FIA: "we need to make engines of about 30 cars running race circuit maybe once every two weeks carbon neutral" ... conceived while flying to an event in private 747.
It's an interesting effect, when organizations/people/companies try to reduce carbon footprint. It's good that they are trying, and needs to be done, but it then seems to highlight all the other aspects of the business that have carbon footprint that you normally wouldn't think about.
I think the idea is less focused on making the series more eco friendly and more focused on the development of green tech that will eventually be used in regular cars.
@@PG-20 I guess you never worked in motor sport… some people there fly whole 747 / 380 size planes just for one person, while they could do just perfectly fine in (much faster by the way) Gulfstream jet which uses fraction of the fuel.
We would have to go back to the 80's and earlier to do that,---when we were free to use the engines we want. I make a living modifying 2-stroke engines,---and I will be the last one. Anybody who thinks a 2-stroke engine is going to make any kind of a comeback---has been sleeping for the last 25 years.
Considering the amount of engineering potential we have today, I think 2 stroke engines still have a lot of life left in them. One of the recent advances is the new 2 stroke doesn't need pre-mix to run anymore.
@@Enonymouse_ …they haven’t needed pre-mix for a very long time…reservoir of 2-cycle oil…that mixed with the gasoline. As a kid I had a late ‘70s Yamaha 2-stroke motorcycle and never had to mix…just fill the oil reservoir.
2 strokes are incredibly good engines when engineered properly and their benefits are only enhanced by these awesome new E-fuels. Long live the 2 stroke engine!
@@Risnstonks Not really all that much. A good fuel injected 2-stroke can be more efficient than a 4-stroke. And since the oil is electrically mixed, the pollution caused by that oil is lowered. I haven't seen catalytic converters for 2-strokes, so it's hard to compare it with a 4-stroke.
A good 2 stroke is always gonna be better for the displacement, as long as fuel emission and economy aren't concerns. Plus it would make it very exciting as a lot of 2 stroke development has halted so it would be amazing to see what would happen with 2 strokes with F1 money thrown at it. Shame we won't see it
@@Matthew-yc6nx no, for a 2 stoke that is run for the same amount of time as a 4 stroke, the 2 stroke will have roughly twice the amount of power stokes, meaning almost twice the amount of fuel used
Me, a 2stroke Supermoto daily driver: "You're absolutely right it does!" Nothing beats arriving at work smelling like a 2stroke, it's like natural cologne, but for real man.
Detroit diesel 2 strokes also had an oil sump, a pressurized intake via blower and exhaust valves. And they were some of the most prolific diesel engines for there time(and sound wicked too)
@@mayorwrenchmcgnome hell yea, I work on a oil well servicing rig, the one I work on now has a detroit 60 series but the first rig I worked on had a non turb 8v71 and I miss that sound. The 60 series is a really good, basic reliable Power Plant (sounds good, pretty much just loud turbo noises, we all wear hearing protection on the job site so a service rig dosent have much for a muffler so it's pretty loud but it has no personality like the 8v71 and such do)
As diesel two-stroke engines work very differently to petrol two-stroke engines, you really could create an F1 two-stroke engine if it uses the two-stroke cycle used by diesel trains. (Hint: it uses a looooot of forced induction and forced exhaust) Ferrari didn't remotely do it first. :)
Jeremiah: "Ferrari designs two stroke engine almost 30 years ago" Me : "ah, yes, back in the 70s, the golden age---" Jeremiah: "Back in 1994" dammit I'm old
It’s time to introduce the Diesel engine I guess. For fuel, just use frying oil from Mc Donald’s and all the other places that fries stuff. The whole track would smell fries and it would be awesome
At this point the FIA is so stringent in its regulations, that a different, less-restricted, open wheel Motorsport class that could be used for engineers to go all out in all areas would be more interesting than what F1 has become.
And who would be funding this “balls out” engineering approach? Who is paying for that beryllium alloy engine? Who is paying for those two dozen aero-plasticity winglets? And….so on. The answer is: NOBODY. Formulas exist in racing for a reason mate. So you have an “interesting” formula on paper but no money to build it. Nice one mate. I guess you could transform the drawings in to CGI and use an existing gameplay engine to develop an esports thing. Or you could just have a wank and play Forza on your Xbox.
@@Lailas776 it would definitely be grassroots like you’re saying, but you have to look where formula 1 has come from How did it start. Also, a lack of massive funds would breed cost effective innovation. And the lack of regulation would allow more routes to be used.
One in two diesel locomotives in the US built since 1939 used a two stroke diesel with forced induction via a roots blower or turbo (with clutch so that it operates as a radial supercharger at low RPM to keep scavenging going), direct fuel injection, sump lubrication and exhaust ports. And in the 10 thousands of these engines were exported or powered ships and stationary equipment. They were made by a GM division called EMD and are still in production up to this day, and the engines have evolved a lot since 1939 with variable geometry turbo's and EFI, but are still based on that original design from 1939!
12:00 I think you mean to say, "Ferrari solved the problem by copying Diesel engine Technology from 1938!" The only difference here between a Detroit Diesel, and the F134 is displacement, and Fuel type lmao.
I'll say this, I'm fairly confident the engineers working for F1 will overcome a majority of the issues with the efficiency of a 2 stroke engine. Given enough money and time, these guys have performed miracles us silly UA-cam watchers could only dream. They'll awe us all with their ingenuity.
I also wonder if they'll eventually quit trying to make it tech relevant to road cars. We all know the future of performance is electric, so either F1 will go electric to stay relevant to that, or they'll just say screw it and stick with the loud visceral combustion engines fans love without trying to relate it to road cars that don't use them anymore.
@@quillmaurer6563 that's pretty presumptuous to say that the future is electric when currently, they both have significant drawbacks. Every infrastructure is based on a liquid based fuel right now and it's not easy to just turn a wrench and install plugs when most of them are proprietary. It would take decades to switch the infrastructure to all electric. That's why hybrids are a more viable option.
@@tt7hvn idk if you noticed, but electricity is, literally everywhere. Hybrids are dumb, expensive battery yet still expensive to maintain the ICE engine.
@@sebastianflynn1746 idk if you know anything about how electricity works but you can't just plug an EV into a wall socket. ICEs are not expensive to maintain, lol. They're expensive to maintain if you own an F1 engine. ICE laughs in Honda engine longevity. However, I'll give you this, if you literally know nothing about engines they're not expensive to maintain. If you have to pay someone every time you need an oil change, just turn in your man card. Both vehicles will need maintenance regardless of the power source. They'll both need alignments, tire rotations, bushings will wear, suspension will deteriorate, the engine is just a component of a vehicle. It's become so accepting that vehicles are disposable....just throw it away and buy another one. I take pride in making mine last given it's age. Because hey, it's cheaper to maintain it than buy something new 🤷
Your not “donating” at omaze. Your playing an online lottery with extremely out of proportion odds of winning and in the end only a tiny bit of your money actually goes to help. The majority goes straight to omazes pockets. That’s a really shady company y’all are partnered with there.
Why are people acting all Gotcha about raffles lmao.. of course all the failed 5 to 100 $ buy ins go to the organizer. But the trade off is you play the odds with $5 to win a $80k car without having the burden of putting up 80K , same thing with princess Margaret
Id love to see a 2 stroke, 3 cyl (6 piston) turbocharged, opposed piston Achates engine, powered by liquid hydrogen or carbon neutral synthetic fuel with a beefed up ERS deployment. I could imagine them being mounted boxer style for low COG, retaining their stressed nature rather than employing a spaceframe, revving at insane RPM speeds with no valvetrain to worry about and being very durable to the point of 2-3 engines per season. It'd represent something quite useful to the future car industry in developing H2 or synthetic fuel.
(Sorry, late.) Sounds like the opoosed engines on WWII US submarines. Still using them on nuclear subs, too. (Auxilliary engine.) Fairbanks- Morse 38 81/8. steve
true however an opposed cylinder 2 stroke free valve engine with scavaging blower and separate forced induction with direct injection is far more complex but in theory efficiency increases are huge as are power per liter.
@Bob Watters I've literally been to multiple formula 1 races and indicar races and they both use V6s and sound great. not the same obviously but still amazing
there's already a 2 stroke supercharged production engine that existed, it was first made in the early 40s, sounds like Ferrari copied some cues from the old Detroit diesels that were 2 strokes
Well, the Ferrari engine really was a measily excuse for a 2 stroke engine. I mean, look at the power it produced, every GP500 2 stroke would have outclassed it by a long shot.
@@mandernachluca3774 Yeah the supercharger in the Ferrari/diesel design creates a lot of parasitic loss, adds weight, and complexity. At that point you might as well just make a four stroke.
In 1980, a number of Yamaha Bike Race engineers were seen at Ferrari. It was denied at the time, but has since been admitted. You mentioned that less power will be required from the IC engine and more from the electric side. That will be the death knell for F1. No-one likes the sound of the current V6 turbos and most would welcome a return of the best sounding F1 engines, the V10s.
"Clean" 2 stroke engines have been around for decades... as diesels. The Commer Knocker was a flat 3 cylinder 6 piston opposed design from the 1950's, and the Detroit Diesel 2 strokes powered trucks for over 50 years. Cummins is developing a 1000bhp, flat 4cyl 8 piston opposed, twin turbo, supercharged diesel. These designs could easily be adapted to petrol, and Koenigsegg's Free Valve tech would make them crazy efficient with clean exhaust.
I'm interested in these 2 stroke improvements making their way into hybrid vehicles. Using electric for low end torque to supplement an efficient, high rpm, easily produced engine would make a lot more sense than adding electric motors to a hellcat (which will be coming).
Unlikely. Two strokes probably won't pass emissions. They're so against 2 strokes, the largest two stroke you can drive on the street legally is 80cc (.08 liters) IIRC.
@@trashbandit2449 and the epa has cracked down so hard on small engine manufacturers in the last decade or so. the reason why people have so many problems with carburetors now is because the passages are so small to limit fuel consumption and emissions. then you add fuel that pulls moisture out of the air. and things get clogged. there's just a huge push for everything to go electric. we'll see silent F1 races before too long.
@@anester1866 already have E1. Formula 1 has already gone to smaller engines, no way were ever going to v10 or 12, and definitely not 2 stroke. They switched to turbo 6 because it's more relatable with the car market,since they're owned by car companies. To go two stroke... almost every manufacturer on earth would also be powered by a two stroke, and with environmental regulations, that can't happen. Personally I'm not going to waste my time supporting bringing two strokes into the market, too busy trying to get people to keep gas engines in general around. Everyone wants electric, they don't realize that some of us want more than just transportation. Ban the EPA
Hybrid is the future, EV is wishful thinking hopes and dreams. Technology trickles down from aerospace, aeronautical and F1. Currently non of the above are EV with zero future of them becoming solely EV. Technology just isn't there, probably a century plus away. People forget EVs have been around before IC engines. They're not efficient, safe or relatively cheap to make. Every EV made is done at a loss, please understand that's not how a successful business is run. That's big government talking.
I mean it would be badass to have a c9 two stroke i don't think it would move cause the only cars in the world are two strokes im not meaning to be a downer but im not sure about two stroke c9
The craziest thing is, as a kid when I learned about how Detroit Diesel 2-strokes worked, I wanted to take that architecture shrink it down and make an F1 engine.
@@thatboomhauerguy5601 what peaked my interest in them was in the early 80s my Grandpa took a 4-53 and swapped it into a 1978 Dodge W200 with a 2 speed rear end.
They can for sure design and improve 2 stroke to make way more efficient and powerful than anything before it and actually prove the theoretical projections comparisons to 4 strokes
When he said "almost 30 years ago" and presented a date of 1994 I was like "pfft no way". I was born in 1993 and im.....almost 30! shit hit me hard. Subscribe to Donut for your daily dose of reality.
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I am yet to find out who the boss is. I am wishing for everyday in donut media reality show from behind the scenes. (Yes, my life is this empty and sad.)
You forgot to mention 2 stroke engines have issues with heat dissipation, because they have a combustion phase every time the piston is at TDC. A 4 stroke has a 'cool stroke' on the intake stroke when there is no combustion taking place. This effectively cools the piston crown, cylinder and valves. This also increases efficiency and the longevity of the engine. This issue also effects Wankel rotary engines, their combustion chamber sees no 'cool stroke' either, which is why rotary and 2 stroke engines exhaust manifold and tail pipe is always extremely hot, and also why they have issues with cooling.
In the dirt bike world, you will almost never see a 2 stroke bike over heat, but you see 4 stroke bikes over heat all the time, and people have to add fans to the 4 stoke radiators to help cool the bike down. Same sized radiators on both types of bikes... Just sayin..
Two stroke engine needs half of the fuel of the 4 stroke engine. Because every time when piston goes down its making power, in exhaust and intake piston is free fire, but all forces are applied
nope you are wrong. The oil burnin trick was done by every engine manufacturer of current F1. Ferrari most likely used to relatively low refresh time of the fuel sensor to burn extra fuel between its refresh cycles.
fun fact: you can drastically change a 2 strokes power band even with the same expansion chamber by just using spacers before the expansion chamber. a longer pipe will pull harder down low and a shorter pipe will pull harder up high. i believe its due to the fact that the shorter pipe gets the pressure back to the exhaust port quicker hence holds the air fuel mix in better at higher rpms, the same logic applies the other way. when at low rpm and the piston takes longer to move up and down, the longer exhaust will have a delayed pressure wave holding in the air fuel mixture better when piston speed is lower. just my 2 cents
@Bob Watters what are you talking about every serious dirt bike manufacturer still makes 2 strokes. they died because they stink and if your pump goes out your engine eats itself also no one wants to rebuild their engine every 10 hours
Which I don’t understand since with a separate piling system, direct injection, and a blower like an old Detroit I don’t see how it would make anymore emissions than a 4 stroke engine
@Bob Watters they are still alive, a friend of mine bought a New 2020 two stroke just this year. The thing is all full of emission stuff. Gotta take that out….These things need to smoke.
As a qualified mechanic you explained it way better than my college teacher. Should be doing education videos for real mechanics. With your teachings young mechanics would be eager to learn and be well informed. Great job 👏
A perfected 2 stroke would make more sense for hybrid electric vehicles as it would have the highest power to weight which would mean the vehicle would be lighter and the engine will take up less space
@@afhostie Nope. The oil burning can't be avoided with a rotary like it can with a 2 stroke. That alone kills them. Rotaries also produce much more heat due to friction, meaning they're less efficient.
That's music to my ears. My first bike was a two-stroke Moto Beta. Next was Yamaha. But the advantage of the 4-stroke is that it has better power in the lower RPM range and that is probably why Honda's 100cc engines did so well. Ok, this is back around 1969/70. We were so free then.
Would've been cool to hear about some more modern cleaner 2 strokes like what BRP does in etec engines. Oil injection, Reed valves, an turbo 2 strokes from the factory. They're doing pretty cool stuff. They also make the only 2 stroke outboards anymore (I think)
@@GT-mn3bx ya know when you said 2.5 I thought you meant the old Black Max that everybody tunes lol. You mean the ProXs…!? Yea they still make those …. Just very few.
@@gixxerhoff7502 No.Those are the consumer outboards. The 2.5 Offshore and 2.5 Drags from Merc High Performance 300 HP Stock 9K RPM running Premix. I have 2 Drags on the transom of my DCB Mach 26. In modified form 450 HP at 11,500.
I'd like to see a engine designed like the old Detroit diesel engines, 2stroke diesel, with valves, 2-4 valves per cylinder, the intake is at the bottom of the cylinder, and they scream when you get on the throttle! Just imagine one with a better cam, bigger valves, ported cylinder sleeves, running a huge intercooler, with about 60psi boost, with a light weight crank rods and Pistons, a light weight block and head, using the most efficient supercharger, plus dual compound turbos, like a 8-92, =92 cid x8, Nearly 750cid, even a hotrod version of a 6-v71 or inline 6-71 , 71cid per cylinder! Running 4-6 bar boost with cool air! Maybe make a gas, or nitromethane/methanol version, direct injected , a 4340 crank , titanium rods, light weight forged Pistons, a light weight billet flywheel, a light weight timing chain to replace the heavy gears, it's only $500k to get started, maybe a 24v-92! 24cylinders at 92cid each cylinder! 😎, And that only the next to largest engine, they also have one over 100cid per cylinder, of two stroke diesel power,!!
When talking about 2-stroke engines, one must clarify the distinctions between a crankcase scavenger design from a forced induction design. Engines in 2-stroke motorcycles and weed wackers all use crankcase scavenging. Engines like large diesel buss engines (Detroit diesel) are 2-stoke that use large blowers/supercharges, often paired with turbo chargers, to scavenge the exhaust out of the cylinder with out using the underside of the piston for scavenging.
I thought about this as well. This engine design uses a wet sump, transfer port induction, a blower and direct injection. It also ads a simple barrel valve to the exhaust port to allow for asymmetrical exhaust timing (can close exhaust port early enough on the up-stroke to allow time for the fuel to atomize before the spark, but then open the exhaust port early enough on the downstroke to allow the cylinder to clear out before the fresh charge of air comes in. Keeps the simple construction of the 2 stroke, and ads only a simple barrel valve shaft down one side of the engine. Would save a LOT of weight on a V-6 or V-8 engine, and with no reciprocating parts pushing against springs, the exhaust barrel valves would be very reliable and require relatively little energy to operate. Further, this design would save space by making the expansion chamber un-necessary. Video is 3D printed mock-up. Roots type blower would be better at low revs than centrifugal blower shown, due to the pressure of a centrifugal blower rising with the square of the speed. ua-cam.com/video/5s3OJUyJJJs/v-deo.html
@@olileoli2788 yes. That's the point. A rotary will never be on the road with modern emissions regulations. A 4 stroke would be too heavy for a real Rx. But a 2 stroke....
Toyota did this in the 1980s using a traditional head. It needed a very capable ECU direct injection and a supercharger. It worked but it was stupidly complex expensive unreliable and thirsty. It didn’t solve any problems they had at the time. Also the power density was 50% higher not 100% as expected
Engine tech in the snowmobile world has been moving towards that setup for a while, and we're now starting to see direct injected turbo two strokes from the factory. I always thought turbo two stroke sleds would always remain an aftermarket novelty, but now you can get one off the Polaris dealer's show room floor!
Large capacity high HP 2 strokes have been around for a long time. Outboard Marine Corporation produced 3.5 litre V8 2 strokes for the F1 Powerboat series in the early 80's. They were producing north of 500hp over 40 years ago. The sound they made running at 9k to 10k rpm was incredible, Whilst I'm sure you're right and it will never happen, it would be amazing to see what a modern 2 stroke built with modern materials and techniques and an F1 budget could achieve!
Do you live under a rock? The Rotax voice coil direct injection 2-stroke engine has been used by Skidoo for more than a decade to power their snowmobiles. They even make a turbo-charged version. Up until about a year ago Evinrude was producing the E-TEC 2-stoke for their outboard motors
My father worked for Chrysler at the Huntsville Alabama plant as a electrical engineer. Back in like 88-89 they had a "Open House" where you could see airbags being blown up with slow motion high speed video of them, new cars, electronics of all sorts, and several prototype cars. One of them was (I kid you not) a prototype Dodge Shadow 2 stroke turbo. Don't ask me how, why or anyway how it all worked, as I know how 2 strokes work and at the time I was just a kid and my dad remembers the car and powerplant but doesn't remember anything about how it was setup. So Chrysler was playing around with 2 strokes as well back in the late 1980's.
Check out the Rotax E-TECH - 800cc and 160 bhp. Skidoo snowmobiles use them with less weight and better fuel mileage than equivalent (1200cc) four stokes. Fuel is injected after the ports have closed so there is no smell. Rotax even have a turbo version for use at high altitudes. Exhaust has a variable height valve to give a wider power range. Inlet has reed valves to prevent blow back. Fuel is not run through the crank case so less oil is needed to keep the bottom end happy. Its also possible (with a small blower) to have a wet sump where air and fuel never goes into the crank case. This works well with V and Cross format engines.
The oil-injection bit is the least-high-techy bit of KTM's setup (and pretty mainstream from the 70s until most two-strokes left the market throughout the 90s). The means of *feeding the fuel*, however, is the Big New Deal here. What this means for two-stroke engines in general remains to be seen.
@@fastballfilms4214 - Burn only fuels derived from above-ground sources, and the car is carbon neutral. Just like you when you breathe; as long as you’re not eating fossil fuel, your body is carbon neutral.
@@fastballfilms4214 Dont care abt carbon restrictions in F1 they make little difference to the world. Implement them on road cars but keep that shit away from racing. I just want good sounding engines in F1.
@@bottomtext593 It does make a difference. Race cars are years ahead of market cars. Of course eventually the market implements some of the tech they use when the cost to make it is more affordable. If F1 keeps using non renewable energy, what good would that be for the market? I think it would only slow the transition to green energy and reduce public market innovation in the future.
Awesome vid man, I am an old " stressing old" 2 stroke performance guy . Now direct injection, super charged induction, oil sump and valves in the head you are describing an old Detroit diesel system LOL. But the fact of 2 strokes, there is 25-30% less torque compared to a 4 stroke, a less major fact these days is the RPM, 4 strokes have almost the same rpm as the 2 stroke but given the 2 stroke weight is lighter. But torque is the king, hp is the queen. The king moves the mountain in one shot very slow, the queen takes small chunks faster, but the mountain gets moved with in the same time frame. rpm X torque divided by 5252 = hp. Two strokes need to develop a little more torque instead of relying on weight and RPM.
Just when I'm starting to think "god I've lost him..." there's always this "AHA!" moment when everything is falling into the right place. Awesome explainer, thanks!
when i was in school learning to be a car mechanic i designed an engine that was two-stroke with direct injection that won't scavenge exhaust in the intake its not so hard to design i was 16 then
Balakai8, It's been done, it's called the Rotax ETEC direct injection 2-stroke engine that Skidoo has been using to power their snowmobiles for over a decade.
Your main description is of the common "Loop Scavenged" 2 cycle design, and the Ferrari version with the supercharger, is just a hybrid version of the Loop Scavenged design. Detroit Diesel (aka GM Diesel Power 1937 - 1965) developed and used the "Uniflow" 2 cycle design in all their 2 cycle diesels in displacements of 53, 71, 92, 110 & 149 ci. per cylinder. The Series 71 engines (71 ci per cylinder / 4.25" x 5" B&S) were built from Jan. 1938 through Nov. 1995 - (57 yrs 11 mos). They also had a 51 series diesel (1951 - 1959) in 2 and 4 cylinder versions that were "Valveless", but were NOT scavenged by piston/crankcase pressure. Like GM's other 2 cycle diesels, they incorporated replaceable "wet" cylinder liners, however they had "timed" large air Intake ports at the bottom and three (3) large exhaust ports near the top. Intake & Scavenging air was supplied by a Roots blower, via a cylinder surrounding "air box" which was cast into the engine block and sandwiched in between upper & lower engine block water jackets, and completely by-passing the crankcase just like all the other 2 cycle "Uniflow" GM/Detroit Diesels. They (Series 71) had both 2 or 4 valves per cylinder - all exhaust, and an "air box" that was cast into the block and completely surrounds the lower 1" of the cylinder liner (replaceable) where the oval intake ports formed a complete circle in the lower portion of the cylinder liner. The intake air for scavenging and cylinder filling was slightly pressurized at approximately 4 psi on the "naturally aspirated" engines (with helical twist 3 lobe rotor Roots blowers), and at about 17 - 20 psi on the turbocharged versions (beginning in 1975), which had to blow through the roots blower(s), which were retained for starting and lower rpm throttle response. The Roots blowers were later modified and upgraded to two versions of bypass blowers (bypass & High bypass [marine]) to help eliminate the "bottleneck" of turbo boost trying to get past the blower lobes. The scavenging & fresh air intake charge Never went through the crankcase and the engines had fully pressurized oiling systems just like those of 4 cycle engines, including pressurized oil cooled pistons on their big Series 149 engines (5.25" x 5.25" B&S = 149 ci per cylinder / only "square" engine of the DD series). They were also Direct Injected using "Unit Injectors" where the fuel was metered and pressurized within each injector itself and rocker arm actuation via camshaft and short pushrods. In a small Uniflow designed gasoline (or whatever "sustainable fuel" they will burn) fueled 2 cycle developed for F1 (or whatever), they could easily replace the Roots type blower & turbo set-up with a suitably sized, Gilmer belt driven (toothed), or direct crank driven Centrifugal Supercharger to supply the air at starting rpm and all the way up to WOT (Wide Open Throttle)... a Far better and more powerful design than the Loop and Hybrid Loop (supercharged), scavenged 2 cycles commonly seen and known in gasoline fueled 2 cycle engines.
Yeah makes allot of sense for a hybrid, and the sound, even boring hybrid road cars could sound awesome.. Changing up everything we base ICE vehicles around could be a way to discover more efficient ICE systems too.
My trimmer has a four-stroke engine ... Edit: the Detroit Diesel ... 4-valve two-stroke, blower scavenged, old school at this point. The "blowers" have evolved to sit atop every NHRA nitro car.
I can only really talk from a motorcycle racing pov as I am more into bikes than cars. But the only two drawbacks from 2-stroke engines was when racing them was getting the air/fuel mixture right and they were more likely to seize if you ran them too lean. Hence why you always had your hand over the clutch all the time in case it seized and the back wheel locked. But they were quicker and the smell of a 2-stroke is just heaven.
Just recall that GM ran 2-stroke diesels in their class 8 trucks for many years, by using a roots supercharger to scavenge the cylinders clean of exhaust and boosting cylinder pressure during the upstroke. And they didn't MIX oil with the fuel; had a conventional oil pan and oil pump to keep things slippery. Personally, I couldn't care less if F1 was discontinued all together. Forever. Gone. Even NASCAR is more exciting to watch, and that isn't a compliment. Racing today is so regulated and politically correct, it's boring.
Time to watch MotoGP motorcycle racing. Factory prototype bikes with over 300 hp, and lean angles greater than 60 degrees. Top speed? 350 km/hr (215+ mph). Several different brands and riders could win each race, so it's very competitive, and exciting to watch.
The engineers didn't because it's not allowed by section 5.9.2 of the technical regulations, where it states: "Variable valve timing and variable valve lift profile systems are not permitted." On top of that they probably want to not increase the complexity since a current F1 power unit costs somewhere between 10-11 million USD, whereas the car costs roughly 13-14 million USD (with the PU included).
Two strokes were at home on the water in outboards where the extra power pulse helped push the prop through the water resistance. GM Detroit Diesel 2 strokes used a Rootes blower to scavenge the cylinders, it pushed fresh air into the cylinders to push out the exhaust.
They just need to give him a 20 minute video to do whatever he wants. Just once. Characters, techno dancing in whatever the fuck he wants to wear, bald caps, everything.
Hey, design your own. It's fairly simple. I went to tech school for motorcycle mechanics, and full gas to 2 stroke snowmobiles, can be an efficient way to start. Use a bore and stroke formula to compute your power by RPMs, then assume changing the location of the spark and add an oil ring, then fuel computer formula, top it off with Dyno and print time for your total cost for rip the track speeds.
2 stroke engines are for generators or AC converters for electric motors. No battery's so low weight, no loss of range or power etc. Just big gas powered drills stuck on a hot wheels.
Completely unrelated to whether it has a battery. It makes power on every down stroke instead of only half like a 4 stroke. This presents scavenging (exhaust out, fuel air mix in) challenges because there is no down stroke not making power to have a negative pressure and pull in fresh air and fuel. Many small engines use the back side of the piston going down to create a positive pressure to fill the cylinder. This is why they have no crankcase oil, and use mixed fuel and oil. With a supercharger or a turbo, this is not needed.
FIA: "we need to make engines of about 30 cars running race circuit maybe once every two weeks carbon neutral" ... conceived while flying to an event in private 747.
It's an interesting effect, when organizations/people/companies try to reduce carbon footprint. It's good that they are trying, and needs to be done, but it then seems to highlight all the other aspects of the business that have carbon footprint that you normally wouldn't think about.
Isn't F1 a platform for carmakers to build technologies that end up in production cars ?
How else do you expect for F1 to move around? On a 30 mph solar aircraft?
I think the idea is less focused on making the series more eco friendly and more focused on the development of green tech that will eventually be used in regular cars.
@@PG-20 I guess you never worked in motor sport… some people there fly whole 747 / 380 size planes just for one person, while they could do just perfectly fine in (much faster by the way) Gulfstream jet which uses fraction of the fuel.
“Can a weed whacker power an F1 car?”
Honda: “Oh you are ON!!!”
Honda be more like POWER OF DREAMS
Honda: "Hold my Nitrous"
wym they've been using weed whacker engines for a while
i don't see the joke :/
Is Honda our lord and saviour of F1?
A Honda weedwacker could do it if it had VTEC
F1 should use Rotaries. Just imagine 20 4 Rotors screaming down Monaco
And break down after every race unless its a mazda 787B
F1 engines were always designed to break down after every race.
Or a 787b would be great
with CAT, NOx trap, and particulate filter on a trailer behind it :) (due to size required for the amount of pollution produced by wankel engine)
@@pipapo4993 no they're not, changing engines results in a last place penalty for the race.
Knowing F1, I'd like to see what they could do with a two-stroke. I think it will be impressive, bar none.
We would have to go back to the 80's and earlier to do that,---when we were free to use the engines we want. I make a living modifying 2-stroke engines,---and I will be the last one. Anybody who thinks a 2-stroke engine is going to make any kind of a comeback---has been sleeping for the last 25 years.
Considering the amount of engineering potential we have today, I think 2 stroke engines still have a lot of life left in them. One of the recent advances is the new 2 stroke doesn't need pre-mix to run anymore.
They'll be like 800cc turbo's, still limited to around 20krpm due to materials.
Coal powered steam engine, that's the future.
Hybrid steam power with electric KERS of course. We wanna be ecological.
@@Enonymouse_ …they haven’t needed pre-mix for a very long time…reservoir of 2-cycle oil…that mixed with the gasoline. As a kid I had a late ‘70s Yamaha 2-stroke motorcycle and never had to mix…just fill the oil reservoir.
2 strokes are incredibly good engines when engineered properly and their benefits are only enhanced by these awesome new E-fuels. Long live the 2 stroke engine!
These will sound amazing...
2 stroke cause a lot more pollution though
@@Risnstonks External scavenging 2-stroke like on 2 stroke diesel doesn't burn any oil.
@@Risnstonks Yes and no. There more efficient in some aspects so it all kinda evens out
@@Risnstonks Not really all that much. A good fuel injected 2-stroke can be more efficient than a 4-stroke. And since the oil is electrically mixed, the pollution caused by that oil is lowered. I haven't seen catalytic converters for 2-strokes, so it's hard to compare it with a 4-stroke.
The F1 fans be like :
Look how they have massacred my boy.
Hope its a 2 stroke v8 or a v10 that would be awesome
@@thepurdychannel8866 2 stroke V10 is a new one
car fans are just scared of change. F1 was constantly been changing, this is no different
@@thepurdychannel8866 probably a V4 or something like LMP cars
It’s going to be a lot faster my 60cc 2 stroke makes about 19hp
I can just imagine me turning on the TV on a Sunday and hearing the sound of 20 dirt bikes😂
it's lights out and away we vreeeooouuuumm💦💩💨!
Kawasaki and Suzuki have entered the chat
20 fart machines
It will be just like supercross back in the day. This will be great! Lol
2 stroke evinrude e-tec. Never gets old. ua-cam.com/video/H09pebe0nBg/v-deo.htmlm17s
I finally understand why two strokes have a tuned exhaust. Thanks man!
@shad rokxx HAHA
Because the air inside sort of oscillates, you actually get a negative pressure wave helping pull out the exhaust as well, as I understand it.
A good 2 stroke is always gonna be better for the displacement, as long as fuel emission and economy aren't concerns. Plus it would make it very exciting as a lot of 2 stroke development has halted so it would be amazing to see what would happen with 2 strokes with F1 money thrown at it. Shame we won't see it
You watch 2strookestuffing,he is doing crazy stuff with 2strokes
2 strokes are already back. That’s why they cost so much extra
wouldn't fuel economy be improved with a 2 stroke as they have higher thermal efficiency?
KTM has continuously improved their 2-strokes as well as they've been improving their 4-strokes.
@@Matthew-yc6nx no, for a 2 stoke that is run for the same amount of time as a 4 stroke, the 2 stroke will have roughly twice the amount of power stokes, meaning almost twice the amount of fuel used
Jerry, regarding 2-stroke exhaust: "It also smells amazing."
Me, a fellow scholar: "You're goddamn right it does!"
Me, a 2stroke Supermoto daily driver: "You're absolutely right it does!"
Nothing beats arriving at work smelling like a 2stroke, it's like natural cologne, but for real man.
I love the sound and smell of a two-stroke.
@@Evolution_II in the morning heh
@@npne1253 Hell yeah!
Amen, brother! (I drive a Subaru 360 Sambar, btw)
Detroit diesel 2 strokes also had an oil sump, a pressurized intake via blower and exhaust valves. And they were some of the most prolific diesel engines for there time(and sound wicked too)
Nothing like a screaming Jimmy. I miss my old 8v71TA.
@@mayorwrenchmcgnome hell yea, I work on a oil well servicing rig, the one I work on now has a detroit 60 series but the first rig I worked on had a non turb 8v71 and I miss that sound. The 60 series is a really good, basic reliable Power Plant (sounds good, pretty much just loud turbo noises, we all wear hearing protection on the job site so a service rig dosent have much for a muffler so it's pretty loud but it has no personality like the 8v71 and such do)
I used to drive a old kennywobbler with a 12v92 you want to talk about a monster
Yes they sound like they are going 100mph and they're really going 12mph
6v53 screamers! Bring 'em back!
As diesel two-stroke engines work very differently to petrol two-stroke engines, you really could create an F1 two-stroke engine if it uses the two-stroke cycle used by diesel trains. (Hint: it uses a looooot of forced induction and forced exhaust) Ferrari didn't remotely do it first. :)
The Orbital fuel injection type that developed for cars in the 90s ended up used on Mercury Opitimax outboards,
Jeremiah: "Ferrari designs two stroke engine almost 30 years ago"
Me : "ah, yes, back in the 70s, the golden age---"
Jeremiah: "Back in 1994"
dammit I'm old
Dang, I still make that mistake sometimes.
How tho ?
@@Neojhun it happens. And then you go lay down
I was born 2002 and was thinking the same
@@v12-s65 well THAT makes me feel better!
I’ve learned almost everything I know about cars from donut media
How do you have over 100k subscribers bro
Me dos
I’d trust Chrisfix or Scotty Kilmer for actually useful information
Same
@@aviatordreams655 bought channel unlisted every video they had
Day 90 of asking Donut media to do either a Up To Speed or a Wheel house on the oil crisis
keep up legend
@@caramel_______9413 yeah sure... i totally believe you...
You got this sho
BURRRR! Heck yeah.
LET'S COMMENTO SO DONUT MEDIA CAN SEEYANO.
As an RC airplane enthusiast loved how this video displayed perfectly how they work as well how a tuned pipe can make them produce more power!
It’s time to introduce the Diesel engine I guess. For fuel, just use frying oil from Mc Donald’s and all the other places that fries stuff. The whole track would smell fries and it would be awesome
Literally going to a race would increase your cholesterol xD
An Detroit did the 2 smoke game along time ago hahah an stihl string trimmers have values an a plastic cam
@@mattbowser5274 what was this comment my brain hurts reading it
@@babybooon8811 try reading it again its not that hard
And it would also sell mroe fries, because everyone will feel the temptation of the smell of fries, make that much stronger with every new lap.
Anyone else die a little bit on the inside? when he said, “almost 30 years ago back in 1994”….I was born in 94 😭
Stop whining, i turn 40 this sunday...👴
Me too
I graduated high school in 1993.
My fleetwood was born in 94 and drives great you aint that old👍
I was already in the Army for 3 years.
At this point the FIA is so stringent in its regulations, that a different, less-restricted, open wheel Motorsport class that could be used for engineers to go all out in all areas would be more interesting than what F1 has become.
We don't need it. Street racing has become the thing F1 used to be. Everyone can build anything from any sort of car.
@@RazorSharp75426 except for the budget. That’s what it’s missing.
Agreed
And who would be funding this “balls out” engineering approach? Who is paying for that beryllium alloy engine? Who is paying for those two dozen aero-plasticity winglets? And….so on. The answer is: NOBODY. Formulas exist in racing for a reason mate. So you have an “interesting” formula on paper but no money to build it. Nice one mate. I guess you could transform the drawings in to CGI and use an existing gameplay engine to develop an esports thing. Or you could just have a wank and play Forza on your Xbox.
@@Lailas776 it would definitely be grassroots like you’re saying, but you have to look where formula 1 has come from How did it start.
Also, a lack of massive funds would breed cost effective innovation. And the lack of regulation would allow more routes to be used.
One in two diesel locomotives in the US built since 1939 used a two stroke diesel with forced induction via a roots blower or turbo (with clutch so that it operates as a radial supercharger at low RPM to keep scavenging going), direct fuel injection, sump lubrication and exhaust ports.
And in the 10 thousands of these engines were exported or powered ships and stationary equipment.
They were made by a GM division called EMD and are still in production up to this day, and the engines have evolved a lot since 1939 with variable geometry turbo's and EFI, but are still based on that original design from 1939!
"theres no separate system for lubrication"
2 stroke Detroit diesel: am i a joke to you!?
V12 2 stroke Detroit, efficiency, i think not
@@nicholasrichards5382 i never said efficient lmao
A 12v92 Detroit was no slouch.
@@nicholasrichards5382 The most efficient 2 stroke diesel engine is made by Wartsila-Sultzer.
@@Nickael7 The most efficient 2-stroke Marine Diesel engine:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%A4rtsil%C3%A4-Sulzer_RTA96-C
We need that, the way 2 strokes can scream would be crazy with a good exhaust!!!
The same way a scooter does as it goes 15mph down the street
2 strokes? Damn, 2 strokes would be so nice. I'll never underestimate a two stroke in the street, that thing is scary.
You dont need a good exhaust to let a two stroke scream
@@illegalopinions4082 Bro you have no idea how powerful 2 strokes can be
@@lennartsix6102 yeah but for it to also not sound like a pop can is stuck in the exhaust you need one.
4 strokes don’t completely separate their intake, and exhaust cycles. There’re is a thing called overlap. Which is actually very important.
@Elle Sea accidental overlap on a two stroke? You do realise this engine was designed with this in mind and it was not a mistake.
Wrong
@@grievuspwn4g3 Freevalve, Imagine that tech mixed with electric torque
@@grievuspwn4g3 it's not accidental lmao, it gotta mix to work properly
What is overlap? Can u explain in simple terms? I though an intake and exhaust phases in 4 strokes are happening separately?
12:00
I think you mean to say, "Ferrari solved the problem by copying Diesel engine Technology from 1938!"
The only difference here between a Detroit Diesel, and the F134 is displacement, and Fuel type lmao.
This is exactly what i thought. Its exactly like a detroit.
Donut: "Why F1 is Switching to 2-Stroke Engines"
Also Donut: "...And that's why F1 is not switching to 2-stroke engines"
Scroll back up and read the title again....
@@SteeveohRising Donut changes their titles all the time after releasing videos
@@SteeveohRising I see they've taken my comment to heart. Feels good to be seen lol
I'll say this, I'm fairly confident the engineers working for F1 will overcome a majority of the issues with the efficiency of a 2 stroke engine.
Given enough money and time, these guys have performed miracles us silly UA-cam watchers could only dream. They'll awe us all with their ingenuity.
I also wonder if they'll eventually quit trying to make it tech relevant to road cars. We all know the future of performance is electric, so either F1 will go electric to stay relevant to that, or they'll just say screw it and stick with the loud visceral combustion engines fans love without trying to relate it to road cars that don't use them anymore.
I have a feeling we’ll be seeing 2 stroke and even rotary hybrids on the road soon
@@quillmaurer6563 that's pretty presumptuous to say that the future is electric when currently, they both have significant drawbacks. Every infrastructure is based on a liquid based fuel right now and it's not easy to just turn a wrench and install plugs when most of them are proprietary. It would take decades to switch the infrastructure to all electric. That's why hybrids are a more viable option.
@@tt7hvn idk if you noticed, but electricity is, literally everywhere. Hybrids are dumb, expensive battery yet still expensive to maintain the ICE engine.
@@sebastianflynn1746 idk if you know anything about how electricity works but you can't just plug an EV into a wall socket. ICEs are not expensive to maintain, lol. They're expensive to maintain if you own an F1 engine.
ICE laughs in Honda engine longevity.
However, I'll give you this, if you literally know nothing about engines they're not expensive to maintain. If you have to pay someone every time you need an oil change, just turn in your man card.
Both vehicles will need maintenance regardless of the power source. They'll both need alignments, tire rotations, bushings will wear, suspension will deteriorate, the engine is just a component of a vehicle. It's become so accepting that vehicles are disposable....just throw it away and buy another one. I take pride in making mine last given it's age. Because hey, it's cheaper to maintain it than buy something new 🤷
Your not “donating” at omaze. Your playing an online lottery with extremely out of proportion odds of winning and in the end only a tiny bit of your money actually goes to help. The majority goes straight to omazes pockets. That’s a really shady company y’all are partnered with there.
Yep
That’s why I just did the free sign up for the thing lmao
Why are people acting all Gotcha about raffles lmao.. of course all the failed 5 to 100 $ buy ins go to the organizer. But the trade off is you play the odds with $5 to win a $80k car without having the burden of putting up 80K , same thing with princess Margaret
@@danthaman7777 gambling is bad already, but illegal gambling disguised as charity by a shady corp? That's just fuckinh yikes go hit vegas
@@anthonypowell2835 it pays to read lmao
Id love to see a 2 stroke, 3 cyl (6 piston) turbocharged, opposed piston Achates engine, powered by liquid hydrogen or carbon neutral synthetic fuel with a beefed up ERS deployment. I could imagine them being mounted boxer style for low COG, retaining their stressed nature rather than employing a spaceframe, revving at insane RPM speeds with no valvetrain to worry about and being very durable to the point of 2-3 engines per season.
It'd represent something quite useful to the future car industry in developing H2 or synthetic fuel.
(Sorry, late.)
Sounds like the opoosed engines on WWII
US submarines. Still using them on nuclear
subs, too. (Auxilliary engine.) Fairbanks-
Morse 38 81/8.
steve
"Adding a sump and valves introduces complexity", yea, but it's still less complex than a 4 stroke ;)
true however an opposed cylinder 2 stroke free valve engine with scavaging blower and separate forced induction with direct injection is far more complex but in theory efficiency increases are huge as are power per liter.
At that point, literally the only thing missing is the intake valves. So yes, but only barely.
"miss the sweet sound of F1" .. I've been missing it for 15 years XD
RIP V10 era.
Bring back V8s and V10s and V12s. The screaming high redline of these engine is unlike anything else I’ve ever heard
@Bob Watters I've literally been to multiple formula 1 races and indicar races and they both use V6s and sound great. not the same obviously but still amazing
there's already a 2 stroke supercharged production engine that existed, it was first made in the early 40s, sounds like Ferrari copied some cues from the old Detroit diesels that were 2 strokes
They also make snowmachine turbos and superchargers, which are two strokes
my thoughts exactly. EMD still make two stroke among others I imagine.
also I think they are blowers not superchargers because there is no real boost.
Well, the Ferrari engine really was a measily excuse for a 2 stroke engine.
I mean, look at the power it produced, every GP500 2 stroke would have outclassed it by a long shot.
@@mandernachluca3774 Yeah the supercharger in the Ferrari/diesel design creates a lot of parasitic loss, adds weight, and complexity. At that point you might as well just make a four stroke.
In 1980, a number of Yamaha Bike Race engineers were seen at Ferrari. It was denied at the time, but has since been admitted. You mentioned that less power will be required from the IC engine and more from the electric side. That will be the death knell for F1. No-one likes the sound of the current V6 turbos and most would welcome a return of the best sounding F1 engines, the V10s.
"Clean" 2 stroke engines have been around for decades... as diesels. The Commer Knocker was a flat 3 cylinder 6 piston opposed design from the 1950's, and the Detroit Diesel 2 strokes powered trucks for over 50 years. Cummins is developing a 1000bhp, flat 4cyl 8 piston opposed, twin turbo, supercharged diesel. These designs could easily be adapted to petrol, and Koenigsegg's Free Valve tech would make them crazy efficient with clean exhaust.
Ah yes, diesel, the cleanest of engine types.
@@thatangrygerman2076 "Clean" as in there's no mixing with the oil fumes of the crankcase, which they referenced in the vid as "dirty".
I'm interested in these 2 stroke improvements making their way into hybrid vehicles. Using electric for low end torque to supplement an efficient, high rpm, easily produced engine would make a lot more sense than adding electric motors to a hellcat (which will be coming).
Unlikely. Two strokes probably won't pass emissions. They're so against 2 strokes, the largest two stroke you can drive on the street legally is 80cc (.08 liters) IIRC.
@@trashbandit2449 and the epa has cracked down so hard on small engine manufacturers in the last decade or so. the reason why people have so many problems with carburetors now is because the passages are so small to limit fuel consumption and emissions. then you add fuel that pulls moisture out of the air. and things get clogged. there's just a huge push for everything to go electric. we'll see silent F1 races before too long.
@@anester1866 already have E1. Formula 1 has already gone to smaller engines, no way were ever going to v10 or 12, and definitely not 2 stroke. They switched to turbo 6 because it's more relatable with the car market,since they're owned by car companies. To go two stroke... almost every manufacturer on earth would also be powered by a two stroke, and with environmental regulations, that can't happen.
Personally I'm not going to waste my time supporting bringing two strokes into the market, too busy trying to get people to keep gas engines in general around. Everyone wants electric, they don't realize that some of us want more than just transportation.
Ban the EPA
Hybrid is the future, EV is wishful thinking hopes and dreams. Technology trickles down from aerospace, aeronautical and F1. Currently non of the above are EV with zero future of them becoming solely EV. Technology just isn't there, probably a century plus away. People forget EVs have been around before IC engines. They're not efficient, safe or relatively cheap to make.
Every EV made is done at a loss, please understand that's not how a successful business is run. That's big government talking.
@@trashbandit2449 2 strokes already pass emissions. Bought my son a 2021 TE250i, fuel injected and oil injected and yes EPA compliant.
Last time I came this early I earned the nickname, "two stroke bloke"
Nice
Just imagine the C9 Corvette as a mid engine v8 supercharged 2 stroke. Woah.
Chevy try a 2 stroke in-line 6 in the 80s, would have been cool to try. Surely better than the old Saab 6 cyl.
@@patrickgrenier4331 everything saab with a turbo is good
Or just get a 2 Stroke Dirtbike and spank 4st bikes with almost twice the displacement
C9 will be hybrid and all electric cars only.
I mean it would be badass to have a c9 two stroke i don't think it would move cause the only cars in the world are two strokes im not meaning to be a downer but im not sure about two stroke c9
The craziest thing is, as a kid when I learned about how Detroit Diesel 2-strokes worked, I wanted to take that architecture shrink it down and make an F1 engine.
Well now I'm picturing an F1 car with an old 4-53T and it's amazing.
@@thatboomhauerguy5601 what peaked my interest in them was in the early 80s my Grandpa took a 4-53 and swapped it into a 1978 Dodge W200 with a 2 speed rear end.
@@thatboomhauerguy5601 There's a guy on UA-cam with an F250 or F350 with one
Hey that 1930’s design was good enough for Ferrari to copy in 94 apparently.
Buzzin dozen baby!
Can't say it enough- I love the F1 content!
YES!!
I'd love to see a cooperation between KTM and Redbull to make a 2-stroke.
They just might as they are from the same country.
They can for sure design and improve 2 stroke to make way more efficient and powerful than anything before it and actually prove the theoretical projections comparisons to 4 strokes
When he said "almost 30 years ago" and presented a date of 1994 I was like "pfft no way". I was born in 1993 and im.....almost 30! shit hit me hard. Subscribe to Donut for your daily dose of reality.
Yeah i feel like 2000 was like 10 yrs ago but nah its been 21 ☠☠☠
The donut team is simply unique! On other (not even car related) shows with multiple hosts you don‘t like them all…one or two favorites but the other 2,3,4,… aren‘t that nice or funny to listen to. Where as in the donut team you gotta love em all and they are all different in their own way but all funny and interesting to watch! Thx donut
You're forgetting about Joey. Most people didn't like him, that's why he lost his Donut series. But Bart... I miss Bart and Science Garage!!!
@@lordpagano i also miss bart man
@Kan Jo Nobody cares about your rice fields
I am yet to find out who the boss is. I am wishing for everyday in donut media reality show from behind the scenes. (Yes, my life is this empty and sad.)
@@lordpagano who’s joey
I had no clue this was happening but I hope it becomes a thing
You forgot to mention 2 stroke engines have issues with heat dissipation, because they have a combustion phase every time the piston is at TDC. A 4 stroke has a 'cool stroke' on the intake stroke when there is no combustion taking place. This effectively cools the piston crown, cylinder and valves. This also increases efficiency and the longevity of the engine.
This issue also effects Wankel rotary engines, their combustion chamber sees no 'cool stroke' either, which is why rotary and 2 stroke engines exhaust manifold and tail pipe is always extremely hot, and also why they have issues with cooling.
Yes, and we should never eat too many calories, smoke, drink, use drugs, associate with wayward women, gamble or drive over the speed limit.
@@johnnyquist8362 or run near the pool. cant forget that one
In the dirt bike world, you will almost never see a 2 stroke bike over heat, but you see 4 stroke bikes over heat all the time, and people have to add fans to the 4 stoke radiators to help cool the bike down. Same sized radiators on both types of bikes... Just sayin..
Two stroke engine needs half of the fuel of the 4 stroke engine. Because every time when piston goes down its making power, in exhaust and intake piston is free fire, but all forces are applied
NZuncovered, check out the Rotax ETEC direct injection 2-stroke engine that Skidoo has been using in their snowmobiles for more than a decade.
a revving two stroke is a lovely sound, imagine F1 with the two stroke sound track that would be nice :)
Imagine F1 sounding like a tuned Kawasaki H2 Mach IV 750.
@@Toxic2T Imagine F1 sounding like a 12v71. 😍
I mean with the Oil Blow - By, Ferrari had a two stroke in 2019, so its already there :D
That's not how 2 stroke works
@@benjaminmcintosh857 I think he's joking...
@@trashbandit2449 I get the joke, it's just not funny lol
nope you are wrong. The oil burnin trick was done by every engine manufacturer of current F1. Ferrari most likely used to relatively low refresh time of the fuel sensor to burn extra fuel between its refresh cycles.
Gotta love how Jeremiah's reppin' the two strokes, we need more content like this!
fun fact: you can drastically change a 2 strokes power band even with the same expansion chamber by just using spacers before the expansion chamber. a longer pipe will pull harder down low and a shorter pipe will pull harder up high. i believe its due to the fact that the shorter pipe gets the pressure back to the exhaust port quicker hence holds the air fuel mix in better at higher rpms, the same logic applies the other way. when at low rpm and the piston takes longer to move up and down, the longer exhaust will have a delayed pressure wave holding in the air fuel mixture better when piston speed is lower.
just my 2 cents
I run 670cc rotax 2 strokes in my 85 honda odysseys. F1 would be like a scaled up street version of that. So sick imagine the noises.
Detroit diesel has been kicking ass for decades with it’s 2 stroke wizardry .
Emissions killed 2 strokes they always had a better power to weight ratio. Long live the 2 smokers!!!!
@Bob Watters It wasn't a perception dude. Don't be a whacker pretending to know everything while ur not
@Bob Watters what are you talking about every serious dirt bike manufacturer still makes 2 strokes.
they died because they stink and if your pump goes out your engine eats itself
also no one wants to rebuild their engine every 10 hours
Which I don’t understand since with a separate piling system, direct injection, and a blower like an old Detroit I don’t see how it would make anymore emissions than a 4 stroke engine
@Bob Watters they are still alive, a friend of mine bought a New 2020 two stroke just this year. The thing is all full of emission stuff. Gotta take that out….These things need to smoke.
Emissions killed the car industry.
As a qualified mechanic you explained it way better than my college teacher. Should be doing education videos for real mechanics. With your teachings young mechanics would be eager to learn and be well informed. Great job 👏
A perfected 2 stroke would make more sense for hybrid electric vehicles as it would have the highest power to weight which would mean the vehicle would be lighter and the engine will take up less space
Would make more sense than rotary engine hybrid
@@afhostie Nope. The oil burning can't be avoided with a rotary like it can with a 2 stroke. That alone kills them. Rotaries also produce much more heat due to friction, meaning they're less efficient.
@@mazdaweeb3 He said "would", not "wouldn't".
No valves, no chain, no camshafts, no rollers, no springs, no oil pump, etc, etc. 2 stroke is waaay lighter.
@@mazdaweeb3 True.
"2 strokes are ancient technology"
Sad 2 stroke diesel noises
GM scrapped them cause of emissions. 12v71 may be the best sounding diesel motor ever created
The way Jerry says "Oil" keeps me up at night
ohyle
Sounds a little too much like 'oral' to me. Especially when he's talking about engines being dirty.
Could you imagine a 2-stroke, turbo boosted, free-valve 10 cilinder screaming at over 18000rpm.
That's music to my ears. My first bike was a two-stroke Moto Beta. Next was Yamaha. But the advantage of the 4-stroke is that it has better power in the lower RPM range and that is probably why Honda's 100cc engines did so well. Ok, this is back around 1969/70. We were so free then.
2 strokes usually don’t have valves in the cylinder head. They have a reed valves (ktm v-force4 is a good example) which makes them so simple
it would remind me of a gas powered remote controlled toy plane
That alone already sounds expensive. But I hope that would happen.
@@bondgabebond4907 FREE FREE FREE No more Lets go Brandon.
We really went from a legendary V12 and V10 to a damn 2 stroke lmaoo
Skip to 1 min and 31 seconds and listen. And these are bone stock. ua-cam.com/video/F7x_e5m0R2Y/v-deo.html
We have a v6 2 stroke that turns 12k rpms
And there are also v8 2 smokes that turn 11k rpms that make 800+ hp natural aspirated
When MotoGP still used 2 strokes, awesome. Honda CR500 monster. 2 stroke is cool, but dead.go EV
Would've been cool to hear about some more modern cleaner 2 strokes like what BRP does in etec engines. Oil injection, Reed valves, an turbo 2 strokes from the factory. They're doing pretty cool stuff. They also make the only 2 stroke outboards anymore (I think)
Merc still sells 2.5 Drags and 2.5 Offshores "For racing purposes" When a 200 Lb powerhead can make 450 HP naturally aspirated, that is hard to beat.
@@GT-mn3bx ya know when you said 2.5 I thought you meant the old Black Max that everybody tunes lol. You mean the ProXs…!? Yea they still make those …. Just very few.
@@gixxerhoff7502 No.Those are the consumer outboards. The 2.5 Offshore and 2.5 Drags from Merc High Performance 300 HP Stock 9K RPM running Premix. I have 2 Drags on the transom of my DCB Mach 26.
In modified form 450 HP at 11,500.
2stroke that can rev up to 20k rpm . That would be awesome.
I'd like to see a engine designed like the old Detroit diesel engines, 2stroke diesel, with valves, 2-4 valves per cylinder, the intake is at the bottom of the cylinder, and they scream when you get on the throttle! Just imagine one with a better cam, bigger valves, ported cylinder sleeves, running a huge intercooler, with about 60psi boost, with a light weight crank rods and Pistons, a light weight block and head, using the most efficient supercharger, plus dual compound turbos, like a 8-92, =92 cid x8, Nearly 750cid, even a hotrod version of a 6-v71 or inline 6-71 , 71cid per cylinder! Running 4-6 bar boost with cool air! Maybe make a gas, or nitromethane/methanol version, direct injected , a 4340 crank , titanium rods, light weight forged Pistons, a light weight billet flywheel, a light weight timing chain to replace the heavy gears, it's only $500k to get started, maybe a 24v-92! 24cylinders at 92cid each cylinder! 😎, And that only the next to largest engine, they also have one over 100cid per cylinder, of two stroke diesel power,!!
When talking about 2-stroke engines, one must clarify the distinctions between a crankcase scavenger design from a forced induction design. Engines in 2-stroke motorcycles and weed wackers all use crankcase scavenging. Engines like large diesel buss engines (Detroit diesel) are 2-stoke that use large blowers/supercharges, often paired with turbo chargers, to scavenge the exhaust out of the cylinder with out using the underside of the piston for scavenging.
this is where that bot stole this comment
Spot on
Ship engines made by Finnish company Wartsila-Sultzer are the most efficient in the world and they are 2 stroke.
Come into the 21st Century & check out the Rotax ETEC direct injection 2-stroke engine.
@@autodidact537 Now scale that up to a 600CID 10L v8 for a BB Etec 2 stroke!
I feel like this is a blessing from god.
@Squid Game 🅥 shut up
Its a blessing from god that they wont be making 2 strokes
@@erty2389 just so you know, your profile was “check my videos” so you may be hacked
Love that you’re a two stroke guy. Also love when you incorporate bike stuff
I thought about this as well. This engine design uses a wet sump, transfer port induction, a blower and direct injection. It also ads a simple barrel valve to the exhaust port to allow for asymmetrical exhaust timing (can close exhaust port early enough on the up-stroke to allow time for the fuel to atomize before the spark, but then open the exhaust port early enough on the downstroke to allow the cylinder to clear out before the fresh charge of air comes in. Keeps the simple construction of the 2 stroke, and ads only a simple barrel valve shaft down one side of the engine. Would save a LOT of weight on a V-6 or V-8 engine, and with no reciprocating parts pushing against springs, the exhaust barrel valves would be very reliable and require relatively little energy to operate. Further, this design would save space by making the expansion chamber un-necessary. Video is 3D printed mock-up. Roots type blower would be better at low revs than centrifugal blower shown, due to the pressure of a centrifugal blower rising with the square of the speed. ua-cam.com/video/5s3OJUyJJJs/v-deo.html
y’all make learning about cars so fun
I apologize on behalf of the Asian community
I imagine you could further improve 2 strokes with modern E tech. Can you imagine Mazda bringing out a new cheap little Rx, but with a 2 banger?
bots are stealing your comment
But an rx is a rotary
@@olileoli2788 yes. That's the point. A rotary will never be on the road with modern emissions regulations. A 4 stroke would be too heavy for a real Rx. But a 2 stroke....
@@Vok250 good point.
@@Vok250 rotary is 2 stroke but better, and its emission problems would be solved with turbocharging and direct injection just like for the 2 stroke.
The funniest part of any video Jeremiah hosts is when he laughs at his own jokes.
I’ve thought for a long time that a 2 stroke with fuel injection and a turbo would be awesome.
Toyota did this in the 1980s using a traditional head. It needed a very capable ECU direct injection and a supercharger. It worked but it was stupidly complex expensive unreliable and thirsty. It didn’t solve any problems they had at the time. Also the power density was 50% higher not 100% as expected
Engine tech in the snowmobile world has been moving towards that setup for a while, and we're now starting to see direct injected turbo two strokes from the factory. I always thought turbo two stroke sleds would always remain an aftermarket novelty, but now you can get one off the Polaris dealer's show room floor!
You mean like OEM snowmobiles? Turbo 2 strokes have been aftermarket since the early 90s. Same for OEM fuel injection with the 1992 Polaris 500 EFI.
Ditto
"it also.... Smells amazing"😂😂😂👆 love it
Jeremiah's energy is pure ENFP chaos and I'm here for it.
oh god you’re right
what's with these bots lately
@@Toothily they are so annoying. Been getting their "replies" every hour for like a week straight.
@@Vok250 yet youtube be like hey new interface nice right. No spam is the problem. Oh my bad you want commercials that are scams... ugh
Large capacity high HP 2 strokes have been around for a long time. Outboard Marine Corporation produced 3.5 litre V8 2 strokes for the F1 Powerboat series in the early 80's. They were producing north of 500hp over 40 years ago. The sound they made running at 9k to 10k rpm was incredible, Whilst I'm sure you're right and it will never happen, it would be amazing to see what a modern 2 stroke built with modern materials and techniques and an F1 budget could achieve!
Do you live under a rock? The Rotax voice coil direct injection 2-stroke engine has been used by Skidoo for more than a decade to power their snowmobiles. They even make a turbo-charged version. Up until about a year ago Evinrude was producing the E-TEC 2-stoke for their outboard motors
Bring back 2-strokes in MotoGP... The sound and smell of my childhood, sitting trackside at Phillip Island.
**sniiiiiiffff** yeah
Two-strokes smell so good. That’s why I love snowmobiles and a lot of boats.
Soon they’ll be using 4 cylinders
AISURU.TOKYO/mizumi 💗
#однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #Интересно #забавно #девушка #смешная #垃圾
AISURU.TOKYO/mizumi 💗
#однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #Интересно #забавно #девушка #смешная #垃圾
My father worked for Chrysler at the Huntsville Alabama plant as a electrical engineer. Back in like 88-89 they had a "Open House" where you could see airbags being blown up with slow motion high speed video of them, new cars, electronics of all sorts, and several prototype cars. One of them was (I kid you not) a prototype Dodge Shadow 2 stroke turbo. Don't ask me how, why or anyway how it all worked, as I know how 2 strokes work and at the time I was just a kid and my dad remembers the car and powerplant but doesn't remember anything about how it was setup. So Chrysler was playing around with 2 strokes as well back in the late 1980's.
Talk about the Ski-doo Rotax e-tec 2 stroke engines! They’re know to be better on emissions than some 4 strokes
Maybe 2 stroke engine better for instantly accelerate and higher rev engine
@Harum's Piit🌹 You can get a free eternity by offing yourself scammer.
“Are you tellin me we should all be two strokein here” was my favorite skit by far 😂😂😂
Check out the Rotax E-TECH - 800cc and 160 bhp. Skidoo snowmobiles use them with less weight and better fuel mileage than equivalent (1200cc) four stokes. Fuel is injected after the ports have closed so there is no smell. Rotax even have a turbo version for use at high altitudes.
Exhaust has a variable height valve to give a wider power range. Inlet has reed valves to prevent blow back.
Fuel is not run through the crank case so less oil is needed to keep the bottom end happy.
Its also possible (with a small blower) to have a wet sump where air and fuel never goes into the crank case. This works well with V and Cross format engines.
KTM has that fuel injected 2-stroke that doesn't need oil in the fuel. That engine seemed like a massive breakthrough to me.
@DSBoomerRider yeah, a fuel injected, 2.6L V8 2 stroke.....that would probably rev to at least 15k
The oil-injection bit is the least-high-techy bit of KTM's setup (and pretty mainstream from the 70s until most two-strokes left the market throughout the 90s). The means of *feeding the fuel*, however, is the Big New Deal here. What this means for two-stroke engines in general remains to be seen.
2 stroke diesels have always had separate oil supply, they've been around nearly a century.
The Rotax ETEC voice coil direct injection 2-stroke engine has been used by Skidoo for their snowmobiles for more than a decade.
@ᴛᴀᴘ ᴍᴇ ᴀɴᴅ sᴇᴇ Natalie yep....I know that feeling being born in '92 and having met people who don't know how to use cassette tapes or floppy disks.
I got really excited at the thought of these amazing engineers building the best two stroke possible
If F1 plans to move to a more electrified future, wouldn’t the higher power to weight ratio of the 2 stroke engine be better?
No cuz they’re trying to be carbon neutral . How does going to a 2 stroke engine move in that direction
@@fastballfilms4214 who gives a f
@@fastballfilms4214 - Burn only fuels derived from above-ground sources, and the car is carbon neutral. Just like you when you breathe; as long as you’re not eating fossil fuel, your body is carbon neutral.
@@fastballfilms4214 Dont care abt carbon restrictions in F1 they make little difference to the world. Implement them on road cars but keep that shit away from racing. I just want good sounding engines in F1.
@@bottomtext593 It does make a difference. Race cars are years ahead of market cars. Of course eventually the market implements some of the tech they use when the cost to make it is more affordable. If F1 keeps using non renewable energy, what good would that be for the market? I think it would only slow the transition to green energy and reduce public market innovation in the future.
Awesome vid man, I am an old " stressing old" 2 stroke performance guy . Now direct injection, super charged induction, oil sump and valves in the head you are describing an old Detroit diesel system LOL. But the fact of 2 strokes, there is 25-30% less torque compared to a 4 stroke, a less major fact these days is the RPM, 4 strokes have almost the same rpm as the 2 stroke but given the 2 stroke weight is lighter. But torque is the king, hp is the queen. The king moves the mountain in one shot very slow, the queen takes small chunks faster, but the mountain gets moved with in the same time frame. rpm X torque divided by 5252 = hp. Two strokes need to develop a little more torque instead of relying on weight and RPM.
To answer the original titles question of "Is F1 Switching to 2-Stroke Engines"
No homie, they is not.
Maybe a good idea though idk.
Just when I'm starting to think "god I've lost him..." there's always this "AHA!" moment when everything is falling into the right place. Awesome explainer, thanks!
when i was in school learning to be a car mechanic i designed an engine that was two-stroke with direct injection that won't scavenge exhaust in the intake its not so hard to design i was 16 then
Design and execution are 2 different things
@@nicoesko1956 if i have money and time i could make it
Balakai8, It's been done, it's called the Rotax ETEC direct injection 2-stroke engine that Skidoo has been using to power their snowmobiles for over a decade.
Your main description is of the common "Loop Scavenged" 2 cycle design, and the Ferrari version with the supercharger, is just a hybrid version of the Loop Scavenged design. Detroit Diesel (aka GM Diesel Power 1937 - 1965) developed and used the "Uniflow" 2 cycle design in all their 2 cycle diesels in displacements of 53, 71, 92, 110 & 149 ci. per cylinder. The Series 71 engines (71 ci per cylinder / 4.25" x 5" B&S) were built from Jan. 1938 through Nov. 1995 - (57 yrs 11 mos).
They also had a 51 series diesel (1951 - 1959) in 2 and 4 cylinder versions that were "Valveless", but were NOT scavenged by piston/crankcase pressure. Like GM's other 2 cycle diesels, they incorporated replaceable "wet" cylinder liners, however they had "timed" large air Intake ports at the bottom and three (3) large exhaust ports near the top.
Intake & Scavenging air was supplied by a Roots blower, via a cylinder surrounding "air box" which was cast into the engine block and sandwiched in between upper & lower engine block water jackets, and completely by-passing the crankcase just like all the other 2 cycle "Uniflow" GM/Detroit Diesels.
They (Series 71) had both 2 or 4 valves per cylinder - all exhaust, and an "air box" that was cast into the block and completely surrounds the lower 1" of the cylinder liner (replaceable) where the oval intake ports formed a complete circle in the lower portion of the cylinder liner.
The intake air for scavenging and cylinder filling was slightly pressurized at approximately 4 psi on the "naturally aspirated" engines (with helical twist 3 lobe rotor Roots blowers), and at about 17 - 20 psi on the turbocharged versions (beginning in 1975), which had to blow through the roots blower(s), which were retained for starting and lower rpm throttle response.
The Roots blowers were later modified and upgraded to two versions of bypass blowers (bypass & High bypass [marine]) to help eliminate the "bottleneck" of turbo boost trying to get past the blower lobes.
The scavenging & fresh air intake charge Never went through the crankcase and the engines had fully pressurized oiling systems just like those of 4 cycle engines, including pressurized oil cooled pistons on their big Series 149 engines (5.25" x 5.25" B&S = 149 ci per cylinder / only "square" engine of the DD series).
They were also Direct Injected using "Unit Injectors" where the fuel was metered and pressurized within each injector itself and rocker arm actuation via camshaft and short pushrods.
In a small Uniflow designed gasoline (or whatever "sustainable fuel" they will burn) fueled 2 cycle developed for F1 (or whatever), they could easily replace the Roots type blower & turbo set-up with a suitably sized, Gilmer belt driven (toothed), or direct crank driven Centrifugal Supercharger to supply the air at starting rpm and all the way up to WOT (Wide Open Throttle)... a Far better and more powerful design than the Loop and Hybrid Loop (supercharged), scavenged 2 cycles commonly seen and known in gasoline fueled 2 cycle engines.
It seems like hybrids would benefit from a smaller, forced induction 2 stroke
Yeah makes allot of sense for a hybrid, and the sound, even boring hybrid road cars could sound awesome.. Changing up everything we base ICE vehicles around could be a way to discover more efficient ICE systems too.
My trimmer has a four-stroke engine ...
Edit: the Detroit Diesel ... 4-valve two-stroke, blower scavenged, old school at this point. The "blowers" have evolved to sit atop every NHRA nitro car.
Bait! “Why they’re switching”
“Well actually they’re not switching at all”
I can only really talk from a motorcycle racing pov as I am more into bikes than cars. But the only two drawbacks from 2-stroke engines was when racing them was getting the air/fuel mixture right and they were more likely to seize if you ran them too lean. Hence why you always had your hand over the clutch all the time in case it seized and the back wheel locked. But they were quicker and the smell of a 2-stroke is just heaven.
Just recall that GM ran 2-stroke diesels in their class 8 trucks for many years, by using a roots supercharger to scavenge the cylinders clean of exhaust and boosting cylinder pressure during the upstroke. And they didn't MIX oil with the fuel; had a conventional oil pan and oil pump to keep things slippery.
Personally, I couldn't care less if F1 was discontinued all together. Forever. Gone. Even NASCAR is more exciting to watch, and that isn't a compliment. Racing today is so regulated and politically correct, it's boring.
Time to watch MotoGP motorcycle racing. Factory prototype bikes with over 300 hp, and lean angles greater than 60 degrees. Top speed? 350 km/hr (215+ mph). Several different brands and riders could win each race, so it's very competitive, and exciting to watch.
@@nomorokay I think I will like that.
Im surprised F1 didn't go in the direction of free falve to create a more mechanically simply engine for 4-strokes.
The engineers didn't because it's not allowed by section 5.9.2 of the technical regulations, where it states:
"Variable valve timing and variable valve lift profile systems are not permitted."
On top of that they probably want to not increase the complexity since a current F1 power unit costs somewhere between 10-11 million USD, whereas the car costs roughly 13-14 million USD (with the PU included).
I love 2 strokes. Amazing when tuned and engineered the right way
Two strokes were at home on the water in outboards where the extra power pulse helped push the prop through the water resistance.
GM Detroit Diesel 2 strokes used a Rootes blower to scavenge the cylinders, it pushed fresh air into the cylinders to push out the exhaust.
Jerry's content is absolutely hilarious. Always informative, and good for a laugh too.
They just need to give him a 20 minute video to do whatever he wants. Just once. Characters, techno dancing in whatever the fuck he wants to wear, bald caps, everything.
0:52
Only reason they killed 2 stroke is cus of the turbo's.
Blow thru and draw thru turbo setups from the carburetor exist. They are still powerful.
My 2 stroke sled has a Silber turbo with 12 lbs of boost. Turbo 2 strokes are OEM now.
The more engine manufacturers enter the sport the better, as they say variety is the spice of life.
Hey, design your own. It's fairly simple. I went to tech school for motorcycle mechanics, and full gas to 2 stroke snowmobiles, can be an efficient way to start. Use a bore and stroke formula to compute your power by RPMs, then assume changing the location of the spark and add an oil ring, then fuel computer formula, top it off with Dyno and print time for your total cost for rip the track speeds.
2 stroke engines are for generators or AC converters for electric motors. No battery's so low weight, no loss of range or power etc. Just big gas powered drills stuck on a hot wheels.
Completely unrelated to whether it has a battery. It makes power on every down stroke instead of only half like a 4 stroke. This presents scavenging (exhaust out, fuel air mix in) challenges because there is no down stroke not making power to have a negative pressure and pull in fresh air and fuel. Many small engines use the back side of the piston going down to create a positive pressure to fill the cylinder. This is why they have no crankcase oil, and use mixed fuel and oil. With a supercharger or a turbo, this is not needed.