Whooooo buddy! Crow snapping Helinox poles and ripping jackets! I really appreciate your viewpoint and the courage it takes to put out a video like this. I can already see you’re getting some heat from the comments but they have no right to throw shade just because they don’t agree with you. We need unbiased opinions folks, not just sunshine and rainbows all the time. I’d be pissed too if the response I got from customer support was some boilerplate template they send out multiple times a day. This is premium equipment we are investing in and we want it to perform, not fail. UL gear is super delicate however and I think you are a little more rough on your gear just like Snackbox 😂 I’d prob recommended Decathlon as a replacement. Cheaper on the wallet makes it an easier pill to swallow when it inevitably wears out or fails. Appreciate ya!
Appreciate it Dave. Yeah, lots of burn pit there on this one. My first…not 100% positive video. Oh well, I kind of knew that if you’re honest and don’t stick to the script…there would be hate. But, some of the comments are fair. I just wanted to put this out there that the jacket is fragile and their customer service is a little less than personal…if that gets heat…it gets heat. I have thick skin. Well, I’m getting older and skin gets thinner with age…😂😂😂
Of course they have a right to throw shade because they don't agree with him. Ever heard of free speech? Not only that but when someone is acting like an entitled youknowwhat and trying to harm a company for something he is responsible for... shame on him, not the ones "throwing shade". If you are going to throw shade disingenuously you better expect it to come back to you.
You are way too kind to companies! They make a jacket that is obviously very delicate. They know they will get complaints (even though they will sell a ton). They take the risk of losing customers but the sales seem to obviously outweigh the loss of customers. They are making a profit and have a terrible warranty. I'm sure others have had both good and bad experiences with them. My ONE AND ONLY experience was a quilt I purchased about 6 years ago that was absolutely terrible. I froze at 10 degrees above the rating. I've heard it was because they underfilled the down but have since fixed that. I also had an experience with them on a business level I was not impressed with. No money or product was exchanged but they way they wanted to use me to sell products was to work for free and I got essentially nothing in return.. that was all I needed to hear. I've never looked at them since.
Thanks Dan! Appreciate the comment on this one. I kind of knew I would get some negative comments on this one from people. But, in the end, I am being real about the experience I had. Some of this is on me…I should have thought this jacket was not durable enough for me. But, lesson learned. I just think companies have to stand behind what they make. UL or not…appreciate the support on this and thanks for sharing your experience as well. Crow✌️
If you watch the video, I admitted that this was on me. Not doing my research. That was the point of the video. I simply wanted the company that sold the jacket to repair it. When I did n tris video, I knew there would be differences of opinion. That is fine. But, there is no reason to be nasty about it. In the end, it is just a jacket. The point of the video is basically…don’t do what I did and do your research and recognize that UL gear is not that durable, so, buyer beware. Plus, there are companies that are a lot better with customer service. No need to attack Dan. Just give your opinion.
Hey Crow! Interesting topic, this popped up on my Facebook feed. I understand the frustration with putting a hole in a new piece of gear (I've done it myself) but I think everyone needs to check their expectations of gear companies. Even the ones that some don't consider "cottage" any longer like EE. If you bought an $80k vehicle from a dealership and accidentally bumped into another car on your way out of the lot would you expect the dealer to do anything? They would offer a touch-up kit for a cost or suggest a body shop to get the damage repaired if they couldn't do a repair in-house. I also know that EE doesn't offer repairs any longer which is why they recommended a patch kit or the 3rd party to get it fixed. In this situation, you chose an ultralight jacket that offered different fabric options and chose to go with the 10D and not the 20D material which is much more durable. Then when it gets a hole due to normal use you have an issue with the company that made it. I just don't think that's fair, you made a choice and did something to create the hole. It's frustrating nonetheless but everyone needs to accept personal responsibility for their decisions. Now if the seams come apart or there's a manufacturing error when you receive it then you should absolutely hold the company liable but that's not the case here. EE could have put a more personal touch and not offered such a scripted answer but I do agree with their warranty. I think the title should have been "I made a mistake!" You seem like a good dude Crow, I just don't think it's helpful to fan the entitlement flames. It's an epidemic these days.
Fair points and a great perspective. Well said. Yeah, I guess my main points for those watching is, do your research. This jacket just didn’t work for me…too fragile. Thanks for watching it. Crow✌️
This jacket is for people who understand how to handle UL equipment and realize that this type of equipment requires a level of care greater than heavier weight materials. My opinion is that this is one of those situations where you take responsibility for your actions, not blame the company, patch it and move on having learned a valuable lesson. Plus now you’ve got some awesome trail patina on your jacket and a story. Love your videos Crow.
Very fair points! I agree. I have moved on. I still use the jacket. Just wanted people to know not to make the same mistake I made. But, you’re right and that is fair. Thanks for watching it. Crow✌️
I've never had a very positive outlook on EE and your experience confirms the opinion I formed over 4 years ago. It started when I was performing my exhaustive research on quilts for hammocks. One of the things I wanted was the ability to have a quilt overstuffed. EE didn't offer it. Then as I researched more, I would read various posts from different people in different forums about how their EE quilts didn't perform as expected. That was a red flag. EE feels like a big company masquerading as a cottage company and I think your experience backs that up. For the record, I did buy all of my quilts from a cottage manufacturer and I have never been let down by those quilts, even making it down to -2F and staying toasty warm.
@@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING No joke. It took me about 6 months of research to make my selection. I looked at Loco Libre, UGQ, Warbonnet, Hammock Gear, and Jacks'R'Better. I settled on Warbonnet under quilts and top quilts. They offered the lightest hammock under quilt on the market with the ability to customize colors and add over stuff. All of my quilts are 15D Ripstop to make sure they have hold up to rigorous use (I don't trust 10D ad the weight savings wasn't worth the possible issues) {knock on wood, no wear issues in 4 years}. My 40F degree set has no over stuff and I've had them down to 38F degrees with no cold spots. The 20F degree set have 1oz overstuff and have been excellent. My 0F degree quilts have 3oz overstuff and the have been my stalwart defense against cold, going down to -2F degrees I was toasty warm in my hammock. My top quilts match my UQ in makeup. I ordered mine wide with pad straps and I have gone to grown with them a few times with no issues. The extra width allows me to sleep on my side and not have any drafts.
@@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING one other thing I forgot to mention. I would always see EE quilts for sale on E-bay. That was a major red flag and caused me to dig deeper and then I found the people complaining about cold issues and the E-bay sales made much more sense.
I think this video is a good example of being sure your equipment is suitable for each hike. If you're hiking in the wide open spaces out west, yeah, go for the lightest item possible that will keep you safe. However, if you're going to be in the woods with a lot of brush, etc., perhaps a heavier denier is called for.
Well said! Yeah, you actually said it better than I did in the video. I didn’t do my research. I shouldn’t have bought this jacket because, the trips I do…I will probably rip it. When you get ultralight gear…it is a risk. Thanks for watching it. Great comment! ✌️
Thanks for sharing your experience, Crow! I have heard negative stuff about temp ratings from them (like Dan Becker’s experience in his comment), but it’s a shame they couldn’t even provide a little empathy, even if they weren’t willing to do a free repair. I don’t have any EE gear, and it sounds like I ought to keep it that way. I hope you’re able to get your hands one day something a bit more durable for those wet conditions!
Appreciate your input. Yeah, I leaned a lot of lessons from this experience. Most of all, I need to do more research before purchasing such expensive gear. All is good though. I patched it and will move on. Appreciate you watching it. Crow✌️
I love my Torrid jacket. I have been using it for a little over two years now. I do understand how fragile it is and that is often a point of concern for me. It definitely is made for ultralight hikers who hike on fairly open trails. I can’t imagine what it would look like if you were to fall into a big saw brier bush. Would not be much left. lol I surveyed, in the woods, for about 25 years. None of the clothing the average hiker wears would have survived or protected them from the environment we were in. Carhartt jackets, 8” logger boots and heavy blue jeans and leather gloves, were a common choice of clothing on my crew. Even then our clothing took a beating. 🤔 Come to think of it, I really don’t want to carry an Arctic Carhartt coat or bushwhack my way through a seemingly impassable section of land ever again. lol I understand your frustrations with the response to your inquiry. That definitely was not a good way to respond to a concern customer. I hope they will improve after seeing your video. Thanks for posting this video. It’s good to see and hear others experiences and opinion.
That is a very thoughtful and excellent comment! Appreciate that. Yeah, my main point is to do your research…I didn’t do that well. Great jacket. Just not for me. I think they should include a patch kit with the jacket price. Otherwise, I have loved tiger quilts. I have two of them. Appreciate your comment and watching the video. Crow✌️
You did a great job putting out your experience in this video. Not bashing just stating facts on your experience. At the very least I feel their customer service could have been more personable. Unfortunately a growing trend in this world especially as these cottage companies grow to well not really cottage any longer.
I had similar experience with Hammock Gear. Brand new DCF tarp with doors. 1st night using it, it got shredded by the wind.. shredded right off the ridge line.. into pieces. Totally un repairable and unusable. Having 2 other DCF tarps from them, plus multiple down quilts and under quilts, I emailed them explaining what happened and sent pictures and video. Being a loyal return customer.. I was not expecting a full refund or a new tarp.. but i was hoping for a replacement maybe 50% off. Absolutely nothing. They said sorry.. and offered 20% off a new one.. which.. thanks.. but they were having a 20% sale the following week or so anyway.. hence I decided to ditch the expensive dcf tarps and now only use Silpoly. Packs much smaller, costs WAAAAAY less money and does the job exactly the same!
Crow thanks for letting me know 👍 I purchased a Montane synthetic jacket in 2022 and during a trip to the city, the right lower sleeve had a cigarette burn along with an area above the pocket. I had the jacket less than 6 weeks and the burn holes with either malicious or accidental? So I knew Montane has a repair department and a standard repair cost of £30 for replacing panels. Within several days the jacket was returned as good as knew with no signs of repair. How they did it is still a mystery to me. Great customer service 👌atb Taff 🤠👊
I think you are correct to post your thoughts. That’s what you do. Some are going to agree, others won’t. Don’t let it bother you. Customer service is poor everywhere in general. I typically value a product at least 50% on service. I tend to become a solid fan when I experience good customer service. Those companies tend to earn my lifelong support while the others lose it. This gear is expensive and there should be a reasonable amount of durability associated with its intended purpose. IMO the obsession with lighter and lighter is sacrificing durability while the costs seem to go up.
Thanks so much for your comment. This is probably my first controversial video with something that is a bit negative. I expected people to have negative comments. And I get it. I had some reservations making the video. But, my overall point is…be careful buying UL gear. Some of it is not as durable as you think it is. This is on me….i should have done better research. But, I did want to share this. Appreciate it very much that you watched it. Crow✌️
I watched a review of the Torrid (Darwin maybe?) & figured it's too delicate for me. Since watching the video I have purchased an Enlightened synthetic quit & it's great but the fabric confirmed my thoughts about the jacket. I eventually bought a synthetic puffy from Decathlon for about $65, about 1/3 the price of the Torrid & I'm so happy with it. It's not an elite ultralite piece of equipment but to me it's superior, cheaper & more practical & I'm really glad I bought it 👍
So true! Yeah, most of this is on me. It is a good lesson for me and others getting into UL gear. I think it promoted a fair discussion. I took some heat on it, which is fair…ultimately though, I am a big believer in customer service. I will buy more quilts and gear. Just not from EE. That is the beauty of a free market. Appreciate your comment. Well said. Crow✌️
There are certain brands that I won’t buy their gear because they use fabrics that are not tough enough for what I’ll put them through. Some of these cottage gear companies are charging outrageous prices that make Arcteryx look cheap in price. It’s disappointing to get gear you are excited to try, only to find it’s a POS and you could have spent half the money on something else. I hope these guys step up and make this right. You’ve got a massive following, not the publicity a small company like that needs. Hope you are well my friend!
Hi Crow. Interesting video. I’m curious what alternative you consider “more durable”. The Mountain Hardware Ghost Whiperer comes in a 10d ripstop nylon outer as well. The decathlon is about 15D. You can get a 20d material on the torrid. I melted my torrid one night by the camp fire. I got the patch kit and moved on. It still holding up today and that was probably 5 years ago. Anyways, take care. I hope you can find the jacket you are looking for.
That’s good to hear. Ultimate, I just think they should include a patch kit with the purchase, like all the sleeping pad companies do. My main point with this video is…do your research. I am glad there was a healthy discussion about it. I have had the Decathalon jacket for a while, it has held up with a lot of wear on it. I should have just stayed with it. Appreciate you watching it. Crow✌️
Sorry to hear about your experience. I bet they get tons of complaints about your exact issue and just can't deal with it all. Also... nice sticker collection!
I appreciate you doing this video, and with some of the people who are commenting here, I won’t never purchase from this company. I have stuck with UGQ and they have been great, but good to know how this company operates.
damn, that's crazy I love my torrid just goes to show everyone can have a different exp. Mine lasted an entire thru hike definitely got some snags, but just patched em up.
It’s a good jacket. I must have just gotten hooked on something. Not sure. Just wanted to put it out there…kinda of fragile. Appreciate ya! It’s all good. ✌️
no I think your video is valid don't get me wrong. I think everyone has different exps with companies too. I know a ton of people who hate zpacks but they have never done me wrong and their customer support is great. granted I guess you just never know. it doesnt seem to be consistent @@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING
I bought an EE quilt 10 years ago and about 4 years later I washed and dried it according to their instructions. Some of the down migrated out of the lower baffles into other chambers and I couldn't fix it. I comtacted EE and they fixed it for the cost of one way shipping. They even added some more down! I am sad to hear that you had a bummer experience. Perhaps they have just gotten too big now. 😕
Crow thanks for your honest assessment of the jacket. I’m with ya totally understand UL gear is fragile but I agree maybe they could be personable enough to actually reply to you in person instead of just copying & pasting their warranty.
Yeah, I thought so as well. I mean, you pay a lot of money for this stuff. I just felt they could have been a little nicer. Oh well, it’s all good. I bought a patch kit and will move on. Lesson learned. Thanks for watching it. Crow✌️
I’ve seen a lot of videos about that jacket and the general consensus was while it is warm it should only be worn at camp or a durable layer worn over it, the same thing popped up about how fragile the outer layer is.
Thanks for your comment Mike. Ultimately, that is the point of this video. I learned a valuable lesson. Most of this is on me. I just thought they should include a patch kit in the price of the jacket. It will rip. Appreciate it. Crow✌️
sorry this happened to you. they should have done the right thing and helped repair the jacket. I recently bought the enlightening equipment convert. I will definitely make sure to keep this in mind if something happens to my quilt. thank you for sharing this information
Yeah, I am not a controversial kind of creator. Every other video I have done is strictly vanilla content. But, this was fun and it created a good discussion. Ultimately, my purpose was to give awareness of the fragile jacket and what you are getting. Thanks for always watching and commenting on my videos. Crow✌️
That's rough with the costumer handling there. I had a bike crash where a tore some minor shreds in my Patagonia Micro Puff jacket and Patagonia costumer service wrote me they are sorry for my crash and they hope I am alright. They told me I could get it repaired at a nearby tailor and send them the receipt and they would cover a repair costing up to 30£.
I've had my Torrid for a couple of years now and really like the performance in cold weather, but, have always been fearful about wearing it anywhere except around camp. The 10D seems very fragile. Wished I'd ordered the 20D version instead so I could wear it more places. So I ordered a Outdoor Vitals Vario Hoody, 20D, for around town wear. Much more robust jacket and still pretty lightweight. May use it as my mid layer on really cold trips as it fits nicely under the Torrid. Enjoy your videos.
Appreciate the comment! Well said. Yeah, I wish I had seen the 20d version as well. Great lesson learned. Your comment is good information to those who are considering this jacket. Thanks so much for watching the video. I appreciate it very much. Crow✌️
great insight, ee has had other problems with product description and customer service. goose/duck down, fiasco....good on you for taking the responsibility of a consumer, with that said, though they really need to think twice on a repair service, at their stage in the game and volume every other company does this. by the way when researching synthetic jackets also research does synthetic insulation really keep you warm when wet. You'll be surprised how many times you'll see "as long as the face material does not wet out"
Great points! Yeah, I was disappointed…oh well, live and learn. My main point was really…be careful when you buy UL stuff. I should have done more research on it. Appreciate ya! Crow✌️
I have the EE Torrid, I like it, but yeah it's delicate. I really think that the exterior fabric should be 20d as the standard. I can see both sides as to whether they should have repaired it, truthfully I think a patch or Tenacious Tape is a better fix than sewing it, but the way that they communicated that with you is unsat IMO. I personally prefer a grid fleece hoodie and a rain jacket. The fleece is better than a puffy as an active layer, and around camp it pairs well with a rain jacket to increase the warmth a bit
Great comment! I’m glad you see both sides on this. I actually do as well. But, I wanted to give my opinion. I actually took ownership of it and basically said, I should have done more research. The point is…people should do their research before buying UL gear. I like the jacket. I put the patch on and will use it…just a battle scar. 😂✌️
I wore that jacket for 185 days on the AT and had no issues with tears. As a matter of fact I have worn that jacket on several trails in Europe and Africa without any failures. With that said the customer service experience you received was not the best and EE should learn from this experience and do a better job in the future. Happy Hiking
Hey there! I used to run the CS department at Enlightened. I am disappointed to hear that they gave you such a non-empathetic response. Ultimately I agree with their policy, for UL backpacking gear, I always buy with the understanding that the payoff of weight savings is a particular level of fragility. I the case of a jacket that’s SUL fabric like this, I likely would have emailed simply asking if they had a suggestion on a good patch, which ultimately would lead me to a challenge patch like the sheet you shown. So ultimately, their gear is good, their repair offered is sufficient, and their CS is lacking the human touch. I do really love it when companies go above and beyond though.
Excellent point! I knew when I did this video there would be some blow back. And I think it is justified. I probably didn’t do a good job with my point. But, EE makes good products. My only real dissatisfaction was the response. All I wanted for was EE to fix it, not another jacket. Plus, I wanted people to know that I kind of recommended this jacket in my 2024 new gear video…I shouldn’t have done that without working with the gear for a while. And, a lot of this is on me…I should have seen this jacket was too fragile for what I do. Appreciate you excellent comment! Great points. Appreciate you taking the time to watch it. Crow✌️
@@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING thanks Man! I hate being excited for new gear and having it get messed up immediately. Fortunately I have avoided the ember hitting my jacket or camp chair so far! All my friends, not so much.
Crow, did you look at the OV Vario Jacket when deciding? I got the Torrid and might be having a little buyer's remorse....I knew the Torrid was fragile, but just saw a friend's Vario, and it's comparable in price, weight, insulation (as far as I can tell), and just feels more durable. And, it kept me just as warm when I tried it.
Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll definitely check that out. I don’t have any OV stuff, but, need to try them out. Appreciate you watching it. Crow✌️
@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING absolutely, love your stuff. A lot of Outdoor Vitals clothing is pretty trim fit, and I've eaten too much southern food lately. But the Vario Jacket fit nicely.
Crow i hate this happened to you! Ive got the same jacket and it is very delicate. I have questioned the durability. I also had lackluster customer services with EE. It took me over 5 months to get my jacket. Every email was answered basically the same... "its on the way." Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope your path holds up and you're able to get every penny you spent on it out of it! STU
I think we all get sucked into ultralight so much that we forget that we are literally using the equivalent of a ziplock baggie to protect our insulation. No way it was ever intended to be durable. Super lightweight and sort of warm in a February drizzle. But any sort of backcountry brush, it’s compromised. I buy expensive equipment, very guilty of that. But I also know that as soon as I brush it against anything, it’s my fault and nobody else’s. “I’m done with EE” is very extreme. I’d rather say I’m done with taking tissue paper as my protection in the rugged backcountry. My layers are still very expensive but tried and true.. my nano puffs have been scraped, thrown, ember burned, briar nicked, rough housed in every weather, and never once have I complained that my very expensive $250 jacket has battle scars. It was built to handle that at the expense of a few ounces. Honestly crow it’s a mental thing - sacrifice a handful of ounces for peace of mind in protecting yourself, and not your feelings or status for an expensive tissue paper jacket. That fragile material is for inside the tent, ie sleep systems, not rugged backcountry protection. But i know you know that. As for asking for a repair, any company in the country would stand by workmanship, but not accidental damage.. day 1 or 100, unless they offered a protection plan.
Side note - this past Fall I road tripped out west to Colorado and Utah. Trip of a lifetime! I slept in back of my suv at times, on my brand new thermarest winter pad. Silly me kept it inflated in the car, after sleeping in Kansas overnight. Next day I’m driving thru the Rockies past Denver.. I hear a POP.. POP.. POP.. I was like wth was that? Pulled over later and say the pad ballooned up from air pressure in the altitude… brand new $250 pad destroyed.. i was pissed but it was my fault. I tossed it in a dumpster in Utah. I could have tried the “return/repair” game but I knew I F’d up. Ah well. Good thing I brought my multi-patched Nemo tensor as backup. :)
Excellent comment. Yeah, that is fair…I took the risk and was not happy with the result. Once is received the jacket…I really should have know what I was getting into. I own that and most of this was on me. My only issue was the customer service and lack of personal touch. In the end, I think they should at the least provide a patch kit with this jacket…it will rip. But, I own a lot of this and fully recognize it. UL is like you said…a Ziploc bag of durability. It just sucks to pay this amount of money and have no durability. In the end, the discussion I see in the comments is exactly what I hoped to accomplish. People should be aware of what they are getting into. I learned a valuable lesson in this and will use it going forward. Appreciate ya! Crow✌️
To add to this, EE markets their products to the hiking community. That being said, as a hiker, one would presume that under normal usage that it would not rip straight away. So yes, anyone should hold them accountable that their gear would be able to handle normal usage for what the product is marketed by & for....
Thanks my friend. I agree. In the end, I think they should at least provide with the purchase a patch kit. I mean, all the sleeping pad companies give you one. Thanks for always watching the videos my friend. Crow✌️
Part of the deal when you start getting down to 7-10 d fabrics. You trade durability for weight. That being said I feel in the interest of keeping a happy customer and the tear being so small they should have fixed it. Builds trust and gets the customer to hopefully keep them in mind when they are looking for other options within EE’s portfolio.
Sorry this happened. I have 4 EE quilts and they’ve all served me well. That being said, it really concerns me that EE’s customer service responded to you in such a blanketed, impersonal manner. These UL jackets are fragile. I have a Ghost Whisperer puffy that had a seam come apart on the sleeve before it ever made it to the trail. Thanks for sharing your experience.✌️
Appreciate it! Yeah, I have had a similar experience with the quilts. They have served me well. I guess my overall thought on this is…exactly what you said…be careful when you buy UL gear. It is not as durable as other gear. Appreciate ya! ✌️
I'm not going to EE again. Paid HUNDREDS for a -15 bag I can't use. Now, I did not contact CS since I ordered a custom color. They specify that it cannot be returned if it is a customer order, however I followed THEIR chart sizing when ordering a short bag. Supposedly due to my height, I should have had much extra material. What they did not mention at all (and I should have figured it out) if you are a female with hips, that pulls down on the top of a short bag and makes it shorter. And you can imagine that since I bought a -15, it was for COLD weather and now I have a useless bag that only goes across my chest. I feel that the sizing info was bad and bare minimum and I would not have wasted so much money, but would have purchased a more suitable size and the path of least resistence not been the employed tactic for sizing information.
Dang! That hurts. Sorry this happened to you. I have really liked the two quilts I have from them. But, I was not happy with the customer service. Oh well, we live and learn. Crow✌️
This is one of the pieces of gear I'm still considering purchasing, and other jackets and pants like it, for not hiking, but sitting around camp and in particular, waiting for trains to roll by in remote areas as I film them. I freeze my butt off when waiting hours for the next train out in the boonies, where it's much more scenic, yet I'm not actually walking around to keep me warm. Currently, I have to jog in place and do squats, stuff like that. I'm talking about during the autumn with highs in the ~50s and lows in the 20s to 30s. This piece of fragile equipment would probably keep me warmer, but I sure wouldn't hike in it due to its cheap exterior.
Great comment! Appreciate your thoughts on this. After reading a lot of comments, maybe consider the 20d fabric, instead of the 10d. I didnt know that was an option. But, also consider the customer service, which in my experience was not good. Crow✌️
@@maxe_faxe Well there's other variables to consider such as base layers but I've never had a jacket that keeps me as warm as the Decathlon. If you want to spend $200 on a jacket because it's slightly lighter in weight go for it, but I would recommend looking at the Decathlon before making your decision. You can get three Decathlons for the price of one Torrid
I've had a few people tell me about the substandard EE customer service. I've heard a few other negative things about the company but I haven't been able to confirm anywhere, so I won't post what they are. Regardless, I'm sorry to hear about your experience and thank you for letting the rest of us know the facts.
After lots of thought, I decided for myself that I would go with the cheap frogtoggs. I use it around the fire to protect my puffy and if I tear it up in the brush or get it filthy dirty, Im not too upset. Im even more reckless while hiking knowing my jacket is fairly cheap. When im wearing the expensive jackets i find myself being waaaaay more cautious and in turn gives me anxiety haha! Thats probably a me problem though lmao great video Crow! Customer service means everything to me! So its always sad to hear when the customer service doesnt match a great product.
Excellent comment Zak. Well said. Yeah, that is the way I feel with some of this expensive gear. Lesson learned by me on this one. I did buy two pages worth of patches from EE…I think they will probably come in handy. It is like getting a new car…after the first scratch, you do t worry about it as much. 😂✌️
Fair video. It seems like since covid companies have decided to charge as much as possible and don't give a damn about customers. I have become very jaded when dealing with companies. I think they deserve zero slack because of their attitude and tone, even when they are right about something. People can be nice, but I suppose they think they don't have to be these days. I looked at that jacket at Quest Outdoors in Louisville, KY and it's the most flimsy, delicate thing in the world. The Ghost Whisperer is stupid expensive, but much tougher. You can get the Ghost Whisperer on sale if you are patient for about half price. That make it better and cheaper than the EE jacket.
Great comment. I agree, since Covid, some companies have really decided that customer service is not a priority. But, it will be their downfall. Thanks For watching the video. Appreciate it. Crow✌️
Yeah…I should have realized that. Some of this is on me. Going forward, I will only wear it sitting around the campfire and watch for those embers. 😂✌️ Thanks for watching it Tim! Hope all is well. Crow
I have jackets and equipment that are very delicate also. I am very careful with them as I am with all my gear and it lasts a very long time. But I also have friends that use a lot of the same gear and destroy it very quickly. I’m not actually knocking on you. But if you’re the kind of person that’s hard on gear, then really delicate fabrics are probably not for you. I actually love your videos. You’re one of the few that dare to show there religious values. But you’re not preachy about it. Keep it up.😊
Appreciate your thoughts on this. I totally agree. Yeah, I’m not really knocking EE, they were just a little less than personal. But, they make good stuff. I should have seen this jacket was too fragile for me. Thanks for your comments on my faith. Yeah, I don’t want to preach. Everyone has their own faith or not. Just sharing a bit of my own. Appreciate ya! ✌️
I’d considered it - but I really got scared off by the fragile-ness of it. I’m very rough on gear - going over/under trees, scrubbing along rocky faces, and overgrown trails. It’d be fine as a camp jacket - but not one I’d use on the trail. I’ll stick with my alpha fleece/photon jacket combo. Sorry that it ripped so easily and that their customer service wasn’t as expected. Unfortunately I’ve had my own issues with a different brand who didn’t stand behind their product and instead blamed me! Some companies just don’t have the best service- they just want to take the money and run!
Thanks RoseLee. Yeah, a lot of this is on me. I should have seen exactly what you said in your comment. This jacket is not one to wear on the trail. It is one to sit at camp with. I should have seen that. Their response was fine…just not very personal. I get it, they are in the business of making money. Ultimately, I think they should at the very least send a patch kit with the jacket…like sleeping pads companies do. Oh well, live and learn. Crow✌️
I had a negative experience with the customer service at another BIG backpacking gear company. Like you, I’m not selling the gear because it’s good gear but I’ve bought my last piece of gear from them. Also, they have the interpersonal skills of a wounded badger. 😂🦑
Thanks for the info, Brad. That shady warranty verbiage gives them the ability to categorically deny any failure of their products. I get that you have to do your research for the hiking environment you’ll be in when selecting gear, but if you’re (EE) charging an exorbitant amount of money for gear marketed for the outdoors, you dont expect to have to hike in a bubble to keep it from failing, particularly for an outer layer. I dont think asking for a reasonably priced repair from the manufacturer is cause for outrage. A couple of gratis patches would have at least shown some effort. This is why I wont jump on the alpha direct bandwagon-too much risk for the cost. But its more about their flip, rubber stamp attitude towards resolving the issue that speaks volumes about their management. Its not like you were trying to scam free product out of them, just asking them to meet you halfway in resolving the issue and standing behind their product. There are too many other choices out there for them to get my money.
Thanks so much. You actually said it better than what I tried to say. 😂 Yeah, I just feel like if we are spending this kind of money, they should at least help you getting it fixed. I appreciate your comments and thoughts on this. I knew when I put this out there…unlike any video I have ever done, that people would bring the heat, and they didn’t disappoint 😂. No worries, I have thick skin. Just my opinion. I know that I am just one voice on this. Everyone has to find their on way in the backpacking gear journey. Thanks for supporting the channel. Crow✌️
I took the Torrid jacket with me on the A.T. last year and it survived without damage. I only wore it in camp/town and always kept it in a dyneema stuff sack in my pack the rest of the time. Your experience with CS is frustrating and disappointing. Companies like EE who rely on sales from within the hiking community would do well to listen to your comments. Makes me think about the stickers they include with purchase and how EE portrays this chill image. Let's hope it was just one grump over there in CS and not a total epidemic.
Great comment. Yeah, some of this is on me. I really should have just worn this at camp and not on trail. I wasn’t rough with it. But, somehow it ripped. I just think it is too fragile with the 10 D material. Oh well, live and learn. I was disappointed with their customer service. Maybe just offering a free patch kit would have been good for me. Crow✌️
I’m sorry this happened to you on the first use. I have been wearing the Torrid for a couple years, even while actively hiking and I’ve never had any damage. I even wear it in my day to day life. Not even a scratch! This is the risk you take with a jacket that weighs 7oz. It’s not made of steel. Not sure how you got the tear, but this is no fault of the company that you made a simple mistake. If they repaired every bit of damage a customer sustained on their gear, they wouldn’t have time to make new gear to sell. I got a scratch on my car. That doesn’t make it the maker’s fault! Sorry if I’m sounding a little Fierce. It’s just my nature! 😜 Hike on!
Fair point! And ultimately that is what I am trying to say with this video. That and…maybe EE could be a little more personal with their customer service. But, I hear ya, I own a lot of this in buying a 7 ounce jacket. That is what I said in the video. Appreciate the great input on this. Crow✌️
Have two EE quilts and no issues except I wouldn’t push the temp ratings. Have seen these same jackets rip in light conditions. With each patch you will look more like a trail hobo. Badge of honor I guess.
Appreciate it Metro. A lot of the people that have been triggered by the video don’t see the point of this…when you buy UL gear, this can happens. So, buyer beware. Thanks for watching it my friend. Crow✌️
Hey Crow! Although the response they gave you was certainly disappointing, I think you may have just had a fluke on the first trip. My Torrid jacket has hundreds of miles on it and still looks brand new. It does need to be treated with a little care but its definitely a proven product based on a lot of experience from other hikers. I believe Darwin has thousands of miles on a torrid jacket with no serious issues, and his was made of the thinner 7D material. I don't say that to mean that your concerns are unwarranted. I only mean to offer some optimism that the rest of your experience with the jacket should likely be better. I do consider the Torrid jacket to be an excellent value. Its warmer than the Mountain Hardware Ghost Whisperer while being very similar in weight while costing a lot less. As a ultralight cottage company, warranty policies are difficult to craft especially for items made with the very thin materials like quilts and jackets. We aren't masss producing gear overseas. That said, a more personalized response and some assistance with a patch would have been nice to see.
Excellent points and a great perspective from a cottage company. Appreciate this very much. My only real complaint was the lack of personal response. Didn’t want a new jacket…just for them to repair it. But, this patch works great. It is more durable than the fabric. Ultimately, I just wanted people to understand how fragile this jacket can be. That is on me…I should have seen that. EE makes good stuff. Just not that happy with their response. Appreciate ya! Crow✌️
Ultralight equipment is kind of fragile that’s why nosopatches has a company selling just patches. It sucks that happened but it is a 10d jacket at the end of the day.
Hahaha you said, "I'm not a big UA-camr" and Mister paused the video and went down and checked your subscriber count and turned to me and said in a "tone"... "I'm not a big UA-camr!" Well Crow... you are to some of us!! 🙂 Ya I bet that was a tough video to make. I noticed alot of jump cuts where you were probably trying to figure out just how to say stuff! Fair video though! I think it comes off well. They seems like a bigger company... which is probably the problem!
You hit the nail on the head…lots of jump cuts…not sure what to say. Not trying to trash the company. I love the two quilts I have. I just wanted people to know that I made a mistake when I did the 2024 video about new gear…like I may have recommended the jacket without really thinking through it. The jacket really isn’t an outer layer…not durable enough. Appreciate you watching it Mark. You guys are awesome. Crow✌️
Good information to help someone make an informed decision. What I love about UA-cam Review Videos. They come from regular people out there trying to get the most out of their hard earned money. Makes me nervous when I make initial impression videos. Initially, a product may appear to be flawless - but time always reveals the imperfections. I wish you could go back and amend a previously posted video if need be.
I hear ya! Yeah, I shouldn’t have jumped the gun on that gear video for 2024 Becuase I kind of gave the impression that it was something I was recommending. I learned a valuable lesson on this one. Appreciate you watching it my friend! ✌️
Some of these fabrics are really not suitable for outerwear. They are banking on people chasing the almighty gram. Ive been using a synthetic puffy for 15 years and it has zero tears. Yes it is heavier. My Patagonia micro puff only got holes in it when Ruby jumped up with her puppy teeth and grabbed my arm...It's doing ok otherwise but I still think the fabric is a bit heavier. At the very least they could've sent you some patches. It is disappointing and I probably won't be replacing my 15 year old 1/2 zip puffy with a torrid jacket. I hope the jacket got that rip out of its system...
I had a negative experience with EE back when they were updating fill weights for their quilts. Mine was made pre-update by like 2 weeks and I asked if they would correct to new update fill weight standard after getting it, but the response I got was basically nope. I used the quilt for a bit until I could save to purchase a new one from different company. I wont use EE products again ever.
I have heard a lot of issues like this since posting the video. Sorry that happened to you. It really is all about customer service to me. All the companies I have dealt with in the backpacking niche have much better service than I experienced with EE. It is a lessoned for me. Best of luck my friend. Crow✌️
Yeah, Franklin, you are correct. We have no right to have an opinion on this or anything else. Please write down your thoughts on all the issues inn the world so we can agree with you . 😂✌️
At the end of the day, regardless of who may or not be at fault...there is quality customer service and there is not. EE could have handled the situation differently, even w/the same result and how Crow feels about the jacket and company could be quite different (I'll defer to Crow on this). Many of us absolutely HATE reaching out to 'customer service' (which needs to have a new name, as that is oft-times wholly inaccurate) so when we do, we hope for a good experience. That did not happen. Presentation and communication are key to keeping customers, even when you can't give them what they want. EE failed....big time.
Great comment! You actually said it better than I did. I think these companies can reach the same results with customers with a little empathy. I do think they should include a patch kit with the jacket. That would be great. Thanks for your support my friend. Crow✌️
For what they charge for their products, they should be more willing to stand behind those products....Your result speaks to the culture of the company, and the people that run that company. If a company won't stand behind their products...why should I buy them ?
I agree! Yeah, super expensive jacket…it really isn’t durable. But, really, I just want people to know that it isn’t really durable. I was hoping they would fix the jacket, since they made it. The patch is ok. Just disappointed. Thanks for watching it. Crow✌️
Nathan, I tend to agree. I got caught up in it…but, I guess I should have seen that they don’t hold up like normal gear. That is on me. I just wanted people to hear my experience and make informed purchases. Appreciate your input on this. Crow✌️
I think you did a great job on the review! Simple and to the point and you owned up to your lessons learned! I think ill be sticking with the just “L” but durable equipment! 😂
I agree. I wanted them to repair it. I certainly would have paid for the repair. Or at least they could give me a patch kit. Instead they made me pay for a patch kit. Oh well, just not a company I will be purchasing from going forward. I still like the two quilts I have from them though. ✌️
I am not familiar with your videos but this popped up in my feed as I do have an EE quilt. It baffles me that as someone with a dedicated channel to hiking and whatnot, is that you didn't realize this jacket would have this issue. Was this your first time with EE or this being exposed to this material? If so, I completely understand. If not, quickly reviewing the material to understand it, you should be aware it should not be used as an exterior protective layer. Their CS, to me, did their job: patch or stitch it up. I don't work for them, but I imagine they have a significant amount of people making your same mistake and wanting free replacements or repairs. The warranty is also very clear, which is the 2nd paragraph, the one below what you circled. Normal wear and tear. Had it been a seam or defect, I expect they would resolve adequately.
Great comment. Yeah, your point is precisely where I messed up. I assumed I could use this as an outer layer. I do take issue with their warranty. “At our discretion” is no warranty at all, in my opinion. But, I agree, they can’t replace everything. I was just disappointed in the product and wanted people to know, basically what you are saying…it isn’t really good for an outer layer. No issues with EE in total. They make good quilts. But, can’t really support them after their lack of a personal response. Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment and watching the video. Crow✌️
That’s sucks man. Customer service has truly gone down hill and like you said their warranty is odd. I would accept something like “no free repairs” over that. It truly seems to say “if we think it will hurt the brand we will help…. If not sorry”
No, I wouldn’t expect them to watch it. This video was only to help people when choosing ultralight gear to know that it can be fragile. Also, to be aware of the warranty, which basically says…”it is in our discretion” so, EE can do what they want and either help with a patch kit or not.. Nothing wrong with that, just be aware of it. I have nothing against EE. They make good products. The people who have hated on this video didn’t watch it. They just saw the thumbnail and decided to troll. Thanks for watching it. Crow✌️
Appreciate ya! No, I know you watch the videos. Seriously though, I probably shouldn’t have done the thumbnail I did. It took away from the point of the video. Live and learn. Thanks for always watching my friend. ✌️
Man, that really sucks Crow. Nothing worst than being on the receiving end of that kind of customer "unservice" I hit the like thumb icon for ya but this time I'll sign off with 2 thumbs down for EE! 👎👎
Whooooo buddy! Crow snapping Helinox poles and ripping jackets! I really appreciate your viewpoint and the courage it takes to put out a video like this. I can already see you’re getting some heat from the comments but they have no right to throw shade just because they don’t agree with you. We need unbiased opinions folks, not just sunshine and rainbows all the time. I’d be pissed too if the response I got from customer support was some boilerplate template they send out multiple times a day. This is premium equipment we are investing in and we want it to perform, not fail. UL gear is super delicate however and I think you are a little more rough on your gear just like Snackbox 😂 I’d prob recommended Decathlon as a replacement. Cheaper on the wallet makes it an easier pill to swallow when it inevitably wears out or fails. Appreciate ya!
Appreciate it Dave. Yeah, lots of burn pit there on this one. My first…not 100% positive video. Oh well, I kind of knew that if you’re honest and don’t stick to the script…there would be hate. But, some of the comments are fair. I just wanted to put this out there that the jacket is fragile and their customer service is a little less than personal…if that gets heat…it gets heat. I have thick skin. Well, I’m getting older and skin gets thinner with age…😂😂😂
Of course they have a right to throw shade because they don't agree with him. Ever heard of free speech? Not only that but when someone is acting like an entitled youknowwhat and trying to harm a company for something he is responsible for... shame on him, not the ones "throwing shade". If you are going to throw shade disingenuously you better expect it to come back to you.
@@santiagodraco you should be blocked
@@DaveOffGrid makes me want to channel my inner Jack Nicholson.
You are way too kind to companies! They make a jacket that is obviously very delicate. They know they will get complaints (even though they will sell a ton). They take the risk of losing customers but the sales seem to obviously outweigh the loss of customers. They are making a profit and have a terrible warranty. I'm sure others have had both good and bad experiences with them. My ONE AND ONLY experience was a quilt I purchased about 6 years ago that was absolutely terrible. I froze at 10 degrees above the rating. I've heard it was because they underfilled the down but have since fixed that. I also had an experience with them on a business level I was not impressed with. No money or product was exchanged but they way they wanted to use me to sell products was to work for free and I got essentially nothing in return.. that was all I needed to hear. I've never looked at them since.
Thanks Dan! Appreciate the comment on this one. I kind of knew I would get some negative comments on this one from people. But, in the end, I am being real about the experience I had. Some of this is on me…I should have thought this jacket was not durable enough for me. But, lesson learned. I just think companies have to stand behind what they make. UL or not…appreciate the support on this and thanks for sharing your experience as well. Crow✌️
If you watch the video, I admitted that this was on me. Not doing my research. That was the point of the video. I simply wanted the company that sold the jacket to repair it. When I did n tris video, I knew there would be differences of opinion. That is fine. But, there is no reason to be nasty about it. In the end, it is just a jacket. The point of the video is basically…don’t do what I did and do your research and recognize that UL gear is not that durable, so, buyer beware. Plus, there are companies that are a lot better with customer service. No need to attack Dan. Just give your opinion.
Hey Crow! Interesting topic, this popped up on my Facebook feed. I understand the frustration with putting a hole in a new piece of gear (I've done it myself) but I think everyone needs to check their expectations of gear companies. Even the ones that some don't consider "cottage" any longer like EE. If you bought an $80k vehicle from a dealership and accidentally bumped into another car on your way out of the lot would you expect the dealer to do anything? They would offer a touch-up kit for a cost or suggest a body shop to get the damage repaired if they couldn't do a repair in-house. I also know that EE doesn't offer repairs any longer which is why they recommended a patch kit or the 3rd party to get it fixed.
In this situation, you chose an ultralight jacket that offered different fabric options and chose to go with the 10D and not the 20D material which is much more durable. Then when it gets a hole due to normal use you have an issue with the company that made it. I just don't think that's fair, you made a choice and did something to create the hole. It's frustrating nonetheless but everyone needs to accept personal responsibility for their decisions. Now if the seams come apart or there's a manufacturing error when you receive it then you should absolutely hold the company liable but that's not the case here. EE could have put a more personal touch and not offered such a scripted answer but I do agree with their warranty. I think the title should have been "I made a mistake!"
You seem like a good dude Crow, I just don't think it's helpful to fan the entitlement flames. It's an epidemic these days.
Fair points and a great perspective. Well said. Yeah, I guess my main points for those watching is, do your research. This jacket just didn’t work for me…too fragile. Thanks for watching it. Crow✌️
Best explanation
This jacket is for people who understand how to handle UL equipment and realize that this type of equipment requires a level of care greater than heavier weight materials. My opinion is that this is one of those situations where you take responsibility for your actions, not blame the company, patch it and move on having learned a valuable lesson. Plus now you’ve got some awesome trail patina on your jacket and a story. Love your videos Crow.
Very fair points! I agree. I have moved on. I still use the jacket. Just wanted people to know not to make the same mistake I made. But, you’re right and that is fair. Thanks for watching it. Crow✌️
I've never had a very positive outlook on EE and your experience confirms the opinion I formed over 4 years ago.
It started when I was performing my exhaustive research on quilts for hammocks. One of the things I wanted was the ability to have a quilt overstuffed. EE didn't offer it. Then as I researched more, I would read various posts from different people in different forums about how their EE quilts didn't perform as expected. That was a red flag.
EE feels like a big company masquerading as a cottage company and I think your experience backs that up.
For the record, I did buy all of my quilts from a cottage manufacturer and I have never been let down by those quilts, even making it down to -2F and staying toasty warm.
Thanks so much for your comment. Excellent. Appreciate it very much. But, I am curious, Becuase I am looking for a good quilt company. Who do you use?
@@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING No joke. It took me about 6 months of research to make my selection. I looked at Loco Libre, UGQ, Warbonnet, Hammock Gear, and Jacks'R'Better.
I settled on Warbonnet under quilts and top quilts.
They offered the lightest hammock under quilt on the market with the ability to customize colors and add over stuff.
All of my quilts are 15D Ripstop to make sure they have hold up to rigorous use (I don't trust 10D ad the weight savings wasn't worth the possible issues) {knock on wood, no wear issues in 4 years}.
My 40F degree set has no over stuff and I've had them down to 38F degrees with no cold spots.
The 20F degree set have 1oz overstuff and have been excellent.
My 0F degree quilts have 3oz overstuff and the have been my stalwart defense against cold, going down to -2F degrees I was toasty warm in my hammock.
My top quilts match my UQ in makeup. I ordered mine wide with pad straps and I have gone to grown with them a few times with no issues. The extra width allows me to sleep on my side and not have any drafts.
@@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING one other thing I forgot to mention. I would always see EE quilts for sale on E-bay. That was a major red flag and caused me to dig deeper and then I found the people complaining about cold issues and the E-bay sales made much more sense.
I think this video is a good example of being sure your equipment is suitable for each hike. If you're hiking in the wide open spaces out west, yeah, go for the lightest item possible that will keep you safe. However, if you're going to be in the woods with a lot of brush, etc., perhaps a heavier denier is called for.
Well said! Yeah, you actually said it better than I did in the video. I didn’t do my research. I shouldn’t have bought this jacket because, the trips I do…I will probably rip it. When you get ultralight gear…it is a risk. Thanks for watching it. Great comment! ✌️
Thanks for sharing your experience, Crow! I have heard negative stuff about temp ratings from them (like Dan Becker’s experience in his comment), but it’s a shame they couldn’t even provide a little empathy, even if they weren’t willing to do a free repair. I don’t have any EE gear, and it sounds like I ought to keep it that way. I hope you’re able to get your hands one day something a bit more durable for those wet conditions!
Appreciate your input. Yeah, I leaned a lot of lessons from this experience. Most of all, I need to do more research before purchasing such expensive gear. All is good though. I patched it and will move on. Appreciate you watching it. Crow✌️
I love my Torrid jacket. I have been using it for a little over two years now. I do understand how fragile it is and that is often a point of concern for me. It definitely is made for ultralight hikers who hike on fairly open trails. I can’t imagine what it would look like if you were to fall into a big saw brier bush. Would not be much left. lol
I surveyed, in the woods, for about 25 years. None of the clothing the average hiker wears would have survived or protected them from the environment we were in. Carhartt jackets, 8” logger boots and heavy blue jeans and leather gloves, were a common choice of clothing on my crew. Even then our clothing took a beating. 🤔 Come to think of it, I really don’t want to carry an Arctic Carhartt coat or bushwhack my way through a seemingly impassable section of land ever again. lol
I understand your frustrations with the response to your inquiry. That definitely was not a good way to respond to a concern customer. I hope they will improve after seeing your video.
Thanks for posting this video. It’s good to see and hear others experiences and opinion.
That is a very thoughtful and excellent comment! Appreciate that. Yeah, my main point is to do your research…I didn’t do that well. Great jacket. Just not for me. I think they should include a patch kit with the jacket price. Otherwise, I have loved tiger quilts. I have two of them. Appreciate your comment and watching the video. Crow✌️
Customer service is everything. Some companies get it and some dont. Keep wearing the jacket. You have plenty of patch.
😂 Yeah, it will be fine. No problem. Thanks for watching it Jeffery. ✌️
You did a great job putting out your experience in this video. Not bashing just stating facts on your experience. At the very least I feel their customer service could have been more personable. Unfortunately a growing trend in this world especially as these cottage companies grow to well not really cottage any longer.
Very well said Crow. Just stated the facts. Thanks for sharing. 👍
Thanks my friend! Appreciate that. ✌️
Every customer is important, especially you. Your honesty is appreciated. Thanks Crow.
Appreciate it! I knew there would be some blow back from the video. But, I just wanted to be real about it. Thanks for always watching. Crow✌️
I had similar experience with Hammock Gear. Brand new DCF tarp with doors. 1st night using it, it got shredded by the wind.. shredded right off the ridge line.. into pieces. Totally un repairable and unusable. Having 2 other DCF tarps from them, plus multiple down quilts and under quilts, I emailed them explaining what happened and sent pictures and video. Being a loyal return customer.. I was not expecting a full refund or a new tarp.. but i was hoping for a replacement maybe 50% off. Absolutely nothing. They said sorry.. and offered 20% off a new one.. which.. thanks.. but they were having a 20% sale the following week or so anyway.. hence I decided to ditch the expensive dcf tarps and now only use Silpoly. Packs much smaller, costs WAAAAAY less money and does the job exactly the same!
Crow thanks for letting me know 👍
I purchased a Montane synthetic jacket in 2022 and during a trip to the city, the right lower sleeve had a cigarette burn along with an area above the pocket.
I had the jacket less than 6 weeks and the burn holes with either malicious or accidental? So I knew Montane has a repair department and a standard repair cost of £30 for replacing panels. Within several days the jacket was returned as good as knew with no signs of repair. How they did it is still a mystery to me.
Great customer service 👌atb Taff 🤠👊
That is great information! I will look at that company. Now, that is customer service. ✌️
I think you are correct to post your thoughts. That’s what you do. Some are going to agree, others won’t. Don’t let it bother you.
Customer service is poor everywhere in general. I typically value a product at least 50% on service. I tend to become a solid fan when I experience good customer service. Those companies tend to earn my lifelong support while the others lose it. This gear is expensive and there should be a reasonable amount of durability associated with its intended purpose. IMO the obsession with lighter and lighter is sacrificing durability while the costs seem to go up.
Thanks so much for your comment. This is probably my first controversial video with something that is a bit negative. I expected people to have negative comments. And I get it. I had some reservations making the video. But, my overall point is…be careful buying UL gear. Some of it is not as durable as you think it is. This is on me….i should have done better research. But, I did want to share this. Appreciate it very much that you watched it. Crow✌️
I watched a review of the Torrid (Darwin maybe?) & figured it's too delicate for me. Since watching the video I have purchased an Enlightened synthetic quit & it's great but the fabric confirmed my thoughts about the jacket. I eventually bought a synthetic puffy from Decathlon for about $65, about 1/3 the price of the Torrid & I'm so happy with it. It's not an elite ultralite piece of equipment but to me it's superior, cheaper & more practical & I'm really glad I bought it 👍
The synthetic puffy made by Decathlon is a great jacket for that price. It's my go to for backpacking over my down ones.
That’s my problem with some ultralight gear. More money for less product.
It’s called, “roughing it” for a reason.
So true! Yeah, most of this is on me. It is a good lesson for me and others getting into UL gear. I think it promoted a fair discussion. I took some heat on it, which is fair…ultimately though, I am a big believer in customer service. I will buy more quilts and gear. Just not from EE. That is the beauty of a free market. Appreciate your comment. Well said. Crow✌️
There are certain brands that I won’t buy their gear because they use fabrics that are not tough enough for what I’ll put them through. Some of these cottage gear companies are charging outrageous prices that make Arcteryx look cheap in price. It’s disappointing to get gear you are excited to try, only to find it’s a POS and you could have spent half the money on something else. I hope these guys step up and make this right. You’ve got a massive following, not the publicity a small company like that needs. Hope you are well my friend!
Hi Crow. Interesting video. I’m curious what alternative you consider “more durable”. The Mountain Hardware Ghost Whiperer comes in a 10d ripstop nylon outer as well. The decathlon is about 15D. You can get a 20d material on the torrid.
I melted my torrid one night by the camp fire. I got the patch kit and moved on. It still holding up today and that was probably 5 years ago.
Anyways, take care. I hope you can find the jacket you are looking for.
That’s good to hear. Ultimate, I just think they should include a patch kit with the purchase, like all the sleeping pad companies do. My main point with this video is…do your research. I am glad there was a healthy discussion about it. I have had the Decathalon jacket for a while, it has held up with a lot of wear on it. I should have just stayed with it. Appreciate you watching it. Crow✌️
@@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING I’ve yet to see any company selling jackets do this. Interesting concept. Take care.
Sorry to hear about your experience. I bet they get tons of complaints about your exact issue and just can't deal with it all. Also... nice sticker collection!
I appreciate you doing this video, and with some of the people who are commenting here, I won’t never purchase from this company. I have stuck with UGQ and they have been great, but good to know how this company operates.
Thanks for watching it. Yeah, I wasn’t happy with their response. Hope they figure out their customer service.
damn, that's crazy I love my torrid just goes to show everyone can have a different exp. Mine lasted an entire thru hike definitely got some snags, but just patched em up.
It’s a good jacket. I must have just gotten hooked on something. Not sure. Just wanted to put it out there…kinda of fragile. Appreciate ya! It’s all good. ✌️
no I think your video is valid don't get me wrong. I think everyone has different exps with companies too. I know a ton of people who hate zpacks but they have never done me wrong and their customer support is great. granted I guess you just never know. it doesnt seem to be consistent @@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING
I bought an EE quilt 10 years ago and about 4 years later I washed and dried it according to their instructions. Some of the down migrated out of the lower baffles into other chambers and I couldn't fix it. I comtacted EE and they fixed it for the cost of one way shipping. They even added some more down! I am sad to hear that you had a bummer experience. Perhaps they have just gotten too big now. 😕
That is my assessment. They are too big now to care. It’s okay, there are plenty of quilt makers out there.
Crow thanks for your honest assessment of the jacket. I’m with ya totally understand UL gear is fragile but I agree maybe they could be personable enough to actually reply to you in person instead of just copying & pasting their warranty.
Yeah, I thought so as well. I mean, you pay a lot of money for this stuff. I just felt they could have been a little nicer. Oh well, it’s all good. I bought a patch kit and will move on. Lesson learned. Thanks for watching it. Crow✌️
I’ve seen a lot of videos about that jacket and the general consensus was while it is warm it should only be worn at camp or a durable layer worn over it, the same thing popped up about how fragile the outer layer is.
Thanks for your comment Mike. Ultimately, that is the point of this video. I learned a valuable lesson. Most of this is on me. I just thought they should include a patch kit in the price of the jacket. It will rip. Appreciate it. Crow✌️
sorry this happened to you. they should have done the right thing and helped repair the jacket. I recently bought the enlightening equipment convert. I will definitely make sure to keep this in mind if something happens to my quilt. thank you for sharing this information
I'm sure it was tough to put this out because I know the kind of guy you are. This will be helpful for others considering this jacket.
Yeah, I am not a controversial kind of creator. Every other video I have done is strictly vanilla content. But, this was fun and it created a good discussion. Ultimately, my purpose was to give awareness of the fragile jacket and what you are getting. Thanks for always watching and commenting on my videos. Crow✌️
That's rough with the costumer handling there. I had a bike crash where a tore some minor shreds in my Patagonia Micro Puff jacket and Patagonia costumer service wrote me they are sorry for my crash and they hope I am alright. They told me I could get it repaired at a nearby tailor and send them the receipt and they would cover a repair costing up to 30£.
Now that is customer service. That’s what I line to see. Thanks for the comment. Crow✌️
I've had my Torrid for a couple of years now and really like the performance in cold weather, but, have always been fearful about wearing it anywhere except around camp. The 10D seems very fragile. Wished I'd ordered the 20D version instead so I could wear it more places. So I ordered a Outdoor Vitals Vario Hoody, 20D, for around town wear. Much more robust jacket and still pretty lightweight. May use it as my mid layer on really cold trips as it fits nicely under the Torrid. Enjoy your videos.
Appreciate the comment! Well said. Yeah, I wish I had seen the 20d version as well. Great lesson learned. Your comment is good information to those who are considering this jacket. Thanks so much for watching the video. I appreciate it very much. Crow✌️
great insight, ee has had other problems with product description and customer service. goose/duck down, fiasco....good on you for taking the responsibility of a consumer, with that said, though they really need to think twice on a repair service, at their stage in the game and volume every other company does this. by the way when researching synthetic jackets also research does synthetic insulation really keep you warm when wet. You'll be surprised how many times you'll see "as long as the face material does not wet out"
Great points! Yeah, I was disappointed…oh well, live and learn. My main point was really…be careful when you buy UL stuff. I should have done more research on it. Appreciate ya! Crow✌️
I have the EE Torrid, I like it, but yeah it's delicate. I really think that the exterior fabric should be 20d as the standard.
I can see both sides as to whether they should have repaired it, truthfully I think a patch or Tenacious Tape is a better fix than sewing it, but the way that they communicated that with you is unsat IMO.
I personally prefer a grid fleece hoodie and a rain jacket. The fleece is better than a puffy as an active layer, and around camp it pairs well with a rain jacket to increase the warmth a bit
Great comment! I’m glad you see both sides on this. I actually do as well. But, I wanted to give my opinion. I actually took ownership of it and basically said, I should have done more research. The point is…people should do their research before buying UL gear. I like the jacket. I put the patch on and will use it…just a battle scar. 😂✌️
I wore that jacket for 185 days on the AT and had no issues with tears. As a matter of fact I have worn that jacket on several trails in Europe and Africa without any failures. With that said the customer service experience you received was not the best and EE should learn from this experience and do a better job in the future. Happy Hiking
Hey there!
I used to run the CS department at Enlightened. I am disappointed to hear that they gave you such a non-empathetic response.
Ultimately I agree with their policy, for UL backpacking gear, I always buy with the understanding that the payoff of weight savings is a particular level of fragility.
I the case of a jacket that’s SUL fabric like this, I likely would have emailed simply asking if they had a suggestion on a good patch, which ultimately would lead me to a challenge patch like the sheet you shown.
So ultimately, their gear is good, their repair offered is sufficient, and their CS is lacking the human touch.
I do really love it when companies go above and beyond though.
Excellent point! I knew when I did this video there would be some blow back. And I think it is justified. I probably didn’t do a good job with my point. But, EE makes good products. My only real dissatisfaction was the response. All I wanted for was EE to fix it, not another jacket. Plus, I wanted people to know that I kind of recommended this jacket in my 2024 new gear video…I shouldn’t have done that without working with the gear for a while. And, a lot of this is on me…I should have seen this jacket was too fragile for what I do. Appreciate you excellent comment! Great points. Appreciate you taking the time to watch it. Crow✌️
@@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING thanks Man! I hate being excited for new gear and having it get messed up immediately. Fortunately I have avoided the ember hitting my jacket or camp chair so far! All my friends, not so much.
Nice! Yeah, those embers are the death of many jackets and UL chairs…😂✌️
Crow, did you look at the OV Vario Jacket when deciding? I got the Torrid and might be having a little buyer's remorse....I knew the Torrid was fragile, but just saw a friend's Vario, and it's comparable in price, weight, insulation (as far as I can tell), and just feels more durable. And, it kept me just as warm when I tried it.
Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll definitely check that out. I don’t have any OV stuff, but, need to try them out. Appreciate you watching it. Crow✌️
@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING absolutely, love your stuff. A lot of Outdoor Vitals clothing is pretty trim fit, and I've eaten too much southern food lately. But the Vario Jacket fit nicely.
😂😂😂
Crow i hate this happened to you! Ive got the same jacket and it is very delicate. I have questioned the durability. I also had lackluster customer services with EE. It took me over 5 months to get my jacket. Every email was answered basically the same... "its on the way." Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope your path holds up and you're able to get every penny you spent on it out of it!
STU
Appreciate it Stu! Yeah, it is unfortunate…but, life goes on. Not that big of a deal really. Appreciate the support my friend. ✌️
I think we all get sucked into ultralight so much that we forget that we are literally using the equivalent of a ziplock baggie to protect our insulation. No way it was ever intended to be durable. Super lightweight and sort of warm in a February drizzle. But any sort of backcountry brush, it’s compromised. I buy expensive equipment, very guilty of that. But I also know that as soon as I brush it against anything, it’s my fault and nobody else’s. “I’m done with EE” is very extreme. I’d rather say I’m done with taking tissue paper as my protection in the rugged backcountry. My layers are still very expensive but tried and true.. my nano puffs have been scraped, thrown, ember burned, briar nicked, rough housed in every weather, and never once have I complained that my very expensive $250 jacket has battle scars. It was built to handle that at the expense of a few ounces. Honestly crow it’s a mental thing - sacrifice a handful of ounces for peace of mind in protecting yourself, and not your feelings or status for an expensive tissue paper jacket. That fragile material is for inside the tent, ie sleep
systems, not rugged backcountry protection. But i know you know that. As for asking for a repair, any company in the country would stand by workmanship, but not accidental damage.. day 1 or 100, unless they offered a protection plan.
Side note - this past Fall I road tripped out west to Colorado and Utah. Trip of a lifetime! I slept in back of my suv at times, on my brand new thermarest winter pad. Silly me kept it inflated in the car, after sleeping in Kansas overnight. Next day I’m driving thru the Rockies past Denver.. I hear a POP.. POP.. POP.. I was like wth was that? Pulled over later and say the pad ballooned up from air pressure in the altitude… brand new $250 pad destroyed.. i was pissed but it was my fault. I tossed it in a dumpster in Utah. I could have tried the “return/repair” game but I knew I F’d up. Ah well. Good thing I brought my multi-patched Nemo tensor as backup. :)
Excellent comment. Yeah, that is fair…I took the risk and was not happy with the result. Once is received the jacket…I really should have know what I was getting into. I own that and most of this was on me. My only issue was the customer service and lack of personal touch. In the end, I think they should at the least provide a patch kit with this jacket…it will rip. But, I own a lot of this and fully recognize it. UL is like you said…a Ziploc bag of durability. It just sucks to pay this amount of money and have no durability. In the end, the discussion I see in the comments is exactly what I hoped to accomplish. People should be aware of what they are getting into. I learned a valuable lesson in this and will use it going forward. Appreciate ya! Crow✌️
To add to this, EE markets their products to the hiking community. That being said, as a hiker, one would presume that under normal usage that it would not rip straight away. So yes, anyone should hold them accountable that their gear would be able to handle normal usage for what the product is marketed by & for....
Thanks my friend. I agree. In the end, I think they should at least provide with the purchase a patch kit. I mean, all the sleeping pad companies give you one. Thanks for always watching the videos my friend. Crow✌️
Part of the deal when you start getting down to 7-10 d fabrics. You trade durability for weight. That being said I feel in the interest of keeping a happy customer and the tear being so small they should have fixed it. Builds trust and gets the customer to hopefully keep them in mind when they are looking for other options within EE’s portfolio.
Sorry this happened. I have 4 EE quilts and they’ve all served me well. That being said, it really concerns me that EE’s customer service responded to you in such a blanketed, impersonal manner. These UL jackets are fragile. I have a Ghost Whisperer puffy that had a seam come apart on the sleeve before it ever made it to the trail. Thanks for sharing your experience.✌️
Appreciate it! Yeah, I have had a similar experience with the quilts. They have served me well. I guess my overall thought on this is…exactly what you said…be careful when you buy UL gear. It is not as durable as other gear. Appreciate ya! ✌️
I'm not going to EE again. Paid HUNDREDS for a -15 bag I can't use. Now, I did not contact CS since I ordered a custom color. They specify that it cannot be returned if it is a customer order, however I followed THEIR chart sizing when ordering a short bag. Supposedly due to my height, I should have had much extra material. What they did not mention at all (and I should have figured it out) if you are a female with hips, that pulls down on the top of a short bag and makes it shorter. And you can imagine that since I bought a -15, it was for COLD weather and now I have a useless bag that only goes across my chest. I feel that the sizing info was bad and bare minimum and I would not have wasted so much money, but would have purchased a more suitable size and the path of least resistence not been the employed tactic for sizing information.
Dang! That hurts. Sorry this happened to you. I have really liked the two quilts I have from them. But, I was not happy with the customer service. Oh well, we live and learn. Crow✌️
This is one of the pieces of gear I'm still considering purchasing, and other jackets and pants like it, for not hiking, but sitting around camp and in particular, waiting for trains to roll by in remote areas as I film them. I freeze my butt off when waiting hours for the next train out in the boonies, where it's much more scenic, yet I'm not actually walking around to keep me warm. Currently, I have to jog in place and do squats, stuff like that. I'm talking about during the autumn with highs in the ~50s and lows in the 20s to 30s. This piece of fragile equipment would probably keep me warmer, but I sure wouldn't hike in it due to its cheap exterior.
Buy the Decathlon synthetic jacket instead. It's about $70, it's super warm, & a lot less delicate. I love mine
@@TOMinPDX It's that warm, for hours in very cool autumn conditions doing basically no activity except waiting?
Great comment! Appreciate your thoughts on this. After reading a lot of comments, maybe consider the 20d fabric, instead of the 10d. I didnt know that was an option. But, also consider the customer service, which in my experience was not good. Crow✌️
I agree. I have the Decathalon and think it is a much better jacket….especially for the price. Crow✌️
@@maxe_faxe Well there's other variables to consider such as base layers but I've never had a jacket that keeps me as warm as the Decathlon. If you want to spend $200 on a jacket because it's slightly lighter in weight go for it, but I would recommend looking at the Decathlon before making your decision. You can get three Decathlons for the price of one Torrid
I've had a few people tell me about the substandard EE customer service. I've heard a few other negative things about the company but I haven't been able to confirm anywhere, so I won't post what they are. Regardless, I'm sorry to hear about your experience and thank you for letting the rest of us know the facts.
After lots of thought, I decided for myself that I would go with the cheap frogtoggs. I use it around the fire to protect my puffy and if I tear it up in the brush or get it filthy dirty, Im not too upset. Im even more reckless while hiking knowing my jacket is fairly cheap. When im wearing the expensive jackets i find myself being waaaaay more cautious and in turn gives me anxiety haha! Thats probably a me problem though lmao great video Crow! Customer service means everything to me! So its always sad to hear when the customer service doesnt match a great product.
Excellent comment Zak. Well said. Yeah, that is the way I feel with some of this expensive gear. Lesson learned by me on this one. I did buy two pages worth of patches from EE…I think they will probably come in handy. It is like getting a new car…after the first scratch, you do t worry about it as much. 😂✌️
Fair video. It seems like since covid companies have decided to charge as much as possible and don't give a damn about customers. I have become very jaded when dealing with companies. I think they deserve zero slack because of their attitude and tone, even when they are right about something. People can be nice, but I suppose they think they don't have to be these days. I looked at that jacket at Quest Outdoors in Louisville, KY and it's the most flimsy, delicate thing in the world. The Ghost Whisperer is stupid expensive, but much tougher. You can get the Ghost Whisperer on sale if you are patient for about half price. That make it better and cheaper than the EE jacket.
Great comment. I agree, since Covid, some companies have really decided that customer service is not a priority. But, it will be their downfall. Thanks
For watching the video. Appreciate it. Crow✌️
My jacket ripped too. I try to only wear mine at camp or a layer over it.
Yeah…I should have realized that. Some of this is on me. Going forward, I will only wear it sitting around the campfire and watch for those embers. 😂✌️ Thanks for watching it Tim! Hope all is well. Crow
@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING all IS well bud! Hope the same for you!
@@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING all of it is on your. At least own it and stop trying to throw EE under the bus for what you should have known.
On “you” not “your”
@@santiagodraco Crow is one of the nicest humans I've ever met. Just sayin...no need for rudeness.
I have jackets and equipment that are very delicate also. I am very careful with them as I am with all my gear and it lasts a very long time. But I also have friends that use a lot of the same gear and destroy it very quickly.
I’m not actually knocking on you. But if you’re the kind of person that’s hard on gear, then really delicate fabrics are probably not for you.
I actually love your videos. You’re one of the few that dare to show there religious values. But you’re not preachy about it. Keep it up.😊
Appreciate your thoughts on this. I totally agree. Yeah, I’m not really knocking EE, they were just a little less than personal. But, they make good stuff. I should have seen this jacket was too fragile for me. Thanks for your comments on my faith. Yeah, I don’t want to preach. Everyone has their own faith or not. Just sharing a bit of my own. Appreciate ya! ✌️
I’d considered it - but I really got scared off by the fragile-ness of it. I’m very rough on gear - going over/under trees, scrubbing along rocky faces, and overgrown trails. It’d be fine as a camp jacket - but not one I’d use on the trail. I’ll stick with my alpha fleece/photon jacket combo. Sorry that it ripped so easily and that their customer service wasn’t as expected. Unfortunately I’ve had my own issues with a different brand who didn’t stand behind their product and instead blamed me! Some companies just don’t have the best service- they just want to take the money and run!
Thanks RoseLee. Yeah, a lot of this is on me. I should have seen exactly what you said in your comment. This jacket is not one to wear on the trail. It is one to sit at camp with. I should have seen that. Their response was fine…just not very personal. I get it, they are in the business of making money. Ultimately, I think they should at the very least send a patch kit with the jacket…like sleeping pads companies do. Oh well, live and learn. Crow✌️
It’s totally A ok to dis Any company out there that over prices their shit and doesn’t take care of you if something happens
Good point! 😂✌️
I had a negative experience with the customer service at another BIG backpacking gear company. Like you, I’m not selling the gear because it’s good gear but I’ve bought my last piece of gear from them.
Also, they have the interpersonal skills of a wounded badger. 😂🦑
Wounded badger…I wish I had said that…😂😂😂
Wounded badger! I wish I had said that…😂😂😂
Wounded Badger sounds like a trail name
@@stevewright2241😂🤣
Thanks for the info, Brad. That shady warranty verbiage gives them the ability to categorically deny any failure of their products. I get that you have to do your research for the hiking environment you’ll be in when selecting gear, but if you’re (EE) charging an exorbitant amount of money for gear marketed for the outdoors, you dont expect to have to hike in a bubble to keep it from failing, particularly for an outer layer. I dont think asking for a reasonably priced repair from the manufacturer is cause for outrage. A couple of gratis patches would have at least shown some effort. This is why I wont jump on the alpha direct bandwagon-too much risk for the cost. But its more about their flip, rubber stamp attitude towards resolving the issue that speaks volumes about their management. Its not like you were trying to scam free product out of them, just asking them to meet you halfway in resolving the issue and standing behind their product. There are too many other choices out there for them to get my money.
Thanks so much. You actually said it better than what I tried to say. 😂 Yeah, I just feel like if we are spending this kind of money, they should at least help you getting it fixed. I appreciate your comments and thoughts on this. I knew when I put this out there…unlike any video I have ever done, that people would bring the heat, and they didn’t disappoint 😂. No worries, I have thick skin. Just my opinion. I know that I am just one voice on this. Everyone has to find their on way in the backpacking gear journey. Thanks for supporting the channel. Crow✌️
I took the Torrid jacket with me on the A.T. last year and it survived without damage. I only wore it in camp/town and always kept it in a dyneema stuff sack in my pack the rest of the time. Your experience with CS is frustrating and disappointing. Companies like EE who rely on sales from within the hiking community would do well to listen to your comments. Makes me think about the stickers they include with purchase and how EE portrays this chill image. Let's hope it was just one grump over there in CS and not a total epidemic.
Great comment. Yeah, some of this is on me. I really should have just worn this at camp and not on trail. I wasn’t rough with it. But, somehow it ripped. I just think it is too fragile with the 10 D material. Oh well, live and learn. I was disappointed with their customer service. Maybe just offering a free patch kit would have been good for me. Crow✌️
I’m sorry this happened to you on the first use. I have been wearing the Torrid for a couple years, even while actively hiking and I’ve never had any damage. I even wear it in my day to day life. Not even a scratch! This is the risk you take with a jacket that weighs 7oz. It’s not made of steel. Not sure how you got the tear, but this is no fault of the company that you made a simple mistake. If they repaired every bit of damage a customer sustained on their gear, they wouldn’t have time to make new gear to sell. I got a scratch on my car. That doesn’t make it the maker’s fault! Sorry if I’m sounding a little Fierce. It’s just my nature! 😜 Hike on!
Fair point! And ultimately that is what I am trying to say with this video. That and…maybe EE could be a little more personal with their customer service. But, I hear ya, I own a lot of this in buying a 7 ounce jacket. That is what I said in the video. Appreciate the great input on this. Crow✌️
That sucks about the canned response. Hopefully companies can do better on that part.
I agree Rod. I mean, their ultimate decision is theirs to make. Just wish it had been little more personal. Appreciate ya! Crow✌️
Have two EE quilts and no issues except I wouldn’t push the temp ratings. Have seen these same jackets rip in light conditions. With each patch you will look more like a trail hobo. Badge of honor I guess.
Appreciate it Metro. A lot of the people that have been triggered by the video don’t see the point of this…when you buy UL gear, this can happens. So, buyer beware. Thanks for watching it my friend. Crow✌️
I hope there’s a reckoning in the cottage industry. Prices are too high and gear is too fragile. I see a seismic shift coming…
Yeah, when you pay so much for these products…I kind of expect they will at least repair it for you…✌️. Thanks for watching it my friend. Crow✌️
Hey Crow! Although the response they gave you was certainly disappointing, I think you may have just had a fluke on the first trip. My Torrid jacket has hundreds of miles on it and still looks brand new. It does need to be treated with a little care but its definitely a proven product based on a lot of experience from other hikers. I believe Darwin has thousands of miles on a torrid jacket with no serious issues, and his was made of the thinner 7D material. I don't say that to mean that your concerns are unwarranted. I only mean to offer some optimism that the rest of your experience with the jacket should likely be better. I do consider the Torrid jacket to be an excellent value. Its warmer than the Mountain Hardware Ghost Whisperer while being very similar in weight while costing a lot less.
As a ultralight cottage company, warranty policies are difficult to craft especially for items made with the very thin materials like quilts and jackets. We aren't masss producing gear overseas. That said, a more personalized response and some assistance with a patch would have been nice to see.
Excellent points and a great perspective from a cottage company. Appreciate this very much. My only real complaint was the lack of personal response. Didn’t want a new jacket…just for them to repair it. But, this patch works great. It is more durable than the fabric. Ultimately, I just wanted people to understand how fragile this jacket can be. That is on me…I should have seen that. EE makes good stuff. Just not that happy with their response. Appreciate ya! Crow✌️
Ultralight equipment is kind of fragile that’s why nosopatches has a company selling just patches. It sucks that happened but it is a 10d jacket at the end of the day.
Well said! Funny, I found out about NoSo after I bought the EE patch kit. Wish I had found them before I paid EE more money.😂✌️
Hahaha you said, "I'm not a big UA-camr" and Mister paused the video and went down and checked your subscriber count and turned to me and said in a "tone"... "I'm not a big UA-camr!" Well Crow... you are to some of us!! 🙂 Ya I bet that was a tough video to make. I noticed alot of jump cuts where you were probably trying to figure out just how to say stuff! Fair video though! I think it comes off well. They seems like a bigger company... which is probably the problem!
You hit the nail on the head…lots of jump cuts…not sure what to say. Not trying to trash the company. I love the two quilts I have. I just wanted people to know that I made a mistake when I did the 2024 video about new gear…like I may have recommended the jacket without really thinking through it. The jacket really isn’t an outer layer…not durable enough. Appreciate you watching it Mark. You guys are awesome. Crow✌️
Good information to help someone make an informed decision. What I love about UA-cam Review Videos. They come from regular people out there trying to get the most out of their hard earned money.
Makes me nervous when I make initial impression videos. Initially, a product may appear to be flawless - but time always reveals the imperfections. I wish you could go back and amend a previously posted video if need be.
I hear ya! Yeah, I shouldn’t have jumped the gun on that gear video for 2024 Becuase I kind of gave the impression that it was something I was recommending. I learned a valuable lesson on this one. Appreciate you watching it my friend! ✌️
Some of these fabrics are really not suitable for outerwear. They are banking on people chasing the almighty gram. Ive been using a synthetic puffy for 15 years and it has zero tears. Yes it is heavier. My Patagonia micro puff only got holes in it when Ruby jumped up with her puppy teeth and grabbed my arm...It's doing ok otherwise but I still think the fabric is a bit heavier. At the very least they could've sent you some patches. It is disappointing and I probably won't be replacing my 15 year old 1/2 zip puffy with a torrid jacket. I hope the jacket got that rip out of its system...
“I hope that jacket got the rip
out of it’s system” 😂😂😂✌️ Thanks Melissa. Great comment. Crow✌️
I had a negative experience with EE back when they were updating fill weights for their quilts. Mine was made pre-update by like 2 weeks and I asked if they would correct to new update fill weight standard after getting it, but the response I got was basically nope. I used the quilt for a bit until I could save to purchase a new one from different company. I wont use EE products again ever.
I have heard a lot of issues like this since posting the video. Sorry that happened to you. It really is all about customer service to me. All the companies I have dealt with in the backpacking niche have much better service than I experienced with EE. It is a lessoned for me. Best of luck my friend. Crow✌️
What is wrong with you people. That's another YOU problem.
Yeah, Franklin, you are correct. We have no right to have an opinion on this or anything else. Please write down your thoughts on all the issues inn the world so we can agree with you . 😂✌️
@@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING finally you making sense
😂✌️
At the end of the day, regardless of who may or not be at fault...there is quality customer service and there is not. EE could have handled the situation differently, even w/the same result and how Crow feels about the jacket and company could be quite different (I'll defer to Crow on this). Many of us absolutely HATE reaching out to 'customer service' (which needs to have a new name, as that is oft-times wholly inaccurate) so when we do, we hope for a good experience. That did not happen. Presentation and communication are key to keeping customers, even when you can't give them what they want. EE failed....big time.
Great comment! You actually said it better than I did. I think these companies can reach the same results with customers with a little empathy. I do think they should include a patch kit with the jacket. That would be great. Thanks for your support my friend. Crow✌️
Things tear especially when it's light weight. Put tape on it and suck it up.
😂😂😂 I agree. Ultimately that is what I did. Thanks for watching it. Crow✌️
For what they charge for their products, they should be more willing to stand behind those products....Your result speaks to the culture of the company, and the people that run that company. If a company won't stand behind their products...why should I buy them ?
I agree! Yeah, super expensive jacket…it really isn’t durable. But, really, I just want people to know that it isn’t really durable. I was hoping they would fix the jacket, since they made it. The patch is ok. Just disappointed. Thanks for watching it. Crow✌️
Bad experiences suck. At least it's patched and you can continue to use it.... Gently.
Yeah, no worries. I figured I would need a patch sooner than later…just not this early. Appreciate you watching it. Crow✌️
It doesn’t seem like the product is able to withstand “normal use” with its “intended use”. I feel a pull back coming around on the UL world.
Nathan, I tend to agree. I got caught up in it…but, I guess I should have seen that they don’t hold up like normal gear. That is on me. I just wanted people to hear my experience and make informed purchases. Appreciate your input on this. Crow✌️
I think you did a great job on the review! Simple and to the point and you owned up to your lessons learned! I think ill be sticking with the just “L” but durable equipment! 😂
Thanks Nathan! Yeah, I think I will too
They just drop ship. They just happen to have designed the product. They couldn't perform the repair if their business was in the line.
I agree. I wanted them to repair it. I certainly would have paid for the repair. Or at least they could give me a patch kit. Instead they made me pay for a patch kit. Oh well, just not a company I will be purchasing from going forward. I still like the two quilts I have from them though. ✌️
I am not familiar with your videos but this popped up in my feed as I do have an EE quilt. It baffles me that as someone with a dedicated channel to hiking and whatnot, is that you didn't realize this jacket would have this issue. Was this your first time with EE or this being exposed to this material? If so, I completely understand. If not, quickly reviewing the material to understand it, you should be aware it should not be used as an exterior protective layer.
Their CS, to me, did their job: patch or stitch it up. I don't work for them, but I imagine they have a significant amount of people making your same mistake and wanting free replacements or repairs. The warranty is also very clear, which is the 2nd paragraph, the one below what you circled. Normal wear and tear. Had it been a seam or defect, I expect they would resolve adequately.
Great comment. Yeah, your point is precisely where I messed up. I assumed I could use this as an outer layer. I do take issue with their warranty. “At our discretion” is no warranty at all, in my opinion. But, I agree, they can’t replace everything. I was just disappointed in the product and wanted people to know, basically what you are saying…it isn’t really good for an outer layer. No issues with EE in total. They make good quilts. But, can’t really support them after their lack of a personal response. Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment and watching the video. Crow✌️
That’s sucks man. Customer service has truly gone down hill and like you said their warranty is odd. I would accept something like “no free repairs” over that. It truly seems to say “if we think it will hurt the brand we will help…. If not sorry”
Yeah, I agree…”In our discretion” is not really a warranty at all…oh well…I learned a valuable lesson. Crow✌️
I have an enlightened equipment under quilt. Straight trash. I hate it. Never bought anything from them again.
I have gotten a lot of comments like this Jason. Appreciate you watching it. ✌️
I see no response from Enlightened! Maybe they don’t watch reviews as yours?
No, I wouldn’t expect them to watch it. This video was only to help people when choosing ultralight gear to know that it can be fragile. Also, to be aware of the warranty, which basically says…”it is in our discretion” so, EE can do what they want and either help with a patch kit or not.. Nothing wrong with that, just be aware of it. I have nothing against EE. They make good products. The people who have hated on this video didn’t watch it. They just saw the thumbnail and decided to troll. Thanks for watching it. Crow✌️
@@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING , they will sooner or later. Not a troll here! I just want to know about products. Be blessed young man 😊
Appreciate ya! No, I know you watch the videos. Seriously though, I probably shouldn’t have done the thumbnail I did. It took away from the point of the video. Live and learn. Thanks for always watching my friend. ✌️
@@ASTHECROWFLIESHIKING , I know you’re a Southern Boy but where from?
Bama. ✌️
I think you should buy your jackets from Costco…
Probably a good idea 👍🏻
Aggravating...
Yeah…it sucked. I learned a valuable lesson about ultralight gear. More research. Crow✌️
Man, that really sucks Crow. Nothing worst than being on the receiving end of that kind of customer "unservice"
I hit the like thumb icon for ya but this time I'll sign off with 2 thumbs down for EE!
👎👎
Thanks for watching it! Yeah, I was disappointed. My main point was that the jacket is simply not durable. I can’t recommend it. Crow✌️