If that guy calls again, decline to discuss the issue with him, but tell him to send you any communications via HIS lawyer, so you have it on record for the upcoming court case. This will also ensure that he is incurring costs.
@@ataxpayer723 Exactly. Make no comment or any further comments as this is going to court. Here's a story...at Walmart USA a white female customer was going mad (unsure why) & there's a white female employee/manager communicating with her in a good & professional way....until a "I will sue you" was mentioned by the customer. The manager realised what was going on & straight away said "No comment" to all of her questions. It will harm her/Walmarts defence. That's why being accused by a law enforcement/old bill it's best to remain silent asap.....police will stitch you up to make an easy/easier conviction....always remember that! Police can do you for talking to them then remaining silent! You wanna remain silent as soon as an allegation/accusation is made as it will turn against you!
Without wishing to give legal advice, I was involved in a lot of county court disputes and we were told once a summons has been issued NOT to talk direct to the client, it could prejudice your case. But the fact he rang you trying to do a deal is significant, and possibly prejudices his...
@@keithgreen9009I was thinking that as well but I am certain that anything said on recording without knowledge of being recorded is inadmissible and his lawyer would face sanctions for doing something stupid. Aside from that, I don’t think anything Lee would have relayed would give them the “edge” they are looking for.
I believe only one party needs to be aware as classed as ethical call recording used for a legitmate purpose - was also thinking the same, you can though also record calls for private use without other parties consent @@andrewwasson6153
I would of told him anything you have to say to me tell your solicitor to put it in writing and send it to my solicitor.. Anyone who gets the government involved for something so petty doesn’t deserve your time of day
That case will go to preliminary hearing and the judge will say you have no case to answer and kick it out. He has ZERO legal ground to take you to court. He's not your customer
As a business owner you HAVE to draw the line in the sand. If you don't then you will get a reputation as being someone who simply folds when threatened with legal action. And if you get that reputation then every dickhead and their cousin will have a go at you. Conversely, if you get the reputation of being hard BUT FAIR then you will attract a better class of client. Especially if you are doing top class work.
Sounds like his solicitor has told him he's not likely to win this case so he's got on the phone to try and befriend you just the way he's said about a reasonable offer.
I doubt a solicitor would tell him that, not once it's headed for court. Though often cases are sent for mediation first to see if the parties can come to an agreement.
Sounds to me that the chap is getting cold feet, things he will lose but is trying to save his pride - and trying you on for a few quid! Surely this will end up going through mediation and you’ll probably be persuaded to compromise - I had a very similar experience recently 😂
Stay logical. Stay pleasant. And stay firm. If you lay it out just as you did for us, you have your best shot. From there, it's up to the judge/majestrate. Good luck.
A daft question but why does cam offset vary between two and four wheel drive ?Also ref.the MG lump why did no one change the PCV diaphram knowing it was split in the first place?
I would go to court and do a counter claim for your HR rate and solicitor costs for being at court because he should be claiming from the garage that did the job for him and I would let him know
Courts like facts. The judge will not understand the technicals, unless it can be explained very simply. Who was to blame and why. Judgement is made ' on balance of probabilities' so if supplier A did not do what they were supposed to, that must be stated. Your role must be explained along with the reason you should not have to pay anything. All the best. PS I used to 'lap in' piston rings loooong ago
Yup, keep it simple. You don't have any contract with this person. They are not your customer. But Judges will get annoyed with piles of facts and overbearing legal reps for a small case.
SUGGESTION. To help the court, you draw a diagram that shows each of the parties, and who was dealing directly with whom. ( use arrows to show the direction of the relationship ) The diagram needs to show that Barum had no direct dealing with the owner of the MG.@@nickbea3443
Bloody heck. Can not get parts and then they are boxed wrong. Part of the set of bearings being wrong is definately a problem. Seems now you have to request the supplier unbox bearings and verify the sizes.
I would never spoke on the phone, but politely asked him to put it in an email. They can always change their minds conveniently when it suites them in court. If its an email, its in writing.
Lee, if and when you do end up in court, make sure you've prep'd an explanation that's pitched at a level that a non-mechanic will understand, because that's who's going to be sitting in the big chair. If you go in with jargon and tech-speak, the magistrate will simply just come down on the side of the claimant. They probably won't be aware that there was another garage involved, the claimant is unlikely to have disclosed the full details. And there's not a judge on the planet that will want to waste time listening to stuff they don't understand, they'll just come down on the side of the claimant and have done with it. It might be an idea to have a brief written outline that you can submit to the court by way of support.
The customer that complains the loudest (the other garage) in my experience is the one that knows they mucked it up and are trying to cover there arse.
Difficult one this after the phone call, nobody wants to go to court but i feel you are 100% correct in not paying him yet on the other hand issues can be sorted by two people talking to each other before it gets to court. However i would go to court as i believe your acted more than fair with the MGB engine case between two garages and it should be a warning to other chancers that your not afraid to stand up for yourself and wont be tramped over, good luck Lee
Sounds like the MG owner needs to avoid that garage in future and get his money back from them instead. Since you record various jobs you have proof of what was wrong with the MG so really it's an open and shut case. I still think sticking to your guns and holding off on paying up is the right thing to do.
Stick to your guns! As good will.... u did a good will gesture, your the most honest company I no. I hope one day you can build my c16xe for high rpm as is it's at 6700 I'd love to see closer to 8 like some of my other pals. All the best chaps. Keep up the hard graft spadge.
Time to learn what the phrase all correspondence shall be in writing and "without prejudice " . Then put a recording app on the phone then open with all calls are recorded for clarity of customer instructions and evidence.
As an ex automotive manager it's always best if you can work out a deal, it's very time wasting to go to court over small amounts, cheers from New Zealand 🇳🇿
I'm no lawyer, but I think if he's contacted you to try to come to a compromise and you've flatly refused, then that will go against you in court. Courts hate dealing with stuff that they feel shouldn't have made it there. And you're right, they will side with the customer. Would have likely been a good move to have come to some kind of deal.
Trouble is Lee a lot of people don't realise just how fragile a new engine is and that something as simple as missing that damaged PCV and the resulting rich carb settings to get it to run properly will destroy the rings and bores by bore wash with the excess fuel. Definitely don't pay - you've obviously gone out of your way to help and rebuilt the engine again for free and paid the specialist's bill. It's a bit much to expect you to pay the other bit too, especially having explained it all to him. Hope he has a rethink and backs down, as it's very unfair to you and your business.
i believe his contact written or verbal would be with the original garage and he should be taking them to court not you. You were sub contracted out the work by the original garage and therefore your contract written or verbal is with them not their customer.
Sounds like he's changing his mind, shouldn't have really talked to him at all probably. Go all the way then try to claim costs back. He's trying to get money from the wrong person.
Lee, don't be fooled into this phone call. The court has advised him to contact you for mediation. This is the next step in his claim. So he will now go back to the court and say mediation did not work. The next step for him is expensive. The guy who tried to take me to court cost him £650 for the stage. That's the courts fee. This payment will be for a court hearing for the both of you to attend.
@@pauljohnson4123 Gotcha I think the fees are lower if the case is on line, but I was unaware of this. Whenever I have been involved with small claims, the debtors have paid up before any court action.
hi if he wants to settle out of court and you said yes you are admitted that you are in the wrong or he wants to settle out of court because he knows he going to lose
I'ts not the amount at stake here it is about PRINCIPLE ... so stick to your guns. You're a man of your word .Stay the course & good luck " MATE " . As always really enjoy your vids... even in CANADA , cheers.
I used to have a restoration business and delt with customer's direct. Seems to me he should be suing the garage not yourselves! one because you have taken the time to have a look to see if it was your fault or something else and it's obviously the garage at fault. If it was my fault I paid for correction work. (not that I ever had too)
No offer --- as you said you re did the engine and did not charge plus you paid the MG builder as good will --- he needs to go back to the ones that pulled the engine in the first place and did not check why it was smooking in the first place.
You should not be speaking to him as he said it’s going to court plus I would have your costs ready of how much the second strip of engine put you out of pocket.
Lee the guy is not your customer so he has no contract with you, the garage billed him for extra work and they probley held the car till he paid there bill or if they let him take it threatened him with court action when he had not paid, as he must had payed they proberly advised him to claim from you they had there money so they did not care. Did he want the MG specialist to do it in the end sounds like you paid them some money and it sounds like they sorted it new diagram. He should not have called you should have gone through your lawyer don't pay him
Sounds like this guy is having some misgivings and will work a deal to appease his ego by not admitting total defeat. IMO, proceed to court and let the burden of proof fall on his shoulders. Personally I don’t think he has a leg to stand on.
MGB guy is dithering, as he Knows he will lose the case, so as it gets closer, counter Sue the Garage, for the extra work you put in, plus rings, gaskets etc, and NEVER do business with this Garage again
Lee, you must be psychic! After watching Thursdays video and see John. I would love to see how he measures a crank and most importantly how he grinds it. Seen how Issac balances a crank but hopefully John will show the first step. Great to see him and his Austin 7. Many thanks Dave Boscher, Guernsey, Channel Islands.
B2b transaction different rights, he is not your customer so should be thrown out of court due to this, he has no invoice in his name from you so can’t see him getting anywhere
No solicitors fees with small claims court, so just let it run. In future charge for everything and if taken to court, counterclaim. Hence why you need to bill for the stuff so there’s a paper trail.
Any communications from or to the guy should go through your solicitors.
Said the £££ solicitor £££....
If that guy calls again, decline to discuss the issue with him, but tell him to send you any communications via HIS lawyer, so you have it on record for the upcoming court case. This will also ensure that he is incurring costs.
@@ataxpayer723 Exactly. Make no comment or any further comments as this is going to court. Here's a story...at Walmart USA a white female customer was going mad (unsure why) & there's a white female employee/manager communicating with her in a good & professional way....until a "I will sue you" was mentioned by the customer. The manager realised what was going on & straight away said "No comment" to all of her questions. It will harm her/Walmarts defence. That's why being accused by a law enforcement/old bill it's best to remain silent asap.....police will stitch you up to make an easy/easier conviction....always remember that! Police can do you for talking to them then remaining silent! You wanna remain silent as soon as an allegation/accusation is made as it will turn against you!
Nonsense. This is a case where straight talk and not legal talk is necessary. Lee is a good bit smarter and more confident than the average solicitor
Better still, Any communications from that guy should go through HIS solicitors, thereby incurring him with additional costs!
He is not your friend, despite him trying to be pleasant. He is taking you to court, so dont forget that.
It's him being insincere, not nice 👍
He should be taking the garage to court
Without wishing to give legal advice, I was involved in a lot of county court disputes and we were told once a summons has been issued NOT to talk direct to the client, it could prejudice your case. But the fact he rang you trying to do a deal is significant, and possibly prejudices his...
It could also prejudice BE's, as courts don;t like parties that won't budge at all.
However. This guy is NOT a client or customer of Barum Engines, therefore Barum should not be a party to the case.@@dopiaza2006
Remember that he's not your customer. He has to claim against his supplier, the garage.
100%
Probably recording you while sitting with his solicitor
exactly
@@keithgreen9009I was thinking that as well but I am certain that anything said on recording without knowledge of being recorded is inadmissible and his lawyer would face sanctions for doing something stupid. Aside from that, I don’t think anything Lee would have relayed would give them the “edge” they are looking for.
I believe only one party needs to be aware as classed as ethical call recording used for a legitmate purpose - was also thinking the same, you can though also record calls for private use without other parties consent @@andrewwasson6153
NO SURRENDER.......
I would of told him anything you have to say to me tell your solicitor to put it in writing and send it to my solicitor..
Anyone who gets the government involved for something so petty doesn’t deserve your time of day
Indeed. The government only ever make things worse, they aren't there to help you.
Never Back Down if You are Not in The Wrong ...... Opens a Can of Worms
That case will go to preliminary hearing and the judge will say you have no case to answer and kick it out. He has ZERO legal ground to take you to court. He's not your customer
once he looses in court send him an invoice for dealing with it😂
As a business owner you HAVE to draw the line in the sand.
If you don't then you will get a reputation as being someone who simply folds when threatened with legal action.
And if you get that reputation then every dickhead and their cousin will have a go at you.
Conversely, if you get the reputation of being hard BUT FAIR then you will attract a better class of client.
Especially if you are doing top class work.
No retreat, no surrender.
Follow it through to court if you cave in and make an offer without court you open yourself up in future
With you all the way.
No deal. Learn your lessons from this situation.👍👍👍👍👍
Go court and make sure he pays all your lawyers fee's as well
You did the top job here. You did it once for free!! That shop miss diagnosed it in the first place.
no deals, he knows he's not going to win, let him take u to court
Sounds like his solicitor has told him he's not likely to win this case so he's got on the phone to try and befriend you just the way he's said about a reasonable offer.
I doubt a solicitor would tell him that, not once it's headed for court.
Though often cases are sent for mediation first to see if the parties can come to an agreement.
Excellent news, welcome John, it will be great to see what’s involved with the crank grinding 👍
Sounds to me that the chap is getting cold feet, things he will lose but is trying to save his pride - and trying you on for a few quid!
Surely this will end up going through mediation and you’ll probably be persuaded to compromise - I had a very similar experience recently 😂
Stay logical. Stay pleasant. And stay firm. If you lay it out just as you did for us, you have your best shot. From there, it's up to the judge/majestrate. Good luck.
A daft question but why does cam offset vary between two and four wheel drive ?Also ref.the MG lump why did no one change the PCV diaphram knowing it was split in the first place?
Doesn't seem a daft question to me
I would go to court and do a counter claim for your HR rate and solicitor costs for being at court because he should be claiming from the garage that did the job for him and I would let him know
Get your costs , and make them substantial , puts off future chancers
He's not your customer, so the case will be dismissed straight away.
Courts like facts. The judge will not understand the technicals, unless it can be explained very simply. Who was to blame and why. Judgement is made ' on balance of probabilities' so if supplier A did not do what they were supposed to, that must be stated. Your role must be explained along with the reason you should not have to pay anything. All the best.
PS I used to 'lap in' piston rings loooong ago
Yup, keep it simple. You don't have any contract with this person. They are not your customer. But Judges will get annoyed with piles of facts and overbearing legal reps for a small case.
SUGGESTION. To help the court, you draw a diagram that shows each of the parties, and who was dealing directly with whom. ( use arrows to show the direction of the relationship ) The diagram needs to show that Barum had no direct dealing with the owner of the MG.@@nickbea3443
You're absolutely correct to be sticking to your guns / making it a point of principle. Remember, no good deed goes unpunished ... sadly!
Bloody heck. Can not get parts and then they are boxed wrong. Part of the set of bearings being wrong is definately a problem. Seems now you have to request the supplier unbox bearings and verify the sizes.
Pretty cool to see the engines you work on over on that side of the Atlantic. From the US.
I would never spoke on the phone, but politely asked him to put it in an email. They can always change their minds conveniently when it suites them in court. If its an email, its in writing.
You need to ask your bearing supplier what is happening to their quality control? It’s a good job that you are on the ball.
Lee your in the right that garage messed up trying to blame you good luck in court mate 👍👍
Lee, if and when you do end up in court, make sure you've prep'd an explanation that's pitched at a level that a non-mechanic will understand, because that's who's going to be sitting in the big chair. If you go in with jargon and tech-speak, the magistrate will simply just come down on the side of the claimant. They probably won't be aware that there was another garage involved, the claimant is unlikely to have disclosed the full details. And there's not a judge on the planet that will want to waste time listening to stuff they don't understand, they'll just come down on the side of the claimant and have done with it. It might be an idea to have a brief written outline that you can submit to the court by way of support.
No deals. The garage is responsible - he's trying to get his wasted money off the wrong people.
The customer that complains the loudest (the other garage) in my experience is the one that knows they mucked it up and are trying to cover there arse.
Go to court, I think you'll win, that said I think he may drop the action
If he wants to make a deal out of court, he knows he is on shaky ground.
Think you will find the customer can not take you to court only the garage can
If the garage had done their job, you wouldn't have had the engine back in the first place.
Don't forget to claim all your legal fee's from him when you WIN.
I may be incorrect but I believe that fees in a small claims court are not recoverable.
@@RonSeymour1 you are correct
did Lee say it's the small claims court@@RonSeymour1
Stock to your guns. You've been MORE than fair
Might be a good idea to take photos of your work to give to the customer and save yourself just in case.
Bring on John!
Get John back on and lets see him in action at Wiscome Hill 👍
Difficult one this after the phone call, nobody wants to go to court but i feel you are 100% correct in not paying him yet on the other hand issues can be sorted by two people talking to each other before it gets to court. However i would go to court as i believe your acted more than fair with the MGB engine case between two garages and it should be a warning to other chancers that your not afraid to stand up for yourself and wont be tramped over, good luck Lee
Courts don't favour one side or the other, they rule in accordance with the law
Thats it lee, keep to ur guns n be Billy the kid m8
Id have Hung up !...... see you in court pal !
Sounds like the MG owner needs to avoid that garage in future and get his money back from them instead. Since you record various jobs you have proof of what was wrong with the MG so really it's an open and shut case. I still think sticking to your guns and holding off on paying up is the right thing to do.
document everything
Stick to your guns! As good will.... u did a good will gesture, your the most honest company I no. I hope one day you can build my c16xe for high rpm as is it's at 6700 I'd love to see closer to 8 like some of my other pals. All the best chaps. Keep up the hard graft spadge.
Do not talk on the phone. All correspondence in writing or a legal representative.
This won't go to court... You are not his customer. Period.
Note the duration of the phone call. Charge that to him at your invoice-able rate.
Go hard go to court and make sure it is explained correctly and clearly to people who have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MOST INPORTANT
Stand your ground, don't pay. The Garage Foxtrot Uniformed in the first place before you ever knew rhe engine exists
Time to learn what the phrase all correspondence shall be in writing and "without prejudice " . Then put a recording app on the phone then open with all calls are recorded for clarity of customer instructions and evidence.
As an ex automotive manager it's always best if you can work out a deal, it's very time wasting to go to court over small amounts, cheers from New Zealand 🇳🇿
Looks like he's been told he's Pi$$ing in the wind !!you have no case to answer as you have no contract with him.
Tell him to go PVC ! LOL
I'm no lawyer, but I think if he's contacted you to try to come to a compromise and you've flatly refused, then that will go against you in court. Courts hate dealing with stuff that they feel shouldn't have made it there. And you're right, they will side with the customer. Would have likely been a good move to have come to some kind of deal.
Dot i's, cross t's, get everything you contracted to do in writing, don't let finished jobs go until paid in full.
No stand your ground Lee.
I think you have been more than fair and the customer should drop his claim.
Yes, make a deal, tell them to take their business elsewhere
He is not your client end of he will end up loosing and paying costs keep going he is trying it on ringing you up to make a deal cheeky chappy
Do not pay, if you do you will be setting a precedent for others to follow buddy. In today’s world you have to be a bit hard arsed.
Don't offer a penny.
Court ‼️
Trouble is Lee a lot of people don't realise just how fragile a new engine is and that something as simple as missing that damaged PCV and the resulting rich carb settings to get it to run properly will destroy the rings and bores by bore wash with the excess fuel.
Definitely don't pay - you've obviously gone out of your way to help and rebuilt the engine again for free and paid the specialist's bill.
It's a bit much to expect you to pay the other bit too, especially having explained it all to him.
Hope he has a rethink and backs down, as it's very unfair to you and your business.
15:21 Respectfully... You are decking the cylinder head surface to be parallel with the pan surface, and any potential misalignment of your table.
the owner of the car can claim from his garage as they are the ones who he paid , they will need to then claim from you
i believe his contact written or verbal would be with the original garage and he should be taking them to court not you. You were sub contracted out the work by the original garage and therefore your contract written or verbal is with them not their customer.
Don't make an offer! It suggest you feel liable. On the basis of what you have said you have not been unreasonable.
Sounds like he's changing his mind, shouldn't have really talked to him at all probably. Go all the way then try to claim costs back. He's trying to get money from the wrong person.
He wasn't your customer so he has to claim against his garage not you!!
Lee, don't be fooled into this phone call. The court has advised him to contact you for mediation. This is the next step in his claim. So he will now go back to the court and say mediation did not work. The next step for him is expensive. The guy who tried to take me to court cost him £650 for the stage. That's the courts fee. This payment will be for a court hearing for the both of you to attend.
Are you sure that was small claims court?
Yes, mate. That is the process. You end up at a magistrates court for a hearing. Been throught the system twice.
@@pauljohnson4123 So Lee's claimant would have to spend £650 to go to court to recover £300?
No, the fees will be charged to Lee if he loses. I lost one of my court cases, and I ended up paying all their fees.
@@pauljohnson4123 Gotcha
I think the fees are lower if the case is on line, but I was unaware of this.
Whenever I have been involved with small claims, the debtors have paid up before any court action.
hi if he wants to settle out of court and you said yes you are admitted that you are in the wrong or he wants to settle out of court because he knows he going to lose
Just watching a US engine rebuild and they have the same problems with mislabelled bearing shells.
Your point? Oh wait... I bet you think this is something new...
@@Look_What_You_Did Just an observation.
Oh wait! - you probably though you were being clever.
I'ts not the amount at stake here it is about PRINCIPLE ... so stick to your guns. You're a man of your word .Stay the course & good luck " MATE " . As always really enjoy your vids... even in CANADA , cheers.
I used to have a restoration business and delt with customer's direct. Seems to me he should be suing the garage not yourselves! one because you have taken the time to have a look to see if it was your fault or something else and it's obviously the garage at fault. If it was my fault I paid for correction work. (not that I ever had too)
If you have never made a mistake then you have never run a shop.
Stick to ur guns Lee and go to court.
No deals, go to court, he wasn't your customer the garage was.
I’m curious…. How many times have you been to court with this business?
Bill's of exchange act 1882
yes stick to your GUNS!!!! IT WAS THE PVC VALVE and that's that!!!!
PCV sorry
No offer --- as you said you re did the engine and did not charge plus you paid the MG builder as good will --- he needs to go back to the ones that pulled the engine in the first place and did not check why it was smooking in the first place.
You should not be speaking to him as he said it’s going to court plus I would have your costs ready of how much the second strip of engine put you out of pocket.
Lee the guy is not your customer so he has no contract with you, the garage billed him for extra work and they probley held the car till he paid there bill or if they let him take it threatened him with court action when he had not paid, as he must had payed they proberly advised him to claim from you they had there money so they did not care. Did he want the MG specialist to do it in the end sounds like you paid them some money and it sounds like they sorted it new diagram.
He should not have called you should have gone through your lawyer don't pay him
Put a different set of eyes on and ask yourself why he rang …
No deal
Stick to your guns the guy is having second thoughts about taking u to court
Don't do any deals make sure you tell the court that he is not your customer you don't know him
Stand your ground...
Sounds like this guy is having some misgivings and will work a deal to appease his ego by not admitting total defeat. IMO, proceed to court and let the burden of proof fall on his shoulders. Personally I don’t think he has a leg to stand on.
He doesn't, but sounds like he is trying the US approach of suing everyone related to the engine.
MGB guy is dithering, as he Knows he will lose the case, so as it gets closer, counter Sue the Garage, for the extra work you put in, plus rings, gaskets etc, and NEVER do business with this Garage again
Lee, you must be psychic! After watching Thursdays video and see John. I would love to see how he measures a crank and most importantly how he grinds it. Seen how Issac balances a crank but hopefully John will show the first step. Great to see him and his Austin 7. Many thanks Dave Boscher, Guernsey, Channel Islands.
Hands up for Crank Grinding by John...
🙋
B2b transaction different rights, he is not your customer so should be thrown out of court due to this, he has no invoice in his name from you so can’t see him getting anywhere
Agreed...believe it will be thrown out of court..
No solicitors fees with small claims court, so just let it run.
In future charge for everything and if taken to court, counterclaim. Hence why you need to bill for the stuff so there’s a paper trail.