Hii! I'm very into about rebalancing roles who seems too weak/unfair/strong. Will post my thoughts about some roles Hypo comments during the video: 19- Cursed: I prefer a solution the community gave long time ago: Cursed has a talisman with one use. If you use it, the next night you'll be killed instead if werewolves attack you. 13- Bomber: it's a good idea the option to throw grenades, but I like make the roles has an "unique touch". I thought the idea of make Bomber's bombs can automatically explode if one of the players with the bombs dies. Bomber can also place more bombs the next night without wait. (Maybe pretty OP, but it's a base concept that may be adjusted) 7- Butcher: about Butcher, I think I may have a more interesting concept for a nerf/rework: Butcher can give up to two pieces of meat every night to protect other players. But if a player protected by you isn't attacked, you can't protect them the next night. In this rework, Butcher will have unlimited meats. --------- I want to add a Lurker rework. Right now Lurker seems just an "omni-cursed" who punish you for fake claim roles but also discourages you for do it (you don't know what will be your final team). Also the idea of the Lurker can claim and ask for a bullet seems pretty bad in terms of design. Heres my idea: "At start of the game, you'll be assigned to a team. Your team may be any non-villager team. You don't know what's your team nor your teammates, same for them as well. At night, select a player to lurk, at the start of the next day you'll know if that player belongs to your team or not".
@@ale-roka I like your Bomber idea, they could implement it and make you place two bombs instead of 3 (if that doesnt make it too weak). I also had Lurker on my shortlist, so its nice to see someone mention it 😉
4:27: The only time the tag ability is actually useful for the Siren is when Siren is insti. 21:15: It should not stop bombs from exploding though if they were set before full moon. But aside from it, I agree with the change.
The option that Werewolves shouldn’t be able to see the role hidden from Confusion Wolf doesn’t make much sense to me honestly. I mean, mosto of the times you use the ability on a role Wolf Seer checked previously.
The solo killer's kill would also get hidden from others and revealed to the wws which is pretty strong. Also, it would be way more effective for the wolf seer to check someone else.
A bigger problem is that you get random roles from advanced role cards... 13:06 for example, lets say you upgraded BH for the "Skill and felxibility" role, but you ended up with the "mass protection" role
I dont know how the astronomer still hasnt been changed after so many months of being the most overpowered regular villager in the game. Anyways your ideas is very good, but I also think the new moon announcement should be removed otherwise you can just confirm yourself so easily.
I loved this video, really nailed the ana/seer point on the head. I think that is a great idea, but I think you should have taken the priest/mm/judge tree into consideration too as in my eyes, it's one of the most unbalanced ones
thanks for the compliment. Ironically, I think Priest/MM/Judge tree belongs to the top 5 most balanced role trees, so there is a big difference in thought there. I will explain why I think they are balanced: -Priest, may seem the weakest on first sight, but this can summon a bullet from thin air, albeit only for werewolves. Very good role for crowd control early on (when there are multiple informers with conflicting info, you can prove who is wrong/right, only weakness is Fool). -Marksman can also summon bullets from thin air, 2 even, and works against solos, but is really slow so not good at crowd control at all, I would rather call it a slower, less risky Gunner. -Judge cannot summon bullets from thin air, because it needs to sacrifice voting phases for it to work, it's a fun role imo, but a bit slower than Priest and quicker than Marksman. Marksman is best for quantity kills, Priest is best for crowd control and Judge is kind of in the middle. If you were to change anything here, I would at most make Priest be able to kill solos as well, but I am not sure if that is needed. Roles that I also had on my shortlist, but didnt make the cut, were: Alpha werewolf, Lurker, Tough guy, Corruptor/Illusionist (they need to be a bit more distinct), Mortician, Split wolf and Pacifist.
Yeah priest is the outlier for sure, and my solution was to make it be able to kill solo/converted players to at least make it consistent with the other roles. I see your logic but I personally don't agree. Much love ❤️
My opinions on these roles: 20-Storm Wolf-this role does absolutely nothing but ruin my quests and clearing messages each day,so i think a rework is needed,buffing it is unnecessary,nerfing it makes its base role better than it, Rework: once per game at discussion you can use storm to shuffle everyones grid and shuffle names,if someone checked by an info role last night dies,you get information on all of the info roles in game,once per game you can create a cloud during the day making votes anonymous. 19-cursed-what this role does is bore players out of their mind and make lots of ppl flee,so we need a more fun mechanic along with a buff Buff-wws know your role after day 6 Fun mechanic:while being a villager,you can once per game guess if you get turned next night,if you do,you turn into a jww instead of regular ww but u get revealed to a villager,if not,u lose this ability QoL-wws cant turn you after info roles check the last ww and dont die,u can still be turned the night the last ww got checked 18-president-no changes i think this role is fine rn 17-Siren-needs a nerf and a buff strangely enough,so i’ll grant it a rework Rework:you can siren 3 ppl n1 as before N2 u can kill 2 ppl as before N3 u HAVE to kill the last entranced person unless they are dead Sirened players dont die if u die N4 u only have 2 entrances and n6 u only have 2 entrances again To compensate for this nerf Every night after n4 u can check what team someones on 16-Analyst-i think its a fine role but im gonna give it a minor change Minor change-checking 2 evils gives you a confetti on your screen if u didnt check those 2 ppl before 15-Seer-on odd nights you can check the exact role,on even nights you can check the type of role Minor nerf imo but i dont think seer deserves heavy nerfs 14-Converters-nerfs to all 3 Bandit-u can only have 2 accomplices per game,cant have 2 at the same time,if both accos die u become a serial killer SL-max sect members nerfed from 5 to 4 ZB- number of zombies nerfed from everyone to just 5 players at a time 13-BB-if u accidentally bomb ur cpl or insti cpl,then that player doesnt get bombed Eg-16 is bomber,1 is their couple friend,they accidentally bomb 1 2 and 3,4 will now be bombed instead of 1, If they bombed 1 5 9 and 1 is cpl of theirs,13 will now be bombed instead of 1,if they bombed 1 6 12,the reverse would happen and 4 and the other diagonals will get bombed Other opinions in the replies
12-Wolfflu-nerfs: U can only influence the same player twice per game If you run out of players to influence u become a reg ww To compensate for the nerf-day message will no longer say wolfflu influed a player And 1 more buff-if wolflu is the last ww he can choose to turn a player if turning a player doesnt win wws the game 11-Grave robber ????i dont see no reason to change this role at all even if its unfun 10-sk-check 1 players aura every Night 9-trapper-minor buff Ur traps can also kill solos 8-FT The players who get cards 1 second before ft dies wont get revealed And upon death card reveals from ft are delayed for 2 phases If u get card u have to use them in 2 nights 7-butcher 1 meat nerf Has to give at least 1meat every night apart from n1 6-nwm I see no problem 5-hh If your target dies u become fool instead of hh Rah im tired so i cant say actual good balances but i’ll try 4-Gambler-u have 1 village,3 ww,2 solo checks per game,if you guess one of these right,you dont lose a guess 3-confu 1 confusion nerf,cant confu n1 2-shaman-its skill based but every person in sb and i hate this role so a good buff would be Shamaned person looks like anyone in ww team including sorcerer and wwf instead of just shaman 1-astronomer Yeah it takes so much skill to tap a button and demolish the night,and also 500% more skill to tap a moon and a player just so skillful man Anyways i will nerf this role to oblivion 5 nerfs 1st u cant vote int eh day u used new moon 2nd,rk can kill2 ppl during new moon 3rd,u die regardless of if the person you meteored is good or not 4th,nah imma make some actual balanced Actual balance:3 nerfs and 1 buff The nerfs: Using new moon does not announce it to everyone so astro cant just clear themselves Meteor rushing now reveals astros role Astro cant talk in day chat after using new moon To compensate the buff is U cant be silenced the rest of the game Man i hope i didnt mess up i am too tired
My opinion and ideas for each role Storm Wolf - I agree Cursed - allow Liberty cursed since it's just a villager role with an ability that helps no one but WWs, so they should be able to side them even when unturned. Either that or give it a complete rework but thats highly unlikely. Siren: I think this is a great but one thing I want to add onto is it shouldn't notify players when they get entranced. That's another reason the entrance ability sucked. Seer - I only disagree because moving it onto custom or crazy games doesn't fix the issue it just mitigates to be a custom or crazy game mode exclusive problem. So yes itd fix it on Sandbox but the issue IS still there. As well as that its highly unlikely it'll ever get any changes including moving it to be custom/crazy game exclusive. Having it mute the next day could work but that might make the role too complicated somehow so im not sure Analyst - I agree but I don't get what you mean by "same aura as duos" That just sounds like Detective with extra steps. Bandit/SL/Zombie - Don't let them convert anymore after a certain number have been turned throughout the game so they have to vote off remaining villagers or just make the game automatically end when village and converters are equal or more just like WWs. The XP nerf wouldn't stop people from giving in imo so the second option you mention is a more viable option. Bomber - you should be able to choose to place bombs in a row yourself and also wherever you want (like arsonist) itll still have a timer and bypass protection as always but you can choose to put it in a row. You still place 3 bombs but two will explode at night and the other at your choosing during the day Before the voting phase. Wolffluencer - yes it should. Not because mayor exists but because it can be a form of harassment. Grave Robber - just like what I said about Seer the role itself is still the same but I will say I do agree because it does have its own game mode (Graverobber Mayhem I believe) and it does fit a lot more as a crazy game role but its very unlikely its going to be moved anytime soon. Serial Killer - I agree it needs a buff or rework to make it more equal to its adv roles Trapper - I agree somewhat that Trapper is stronger than BH which makes BH sometimes feel obsolete but I disagree in making it just role block since the whole gimmick of BH is to kill, and so does Flagger too. Maybe make Trapper wait a day to place another trap (or wait a day to activate traps etc) Fortune Teller - the idea sounds cool but.. if villagers dont know they have cards but nonvillagers can reveal.. thats just.. outing themselves?? Is that the point?? Heres a idea but it's basically a rework soo FT can give 2 players 2 cards, the players can give back cards to reveal the other player making their own cards obsolete or revealing themselves to make the other players cards obsolete. Those with obsolete cards will be revealed to the other player if the FT dies, if one of the players with cards dies the one with obsolete cards gets revealed to the FT. Only nonvillagers sees the FT when they are given cards. If none of the players reveal, both players' cards will go obsolete. The FT will not see who has obsolete cards. Idk just an idea its probably not balanced at all either lol 🤷♂️ Butcher - only 3 meats and maybe not being able to protect the same players every night idk Night watchman - it being able to see if players are being protected as well as being able to protect both of them is too much. Its needs a nerf. Headhunter - just make it completely solo e.g when their target dies they get a new one like you said. This is what I also think should happen with Cursed. But again no idea how that could be accomplished. As well as that wws/solo should also be candidates to be targets imo. If thats not possible I completely agree with just giving them a new target. Gambler: I agree Confusion wolf: pick someone to hide during the day only wws see their role when wws kill them it isnt affected by solo kills. Wolf shaman: absolutely, but RL dying sounds funny and it could help kind of fix the "i visit 6 if i die its them" problem just say its shaman lmaoo Astronomer: blocking the game for everyone doesnt sound like a good idea especially if it can be used day 2. New moon still needs complete rework imo. As well as that I'll mention it, Witch shouldn't be RRV🗿 Roles not mentioned that I think need balancing Lurker: Can't kill when turned while all wws/solos etc are dead. As well as that since they can be turned by village too people usually can just outright claim lurker and ask to be shot with no repercussions and get easy confirmation 🤦 Alpha ww: needs a buff or something idkk man Thats it lol
@@CircuitArcade lurker and alpha were on my shortlist too 😉 With the Analyst one, I meant that the Ana would just see what auras the two players have, but not who has which. And if youd check two players with the same aura, youd still get roleblocked the night after.
I also had opinions for bb:Since the arso got the buff that it bypasses prot,then why not give bb the buff that it doesnt have to put the bombs in a stright line
Hi hypo,a little late to the video,sorry,I agree on some parts like the analyst but some i didn't really agree with,but one thing I would change is the serial killer,I recently got a win but only because I was helped by the jww,it's very hard I think the serial killer should be in the others sections and the actual replacement of the serial killer would be the assasin Assasin: Team:solo Aura:unknown Advanced role: cannibal,evil detective Abilities: kill,mark Description:kill one person every night,you can attempt to mark someone during daytime by guessing their roles,if you successfully guessed their roles,they will be marked. You can kill all marked players by not choosing to kill that night. After a kill like this you cannot guess any roles the following day. I also have another role,I will appreciate some feedback,thank you! Security guard: Team:village Aura:unknown Base role: jailer Ability:lock,active/passive Description:during daytime,you can choose a person to lock and you choose to either be active or passive. locked players will be roleblocked as well as unkillable that night. Active:you can talk to the locked person and you will see if they're a ww or not(you cannot see if they are ww during an astronomer's new moon) ,if you or the locked person is attacked and you're not protected,you will die. Passive: you and the locked person cannot die;however,you cannot talk the locked person,you will see who visited locked person
I like the Assassin's idea, I would recommend changing the name of it though since there is already an Assassin in the game (albeit exclusive to a crazy gamemode)
@hypostein hey hypo, thanks for the review,yes I was thinking the name,maybe something like "executioner" ,also what do you think about the security guard role in my comment?
you mean its useless? It really depends imo if you play with competent players. With good teammates, this role is ridiculously op because you can tie votes relatively early (day 3 or 2 even sometimes) when you collab with the solos, with bad players, its nothing more than just one player getting wolffluenced, confirming themselves because they wont be a werewolf because of it, and the vote doesnt really change anything...
Even though I disagree with some of the changes I still hope the developer listens to some feedback, almost none of the suggested changes get implemented 20 Storm Wolf- Blocking players in the player list also hides their chat messages that could be abused to find who's who, i think storm wolf should just be a custom game exclusive 19 Cursed- I don't think a role that can turn evil not being able to fakeclaim is bad so liberty cursed is needed 18 President- Yes 17 Siren- Yes 16 Seer- Yes 15 Analyst- Yes but analyst can still find two evils in the first night which i personally find unfair, i think analyst should also have the disadvantage of not seeing the auras if two players have the same aura, especially if you want it to be a detective or aura seer advanced role 14 Bandit/Sect Leader/Zombie- Making it so game ends when its village and converter left wouldn't fix the issue because if converters really wanted to give villagers the win they would just leave the last werewolf alive 13 Bomber- I don't think bomber needs a buff, bomber needs a rework, bomber being able to casually kill 3 werewolves or 3 important villagers is still unbalanced 12 Wolffluencer- Yes 11 Grave Robber- Yes 10 Serial Killer- Yes 9 Trapper- The main concept of the beast hunter role tree is being able to kill so i don't think it would make sense to just take that away from trapper 8 Fortune Teller- Yes 7 Butcher- Yes but I think butcher would still be better than doctor but if i said it should be 3 meats i would get killed by the butcher card owners :P 6 Night Watchman- I think night watchman being able to confirm other protectors is just a flawed mechanic and giving him double the protection is just a buff night watchman doesn't deserve 5 Headhunter- Yes, another problem with headhunter is a evil just counterclaiming headhunter's target, getting a successful mislynch and making headhunter win, that gives headhunter a lame win as well as punish the evil for counterclaiming but i have no idea how they could fix that 4 Gambler- Yes 3 Confusion Wolf- I think confusion wolf should just be reworked to be a skill based role instead of just clicking a button once 2 Wolf Shaman- Yes, btw gambler and violinist are already affected by wolf shaman 1 Astronomer- Yes
@@aptokro3005 I was unsure about gambler being affected, but vio I never even thought about. In that case, its not as bad as I thought it was, but still for Morti, Sheriff and Spirit seer, I defintely think it could be added. On 14: I do think its partially helping because even if you keep a werewolf alive, the werewolf will keep killing and as long as he hits unconverted villagers, its going to scare them/piss em off, so some villagers may be tempted to kill the werewolf or turn against the SL/Bandit/Zombie. Nonetheless, the easier solution is the xp reduction. Also for Butcher, Id also agree there, but lets stay realistic haha
All these suggestions are good. For seer, losing the ability to speak the following day after checking should be good enough. Aura seer can also be used to introduce new players. Also, what are your thoughts on alpha ww? I think it needs a buff
Why do you keep asking for Astronomer nerf?!?!?!?!? It is a PERFECT role, because you can make all the werewolves cry in their night chat for half a minute and they will have a toxic taste for the remainder of the game, making it super EASY to find them! Astronomer is MY BABE! I TAKE IT WITH ME IN BED!!! My buff idea: Make new moon also affect solo killer + remove the astronomer suicide if they kill a villager
I'm a sandbox player, so im not sure what its like in ranked, but the balance is out of control, astronomer, flagger and tg basically tank your chances. It's so wild that they haven't changed astro yet, it would still be one of my favourites if no one could use abilities. no shadow wolf? probably screwed. Alpha? Again, probably screwed. most the time you just have to hope someone flees or throws. having all these newer advanced killing roles takes away from skill in the game, you can literally have 3 flaggers in one game. these roles are fun of course, but broken as hell when you just toss it in rrv, rather than have broad but balanced random categories. Also if your teammate takes swamp or storm you're basically screwed. about suggestions for changes, a lot of them will get rejected because it needs to stay simple, its super unlikely sk or bomber will ever be changed.
I 100% agree, it is very unlikely that we see a change in this regard. I am not someone who can talk much about balance in ranked, but ranked has the HUGE advantage of not being stuck with role trees, meaning banning certain broken advanced roles is so much easier. For the sake of balance, the devs would need to either really rework the role tree concept and shove some roles out of role trees that can just not be balanced well (like grave robber) OR they should heavily change the roles themselves to almost be at the point of having clones with a little twist, which I won't be opposed to, but a large portion of the community would be.
I agree with most of these but one thing is confusion wolf. i dont think it's really strong except for night one, youre useless when villagers claim because youre confirming theyre not a ww. trickster has a better take on deception imo and is way better
@@krosalar trickster has the downsides of: 1- needing skill to get an actually good outcome, you cant just kill a villager at night and have them tricked, unlike confusion wolf, which has the ability done way easier 2- cant stack with solos
I find most of these changes interesting. However I want to touch on the 3 conversion roles and the fact that these roles are inherently flawed as there will always be people who would rather be converted than win with village no matter how much exp they get which is very unfair. I will say though I dislike bandit the most out of the 3 because of the fact it's like a hybrid solo. It can convert and kill consistently which I think makes it the best solo killer in the game for that reason. The converted player has a super easy time faking their own role as long as they aren't part of the Vigi or Med role tree, even then villagers not having that role in play is really bad. And they have the option to kill which just gives them more pressure. I dislike losing just because we have to watch out for what is basically a solo killer with an extra life, and if you accidentally vote out the accomplice first then you've already lost. I understand bandit is supposed to be a beginner role of sorts for the conversion role tree, but it has way too much going for it that the only solo converters just don't have. Zombie I think now might be the most balanced due to the other zombies being vulnerable to werewolves and they decay after 3 days, which gives them a little more to think about, involving more risk and reward. Sect leader will always be my favorite though because you can be converted and still play as the role you got (Something I dislike from bandit/zombie). Which really just makes it a separate village team with a president which overall I think is very unique. However for bandit can't really suggest a rework because it would ruin the identity of the bandit, that's unfortunately just due to how flawed it's design is. But again conversion in a game like this will always be flawed and hard to balance. Sorry for the huge rant but I just have very strong feelings towards the bandit.
I think lucker needs to be buffed so that if he is a werewolf or a solo killer he can hold a knife and kill people every night like a serial killer and an instigator, Lucker when on the side of werewolves or solo killers when all teammates die and Lucker doesn't do anything he looks useless because Lucker is also ranked as hard not normal or easy.
Tbh, the evil sided lurker should only kill if all of their teammates die. In exchange, the lurker kills will announce to the village about which side the lurker is at. For example: "The werewolf sided Lurker has killed (Player)"
Making lurker a solo kill with ww team or rk is too strong imo,should only kill when their team dies,and they should steal the role of the weakest ww when they fie,or the rk when they die depending on the team they turned into(evil),and also i want to make lurker a bit more fun so maybe you dont see your teammates but can chat with them anonymously in the night chat bcz lurker cant even chat in night with their evil team
@@SkyFWWO deleting is almost never the solution, but just having them as custom/crazy exclusive is something you could totally ask for, Id even say that all roles you listed could get that status.
Cool video. I agree with some of your ideas but not all: - Siren’s tag ability is tha sole reason I find it fun so if it’s changed it’d ruin my personal favorite solo killer. - I think any suggestion that’s “restrict xyz to Custom/Quick Games” is pretty lazy. - Im against any changes to Wolf Influencer that don’t include nerfs to Mayor. - Tha Fortune Teller idea was just awful. If villagers aren’t aware they have cards, it’d make anyone who uses them before FT death confirmed evil anyways, so what’s tha point in allowing evils to fake their reveal? - Astronomers does need a nerf, but I hate tha idea of reverting new moon back to its previous state. It sucked back then too and more commonly just stalled tha games for longer than necessary. New Moon should be reworked entirely. - Tha Zombie/SL/Bandit change I think is “meh.” In most cases if SL wins I’d say skill issue on wolves part. I think it’s cool to make it less rewarding to win with them, but I don’t think it’d change much (I personally don’t care about XP so I don’t know how much others do in this game). - tha Cursed change is also bad, but it’s also just fundamentally a terrible role so it’s difficult to think of changes.
@@Im_Absolute some decent takes, but you kinda missed the mark with Fortune teller. The idea of that person was that evils cannot reveal a fake role, they can only reveal their real role. See it as a Loudmouth x 2, but with the caveat that none of the card owners is exposed evil before FT dies. If one of them is, they use the card as they are confirmed anyways and they can nullify the full ability of the FT, whilst if FT dies before any of that happens, it acts as double loudmouth. Also moving roles to crazy/quick/custom: you can call it lazy, but there is a reason I suggested them because these roles are flawed for any form of 'decently competitive' play, whilst also being unique/easy to understand to receive an overhaul. Now I challenge you with coming up with good reworks for roles like Grave robber and Seer, keeping them balanced and easy to understand or in the case of GR, crazy enough to be a gimmick for gamemodes like GR mayhem but also balanced enough for sandbox. 😉
@ ahh okay now I understand FT change. In any case, I still dislike it. I enjoy tha current version of Fortune Teller more than tha proposed one offered here. As for changes to Grave Robber ~ I’m mostly fine with its current state, but I don’t think it should have a team until their target dies, forcing them to kill another player to “win.” Then they’d change its targets so you don’t become RV roles. As for Seer, there’s been plenty of decent suggestions for how to change it, but tha one I favor most is “limit its number of checks” So that they only have 3 checks every game.
@Im_Absolute so about those: FT, whether you 'enjoy' the current version or not doesnt mean that it is balanced and thats what this video is about. Fortune teller is arguably a very strong role now, much stronger than Loudmouth for sure, probably also than Bell-ringer, hard to compare with Avenger. Unlike all these three roles, its self-provable, which is not only bad role design when other roles in its tree are not, but also just a strong and boring gimmick for a werewolf type game. Self-provability can only really work if its really really hard to accomplish that or if its really weak other than that (like the previous FT actually). Currently, its much stronger than Loudmouth unless the player in control is a really bad player and lets the card owners use cards without pointing it out. Like it or not, but it should be weaker so that picking Loudmouth over FT is justifiable. GR, I actually really like that idea, it gives the other players also a clue on what role they might have turned into since you are pushing more than now. Only concern I have is what will happen with Lurker, because that seems like a "boring GR" type of role then. Seer, Id love to see a rework like that, but unfortunately, I dont deem it likely since the devs want it as a simple role. Simple roles are good for new players (hence my quick game reference).
@ @ yeah I’m aware tha devs seem apprehensive to tha idea of changing Seer (and Serial Killer) so it’s not… it’s not a “bad” idea to relegate to those modes. I just think it’s a lazy way for tha devs to handle it instead of making it more challenging for experienced players. It’s sensible though. Ideally nothing would “happen” to lurker since you’re trying to attack other people with Grave Robber versus being attacked yourself as Lurker. People floated tha ideal of letting Lurker kill as last WW/RK and I’m cool with that happening too. As for FT, I agree being self provable is a bad mechanic. However I think its current state is “fine” since it trades self probability with unreliable information. You can: - Claim to not have gotten cards and leave Fortune Teller alive ~ framing them as Fool. - falsify your card before you kill them. I think it’s niche scenarios in which FT will be overly oppressive role and don’t think it’s worth changing until it becomes a common occurrence.
Grave Robber is one of my favourite roles, because the other options are just annoying af if you play them. But for the rest of your role changed I would agree👍
Grave robber is just a hard case to be fair. When Im in a casual mood, I like a GR game, but its just terrible for any balanced game. Also whether you like GR a lot or not doesnt mean it shouldnt get changed; most of the times you will play against a GR rather than play as it.
aside from roles the guardian and ban appeal system need to change. I'm not buying stuff from a game who can ban me. they should hire guardians instead of volunteers and train them in customer service especially paying customers. I got banned and got a 100$ refund from apple. hope they regret banning me
@hu6706 tbf, bans are a good thing as long as they are justified and spending money should not be a factor when it comes to deciding if you get banned or not... In fact, you should always consider potential bans, bankruptcy of the game and other factors that may revoke (your) access to the game. That is the unfortunate truth of spending money on virtual items, which includes nfts as well btw.
@@fen1540 it depends with who/against who you play whether its weak or strong honestly. Its weak against decent-good players, but really strong against bad villagers and as random ww.
You might want to check Better Wolvesville server, we are trying to balance all the roles there and run Discord WOV games online. I can send you a link if you are interested.
I dont value his opinion as much haha, that guy has a lot of things I disagree with. Reading his role opinions is like watching comedy sometimes, but you gotta appreciate the weird guy 😂
Seer should be top Priority, literally ruins the game. I'd rather play with 2 astronomers than one seer, at least I can kite a claim as a wolf and give enough time for wolves to kill and plan
I personally think trapper needs a buff, it's weaker than flagger and can't kill SK/Canni (whereas flagger can redirect those attacks) and if rk attacks a trap, all traps get disabled without even being used
@@zentrix4u well Trapper has the advantage of guaranteeing a ww to die pr rk to have his attack blocked. Id say, if you want a buff, come up with a buff for BH too that still puts all roles on equal strength 😉
I've found all of your 20 ideas awesome. And astronomer one is definitely my favorite
Hii! I'm very into about rebalancing roles who seems too weak/unfair/strong. Will post my thoughts about some roles Hypo comments during the video:
19- Cursed: I prefer a solution the community gave long time ago: Cursed has a talisman with one use. If you use it, the next night you'll be killed instead if werewolves attack you.
13- Bomber: it's a good idea the option to throw grenades, but I like make the roles has an "unique touch". I thought the idea of make Bomber's bombs can automatically explode if one of the players with the bombs dies. Bomber can also place more bombs the next night without wait. (Maybe pretty OP, but it's a base concept that may be adjusted)
7- Butcher: about Butcher, I think I may have a more interesting concept for a nerf/rework: Butcher can give up to two pieces of meat every night to protect other players. But if a player protected by you isn't attacked, you can't protect them the next night. In this rework, Butcher will have unlimited meats.
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I want to add a Lurker rework. Right now Lurker seems just an "omni-cursed" who punish you for fake claim roles but also discourages you for do it (you don't know what will be your final team). Also the idea of the Lurker can claim and ask for a bullet seems pretty bad in terms of design. Heres my idea:
"At start of the game, you'll be assigned to a team. Your team may be any non-villager team. You don't know what's your team nor your teammates, same for them as well. At night, select a player to lurk, at the start of the next day you'll know if that player belongs to your team or not".
@@ale-roka I like your Bomber idea, they could implement it and make you place two bombs instead of 3 (if that doesnt make it too weak). I also had Lurker on my shortlist, so its nice to see someone mention it 😉
I made the suggestion at 13:13, and it isn't the best solution but it seems like there isn't anything really better
The three downvotes are fortune teller card owners, keep it up bro ✊
I love this video, I really like these reworks! Especially the Fortune Teller, Trapper, and Confusion (3rd change)
Very solid video as always!
Tbh they should just make Witch, Forger and Astronomer in the Random Strong Villager category instead of rrv
4:27: The only time the tag ability is actually useful for the Siren is when Siren is insti.
21:15: It should not stop bombs from exploding though if they were set before full moon. But aside from it, I agree with the change.
@@unknowed5048 yes I 100% agree with that, Bomber's whole gimmick is that the bombs go off regardless what happens
I think limiting how many traps the trapper can make is pretty good too like flagger
The option that Werewolves shouldn’t be able to see the role hidden from Confusion Wolf doesn’t make much sense to me honestly. I mean, mosto of the times you use the ability on a role Wolf Seer checked previously.
@@PowerMadness223 theres a truth in that, a combination with idea 1 or 2 would make sense there
The solo killer's kill would also get hidden from others and revealed to the wws which is pretty strong.
Also, it would be way more effective for the wolf seer to check someone else.
A bigger problem is that you get random roles from advanced role cards... 13:06 for example, lets say you upgraded BH for the "Skill and felxibility" role, but you ended up with the "mass protection" role
@@snakeixirTM thats a different type of problem called gambling. Food for a new video Id say.
@@hypostein yeah probably true haha
Espacially if there are 3 possible advanced roles (just like the Wolf shaman), 33% chance for your favourite role is to low
@@elobluetrix2957 exactly
The fact that I'm ecstatic when seeing your video compared to seeing Kurzgesagt uploading really shows that these videos are gems
I dont know how the astronomer still hasnt been changed after so many months of being the most overpowered regular villager in the game.
Anyways your ideas is very good, but I also think the new moon announcement should be removed otherwise you can just confirm yourself so easily.
@@gougou737 that is a must yes!
I loved this video, really nailed the ana/seer point on the head. I think that is a great idea, but I think you should have taken the priest/mm/judge tree into consideration too as in my eyes, it's one of the most unbalanced ones
thanks for the compliment. Ironically, I think Priest/MM/Judge tree belongs to the top 5 most balanced role trees, so there is a big difference in thought there. I will explain why I think they are balanced:
-Priest, may seem the weakest on first sight, but this can summon a bullet from thin air, albeit only for werewolves. Very good role for crowd control early on (when there are multiple informers with conflicting info, you can prove who is wrong/right, only weakness is Fool).
-Marksman can also summon bullets from thin air, 2 even, and works against solos, but is really slow so not good at crowd control at all, I would rather call it a slower, less risky Gunner.
-Judge cannot summon bullets from thin air, because it needs to sacrifice voting phases for it to work, it's a fun role imo, but a bit slower than Priest and quicker than Marksman.
Marksman is best for quantity kills, Priest is best for crowd control and Judge is kind of in the middle. If you were to change anything here, I would at most make Priest be able to kill solos as well, but I am not sure if that is needed.
Roles that I also had on my shortlist, but didnt make the cut, were: Alpha werewolf, Lurker, Tough guy, Corruptor/Illusionist (they need to be a bit more distinct), Mortician, Split wolf and Pacifist.
Yeah priest is the outlier for sure, and my solution was to make it be able to kill solo/converted players to at least make it consistent with the other roles. I see your logic but I personally don't agree. Much love ❤️
I remember when Astronomer could roleblock everyone was pretty neat, well maybe its unfair for Solo Killer,
My opinions on these roles:
20-Storm Wolf-this role does absolutely nothing but ruin my quests and clearing messages each day,so i think a rework is needed,buffing it is unnecessary,nerfing it makes its base role better than it,
Rework: once per game at discussion you can use storm to shuffle everyones grid and shuffle names,if someone checked by an info role last night dies,you get information on all of the info roles in game,once per game you can create a cloud during the day making votes anonymous.
19-cursed-what this role does is bore players out of their mind and make lots of ppl flee,so we need a more fun mechanic along with a buff
Buff-wws know your role after day 6
Fun mechanic:while being a villager,you can once per game guess if you get turned next night,if you do,you turn into a jww instead of regular ww but u get revealed to a villager,if not,u lose this ability
QoL-wws cant turn you after info roles check the last ww and dont die,u can still be turned the night the last ww got checked
18-president-no changes i think this role is fine rn
17-Siren-needs a nerf and a buff strangely enough,so i’ll grant it a rework
Rework:you can siren 3 ppl n1 as before
N2 u can kill 2 ppl as before
N3 u HAVE to kill the last entranced person unless they are dead
Sirened players dont die if u die
N4 u only have 2 entrances and n6 u only have 2 entrances again
To compensate for this nerf
Every night after n4 u can check what team someones on
16-Analyst-i think its a fine role but im gonna give it a minor change
Minor change-checking 2 evils gives you a confetti on your screen if u didnt check those 2 ppl before
15-Seer-on odd nights you can check the exact role,on even nights you can check the type of role
Minor nerf imo but i dont think seer deserves heavy nerfs
14-Converters-nerfs to all 3
Bandit-u can only have 2 accomplices per game,cant have 2 at the same time,if both accos die u become a serial killer
SL-max sect members nerfed from 5 to 4
ZB- number of zombies nerfed from everyone to just 5 players at a time
13-BB-if u accidentally bomb ur cpl or insti cpl,then that player doesnt get bombed
Eg-16 is bomber,1 is their couple friend,they accidentally bomb 1 2 and 3,4 will now be bombed instead of 1,
If they bombed 1 5 9 and 1 is cpl of theirs,13 will now be bombed instead of 1,if they bombed 1 6 12,the reverse would happen and 4 and the other diagonals will get bombed
Other opinions in the replies
12-Wolfflu-nerfs:
U can only influence the same player twice per game
If you run out of players to influence u become a reg ww
To compensate for the nerf-day message will no longer say wolfflu influed a player
And 1 more buff-if wolflu is the last ww he can choose to turn a player if turning a player doesnt win wws the game
11-Grave robber
????i dont see no reason to change this role at all even if its unfun
10-sk-check 1 players aura every
Night
9-trapper-minor buff
Ur traps can also kill solos
8-FT
The players who get cards 1 second before ft dies wont get revealed
And upon death card reveals from ft are delayed for 2 phases
If u get card u have to use them in 2 nights
7-butcher
1 meat nerf
Has to give at least 1meat every night apart from n1
6-nwm
I see no problem
5-hh
If your target dies u become fool instead of hh
Rah im tired so i cant say actual good balances but i’ll try
4-Gambler-u have 1 village,3 ww,2 solo checks per game,if you guess one of these right,you dont lose a guess
3-confu
1 confusion nerf,cant confu n1
2-shaman-its skill based but every person in sb and i hate this role so a good buff would be
Shamaned person looks like anyone in ww team including sorcerer and wwf instead of just shaman
1-astronomer
Yeah it takes so much skill to tap a button and demolish the night,and also 500% more skill to tap a moon and a player just so skillful man
Anyways i will nerf this role to oblivion
5 nerfs
1st u cant vote int eh day u used new moon
2nd,rk can kill2 ppl during new moon
3rd,u die regardless of if the person you meteored is good or not
4th,nah imma make some actual balanced
Actual balance:3 nerfs and 1 buff
The nerfs:
Using new moon does not announce it to everyone so astro cant just clear themselves
Meteor rushing now reveals astros role
Astro cant talk in day chat after using new moon
To compensate the buff is
U cant be silenced the rest of the game
Man i hope i didnt mess up i am too tired
My opinion and ideas for each role
Storm Wolf - I agree
Cursed - allow Liberty cursed since it's just a villager role with an ability that helps no one but WWs, so they should be able to side them even when unturned. Either that or give it a complete rework but thats highly unlikely.
Siren: I think this is a great but one thing I want to add onto is it shouldn't notify players when they get entranced. That's another reason the entrance ability sucked.
Seer - I only disagree because moving it onto custom or crazy games doesn't fix the issue it just mitigates to be a custom or crazy game mode exclusive problem. So yes itd fix it on Sandbox but the issue IS still there. As well as that its highly unlikely it'll ever get any changes including moving it to be custom/crazy game exclusive. Having it mute the next day could work but that might make the role too complicated somehow so im not sure
Analyst - I agree but I don't get what you mean by "same aura as duos" That just sounds like Detective with extra steps.
Bandit/SL/Zombie - Don't let them convert anymore after a certain number have been turned throughout the game so they have to vote off remaining villagers or just make the game automatically end when village and converters are equal or more just like WWs. The XP nerf wouldn't stop people from giving in imo so the second option you mention is a more viable option.
Bomber - you should be able to choose to place bombs in a row yourself and also wherever you want (like arsonist) itll still have a timer and bypass protection as always but you can choose to put it in a row. You still place 3 bombs but two will explode at night and the other at your choosing during the day Before the voting phase.
Wolffluencer - yes it should. Not because mayor exists but because it can be a form of harassment.
Grave Robber - just like what I said about Seer the role itself is still the same but I will say I do agree because it does have its own game mode (Graverobber Mayhem I believe) and it does fit a lot more as a crazy game role but its very unlikely its going to be moved anytime soon.
Serial Killer - I agree it needs a buff or rework to make it more equal to its adv roles
Trapper - I agree somewhat that Trapper is stronger than BH which makes BH sometimes feel obsolete but I disagree in making it just role block since the whole gimmick of BH is to kill, and so does Flagger too. Maybe make Trapper wait a day to place another trap (or wait a day to activate traps etc)
Fortune Teller - the idea sounds cool but.. if villagers dont know they have cards but nonvillagers can reveal.. thats just.. outing themselves?? Is that the point?? Heres a idea but it's basically a rework soo
FT can give 2 players 2 cards, the players can give back cards to reveal the other player making their own cards obsolete or revealing themselves to make the other players cards obsolete. Those with obsolete cards will be revealed to the other player if the FT dies, if one of the players with cards dies the one with obsolete cards gets revealed to the FT. Only nonvillagers sees the FT when they are given cards. If none of the players reveal, both players' cards will go obsolete. The FT will not see who has obsolete cards. Idk just an idea its probably not balanced at all either lol 🤷♂️
Butcher - only 3 meats and maybe not being able to protect the same players every night idk
Night watchman - it being able to see if players are being protected as well as being able to protect both of them is too much. Its needs a nerf.
Headhunter - just make it completely solo e.g when their target dies they get a new one like you said. This is what I also think should happen with Cursed. But again no idea how that could be accomplished. As well as that wws/solo should also be candidates to be targets imo. If thats not possible I completely agree with just giving them a new target.
Gambler: I agree
Confusion wolf: pick someone to hide during the day only wws see their role when wws kill them it isnt affected by solo kills.
Wolf shaman: absolutely, but RL dying sounds funny and it could help kind of fix the "i visit 6 if i die its them" problem just say its shaman lmaoo
Astronomer: blocking the game for everyone doesnt sound like a good idea especially if it can be used day 2. New moon still needs complete rework imo. As well as that I'll mention it, Witch shouldn't be RRV🗿
Roles not mentioned that I think need balancing
Lurker: Can't kill when turned while all wws/solos etc are dead. As well as that since they can be turned by village too people usually can just outright claim lurker and ask to be shot with no repercussions and get easy confirmation 🤦
Alpha ww: needs a buff or something idkk man
Thats it lol
@@CircuitArcade lurker and alpha were on my shortlist too 😉
With the Analyst one, I meant that the Ana would just see what auras the two players have, but not who has which. And if youd check two players with the same aura, youd still get roleblocked the night after.
@hypostein ah alright I see
I also had opinions for bb:Since the arso got the buff that it bypasses prot,then why not give bb the buff that it doesnt have to put the bombs in a stright line
@@abtinshahidi3272 that would be too strong I think, but only a little bit
Hmm maybe make 2 of them be in a row but 1 of them can be putten anywhere
Hi hypo,a little late to the video,sorry,I agree on some parts like the analyst but some i didn't really agree with,but one thing I would change is the serial killer,I recently got a win but only because I was helped by the jww,it's very hard
I think the serial killer should be in the others sections and the actual replacement of the serial killer would be the assasin
Assasin:
Team:solo
Aura:unknown
Advanced role: cannibal,evil detective
Abilities: kill,mark
Description:kill one person every night,you can attempt to mark someone during daytime by guessing their roles,if you successfully guessed their roles,they will be marked. You can kill all marked players by not choosing to kill that night. After a kill like this you cannot guess any roles the following day.
I also have another role,I will appreciate some feedback,thank you!
Security guard:
Team:village
Aura:unknown
Base role: jailer
Ability:lock,active/passive
Description:during daytime,you can choose a person to lock and you choose to either be active or passive. locked players will be roleblocked as well as unkillable that night. Active:you can talk to the locked person and you will see if they're a ww or not(you cannot see if they are ww during an astronomer's new moon) ,if you or the locked person is attacked and you're not protected,you will die.
Passive: you and the locked person cannot die;however,you cannot talk the locked person,you will see who visited locked person
I like the Assassin's idea, I would recommend changing the name of it though since there is already an Assassin in the game (albeit exclusive to a crazy gamemode)
@hypostein hey hypo, thanks for the review,yes I was thinking the name,maybe something like "executioner" ,also what do you think about the security guard role in my comment?
@@Ambush_Doors4319 it sounds cool too, even though Im not sure if I like whether you can see their team
@@hypostein thanks for the review! I'll keep making these roles and if you want,you can review them,I will try to comment a new role on every video
Wolffluencer is one of the ww roles isnt useless all time
you mean its useless? It really depends imo if you play with competent players. With good teammates, this role is ridiculously op because you can tie votes relatively early (day 3 or 2 even sometimes) when you collab with the solos, with bad players, its nothing more than just one player getting wolffluenced, confirming themselves because they wont be a werewolf because of it, and the vote doesnt really change anything...
@hypostein it is helpful considering playmates for ww s. Yeah it is op when your playmate cares about game
Even though I disagree with some of the changes I still hope the developer listens to some feedback, almost none of the suggested changes get implemented
20 Storm Wolf- Blocking players in the player list also hides their chat messages that could be abused to find who's who, i think storm wolf should just be a custom game exclusive
19 Cursed- I don't think a role that can turn evil not being able to fakeclaim is bad so liberty cursed is needed
18 President- Yes
17 Siren- Yes
16 Seer- Yes
15 Analyst- Yes but analyst can still find two evils in the first night which i personally find unfair, i think analyst should also have the disadvantage of not seeing the auras if two players have the same aura, especially if you want it to be a detective or aura seer advanced role
14 Bandit/Sect Leader/Zombie- Making it so game ends when its village and converter left wouldn't fix the issue because if converters really wanted to give villagers the win they would just leave the last werewolf alive
13 Bomber- I don't think bomber needs a buff, bomber needs a rework, bomber being able to casually kill 3 werewolves or 3 important villagers is still unbalanced
12 Wolffluencer- Yes
11 Grave Robber- Yes
10 Serial Killer- Yes
9 Trapper- The main concept of the beast hunter role tree is being able to kill so i don't think it would make sense to just take that away from trapper
8 Fortune Teller- Yes
7 Butcher- Yes but I think butcher would still be better than doctor but if i said it should be 3 meats i would get killed by the butcher card owners :P
6 Night Watchman- I think night watchman being able to confirm other protectors is just a flawed mechanic and giving him double the protection is just a buff night watchman doesn't deserve
5 Headhunter- Yes, another problem with headhunter is a evil just counterclaiming headhunter's target, getting a successful mislynch and making headhunter win, that gives headhunter a lame win as well as punish the evil for counterclaiming but i have no idea how they could fix that
4 Gambler- Yes
3 Confusion Wolf- I think confusion wolf should just be reworked to be a skill based role instead of just clicking a button once
2 Wolf Shaman- Yes, btw gambler and violinist are already affected by wolf shaman
1 Astronomer- Yes
@@aptokro3005 I was unsure about gambler being affected, but vio I never even thought about. In that case, its not as bad as I thought it was, but still for Morti, Sheriff and Spirit seer, I defintely think it could be added. On 14: I do think its partially helping because even if you keep a werewolf alive, the werewolf will keep killing and as long as he hits unconverted villagers, its going to scare them/piss em off, so some villagers may be tempted to kill the werewolf or turn against the SL/Bandit/Zombie. Nonetheless, the easier solution is the xp reduction. Also for Butcher, Id also agree there, but lets stay realistic haha
All these suggestions are good. For seer, losing the ability to speak the following day after checking should be good enough. Aura seer can also be used to introduce new players. Also, what are your thoughts on alpha ww? I think it needs a buff
@@voltrax2ultra_volt802 alpha ww was on my shortlist as well, but just didnt make the cut
Why do you keep asking for Astronomer nerf?!?!?!?!?
It is a PERFECT role, because you can make all the werewolves cry in their night chat for half a minute and they will have a toxic taste for the remainder of the game, making it super EASY to find them! Astronomer is MY BABE! I TAKE IT WITH ME IN BED!!!
My buff idea: Make new moon also affect solo killer + remove the astronomer suicide if they kill a villager
@The_Commandblock Astronomer seems balanced, not strong as Witch can
truuuuuue i hope wolvesville do that
I'm a sandbox player, so im not sure what its like in ranked, but the balance is out of control, astronomer, flagger and tg basically tank your chances. It's so wild that they haven't changed astro yet, it would still be one of my favourites if no one could use abilities. no shadow wolf? probably screwed. Alpha? Again, probably screwed. most the time you just have to hope someone flees or throws. having all these newer advanced killing roles takes away from skill in the game, you can literally have 3 flaggers in one game. these roles are fun of course, but broken as hell when you just toss it in rrv, rather than have broad but balanced random categories. Also if your teammate takes swamp or storm you're basically screwed.
about suggestions for changes, a lot of them will get rejected because it needs to stay simple, its super unlikely sk or bomber will ever be changed.
I 100% agree, it is very unlikely that we see a change in this regard. I am not someone who can talk much about balance in ranked, but ranked has the HUGE advantage of not being stuck with role trees, meaning banning certain broken advanced roles is so much easier. For the sake of balance, the devs would need to either really rework the role tree concept and shove some roles out of role trees that can just not be balanced well (like grave robber) OR they should heavily change the roles themselves to almost be at the point of having clones with a little twist, which I won't be opposed to, but a large portion of the community would be.
I agree with most of these but one thing is confusion wolf. i dont think it's really strong except for night one, youre useless when villagers claim because youre confirming theyre not a ww. trickster has a better take on deception imo and is way better
@@krosalar trickster has the downsides of:
1- needing skill to get an actually good outcome, you cant just kill a villager at night and have them tricked, unlike confusion wolf, which has the ability done way easier
2- cant stack with solos
Hypo heyyyy nice vid
@@Stepokem ty 👋
I find most of these changes interesting. However I want to touch on the 3 conversion roles and the fact that these roles are inherently flawed as there will always be people who would rather be converted than win with village no matter how much exp they get which is very unfair.
I will say though I dislike bandit the most out of the 3 because of the fact it's like a hybrid solo. It can convert and kill consistently which I think makes it the best solo killer in the game for that reason. The converted player has a super easy time faking their own role as long as they aren't part of the Vigi or Med role tree, even then villagers not having that role in play is really bad. And they have the option to kill which just gives them more pressure. I dislike losing just because we have to watch out for what is basically a solo killer with an extra life, and if you accidentally vote out the accomplice first then you've already lost.
I understand bandit is supposed to be a beginner role of sorts for the conversion role tree, but it has way too much going for it that the only solo converters just don't have.
Zombie I think now might be the most balanced due to the other zombies being vulnerable to werewolves and they decay after 3 days, which gives them a little more to think about, involving more risk and reward. Sect leader will always be my favorite though because you can be converted and still play as the role you got (Something I dislike from bandit/zombie). Which really just makes it a separate village team with a president which overall I think is very unique.
However for bandit can't really suggest a rework because it would ruin the identity of the bandit, that's unfortunately just due to how flawed it's design is. But again conversion in a game like this will always be flawed and hard to balance. Sorry for the huge rant but I just have very strong feelings towards the bandit.
I think lucker needs to be buffed so that if he is a werewolf or a solo killer he can hold a knife and kill people every night like a serial killer and an instigator, Lucker when on the side of werewolves or solo killers when all teammates die and Lucker doesn't do anything he looks useless because Lucker is also ranked as hard not normal or easy.
Disagree
The quasi-vanilla nature is a *positive* design wise - the incentive for converting should be *at most* a positive material difference
Tbh, the evil sided lurker should only kill if all of their teammates die. In exchange, the lurker kills will announce to the village about which side the lurker is at.
For example: "The werewolf sided Lurker has killed (Player)"
Village lurker should be able to kill when they're the last one standing
Lurker not lucker
Making lurker a solo kill with ww team or rk is too strong imo,should only kill when their team dies,and they should steal the role of the weakest ww when they fie,or the rk when they die depending on the team they turned into(evil),and also i want to make lurker a bit more fun so maybe you dont see your teammates but can chat with them anonymously in the night chat bcz lurker cant even chat in night with their evil team
Roles I need deleted from this game
-Grave robber
-Storm wolf
-Zombie
-Trapper
-Bomber
-Mortician
-Journalist
Roles that NERF OR DELETE IT
-Astro
-Cww
@@SkyFWWO deleting is almost never the solution, but just having them as custom/crazy exclusive is something you could totally ask for, Id even say that all roles you listed could get that status.
Cool video. I agree with some of your ideas but not all:
- Siren’s tag ability is tha sole reason I find it fun so if it’s changed it’d ruin my personal favorite solo killer.
- I think any suggestion that’s “restrict xyz to Custom/Quick Games” is pretty lazy.
- Im against any changes to Wolf Influencer that don’t include nerfs to Mayor.
- Tha Fortune Teller idea was just awful. If villagers aren’t aware they have cards, it’d make anyone who uses them before FT death confirmed evil anyways, so what’s tha point in allowing evils to fake their reveal?
- Astronomers does need a nerf, but I hate tha idea of reverting new moon back to its previous state. It sucked back then too and more commonly just stalled tha games for longer than necessary. New Moon should be reworked entirely.
- Tha Zombie/SL/Bandit change I think is “meh.” In most cases if SL wins I’d say skill issue on wolves part. I think it’s cool to make it less rewarding to win with them, but I don’t think it’d change much (I personally don’t care about XP so I don’t know how much others do in this game).
- tha Cursed change is also bad, but it’s also just fundamentally a terrible role so it’s difficult to think of changes.
@@Im_Absolute some decent takes, but you kinda missed the mark with Fortune teller. The idea of that person was that evils cannot reveal a fake role, they can only reveal their real role. See it as a Loudmouth x 2, but with the caveat that none of the card owners is exposed evil before FT dies. If one of them is, they use the card as they are confirmed anyways and they can nullify the full ability of the FT, whilst if FT dies before any of that happens, it acts as double loudmouth.
Also moving roles to crazy/quick/custom: you can call it lazy, but there is a reason I suggested them because these roles are flawed for any form of 'decently competitive' play, whilst also being unique/easy to understand to receive an overhaul.
Now I challenge you with coming up with good reworks for roles like Grave robber and Seer, keeping them balanced and easy to understand or in the case of GR, crazy enough to be a gimmick for gamemodes like GR mayhem but also balanced enough for sandbox. 😉
@ ahh okay now I understand FT change. In any case, I still dislike it. I enjoy tha current version of Fortune Teller more than tha proposed one offered here.
As for changes to Grave Robber ~ I’m mostly fine with its current state, but I don’t think it should have a team until their target dies, forcing them to kill another player to “win.” Then they’d change its targets so you don’t become RV roles.
As for Seer, there’s been plenty of decent suggestions for how to change it, but tha one I favor most is “limit its number of checks” So that they only have 3 checks every game.
@Im_Absolute so about those:
FT, whether you 'enjoy' the current version or not doesnt mean that it is balanced and thats what this video is about. Fortune teller is arguably a very strong role now, much stronger than Loudmouth for sure, probably also than Bell-ringer, hard to compare with Avenger. Unlike all these three roles, its self-provable, which is not only bad role design when other roles in its tree are not, but also just a strong and boring gimmick for a werewolf type game. Self-provability can only really work if its really really hard to accomplish that or if its really weak other than that (like the previous FT actually). Currently, its much stronger than Loudmouth unless the player in control is a really bad player and lets the card owners use cards without pointing it out. Like it or not, but it should be weaker so that picking Loudmouth over FT is justifiable.
GR, I actually really like that idea, it gives the other players also a clue on what role they might have turned into since you are pushing more than now. Only concern I have is what will happen with Lurker, because that seems like a "boring GR" type of role then.
Seer, Id love to see a rework like that, but unfortunately, I dont deem it likely since the devs want it as a simple role. Simple roles are good for new players (hence my quick game reference).
@ @ yeah I’m aware tha devs seem apprehensive to tha idea of changing Seer (and Serial Killer) so it’s not… it’s not a “bad” idea to relegate to those modes. I just think it’s a lazy way for tha devs to handle it instead of making it more challenging for experienced players. It’s sensible though.
Ideally nothing would “happen” to lurker since you’re trying to attack other people with Grave Robber versus being attacked yourself as Lurker. People floated tha ideal of letting Lurker kill as last WW/RK and I’m cool with that happening too.
As for FT, I agree being self provable is a bad mechanic. However I think its current state is “fine” since it trades self probability with unreliable information. You can:
- Claim to not have gotten cards and leave Fortune Teller alive ~ framing them as Fool.
- falsify your card before you kill them.
I think it’s niche scenarios in which FT will be overly oppressive role and don’t think it’s worth changing until it becomes a common occurrence.
Grave Robber is one of my favourite roles, because the other options are just annoying af if you play them. But for the rest of your role changed I would agree👍
Grave robber is just a hard case to be fair. When Im in a casual mood, I like a GR game, but its just terrible for any balanced game. Also whether you like GR a lot or not doesnt mean it shouldnt get changed; most of the times you will play against a GR rather than play as it.
What do you think about the blight i think it’s kinda weak
aside from roles the guardian and ban appeal system need to change. I'm not buying stuff from a game who can ban me. they should hire guardians instead of volunteers and train them in customer service especially paying customers.
I got banned and got a 100$ refund from apple. hope they regret banning me
@@hu6706 isnt that how most games with micro transactions work?
bans in other games are rare
@hu6706 tbf, bans are a good thing as long as they are justified and spending money should not be a factor when it comes to deciding if you get banned or not... In fact, you should always consider potential bans, bankruptcy of the game and other factors that may revoke (your) access to the game. That is the unfortunate truth of spending money on virtual items, which includes nfts as well btw.
Sorcerer is really weak imo. Needs a buff
@@fen1540 it depends with who/against who you play whether its weak or strong honestly. Its weak against decent-good players, but really strong against bad villagers and as random ww.
Yes, the nerf of Wolffluencer must be to be applied because it's is too strong 💀
@@Electro_wov its not too strong, just annoying/toxic, or was it sarcasm?
@@hypostein my comment was not a sarcasm. I have the same opinion of this role, it's is too problematic and annoying.
You might want to check Better Wolvesville server, we are trying to balance all the roles there and run Discord WOV games online. I can send you a link if you are interested.
Flawless advertisement
@@Skylomor sure Ill check it out, cant promise I join a simulation, but would like to see the reworks
really? interesting
Wait what about zombie both of them?
@@oktawianl2052 might as well for Sect leader and Bandit
@hypostein oh yea but zombie is just to op and sl was just reworked
0:46 dylaptop doesn’t like the idea 🤣
I dont value his opinion as much haha, that guy has a lot of things I disagree with. Reading his role opinions is like watching comedy sometimes, but you gotta appreciate the weird guy 😂
Seer should be top Priority, literally ruins the game. I'd rather play with 2 astronomers than one seer, at least I can kite a claim as a wolf and give enough time for wolves to kill and plan
i meam they are reworking some roles so meybe they might actually do that
My opinon grave robber shouldnt be a strong or some support villager
For when the Joker rôle ? (Advanced fool)
What is the Joker role?
I personally think trapper needs a buff, it's weaker than flagger and can't kill SK/Canni (whereas flagger can redirect those attacks) and if rk attacks a trap, all traps get disabled without even being used
@@zentrix4u well Trapper has the advantage of guaranteeing a ww to die pr rk to have his attack blocked. Id say, if you want a buff, come up with a buff for BH too that still puts all roles on equal strength 😉
Here firstttttttt!!!!!!
wolvesville needs to be removed 👍
@@aljninja nahhh 🤣
Bring back werewolf online YEAHHH 🔥🔥🔥