Does Satin Finish Sound Better than Gloss? - Alvarez TV
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- Today on Alvarez TV we've made 3 guitars - one with no finish, one with satin finish, and one with a full gloss finish. They are identical MD60s with 3 different finishes, and yet again we have surprised ourselves, because it hasn't turned out the way we thought it would. Which finish did you prefer?
0:00 Pent and Tonic (Intro Jam)
2:02 How does finish affect tone?
4:38 Satin Finish: It’s not what you think it is
6:28 It’s like somebody pressed the EQ button
7:18 What gloss finish really does
8:00 Gloss vs. Satin
9:45 Open-Pore Finish
11:47 Demo 1: No Finish
12:32 Demo 2: Satin Finish
13:17 Demo 3: Gloss Finish
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I was surprised the glossy finish was louder than the satin finish; but I also thought the low end on the glossy finish sounded "muddy" compared to the satin finish. To my ears, the satin finish had a more balanced sound.
btw, yall play and sound great! seriously yall should do an album!
There is one thing that stands out, and that is the research and proof testing that Alvarez does with the guitars is what makes these videos a pleasure to watch. Chris and Dee, no one does this better than you Guy's. World leading stuff "Thanks"👌👍🎵🎵🎵PS, My MD60 EBG was gloss finish and a lot louder than my Cole Clark FL2-A with Nitro finish. Both very good Guitar's.
Thanks so much, Ron, we appreciate the kind words! Thanks for tuning in 👍
I started this video thinking the clear-cut winner would be the unfinished, and was blown away with how nice the gloss sounded.
I bet if Alvarez offered a few more Satin Finished models they would sell a BUNCH more guitars.
What an excellent presentation! I mentioned an episode on guitar finish once below one of your previous videos, so thank you so much! Very informative and helpful. You guys rock, going beyond theory and putting things to practice.
Super!
We love doing it @RR-mi5ni and glad you enjoyed this one, we did too! Any other questions or ideas, let us know, we'd love to hear 👍
My God, so good to see rosewood as a fretboard and bridge again. So beautiful.
Thank you @LegsON, we loved making this one.
OK, I listened through my Mac speakers, not my usual earphones but I thought the unfinished sounds like when I practice with my Strat unplugged. The Satin finish sounded softer and I think better than the gloss which sounded louder or maybe brighter which is surprising.
To really do an honest comparison, you need to take an unfinished guitar, record it, then put a satin finish on the same guitar THEN record it again. Then, take another unfinished guitar, record it, THEN, put a gloss finish on that guitar, then record IT again to hear how each finish effects the same guitar. Because three same model guitars will all have their own sound, even unfinished. Music Villa in Boseman Montana brought in 7 J45s direct from the factory in Boseman. All 7 sounded different. Same finish, same wood on all 7. That's why it's sometimes risky buying a factory acoustic guitar without playing it. Happily, my Yairi DYM60HDE sounds wonderful. Not being able to play one nearby, I ordered it on the recommendation of J. P. Cormier, "Guitar Stuff with John". My previous main guitar was a 1990 Yairi WY1 for almost 25 years. I also have an Alvarez AP70 parlor. I'm hooked on Alvarez. Love the ones Josh Turner (Country) plays. Hope to get the slope shoulder sunburst someday.
I've never known another guitar maker be so bold and go to such lengths to demonstrate how their instruments are made and how variations in construction (tonebars, choice of wood) or finish impact on the sound. However, your videos take away the mystique and illustrate the design features that affect all wooden acoustic guitars so are applicable to other brands also. This helps any buyer make unbiased, informed choices when choosing a guitar. Good on ya! BTW in the late 60s/early 70s there was a trend amongst a few British folk and blues guitarists to scrape off the finish from the guitar top in the hope that it would make the guitar more resonant. I think I recall John James writing that Ralph McTell had persuaded him to do it to his Levin but he wasn't happy with the result.
Thank you, Brian, for your kind comments - we love doing this and are glad to give guitar obsessives like ourselves even more options to get all the tones they are looking for, anywhere on the musical spectrum. If you have any questions or ideas, please send them our way, we live for this! Great story about Ralph McTell!
@@AlvarezGuitarsOfficial I'll give that some thought.
Great video. I do agree with your assessments and appreciate the fact that all three guitars were fed through the same mic. Good job Guys, as we all know that different mics can skew the results.
Thanks @jabomiles6947, appreciate you tuning in 👍
They all sound great. No matter the fit and finish, Alvarez sets the bar high. Great job to Chris and the team! 👍👍🎶🎶🎶🎶😎😎😎😎🤯🤯🤯🤯🤬🤬🤬🤬
Great video, guys. Very interesting results. I thought the bare guitar would sound great but ugh... Chris and Dee autograph that satin finish guitar and sell it to me please.
Man I love your guys videos!
thanks for explaining about the different finishing techniques. that mightve been what i was noticing
Here to help!
Awesome video, very interesting!
Loving these real-life testing/comparisons and examples! Interesting how much we THINK we "know" until those beliefs are put to the real test! :D Thanks! :D
We love it, too! If you have any questions or requests, please send them our way.
The gloss finish model sounds the best
Loved this comparison. Every guitar has its own character. On my classicals, the one with a polyurethane finish by José Ramírez is by far the loudest (the others are shellac and French polish) yet the other two are both sweeter, more delicate, with more colors. Every guitar can be tweaked by using different picks, fingernails, or skin to activate the strings. Oddly, on acoustics, I like mandolin picks and Taylor Darktones. Gets rid of the country twanginess. Jazzier.
Thank you. 😊
Wow, not the result that most of us anticipated. Great instructional video! For years we have heard about the thin finish as being the best. My preference of this video is the gloss finish. The timbre is more robust and commanding.
I have a nice custom guitar, from a very reputable builder, that has a torrefied top. All satin finish; top, sides, and back. Sounds tinny to me. Bass side sounds very good. Have used the Jimi Hendrix method and tuned down a whole step to try and get some increased mid-range over the highs.
Don't want to change the string gauges, as the guitar does not have an adjustable truss rod. Maybe what I really need to do is apply a thick coat of guitar polish on it. What are your team's thoughts?
Really nice comparison! The satin finish guitar sounds more mellow, almost like a mahogany body vs the glossy rosewood body sound.
Now you need to put a shellac finish on that unfinished guitar for comparison; or send it to me if it's taking up space! LOL
My favorite was the gloss finish. Thanks for the video. It m
akes me reconsider some of my biases.
Glad to hear it! Thanks for tuning in, @yogarich!
I like the look with no pick guard.
Great video as always. Thanks I have many Alvarez guitars. the newest is an AF30C satin finish folk size body. It sounds great but I'm wondering if a Gloss top would give it more punch such as your all gloss guitar did in this video. I like the satin sides and back. Gloss guitars like to slide away from me while playing. I also have an older Alvarez RD8 Drednaught all gloss guitar that is probably the best sounding acoustic I own and I own many. I wish the back of the neck on that guitar was satin finish, but it still plays great . I as well was surprised how different each finish sounded. Keep the videos coming, and the great guitars too.
I agree with you about them being more slippery. On the Alvarez I have, they seem to have added a little abrasion where it rests on your knee but I’m still tempted to get the sandpaper out! Have you been?
Thanks for the great comment! Pleased to here you found it interesting, we would recommend trying our Artist 60 series. Which have gloss top satin backs, sides and neck, this may work great for you! 👍
Can I have the unfinished one, since it is unsellable and hard to finish now?
Surprising results. The unfinished one's "metallic" sound is clearly a resonance at an unwanted frequency. My guess would be 4k and very narrow but I'm only playing on my phone so it could be very different. Regardless, it's now obvious that the finish tames that resonance.
3 thoughts:
1) Great video. Very eye (ear) opening.
2) Whoever told John Lennon to remove the finish for better sound, was probably wrong.
3) Perhaps it reveals an area for improvement in construction. It's possible that the finish is the best solution to dampen that resonance. It's also possible that moving a brace 1/4" would also remove it. Which leaves the question, "Would an unfinished guitar win the shootout if it wasn't built in a way that the finish was needed to compensate?"
Maybe the finish on Lennon’s guitars were a lot thicker? I don’t know, but technology has moved on
A hard paste wax also changes the dynamics. A spectrum scope overlay would show a visual of the areas boosted.
Interesting concept. Have you tried it? If so, please provide a comment about the results.
@@mk-wv6yv I haven't had the equipment in a few years but; I did something similar with speaker cabinets. There also is a scientific study published on violin varnish that explains a lot here...bridgewoodandneitzert.london/blog/violin-varnish-affects-tone-instrument/
During the intro jam do you discuss what key you'll be playing the solo part in, so that the rhythm guitar knows which chords to play or do you just go by ear / experience.
I find jamming with others really difficult if its not planned.
This is very interesting. I've recently bought a K Yairi guitar (a cheaper FY84CE model) and along the way I tried out numerous guitars, one of which was a Cole Clark Auditorium 2 model in blackwood. I really, really (!) disliked the unplugged acoustic sound of that guitar and was trying to describe to the sales guy what I disliked about the sound. All I could come up with is that it sounded "metallic". He was asking what I meant but I couldn't come up with a better description. Had I seen this video I could have pointed it out to him where the same description has been used about the unfinished guitar. Unfortunately for the Cole Clark I would say it sounded a lot worse! In it's defense it sounded great plugged in...
I believe the glossy finish has more sustain. The satin seems more mellow and there is some crossover between notes. The glossy finish seems to separate chords better.
I think it's very hard to do a true comparison where there are no differences but the treatment of the top...it makes the assumption that all three have identical bracing behaviour...as we know, bracing is everything and it's hard to truly know whether you're truly comparing like with like
Yeah but the no finish one is such an outlier that the cause is almost certainly the lack of a finish
I would say the unfinished guitar has a very RAW sound quality. The Gloss is just a touch more damping to the guitars sound. The Satin to my ears is the most open and articulate.
Very interesting... I thought the satan finish would sound more open than the glossy... but it did not to my ears... I have a 1986 Satan finish Alvarez Yairi DY-45 which I purchased new in 1986.
Which I love... I also have a Gibson Advanced Jumbo and a Martin HD-28... they are glossy finish and they each sound different. I enjoy them all... and I alway thought the satan finish would sound better in those guitars... Not so sure now. Thank you for taking the time to build and compare. I really enjoy your interviews and playing.
Thanks for the kind words, @rickmyerscough7788! Your opinions really matter, glad to hear you are enjoying your Alvarez. 👍
A brave statement as pretty much every Alvarez video prides themselves on a thin finish.
We're a brave brand. Thanks for tuning in 👍
And the oiled finish ? What difference ?
I own a glossy spruce top and pau ferro satin finish back and sides OM :).
The glossy top all the time need to be cleaned of dust 😊.
My daughter has an all satin finish spruce/walnut, also an OM, but it's not melower than mine at all.
Ps. She has no problem with the dust😅 like me...
Greatings.
The Satin sounds amazing to my ears. Visually I appreciate the "tamed down" appearance of both the Satin and the "Naked." I think all 3 versions could have a place in the marketplace. I think my money would go to a Satin with a pickup (MD60E-Satin).
Great feedback. Thanks Jason!
The stiffness of the Gloss Finish
makes the Guitar resinate more!
😎🎸🎶☮️
I like the look of a satin finish just a little less blingy and would like the choice. Maybe a naked series like Faith. All solid but cheaper! Tonally it and the gloss sounded similar.
Hello. Random off topic question…. I’m from Dallas, TX, and finding Masterwork and Yairi models is tough. Is there a reason for that?
Is Austin your main Texas market? Is this dealer driven?
Any help connecting me to these products would be appreciated.
Thx
Hi @user-sj4wi9sr5d, thanks for the questions! We have dealer locator, head over to alvarezguitars.com/dealer-locator/ Hope this helps! 👍
To really convince me, you would have needed to do the three different finishes on one guitar. Start unfinished, record it, then satin finish, record, then gloss and record. Many identical guitar models still sound quite different. I don’t doubt finish could make a difference, but the different guitars brings too much variability to it.
MD60 is quite literally a perfect guitar. Everytime I play it I feel like I'm playing a $2000 guitar. That said I had to get a bridge doctor installed as the bridge was coming up, and the frets shaved down from the factory. But other than that it's so nice.
How old is your MD60?
Depends on your set up, gloss finishes need a fair old strum to get a decent sound out of them. Not good if the wife and kids are in bed. I’ve a satin finish Tanglewood and it sounds great and bluesy , with just a touch.
Interesting. Not what I expected either…
Shame there wasn’t any single string/ finger style comparison (yes, I realise this size of guitar is about volume and strumming really)
You have obviously nailed the gloss finish, as some other guitars are definitely muted by a thick finish.
And it’s clear that you don’t like the one with no finish.
Cheeky question. Can I have it please if you don’t want it, as think it might have a great bluesy sound?
I love this video, but there are a few things that I think would make it better. Having the same person playing the same tune, in the same space, & with the same mic is perfect. The one variable that you're not able to control for is the speaker on our end. A poor speaker may not be able to convey some of the nuances you're able to hear when recording.
There is also natural bias. I think the difference between the unfinished & the other two stands out, but would I say that if I didn't know which was being played? So maybe play something off screen.
The other suggestion would be to include the EQ data. See if there is a quantitative difference for where the metallic, or fuller, or softer sounds are coming from. So what is the differences in volume? Does one have more bass? Is one fuller across all frequencies?
I know I would like to make one other suggestion for a build how about a sycamore wood top with solid Rosewood back and sides
Great idea, @blackhawkxlh102! Thanks for the comment.👍
Someday, I'm gonna buy one, regardless of finish
I'd like to request an experiment where as the guitar is being built finish the entire inside and outside of the guitar and see how it sounds
Many thanks for tuning in, we’ve sent a request to Chris and Dee!
Love the satin....but all of the guitars sound great
If you want to give away the unfinished guitar, I'd be happy to take it...😂
ya definitely #2
First!
The one with no finish(before the A B comparison had sort of a jangly tone like a Taylor. Difference being this one is more harsh. Satin seemed to separate and be more articulate in the bass than the gloss. The gloss had fantastic treble and mids. Personally, I preferred the satin overall.
Why no finger style? 😂
I can’t judge any guitar by hearing it being strummed; I have to get my own fingers on it…and that’s how you ALL should buy guitars.
Play it for yourself.
Peace y’all. 🐰🎸🎶✌️
Satin finish doesn't show fingerprints...other than that, no difference.
Cheaper no plastic sounds better
Fix your 175mm nut width and very sharp edges finger board..your welcome..!! See it your self