You call THAT a router?! 2 Tiny Raspberry Pi Routers
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- Опубліковано 29 лип 2024
- Take a look at the two smallest Raspberry Pi Routers in existence: The DFRobot IoT Router Board Mini and the Seeed Studio Routerboard!
Along the way, learn about networking, OpenWRT, and how these two routerboards stack up against each other.
Support me on Patreon: / geerlingguy
Sponsor me on GitHub: github.com/sponsors/geerlingguy
See my blog post with more links and data: www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/202...
DFRobot's IoT Router Carrier Board Mini: www.dfrobot.com/product-2242....
Seeed's Dual Gigabit Carrier Board: www.seeedstudio.com/Rapberry-...
GitHub issue for DFRobot Board: github.com/geerlingguy/raspbe...
GitHub issue for Seeed Board: github.com/geerlingguy/raspbe...
See all the PCI Express cards and CM4 boards I'm testing: pipci.jeffgeerling.com
#RaspberryPi #HomeNetwork #Router
Contents:
00:00 - Raspberry Pi Routers
00:55 - Tiny Routerboards
02:08 - Seeed Board overview
03:25 - DFRobot Board overview
04:24 - Getting OpenWRT working
06:24 - DFRobot test and benchmarks
08:54 - Seeed test and benchmarks
12:41 - WAP and WiFi Routing
13:28 - Verdict and 2.5 Gbps option?
14:17 - Outtakes - Наука та технологія
Thank you for reporting energy consumption. This is really useful in RVs where running from battery power is a way of life.
Also off grid solar.
Living in an RV, you say? If your home is truly mobile, would you mind telling me about your WiFi reception setup? I know that RV parks are infamous for poor WiFi, but by and large, it's really not entirely their fault.
@@pinaz993 Wifi is mostly useless, but a MOFI with a pair of 10DB omni antennas works great -- so far. a MOFI is a little linux box with cellular modem that provides a hardware router and wifi onboard, highly configurable. So not idiot proof like most products for the RV industry, but easy to use without reading the manual for someone like me who never reads the manual (but knows a lot about technology.) YMMV
This device is PERFECT for a battery run home. Lol, buying mine in preparation for just that.
hahaha a 28 nm cuad a72 without crypto extension is the worst on energy efficiency fot a router...
I'm really liking where the pi ecosystem is headed with all these developments! Like, this kind of applications were always talked about but never truly feasible for every day use because of the interface limitations, now I finally really can consider using a pi as a router
If Raspberry Pi 5 includes pcie 3.0 or 4.0 or even 2.0, but with four lanes, that's going to be MUCH more interesting. I kind of imagine RPi 5 coming with single OCuLink sticking out of the board...
I usually only use raspberries for messing around and trying stuff. Even the old "standard" raspberries are pretty awesome for this. But imagining the possibilities, some of the new stuff opens up... Warms my heart, thinking of all the things I will probably fail at sometimes in the future :)
Take a look at Ivan's WIP for blade servers using the CM4 twitter.com/Merocle/status/1407684311344730117
@@Vatharian i hope that the Pi 5 CM will have the same connector like the CM 4 version, so you can keep your old "breakout boards"
@@friedrich1277 If it will have different connectivity, like pcie x4 2.0 port, it will be bad. It all depends on its CPU, since they are targeting price point, not feature set. Other than that, just couple of days ago R Pi foundation confirmed they are working on RPi 4 A, but there is no work being done on RPi 5, neither prototyping nor design wise.
Oh thank Goodness. Somebody's making a Pi router. Time to buy!
I hope you got your order in. Looks like they've sold out for now.
@@andrewyoung8703 Nope, I didn't make it in time.
I would just use the standard Pi, much cheaper and more modular.
when this guy actually makes a product ready product is the day pigs fly. He's gunna stick to yt click bate
@@nigratruo : That depends on what you need/want out of said router. Like Jeff highlighted in the video...
PuTTY is no longer needed for SSH on Windows. OpenSSH is built in as of April 2018.
Yeah. Just use Powershell.
@@MrNeocortex There's even an OpenSSH *server* on windows 10 nowadays; so it's possible to ssh (&sftp) into windows directly.
Windows is no longer needed. Everything can be done on Linux as of May 2021
old habits die hard lol
Not at my computer atm so I can't easily check for myself.. But I'm running LTSC, which ends up being behind on some things. Do you know if it's in there?
Love the bloopers at the end. Just shows a small amount of the struggle that goes into video production. Anyone that thumbs down does not know the struggle, time,& effort that goes into making a single video.
I was thinking the same thing. Jeff (and everyone else really) that makes a fantastic product, rarely does it in one go; it (apparently!!) takes HOURS to make a good presentation, particularly one with all the details that Jeff puts in his.
Pretty amazing, Jeff - fantastic job.
Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for this. I had forgotten about my Pi's for the last year and now impressed with how it's going. I'm back in the game. Kudos
Stil loving your bloopers at the end.. and your valueble insights on anything cm4 of course 👍
Great info and test results, thanks for all the work.. and I love the out-takes, they made my day.. Keep up all the great work!
I feel like the price would be a big no-no for me when things like the Edgerouter X for unter 50 bucks exist if you just need a good router and don't utilize the hdmi port, the usb ports or the GPIO pins.
Thanks. Great review of exactly the 2 boards I've been looking into!
Looking forward to your 2.5 Gb version. Loved this video and the production quality. Thanks!
As an 'old timer it dude, I thought I was done with this level of fun.. I like the way you help people understand the pros and cons of these boards.
Thanks! What's old is new, and all that jazz-I see a lot of people getting back into the 'build your own' game these days, probably as a knee-jerk reaction to how much modern computing platforms are getting locked down.
The big difference is unlike 20-40 years ago, you can get the equivalent of like 500 back-then cray supercomputers at your disposal. Makes things a lot more fun (IMO)!
So COOL!! thank you for these in depth reviews. I've been hoping for things that would replace my glinet mini router.
Great work as usual Jeff. I get to learn a lot even though I'm not planning to use a pi as a router. Thanks!
Can't wait to see the 2.5 gig show!
Have been looking to made a OoemWrt router using Pi since too long, this video covers it all!
You are amazing. What a lot of work and so well done! I love the bloopers at the end. God bless you.
I've been using a p3b+ as a router for years. I don't have or need gigabyte speeds so it's worked perfectly for my needs.
This reminds me of the 25 year old LPR - Linux Router Project. To build your own router then, you took an older computer, and added two or more 10/100 Ethernet cards. Gigabit ethernet was new and expensive, and only really viable for cheap projects like this after the year 2000. You would set one config file on a floppy and boot the entire computer with only one 1.4MB 3.5" floppy drive. That was both OS and config. Bigger than the Pi for sure, but at time it was revolutionarily cheap. Routers of the day were hundreds of dollars and specialty equipment.
Yeah, I remember thinking Gigabit was exotic when I was still installing 10baseT and fancy 10/100 cards in some servers back in the day. 1 Gbps is so common and cheap now... makes you forget how slow a congested old network was-floppy-disk-like speeds over the network were common!
Fantastic content. I happen to be in need of a mobile, small router for in field use. Your video just saved me a lot of time and headache.
very impressive video, well thought out and edited ,you answered "EVERY" possible question I had .. "WELL DONE"
Awesome review and thanks for sharing. Regards from someone who built (cross-compiled) tiny Gentoo systems for Soekris hardware back in the days for multi-wan routers.
I'm gonna yoink the dfrobot one before it runs out of stock. Thanks for sharing!
I'm hoping they can keep these in stock a while!
@@JeffGeerling Out of stock as of at least a couple hours ago.
Lol, nope. I ordered anyway, better get it within 2 months or I'll just cancel.
5:53 "or if you're using PuTTy on Windows"
Whilst using PuTTy is perfectly valid, Windows now natively supports SSH in the command prompt. You might have to enable it in the system settings but it's there :)
I didn't realize that but will have to check it out soon!
Man this is all foreign language to me, but I love it, LOL! This things are getting better and better with the performance and technology out of the box!! I'm learning so much from your videos, thank you for your dedication and passion to the community!
I and my Pi 4 and a couple of USB-3 ethernet dongles under my desk were waiting for this video. Thank you for making it!
Another amazing video Jeff. Thank you
Love your videos, Jeff. They are succinct and informative and pleasant. Really need to get into the raspi ecosystem after I got burned on edison a few years ago
Also of interest is the nano pi r2s dual-homed router. It works well at 1 Gbps on both ports. It's capable of 2.5 Gbps but under armbian the present driver is unstable. I've run an R2S for quite a while now and using the excellent heatsink case I've never had any issues. It just works well
Wow, what cool little router boards! Great video Jeff 👌
Another great video and the bloopers always make me laugh. Sterling work as always Jeff
I believe you can get really good value switches or routers but, having a RPI like this to play with OpenWRT is heaven on earth
Low power consumption, ability to use part of the router in other projects (I'm talking about the CM4 board) and the software supports that will keep on growing over time is very nice!
Also, did you have a look at Banana PI R2?
Dope vid Jeff! Thanks!
Can't wait for the one with the 2.5g board. Love your stuff. You are the only UA-camr that I have all notifications on. keep up the great work.
Love the bloopers.
I mean, i love your content but the bloopers are too fun aswell. :)
Stay cool Jeff!!
Network/Admin flashbacks... Great videos. Keep them coming :)
I currently have the DFRobot router board coming in the mail so i cant wait to play around with WRT again!
Really appreciate the outtakes. Keeping it real.
Great video as always! I was seriously considering getting the DFRobot to try / play around with till I saw they jacked up the price by 50%. I mean, $45 for the SEED seems reasonable since it also has the additional capabilities of potentially doing double duty as a NAS as pointed out in the video - so not sure how DFRobot can justify jacking up the price. I know Jeff pointed out the slower throughputs on SEED but that should not be an issue for folks with say 500Mbps or lower speeds. Anyway, keep up the great work, Jeff! 👍
Meanwhile the avg internet speed in my town is like 1.5Mbps..
Chip supply. The SEED may be cheaper, but it's a USB hub, which sucks.
It has crappy 1Gbe downlink to your switch. What NAS are you talking about? That's a nonsense. Imagine you ul/dl something to/from NAS and that will shut down your internet completely. Silly idea.
Great you include FLENT for network testing. It gives a great details over performance!
Will after the 2.5 Gb come the 10 Gb one and then the 10 GB + NAS / with 8 SATA interfaces?
Heh... 10 GbE is coming soon too; already have it working-though max throughput is sadly limited to 3.42 Gbps due to the Pi's PCIe x1 Gen 2 lane :(
@@JeffGeerling Would a pine Rockpro64 or any other RK3399 SMB such as khadas or SmartFly ones with Pcie x4 Gen 2.1 lanes be able to be faster?
that would be great !
@@JeffGeerling waiting for Pi 5 I guess ;)
Oh wow you're looking young in this video. I've seen almost all of your videos UpTo now, and saw this one which I haven't seen. You're the best.
Thanks for this - really useful!
RTK 8111-H support MSI and MSI-X, meaning that it doesn't use IRQ that much.
NAPI infrastructure with MSI uses interrupt mitigation, disabling interrupts when there's high load, working in a somewhat synchronous mode.
What 8111 lacks (I think) is a multiple queues infrastructure that server NICs have, that could boost performances even more sharing interrupts between multiple cores instead of always hitting the same core.
There's a board called "NanoPi R2S" by FriendlyARM, which has 1 PCIE GbE NIC and 1 USB GbE NIC
Don't know if you check that thing already tho
I'd check out the NanoPi R4S 4GB if you're looking for a robust OpenWRT router for gigabit connections with SQM.
+100000 for great documentation!
Nice! I guess I’ll still look at X86 for my planned Vyos build since I need multiple wan and lan ports, but this could be a cool thing for some other project
wondering if this can be used as an alternative for pfsense captive portal where ETH1 goes to your ISP and ETH 2 goes to a secondary router. Like the ones used in coffeeshop wifi.
I use edgerouter most of the time, but the normal pi4 is awesome for router duty. I've been using mine as a backup router on my home network, when my DSL dies. Either through its wifi and my phone in hotspot duty, or through a 3g usb modem. Openwrt works like a charm with minimal fiddling
cant wait to see what you come up with as a ap :D hope its a low budget decent option :D
Use IRQBA... oh, good you did it already.
tested one device. This channel is annoying click bait for noobs.
I just ordered a CM4 with Wireless, 4GB ram, and 32GB eMMC and the DFRobot bundle - cant wait to make this my primary router for the fibre coming into the house
Ive got a Pi4 setup as a router (OpenWRT) using its single gigabit port - setup with VLAN through a managed switch for connection to WAN and LAN. Speeds hang out at 930s Up and 840s Down on ATT Fiber.
dang. don't want your Raspberry Pi 4 Model B to be off center. Good thing you caught that!
amazing..if you have the time, would you please also show or guide us on how best to use tailscale/taildrop on pi clusters or even virtual clusters locally and remotely. ur way of explaining is easy even on these geeky home lab configs.
Incredible video. good job!
Outtakes! Woohoo! Good times.
I wish dual nics were more common ie on larger (workstation) laptops, on the pi etc. I'd love to see a firewall like Untangle /pfsense running well on a 12v tiny router. The masses need a decent plug and play solution.
Hello Jeff, precise explanation/comparison on both the boards. Could you possibly test the outcomes for pfSense and pihole on these boards?
This might make an low power transparent bridging firewall (TBFW) if it can do a deep package scan fast enough?
bruh until now i was just reading your books and appreciating how you explain everything so well and only now i found out you have a youtube channel???
My best scenes whole thing in the UA-cam Mr Jeff is the end of this video,
Mr Jeff has repeated taking a scenes 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
All your video is good and it is inspired amflearning by doing
Thanks alot Mr Jeff 🙏🏼
Thanks Jeff, does any of the 2 board have packet hardware acceleration?
Many thanks for this great video. Did-you manage to get the pci eth of DFrobot work with raspbian ? I tried many drivers without success … also printed case, but too small for CM4 with radiator …
Thank you! U got my interest on dfrobot.
Take a look at the Nano Pi R2s. Very interesting and cheap router sbc.
There is also the R4S which uses PCIe GbE, instead of USB3 Ethernet of R2S.
Best price I’ve seen is directly from the manufacturer in China. Shipping takes awhile though.
Could you try to get Docker running on these boards? I would love to have Lancache running on my router.
If anyone's looking for a minimal linux based OpenWRT gigabit router, consider the NanoPi R4S using FriendlyWRT (based on OpenWRT). It uses an RK3399 so it's not quite the same as these PI based routers but it has great performance and you can get it with a passively cooled metal enclosure. It's great.
I've been looking to use a pi zero w as a wireless router out and about to connect multiple wireless clients to each other for LAN connections. This is a perfect project for inspiration and further research, thanks.
Edit: I don't need high bandwidth or anything intense, it would mostly be used for Nintendo switch gaming TCP packets that don't care about data integrity and are not overly large.
Hi, have you seen the Nanopi r2s? If so, have you done test on it? I'm planning to buy one as my next router so I've been doing a little research on the side but there's only a few video on UA-cam about that device
Fantastic Hardwork. Very informative
love all that tiny stuff I can tinker with myself... screw buying a "premade" router where is the fun in that?
This is the way.
For sure. I really like my pcengines apu4 board
I love the idea, I dislike the headache that caused twice (on successes, excluding failures) when I built my own out of a pile of desktop parts. Worked well when it did, but broke like a house of cards any time you had to touch it. Great if I can set up a separate tinker lab and it isn't my own home LAN at stake. Definitely more fun that way and I get to learn stuff.
@@JeffGeerling make a for real production ready product for people. This is half ass work and annoying. All your videos are just look it works on a pi then you move onto the next half ass video. Put real effort and perfection into these. literally anyone that is can sit and ask questions at google for 30min could make these videos. please put in more effort and thought
Great vid as usual! I would be curious comparing these offerings to the single board mikrotik solutions. Some mikrotik router boards are about $50 and are similar. More red shirt Jeff!
+1 to that. Mikrotik products are awesome.
Could you use a 4g modem on the USB c port. And output to the eth ports
Thanks for this video, amongst other interesting facts i've learnt that VyOS exists :D
Always interesting videos mate ;)
First, thanks for the awesome videos! You always have such great content!
On your initial statement on what a router is... technically a router just routes between two networks. Whether it's internal or external doesn't matter.
A consumer grade "router" also does Network Address Translation between your internal IPs and an external IP. They also sometimes have firewalling features.
It's much easier to route than nat/firewall from a computational perspective. Does it matter in the real world on a pi? No idea!
Note that OpenWRT's default config does do NAT and has a simple firewall (with about 8 rules) configured by default.
I like, how you chase the installation status bar with your mouse... I do the same
How else does one survive the mundane tasks of everyday life?
Can you please make a guide on how to recompile the Kernal on the pi
for the wifi 6 e, can you not use a mini pci-e wwan card to usb adapter?
HOLEY UNDERWEAR, this immediately brought to mind the old 486 4meg headless floppy equipped, keyboardless machine with 2 interfaces running one of my favourite solutions FLOPPYFW (1.6meg) at my chilean cyber cafe up to 2003. Not a router... but a good way to make use of 'obsolete' hardware. No harddisk, no pool, no pets. It aint got no cigarettes.
Haha, I ran a similar machine with a Linux Router Project floppy disk in it, with a 56k modem hanging off it
@@SimonQuigley Got you beat on that, ours was 64K dedicated with 16 addresses. OUCH! About 600 a month. GLORY DAYS!!
@@loginregional lol, I "upgraded" to a Windows 95 machine with a NetJet ISDN interface card for 56 or 112k digital connection, using Sygate(? actually, I think it was WinGate) for NAT.. Horrible memories.
@@SimonQuigley RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY! Worst. Software. Ever. I used it for a very short time for a smaller cybercafe in 97 that used dialup. There was a solution in SuSE at the time... but my bwain is ti...r...ed. Best command learned at the time: dd. Made doing images S.I.M.P.L.E
thank you ! , i think that performance need to be check with different packet size mixed - like in imix protocol , and for router random or increment src ip is also good choice (to be same as in the real world ) .
I did do some different packet size tests-at least on the DFRobot-and the results are linked in the GitHub issue there.
I always love you making videos... I appreciate your and your brothers efforts on making the videos .. also tell your brother to not cut those pi's it hurts
EYYY, our boi started using a skirt on his 3D prints. Im glad you were able to fix your issues.
Thanks!
Video is great, as always)
Still looking forward to the testing on the dual port 2.5gbps card you teased.
Excellent video as usual
Thanks for that. Partly over my head, very info dense.
Looking for a home router for Home Assistant, sounds like you're heading in the same direction?
Love to hear more.
Nice video! I'm currently using my rpi 4 as a router because my apartment building's wifi won't allow me to ssh between my own devices. In the future I'm probably going to be looking at repurposing an old computer of mine as a router + NAS. A bit hard to do since I'm a student on a budget.
things I didn't expect to see appearing the same shot: a hacksaw and a raspberry pi :)
I just found that video... I have bought the Seeed model in june, and I the speeds are a lot better than what you get here!
It saturates the gigabit connexion no problem... My speed tests are getting me around 940Mbps up and down with the firewall active.
I used a stock OpenWRT image as I did not want to use the one provided directly by Seeed... because reasons!
I might add that I had speed issues when using a PSU that was not powerfull enough. The one that works is a 4amp 5V PSU
It’s a beautiful thing!!
for a year now, I've been running a Pi4B as openwrt router with VLANS uplinked with a single Gbit cable to a Layer 2 managed switch. One port on the switch goes to a 500/500 Fibre optic media converter. It works absolutely fabulously, no hiccups, lightning fast DNS (unbound) and full 500/500 speed despite SPI. It has completely replaced the standard router(zyxel) supplied by the carrier.
The line between LAN and Internet has faded nearly completely.
hey man great video,
As a long-time networking nerd still gnawing at the idea of finishing my CCIE, one thought was to perform UDP based iperf to get TCP windowing and retransmissions out of the way.
Thank you
If all you need are two Gigabyte ports, the NanoPi R4S is a powerful router that runs OpenWRT and can manage a 1 Gigabit WAN uplink with SQM. Search for tests done on reddit, it smokes the RPi.
Super video! I applauded for €2.00 👏
Tip about 0 tolerance stls: You can use the Horizontal Expansion setting in Cura (or equivalent in anything else) to make it smaller in the axis that are usually the problem (X, Y).
Bonus tip: You can use Initial Layer Horizontal Expansion to get rid of elephants foot
Thanks! I'll take a look at that next time I do a build like this-I'm still pretty new to slicing and dicing in 3D printing :)
@@JeffGeerling How do you convert the step file the DFRobot supplies to files for the 3D printer?
@@dogsop I used Fusion 360 (Personal / non-commercial license) to select each of the case parts, and export them individually to STL files.