I can't really argue with points in this video, but as a kid I loved the concept of getting reality bomb. Davros being so insane, so infuriated that the Daleks keep failing, that he completely jumps the shark and decides to just destroy all of reality itself. If Davros can't have his perfect vision of a Dalek dominated universe, then he will destroy all universes, because anything else is disgusting to him.
Agreed. Journey's End was plagued by the Daleks not being a credible threat. Yeah, there were stories beforehand that made them look silly (looking at "The Chase") but when there's giant buildup over the course of 3 years showing how powerful a threat even one Dalek presents, having them get defeated by Donna pressing some buttons and having them spin around like Beyblades totally undermines them
Yes all the building to the threat of Dangerous Daleks Gone. Now they are Goofy metal boxes. Why didn't they bring other aliens for the part 2?. It would have developed the story more.
I feel like “The Time of the Doctor” did the Daleks well. They took out a faction of the Silence, a group that were hidden villains of series 5 and the main antagonists of series 6. They also essentially won only being defeated because the Doctor got another regeneration cycle.
To me, the Reality Bomb was Davros' hypothetical virus the 4th Doctor talked to him about. In that, I don't mind the reality bomb. But I do find it odd that, if he created these particular Daleks from his own cells, why would they usurp him? I get that they may not have seen him as one of them, but the "Imperial Daleks" seemed fully capable of accepting Davros as their leader and master. So that kinda throws me.
I always imagined that the Dalek Supreme (and probably.a few others) is actually a Time War Dalek, also rescued by Caan, and he forced Davros to make more out of his own body. Hence, these Daleks are not loyal to him because the Supreme prevented him from doing that.
It depends how long this empire has been in the making. Seeing Tge Dalek Emperor had a functioning flagship, and took at least 200 years to make 500,000 Daleks, I presume Davros and the Crucible had been there at least a thousand to expand towhere they are in Journeys End, it's completely understandable, even with the same conditioning of tge the Imperial Daleks, for a Supreme to usurp the empire. The Imperial Daleks were a short lived Dalek faction (I'd expect less than 30 years in universe, as they were still in a civil war to conquer their homeworld during their destruction)
The Reality Bomb is Davros's insane idea. It also proves the Supreme Dalek was a fool, because he agreed to Davros's ideas and Dalek Caan's insane rabblings that are a Doctor Who version of the Oracle of Delphi, that is they have double meanings. Probably though the story could have benefited from being a three parter, because too much was crammed into the last part.
Scenes of the Daleks spinning around and being shoved about felt very much like a call-back to the Cushing films (Where one Dalek is defeated by having a tarp thrown over it). But I'm pretty sure it wasn't an intentional call-back. As for the Reality Bomb, it simply highlighted the ultimate problem with Dalek society; what would they do if they succeeded? What if they did exterminate all other lifeforms in the universe and became the single remaining life? What would they do? And if they annihilated all forms of matter so only the Crucible and two dozens planets were left in existence, the existential horror of their own existence only grows worse. Especially for Davros. "Yay, I've won! Now I'm stuck on this space station for the rest of the time with a bunch of purposeless death-machines..."
I would certainly disagree about the reality bomb, if the Daleks won the time war they would probably just rewrite time, their hate has always been destroying everything, enabling them to take a quick method. they want to kill everything, conquest was just the easiest method they had. The best part of jubilee is when the doctor points out that no matter what, a dalek victory will just leave the Daleks purposeless and they will turn on each other. Such a quick campaign, a simple bomb, hammers this in. They are so blinded by their hate that they fail to realize how quickly their purpose will vanish, they never even considered that possibility, the dalek in jubilee only thinks of it because the doctor points it out
Also, that lone dalek saucer surviving the destruction scenes listing to the right of the screen, it was intentional by RTD for that to happen i would've preferred it if a few dalek saucers survived and posed more of a threat in victory of the daleks maybe the red and gold supreme could've gotten a ride out of the crucible explosion and been the boss dalek in victory even arguing with the paradgim supreme
Part of what I really liked about the New Dalek Paradigm, is that it just allowed the Daleks to exist as a faction without contriving a reason for their return. Davis had a problem of making the threat far too big and then having to deus ex machina his way out of it. As a result, we see massive Dalek fleets destroyed on three seperate occasions during his run, each time supposedly destroying them once and for all.
I agree, I much prefer having the Daleks as an ever-present threat lurking out there in the universe, than have them be wiped out 'for good' in every series finale only to have us all pretending to act surprised when they inevitably show up again
I agree for the most part. I don't agree with you on the reality bomb, but I DO kinda think it's overkill. It's just... where do you go from there? After the Daleks have threatened the whole of reality, how do you one-up that? I don't mind seeing Daleks get destroyed by heavy weaponry. Arming soldiers or resistance with anti-tank weaponry or something makes sense against the Daleks. It's mainly that ending with the Doctor-Donna pushing the "instant win" button that irks me so much. It's like they wrote themselves into a corner and didn't know how to end resolve the conflict so they pulled a deus ex machina. It's a little ridiculous.
You know what, I TOTALLY agree. Despite Journey’s End being a top-tier episode, it does do the Daleks dirty. I think they should’ve kept Jack’s gun a one-off and made Pete’s World Guns need to recharge like the teleporters. All your points are dead on. Russell focused too much on the characters and overall impact/big picture and didn’t care about the smaller details because he got the emotional reaction. The episode holds up but it’s not one of his best. I still think he’s the best Dalek tv writer since Terry Nation and you’re right, I think he’ll take his experiences forward to improve his writing across the board from next year. This episode should’ve ended with a defeat in victory and unleashed the Dalek Empire on the universe again. It would automatically explain so many world building failures in future episodes.
In defense of the Reality Bomb, this is the logical conclusion of Davros' virus scene. Davros *would* do this sort of thing simply to prove that it could be done. That's just who he is. And the Daleks have never particularly cared how they'd conquer the universe or what state it'd be in once they were done. And the whole thing takes place in the Medusa Cascade. A place out of sync with the multiverse. There is only *one* Medusa Cascade in all of creation. It's the exception to the rule. But this is just my humble opinion, at any rate.
@Dalek Bumps Thanks! To your point, I do have some issues with how Donna and the Metacrisis were handled. They seemed more like plot devices than actual characters. And the Metacrisis seemed to have just been a way to give a budget Doctor to Rose. Even Billie Piper wasn't happy with how it was handled. And they could've used some more build-up to not devalue Davros and the Daleks.
YEAH uhuh amen. Thank you for saying what we’re all thinking!!! Like don’t get me wrong, journey’s end is a fun episode if you’re looking at it as a fan of the doctor and you’re watching it for Caan, but other than that, it’s hard to watch. Even the Daleks who aren’t spinning explode remotely?? Why???? And I think this episode is why I have so much resent towards Davros. Because the reality bomb didn’t make any sense for the Daleks-it made sense for Davros, as a character who is just so maddened by life and existence that he wants to get rid of all of it for the sake of his own ego. Seeing this episode as I caught up on Doctor Who as a young teenager really created the idea I had that when Davros gets introduced, the Daleks become nothing but underlings for him in the writing; that writers tend to focus more on Davros when he’s present, a villain who’s easier to write maniacally and complexly instead of venturing out and trying to write the Daleks in that compelling villainous way. I really think this episode was the root of my anti-Davros sentiment, just because seemed to feel like Davros’s presence was the odd part out that caused the Daleks to feel so flat and less powerful in Journey’s End.
I like Journey's End as it was my first episode of Doctor Who. I always saw the Reality Bomb as being Davros' delusional mind at work rather than the Daleks' own plan. If they made it as, the Doctor and his companions reverse the detonation of the Reality Bomb onto the Crucible and the Dalek Supreme simply orders the Dalek fleet to spread out through time and space to escape their destruction, that might have worked out better
I can see where your coming from and the points make sense, however I think that the methodology and the ending were just basically bring them up so far for them to fall. Plus I think Russell was trying up series 1 and 2 in regards to how deadly the daleks were as we’ve already seen them just decimate everything and then showing through just 4 daleks how they can still do way more damage. Series 3 focused more on the survival aspect so the deadly part wasn’t focused on as much and didn’t need to be cause well we had series 1 and 2 as the base. Still an enjoyable episode and ending to a series I think
I have never accepted the 'it takes six people to pilot a TARDIS' idea. I think the design was to enable ONE person to be able to effectively reach the necessary controls. After all the Master has never had 5 other people to comfortably get where he wants to go, the Rani similarly travelled to Miasimia Goria - then to Earth to steal chemicals from Industrial Age workers. She didn't need the Master's help to fly her own (sabotaged by the Doctor) TARDIS, and she seemed pretty in control when she was cooking up the big brain plot. And when has the Doctor since the reboot needed companions to help him fly his own TARDIS? Even his first incarnation commented that Capaldi's Doctor seemed better able to steer the Ship.
3:17 The reality bomb was not "doomed to fail"- it actually SUCCEEDED, as prior the Doctor getting involved everyone was noticing that the stars were disappearing, and Rose and co even noticed this from a parallel universe. The failing of the reality bomb from the perspective of the Daleks is that their arch-enemy is a time-traveller and can- and does- go back to before it works and undoes it.
What about if they stop making Unit useless and let them go "Oh Daleks, yeah we had years to level up" as it was suggested in battlefield and have them able to not defeat them but be a headache for the Daleks, that would eventually be overrun as humanity at this point cannot fight a war against the Daleks that way the Daleks can still be a threat and you don't need to use the spinning dalek plot point as a way to end the story.
Needing each control panel of the TARDIS to be manned to have the TARDIS work as intended is the dumbest shit RTD has ever done (well till he came back, and I never thought he was a good show runner to begin with) The different panels on the TARDIS all do something different, only 1 is flight control/navigation and most of that was done by computer. Some of the others are: one is external information (planet and atmospheric readings), another gives info about whats happening inside the TARDIS (environmental/engine status/lay out), one is for communications, one for scanner control, controls for external appearance. Doing it like how it is shown would be like needing all 5 people in a car to man different aspects to drive it properly; one person on gas, one person on breaks, one for the stealing wheel, one person to do signals. If needing multiple people to pilot the TARDIS was necessary we would have seen Romana doing more when she and the Doctor were traveling. In The Pirate Planet we see Romana reading the user manual of the TARDIS. If the manual said you need more then just one person, she would have told the Doctor to man some of the other controls as to make a smooth materialization.
Jack: "You got lucky, that was just a one shot wonder, its just junk now" ---- Journeys End ---- Jack: Kills daleks with "one shot wonder defabricator". Rose: Bro, you could have done that on satellite 5 :(" XD
Definetly an episode that got worse the more I thought about it, but I enjoyed it when it aired. Like you said, they very much cheapen the daleks and their ultimate defeat plays into the classic formula of 'villian reveals plan, doctor uses mcguffin to blow them to smithereens' only the mcguffin felt so weird like why would the daleks have a control panel that could just blow up their entire species with a few twists of a dial and the pull of a lever? As for the reality bomb, its a cool concept, but runs into that major plothole you mentioned. I really do like the buildup of the planets going missing etc and the prelude to the daleks plan, so I would keep it in personally, but maybe scale it back to be something more interesting and fitting for the daleks. Perhaps they intend to wipe the doctor out from all of space-time or across all realites? Runs into the same issues but I think scaling it back to the doctor makes it more interesting to develop the 'personality' of the daleks and also is more explainable with 'le timey wimey stuff' schtick they pull whenver the plot doesn't make sense.
Although I do remember this episode fondly, the part where the daleks spin around and can be pushed about always annoyed me. I mean a human trying to move an out of control dalek should be as dangerous at trying to body slam an out of control car given how fast they can fly about. A reality bomb always seems like a weird thing Davros would make, like the daleks still want a universe to inhabit right? Would it just be a bunch of daleks floating about in the void?
Mass destruction/elimination of the Daleks has been a theme throughout the various Doctors. The first visit to Skaro saw the supposed end, as also did Resurrection and Remembrance-with scenes of mass destruction of daleks.I agree that these latter visions of mass destruction are weak plot and only serve to keep kiddies happy!The writers could do a lot better.
We need a real time war veteran Dalek, one who has been around since the beginning, survived every iteration. Pure, full of hate, and cunning enough to be a scalpel. Picturing a slightly modified bronze Dalek case with some paradigm updates like the eyestalk and slats for alternate arms and weapons, coloured in the classic silver and blue bumps like an inverted version of the doctors colours Have them take on the lesson of Sec that the Dalek must adapt but without loosing his intrinsic drive to dominate all life. Deride the Davros’s Dalek, the emperors zealots, and the new paradigm as the lost and the lunatic, and maybe use remnants of them to build the new deadly Dalek we see in the new era. Basically, the 7th Doctor in a Dalek casing and utterly evil
I understand your points, but I have to disagree. It was Davros that came up with the reality bomb (his goal was always to eliminate all other life to enable peace), and after he rebuilt the Dalek empire, the Daleks are unlikely to turn down the opportunity to use the reality bomb. As a massive Dalek fan, I never felt the Daleks were made to look weaker in the second part. They're not as efficient and ruthless as in series 1, and hardly being seen to kill anyone because they were going to die by the reality bomb anyway meant there were no scenes like when they killed everyone on floor 0 on Satellite 5. That said, I thought it was the best possible end to the Daleks (and the show itself, if there was to be an end). Donna pressing some buttons and making them spin around doesn't spoil them for me - some people question why the Daleks would have controls that would allow that in the first place, but the controls are actually to enable the Daleks to operate their casings, Donna just turns that ability off. There are parallels between JE and Evil of the Daleks, both showed the Daleks to be completely wiped out. The mistake was Moffat brought them back too soon (and cheaply - "One ship survived") because he reckons "they're not the Doctor until they've faced the Daleks". When the Daleks transport the Doctor's companions to the vault and starts counting down the reality bomb, I find myself rooting for the Daleks to finally beat the Doctor. Also, Rose destroying a Dalek to save Wilf and Sylvia was in TSE, not JE.
If it was Davros who was responsible for the Reality Bomb, Russell should have had him controlling the Daleks. There is precedent for that (Remembrance) and it's never really explained how Davros went from creating a new race of Daleks from his own cells to becoming their 'pet' locked away in the dungeon. The Daleks do very little in Journey's End, and the few things they do get to do are underwhelming, especially compared to the action-packed Stolen Earth It still doesn't make sense why there would be controls in the literal prison floor of the Dalek mothership that could in any way influence individual Dalek casings. Again, it would have made sense if it was Davros' control room, and he was in charge of the Daleks and installed those controls as a potential failsafe in case they betrayed him, but again, the lack of proper explanation debases this idea You can't blame Moffat for bringing the Daleks back. He had just become showrunner of Doctor Who, he quite rightly refused to allow his creativity to be bound by his predecessor. It's entirely Russell's fault for blowing his load and refusing to clean up the mess And yes, I know that Rose destroying the Dalek was in Stolen Earth, it's the worst scene of the episode
@@dalekbumps The Daleks are happy for Davros to have created them, but with not let him rule them as he is not a Dalek. When the reality bomb fails, the Supreme assumes Davros has betrayed them. The issue with having Davros in any story, is that it automatically takes the Daleks from centre stage.
@@dalekbumps I just assumed that the Supreme was a legitimate Time War Dalek that was rescued by Caan along with Davros- that would explain why the other Daleks were not loyal to Davros (the Supreme forced him to create them and forbade him making them loyal to him).
the reality bomb was more davros. and i think it could have been a better way for how to defeat the daleks. maybe have it play out that the daleks intended for Davros to also be a victim of the reality bomb. after everything he did for them,. literally growing them from his own body. they still see him as another inferior being. no matter what he does. so in the end he finally sees the light and betrays them. that way. you can now seperate davros and the daleks. he can still be a villian. but becomes a seperate threat from the daleks. they can still interact time from time but as angonists with eachother. have say the master and davros work together one time and create some whacky time lord mutant creature.
When i first started this video i thought you were gonna shit on one of my favourite episodes of doctor who but in fact you improved upon it and even shown flaws within the episode very clearly a true dalek fan indeed 😁
The reality bomb doesn't work as a plot device because if it destroys every universe in the multiverse, multiverse theory states that there has to be an infinite number of universes in which the reality bomb is activated. Which would... Delete all other realities. Including this one.
I just did not think the Reality Bomb made any sense for the Daleks but it is supposed to make sense for Davros as it recalls the holding a vial of deadly virus dialogue with the Fourth Doctor in Genesis. Unfortunately that does not work either as the conclusion of the rant in Genesis is Davros' affirmation that with the Daleks he will have that same power of life and death. Maybe RTD felt Davros had reached the conclusion that the Daleks were ,after all, not very good at universal domination.
Damn, I love both two episodes. But I must admit, my boys the daleks were done dirty there. I'd love to see a rewrite of Journey's end, even though it is pretty solid in my honest opinion.
I agree that before Resolution their last really great episode was The Stolen Earth, however I think you are being a bit harsh on Journey's End. People having anti-dalek weaponry isn't new and it's also a thing in The Stolen Earth. It makes sense that some of the companions would be able to arm themselves and kill a couple of Daleks, if they went on a rampage then I'd get it, but as it stands they were only used 5 times, once to save Donna's parents, once to stop the Dalek that shot the Doctor, twice to save Sarah and once against the Dalek Supreme. The reality bomb, it isn't ideal but it's all about escalation for Russell's finales and destroying literally everything is as big as you could go. It at least makes sense for the Daleks to go along with this idea since their purpose is to destroy all life. There aren't many way in which you could logically end this story that aren't a total cop out, yes the Daleks end with a spinning rave party but there is at least a consequence, Donna's memory loss and since that is such a heartbreaking departure spurred on by the Daleks then I'll let it slide. And there's something poetic about the monsters the Doctor struggle to defeat in series 1 being simple now that he has his family to help him. If they did what you suggested, maybe it would've been effective but to me it would just feel like a rehash of series 1, the Doctor reaching the same conclusion as 9 would feel strange honestly and it would take that character arch away from him. No Journeys End's biggest problems lie with the huge cast, so many companions who do nothing from being captured to piloting the TARDIS, the side characters from the spin-off being introduced effectively in part 1 only to just wait on a soundstage until they get a call from the Doctor, Davros' weird "moral victory" over the Doctor, these are the bigger issues at play in the story and there's no easy way around a huge cast unless you've got a lot of time to uterlise them. Yes, as excited as I am, Power of the Doctor will probably have the same issue. Here's hoping 90 minutes is enough.
I am definitely being harsh on Journey's End. It had a lot to live up to, and in my opinion, it dropped the ball in a big way. My issues with Journey's End are basically universal, this is a Dalek-focused channel I didn't really mention many of the non-Dalek problems I have with this episode. Donna's departure is contrived and makes no sense. She had the Doctor's mind in her mind, meaning she was as smart as he was (if not smarter.) What gives him the right to rip that away? She was intelligent enough to make her own decision, and she chose to stay as she was. He ripped that away from her. Yeah, he did it to ultimately save her life, but that wasn't his decision to make. It feels wrong, it looks wrong, it is wrong. I wonder if part of the reason why Donna is returning in the 60th is so Russell can address this issue, because it is probably one of the most uncomfortable scenes in Doctor Who - she says no, but he doesn't take no for an answer. That's not good at all. Martha also gets shafted in this finale. You'd think that, after everything she went through in Series 3, she would have more to do in this story other than trying to blow up the Earth. You'd think that she'd at least have a scene with Rose, but no. I wrote the script of this video assuming that there's a scene with Martha, Rose and Donna together in one shot, that's why I wrote "Rose, Martha and Donna all meet". Then when I was editing the video, I realised that she doesn't even get any scenes with them. She's basically included in this episode because "well, she has to do something, I guess" and it's poor. Martha is my favourite RTD companion and I've always hated the fact that she gets the sticky end of the gunstick in this episode. And there's lots of other things too. I touched on it in the video, but how does Captain Jack have his defabricator back? Why does Davros' paper-thin assertion that the Doctor 'turns people into weapons' actually seem to work? Why does Donna get turned into yet another 'most important woman in the universe' plot device? I guess the main reason why I'm so harsh on Journey's End is that lots of fans look back on the RTD era as this impeccable golden age, to which neither the Moffat or Chibnall eras can compare. While I agree that the RTD era is great, and is often much better than the Moffat and Chibnall eras as a whole, Journey's End is basically an example of a bloated, overblown fanwank. Moffat's finales might have been overstuffed, but at least they were character-focused. Chibnall's episodes might be poorly-written, but at least he respects the Daleks. Journey's End is the culmination of the RTD era, that's for sure - it represents the pinnacle of its highs, and its lows. And while the good stuff is good, the bad stuff is some of the worst Doctor Who - and the Daleks - has ever seen.
I can see your point, but have to chuck in my two-pence worth... "Dalek Attack Formation 7: Maximum Extermination..." Though the deaths occur off screen, the Daleks annihilate an entire family, including the "juveniles". We knew they were monstrous, but this was the first time we ever saw Daleks kill children. As a child, watching a 'children's' show, this must have been horrifying (it was bad enough as an adult...)
I think they should have let Davros be the ruler of the Daley’s and he’s using the reality bomb to wipe the creation clean and then recreate it in his own image. Davros wants to be God
fun fact you most likely already know: terry molloy almost reprised davros for this story, but wasn't happy with the way the script treated davros and the daleks and turned it down
Yeah Terry Molloy's review of this story is pretty scathing, even more so than this review of mine, but I can't blame him. Davros basically is a pantomime villain in this episode, I really like Julian Bleach as Davros in Series 9 but the way he hams it up in this episode doesn't do it for me. Whenever Michael Wisher or Terry Molloy's Davros started ranting, they would take on a Dalek-like voice, almost as if a fragment of the Dalek personality is part of Davros himself. When Julian Bleach's Davros starts ranting, he just sounds like a generic crazy maniacal villain.
@@dalekbumps i actually adore bleach's two performances as davros, but he's carrying the character almost entirely on his own in journey's end. the script does nothing to back him up so it's a testament to his acting and the costuming that he remains even remotely compelling imo
@@superscrungus that's very true, all the best things about Davros in Series 4 are in the performance from Bleach and the costume design. The script doesn't do him any favours. Series 9's opening two-parter might be a mess but the Davros/Doctor scenes are golden, Julian Bleach really shines in that episode
So why did they need a big silly bomb? Davros should have saved himself the trouble of harvesting cells from his own body to make new Daleks and just focused on building the bomb
The reality bomb also doesn't make sense as it would leave the daleks scraping out a miserable existence in the last speck of reality in creation. In fact, I doubt the meagre resources they'd be left with would be enough to support their existence anywhere close to indefinitely.
I enjoyed it when it came out, although I didn't think about these things at the time and I do agree with these points, although I do still enjoy the episode. One thing about the Daleks that I hope will return is the Dalek emperor instead of using the red supreme Dalek again, although I wouldn't say that it has to be the same one as in parting of the ways, I just like the idea of a Dalek Emperors more than supreme, but that may be just because I like the big immobile Dalek Emperors look, both of them.
The ending is subtly brilliant for the Reality Bomb's control panel requiring a keyboard, which they can't use because of their plungers: _None of them ever stopped to consider or question this very basic fact, not even at the earliest blueprint level, because to question _*_anything at all_*_ will ultimately unravel the entire purpose of the Dalek race._
Yeah. The stolen earth was perfect, the score is just so perfect, the score is trimphant and ominous and the actors instantly set the idea of how dead they are, its a scene that always brings tears of joy... and then this episode comes up...
I think the reality bomb served a good foil and parallel to the timelord’s final plan to destroy the time vortex, the time war having twisted the both of them into equivalent mirrors of each other. Also because as a child the concepts of the reality bomb and death of the time vortex allowed me during a bout of pondering to essentially pipe conceptual void into my head and almost suffer from eldritch madness. This was a formative experience and set me on a path key to my current existence. And I’m not just waxing poetic here, the death of both time and space the timelords and daleks showed off here respectively unlocked such a sheer and absolute concept of astounding nothingness that just holding it in my head legitimately and physically caused my brain to hurt. It is impossible to mentally calculate the true vastness of reality, but to hold even a fragment of a dead omniverse is beyond impossible with your sanity intact. Fun in a way though.
lol the daleks did independence day, the show never references that notion like ever in either the spin offs and the main show The doctor doesn't even treat it as independence day, the humans kind of do but never compare it, it'd be like a movie becoming real like how 9/11 was like a movie to some people not immediately there Also its baffeling how earth society is back to normal after like a few hours maybe a day of being in another part of space and having independance day happen too, millions of people are DEAD! and infrastructure destroyed, daleks landed in JAPAN!!!!! I wander how the doctor who universe will smith and jeff goldblum reacted, oswald danes was the president lol must be a doppelganger of the film actor can of worms can of worms
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 was meaning prior to series 5/Moffat, the specials era , the world being completely normal after a world changing alien invasion is ridiculous, kids and parents at the park come on!
@@theentity5201 it's a classic case of a Doctor Who showrunner wanting their cake and eating it too. Russell seemed to really love the idea of Daleks invading Earth (to the extent that he used the same idea for 3 finales) but he didn't want to bother dealing with the fallout. As much as I find the 'cracks in time erased everything' excuse to be flimsy and stupid, I can't blame Moffat for at least trying to return to the status quo. If I were showrunner, I'd have the 'everyone keeps forgetting alien invasions' be incorporated into a storyline. Have it be that UNIT, or some other organisation, are deliberately altering people's memories. Maybe have an important character / companion be someone who lost a loved one during a Dalek invasion, and can't understand why so few people on Earth can't even remember them. Maybe have like a L.I.N.D.A. setup, where small groups of 'conspiracy theorists' meet to talk about how they all remember events that everyone else has forgotten. The choice that the Doctor has to make is - destroy the means by which UNIT (or whoever) is modifying people's memories, freeing the population but also causing chaos and existential dread, or leave things as they are with the knowledge that peace is being maintained by taking away people's agency. I reckon it would be an interesting story, and I'm surprised it hasn't been done already
@@dalekbumpsI’d have wider implications. UNIT mass-erasing minds has caused humanity’s development to significantly stagnate. By denying what’s happened, they are unable to move forward.
I know this is kind of necroposting but I do have stuff to say- The Reality Bomb is very... un-Dalek in concept. What's the point of erasing every other species when they seem to enjoy, or get as close to enjoy as they can in oppressing and subjugating other races? Why remove the thrill of the hunt, they're perfectly capable of conquering the universe barring external interference from the Doctor. They took on the Time Lords and won, it'd make more sense if it was some sort of temporal weapon that turned past defeats into victories, rewriting history. Show them as the new supreme temporal power after knocking the stagnant Gallifreyans off the top spot.
Journey‘s End definitely is the weakest of the RTD era‘s finales. Stolen Earth does a good job of setting things up and weave together the crossover elements, but a lot of that is sadly rendered mute in Journey’s End
How about the Daleks Master Plan which only has three episodes in the archives parts 2, 6 and 10 out of 12 parts. It may be one of the best missing episodes in the William Hartnell era excluding episode 7 “The feast of Steven”. I say The Time Destructor is more inventive than the reality Bomb but sadly due to routine junking footage of the time destructor doesn’t exist whereas fortunately the audio recordings do exist.
I'm cynical enough right now that I'm willing to believe that RTD knew the end of Journey's End would screw over later showrunners who inevitably wanted to have the Daleks appear.
I'm really of the opinion that the writers just don't know how to defeat the Daleks. Journey's End is a good example. They've been built up as a credible threat for so long. They've gathered the largest Dalek Army we've really ever seen. They've moved the earth...now how to stop them? In 60 odd minutes? Well people really seemed to like the ending where Rose went Bad Wolf...so we give Donna that chance? And why stop there, let the other companions get in on defeating the Daleks as well! Dalek target practice followed by Dalek bumper cars. But overall it seems to be a common theme of Doctor Who. At least the TV series anyways. The Daleks are all powerful...until they're push overs. You can tie a microwave to them, you can convince one to come down and poke it with a pen because it's just going to stand there and talk to you, you can avoid their weapons by just playing ring around the rosie, you can erase all of their memories of the Doctor, etc, etc, etc. There are very few Daleks I can think of who died without being practically a joke. Also I'm of the opinion that the Cybermen need to drop the Master, and the Daleks need to drop Davros. Why would they care about him? His plans really just seems to hold them back. It makes no sense for him to even be around other than a nostalgic kick.
I have to disagree with this opinion. I personally love both parts to this story and I have never understood the hate for journeys end. IMO (as a Dalek fan) this two parter is the best Dalek story in New who, it is also my favourite Doctor who story of all time. I shall admit Nostalgia had a tiny part to play in my love for this episode because, it was the first ever episode of Doctor who I saw at 4 years old. It utterly blew my mind and got me hooked on to the show forever. The story has many great qualities to it that people overlook. The Daleks are only treated as “goons” towards the closing act of the episode, so people are actually nitpicking when they say the Daleks are just treated as goons throughout the story because, they aren’t. Also it actually makes perfect sense that the Daleks would build a weapon capable of destroying everything in reality except the Daleks, as they have done so many times in expanded media. The Daleks destroy everything. They takeover entire planets 🪐 piece by piece, torturing and killing the innocent for sport and pleasure. The Daleks are truly evil incarnate. The only downside I have for this episode is the fact RTD falls into the typical un solving of the plot with a “magic button” but apart from that nothing else bothers me. The performances, story, characterisation etc is fantastic. This to me is The Infinity War/Endgame story of the Doctor who universe. This is my opinion, you may disagree and that is fine. To each their own xx
The worst part about this is that the Meta Crisis Doctor is then scoulded for destroying the daleks. Like, what were you going to do Doctor without a reality bomb the daleks successfully captured you how else would they be beaten!!
Sorry but the daleks didn't recover as a credible villain in the 13 doctors era. If anything they treat the daleks more like a joke than any other previous era did
Did you not see Resolution? Where a single Dalek is shown to be a threat again, the likes of which we hadn't seen since 'Dalek' in 2005? Or Revolution of the Daleks, where two factions of Daleks lay waste to Earth? Even Eve of the Daleks, a supposedly comedic story, presented the Daleks as more intimidating than they had been for the past 10 years
@@darlig.ulv.bakhjerne that dalek is resolution looked ridiculous and got defeated by a primitive human tribe in the beginning of the episode. The bad cgi didn't help its case either
@@Warriorx269 it wasn't defeated by a 'tribe', it was defeated by the combined forces of three of the most powerful armies on Earth at the time, and even then it slaughtered all but three of them, and was only defeated thanks to a trap Bearing in mind Classic Who had Daleks being defeated by Ancient Egyptians with rocks, and primitive Exxilons with sticks, it's not bad by any means All big-scale Dalek episodes have bad CGI, it's just par for the course at this point. it's like complaining about the TARDIS being blue, pointless and non-constructive It sounds like you're just biased against the episode, it's a fun and engaging Dalek romp that puts every Moffat-era Dalek story to shame
Dude there's no way you can say that when the Dalek in Resolution mauled two officers to death, than proceeded to blown up a army squad, than proceed to murder everyone in a communications center for craps and giggle... Crap before hand, it only managed to be defeated by the army because the survivors were able to firgure out a way to trap and destroy it's casing.
It's all very simple, Russell T Davies is a bad hack writer and always has been. He steels most of his ideas from other shows that have done it far better than him. Plagiarism is Russell's forte and due to this he could not write a decent script and he never has. He wouldn't know a good story if it bit him on the ass and Doctor who is obviously way out of his depth. This kind of none coherent storyline is the kind of trash you get when you employ a writer with the mind of a four year old.
sorry dalek bumps I have to disagree because although your points are valid they showed they were a threat by using the reality bomb and what it could do. did you forget about the reality bomb removing those people. they pretty much showed there are you gonna forget that scene. i presonally think we should acknowledge that scene. the reality bomb was turning them to literal dust dalek bumps?! so if you think that did the daleks dirt then i have to disagree also. how are the weapons used to blow up the daleks represent as the daleks being canon fodder. they are weapons thats what they do? also how is it supposed to move the story along what would happen if they didn't use them the characters would be useless and have no way to stop the daleks. no weapons= no story it would do the doctor and his companions dirty rather than the daleks if they did that making that point hard to agree. also if thats true, then you could say parting of the ways did the daleks dirty too because of rose.
The Reality Bomb turning people into dust doesn't make the Daleks seem intimidating, it makes them seem ineffectual. As I said in the review - the only reason why the Daleks would build a weapon like that would be because they realised they weren't capable of conquering the universe themselves. They essentially made themselves obsolete. The reality bomb takes agency away from the Daleks. If the Daleks had gathered a group of people into a room and gunned them down, that would be scary. But having Daleks defer to another weapon to do their job for them makes them seem weak and stunts their fear factor. I have the exact same issue with the Daleks using a giant ceiling cannon to destroy the TARDIS in Series 9, when a Dalek with a huge cannon is literally sat right there in the control room. The Doctor's companions do not need weapons in order to be effective. And the only reason why the anti-Dalek guns were needed so much in the story is because the writers wrote them in. It's just a lazy way to dispose of Daleks that makes the Daleks seem weak. The ironic thing is, Journey's End contains an example of how to write a companion being useful against the Daleks without using a huge gun. Captain Jack, Mickey, Jackie and Sarah Jane are able to wire up a device to sabotage the Crucible. It's one of my favourite parts of the episode because it's a clever idea that doesn't resort to 'I've got a big gun - Daleks go boom' And yeah the deus-ex-machina ending of The Parting of the Ways is really cheesy and definitely does the Daleks a disservice, but I'm more forgiving of that because a) Parting of the Ways depicted the Daleks as extremely powerful and effective (without needing a Reality Bomb or people with anti-Dalek guns) and b) It was the first time Russell had used a silly deus-ex-machina like that to defeat the Daleks. Using the same trick again in Doomsday was pushing it a bit, and using it for a third time in Journey's End is just cheap
@@dalekbumps although i do that yes the whole deus ex machina is a bit over used. i still disagree because if there was no reality bomb and its just the daleks destroying everything then the story would just be daleks invading earth with no plan. without the reality bomb there would be no plan and because of this the story would make no sense if there was no conflict the daleks are using. also you could also say that in steven moffats time of the doctor has a deus ex machina moment against the daleks. and also when the daleks were in time of the doctor. they didn't even use any super weapon they just attacked with no plan.
@@emperordalek102 with the Daleks, there doesn't really need to be a plan other than cause destruction and exterminate people, it's their primary function And yes the deus-ex-machina issue of Dalek stories is a result of the fact that they've become ridiculously overpowered in New Who That's why I'm quite fond of Chibnall's Dalek stories, he's made the Dalek defeats much more conventional (melting the Dalek with a microwave, blowing up a Dalek ship, destroying them with explosives etc) and that makes the stories feel more grounded
"Everyone and their mother now has an anti-Dalek blaster"
Quick shot of Jackie Tyler :) Nice
I can't really argue with points in this video, but as a kid I loved the concept of getting reality bomb. Davros being so insane, so infuriated that the Daleks keep failing, that he completely jumps the shark and decides to just destroy all of reality itself. If Davros can't have his perfect vision of a Dalek dominated universe, then he will destroy all universes, because anything else is disgusting to him.
Agreed. Journey's End was plagued by the Daleks not being a credible threat. Yeah, there were stories beforehand that made them look silly (looking at "The Chase") but when there's giant buildup over the course of 3 years showing how powerful a threat even one Dalek presents, having them get defeated by Donna pressing some buttons and having them spin around like Beyblades totally undermines them
Yes all the building to the threat of Dangerous Daleks Gone. Now they are Goofy metal boxes. Why didn't they bring other aliens for the part 2?. It would have developed the story more.
I feel like “The Time of the Doctor” did the Daleks well. They took out a faction of the Silence, a group that were hidden villains of series 5 and the main antagonists of series 6. They also essentially won only being defeated because the Doctor got another regeneration cycle.
I didn’t like how little screen time & focus they had, plus we didn’t see them kill anyone onscreen either
To me, the Reality Bomb was Davros' hypothetical virus the 4th Doctor talked to him about. In that, I don't mind the reality bomb. But I do find it odd that, if he created these particular Daleks from his own cells, why would they usurp him? I get that they may not have seen him as one of them, but the "Imperial Daleks" seemed fully capable of accepting Davros as their leader and master. So that kinda throws me.
I always imagined that the Dalek Supreme (and probably.a few others) is actually a Time War Dalek, also rescued by Caan, and he forced Davros to make more out of his own body. Hence, these Daleks are not loyal to him because the Supreme prevented him from doing that.
It depends how long this empire has been in the making. Seeing Tge Dalek Emperor had a functioning flagship, and took at least 200 years to make 500,000 Daleks, I presume Davros and the Crucible had been there at least a thousand to expand towhere they are in Journeys End, it's completely understandable, even with the same conditioning of tge the Imperial Daleks, for a Supreme to usurp the empire. The Imperial Daleks were a short lived Dalek faction (I'd expect less than 30 years in universe, as they were still in a civil war to conquer their homeworld during their destruction)
The Reality Bomb is Davros's insane idea. It also proves the Supreme Dalek was a fool, because he agreed to Davros's ideas and Dalek Caan's insane rabblings that are a Doctor Who version of the Oracle of Delphi, that is they have double meanings. Probably though the story could have benefited from being a three parter, because too much was crammed into the last part.
Scenes of the Daleks spinning around and being shoved about felt very much like a call-back to the Cushing films (Where one Dalek is defeated by having a tarp thrown over it).
But I'm pretty sure it wasn't an intentional call-back.
As for the Reality Bomb, it simply highlighted the ultimate problem with Dalek society; what would they do if they succeeded? What if they did exterminate all other lifeforms in the universe and became the single remaining life? What would they do? And if they annihilated all forms of matter so only the Crucible and two dozens planets were left in existence, the existential horror of their own existence only grows worse.
Especially for Davros. "Yay, I've won! Now I'm stuck on this space station for the rest of the time with a bunch of purposeless death-machines..."
And Davros is technically the only none Dalek alive.
@@OKTAPHMFAA The daleks would unalive Davros since he is not Dalek
I would certainly disagree about the reality bomb, if the Daleks won the time war they would probably just rewrite time, their hate has always been destroying everything, enabling them to take a quick method. they want to kill everything, conquest was just the easiest method they had.
The best part of jubilee is when the doctor points out that no matter what, a dalek victory will just leave the Daleks purposeless and they will turn on each other. Such a quick campaign, a simple bomb, hammers this in. They are so blinded by their hate that they fail to realize how quickly their purpose will vanish, they never even considered that possibility, the dalek in jubilee only thinks of it because the doctor points it out
Also, that lone dalek saucer surviving the destruction scenes listing to the right of the screen, it was intentional by RTD for that to happen
i would've preferred it if a few dalek saucers survived and posed more of a threat in victory of the daleks
maybe the red and gold supreme could've gotten a ride out of the crucible explosion and been the boss dalek in victory even arguing with the paradgim supreme
None of the ships are shown to escape, just move across the screen.
@@10thdoctor15 Given Russell's admission it will be a controversial plot hole for ever more
@@10thdoctor15no whilst the rest of the ships explode one literally flies nearly off screen.
@@OKTAPHMFAA Nearly off screen. Not all of the ships have exploded yet, so we assume they all do, even if they're moving a bit.
Part of what I really liked about the New Dalek Paradigm, is that it just allowed the Daleks to exist as a faction without contriving a reason for their return. Davis had a problem of making the threat far too big and then having to deus ex machina his way out of it. As a result, we see massive Dalek fleets destroyed on three seperate occasions during his run, each time supposedly destroying them once and for all.
I agree, I much prefer having the Daleks as an ever-present threat lurking out there in the universe, than have them be wiped out 'for good' in every series finale only to have us all pretending to act surprised when they inevitably show up again
Honestly, I wanted more Dalek Paradigm episodes. I really liked their desgin.
They needed too actually used the damn things...How the hell did the comics use them better than the Show?
they appears and then just sort of like never really came back lol
I agree for the most part. I don't agree with you on the reality bomb, but I DO kinda think it's overkill. It's just... where do you go from there? After the Daleks have threatened the whole of reality, how do you one-up that?
I don't mind seeing Daleks get destroyed by heavy weaponry. Arming soldiers or resistance with anti-tank weaponry or something makes sense against the Daleks. It's mainly that ending with the Doctor-Donna pushing the "instant win" button that irks me so much. It's like they wrote themselves into a corner and didn't know how to end resolve the conflict so they pulled a deus ex machina. It's a little ridiculous.
You know what, I TOTALLY agree. Despite Journey’s End being a top-tier episode, it does do the Daleks dirty. I think they should’ve kept Jack’s gun a one-off and made Pete’s World Guns need to recharge like the teleporters. All your points are dead on. Russell focused too much on the characters and overall impact/big picture and didn’t care about the smaller details because he got the emotional reaction. The episode holds up but it’s not one of his best. I still think he’s the best Dalek tv writer since Terry Nation and you’re right, I think he’ll take his experiences forward to improve his writing across the board from next year.
This episode should’ve ended with a defeat in victory and unleashed the Dalek Empire on the universe again. It would automatically explain so many world building failures in future episodes.
Actually that charge up would’ve made it alot better, especially because they could emphasize how much sheer power it takes just to kill one
Also the daleks could adapt to the weapons later so they become useless and the daleks are powerful again.
In defense of the Reality Bomb, this is the logical conclusion of Davros' virus scene. Davros *would* do this sort of thing simply to prove that it could be done. That's just who he is. And the Daleks have never particularly cared how they'd conquer the universe or what state it'd be in once they were done. And the whole thing takes place in the Medusa Cascade. A place out of sync with the multiverse. There is only *one* Medusa Cascade in all of creation. It's the exception to the rule. But this is just my humble opinion, at any rate.
Those are some really good points
@Dalek Bumps Thanks! To your point, I do have some issues with how Donna and the Metacrisis were handled. They seemed more like plot devices than actual characters. And the Metacrisis seemed to have just been a way to give a budget Doctor to Rose. Even Billie Piper wasn't happy with how it was handled. And they could've used some more build-up to not devalue Davros and the Daleks.
YEAH uhuh amen. Thank you for saying what we’re all thinking!!! Like don’t get me wrong, journey’s end is a fun episode if you’re looking at it as a fan of the doctor and you’re watching it for Caan, but other than that, it’s hard to watch. Even the Daleks who aren’t spinning explode remotely?? Why???? And I think this episode is why I have so much resent towards Davros. Because the reality bomb didn’t make any sense for the Daleks-it made sense for Davros, as a character who is just so maddened by life and existence that he wants to get rid of all of it for the sake of his own ego. Seeing this episode as I caught up on Doctor Who as a young teenager really created the idea I had that when Davros gets introduced, the Daleks become nothing but underlings for him in the writing; that writers tend to focus more on Davros when he’s present, a villain who’s easier to write maniacally and complexly instead of venturing out and trying to write the Daleks in that compelling villainous way. I really think this episode was the root of my anti-Davros sentiment, just because seemed to feel like Davros’s presence was the odd part out that caused the Daleks to feel so flat and less powerful in Journey’s End.
I like Journey's End as it was my first episode of Doctor Who. I always saw the Reality Bomb as being Davros' delusional mind at work rather than the Daleks' own plan.
If they made it as, the Doctor and his companions reverse the detonation of the Reality Bomb onto the Crucible and the Dalek Supreme simply orders the Dalek fleet to spread out through time and space to escape their destruction, that might have worked out better
A Davros episode where the Daleks themselves are done dirty and look like fools? Where have I heard this before?
I can see where your coming from and the points make sense, however I think that the methodology and the ending were just basically bring them up so far for them to fall. Plus I think Russell was trying up series 1 and 2 in regards to how deadly the daleks were as we’ve already seen them just decimate everything and then showing through just 4 daleks how they can still do way more damage. Series 3 focused more on the survival aspect so the deadly part wasn’t focused on as much and didn’t need to be cause well we had series 1 and 2 as the base. Still an enjoyable episode and ending to a series I think
I have never accepted the 'it takes six people to pilot a TARDIS' idea. I think the design was to enable ONE person to be able to effectively reach the necessary controls. After all the Master has never had 5 other people to comfortably get where he wants to go, the Rani similarly travelled to Miasimia Goria - then to Earth to steal chemicals from Industrial Age workers. She didn't need the Master's help to fly her own (sabotaged by the Doctor) TARDIS, and she seemed pretty in control when she was cooking up the big brain plot. And when has the Doctor since the reboot needed companions to help him fly his own TARDIS? Even his first incarnation commented that Capaldi's Doctor seemed better able to steer the Ship.
I do feel the Daleks we're sidelined in Journey's End.
I had the davros and the supreme dalek figures and it had a crossover between doctor who torchwood and the Sarah Jane adventures.
3:17 The reality bomb was not "doomed to fail"- it actually SUCCEEDED, as prior the Doctor getting involved everyone was noticing that the stars were disappearing, and Rose and co even noticed this from a parallel universe. The failing of the reality bomb from the perspective of the Daleks is that their arch-enemy is a time-traveller and can- and does- go back to before it works and undoes it.
Nope. Caan literally admits the reality bomb failing would always have happened.
He confesses to only helping the doctor. He only sped things up.
@@OKTAPHMFAA The reality bomb had a successful test firing on the human subjects.
What about if they stop making Unit useless and let them go "Oh Daleks, yeah we had years to level up" as it was suggested in battlefield and have them able to not defeat them but be a headache for the Daleks, that would eventually be overrun as humanity at this point cannot fight a war against the Daleks that way the Daleks can still be a threat and you don't need to use the spinning dalek plot point as a way to end the story.
Caan could’ve convinced the supreme that the Dalek’s only chance for victory was the reality bomb.
Needing each control panel of the TARDIS to be manned to have the TARDIS work as intended is the dumbest shit RTD has ever done (well till he came back, and I never thought he was a good show runner to begin with)
The different panels on the TARDIS all do something different, only 1 is flight control/navigation and most of that was done by computer.
Some of the others are: one is external information (planet and atmospheric readings), another gives info about whats happening inside the TARDIS (environmental/engine status/lay out), one is for communications, one for scanner control, controls for external appearance.
Doing it like how it is shown would be like needing all 5 people in a car to man different aspects to drive it properly; one person on gas, one person on breaks, one for the stealing wheel, one person to do signals.
If needing multiple people to pilot the TARDIS was necessary we would have seen Romana doing more when she and the Doctor were traveling. In The Pirate Planet we see Romana reading the user manual of the TARDIS. If the manual said you need more then just one person, she would have told the Doctor to man some of the other controls as to make a smooth materialization.
Jack: "You got lucky, that was just a one shot wonder, its just junk now"
---- Journeys End ----
Jack: Kills daleks with "one shot wonder defabricator".
Rose: Bro, you could have done that on satellite 5 :("
XD
Definetly an episode that got worse the more I thought about it, but I enjoyed it when it aired.
Like you said, they very much cheapen the daleks and their ultimate defeat plays into the classic formula of 'villian reveals plan, doctor uses mcguffin to blow them to smithereens' only the mcguffin felt so weird like why would the daleks have a control panel that could just blow up their entire species with a few twists of a dial and the pull of a lever?
As for the reality bomb, its a cool concept, but runs into that major plothole you mentioned. I really do like the buildup of the planets going missing etc and the prelude to the daleks plan, so I would keep it in personally, but maybe scale it back to be something more interesting and fitting for the daleks. Perhaps they intend to wipe the doctor out from all of space-time or across all realites? Runs into the same issues but I think scaling it back to the doctor makes it more interesting to develop the 'personality' of the daleks and also is more explainable with 'le timey wimey stuff' schtick they pull whenver the plot doesn't make sense.
Although I do remember this episode fondly, the part where the daleks spin around and can be pushed about always annoyed me. I mean a human trying to move an out of control dalek should be as dangerous at trying to body slam an out of control car given how fast they can fly about. A reality bomb always seems like a weird thing Davros would make, like the daleks still want a universe to inhabit right? Would it just be a bunch of daleks floating about in the void?
Mass destruction/elimination of the Daleks has been a theme throughout the various Doctors. The first visit to Skaro saw the supposed end, as also did Resurrection and Remembrance-with scenes of mass destruction of daleks.I agree that these latter visions of mass destruction are weak plot and only serve to keep kiddies happy!The writers could do a lot better.
We need a real time war veteran Dalek, one who has been around since the beginning, survived every iteration. Pure, full of hate, and cunning enough to be a scalpel.
Picturing a slightly modified bronze Dalek case with some paradigm updates like the eyestalk and slats for alternate arms and weapons, coloured in the classic silver and blue bumps like an inverted version of the doctors colours
Have them take on the lesson of Sec that the Dalek must adapt but without loosing his intrinsic drive to dominate all life. Deride the Davros’s Dalek, the emperors zealots, and the new paradigm as the lost and the lunatic, and maybe use remnants of them to build the new deadly Dalek we see in the new era.
Basically, the 7th Doctor in a Dalek casing and utterly evil
It's a shame I must agree
Mr Tardis: If you say Asylum of the Daleks is good I will declare you as an enemy
I understand your points, but I have to disagree.
It was Davros that came up with the reality bomb (his goal was always to eliminate all other life to enable peace), and after he rebuilt the Dalek empire, the Daleks are unlikely to turn down the opportunity to use the reality bomb.
As a massive Dalek fan, I never felt the Daleks were made to look weaker in the second part. They're not as efficient and ruthless as in series 1, and hardly being seen to kill anyone because they were going to die by the reality bomb anyway meant there were no scenes like when they killed everyone on floor 0 on Satellite 5.
That said, I thought it was the best possible end to the Daleks (and the show itself, if there was to be an end). Donna pressing some buttons and making them spin around doesn't spoil them for me - some people question why the Daleks would have controls that would allow that in the first place, but the controls are actually to enable the Daleks to operate their casings, Donna just turns that ability off.
There are parallels between JE and Evil of the Daleks, both showed the Daleks to be completely wiped out. The mistake was Moffat brought them back too soon (and cheaply - "One ship survived") because he reckons "they're not the Doctor until they've faced the Daleks".
When the Daleks transport the Doctor's companions to the vault and starts counting down the reality bomb, I find myself rooting for the Daleks to finally beat the Doctor.
Also, Rose destroying a Dalek to save Wilf and Sylvia was in TSE, not JE.
If it was Davros who was responsible for the Reality Bomb, Russell should have had him controlling the Daleks. There is precedent for that (Remembrance) and it's never really explained how Davros went from creating a new race of Daleks from his own cells to becoming their 'pet' locked away in the dungeon.
The Daleks do very little in Journey's End, and the few things they do get to do are underwhelming, especially compared to the action-packed Stolen Earth
It still doesn't make sense why there would be controls in the literal prison floor of the Dalek mothership that could in any way influence individual Dalek casings. Again, it would have made sense if it was Davros' control room, and he was in charge of the Daleks and installed those controls as a potential failsafe in case they betrayed him, but again, the lack of proper explanation debases this idea
You can't blame Moffat for bringing the Daleks back. He had just become showrunner of Doctor Who, he quite rightly refused to allow his creativity to be bound by his predecessor. It's entirely Russell's fault for blowing his load and refusing to clean up the mess
And yes, I know that Rose destroying the Dalek was in Stolen Earth, it's the worst scene of the episode
@@dalekbumps The Daleks are happy for Davros to have created them, but with not let him rule them as he is not a Dalek. When the reality bomb fails, the Supreme assumes Davros has betrayed them.
The issue with having Davros in any story, is that it automatically takes the Daleks from centre stage.
@@dalekbumps I just assumed that the Supreme was a legitimate Time War Dalek that was rescued by Caan along with Davros- that would explain why the other Daleks were not loyal to Davros (the Supreme forced him to create them and forbade him making them loyal to him).
The dalek’s dome lights match your voiceover at the start of the video pretty well
the reality bomb was more davros. and i think it could have been a better way for how to defeat the daleks. maybe have it play out that the daleks intended for Davros to also be a victim of the reality bomb. after everything he did for them,. literally growing them from his own body. they still see him as another inferior being. no matter what he does. so in the end he finally sees the light and betrays them.
that way. you can now seperate davros and the daleks. he can still be a villian. but becomes a seperate threat from the daleks.
they can still interact time from time but as angonists with eachother.
have say the master and davros work together one time and create some whacky time lord mutant creature.
When i first started this video i thought you were gonna shit on one of my favourite episodes of doctor who but in fact you improved upon it and even shown flaws within the episode very clearly a true dalek fan indeed 😁
The reality bomb doesn't work as a plot device because if it destroys every universe in the multiverse, multiverse theory states that there has to be an infinite number of universes in which the reality bomb is activated. Which would... Delete all other realities. Including this one.
I just did not think the Reality Bomb made any sense for the Daleks but it is supposed to make sense for Davros as it recalls the holding a vial of deadly virus dialogue with the Fourth Doctor in Genesis. Unfortunately that does not work either as the conclusion of the rant in Genesis is Davros' affirmation that with the Daleks he will have that same power of life and death. Maybe RTD felt Davros had reached the conclusion that the Daleks were ,after all, not very good at universal domination.
daleks are totally helpless without there laser guns.
Usually that isn't the case, but this episode certainly seems to imply otherwise
Nah, they still have the manipulator arm.
Damn, I love both two episodes. But I must admit, my boys the daleks were done dirty there. I'd love to see a rewrite of Journey's end, even though it is pretty solid in my honest opinion.
I agree but then quite a few stories had big build ups then 'easy wins' ...sometimes putting so many ingredients into the pot spoils the meal
I agree that before Resolution their last really great episode was The Stolen Earth, however I think you are being a bit harsh on Journey's End. People having anti-dalek weaponry isn't new and it's also a thing in The Stolen Earth. It makes sense that some of the companions would be able to arm themselves and kill a couple of Daleks, if they went on a rampage then I'd get it, but as it stands they were only used 5 times, once to save Donna's parents, once to stop the Dalek that shot the Doctor, twice to save Sarah and once against the Dalek Supreme.
The reality bomb, it isn't ideal but it's all about escalation for Russell's finales and destroying literally everything is as big as you could go. It at least makes sense for the Daleks to go along with this idea since their purpose is to destroy all life.
There aren't many way in which you could logically end this story that aren't a total cop out, yes the Daleks end with a spinning rave party but there is at least a consequence, Donna's memory loss and since that is such a heartbreaking departure spurred on by the Daleks then I'll let it slide. And there's something poetic about the monsters the Doctor struggle to defeat in series 1 being simple now that he has his family to help him. If they did what you suggested, maybe it would've been effective but to me it would just feel like a rehash of series 1, the Doctor reaching the same conclusion as 9 would feel strange honestly and it would take that character arch away from him.
No Journeys End's biggest problems lie with the huge cast, so many companions who do nothing from being captured to piloting the TARDIS, the side characters from the spin-off being introduced effectively in part 1 only to just wait on a soundstage until they get a call from the Doctor, Davros' weird "moral victory" over the Doctor, these are the bigger issues at play in the story and there's no easy way around a huge cast unless you've got a lot of time to uterlise them. Yes, as excited as I am, Power of the Doctor will probably have the same issue. Here's hoping 90 minutes is enough.
I am definitely being harsh on Journey's End. It had a lot to live up to, and in my opinion, it dropped the ball in a big way.
My issues with Journey's End are basically universal, this is a Dalek-focused channel I didn't really mention many of the non-Dalek problems I have with this episode.
Donna's departure is contrived and makes no sense. She had the Doctor's mind in her mind, meaning she was as smart as he was (if not smarter.) What gives him the right to rip that away? She was intelligent enough to make her own decision, and she chose to stay as she was. He ripped that away from her. Yeah, he did it to ultimately save her life, but that wasn't his decision to make. It feels wrong, it looks wrong, it is wrong. I wonder if part of the reason why Donna is returning in the 60th is so Russell can address this issue, because it is probably one of the most uncomfortable scenes in Doctor Who - she says no, but he doesn't take no for an answer. That's not good at all.
Martha also gets shafted in this finale. You'd think that, after everything she went through in Series 3, she would have more to do in this story other than trying to blow up the Earth. You'd think that she'd at least have a scene with Rose, but no. I wrote the script of this video assuming that there's a scene with Martha, Rose and Donna together in one shot, that's why I wrote "Rose, Martha and Donna all meet". Then when I was editing the video, I realised that she doesn't even get any scenes with them. She's basically included in this episode because "well, she has to do something, I guess" and it's poor. Martha is my favourite RTD companion and I've always hated the fact that she gets the sticky end of the gunstick in this episode.
And there's lots of other things too. I touched on it in the video, but how does Captain Jack have his defabricator back? Why does Davros' paper-thin assertion that the Doctor 'turns people into weapons' actually seem to work? Why does Donna get turned into yet another 'most important woman in the universe' plot device?
I guess the main reason why I'm so harsh on Journey's End is that lots of fans look back on the RTD era as this impeccable golden age, to which neither the Moffat or Chibnall eras can compare. While I agree that the RTD era is great, and is often much better than the Moffat and Chibnall eras as a whole, Journey's End is basically an example of a bloated, overblown fanwank. Moffat's finales might have been overstuffed, but at least they were character-focused. Chibnall's episodes might be poorly-written, but at least he respects the Daleks. Journey's End is the culmination of the RTD era, that's for sure - it represents the pinnacle of its highs, and its lows. And while the good stuff is good, the bad stuff is some of the worst Doctor Who - and the Daleks - has ever seen.
Honestly though if the reality bomb worked could reality be maintained with only the little part of the universe with the daleks in it?
I would agree the daleks were so under-utilised in this story
I can see your point, but have to chuck in my two-pence worth...
"Dalek Attack Formation 7: Maximum Extermination..."
Though the deaths occur off screen, the Daleks annihilate an entire family, including the "juveniles". We knew they were monstrous, but this was the first time we ever saw Daleks kill children. As a child, watching a 'children's' show, this must have been horrifying (it was bad enough as an adult...)
I think those controls were created by Davros himself so he could wipe out the Daleks himself if they ever turned on him.
Thought that was Owenlikescomics then 😂
I think they should have let Davros be the ruler of the Daley’s and he’s using the reality bomb to wipe the creation clean and then recreate it in his own image. Davros wants to be God
The Daleks were still a massive threat!
Why dont the daleks have the heat shields in this story
fun fact you most likely already know: terry molloy almost reprised davros for this story, but wasn't happy with the way the script treated davros and the daleks and turned it down
Yeah Terry Molloy's review of this story is pretty scathing, even more so than this review of mine, but I can't blame him. Davros basically is a pantomime villain in this episode, I really like Julian Bleach as Davros in Series 9 but the way he hams it up in this episode doesn't do it for me. Whenever Michael Wisher or Terry Molloy's Davros started ranting, they would take on a Dalek-like voice, almost as if a fragment of the Dalek personality is part of Davros himself. When Julian Bleach's Davros starts ranting, he just sounds like a generic crazy maniacal villain.
@@dalekbumps i actually adore bleach's two performances as davros, but he's carrying the character almost entirely on his own in journey's end. the script does nothing to back him up so it's a testament to his acting and the costuming that he remains even remotely compelling imo
@@superscrungus that's very true, all the best things about Davros in Series 4 are in the performance from Bleach and the costume design. The script doesn't do him any favours. Series 9's opening two-parter might be a mess but the Davros/Doctor scenes are golden, Julian Bleach really shines in that episode
3:30 The 10th Doctor clone did point out that The empire is still big enough the slaughter the Multiverse with Or without the Reality bomb so yeah
So why did they need a big silly bomb? Davros should have saved himself the trouble of harvesting cells from his own body to make new Daleks and just focused on building the bomb
The sooner the 2005 daleks return the sooner Doctor Who will be restored!
The reality bomb also doesn't make sense as it would leave the daleks scraping out a miserable existence in the last speck of reality in creation. In fact, I doubt the meagre resources they'd be left with would be enough to support their existence anywhere close to indefinitely.
Finally someone else who agrees with me! Journeys end just robbed the daleks of any credibility!
I enjoyed it when it came out, although I didn't think about these things at the time and I do agree with these points, although I do still enjoy the episode.
One thing about the Daleks that I hope will return is the Dalek emperor instead of using the red supreme Dalek again, although I wouldn't say that it has to be the same one as in parting of the ways, I just like the idea of a Dalek Emperors more than supreme, but that may be just because I like the big immobile Dalek Emperors look, both of them.
I would like if the emperor and supreme were in an episode together. After all they are both part of the dalek hierarchy
I agree with everything except the Reality Bomb. The Daleks have been using devices like that since the first Doctor era, see the Time Destructor.
Journey's End, for me, is without doubt, one of the worst Doctor Who episodes ever made. Completely ruins the fantastic build up in Stolen Earth
Stolen Earth-Journeys End should have been a four parter with the first two eps not including the Doctor
I blame the Doctor. ERADICATE!!! 🐙
I like Journey's End
The ending is subtly brilliant for the Reality Bomb's control panel requiring a keyboard, which they can't use because of their plungers: _None of them ever stopped to consider or question this very basic fact, not even at the earliest blueprint level, because to question _*_anything at all_*_ will ultimately unravel the entire purpose of the Dalek race._
Yeah. The stolen earth was perfect, the score is just so perfect, the score is trimphant and ominous and the actors instantly set the idea of how dead they are, its a scene that always brings tears of joy... and then this episode comes up...
I think the reality bomb served a good foil and parallel to the timelord’s final plan to destroy the time vortex, the time war having twisted the both of them into equivalent mirrors of each other. Also because as a child the concepts of the reality bomb and death of the time vortex allowed me during a bout of pondering to essentially pipe conceptual void into my head and almost suffer from eldritch madness. This was a formative experience and set me on a path key to my current existence. And I’m not just waxing poetic here, the death of both time and space the timelords and daleks showed off here respectively unlocked such a sheer and absolute concept of astounding nothingness that just holding it in my head legitimately and physically caused my brain to hurt. It is impossible to mentally calculate the true vastness of reality, but to hold even a fragment of a dead omniverse is beyond impossible with your sanity intact. Fun in a way though.
lol the daleks did independence day, the show never references that notion like ever in either the spin offs and the main show
The doctor doesn't even treat it as independence day, the humans kind of do but never compare it, it'd be like a movie becoming real
like how 9/11 was like a movie to some people not immediately there
Also its baffeling how earth society is back to normal after like a few hours maybe a day of being in another part of space and having independance day happen too, millions of people are DEAD! and infrastructure destroyed, daleks landed in JAPAN!!!!!
I wander how the doctor who universe will smith and jeff goldblum reacted, oswald danes was the president lol must be a doppelganger of the film actor
can of worms can of worms
Oh but you see, TiEm CraCk aNNd UNit EErazEd EVerY1’s *memories.* so it makes sense now
@@GreaterGrievobeast55 was meaning prior to series 5/Moffat, the specials era , the world being completely normal after a world changing alien invasion is ridiculous, kids and parents at the park come on!
@@theentity5201 it's a classic case of a Doctor Who showrunner wanting their cake and eating it too. Russell seemed to really love the idea of Daleks invading Earth (to the extent that he used the same idea for 3 finales) but he didn't want to bother dealing with the fallout. As much as I find the 'cracks in time erased everything' excuse to be flimsy and stupid, I can't blame Moffat for at least trying to return to the status quo. If I were showrunner, I'd have the 'everyone keeps forgetting alien invasions' be incorporated into a storyline. Have it be that UNIT, or some other organisation, are deliberately altering people's memories. Maybe have an important character / companion be someone who lost a loved one during a Dalek invasion, and can't understand why so few people on Earth can't even remember them. Maybe have like a L.I.N.D.A. setup, where small groups of 'conspiracy theorists' meet to talk about how they all remember events that everyone else has forgotten. The choice that the Doctor has to make is - destroy the means by which UNIT (or whoever) is modifying people's memories, freeing the population but also causing chaos and existential dread, or leave things as they are with the knowledge that peace is being maintained by taking away people's agency. I reckon it would be an interesting story, and I'm surprised it hasn't been done already
@@dalekbumpsI’d have wider implications. UNIT mass-erasing minds has caused humanity’s development to significantly stagnate. By denying what’s happened, they are unable to move forward.
The metacrisis doctor should’ve killed just Davros.
I know this is kind of necroposting but I do have stuff to say-
The Reality Bomb is very... un-Dalek in concept. What's the point of erasing every other species when they seem to enjoy, or get as close to enjoy as they can in oppressing and subjugating other races? Why remove the thrill of the hunt, they're perfectly capable of conquering the universe barring external interference from the Doctor. They took on the Time Lords and won, it'd make more sense if it was some sort of temporal weapon that turned past defeats into victories, rewriting history. Show them as the new supreme temporal power after knocking the stagnant Gallifreyans off the top spot.
I really hated the _Donna Ex Machina,_ to be honest.
Journey‘s End definitely is the weakest of the RTD era‘s finales. Stolen Earth does a good job of setting things up and weave together the crossover elements, but a lot of that is sadly rendered mute in Journey’s End
How about the Daleks Master Plan which only has three episodes in the archives parts 2, 6 and 10 out of 12 parts. It may be one of the best missing episodes in the William Hartnell era excluding episode 7 “The feast of Steven”. I say The Time Destructor is more inventive than the reality Bomb but sadly due to routine junking footage of the time destructor doesn’t exist whereas fortunately the audio recordings do exist.
I'm cynical enough right now that I'm willing to believe that RTD knew the end of Journey's End would screw over later showrunners who inevitably wanted to have the Daleks appear.
I'm really of the opinion that the writers just don't know how to defeat the Daleks.
Journey's End is a good example. They've been built up as a credible threat for so long. They've gathered the largest Dalek Army we've really ever seen. They've moved the earth...now how to stop them? In 60 odd minutes?
Well people really seemed to like the ending where Rose went Bad Wolf...so we give Donna that chance? And why stop there, let the other companions get in on defeating the Daleks as well! Dalek target practice followed by Dalek bumper cars.
But overall it seems to be a common theme of Doctor Who. At least the TV series anyways.
The Daleks are all powerful...until they're push overs. You can tie a microwave to them, you can convince one to come down and poke it with a pen because it's just going to stand there and talk to you, you can avoid their weapons by just playing ring around the rosie, you can erase all of their memories of the Doctor, etc, etc, etc.
There are very few Daleks I can think of who died without being practically a joke.
Also I'm of the opinion that the Cybermen need to drop the Master, and the Daleks need to drop Davros.
Why would they care about him? His plans really just seems to hold them back. It makes no sense for him to even be around other than a nostalgic kick.
I have to disagree with this opinion. I personally love both parts to this story and I have never understood the hate for journeys end. IMO (as a Dalek fan) this two parter is the best Dalek story in New who, it is also my favourite Doctor who story of all time. I shall admit Nostalgia had a tiny part to play in my love for this episode because, it was the first ever episode of Doctor who I saw at 4 years old. It utterly blew my mind and got me hooked on to the show forever. The story has many great qualities to it that people overlook. The Daleks are only treated as “goons” towards the closing act of the episode, so people are actually nitpicking when they say the Daleks are just treated as goons throughout the story because, they aren’t. Also it actually makes perfect sense that the Daleks would build a weapon capable of destroying everything in reality except the Daleks, as they have done so many times in expanded media. The Daleks destroy everything. They takeover entire planets 🪐 piece by piece, torturing and killing the innocent for sport and pleasure. The Daleks are truly evil incarnate. The only downside I have for this episode is the fact RTD falls into the typical un solving of the plot with a “magic button” but apart from that nothing else bothers me. The performances, story, characterisation etc is fantastic. This to me is The Infinity War/Endgame story of the Doctor who universe. This is my opinion, you may disagree and that is fine. To each their own xx
The worst part about this is that the Meta Crisis Doctor is then scoulded for destroying the daleks. Like, what were you going to do Doctor without a reality bomb the daleks successfully captured you how else would they be beaten!!
Sorry but the daleks didn't recover as a credible villain in the 13 doctors era. If anything they treat the daleks more like a joke than any other previous era did
Did you not see Resolution? Where a single Dalek is shown to be a threat again, the likes of which we hadn't seen since 'Dalek' in 2005? Or Revolution of the Daleks, where two factions of Daleks lay waste to Earth? Even Eve of the Daleks, a supposedly comedic story, presented the Daleks as more intimidating than they had been for the past 10 years
@@darlig.ulv.bakhjerne that dalek is resolution looked ridiculous and got defeated by a primitive human tribe in the beginning of the episode. The bad cgi didn't help its case either
@@Warriorx269 it wasn't defeated by a 'tribe', it was defeated by the combined forces of three of the most powerful armies on Earth at the time, and even then it slaughtered all but three of them, and was only defeated thanks to a trap
Bearing in mind Classic Who had Daleks being defeated by Ancient Egyptians with rocks, and primitive Exxilons with sticks, it's not bad by any means
All big-scale Dalek episodes have bad CGI, it's just par for the course at this point. it's like complaining about the TARDIS being blue, pointless and non-constructive
It sounds like you're just biased against the episode, it's a fun and engaging Dalek romp that puts every Moffat-era Dalek story to shame
Dude there's no way you can say that when the Dalek in Resolution mauled two officers to death, than proceeded to blown up a army squad, than proceed to murder everyone in a communications center for craps and giggle...
Crap before hand, it only managed to be defeated by the army because the survivors were able to firgure out a way to trap and destroy it's casing.
It's all very simple, Russell T Davies is a bad hack writer and always has been. He steels most of his ideas from other shows that have done it far better than him. Plagiarism is Russell's forte and due to this he could not write a decent script and he never has. He wouldn't know a good story if it bit him on the ass and Doctor who is obviously way out of his depth. This kind of none coherent storyline is the kind of trash you get when you employ a writer with the mind of a four year old.
sorry dalek bumps I have to disagree because although your points are valid they showed they were a threat by using the reality bomb and what it could do. did you forget about the reality bomb removing those people. they pretty much showed there are you gonna forget that scene. i presonally think we should acknowledge that scene. the reality bomb was turning them to literal dust dalek bumps?! so if you think that did the daleks dirt then i have to disagree also. how are the weapons used to blow up the daleks represent as the daleks being canon fodder. they are weapons thats what they do? also how is it supposed to move the story along what would happen if they didn't use them the characters would be useless and have no way to stop the daleks. no weapons= no story it would do the doctor and his companions dirty rather than the daleks if they did that making that point hard to agree. also if thats true, then you could say parting of the ways did the daleks dirty too because of rose.
The Reality Bomb turning people into dust doesn't make the Daleks seem intimidating, it makes them seem ineffectual. As I said in the review - the only reason why the Daleks would build a weapon like that would be because they realised they weren't capable of conquering the universe themselves. They essentially made themselves obsolete. The reality bomb takes agency away from the Daleks. If the Daleks had gathered a group of people into a room and gunned them down, that would be scary. But having Daleks defer to another weapon to do their job for them makes them seem weak and stunts their fear factor. I have the exact same issue with the Daleks using a giant ceiling cannon to destroy the TARDIS in Series 9, when a Dalek with a huge cannon is literally sat right there in the control room.
The Doctor's companions do not need weapons in order to be effective. And the only reason why the anti-Dalek guns were needed so much in the story is because the writers wrote them in. It's just a lazy way to dispose of Daleks that makes the Daleks seem weak. The ironic thing is, Journey's End contains an example of how to write a companion being useful against the Daleks without using a huge gun. Captain Jack, Mickey, Jackie and Sarah Jane are able to wire up a device to sabotage the Crucible. It's one of my favourite parts of the episode because it's a clever idea that doesn't resort to 'I've got a big gun - Daleks go boom'
And yeah the deus-ex-machina ending of The Parting of the Ways is really cheesy and definitely does the Daleks a disservice, but I'm more forgiving of that because a) Parting of the Ways depicted the Daleks as extremely powerful and effective (without needing a Reality Bomb or people with anti-Dalek guns) and b) It was the first time Russell had used a silly deus-ex-machina like that to defeat the Daleks. Using the same trick again in Doomsday was pushing it a bit, and using it for a third time in Journey's End is just cheap
@@dalekbumps although i do that yes the whole deus ex machina is a bit over used. i still disagree because if there was no reality bomb and its just the daleks destroying everything then the story would just be daleks invading earth with no plan.
without the reality bomb there would be no plan and because of this the story would make no sense if there was no conflict the daleks are using.
also you could also say that in steven moffats time of the doctor has a deus ex machina moment against the daleks. and also when the daleks were in time of the doctor. they didn't even use any super weapon they just attacked with no plan.
@@emperordalek102 with the Daleks, there doesn't really need to be a plan other than cause destruction and exterminate people, it's their primary function
And yes the deus-ex-machina issue of Dalek stories is a result of the fact that they've become ridiculously overpowered in New Who
That's why I'm quite fond of Chibnall's Dalek stories, he's made the Dalek defeats much more conventional (melting the Dalek with a microwave, blowing up a Dalek ship, destroying them with explosives etc) and that makes the stories feel more grounded