Stewart Copeland Snare Hack? | Season Four, Episode 38
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Stewart Copeland’s snare sound throughout his time with the Police is frequently referenced and sought after. From the chrome over brass drum itself to the combination of die cast and triple flange hoops, the head choice to the muffling, there’s lots of speculation and commentary. One aspect that seems to be debated without any substantive exploration is his use of a towel around the drum, so we set out to explore the impact with surprising results.
Wondering about how we attached that towel? We used a Drumgee! sladl.ink/Drum...
PATREON:
This season is made possible by our Patreon supporters. Join us on Patreon for access exclusive content such as Cymbal Sounds, our long awaited cymbal series, and MUCH more: sladl.ink/Patreon
PRODUCTION PARTNERS:
GIK Acoustics (sonic treatment): sladl.ink/GIK
AKG Audio (microphones): sladl.ink/AKG
Evans Drumheads: sladl.ink/Evan...
ProMark Drumsticks: sladl.ink/ProM...
Signal chain:
Mics - Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB & OctoPre - MacPro w/Pro Tools 12.8
Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Overheads: (Matched Pair in Glyn Johns - Cardioid) AKG C314 sladl.ink/C314...
Snare & Toms: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Kick Drum: AKG D12vr sladl.ink/AKGD...
No EQ or compression in use with drum demos unless otherwise noted
Acoustic Treatment:
GIK 242 Acoustic Panels: sladl.ink/GIK242
GIK 4A Alpha Pro Series Diffusor/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIK4...
GIK Evolution PolyFusor Combination Sound Diffuser/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIKE...
GIK Tri-Trap Corner Bass Trap: sladl.ink/GIKT...
Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra w/70’s Ludwig LM400 Supraphonic
Cymbals:
14” old K clone by Jesse Simpson over Zildjian New Beat Top, 20” Jesse Simpson Custom Ride
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G1 / Snare Side 300
Toms: NA
Kick Drum: Evans UV EMAD / EQ3 Coated White Reso
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
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I have watched a number of your videos now, and I think this is the first time I have seen you explicitly mention the scientific method, but it has been clear to me that you really practice that all the time. Your videos about tuning are so much more helpful than most videos, which simply say "do this".
Thanks for noticing! That’s really the key, because results may vary and the process for experimentation is far more valuable than the exact recipe itself. Cheers!
I think Stewart has the best snare sound ever heard!
interesting...I had read that Stewart had that towel there to dry his hands when they got sweaty. LOL! Funny the stuff we hear along the way. Protecting his leg makes sense.
I was thinking the same thing about protecting his leg.
Incredible how people can make up stories based on what they see in a photo, right?
@@SoundsLikeADrum yeah I was just about to comment it’s obviously for his leg to stop from scrapping against the drum. But something like this would be cool as an April fools joke haha.
Generally, most drummers like to dry their hands by shaking them back and forth. Using a towel causes friction, which creates more sweat.
I just love this channel so much. I feel like I've learned more in the last little while just watching these than I have with years and years of watching other content on the internet.
Imo their early videos are really something to dig into
Copeland wore shorts often, short shorts, and given his energetic body movements, the towel was an improvised way to protect his leg from being cut by snare parts.
I remember, somewhere around the “Ghost In The Machine” tour, someone asked him about the towel on the right side (drummer perspective) of his snare, and he said that it protected his leg, since he normally wore shorts when he played.
I saw a show on that tour, and the towel was there, and the towel extended down below the bottom of the snare side head. I remember reading that the towel also kept some of the batter side of the kick sound from getting into the bottom snare microphone. May have been a recommendation from their FOH guy.
That makes sense.
Came here to say it’s pretty obvious to protect the knee.
There wouldn’t be any sonic benefit to the bottom mic.
I agree, but the snare bottom was miked on the show I saw, and also on the subsequent “Synchronicity” tour as well.
@@cozmahnut just for the record I meant the towel wouldn’t benefit the sound of the bottom snare mic.
Obv a bottom snr mic can be useful
very good demonstration as always
Excellent! I'd always assumed that it was to protect his leg--it never seemed possible to me that it could affect the sound in any way. Thanks for confirming it for me!
Great content as always. Thank you 😊
What about Akira Jimbo's last signature snare with that kind of anti harmonic rope? 🤔
That's an interesting topic worth covering at some point!
Please do one on that topic.
People often hear with their eyes. Thanks for doing this.
i always wondered about this every time i saw Copeland's snare
I've been wondering about this for a while. I've seen the photos of Stewart, and could never figure out what the purpose of it was. I also love that you used the same hoop setup as Copeland (diecast on top, triple flanged on bottom)Thanks, guys!
Good eye.
I wonder if the towel helps with sympathetic vibration between toms and snare?
You meantion using the towel to protect Stewart's leg from lugs, but personally, I have had snare mounting straps actually cut into my leg when I used to set up tightly like Stewart.
This could also be extra mass used to secure the drum in a trap case.
It is definitely a protection device. My father's Tama Imperial Star set came from Japan circa 1972/1974. The snare drum that came with it was a Star snappy snare. This snare drum became the standard for Stuart Copeland in the early days. The throw on this snare drum sticks out about 2 and a 1/2 inches on each side And has large adjustment knobs that stick out a little further. It is a solid steel mechanism that no longer has snares available for it. My dad builds his own and still uses the drum.. When I was young I noticed that Stuart Copeland was putting a towel there. I was a hard rock and metal player and constantly banging my knees or my Toms up with the snare. The the hoops on that Tama drum set are metal so I did not mess those up in any way. I eventually used some beer coozies that I modified.
Stuart used a Pearl snare.
I do the die cast on top / flanged hoop on bottom for all the toms on one of my kits. Purely for tuning stability, because I like to play a lot of heavy rim shots around the toms in my fills.
I can hear a difference with the towel, just a little less ring. It reminds me of the Yamaha Akiro Jimbo signature metal snare, which had a piece of rope to dampen the ring
I like the protective towel idea. I'm definitely gonna try it. I've ruined more than a few pairs of jeans from rubbing on the side of the snare drum.
Leg protection was my initial thought. Good to know it doesn't effect the sound.
Might try this as I'm tall and play aggressively usually in shorts.
Leg does get a little raw sometimes and the metal is cold to start with.
I usually hang a towel off a floor tom leg for sweat.
I also saw,but haven't tried yet,Neil Peart used a small fan pointed up off the side of his snare to help keep his hands dry.
my first thought was for leg cushioning/protection -though HAVE heard (& i RELY on) hanging stick bag for reducing fl tom boom...
I thought the hack was going to be "Tune your snare batter head as tight as it will go without breaking"
No hacks needed for that! Just tune it on up!
I’ve always wondered if some gorilla tape or this new tape called recovery tape that is rubbery would sound different. I think I will perform an experiment too, I always wanted to try foam packing peanuts on the inside of the drum in various amounts. I love the way you compare things side by side. Proof is undeniable when set side by side in a true test.
Just heard from another video he also used Pearl chrome over steel. The pearl referred to he would have used in Tokyo early 80s.
I always use a towel 1/4 of the snare , when using brushs know towel
They're actually is a slight difference between the towel on and off. Maybe to make it more prominent wrap the whole snare drum in a big towel
I have a take on why Stewart had a towel wrapped around his snare. He was endorsed by Tama, and used a Tama Imperialstar kit during The Police days, but his snare, he always used a Pearl. A Pearl Jupiter of some sort, not the Imperialstar snare. On all the records and all the tours, he used that same snare. So I think for that reason at some point he had to cover the sides of the snare so that people couldn't tell that it wasn't a Tama snare, and covering the Pearl logo. I could be wrong, just my two cents
Did you try tape no towel VS tape + towel?
Here is an idea: it is hanging down to the floor to block snare bleed into a possible batter side kick mic.
Great vid. I bet the hoops made a bigger dif in Stewart’s snare sound.
Don’t sweat up and corrode your chrome. Towely.
I almost brought it up a few months back but decided against it. Now I’m thinking I should mention it again….
I once helped a friend unwrap and stain a floor Tom to match his main kit. We both noticed a more open, lively tone to the Tom after removing the wrap. I wondered then if it was because it was cheap light wood on a cheap kit but now I’m wondering if a more solid shell is affected the same as a wrap, like birch or maple?
I'm of the opinion that after diameter and depth, the type of drum head has more effect on the sound than does shell material.
And how did you come to this opinion?
@@SoundsLikeADrum trying out different heads on different kits. The part that vibrates the most and moves the most air are the membranes/heads.
True. One caveat would be shell density of material * thickness. I've noticed that a deep shell which is very thick and dense will project like crazy, and a very thick, very dense shell of any depth tends to provide a wide dynamic range (this meaning it can be played extremely hard without 'topping out'). All of this is from my own subjective observations, of course.
When I saw the photos, I thought it was about his body rubbing against the snare. I was hoping to learn how to get that rim click sound that Copeland has. It's just the most incredible rim click of any drummer I've heard. Sounds like it's part equipment, but there's got to be something of his technique. Closest I've found is the live video of regatta de blanc, and it seems he's playing rim clicks with his left hand resting on the rim, so he's hitting the drum head and the other rim with the butt and tip of the drumstick at the same time...? ua-cam.com/video/OQGmaWYC4OE/v-deo.html
I think he was just protecting his knee. Judging by the taping of his fingers all bloodied and what not from that era, I'm sure he knocked his knee more than once. He gets pretty loose/wild with his playing.
I could be wrong. Just food for thought.
My guess is to help minimize the cross talk vibrations buzzing the wires, because his snare is a thinner metal shell. Much more vulnerable to that sort of thing than a wood shell I suspect.
For what it's worth, the primary cause for cross talk sympathetic resonance from the heads rather than the shell.
About that towel thing, I was told that it could create a barrier that prevents rack toms from triggering unwanted snare buzz.
Have you tested this theory because we weren’t able to generate any sort of difference in sympathetic resonance either, which makes sense based on physics.
@@SoundsLikeADrum actually I haven't tried...
Yes, but the first mistake you made was: No Coated Contolled sound Remo for the batter head, and presumably, No Ambassador Clear on Snare side. This was the only setup for Stewart Copeland's signature snare drum on the 2007-08 reunion tour. I saw all 3 shows in Chicago, and am in possession of a 2007 Stewart Copeland snare; this is the ONLY combination I will ever use for the drum.
This wasn’t a video about getting Stewart Copeland’s sound.
Once I've used a towel to positioned my snare against the racktom without scratching the racktom.
Cody, typically thorough content. What batter head did you use on the Snare?
Hey Aldo! We've got a G1 coated batter on the snare here. All gear use is noted in the description for every episode. Cheers!
Protection from the snare hitting a rack Tom?
What did you call that bungee cord? A drum jeep? I couldn't understand what you were saying. Thanks.
"Drumgee" - sladl.ink/Drumgees
I want to use this video and watch it with a real time analyzer. I thought I heard the tone of the ring drop slightly with the towel off.
I'm sure if you just asked Stewart he'd be happy to tell us why.
Pretty sure we uncovered it in this video 😉
Please do a simular video on Alex van halens snare Sound 👗
Next, his floor Tom will be wearing some Bermuda shorts?
Awesome as always! Will this work for an Acrolite as well?
Not sure what you mean in terms of it “working,” as there wasn’t any significant sonic effect from the towel.
@@SoundsLikeADrum Sorry! I meant if I used a diecast hoop on my Acro to get that sound.
can towels like this help with mic bleed? it seems like putting one on the other side would help isolate the hihat and snare mics
Potentially, though the placement around the shell really wouldn't do much at all for mic isolation.
I didn’t scroll trough all reactions, but I was thinking reduction of sympathetic snare buzz to be the application for the towel. Did you guys check that out?!
Sympathetic vibrations aren't noticeably reduced simply by placing a towel around the snare.
Having worn the fabric inside of my right knee in several pairs of strides (pants) I can see the logic of this.
It does seem to kill shell resonance
Really? You thought that there was a dramatic difference between the towel and no towel? To our ears, the the tape had significantly more impact and the removal of the towel wasn't even noticeable, particularly in blind comparisons.
@@SoundsLikeADrum I could hear a small difference in decay time. I was using in ear monitors. Seemed like the length of ring shortened. Or maybe you hit it differently. I had a friend who would stick things inside the shell of stainless snare drums. And it did kill some of the length of the ring.
@@SoundsLikeADrum it’s there; shortens the decay of the ring and reduces the diphthong a tiny bit. Subtle to the point that it’s not worth the effort to use the towel for this purpose; as opposed to create a fabric tunnel for under-side mics. Or the player’s comfort purpose you pointed out.
I wonder though, was the towel covering the port hole of the shell during testing? That’s an area I often close mic, albeit at an angle to avoid plosives, for a more compressed, mid-ranged and consistent sounding ring tone than the top or bottom mics typically generate.
Hey idk if this is the place to ask a question like this but I find that my drums always sound way better with my ear protection in (airpod pros) is this an issue with the drums? Should I focus more on tuning without the ear protection in? I worry wether or not the audience is hearing these sounds too
Definitely tune without the hearing protection
It's so you can do the washing up at the same time
Awesome video you are so funny
70's shorts were very short - your leg wasn't covered next to your snare - made your thigh get raw after long sessions... I have this problem when playing nude.
The towel is really for his right leg
I heard a difference in the top ringing tones...less ring with the taped towel.
Shoutout to the scientific process for this one..
Would be funny to discover it was ONLY to keep his leg from rubbing on the snare during recordings....LOL
Unrelated, but if anyone is looking for additional resources for drum tuning and science, check out ‘Drum Sound And Drum Tuning” by Rob Toulson. Sounds like a drum is even referenced in it!
I always figured that he did it so he didn't bruise his knee. I've definitely thought of it.
It's so the bass drum mic doesn't pick up the snare rattle on the rear kick mic.
🤔
Maybe it’s just to hide that he was using a Pearl snare as he did on the records!!! Tama wouldn’t like to see😂
This almost certainly is about protecting his leg and has nothing to do with sound.
I've played shows where I was so lost in my playing that I failed to notice my pant leg rubbing against the snare drum. I've got jeans that are visibly frayed from rubbing against a snare drum.
Which is the same conclusion we came to through this video. Of course, we wanted to actually demonstrate that this was the case.
It will take some of the ring out of the shell especially a metal shell gives a bit of a drier sound
But it didn’t…
Eventually Stew got rid of the towel and got a rubber snare !! 🍺 😂 👍
OK... >An Octave Higher, >RIM SHOT ON EVERY STRIKE! IMHO
TBH I always thought it was to have a towel readily available for the sweaty moments.
He also wore shorts most of the time.
Might have been his sweat towel, jk
And, get off the DOPE; it'll make you a much better player!
Excuse me?
You may be missing the obvious, as Stewart seems always to have the towel by his leg: he may just have kept hitting it during gigs wearing shorts! Ouch!
Did you watch the whole episode? 😉
@@SoundsLikeADrum no... lol
Hi!
Can you suggest the best combination to get a fat and snappy rock sound from a snare, knowing the drummer *won't* hit the rimshot?
Since it makes all the difference, maybe you can point me to some work-around.
Thanks!
Thanks you for bringing me the knowledge of the drum. You explain everything I ever imagine. the drum theory or the science behind the recording. Even the myth!
As soon as you said "right side of snare", I thought "leg". Remember too that he is a pretty tall fellow. That might have had a bearing on positioning. Cheers, - Ed
Seems to me he's just protecting his right knee.