues of dating/marrying a muslim, is that they expect you to completely turn into their lifestyle not caring for your's. if this is a huge deal breaker for u then u gotta do what u gotta do yk. cuz i doubt if the situation will ever get better when u actually have a child. technically his marriage with u isnt valid in islam since you're an complete athiest. idk how religious ur husband is but if he is religious then he wouldnt want the kids to enjoy alot of things like having opposite gender friends, having a sleep over, celebrating Christmas or halloween, celebrating new years, wearing shorts, not wearing the hijab , dating or marrying non muslims.
@ if thats a deal breaker for you then you gotta do what u gotta do :(( . cuz i doubt when u actually have kids, the situation will get any better. idk how conservative ur husband is but people can change and he might want ur kids to wear hijab always, not let them have friends with the opposite gender, not let them participate in many school activities considering them as non islamic, let them swim in oceans even, not let them have any partners before marriage and only let them marry muslims.
Apostate Aladdin some questions for you: • Do you believe the hijab is compulsory? • Do you believe music is haram in islam? • Do you believe all disbelievers will go to hell as per islam, or will Christians and Jews go to heaven (as soon people cite due to one quranic verse) also, do you think everyone will go to heaven eventually as one hadith says? • Do you think having friends of/ contact opposite gender is totally haram in islam?
@HanJaw22 then don't ask "in islam". You already know what Islam's take is, and you know what Aladdin thinks. He obviously doesn't subscribe to the lore of islam anymore.
That’s right you have a decade to think about it. Find somebody for whom this is not a dealbreaker because you’re the one who’s gonna be carrying those babies as they develop you’re the one who’s going to be giving birth you are going to be the one breast-feeding them you are going to be the one to give up your career to raise them. You are going to be the one who can lose them at any moment if he decides he wants you out of his life And let me tell you whether you wanted them or not. At this point once you’ve had them nurse them raise them if he’s divorcing you you’re not going to want them with him because you’re going to instinctively know that’s bad for your children. No, he doesn’t respect you. He’s not gonna respect you after you capitulate he is religious. He has certain things that he wants. Let him find somebody who will give him those religious observance that he values and you go. Find yourself some nice person who wants you as who you are. They’re out there and you are delaying finding them by wasting time with this person. I have a friend who is in the situation and although she never married him, he has stalked her for years and you just need to cut this person out of your life.
i mean, i don't know if to agree with it.. there are still a lot of Muslims in the world. wouldn't it be better if they're pushed towards a much more moderate view of islam rather than having a clash with extremists (in Europe too)..?
When you say bullshit like "im not judging" and then you proceed to judge, this tells you how irrelevant and useless that prior disclaimer is. Like it or not it comes off as weakness. If you are saying something, say something with your whole chest otherwise dont and shut up about it. Dont give weak disclaimers.
That’s right you have a decade to think about it. Find somebody for whom this is not a dealbreaker because you’re the one who’s gonna be carrying those babies as they develop you’re the one who’s going to be giving birth you are going to be the one breast-feeding them you are going to be the one to give up your career to raise them. You are going to be the one who can lose them at any moment if he decides he wants you out of his life And let me tell you whether you wanted them or not. At this point once you’ve had them nurse them raise them if he’s divorcing you you’re not going to want them with him because you’re going to instinctively know that’s bad for your children. No, he doesn’t respect you. He’s not gonna respect you after you capitulate he is religious. He has certain things that he wants. Let him find somebody who will give him those religious observance that he values and you go. Find yourself some nice person who wants you as who you are. They’re out there and you are delaying finding them by wasting time with this person. I have a friend who is in the situation and although she never married him, he has stalked her for years and you just need to cut this person out of your life. Yes you absolutely need to end this relationship. Once there are children, he is going to expect you to do the fasting and the veiling and the job. You’re not a terrible person but you need to end this ASAP
I lost count of moderate muslims going hardcore islamist when they start to grow old...
Generally speaking people tend to get more conservative the older they get. It’s rather important to take in account .
This is absolutely correct. I fear this is my mom
Why do you think it happens?
@@ifinditinteresting.8709 people are coming closer to death. I suppose they fear hell. I don't think someone is moderate.
@@ifinditinteresting.8709i think because they’re closer to death, so they want to “focus” on the afterlife more
Sadly the response most Sheikhs have to the Muslim marriage crisis is to simply double down on the very unrealistic religious & cultural standards and expectations that are causing the problems.
i married an inconsistent muslim female, i loved her dearly, after losing my faith and isolating myself her family pressured and forced her to do the khula, the entire situation caused great grief to me as losing my faith meant losing her, even though she quite clearly demonstrated inconsistent beliefs and a very surface level understanding of the religion. we are still in contact to this day, but she believes that re doing an Islamic marriage and trying to follow those traditions again is our ONLY solution. I'm at the point of giving up and moving on entirely, as the impact on my ability to lead a productive and peaceful life has all but been destroyed through enduring this challenge, peace to you HR and AA, i listen to you guys often and shared your videos to my love to help her understand the logic of my theological and ideological stance. (or lack thereof)
Yeah, I'm a closeted exMuslim, and I've actively avoided getting into a relationship with any Muslim because of the complications involved. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone on false pretenses.
Heck, I even keep my Muslim friends at arms length now, because of the mask I'm forced to wear around them.
This sounds really hard. Support to you.
@@bensweiss Thank you.
People have weird hypocricies. All of them, not just Muslims. Christians, Jews. I'm an atheist ex-Muslim, but there's plenty of good Muslims who believe in the most shallow sense, being closer to agnostic. Instinctively turning your back on people isn't a great way to go through life.
I agree. The cognitive dissonance is not worth it. I'm currently unable to cut off family and friends but in the process of getting my own apartment. I can't wait to live an authentic life of my own.
@@hania.1827 That's the plan, I'm currently working to earn enough to move out and live on my own.
Wow is this video a sign from god? Just now, literally an hour ago I've made a decision to end a long relationship cause of our different views on religion and kids. Your video is saving me from feeling miserable right now
❤
Girl that was me 6 months ago. Leaving him didn't feel good, but I was feeling way worse ruminating about our future together.
You're doing the right thing. Marrying and having children with him is gonna become the worst mistake you've ever made in your entire life. Be strong!
@@nevergiveup9937I regret marrying someone on this pretense everyday! I didn't realize it was non-negotiable for her, no matter how much she had to lie! Deception is dangerous in a relationship!
Good! You gon' be alright.
@@nevergiveup9937 Thank you for your kind words, I appreciate it 🥺 It was mostly fine between us (aside from occasional arguments about religion), but he recently admitted he lied about being okay with not having kids. He actually wants many but assumed I’d change my mind. That showed me he never took my words seriously, which was the deciding factor for me… Yet, I still feel bad and unsure about it all
Ohh my gosh, i remember getting into a relationship as a closeted ex muslim with a muslim when i was 14/15. He seemed to be okay with the athiest part but then i eavesdropped on a conversation where he told his friends he knew exactly how to bring me back to my deen, and made these wild claims about how he was going to force me to leave school after i finished my igcse's so he could shape me into his perfect wife. Bro was planning to approach my parents with the plan, including outing me so they'd be more compelled to leave my education unfinished
How wild lol , glad that you are ok
He is diabolical for that
Wow! I Hope he didn’t out you as revenge for the breakup?!
Wow! 😮 Religion really is poison.
Wow that’s really messed up
I was in a relationship with a hypocritical moderate muslim for a year and he broke the rules allllll the time (sex, missing prayer, lying esp to parents, etc). But he would turn around and critique non muslims or other muslims straying from the religion. No matter how hard I tried, he never recognised the hypocrisy...
Aladdin: We listen and WE JUDGE
as opposed to WE LISTEN (for the tea) and we judge silently.
I knew the marriage rules of Islam. Even as a Muslim I knew i can't be a good wife according to Islam and its only gonna increase my chance to hell so i thought I won't get married in this world. My plan was getting married to a angel in jannah lol
Same lol . The rules are very strict and almost sound dehumanizing, like one mistake from the wife and all her honor and past achievements are thrown out into the trash and she can go to hell
😂😂😂
plot twist: women don't get angels in Jannah, only men do 😂
This reminds me to the time I dated a Catholic guy, you said something about 'moderate" religious people being in an unstable state and that's exactly how it felt. We only dated for a short time and the entire time he made me miserable, switching between love bombing and accusing me of attracting him despite him being straight (I'm trans and he was very insecure). After he asked ME out.
On the bright side I'm glad I broke it off early. About seven years later I'm happily married to an atheist.
Man I'm gonna vent. I'm in a relationship with a south Asian girl. I'm from a Christian bg but now just identify as an agnostic. My girlfriend of 3 years now and friend for way longer comes from an islamic background. Adapting to the cultural expectations gives me the worst case of culture shock because the entire immediate family is basically moderate muslims. Apparently the family likes me enough because I present to keep me at an arms length. It's quite literally soul draining and i can't even begin to explain how much drama it causes...
@@dr.leatherwood6216 I feel u
My older sister married a Muslim man, she was so in love with him that we were surprised by the strange changes after the marriage, she was no longer wore makeup, no longer wore jeans, and yet he said he was moderate.
😢that's sad. How is your sister?
Jeans?? As a Muslim, she doesn't have to do that lmao. Also make-up is allowed, idk where she got that idea 🤣
@@scificyber lol are you moderate too cz anything that magnifies woman's beauty isn't allowed in Islam, including makeup n jeans, not outside at least.
@ifinditinteresting.8709 She became depressed, and later he left her because she couldn't give him a son.
@scificyber her husband.
This is so painful to watch, since I was in a relationship with a 'moderate muslim' myself. During the war in Gaza, he became so much more consistent, eventually leading us to break up. And it still hurts so much, because our love was so strong :( I have tried so many times to discuss everything with him with an open mind, but he was always afraid to answer my questions and unwilling to have discussions about his faith.. I think fear of hell was the biggest factor.
I'm definitely looking forward to this! This might be the most insightful way to observe relationship dynamics in Islam
I dated a muslim once... I think. He was never clear on if he believes/practiced or not. I told him I was an agnostic/atheist. He said he needed me to lie to his parents when I met him and tell them I was christian. I couldn't do that. I have no idea what his intentions were. Well, yes I do, but that's a whoole story. Lol
That first story was so similiar to mine, I thought I wrote it! 😂
Please make more videos like this. It was a very enjoyable listen.
oh snap this is the experience i had that bought me to this channel and ex Muslim youtube... almost marrying a Muslim man .
Thanks for sharing this. I just had a Moroccan I was with for 1.5 years end this with me over text because his mommy wants an arranged marriage for him. I’m so broken - don’t have the heart to tell a 26 yo man to pick between me or mommy. It’s a shame because the rest of his family loved me too.
Been there. I was reticent at first because I didn't want to consider a Muslim man for something serious. He had to get out of his way to convince me that he was just like everyone else in my country. Of course, I found out during the following months that he was extremely religious and practices a literal interpretation of the Islamic scriptures and he admitted to me that he always had a problem with my hobbies (I practice several kind of dances). Even when he knew from day one that I wasn't willing to make any kind of concessions for him. He also suggested Islamic marriage even when he knew it wouldn't be valid cause I'm an atheist, but he just wanted to legitimate our relationship in front of his conservative friends and family (hypocrite!)
I feel so angry that he wasted 6 months of my life and I always wonder why the hell he had to. I suggested something casual in the beginning. But I've noticed that honesty and transparency do not seem to be valued traits in the Arab culture. Especially between men and women.
Oh well, who cares. I dodged a bullet.
Honesty doesn't survive the attack of strong emotions like shame.
I have never dated a Muslim, but have dated a Christian. I was raised atheist. But I now think that atheism and agnosticism as a spectrum. And fall somewhere in between. Anyway, my ex would tell me that he thought God was punishing him for having sex and told me that because I don't believe I am going to hell regardless of who I am. That was really fucked up. He also had a Jesus picture in his room and would turn it around when he was doing "unholy" things such as smoking or sexual things
The sad reality is that video titles (and the video itself) like this will dissuade & repel many from even dating brown south asians & brown arabs because we have the "muslim look" - irrespective of whether we are actually muslim or not.
That is what makes being an ex-muslim unironically harder, because although we want to hate on what muslims (and perhaps our past selves) do so that it ultimately "wakes muslims up", if it catches the eye of others outside the community, we still get the negative effect from it because 99% of interactions dont get to the point of discussing what religion you believe in.
Every race has the privilege of being detached from their common religion & its stereotypes in the public perception except for brown ppl, and so imo, it is super important to thread these topics with careful wording to change this perception and make it clear that these faults in muslim relationships are due to Islam and not something inherently tied to the genetics of "muslims" (ie. brown ppl)
I really want a more nuanced title, but unfortunately it doesn't work to get people (including Muslims and exmuslims) to click
But through watching the video, hopefully the message is made clear and is not reduced to stereotyping
@@ApostateAladdin keep up the good work apostate aladdin
@@wasteyute6765 I’d be totally willing to date an ex Muslim. Religion isn’t a race!
@@ApostateAladdinya I totally get it, gotta play the UA-cam game at the same time cuz ur still making a positive impact regardless
@@wasteyute6765 Brown people =/= islam
If you haven’t already, you could do a video on exmuslims and relationships. Having to balance their community/family that they don’t want to lose and their own love life is (at least for me) a big issue.
i second this, it's been something that's weighing on my mind, and how interpersonal relations get so much more complicated
Alladin you are our apostate hero. I can't put into words how valuable and important.
Much love and respect. I feel as though you give me a voice.
Love this format. Keep going, friend ❤.
Thank you! Please do more of these videos where you read stories from reddit and quora
I like this new format.
your remarks are all so right and so perfect
Nobody is perfect. I could be wrong
@ in this case we both are wrong:)
Thank you for the amazing work you do, Aladdin! Your bravery, eloquence and intelligence are true inspirations 💫
Great content. I learned so much from this topic.
I like this format and I would absolutly watch more!
Loved this aa! You would think it’s common sense to be a decent person but 🤷🏾♀️. We are so grateful to have you . I would like for you to do Muslim marriage subreddit next time. It’s full of so much to dissect
I'm interested in how shame and guilt play out in the first case as both could cause him to move towards becoming more religious or less. I hope the husband can recognize his behavior in the second case. And relationships are co-authored so if any of the parties can afford it I think they each would benefit from therapy. And towards that end there are free therapeutic resources here on UA-cam, like Therapy in a Nutshell, Patrick Teahan, or hopefully in the future, Dr. Abby Metcalf.
Apostate Aladdin please pin me
• Listen everybody, if someone does or doesn't marry you simply on the basis of your religion, they don't deserve you!
Marry the person who respects you, rather than controlling you and justifying MR just because they pay for everything you own!
Empower yourself as a woman. Study, get a degree, get a job and do 50/50 rather than be dependent on another person...
A never-muslim from Iran here! Great video;)
13:55 her reputation is on the line and not his because her social environment cares about these things and his doesn't.
I'm sure misogyny also plays a part but she wrote at the start if the post that his family is much more liberal than hers.
Two videos in one day?! ❤🎉
gimme more like this alladeen
Great video. You are the best currently running ex-Muslim UA-camr IMO.
Make more of these videos😊
I’m excited!
As a Muslim girl - I agree😅
I love this topic.
Just be aware that a lot of stories on these subreddits are fake and/or bait. Or real stories that are exaggerated and manipulated. So it is wise to be careful like you say.
i mean he's not posting these in the replies of the post so it's not really directed towards the author anyway, whether or not the stories are fake is irrelevant since they still contain realistic things to reflect on as us third party viewers
Of course, though a lot of the elements in these stories make them seem genuine to me. Either way, nothing here is exaggerated or unheard of, so the commentary still applies to so many viewers' experiences
I agree. Internet can be filled with such posts. But these two didn’t sound that extreme. Also even if they are fake your views are getting challenged.
Aladdin, I think the way you react is beautiful and insightful and of course you’re judging but that’s OK because from what we’re seeing a lot of these men treat their wives or partners less than respect respectfully. I think you’re very insightful and very in tune with yourself you’ve deconstructed a lot of the toxic masculinity religious dogma you were raised in to become a more healthy person. That’s very beautiful to see. I think a lot of men need to do that and even women all of us should always be works in progress. I think it’s sad that a lot of these women have partners that don’t see them as complete and as perfect just the way they are but instead as projections of themselves or someone to convert or someone to save when they didn’t ask to be safe they just wanted a partner or someone to be convinced. When these guys are being hypocrites too to their own faith. It’s like they’re feeling superior to their partners, even though they’re not superior in fact they’re less so by betraying what they claim to be so fanatically messed in. So I hope for the sake of these people that they find better partners that actually see them for who they are not what they can make them into.
More like this please
I agree with you 100% 👏👏👏👏
I was lucky because I married a non practicing muslim woman 20 years ago. I was more religious than her back then. But now I am a closeted ex-muslim atheist, and I think my wife knows it, but she remains a loving and supporting partner.
This topic has been sitting in my head for a while now. I grew up with Muslim boys who were rather lax with stuff but as we neared the end of high school they had a 180° turn. They suddenly became way more stringent and strict with themselves and other Muslim girls. Coincidentally, this turn coincided with Ali Dawah and Mohammad Hijab blowing up. Make of that connection what you will.
Hi Aladdin,
I've been a viewer of your channel for quite a while now and it has been a major source of knowledge and growth for me.
However today I find myself at a crossroads mildly disagreeing with you.
I come from India and I've a few Muslim friends and I have a couple of Muslim cousins. Although I can't say it with absolute certainty (since I'm a third party observer to this and have not lived in their shoes); I'm pretty confident in what I'm saying.
I disagree with your sweeping statement about one SHOULDN'T get with a moderate Muslim as Muslim teachings would later change the nature of the relationship.
I have observed some Muslims and non Muslims getting together with both parties practicing their own faiths and beliefs separately. I know it's really hard to make sense of it cuz it is counterintuitive. But it's true.
I do partly agree with what you are saying, for someone who's heavily indoctrinated in religious ideas since childhood, there is a heavy chance of them believing in regressive ideas without conscious thinking.
But I don't think that's true for everyone.
There are many Muslims living in non Muslim majority countries that have a different idea of good and bad.
الإيمان الدينى هو الإصرار على البقاء جاهلا ً فى وجه كل الدلائل التى تقول إنك جاهل
This topic feels all too familiar..
Pls make more Videos like this!
She needs to get rid of that guy before her son starts to copy him!
this is only tangentially related to the post but the ambiguous definition of 'moderate muslim' cost me a friendship one time.
i grew up in what most muslims would consider a cultural muslim or 'kafir' family, given that barely any of the five pillars other than mohammad is allah's prophet and zakat were enforced. growing up, i never had to pray except for eid and sometimes ramadan prayers, no one in my family even prays 5 times a day, i never went to a weekly mosque etc. the only rules that were enforced was not eating pork , no dating (though i think a lot of parents prevent teens from dating), and not wearing anything that showed cleavage and wearing miniskirts/short-shorts. there were also the typical double standards between boys and girls where i wasn't allowed to go out as much as my brother. at the time, i found my parents to be moderate bc compared to the nonmuslims i grew up around, they were far stricter. but then when i got to college and started befriending more muslims who also claimed they came from a moderate muslim household, i realized my parents were quite liberal.
i went to my friend's house for the first time on a very hot summer's day and was wearing a sundress, something i'd normally wear. i thought since her parents are like mine there would be no problem. her mom was so appalled when she heard i was a muslim yet dressed 'like that' that she told my friend to kick me out before her father and brothers get home. i was so embarrassed and humiliated to be treated like that and though my friend apologized and i know it's not fully her fault, it's hard to continue talking to someone who wouldn't even warn you about a dress code for their family the way i had other friends do.
More shorter vids like these please
i wanna write this comment for every non muslim, muslims or even ex muslims who are in interfaith relationships.
a little about me, im 20f, born muslim, been in a long distance relationship with the love of my life, my boyfriend. my boyfriend is from latin background and he's athiest, eventho his family is catholic. i was a muslim when we started dating and initially i tried to avoid it because i knew there would be complications. he was never mean to me about my religion and always preferred that i follow it because he wasnt too educated about islam but found it not so bad. i think we all muslims tend to have the same mindset when it comes to non muslims. i too, automatically assumed that he would convert to marry me because aint no way my family would ever allow this. and even if he did convert, my family would still not like him or accept him. i put my safety and belief over his. we muslims have a superiorty complex and pretend as if the world has to run in our favor always. but it was hard for me to ask him this because i knew i would instantly fall under the *radical muslim* category who go around converting people for their own cause. he once asked me if i would have beer battered fish and i said no. he said that it was kind of weird how i expect him to change his belief and integrate into a foreign culture where he would be constantly made fun of for being different but cant even try to fit into his culture. that incident really made me realize how we muslims tend to be so self absorbed in interfaith relationships.
the entire relationship ive always had the constant fear of punishment from allah. i broke up multiple times only for this reason. fast forward now, i think i dont have faith in islam anymore. its not because of my boyfriend, because even if we break up, i dont think im automatically becoming more religious again. when he heard this, he told me not to go cold turkey but have faith in good parts of islam and still be religious as religion becomes a part of someone's identity.
ive always felt weird about many parts of islam since my childhood. i started doubting it before i even met him. i just finally got the strength to awknowlege my doubts wearing fearing the punishment
@thebetteryou-808 It was interesting to read your perspective. I'm in an interfaith Marriage myself that started out as a long distance relationship. We now live in a western country. I'm a non-muslim married to a muslim and our relationship has been a rollercoaster. To avoid the headache I tell every muslim I'm Christian. I don't even know why that matters anymore because I am actually more "Christian" than most actual christians nowadays.
That's because my perspective changed a lot after having lived in a muslim country for a year. I muslimified in a way. I fast ramadan for fun, prefer being more covered and don't drink alcohol. These things caused major drama in my atheist family. They thought my husband was forcing me, but he never asked me to change for him. Atheism moght not have rules. But when a society acts out of misinformation and fear you get the same result.
Our politicians and media frame islam and it caused a lot of islamophobia. Islam is often used as a scapegoat for all the world's problems in order to get people to vote for fascists. Seeing that muslims are not the monsters the media claims them to be, I started looking into islam. I finished reading the quran, I went to halaqahs and islamic lectures, events and discussions. I found a lot of things that I agreed with, some things that I disagreed with and am left unconvinced. I was on the edge of converting. I even memorized fatiha. But I didn't convert because I wouldn't be converting out of faith, but out of loneliness and fear. All my friends are muslim and I really feel a need to belong to a community in a society so individualistic. On top of that I was panicking every day thinking "what if hell is real and I'm postponing my conversion while I already believe because if I didn't believe I wouldn't be afraid so I cant just wait and expect my slate to be clean and my sins to be forgiven" That immense guilt was a huge burden on me. Then I found something called "The Epicurean Paradox". Reading about this deconstructed my thoughts and eased my pain.
Now I'm only worried my relationship won't last because I love my husband to bits. It will all come down to the topic of children in the end.
@@sharon4212 your relationship will definately last as long as he sees u as a human and a life partner, instead of someone he needs to control.
so if u dont mind me asking, whats the issue with children in ur relationship?
the place u live, is it still full of muslims? can u try to be somewhere its more mixed? maybe u will feel abit better when u see different type of people and not only one yk?
@thebetteryou-808 The issue is having to raise them religiously while I am not religious. I just want to tell my children what I believe and let my husband do the same. In my opinion they can make up their own mind when they are old enough. This is not acceptable to him.
Yes where I live there are more non-muslims than muslims, but due to my lifestyle I fit with muslims better. I don't fit in in my own society at all. Therefore most of my friends are muslim.
@@sharon4212 this is one of the main issues of dating/marrying a muslim, is that they expect you to completely turn into their lifestyle not caring for your's.
if this is a huge deal breaker for u then u gotta do what u gotta do yk. cuz i doubt if the situation will ever get better when u actually have a child. technically his marriage with u isnt valid in islam since you're an complete athiest. idk how religious ur husband is but if he is religious then he wouldnt want the kids to enjoy alot of things like having opposite gender friends, having a sleep over, celebrating Christmas or halloween, celebrating new years, wearing shorts, not wearing the hijab , dating or marrying non muslims.
@ if thats a deal breaker for you then you gotta do what u gotta do :(( . cuz i doubt when u actually have kids, the situation will get any better. idk how conservative ur husband is but people can change and he might want ur kids to wear hijab always, not let them have friends with the opposite gender, not let them participate in many school activities considering them as non islamic, let them swim in oceans even, not let them have any partners before marriage and only let them marry muslims.
Nice
Did you see apostate prophet where his life was threatened
Read more! I like to listen to you narrating!
so abortion is looked down on in islam?
Apostate Aladdin some questions for you:
• Do you believe the hijab is compulsory?
• Do you believe music is haram in islam?
• Do you believe all disbelievers will go to hell as per islam, or will Christians and Jews go to heaven (as soon people cite due to one quranic verse) also, do you think everyone will go to heaven eventually as one hadith says?
• Do you think having friends of/ contact opposite gender is totally haram in islam?
Are you asking his personal opinion or the religious take?
@dimitritome5118 personal opinion
@HanJaw22 then don't ask "in islam". You already know what Islam's take is, and you know what Aladdin thinks. He obviously doesn't subscribe to the lore of islam anymore.
if only mys sis watched this
That’s right you have a decade to think about it. Find somebody for whom this is not a dealbreaker because you’re the one who’s gonna be carrying those babies as they develop you’re the one who’s going to be giving birth you are going to be the one breast-feeding them you are going to be the one to give up your career to raise them. You are going to be the one who can lose them at any moment if he decides he wants you out of his life And let me tell you whether you wanted them or not. At this point once you’ve had them nurse them raise them if he’s divorcing you you’re not going to want them with him because you’re going to instinctively know that’s bad for your children. No, he doesn’t respect you. He’s not gonna respect you after you capitulate he is religious. He has certain things that he wants. Let him find somebody who will give him those religious observance that he values and you go. Find yourself some nice person who wants you as who you are. They’re out there and you are delaying finding them by wasting time with this person. I have a friend who is in the situation and although she never married him, he has stalked her for years and you just need to cut this person out of your life.
❤
Wow.
hmmmm
i mean, i don't know if to agree with it.. there are still a lot of Muslims in the world. wouldn't it be better if they're pushed towards a much more moderate view of islam rather than having a clash with extremists (in Europe too)..?
i hope you got my email...
Comment for algo
8:11
When you say bullshit like "im not judging" and then you proceed to judge, this tells you how irrelevant and useless that prior disclaimer is.
Like it or not it comes off as weakness. If you are saying something, say something with your whole chest otherwise dont and shut up about it. Dont give weak disclaimers.
your comment got cut off , it happens to the best of us it was just a minor slip up seems very nitpicky to judge the entire video on it
have some humor in life lol. he even made a meme of himself saying that he eventually would be judging them anyways
i find your lack of humor interesting
It’s funny that the only thing you can criticise on is something that he memed on himself for doing.
That’s right you have a decade to think about it. Find somebody for whom this is not a dealbreaker because you’re the one who’s gonna be carrying those babies as they develop you’re the one who’s going to be giving birth you are going to be the one breast-feeding them you are going to be the one to give up your career to raise them. You are going to be the one who can lose them at any moment if he decides he wants you out of his life And let me tell you whether you wanted them or not. At this point once you’ve had them nurse them raise them if he’s divorcing you you’re not going to want them with him because you’re going to instinctively know that’s bad for your children. No, he doesn’t respect you. He’s not gonna respect you after you capitulate he is religious. He has certain things that he wants. Let him find somebody who will give him those religious observance that he values and you go. Find yourself some nice person who wants you as who you are. They’re out there and you are delaying finding them by wasting time with this person. I have a friend who is in the situation and although she never married him, he has stalked her for years and you just need to cut this person out of your life. Yes you absolutely need to end this relationship. Once there are children, he is going to expect you to do the fasting and the veiling and the job. You’re not a terrible person but you need to end this ASAP