Controversial Plumbing Innovations 2024 With Mechanical Hub
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2024
- Matt and Eric look at three innovations from the plumbing world, some that not everyone agrees with. These innovations include an alternate to the copper stub out, a new PEX manifold, and a new product from Shark Bite that is easier to use with much better specs. Comment below which innovation you like or dislike the most!
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I'm in the process of doing the plumbing in my backyard office now and I'm using bends and manifolds to minimize fittings. It's definitely the way to go.
Eric may be a Master Plumber but he is also a Master presenter with a great onscreen presence and a ton of useful information for the new DIYers to plumbing. Please keep coming back. You two work so well together. Thank you. I may never actually do the work myself, but I will be an informed purchaser!🤩
I've been using PEX bend supports to eliminate extra fittings and joints since 2009. I also have used them to make stub-outs.
I use cable ties to secure the PEX into the bend supports so that it won't come out once it has been covered.
NOTE: Be sure to cover any exposed PEX to keep it out of direct sunlight.
@LRaines You can't use PEX stubouts for those applications. I use drop ear elblows for such things. You screw pipe nipples/shower head arms into the drop ear elbows to make the solid connections. The drop ear eblows are screwed to support plates (wood/metal). I mainly use PEX stubouts for faucets/toilet connections.
My house that I built in 2019 uses uponor or PEX A and then it goes to a copper stub out so you can put a normal compression valve on it. I like the copper stuff out much better because when I see homes with a plastic PEX pipe popping out that's blue or red or even just white it's just flimsy and cheap looking. And whenever I have to work on something like that it's just flimsy and not solid. Where are the copper stub out as long as it was installed right is nice and solid and I can get my hands on it and clamp it down tightly with channel locks or compression fittings
I did my house with dog ear fittings and used chrome threaded stub outs. Replaced multiple times now because the 1/4 valves only have about a 10 year life. Never have to touch the plumbing, looks great, and is far stronger.
Thanks for keeping consistently high production value on the build show. Its always a disappointment to see a discussion between two greenscreened webcams on other channels.
Appreciate that
Nice video. PEX is handy, and PEX is durable, but my question is: With all the recent concerns about plastics being discovered at disturbing levels in our bodies, isn't copper a safer option in terms of our health ? Have any studies been conducted over the long term use of PEX piping to deliver drinking water in our homes, and whether there is any leaching of the chemicals PEX is composed of into our water ?
So, copper, which is known to be a solvent in water over time, and causes health issues when encountered in the human body, is safer? I mean, I understand worrying. But…..if you live in a development built in the last 30 years, your water mains are likely plastic also…
There have been and are currently a bunch of studies going on with that very subject. The general consensus, even in the super green building community is that PEX is pretty harmless if you buy it from a reputable supplier. There may be some leaching at the start but flushing the water repeatedly over several days seems to largely eliminate it. Copper also leaches Cu ions into the water as well as whatever metals are in the solder joints. Unless you go with heat fused high purity polypropylene or teflon piping or other specialty (and crazy expensive) piping that you see in semiconductor and science lab builds, you're going to get stuff leaching into your water.
Yes, PEX is toxic and leeches hormone-altering chemicals for decades. It’s not safe and if we had a functional government it would have been banned long ago.
Just think about how “obvious” it will be in 2030/2040 that plastic hot water lines was a dumb fuck idea. We’ll be the “old idiots” :)
Copper is anti microbial by nature too! It’s probably the best, but has gotten expensive and slower to install.
Copper used acidic flux and uses a solder to join the pipe. Pex is legend hyper pure. Is a pure virgin material of the highest qualities
The problem is that Pex looks ghetto as hell coming out of the wall whether for a toilet pedestal sink or other.
A metal sleeve over it can make it look better. I see items called a "Finishing Sleeve" on Supply House for this purpose. Note that it may not fit over the expansion ring, so while that's not a perfectly clean look, I imagine that any non-pro who is peeking under toilets will be more accustomed to finding more offensive items.
I have been using Pex A for 25 years. I actually prefer the copper manifolds. They come valved and unvalved. The Uponor brand is rather expensive but a private label version is available on Ebay. For the stub outs, I have done both but settled on the copper. A nice ridged pipe to put a quality Dahl valve onto.
It's still wild to me that USA plumbers don't just bring out a 1/2" back-plated male thread through the wall and use a 1/2" female threaded minicock for their isolation.
@Navy1977 Australia
Hey, man, I may not be that well-endowed, but whipping out "minicock" is uncalled for.
Americans only use megacock, that’s why
pex through house , copper to outside, all was soldered, I worked a few hours turned off water, sweated off hose bib, cut copper back a bit and sweated on male threaded so hose bibs could be switch out in needed.
I like to use the Hold Right Pex Bend Support with the flange that you can screw straight into studs
I am not a plumber, but maybe 5 years ago, maybe six I used the bend supports, so maybe not so new in 2024
I'm going to have to look into that stubout thing. I didn't get into DIY until I moved into a mobile home and the pex runs in those dont need any kind of bend or stubout, you just run the pex under the floor and straight up into the fixture
You day Shark Bite dates from the millenium. But I was using something similar in the UK in the late 1980"s to do plumbing with copper rather than pex.
Wouldn't it be cool if they put a slight overbend into the pex stub-out bracket (bend support), so that it ends up being an actual 90°?
I also get this nearly-uncontrollable urge to go ice fishing every time I hear Eric speak. ;-)
Those shark bites always have a warning labels on them that states it might have carcinogens in them. Does that mean it can't be used in potable water supply in the house?
The Build Show congratulations on another excellent content! Could you do something related to stainless steel plumbing? Greetings from Brazil!
Which pex would be best for compressed air for a garage?
I have a new house plumbed with Pex, the plumber used non expansion connectors. He also plumbed it as if he used copper pipe. There are 90s everywhere. Not to mention he did not trunk and branch correctly. He went from 1-1/2 mainline straight down to 1/2 Pex to supply the first floor bath and laundry room. 2nd floor he did run 3/4 to our master bath but t’d off with 1/2” to feed the main bath. We have a tankless water heater. We are having pressure and temperature regulation issues. Please advise!!!
@Navy1977
The plumber works for the builder of our development. We had to use this builder.
On top of what I’ve already described, our water meter sticks out 22” from the wall then goes up into the rafters. Plus we have the drain pipe that goes across the middle of the house hanging down 18”. Do I have any legal standing here? This is a $900K 3400 2/ft house. They originally put the electrical meter at our side entryway and told us that they were limited by the power company. That the electrical could not cross over the sewer line. I called the power company and the electrical inspector to prove them wrong. They then changed me $3500 to move the meter to where it should have gone originally. Now I have a 40’ cable in my basement connecting my meter to panel.
@Navy1977
Located in Western Massachusetts, Roulier Associates
It depends on how many fixtures you have, but assuming you have 3 or 4 bathrooms, you will probably want to T off your main using at least 1-inch pipe and then reduce to at least 3/4 inch at/near the fixture. i.e. 1" x 1" x 3/4" Pex Reducing Tee(or whatever your fixture requires) If your fixtures are running 1/2 connections you may want to replace them with at least 3/4, I don't know if 1/2 pex will build up enough pressure at the fixture, but the added water volume will make a huge difference.
90's are fine, so long as the plumber crimped them correctly, but it's always best to use the least amount of fittings as possible, sometimes this can make things more challenging and difficult but less fittings = less shit that can go wrong.
Appreciate the reply. My biggest concern is the 1/2” isn’t really 1/2” when the internal fittings are used. They reduce to 7/16”. Like you mentioned, I have 1/2” feeding everything except our master bath. I actually pointed it out to the plumber during the build and he responded that he hasn’t had any problems with it. Of course not but my $900K 3400 2/ft two story house with 2 & 1/2 baths does.
@@DBTomO I see, so they're using Pex B. Pex A is much better because the fittings do not create flow restrictions. The other issue you're having is volumetric, not just pressure.
I went to Pex B re-pipe in my house during the pandemic and was unable to find any affordable Pex A. I upsized my system from 3/4 copper main to 1-inch Pex B, and I didn't have any pressure issues, and my volume was much better than before.
I ran 1-inch pipes to every fixture then reduced to 3/4 at the fixture. I used a 3/4 to 1/2 push to connect (Quick fitting brand) reduction couplings and I was able to maintain good pressure on my older copper 1/2 fixtures, the newer fixtures were 3/4, and hose spigots are 3/4 as well. The PTC worked out great, because the connecting to the copper did not create a flow restriction, because a pipe stiffener was not needed, but PTC connections require pipe stiffeners if you're using Pex of any kind, which creates flow restrictions.
I think your best bet is to upsize your 1/2 branches to at least 1 inch and reduce to 3/4 at the fixture, then use a reduction coupler to get down to 1/2. Or you could try using a 1-inch x 1-inch x 1/2" Tee directly to your fixture and see how that goes. (might work better actually)
You should notice better performance by upsizing your branch lines to 1 inch, just try to reduce the number of Pex-B fittings to your fixture.
You may want to consider upsizing your fixtures to 3/4, which likely means tearing into your bathroom walls, but I would save this as a last resort.
I'd be interested to hear opinions on water heater expansion tanks vs Thermal Expansion Relief Valves
You need both in a plumbing system. It is not "either or". They perform different functions.
My kiddo and I watch all your videos. :D
I still like using a brass drop-ear screwed to blocking to stub out. Then screw a brass nipple into that (which is what will actually stick out of the drywall) topped off with a 100% brass 1/4 turn valve. After the drywall is in, nobody will be able to tell that there is even pex in the house - the brass nipple coming out of the drywall will be 100% rigid and straight because the drop-ear is secured to the blocking.
Forgot Evo-Pex. Probably will replace most pex connections on new construction like pex pipe replaced copper pipe. Thanks for the video and effort to improve the trades.
@Navy1977 Push to connect. More plastic so it's cheaper and will compete with other forms of connections for new construction. Not removable or reusable.
How do you insulate those multi port "T's"... and the bend supports for that matter? Do they make insulation packs for the T's, and bend supports big enough to hold an insulated pex, or is the plan to just leave that section without any freeze (or hot water) mitigation?
Main issue with pex stub out is you need to cut off the stop valve to change it leaving at times with not enough pex to crimp a new one, I've replaced stop valve on copper while leaving the old compression ring in place if copper is too deformed or not enough to cut. Also the premanufactured copper stub out are soft, I make my own using copper L.
@Navy1977 No, crimping or expansion as most stub outs are short.
I a lot of times find that code compliance is the only difference between a "multiport tee" and a "manifold."
Those plastic stiffeners or inserts tend to tip downward, or ‘nod’ down on horizontal applications, due to gravity. It prevents pipe from entering and socketing inside the fitting.
I replumbed my entire house in 2018 using PEX-A. Ran 3/4" supply lines to each group, terminated with pre-fab'd manifolds, 1/2" line to each fixture, and a recirc pump. I made my own copper stub outs for all the wall and floor penetrations because I don't like the floppy feel or look of the PEX by itself. Even with the bend supports, the PEX doesn't make a full 90 degree turn, and it ends up just looking sloppy and unprofessional.
Making the statement that the copper flange on the stub out is flimsy is misleading. I install the. With a 2 hole strap on the rise and screw the flange in the front with the copper level. It’ll kink the copper before it comes loose. I don’t agree that it’s amateur to stub out pex, but the copper stub out is a better product in my opinion. It’s what I used in my house. You can always sand it and use another compression stop on it if need be, and does “look” more professional.
So the reason I like Copper stub outs is for the anti-bacteria nature of Copper.
Show me that pex stub out where it's actually 90 to the wall. Those brackets don't give you a nice 90.
If you use those 90 bends then that’s cool but let’s be real though the only time we see pex stub outs there’s definitely a 90 fitting in that wall never strapped and never straight
I wonder if the negative perception is a result of people stubbing out with CPVC. I’ve seen a lot of CPVC stub outs broke by people overzealously mopping and bashing against them over and over for years.
Master plumber hahaha
For plumbers it means less work. So does that mean since they are not using copper that the bids in Pex will be cheaper cause copper is not cheaper than pex right so less money mean cheaper bids on jobs that use pex with less labor costs? For a diy job pex would be easier after you buy pex tools maybe. I still like copper for water stuff but pex is easier for a diy job depending on what tool and fittings your going to use.
I have a 7 year old house plumbed with everything shown here except the shark-bite, I doubt my plumber was that ahead of his time....
You guys should test quickfitting PTC. They work really good and have an excellent warranty.
Wow, I thought I was just being lazy stubbing out with Pex, guess I was a visionary 😂. Anyway, what the heck are people talking about with a pex stub being flimsy? If I hit a copper stub with a hammer It'll snap off. Pex will just absorb the hit. Maybe a pex stub would take less abrasion, but what the heck are you doing if your stub is being abraided?
Lots of PEX A failures blamed on hot water recirculation of chlorinated water.
Its not the recirculation it is the chlorine pex A is not chlorine resistant pex B is
@@egancraneriggingservicesin9142 So a PEXa pipe with material designation code 5306 on it is not Chlorine resistant?
250psi at 200F? It's my kitchen sink not a car wash! Perfect example of overkill. Unless the cost is equal or less.
What I like about the copper stub out, is I think plastic sticking into the room is tacky.
Can anyone recommend a plumbing channel?
Rodger Wakefield
@Tilethoughts dudes a burnout no
Professional:
Pex to drop ear behind drywall. (like a showerhead) Stub out with brass nipple.
If your angle stop ever needs replacement, you have threads so you don't need to cut back the pex.
Also, pex stubbouts are garbage. They look like crap and they are too flimsy. And good luck finding good copper these days if you go that route.
Exactly! Where I’m at we don’t stick pex or copper out.
1/2 or 3/4 brass thread. Easy
Not a fan of placing a leak prone threaded connection in a wall where you can't see if it is leaking or not until it's too late. It does look nice though.
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Those 90 degree plastic bends are not really 90 degrees. That always looks sloppy. It’s just easier and faster.
I work for the city and our plumbers have concerns about emergency repairs for places that are plumbed in pex as not all plumbers are certified in it or have the specialty machine to make repairs. Just what I’m hearing from plumbers on the board.
Shark bite style for emergency repairs...nothing faster.
Yes kids need to be taught what it takes to have roofs on their head and how their pooper works instead of wasting their time trying to be famous, bully and get bullied on tiktok and UA-cam!!!
Zurn is a big deal in the industry and I’ve never seen it mentioned on The Build Show, or a BSN affiliate.
I trust copper, solder, and compression fittings. Not buying plastic, not trusting O-rings.
👍
These two professionals kinking the pex in their attempt to use this bracket is all the reason you need not to use these. You don't think an apprentice is gonna do that on every single one? Also even if it doesn't kink, the asymmetrical stress on the pex plastic makes it vulnerable to premature failure. No thanks
PEX is the sign of a half-assed approach to plumbing.
Matt is not a plumber. He is a GC. As a GC he is more of a project manager than a hands on cutting lumber builder.
Innovation, yes but more 2014 than 2024.
So let me understand, all you people want to see copper in the visible areas.
But what is buried inside your walls is irrelevant?
My roof is nice and shiny ,so I dont care about the insulation below.😅
Great video Eric and Matt!
Yeah, I will never stub PEX out of the wall. It'll always either be a copper stub out I can put a compression stop valve on, or I'll put a lug-L and run a chrome threaded nipple and a thread on stop valve. Stubbing PEX out of the wall is lazy and cheap. It's too flexible when you're twisting the knob and looks like garbage. Other than that, every type of pipe has pros and cons. Copper isn't perfect, but it's still the preferred pipe in the commercial space. Properly reamed type L copper will last 50 years plus, if not 100.
Bend supports are an innovation for yall? Really? I like them buy don't pike that they force the pex up against the opposing side of the wall cavity which puts the pipe at risk from lack of protection.
The pex stub out are so flimsy and cheap looking. The angle stops after a few years get stiff,so when you get ready to cut the stop off the pex is to flimsy to hold up. The best is to run the copper through a 2x4 with a tight hole but it takes longer to do so most plumbers don’t want to take the time to do it Right.
Mike… oops 😂💀
Mice chew PEX to access the hole it's ran through. 🐀 Not so with copper.
What about running dedicated lines only to the showers? Nothing worse than getting freezes out in the middle of a hot shower cause someone downstairs flushed a toilet or turned on a dishwasher
The whole shark bite fitting thing is not new tech. These type of fittings have been used for a long time in compressed air applications. Prestolok is a common brand in those type of fittings. The problem I saw with shark bite is that like the compressed air fittings they use cheap orings to seal. It’s probably buna-n. This material can dry out over time and then you can have a problem and a drip leak. For quick fixes and accessible fitting I’d say shark bite is ok. But I’d never bury a shark bite in a wall.
I don't believe it's buna-n . Maybe Polypropylene?
@@lrc87290 The only non-rubber style oring that is commercially common would be teflon. But orings like that are very hard to compress and not a good choice for sealing on a plastic tube. The most common are buna, EPDM, Viton, and silicone. With buna being the cheapest. Which is why I assume shark bites use buna.
@@heathcandybarGoogle is a wonderful thing. EPDM O rings in SharkBite fittings. I wonder how pro press seals their fittings? Oh there is an O Ring inside.
@@heathcandybar they are EPDM O Rings in SharkBite fittings. Pro Press also uses O-rings as a seal
I've had to cut out so many solder joints. They all leak. Replaced with Sharkbite. Will wait 25 years for results.
PEX in 2024 is an "innovation"?!
Copper stub outs only way to go.
All you have to do is get the kinks out.
All the good plumbers stub out in copper, stubbing out in pex is lame
***I made this comment before I watched the video and saw the master plumber stubs out in pex, I meant no disrespect by my comment.
I remember when I was told that PEX will never be as good as copper. Orangeburg was the future and everyone used it. Kytec and a host of other things that were good or bad and are now moving towards or are already part of the annuals of history. Never been one to respect broad statements, they require little thought and are rarely more than cult think.
I like copper stubs for toilets and anything visible. Pex for anything under a sink
That's a good opinion but what if someone doesn't like copper sticking out. I stub out in white pex. I think it looks cleaner.
Who gives a crap?
Plumbers are going to make BANK ripping out all the PEX in 10-15 years when the (already discovered, documented) leeching data goes mainstream.
PEX is carcinogenic and estrogenic. You have a fancy borosilicate glass water bottle but use cheap petrochemical plastic for your pipes? Insanity.
They’re no sending their best
how many things in existence are not controversial?...
Plastic creates fungus so copper is healthier
That's not how fungus works.
@ 2:19 why we use copper over pex coming out of the wall. Is the angle stops will spin., it's a pain in the ass for an older customer to realize why the angle stop spins with the handle. Trash. And if he is a master plumber. Stubbing out in pex is absolutely absurd, he likes it due to it being so cheap. And lazy.
Let's tell the truth you spend a 1/2 a million dollars for house. And have plastic sticking out from the wall looks like crap.
Very sad these days that these corrupt politicians vote party lines and not what is clearly right and wrong by the law.
Thanks for continuing updates & I'd rather trade the stock market as it's more profitable. I make an average of $42,300 per week even though I barely trade myself.
A lot of people still make massive profit from the crypto market, all you really need is a relevant information and some
I've been making a lot of losses trying to make profit trading. Just few weeks ago I lost about $7,000 in a particular trade. Can you helpe out or at least advise me on what to do?.
I will advise you to stop trading on your own if you keep losing. I don't trade on my own anymore, I always required help and assistance
From my personal financial advisor
Wow! Kind of in shock you mentioned expert, Sarah Rolston Burrows. What a coincidence!!
Stumbled upon one of his clients testimonies on
CNBC news last week.
,
Unknown 😂 it's definitely known garbage 😂
Copper don’t try out