I have an older 1100. I bought it with the base and flood cooling system. And immediately ran into problems with it. I don't know if the newer models are designed differently now ... The short version of the story is that I redesigned almost every aspect of it and here is what I have now: I bought a couple gallons of epoxy, the kind used for fiberglass repair. Pulled the mill out of the base, cleaned up the base, tilted it, and poured the epoxy in. Now I have a sloped surface for the fluid to run back toward the drain. Before I did that the reservoir would run dry on me right in the middle of a deep pocket cut and it would stop evacuating chips. I cut up a sheet of Lexan to lie flat inside the enclosure on both sides of the mill. They catch most of the chips so the chips don't wash under the mill and make a dam that stops coolant from going back the the drain, right where it is almost impossible to clean them out. Makes a nice flat surface so when you are making piles of chips you can scoop them out with a dustpan real easy. This also stops using the screen in the drain as the only chip-catcher. The screen gets stopped up real quick and makes the reservoir run dry for fun surprises. Now it's no more problem. I used the same Lexan to make splash shields that fit all around the enclosure. They just sit in the sides and back. When you're making chips right they fly a long way, these catch them and keep them off the wall. They also keep the coolant in the machine. I made two special ones; one that has slots so it fits over the front of the vise, just slips on and off. That keeps chips from building up on the accordion at the front of the machine (that's the one that gets compressed down to zero and compacting chips in the folds is not good for it). The other one has a few brackets bolted on so it just slips over the front of the machine when the vise is not mounted. The result is total chip and coolant containment except for some of the flingers you get when you're drilling. I ran larger piping and hoses from the pump all the way to the spindle. The originals were way too small and the pump drinks easier now. I attached the vertical run to the back wall, put a tee there and a check valve. The check valve gets rid of that variable delay when you turn coolant on, so you don't have to worry about melting a tool while it hogs away dry while waiting for that first gush. The tee is hosed two ways -- one to the spindle and the other to a bulkhead fitting, valve, and short length of garden hose with a nozzle on it that hangs on the front of the machine. That's useful for clearing most of the chips off the vise and workpiece before going after them with air. That way you aren't blowing chips across the shop, into your ways, and into the sensitive areas of your vise. And you can chase them into a pile with the nozzle, rinse them off the table, etc. Saves time. The other side of the tee goes to the spindle, where there is a ball valve mounted right to the side of the casting, and some of that ball joint tubing/hose stuff arranged with three nozzles, each one with a valve on it. It's real nice to have flow from three directions when you're doing deep pockets and it's real nice to have more than enough flow to spooge the chips out. After making the newbie mistake of trying synthetic, I switched to Blaser (can't remember the formulation but will look it up if asked). I use it at higher than recommended concentration. No rust ever, and the stuff positively won't spoil. It doesn't eat the paint, either. The film someone else mentioned is a rust preventive and I am happy to rinse it off just by hosing it down with the same coolant after a period of inactivity. It lubricates well enough that I was able to do a bunch of deep holes in aluminum, where the other synthetic stuff ended up with chips welded to the tool and gumming up the flutes and busting off the bit in the material. Night and day difference. The refusal to go sour means I can use a wet vac to clean up chips. Huge time saver, and again way better than compressed air. Anyway my amateur opinion is that the time spent redesigning that cooling system more than paid back in reduced maintenance, let alone productivity. I don't know if this wall of text is clear enough to help anyone, maybe I should just shoot a little video of my own when I get the time. I also added a counterweight, don't know if anyone is interested, but it got rid of a headache with the Z axis. There was a pretty good difference in height depending on which direction it was traveling when it stopped. And now I don't have to scrinch down the ways to stop it from wrecking itself when I turn it off. Hope this helps.
Wyatt Storches Hello Wyatt, I'd be interested in getting the formula of that Blaser coolant. I went to their website and they don't have any prices listed. I hate that. Was it the B-Cool stuff? How much did it cost? Thanks. Mike
John I see what you did there man. In no way am I inflicting my beliefs or way of machining on anyone or you. To each their own with flood or not it always works and you adapt your methods around your cutting fluid. Your series are always great to watch because its not always about pumping out parts and doing everything to save a tool to run one more part its about the joy. Keep up the good work man. From the big guy to the little.
I have made up a couple of coolant systems of this style for a lot less money. You can use an air line lubricator and just use your cutting oil or coolant of your choice. Once set they work great on saws. You may need to adjust the size of the jet inside and then you adjust the pressure of the air feeding it. A lot of CNC's will have spare outputs on their plc that are not used and only need an M code to activate. You could use this for your extra coolant setup you are talking about. Cheers
My coolant weigh-in. I use a very high coolant concentration. At least 30 percent. It's the stuff tormach sells. That 30 percent SEEMS to really cut down on rust, improve tool life over lower percentages, but eats paint like it's nothing, and does seem to get skunky looking pretty quickly, but luckily, not smelly. Congrats on the ATC! That coolant nozzle aiming project sounds incredible - can't wait to see that!
Large job shop here (20+ cnc machines). Regarding flood coolant, AVOID fully synthetic coolant like the plague. I don't care what the salesman or your buddy who runs it says - that's where you get rust problems (ask me about $10k+ in replaced ballscrews & bearings). I know of several machine manufacturers who will go so far as voiding warranties if you run full synthetic coolant. Use a good semi-synthetic, keep a check on it with a refract and you'll be fine. A simple fish tank aerator can be enough agitation to keep the smell down if you have that problem, and use a skimmer if you get too thick a layer of oil on top. I've used Trim, Castrol, Milacron, Blaser, but have found Qualichem to be the best I've ever seen. Controls the rust (and we run a lot of cast iron), doesn't build up a gooey film (like the Blaser did), doesn't "snot" up (like the Trim did) and can go uncirculated for an incredible amount of time without stinking.
NYC CNC Blaser performs very well. It just builds up a slippery film all over everything that's a chore to clean and dangerous to walk around on. It also tends to foam up in high pressure systems and is rather expensive.
Great tips! I am using a full synthetic and getting crazy rust. I'll be switching to Qualichem because I've heard nothing but great things about it. Even Mitee Bite uses it in their shop, that's good enough for me!
JohnGrimsmo Qualichem Xtremecut 230 is what we're using and it's fantastic stuff. Run it about 3-5% for general machining, a little richer for sawing & grinding.
JohnGrimsmo I'm using Xtreme cut 251C (for heat treated steels) and it's pretty rad. I'm keeping it at around 10% and it does really well. I mainly need it for chip clearing. No nasty smells, no crud or moldy gunk. My only complaint is that it makes the floor VERY sticky if spilled and allowed to dry. I can tell there will be absolutely ZERO issues with rust using this coolant like I was having with Kool-Aide 77. It leaves everything coated in a fine oil. In fact the rep told me NOT to clean my machine after using it, just let it sit on the table, vices, etc. It will protect them from rust.
I have an uncle who is a cnc programmer who programs haas machines all day. He doesn't know half the things you know, its a shame modern day "machinist" & cnc programmers who start out with a haas & it takes all the guess work out of machining. I feel like these professionals aren't as knowledgeable about machining than someone who started out with a weaker machine with limitations & struggles. Its great you started your work with a tormach & tiag. Btw when are we gonna see more haas videos?
I used to tap some real long drills on hardened steel. For lubrication i use butter. REAL butter, from a legit cow. When I have the drills, I put it in a chef-bag so i can push it down the hole. That wil give you TWO advantages, first, of course, lubrication. BUT also excellent chip evacuation as it's a viscous material that will push the harder material up, and also lubricate the material as it flows trought the hole.
Totally agree! Chip clearing is vastly more important than cooling or lubrication. I was using the Kool-aide as flood and it worked fine for as long as I used it since it was mainly clearing chips. I had a lot of problems with rust and it was getting to be a chore trying to keep up with it. I switched to Qualichem 251C and it is much better in terms of smell and lubricity but I didn't notice a huge decrease in tool chipping. It is probably the same as far as chip clearing goes which was already adequately done with the other one. Probably about the same as far as cooling goes that I can tell, but it really excels at rust inhibition. Using this coolant you can wipe your fears or rust, it leaves everything coated in a fine oil film. The semi-synthetic Qualichem does seem to have a palette for cheap imported paint though.
Nothing. I just scrape it off when I'm shoveling out chips. Maybe one day I'll repaint it but I don't really care as long as it's not rusting, no harm in leaving it bare metal. I could powder coat it like Grimsmo but I suspect it would be a colossal undertaking to dismantle the enclosure for so little practical gain.
We use trim 585xt semi synthetic at work we like it a lot. And the haas programable coolant nozzle has it own offset you set up for it so you control where it hits the tool
I have had the tormach for 4 years now and mill motorcycle parts all the time. Don't laugh but I use rv coolant . I keep it at the right brix and it has never rusted anything I have. It might not be the best but it's cheap for my hobby and I can get it at Walmart. take care
Thank you so much for this very informative video. The coolant information for "the big boys" exists, but seems to be scattered all over the place and a lot of it doesn't apply to garage shops. This video provides a great resource for those of us just starting out and needing to make coolant decisions for the first time, but also active garage shop machinists who have been at it quite a while and getting along with whatever we're using, who maybe never considered a different method that may actually work better for their situation. I mostly do dry machining. I'm generally not trying to get the very highest rate of material removal as my machines are all low power, but I am concerned about cut quality and tool life. I concur. Chip removal is essential. I remember you discussing cooling when machining in an apartment on that Taig. Ah, the good old days!
WOW ... more things to think about . I flood now .I was thinking I should run two lines to the cutter .Its my fist week on the tormach cnc , have to walk before I can run
Yes the first week..just practicing speed and feed.next week we will be making the base plate.saw your video on yours we are stealing some ideas from you.you have the best videos on this machine out there.wish you were still in New York would have loved to met you
know that, can't play with them guns in NY, or NJ . Still playing with the cnc . drilling more holes . going to try taping some holes in 1.250 01 tool steel tomorrow 1/2 -13 tap
Generally flood coolant tanks get bacteria from either organic material being machined (I have this problem) or not enough skimming to remove the oil. We've also started aerating our coolant with a very slight air bubbler to introduce oxygen as the main bacteria that harms most flood coolant tanks can't stand it. Another thing we may try in the near future if things slow down a bit is to add some copper or silver to our system for their antibacterial properties. I'd love an air mister for when we machine steel as flood cooling isn't the best option at all, in fact it's not ideal at all. But boss man says you go ahead and try without. I do so often with better tool life than without but only on open profiling. How much cfm do you think your system takes to operate effectively? Seems like a lot but I could be wrong.
Great vid as usual John! Made for a good lunch break. I've been using the Tormach Premier Synthetic (which as Juan Aviles said they have now changed to something else) for almost 3 years and in most ways it's great. There is practically no smell, it NEVER gets stanky/moldy/gross, seems to lubricate well enough when it's rich enough, it's clear like water so filming is easier, but it rusts pretty badly and ate some paint, causing more rust. I do love flood coolant, but it is messy. I've also got the Fog Buster that I use for some jobs, and it's wonderful. You can use any coolant in it and it seems to last forever. I only run it at 5-8psi and it seems like a crazy amount of air coming out the nozzle. I haven't found the need to turn it up higher than that.
Nice video. When you used your Trico in the basement, was the smell detectable in the rest of the house? Looks like the Trico could easily be moved between a lathe and mill. Is that right? Thank you.
good to find these videos. I just switched from food processing maintenance to a hydraulic cylinder manufacturer. any advice on where to check online for basic maintenance procedures on mazak or Bardons & Oliver machines? we have the manuals in our tool shop, but I'd like to have something at my fingertips 24/7 to study off-site.
If you would like to make this as simple as possible on yourself, get away from water based coolants altogether. We have machines that require water based coolants such as turning centers and large hog-outs. As you seem to be concerned for the maintenance involved as well as rust protection, consider going to a full veggie or mineral oil. It is a higher viscosity but your pump should have no problem running it. It will not flow as hard but it also requires very minimal maintenance and is rust proof to your machine. We can run machines for years with it without doing anything other than passing it through a high micron filter. In fact it also helps the machines moving parts. If we are running steel, we only run a full oil coolant as it does much better for the parts and tools. If you would like proof for yourself, write a small program that does a drill, bore, ream cycle and do one part with your current system. With another part, fill a spray bottle with veggie or mineral oil and spray it on the tool abundantly while it is reaming and check out the difference. Best of luck.
10DM Would be at the very top of the price range but great lifespan. Blaser has some pretty good options for that and others. Although vegetable oil might give you some surprising results, I think mineral might be the way to go as it generally handles the fine chip particles a bit better. Either way, its a win. Your investment into oil will last you a long long time and surprisingly enough, you can film in it for the most part.
its been a lot of years but it seems every shop ends up going thru the cooling"challenge"lol.With small shops with just one or two mills/lathes most seem to start with misters...which means its always a fight between enough flow at workpiece and air quality in the shop..get a little larger or tired of oily residue on everything in the building then we all seem to move to flood cooling which definitely has its place for some things..but ya have to deal with keeping the mix/water ratio right and filtering/skimming/biocide.We finaly got tired of it and let a salesman convince us to try a microdot lube system...basically the same as ya have there tho with fewer options.We did stick with flood on the Fadal and the big slant bed but basicaly just because of the enclosures and chip conveyors.
Just wondering how does the coolant oil effect powder coating and what do you use to clean your part before powder coating. Great videos learned a lot from your channel.
When I was at the AMB in Stuttgart, they even used "through spindle cooling" to stabilise a - so far I remember corretly - 1mm drill. That was awesome. And great video again. www.messe-stuttgart.de/en/amb/visitors/ *This comment does not contain any sort of sarcasm or irony*
Hi John, nice vid. I made my flood coolant sys for my tormach 770. The machine is out in the garage in Michigan so freezing is an issue for me. The reservoir is made from a rubber maid tub. The trough is made from wood (drew it up in cad) cut the detials in the cnc router i built. glued and screwed. Sprayed on a rubber coating seems to be holding up well theres a screen in the bottom for chips they never reach the reservoir . I use rv solution mix with full synthetic both are biodegradable (so it says). I have a hose to flood and with a valve i have a hose to clean the machine. works great and cost nothing to make my kinda project. Later
Yeah loved your vid but Haas do over commercialize their videos with saying its for company's you could use one just fine , you should defiantly ask them for sponsorship they may take it as a joke or you make get sponsored no harm in asking right ?
Yeah, just the cutter though. Instead of using thru-coolant, they pump small amounts of CO2/N2 through the cutter. I bet it would be super clean, and odorless .
They really are so cool looking and drilling with tsc is so much better. I used 120 meter cut and ~800mm feeds with 25mm drills just because I was able to with tsc.
There is a dossan hp440 at work threw spindle coolant and the machine has about 6 lock lines that are 1\2 inch. the pressure that comes out of the locline is comparable to a pressure washer its amazing. i see this machine hourly take a 1 inch rougher at 1 inch doc 40ipm 12000rpm no problem . the coolant smells just like peanut oil.... At home I use cool mist unit im happy with it. I dont use there coolant. I run low coolant very low like you high air pressure. Sure if I crank my coolant knob up the shop gets yucky. There is a fine line. You cant even see by eye what comes out but its there.
NYC CNC Its wild.The doosan is a horizontal, it has a rotary table as the main work table attached to the rotary is a tomb stone. The gcode the same as a vertical if your using the tomb stone. Tell me when your in ct next might be able to make it happen.
Just get one of these programmable timer relays & a solenoid valve, keeps my psi at around 80 psi. www.ebay.com/itm/6-30V-Relay-Module-Switch-Trigger-Time-Delay-Circuit-Timer-Cycle-Adjustable-/272437311789?hash=item3f6e87792d:g:a3UAAOSwA3dYG-5V
why not just mount the coolant nozzels on the table so theyrre always pointing at the work piece? you've got 2 of them so unless your doing a huge part there should work
John, Speaking of Arduino based coolant systems you have to check this guy out, he's done most of the work and has the code posted to his blog. Here is a video of the first trial with Mach3: ua-cam.com/video/_tZ03tWGnL8/v-deo.html&x-yt-ts=1422579428 Mike
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I have an older 1100. I bought it with the base and flood cooling system. And immediately ran into problems with it. I don't know if the newer models are designed differently now ... The short version of the story is that I redesigned almost every aspect of it and here is what I have now:
I bought a couple gallons of epoxy, the kind used for fiberglass repair. Pulled the mill out of the base, cleaned up the base, tilted it, and poured the epoxy in. Now I have a sloped surface for the fluid to run back toward the drain. Before I did that the reservoir would run dry on me right in the middle of a deep pocket cut and it would stop evacuating chips.
I cut up a sheet of Lexan to lie flat inside the enclosure on both sides of the mill. They catch most of the chips so the chips don't wash under the mill and make a dam that stops coolant from going back the the drain, right where it is almost impossible to clean them out. Makes a nice flat surface so when you are making piles of chips you can scoop them out with a dustpan real easy. This also stops using the screen in the drain as the only chip-catcher. The screen gets stopped up real quick and makes the reservoir run dry for fun surprises. Now it's no more problem.
I used the same Lexan to make splash shields that fit all around the enclosure. They just sit in the sides and back. When you're making chips right they fly a long way, these catch them and keep them off the wall. They also keep the coolant in the machine. I made two special ones; one that has slots so it fits over the front of the vise, just slips on and off. That keeps chips from building up on the accordion at the front of the machine (that's the one that gets compressed down to zero and compacting chips in the folds is not good for it). The other one has a few brackets bolted on so it just slips over the front of the machine when the vise is not mounted. The result is total chip and coolant containment except for some of the flingers you get when you're drilling.
I ran larger piping and hoses from the pump all the way to the spindle. The originals were way too small and the pump drinks easier now. I attached the vertical run to the back wall, put a tee there and a check valve. The check valve gets rid of that variable delay when you turn coolant on, so you don't have to worry about melting a tool while it hogs away dry while waiting for that first gush. The tee is hosed two ways -- one to the spindle and the other to a bulkhead fitting, valve, and short length of garden hose with a nozzle on it that hangs on the front of the machine. That's useful for clearing most of the chips off the vise and workpiece before going after them with air. That way you aren't blowing chips across the shop, into your ways, and into the sensitive areas of your vise. And you can chase them into a pile with the nozzle, rinse them off the table, etc. Saves time.
The other side of the tee goes to the spindle, where there is a ball valve mounted right to the side of the casting, and some of that ball joint tubing/hose stuff arranged with three nozzles, each one with a valve on it. It's real nice to have flow from three directions when you're doing deep pockets and it's real nice to have more than enough flow to spooge the chips out.
After making the newbie mistake of trying synthetic, I switched to Blaser (can't remember the formulation but will look it up if asked). I use it at higher than recommended concentration. No rust ever, and the stuff positively won't spoil. It doesn't eat the paint, either. The film someone else mentioned is a rust preventive and I am happy to rinse it off just by hosing it down with the same coolant after a period of inactivity. It lubricates well enough that I was able to do a bunch of deep holes in aluminum, where the other synthetic stuff ended up with chips welded to the tool and gumming up the flutes and busting off the bit in the material. Night and day difference. The refusal to go sour means I can use a wet vac to clean up chips. Huge time saver, and again way better than compressed air.
Anyway my amateur opinion is that the time spent redesigning that cooling system more than paid back in reduced maintenance, let alone productivity.
I don't know if this wall of text is clear enough to help anyone, maybe I should just shoot a little video of my own when I get the time.
I also added a counterweight, don't know if anyone is interested, but it got rid of a headache with the Z axis. There was a pretty good difference in height depending on which direction it was traveling when it stopped. And now I don't have to scrinch down the ways to stop it from wrecking itself when I turn it off.
Hope this helps.
Wyatt Storches Hello Wyatt, I'd be interested in getting the formula of that Blaser coolant. I went to their website and they don't have any prices listed. I hate that. Was it the B-Cool stuff? How much did it cost? Thanks. Mike
+Wyatt Storches good infomation Wyatt, what is the formula of Blaser you use thankyou
That is a gold standard of a post. Several good ideas (I like the check valve especially, good solution), and clearly written as well. Thanks mate!
John I see what you did there man. In no way am I inflicting my beliefs or way of machining on anyone or you. To each their own with flood or not it always works and you adapt your methods around your cutting fluid. Your series are always great to watch because its not always about pumping out parts and doing everything to save a tool to run one more part its about the joy. Keep up the good work man. From the big guy to the little.
I have made up a couple of coolant systems of this style for a lot less money. You can use an air line lubricator and just use your cutting oil or coolant of your choice. Once set they work great on saws. You may need to adjust the size of the jet inside and then you adjust the pressure of the air feeding it. A lot of CNC's will have spare outputs on their plc that are not used and only need an M code to activate. You could use this for your extra coolant setup you are talking about.
Cheers
My coolant weigh-in. I use a very high coolant concentration. At least 30 percent. It's the stuff tormach sells. That 30 percent SEEMS to really cut down on rust, improve tool life over lower percentages, but eats paint like it's nothing, and does seem to get skunky looking pretty quickly, but luckily, not smelly.
Congrats on the ATC!
That coolant nozzle aiming project sounds incredible - can't wait to see that!
Large job shop here (20+ cnc machines). Regarding flood coolant, AVOID fully synthetic coolant like the plague. I don't care what the salesman or your buddy who runs it says - that's where you get rust problems (ask me about $10k+ in replaced ballscrews & bearings). I know of several machine manufacturers who will go so far as voiding warranties if you run full synthetic coolant. Use a good semi-synthetic, keep a check on it with a refract and you'll be fine. A simple fish tank aerator can be enough agitation to keep the smell down if you have that problem, and use a skimmer if you get too thick a layer of oil on top. I've used Trim, Castrol, Milacron, Blaser, but have found Qualichem to be the best I've ever seen. Controls the rust (and we run a lot of cast iron), doesn't build up a gooey film (like the Blaser did), doesn't "snot" up (like the Trim did) and can go uncirculated for an incredible amount of time without stinking.
NYC CNC
Blaser performs very well. It just builds up a slippery film all over everything that's a chore to clean and dangerous to walk around on. It also tends to foam up in high pressure systems and is rather expensive.
Great tips! I am using a full synthetic and getting crazy rust. I'll be switching to Qualichem because I've heard nothing but great things about it. Even Mitee Bite uses it in their shop, that's good enough for me!
JohnGrimsmo Qualichem Xtremecut 230 is what we're using and it's fantastic stuff. Run it about 3-5% for general machining, a little richer for sawing & grinding.
JohnGrimsmo I'm using Xtreme cut 251C (for heat treated steels) and it's pretty rad. I'm keeping it at around 10% and it does really well. I mainly need it for chip clearing. No nasty smells, no crud or moldy gunk. My only complaint is that it makes the floor VERY sticky if spilled and allowed to dry. I can tell there will be absolutely ZERO issues with rust using this coolant like I was having with Kool-Aide 77. It leaves everything coated in a fine oil. In fact the rep told me NOT to clean my machine after using it, just let it sit on the table, vices, etc. It will protect them from rust.
NYC CNC
Haha, I wish I could but...there was a little mishap...you know with the drilling;)
I have an uncle who is a cnc programmer who programs haas machines all day. He doesn't know half the things you know, its a shame modern day "machinist" & cnc programmers who start out with a haas & it takes all the guess work out of machining. I feel like these professionals aren't as knowledgeable about machining than someone who started out with a weaker machine with limitations & struggles. Its great you started your work with a tormach & tiag. Btw when are we gonna see more haas videos?
I used to tap some real long drills on hardened steel.
For lubrication i use butter. REAL butter, from a legit cow.
When I have the drills, I put it in a chef-bag so i can push it down the hole.
That wil give you TWO advantages, first, of course, lubrication. BUT also excellent chip evacuation as it's a viscous material that will push the harder material up, and also lubricate the material as it flows trought the hole.
Totally agree! Chip clearing is vastly more important than cooling or lubrication. I was using the Kool-aide as flood and it worked fine for as long as I used it since it was mainly clearing chips. I had a lot of problems with rust and it was getting to be a chore trying to keep up with it. I switched to Qualichem 251C and it is much better in terms of smell and lubricity but I didn't notice a huge decrease in tool chipping. It is probably the same as far as chip clearing goes which was already adequately done with the other one. Probably about the same as far as cooling goes that I can tell, but it really excels at rust inhibition. Using this coolant you can wipe your fears or rust, it leaves everything coated in a fine oil film. The semi-synthetic Qualichem does seem to have a palette for cheap imported paint though.
Nothing. I just scrape it off when I'm shoveling out chips. Maybe one day I'll repaint it but I don't really care as long as it's not rusting, no harm in leaving it bare metal. I could powder coat it like Grimsmo but I suspect it would be a colossal undertaking to dismantle the enclosure for so little practical gain.
2007 is back in the day!? Oh Young John, God bless you for that! That landed right on my funny bone this morning.
Good job! Who would have thought that "coolant" would make such a nail biting video! Woo Buddy!
I'm no machinist, but I love watching your videos. Makes video a lot more objective when someone admits that he doesn't know everything..
We use trim 585xt semi synthetic at work we like it a lot. And the haas programable coolant nozzle has it own offset you set up for it so you control where it hits the tool
Manually set it
I have a machine with the MD-1200. I use CANOLA oil as lubricant for aluminium. Corn oil sticks.
I have had the tormach for 4 years now and mill motorcycle parts all the time. Don't laugh but I use rv coolant . I keep it at the right brix and it has never rusted anything I have. It might not be the best but it's cheap for my hobby and I can get it at Walmart. take care
i use walmart canola oil. lol, works amazing.
Thank you so much for this very informative video. The coolant information for "the big boys" exists, but seems to be scattered all over the place and a lot of it doesn't apply to garage shops. This video provides a great resource for those of us just starting out and needing to make coolant decisions for the first time, but also active garage shop machinists who have been at it quite a while and getting along with whatever we're using, who maybe never considered a different method that may actually work better for their situation.
I mostly do dry machining. I'm generally not trying to get the very highest rate of material removal as my machines are all low power, but I am concerned about cut quality and tool life. I concur. Chip removal is essential.
I remember you discussing cooling when machining in an apartment on that Taig. Ah, the good old days!
NYC CNC
Every now and then I go through my old bookmarks and I come across the one titled "Herbie the NYC CNC" (or something like that). :)
I understood your use of the word 'skanky", when referring to flood coolant; I believe the word you're looking for is"rancid".
WOW ... more things to think about . I flood now .I was thinking I should run two lines to the cutter .Its my fist week on the tormach cnc , have to walk before I can run
Yes the first week..just practicing speed and feed.next week we will be making the base plate.saw your video on yours we are stealing some ideas from you.you have the best videos on this machine out there.wish you were still in New York would have loved to met you
What happened the taxes are too high gas is through the roof and the tolls are ridiculous
know that, can't play with them guns in NY, or NJ . Still playing with the cnc . drilling more holes . going to try taping some holes in 1.250 01 tool steel tomorrow 1/2 -13 tap
do you have a video on that ?
Generally flood coolant tanks get bacteria from either organic material being machined (I have this problem) or not enough skimming to remove the oil. We've also started aerating our coolant with a very slight air bubbler to introduce oxygen as the main bacteria that harms most flood coolant tanks can't stand it. Another thing we may try in the near future if things slow down a bit is to add some copper or silver to our system for their antibacterial properties. I'd love an air mister for when we machine steel as flood cooling isn't the best option at all, in fact it's not ideal at all. But boss man says you go ahead and try without. I do so often with better tool life than without but only on open profiling. How much cfm do you think your system takes to operate effectively? Seems like a lot but I could be wrong.
Great vid as usual John! Made for a good lunch break. I've been using the Tormach Premier Synthetic (which as Juan Aviles said they have now changed to something else) for almost 3 years and in most ways it's great. There is practically no smell, it NEVER gets stanky/moldy/gross, seems to lubricate well enough when it's rich enough, it's clear like water so filming is easier, but it rusts pretty badly and ate some paint, causing more rust.
I do love flood coolant, but it is messy. I've also got the Fog Buster that I use for some jobs, and it's wonderful. You can use any coolant in it and it seems to last forever. I only run it at 5-8psi and it seems like a crazy amount of air coming out the nozzle. I haven't found the need to turn it up higher than that.
Nice video. When you used your Trico in the basement, was the smell detectable in the rest of the house? Looks like the Trico could easily be moved between a lathe and mill. Is that right? Thank you.
good to find these videos. I just switched from food processing maintenance to a hydraulic cylinder manufacturer. any advice on where to check online for basic maintenance procedures on mazak or Bardons & Oliver machines? we have the manuals in our tool shop, but I'd like to have something at my fingertips 24/7 to study off-site.
Anyone know where this 80% ar lower video is? Not the AR9... thanks
If you would like to make this as simple as possible on yourself, get away from water based coolants altogether. We have machines that require water based coolants such as turning centers and large hog-outs. As you seem to be concerned for the maintenance involved as well as rust protection, consider going to a full veggie or mineral oil. It is a higher viscosity but your pump should have no problem running it. It will not flow as hard but it also requires very minimal maintenance and is rust proof to your machine. We can run machines for years with it without doing anything other than passing it through a high micron filter. In fact it also helps the machines moving parts. If we are running steel, we only run a full oil coolant as it does much better for the parts and tools. If you would like proof for yourself, write a small program that does a drill, bore, ream cycle and do one part with your current system. With another part, fill a spray bottle with veggie or mineral oil and spray it on the tool abundantly while it is reaming and check out the difference. Best of luck.
10DM Would be at the very top of the price range but great lifespan. Blaser has some pretty good options for that and others. Although vegetable oil might give you some surprising results, I think mineral might be the way to go as it generally handles the fine chip particles a bit better. Either way, its a win. Your investment into oil will last you a long long time and surprisingly enough, you can film in it for the most part.
its been a lot of years but it seems every shop ends up going thru the cooling"challenge"lol.With small shops with just one or two mills/lathes most seem to start with misters...which means its always a fight between enough flow at workpiece and air quality in the shop..get a little larger or tired of oily residue on everything in the building then we all seem to move to flood cooling which definitely has its place for some things..but ya have to deal with keeping the mix/water ratio right and filtering/skimming/biocide.We finaly got tired of it and let a salesman convince us to try a microdot lube system...basically the same as ya have there tho with fewer options.We did stick with flood on the Fadal and the big slant bed but basicaly just because of the enclosures and chip conveyors.
Thank you - very informative -
We use "Trim E206" with great results, just can't have the coolant on when filming or you won't see anything.
Daewoo Puma 240, I believe it has a 10gpm/50psi pump.
Qualichem 250c and 231 are pretty good.
Just wondering how does the coolant oil effect powder coating and what do you use to clean your part before powder coating. Great videos learned a lot from your channel.
When I was at the AMB in Stuttgart, they even used "through spindle cooling" to stabilise a - so far I remember corretly - 1mm drill. That was awesome. And great video again.
www.messe-stuttgart.de/en/amb/visitors/
*This comment does not contain any sort of sarcasm or irony*
John - why do you no longer use the Trico? Did you have problems with it?
Hi John, nice vid. I made my flood coolant sys for my tormach 770. The machine is out in the garage in Michigan so freezing is an issue for me. The reservoir is made from a rubber maid tub. The trough is made from wood (drew it up in cad) cut the detials in the cnc router i built. glued and screwed. Sprayed on a rubber coating seems to be holding up well theres a screen in the bottom for chips they never reach the reservoir . I use rv solution mix with full synthetic both are biodegradable (so it says). I have a hose to flood and with a valve i have a hose to clean the machine. works great and cost nothing to make my kinda project. Later
got it
Does the Trico MD-1200 require an air compressor? If so, any recommendations?
Great Video John
Where did you purchase your Trico from?
Willy
@nyc cnc that's so funny I was just watching the through all haas's coolant videos yesterday ?!?
Yeah loved your vid but Haas do over commercialize their videos with saying its for company's you could use one just fine , you should defiantly ask them for sponsorship they may take it as a joke or you make get sponsored no harm in asking right ?
Do you use the synthetic or vegetable based coolant?
I think cryogenic machining is amazing. I've never had the chance to use it, but I've seen videos where people cut inconel, and require it.
Yeah, just the cutter though. Instead of using thru-coolant, they pump small amounts of CO2/N2 through the cutter. I bet it would be super clean, and odorless
.
No idea! I bet its crazy expensive to use though... :(
lol
Some things you can't live, or machine without. One is tsc.
They really are so cool looking and drilling with tsc is so much better. I used 120 meter cut and ~800mm feeds with 25mm drills just because I was able to with tsc.
There is a dossan hp440 at work threw spindle coolant and the machine has about 6 lock lines that are 1\2 inch. the pressure that comes out of the locline is comparable to a pressure washer its amazing. i see this machine hourly take a 1 inch rougher at 1 inch doc 40ipm 12000rpm no problem . the coolant smells just like peanut oil....
At home I use cool mist unit im happy with it. I dont use there coolant. I run low coolant very low like you high air pressure. Sure if I crank my coolant knob up the shop gets yucky. There is a fine line. You cant even see by eye what comes out but its there.
NYC CNC
Its wild.The doosan is a horizontal, it has a rotary table as the main work table attached to the rotary is a tomb stone. The gcode the same as a vertical if your using the tomb stone.
Tell me when your in ct next might be able to make it happen.
NYC CNC
Im in waterbury. I work for B&A macine out of milford.
I didn't have time to carefully watch the whole video. I know you have a Trico MD-1200, but do you have the manual or automatic version?
Just get one of these programmable timer relays & a solenoid valve, keeps my psi at around 80 psi.
www.ebay.com/itm/6-30V-Relay-Module-Switch-Trigger-Time-Delay-Circuit-Timer-Cycle-Adjustable-/272437311789?hash=item3f6e87792d:g:a3UAAOSwA3dYG-5V
why not just mount the coolant nozzels on the table so theyrre always pointing at the work piece? you've got 2 of them so unless your doing a huge part there should work
All these guys running through spindle coolant...and here I stand with a spray bottle of WD-40. lmfao.
+Warndog WD-40 I find doesn't make a difference but Pro-WD40 with White Lithium HOLY COW It changed my life give it a shot!
Eee... Why didn't you done this by youself?
I did my Fogless mister for about 100$ for whole unit... (and 5 units with valves and jets)
John,
Speaking of Arduino based coolant systems you have to check this guy out, he's done most of the work and has the code posted to his blog. Here is a video of the first trial with Mach3: ua-cam.com/video/_tZ03tWGnL8/v-deo.html&x-yt-ts=1422579428
Mike
In the 70's we had "Soluble oil" . OMG, the stank would make you puke.
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It is a one time investment, ROI within 4-6 Months, Saves on input of fresh oil and disposal cost like etp treatment, or giving it to authorised recycler.
These mineral oil based coolant are prone to generation of bacteria which produces foul odour, often from hydrogen sulfide [rotten egg smell].
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Enjoy the coolant being running without changing it, just keep the coolant healthy