Whenever I hear players talking about that a GM has to be like Matt Mercer, I hope they are players as good as the ones Matt Mercer has on his table. ;-)
Well...are the players clever...or do they RP like it's a soap opera. Long monologues are not a measure of quality necessarily. I've had players at a 6 yr long table who didn't necessarily RP like actors, but they were clever, inventive, mature with consequences, funny, and contributed to play. That, to me, is far more valuable than a player who can do 12 accents and looks like a model.
100% agree. I honestly dont think Matt is the be all and end all - but the game is quite spectacular due to the collaborative efforts of the group. If only people could take THAT message from CR that would be fantastic
I feel like you´re missing the point slightly, the Matt Mercer Effect refers to mismatched expectations on the part of certain players, expecting every game of D&D to be like an episode of Critical Role and holding everyone at the table to ridiculous standards they themselves more often than not fail to meet, these sorts of players come to a game of D&D expecting to be entertained by everyone else at the table instead of to have fun playing a game, they're not actually open to trying to experience authentic D&D. I've personally come across dozens of these people and been forced to eject them from my game, every single one of them has been a detriment to the groups enjoyment of the game as a whole, they did nothing but complain about superficial nonsense, ragging on my other players for not speaking in character and doing a voice etc. I'm always open to constructive criticism and offering my players what they want but these people just want to have their own personal performance from Critical Role starring themselves.
This exactly. Even as someone who almost never thinks about the Matt Mercer effect, hearing this video ignore the point and focus on telling the lowest common denominator of DM the equivalent of "Git Gud, scrub" is, at best, unhelpful and uninteresting compared to the rest of his content. At worst, it's annoying to see him dismiss the problem as just coming from low quality DMing and a lack of willingness to kick out problem players.
@@AlphaOmega1237 I’ve yet to experience this at my tables but probably because I discourage the MME before we get to the table without even having to say so. I always say “roleplaying is making moves based on your character’s perspective, not yours, and doesn’t require an accent to do so”. I do think homie missed this in the video.
I’m genuinely curious what dm is churning through dozens of players who stands to gain only from the most constructive and well-thought out of criticism and all the churn was clueless CR zealots. I could be wrong but I couldn’t see myself being able to dm for long if I couldn’t settle in with a good group or two pretty quickly.
@@jmass4207 well dozens was slight hyperbole, it was only like 15 players and I slowly collected good players while sorting through the trash. Also I've been DM'ing for decades at this point so I wouldn't give up just because the last 5 years or so have been terrible
In generally like CR and Mercer, but remember that Mercer has a lot of time to prepare. Its effectively his job. If you had 40 hours to get ready for a game night, you could probably have a better game. Its like comparing your garage band to U2. One band makes millions of dollars, the other band makes $100 three times a year. They both play the same basic instruments but their objectives are very different.
The thing is, everyone sees it as a different thing. The real Matt Mercer effect, but it's more like a general trend in D&D in particular over time, is that now you get players who develop these super complex characters and get genuinely attached to them practically before they've started a game. We've gone from "roll up three characters because two of them will probably die in the first gauntlet" to "oh god, I accidentally killed a character in Lost Mines of Phandelver". There's a lot of pressure to give people the *illusion of danger* without it truly being there, and at low levels that's just not how 5e works. It isn't that I'm chomping at the bit to kill PCs, it's that I'm terrified of not fudging rolls because there's a lot of people who react like I'm being an asshole for, you know, playing the game. That's the Mercer Effect. And it isn't an inherently negative thing, it isn't a *universal* thing, it's just a general cultural shift, along with the divide between what 5e was initially designed to be good at and what many people use it for causing something akin to a pre-Edition War (which has essentially been caused by 5e eating the RPG market and people not realizing or caring that there's other games.)
This might be the most well thought out, observant, and refreshing comment I have gotten on this video. You honestly illustrated something that I hadn't quite thought of.
@@DungeonMasterpiece Oh, wow, cool. I started to think about this stuff after my first attempts at playing TTRPGs (and DMing) were awkward, failed run-throughs of LMoP and Hoard of the Dragon Queen. I've hardly had a chance to play since then, but the weird tension between what I thought of D&D as and how it played out in reality (as someone who struggles to ignore rules) made me read about a lot of other systems and how these games are very different things to different people.
I mean, yeah, but I'm still kind of hung up on the time I had a player tell me that I was wrong about the gods in my setting because I didn't use Matt Mercer's pantheon
OOF, that's fucking hilariously dumb. I'm sorry you had to deal with someone like that. I would just remember though what they said is just kid-brain logic, so it's not something worth hanging on to. Just a really dumb individual who might have even been a literal child.
I have to take a stance of measured disagreement with the thesis that the Matthew Mercer Effect does not exist. I've had players who requested I make the game more like Critical Role, or complained that I did things differently than Matthew Mercer. I've also been a player to DMs who mention that Critters make for terrible D&D players because of their expectations. However, I can acknowledge that not every DM who complains about the MME are being completely honest with how these interactions went down. And I do agree that not every player is a good fit for every table. Not many tables have sessions that are played like episodes of Critical Role. Players who love to roleplay, stay in character and enjoy immersive worldbuilding can find tables that offer that experience.
I think you misunderstood the central point of the video. Saying "It doesn't exist" seemed to me more like an abridgement of saying, "These complaints people make simply come from their inability to communicate about d&d without referencing CR or Matt Mercer, making them the symptom, not the cause of the effect."
I would say it's more the Critical Role effect than the Matt Mercer effect. While he is the epitome of what most players want in a DM, I think people in general fail to realize that he's half, or less, of the equation. Everyone on CR is a voice actor; they professionally take on other characters/roles for the jobs. They can all voice act and commit to it 100% without fearing they'll sound dumb or out of place, etc. That's what keeps most people from committing too much to the roleplay. Since everyone on CR voice act during their games, people feel like that is a critical part of playing D&D, it isn't. And one of the biggest factors, if not the biggest, is that each of the characters has an in-depth complex background that Matt is able to bring up during the entire campaign. This is critical for players to feel invested. If Matt Mercer seriously DM'd a group of non-voice actors that only had 1 or 2 general background details like most at-home games, and we watched it, it wouldn't be nearly as fun to watch for all of those reasons. Personally, I think Matt is a legendary DM because of all of those things he has under his belt; the voice acting which adds immersion, the imagination of a true fantasy nerd, a very high level understanding of the game, rules, great improvisation ability, and now the ability to play in a large commerical building/room with all the minis and dwarven forge mini buildings he wants. But his status as a DM is heightened even more because all of his players are near or on the same level as him.
There are actually some games where he DMs for other groups. Usually one-shots. He's still great at it, but as you said, it isn't the masterful show you see when he's playing with his main group.
I don't think you can just dismiss this stuff outright. In my early days of GMing (within a year of Critical Role starting), my first real group would *constantly* compare everything to CR. It was honestly kinda ridiculous, and even though I don't remember any direct cases of people comparing *me* to Mercer, there were quite a few times what I was *doing* was directly compared to how Mercer handled things
That must have felt miserable :/ Even if they might say something positive your work and ideas is just reduced to "this is just like Matt," or "Matt did this better."
Matt also wrote several books for the backstory and setting of his campaign, something most normal people wouldn't consider for their DnD campaigns unless they were getting paid to do it. That shit is expensive and time consuming. Let them know they're free to create their own custom monsters and abilities for those monsters and a setting for a city they might visit for 10 minutes. Backstory for the villains that makes sense with the rest of the story and setting along with believeable plot hooks to bring them in and then develop relations for the NPC's they decide to kill on a whim within 3 seconds of saying "hello". Let them take the reins for once. Just have all the players DM just for you. and you do everything you can to fuck it up. As a DM you will know exactly the best ways to do this. It will be educational. I think once people become more aware of the huge amount of work DMing takes they are humbled a bit.
The Mercer effect is more of a player problem than a DM problem. It has to do with expectations. Mercer and other narrative DMs prepped those future players who only watched games instead of actually playing any. They show up expecting the voices that not everyone can do, combats with expensive minis and dwarven Forge terrain, and a crew of supporting actors. This places new DMs in a heavy burden of expectations. You're right. There are ways around this. I personally got around this by establishing my own ways of engaging the table that aren't Mercer's methods. But I have 43 years of experience. I always suggest that players and DMs looking for different methods take the time to observe more than CR shows. Colville, Perkins, Holkins and others have radically different styles, and that's just online. Sit in others' games if you can. Steal tricks. Decide for yourselves what your style is and be willing to adapt and grow.
Each DM is different and its all about leaning into your strengths. Matts good at the voices and immersion, that may not be your strong suit. Find the area of the game that gives you and most juice, and squeeze it for all its got.
It's not even that mercer is that good at immersion. He just rambles on and on and on how a certain location looks like. Keeping it vague is sometimes better, every player it already differently looking in his mind, and so just bablling on and on and on, destroys whatever picture they have in their mind.
This is no different than new players coming into the game having watched Game of Thrones, read LOTR or played Diablo or Skyrim. Matt does a great job, but so do soap opera production staff. There are always some pearls there, but in the end, each group is unique and develops a style. Thanks for the great commentary, as always.
Yeah, players want to RP with a profession improv actor who does voices for a living, and have tactical combats with brilliant terrain and professionally painted figures. And they want a world built so well that Wizards of the Coast bought it as a world setting for their game, they're asking for the three pillars of gaming to the exact standards they've seen on Critical Role but that's somehow not the Matt Mercer Effect? I'll grant you that the Matt Mercer Effect is overblown as a problem but I deal with New RPG players all the time that have come into the hobby from media influences and have unrealistic expectations of what is commonly available at a table. I've seen the other end of the Matt Mercer Effect. I've seen a hobby that has at times been very lazy focusing on presentation and story and roleplay post Critical Role. So I struggle to believe the Matt Mercer Effect is somehow in everyone's head.
yeah obviously the phenomenon of critical roll poisoning new players' expectations does exist its just that its not the main issue. clickbait strikes again
Love Professor Dungeonmaster, but I might have a new favorite DM channel. As for the Matt Mercer effect, I tell players this: "Learning D&D from watching professional actors play for the camera is like learning about sex by watching professional porn stars. You might get unrealistic expectations."
I agree with your individual points. I do say that I have to agree with your your basic statement but not in the way that you say. I very much believe there is a tendency for players to compare DMs and have encountered many players who have some glorious, nostalgia-elevated experience with a particular DM that they rate all others again. I think Seth Skorkowsky's video on "Jeff" frames this pretty well in his usual entertaining style. This said, I think it is a bit harsh to say that a DM is necessarily doing something wrong if his players are comparing him to Matt Mercer or any other DM for that matter. In a recent experience, I played with a player for years, even formed an out of game friendship with him, collaborated on projects and let him infuse my campaign with his own creativity, only to have him explode on me and call me a "shit DM who never gave him anything to work with". Again, all of your points are good ways to address those who would sing this song, but in the end, some players just expect too much or will never be happy because of unrealistic expectations.
TL;DR: This video is a great way to handle it, but it is a thing. I agree with moat points here, however, I think whether or not the M Effect exist depends on how one defines it. I always understood it to be when players (typically new ones) only understand D&D in the context of CR and expect each and every session they are in to conform to their preconceived notions not taking into account the experience of their DM compared to MM and the production value of CR. At best they just don't have the language for what they really want in a game. At worst, they're toxic and won't let go of their preconceived notions. I'd say 8/10 times it is a language issue as you address here, but there are some seriously unreasonable people out there.
It absolutely exists. I had a player who had never played D&D before, and ended up comparing the games we played, audibly out loud, to Matt Mercer's, and how it didn't match up. I've seen it in action. There were other people in the same game who had plenty of fun, and that player DID end up enjoying D&D for what it is. It just took some time. I'm not saying that player is representative of a larger whole, but since I've got first hand experience with this, I'm gonna go ahead and speak my peace. Matt Mercer effect is real, and if it wasn't, people wouldn't talk about it. The criticsism that CR misrepresents the hobby is also hard to argue with: real D&D is not fun to watch, its fun to play. Not saying either are bad, but when it comes to DM's having to be compared to a TV show, you know you're gonna hear us bitch.
If it wasn’t real, people wouldn’t talk about it? That’s the most nonsensical argument I’ve ever heard. It’s the Protestors Fallacy. “Well they must have a good point, if so many people are complaining about it!” Obviously flawed logic. CR is real DND. You need to get past that. And your players need to realize that most dnd games don’t have the budget or talent that Mercer does, and that’s fine too. Trying to pit fans against one another is not the answer.
I simply had them surrounded by darkness with death like screaming playing in the background. They tightened up after that 😅u don't need silly voices when you can just play audio from UA-cam
I understand where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. I had one Matt Mercer player ever but it was definitely not one I feel this video would solve. We were doing an Eberron game in 4e. It was his first game. He was playing a Warforged. He constantly felt I didn't do enough to engage his character. So, I honestly just asked him what he'd like to see more of in the game. I always end my sessions asking for feedback for the next session. He couldn't verbalizr an answer. I said I understood because he was new. So, I tried everything: intense social scenes, big combat, hijinx, epic quest hooks. Like five sessions of going through a lot of different styles of scenes that his character could get involved with and his response were things like "all your characters have the same voice" and "why do we have to use these cheap minis" and "why do you make maps on graph paper" and "why should I care about this character?" And I tried to address them but it was running me ragged. I asked the other players, who enjoyed the game, and they basically told me that I had tried a lot and the guy just wasn't being reasonable. One of the other players was a long time friend and the other was a co-worker who was new to D&D and was loving it. We eventually just asked the guy to leave and asked if anyone else at the hobby shop wanted to join. It improved the game as we got a Shifter Druid who ended up more willing to play ball.
I use time like it was used in Ravnica. My campaign is set in a living world. If players are told that an orc horde was spotted in Neverwinter Wood and they need to get backup for fear of a town raid, the clock starts. If they get to it, they are able to defend the town. If they take their time, then they show up just in time. Think when allies show up just as the siege attack begins. If they do nothing or think they have forever, like it's a video game, then they will come to find the orcs in the middle of destruction or have newly taken the city. Running DoIP (dragon of icespire peak) and they didn't want to take rations to the loggers camp. When they returned after another quest, asking to take the rations, they were told another adventuring party already set out a few days ago. I haven't experienced the MM effect but I DM a 1on1 campaign and the other is for my wife and kids.
@@DungeonMasterpiece yes. Never a scheduling issue. Plus the rule of cool is rule number 1 Son wanted to turn and run, while swinging his staff to attack. Let him, with disadvantage, half movement speed and if he missed the goblin got an opportunity attack
Very interesting to read the comments! In my country Critical Role is not that famous (language barrier, i'm brazilian), and most of all i don't like D&D at all, i play other games, like Blades in the Dark and Ironsworn (just to give examples), so i don't have any problem akin to "mercer effect" (never even heard about that, also i never watched that show), but it is VERY interesting to see how much of a impact this series have on the US (and other english speaking countries i guess). Also it's interesting to see that even through there's much more different systems in english, and a much more player base, seems to me that D&D is more hegemonic (you guys even say "D&D" when you mean RPG as a whole) in other countries than here.
You're advice to keep the pressure on applied to the filming of this video, from the microsecond you hit the notification the video opens with the starting pistol of an opening and is a graceful dash to the end. Excellent work.
the golden rule is never forget the DM is just another player ! all the players are responsible for fun around the table. comunicate and dont forget to love each other
Most of my players, with a couple of exceptions, are old grognards like myself, so that's not really a thing. I'm not sure all of them even know who Matt Mercer is.
Matt Mercer has said there is no Matt Mercer Effect. That's just how he happens to like playing. But I noticed when I was playing Star Wars back in the West End Game days. The quality of the immersion and storytelling depend on how well-read the DM was. You can only do variations of the movies so many times.
Matt Mercer has acknowledged the Matt Mercer effect, though. I think we're both thinking of the same Reddit post he made, and when he says "our style of play is just that...our style of play," he's not saying that the Mercer Effect isn't real, he's acknowledging it and saying that every table is different and CR's shouldn't be used as the gold standard. He goes on to say that it's not just the DM's responsibility to contribute to the experience and manage expectations, it's everybody's.
@@Eamil Mercer effect is mostly a result of ill-informed, lazy, and/or entitled ppl who expect to be spoonfed what dnd is and to receive a professional-level game
these are a list of traits that some players want, but the matt Mercer effect is more than just traits some people just believe that critical role is the average DND game, that is the matt Mercer effect, it's expectations that cannot be met.
Just removed 2 people from my game and the next session was described as the best he’s ever played in by one of the remaining players. No ill will toward those other 2, but they were actually ruining my games.
Great video. I really enjoyed these takes on it. Ironically as the DM, I’m the one that’s seen CR more than anyone and I’m the one that feels the game is never good enough because on it. My standards are to high and this definitely helped lower them to a healthy level. Immediately subscribed.
I'm surprised with the main point. The one big criticism I get from my players is that I do put too much pressure on them making everything time gated. We now started a new campaign in which I gave them much more freedom and feel less hurried to accomplish their goals. I hope they don't end up bored!
One of the best things I learned from screenwriting classes is how to amp up story pressure using timelocks. Using the story circle and setting the emotional touchstones makes it easier to keep people invested.
For me, the main issue is honestly finding games due to my short schedule, working a lot mainly during the week, on top of being in Australia, so timezones make it difficult as well. When I search for games online through the standard platforms such as Roll20, the majority of them are now paid games for some reason. I've seen the constant mentality of "Oh, D&D is just meant to be for fun!" and all, and I completely get that, but when payment gets involved, that mindset gets changed and expectations are different. I'm still on the fence about paying for D&D games, but if I were to pay $20 a week for a game, then yeah, I better expect a solid GM/DM really willing to put in that work. I don't expect them to be Matt Mercer, but I'm expecting a similar quality. Of course, this is just if I were to cave into paying for games, which I really don't want to, but free games fill up really fast and it's hard to find one.
I see it not as thr mercer effect but the Matt effect. I take from other DM's what I think is cool or could better myself and leave the things that are not my style or out of reach.
The problem has nothing to do with GMs being of poor quality and wanting to blame Matt Mercers success for it, its about a certain new kind of player who expects the table to be optimized towards the extent to which an external audience would view the game as having "high art legitimacy" and being worthy of their time if this game was live streamed to an audience. They get angry when people don't do voice actor quality vocal work, they harshly judge the GM if they dare to stutter, they're basically anti social and care about this imaginary "high art legitimacy" of the game more than the experience of anyone there. This is the equivalent of someone who is having sex for the first time and is lashing out because it isn't like the pornography they've been watching. It's not only an unfair expectation on everyone else at the table, it's not just rude but the end result they want isn't even desirable. It isn't desirable because the former is deeply personal and about the people involved, the second is a product for the benefit of an audience. It becomes a problem when a player expects your game to be a product, or a GM is expecting their players to primarily exist as an accessory to help them make a product. That's what the Matt Mercer effect is about.
"Just give them a social encounter." "Use this simple recipy to spice up your combat encounters." You make it sound so easy and maybe it is to you. Truth is: It's NOT easy. Not for me and many DMs out there. It becomes even more daunting when we also have to juggle the responsibility of being the moderator and manager for the game. One point that is often overlooked: Matt Mercer also does a really great job moderating the sessions and managing the players at the table. It's hard to have fun with the game when half the session is spent either waiting for someone else to make their move, discussing rules, or even off-topic small talk. And I admit, I've been the GM for some of these. Unfortunately, moderating and time management are tough skills to learn. But I would say it is even more important than coming up with the perfect encounter design or doing amazing voice acting.
New to the channel. I love a lot of what you're saying. I get what you're saying about time. I used to DM/play in RPGA. They broke their Adventures down into 4 hour sessions... and the general rule is that the party has at least one engaging encounter per hour of real time. I have always used this as a general rule unless it really breaks up an engaging RP... I have actually been at a session where a newer player tried the Matt Mercer argument, but they were trying to use it to ask for something in character creation that was way outside the rules, and they swore if our DM was as good as Mercer, that he would "allow it". Yeah, right.
I’ll add one I encountered with my players (my houses teens): “we don’t know what to do” they literally freeze up if given more than one or two choices in things to make their objectives, and they struggle with how to accomplish them once chosen. I solved this by giving them mentors or superiors to give them temporary and vague directions. Meanwhile, I’m letting them find things of interest to them on the way and offer those as quest hooks to them when their boss has nothing for them. It usually takes about 4 or 6 sessions in a campaign for them to start spreading wings and taking things into their own hands where the mentor/boss can take solid steps back and let them run with a general direction
I've seen this talked about online to death, but I've personally never dealt with it and I'm the only one that hasn't watched the show extensively in my group. I guess I'm either doing something right or we just have a good time regardless of how the session goes because we're all friends. I can definitively attest to the time limit though. Nothing makes a bigger impact than when you forecast a time limit to something bad. I ran a story line where the PC's uncovered an assassination plot of an elven diplomat that would most likely take place at a peace talk in 5 days time. They spent their five days chasing leads all over town leading to hidden assassins, wererats in the sewers attempting to funnel in enemy soldiers , necromancer dealings, and even a slumbering tarrasque. At the end it was clear there was still danger, but they were able to see the effects of their investigation that ultimately helped them win the day, but with the consequences of their earlier failed investigations being apparent with some friendly casualties and a very close call for one of the PC's. It was a good time
I watched CR season one as the first episodes were coming out. I introduced two of my players to CR and they have watched it ever since, I stopped after season two pretty much. We had a blast of a campaign that extended over two years and my players said I was the best GM they'd ever had. It was 90% combat. If the Matt Mercer effect exists, it's not as common as people make it out to be on Reddit/UA-cam.
Assuming the Matt Mercer effect does not exist in the way most people think about it I am still a little intimidated by the production value of the show, even when I know that it's not why my players are coming to my table.
@@DungeonMasterpiece with their battery of like 40+ staff yeah. That kind of polish is damn near impossible to match. Rightly so, because we see the finished product.
A good book to reference this topics solutions in more detail is Traci Hickman’s XDM. Each point is discussed in detail. Great job on the video by the way!
I've wanted to make this video for some time. Great video. I would add in addition to the player not having 'good communication skills', perhaps the DM doesn't have 'good people handling skills'. Setting expectations goes a long way to avoiding player disappointment.
Two of my players GM. They help a lot as do I when I'm a player. We all want it to be fun and if they want me to add something I usually do or explain why I won"t :)
Anytime I've encountered people who talk their games not turning out like Critical Role, it's usually in reference to the characters. I'd argue this actually very little to do with the DM, and more to do with the dynamic of the players themselves and their expectations. The DM can certainly encourage certain types of behavior or try to remove problem players, but that's not a reasonable solution for every game group. Fostering a good player dynamic in my experience starts at character creation, having a good session 0 and honestly, whether or not your group has any chemistry outside of the game. People get different things out of playing D&D, and it's a difficult balance trying to appeal to every single person at a table, which is why I tend to prefer games with fewer players in general, and it'd be my recommendation to start smaller (3-4 players) if you are a newer DM. Three players is still my preferred number, as most of the people I play with really enjoy long, well thought out planning sessions, and when the player count is low, those players get more individual time to contribute to a plan, and a higher chance that the plan being executed without distractions.
I would think Matt would fall into at least a C list celebrity. He’s an extremely prolific and well accomplished voice actor, along with CR. But yes, your points are spot on!
Okay, I have never heard of the Matt Mercer effect. None of those complaints sounded like complaints. I love all those things Matt does and would hope to do much the same in my world, but every solution you provided seems like the sort of things Matt does as well. Matt has the basics down smooth which is why, perhaps, people confuse the flourish he offers as being the substance or magic ingredient. I loved all these suggestions you provided by the way, and think they will help me be a better DM. The thing you really pointed out to me was how to better know my players, which will ultimately make a better game. Thanks
Parting ways is very healthy and natural. I started playing RPGs with a certain group of players, they're all still my friends (because why would we stop being friends?) About 2 years in our interests in games diverged so we don't play together anymore. RPGs that is, we'll still play minecraft and other things occasionally. So now I play with other groups, who are also my friends. It's just that simple.
The thing about Matt Mercer is the passion and effort he puts into his games, from the story to the range of NPC encounters. Furthermore, he has a pleasant narrative voice, and he can provide vivid imaginative descriptions without it being overly flowery or pretentious, and speaking as a writer, achieving this balance is a pretty big deal. Then you have lots of little things that come from years of practice and experience. You're right that he's a modest-level actor, but that doesn't matter. It's only a small part of what he does as a DM, and the voices and mannerisms he provides is more than enough to make the experience suitably immersive. The fact is, if Critical Role is the first thing people see of D&D (and for a lot of people, it is), it absolutely will have an effect on one's perception and expectations of the game. Even if it's just a case of amateurs comparing themselves to an expert, rather than being specifically a Mercer thing, it doesn't make the effect any less real. You do have some perfectly valid points about addressing it, but it would've come across a lot better if the premise was understanding and dealing with it, rather than just saying it doesn't exist. BTW, there is one other thing to consider. If someone is overly pre-occupied with making their game like the show, it's possible that they're simply entertained by the players/show, rather than the actual game itself. Ask yourself, what interests you more, the experience of playing the game, or the fantasy of being a group of skilled performers?
I don't know... never encountered this fenomenon myself, fortunately... but I'm pretty sure there are people out there who expect DMs to indeed behave like Matt Mercer... Hell, I've talked to people who have said they do, and I haven't played with them, but once I heard them say that, I was quick to adjust their expectations I think there might be a key difference between a player wanting to have fun and a player wanting to be entertained... Matt and his campaign are very entertaining, and I'm confident his players have tons of fun, but audience members can only be entertained by it, and that, I think, is kinda the expectation that goes behind the Mercer Effect... there might indeed be cases where players are not having fun and people are blaming the Mercer Effect for it, but I think saying it flat out doesn't exist is a bit simplistic
I've personally avoided the MME by playing with people who I *know* to be reasonable people, and generally good team players for the most part. It's not to say it doesn't exist, but there has to be some amount of vetting. Another way I've avoided it, is by introducing new players to the game; players who likely haven't watched any CR or know what it is, but have always had an interest in trying D&D out. Their idea of what it is might be different to what it *actually* is, but at least they're not saying 'But Matt does X.' I think to *some* degree this issue is the responsibility of the DM, by first vetting your players. We're all nerds here, but let's be real, we know what *some nerds* are like, and they aren't team players. It's not the DM's responsibility to 'fix' a player - just think about what that person would be like to play with at a table for three hours and ask yourself honestly if that'd be fun or not. Secondly, just explain the experience you're about to have in a session 0. Explain that you'll do your best to make the game as engaging as possible, and temper any expectations people might have that are unrealistic. One thing you can do that I find works too, is to explain the kind of game you play as a DM. 'I'm a relatively sympathetic DM, but don't expect everything to be achievable.' - This immediately makes players realise that this is *YOUR GAME* , not someone else's. They won't be thinking about Matt Mercer if you are assertive and relatively consistent about what your DM style is like.
I know what you were trying to do, but I switched off. I didn't really like my own video on Matt Mercer either, to be fair. I am waiting for the Magic Strawberry video ;)
tangential, but I think Matt's more than D-list, especially these days lol I personally didn't know much about him prior to CR, but there were a surprising amount of people who did, even a number of years ago, from his video game and anime voice acting roles. tangential to the tangent, Ashley Johnson has also played a number of very well known roles which I myself only realised in retrospect. Just cus you didn't know someone doesn't mean they aren't well known, 'spose. Especially applies to VAs I reckon, cus some people couldn't name a single one, while others can put a voice to a name from the smallest sentence.
I just recently subscribed, watched already quite a lot of videos. While the Mercer topic comes up bi-weekly, I quite liked the Self-Honesty part that had a more generic but useful advice, that I needed to hear for a long time now.
You immediately lost me within the first 15 seconds. You CANNOT DM for people that go into your game pre-emptively expecting to get the Critical Role experience. They have set themselves up for disappointment and can actively choose not to engage with material based on the fact that it's not meeting their expectations. That's the problem with the Matt Mercer effect. I mean, have you even LISTENED to a plethora of stories involving this issue? Most of them boil down to people who never even given the campaign they are in a CHANCE and ruin the experience for everyone else at the table having fun. "Your players are bored", bro, if you've actually been DM'ing for any measure of time, you would know you can't please everyone. Especially not people who aim to remain displeased. And I don't care what semantics you argue, after giving another minute of this video a whirl you LITERALLY address the fact that it is Critical Role bringing people into this hobby with unrealistic expectations of what the experience will be like... THAT IS LITERALLY THE MATT MERCER EFFECT. It's a term used to describe a phenomenon and you acknowledged that the phenomenon exists. Matt Mercer himself has even acknowledged its existence and agrees that it is an awful mentality for the hobby. Videos like this are so counterproductive; you've contributing to the problem rather than alleviating it. You want to actually help the issue? Here: "If you expect me to play like Matt Mercer then should I expect all of you to player like the professional actors lining his table?" There you go. That shuts down any counter argument someone could come up with and puts the pretentious nature of the issue into perspective.
why is noone talking about the Brennan Lee Mulligan effect? Amazingly paced episodic adventures that tie into an overarching campaing perfectly while exploring every PC's inner world. HOW CAN WE LIVE UP TO THAT?!
Every point was a banger fr. It feels mean to say but its true: the Mercer Effect isnt real, you're just bad at DMing. It's very easy to get good at DMing, all it takes is recognising you're bad at DMing. Taking getting better seriously is the cure to the Mercer effect. I feel this about most 5e critique tbh. It's an infinitely modular system designed to accept any homebrew you stick onto it. If your game isn't running how you want it to, the power is completely in your hands to change that. 5e combat isn't fun? My brother in christ, you were the one who put the single, high-CR enemy on the battlefield without any minions, cover, environmental hazards, spells, levels, magic items, custom abilities, story, personality, i could go on. Characters all feel the same? You made this character, dude! You are the one acting in this way! Same with the game as a whole. D&D has an infinite scope, it is bounded only by what you say it is, the whole game happens between your lips and their ears. If you or they aren't enjoying it then just say something different. If what you're doing isn't working then start scrutinising what it is that you are doing instead of languishing in your perceived inferiority to someone you are inexplicably jealous of. Matt's a good DM but it's not hard to be better than him. (Apart from the fact he runs for 7 people, no idea how he has the mental capacity to do that. Thats a stealth tip actually, try running for a smaller party if you feel overwhelmed)
The Matt Mercer Effect definitely is a thing, i've tried playing with Critters and every single time it has been a trainwreck exclusively due to their inability to just experience the game and enjoy it for what it is, they all came to the table with ridiculous expectations of what D&D is, ragging on the other players for not speaking in character and doing a voice etc. None of their complaints had anything to do with my GM skills, it exclusively came down to play style and mismatched expectations, that's it, and the best part is that none of them lived up to their own expectations either, which every single one of them was absolutely offended by when it was pointed out. Also 5e is not infinitely modular, it does one thing and one thing only, if you find the need to mod it beyond recognition you should probably play a different game, one that's better suited to your play style, instead of trying to force a square peg in to a round hole, there are better uses for ones time rather than trying to force 5e to be something that it´s not.
@@Daredhnu Arguing across terms here. The video and most people I've heard speak about it define the Mercer effect as unfair expectations put on the DM. The behaviour of the other players would be a separate Mercer-related issue. Players being rude about other players' gameplay sounds like playing with assholes rather than the Mercer effect. Also, making a small homebrew to make 5e do what you want it to is a much better use of your time than learning a new system. After the moment the homebrew is used in has passed, we are still playing 5e which is the game I want to play, I won't have wasted my time learning the stupid rules of a game I'm not gonna play again. Im not switching the game system to BitD just to run this heist. How many products do you expect me to buy? Will a conversation about dnd ever happen without someone making it about system wars?
@@Paddyhammer444 The Mercer Effect is not exclusively about Matt Mercer and his DM'ing skills, it's about Critical Role as a whole, it's just named after Matt since he's pretty much the face of Critical Role for better or worse because he's the DM, that's all, nor is it a new phenomenon, it's been around as long as people have been socializing, we all know a person who waxes lyrical about another DM or group of players and compares every gaming experience they have with those people, it's just that with Critical Role it's on a much grander scale since they've influenced the expectations of millions of people, rather than just a handful. I wholeheartedly agree that my bad experiences were at the hand of assholes, but they were assholes who had their expectations set by watching Critical Role, which is all that's required to be able to invoke the Matt Mercer Effect. Now as for other game systems, since you're so dead set on modding 5e to make it do things it was never designed to do, reading other systems might actually help you create half decent house-rules rather than abominations that should never see the light of day, so it's most definitely not a waste of time. All I did was point out there were much better uses of time than trying to make D&D 5e in to something that it's not, which was directly in response to you saying 5e was infinitely modifiable when it really isn't, while there are plenty of scenario's that 5e can facilitate, the only theme/tone 5e is good for is heroic high fantasy, that's it, it's basically a fantasy super hero game and an average one at that, considering they only bothered to flesh out 1 of 3 pillars of play, namely combat, the social and exploration pillars are woefully under supported, with no real mechanical systems in place to facilitate them, if you want to play anything other than a heroic high fantasy game, like a survival game, or a horror game you'd be best served by playing a different game, since in order to run a satisfying game with either of those example themes would require rewriting half of the core rules for the game at which point you'd be much better served playing a different game where you don't have to tear out half of the core systems of the game in order to get it to work the way you want, but hey if you want to struggle to force every situation in to your 5e game then have at it, I hope it works out for you, I really do.
I don't think that it's about acting skills. I have them, but I still have trouble roleplaying characters. I'm quite good when reading scripts, but not improv World problems are better fixed with pre-written campaigns.
Click Bait!!! Just for some important context, the Matt Mercer effect is nothing new. Watch Seth Skorkowsky's Video on the subject of the Matt Mercer effect or as he experienced it "Jeff, the greatest dungeon master alive!". He explains about expectations of the game the players bring and impose unrealistic ones at that onto the DM and consider them lacking. Its just called the Matt Mercer effect because he is just the most visual but this is a phenomena that is and always has been part of the hobby long before Critical roll existed. The assertion that The Matt Mercer effect is a lie is incorrect. It dose exist and no matter what it will always exist Matt is just the most visible and so his name just got tagged onto it. My mom taught me to play and she told me about the very same issue that we know as The Matt Mercer effect. Yes it is about unfair or miscommunicated expectations but that is still accurate to what the Matt Mercer effect is. What the Matt Mercer effect is in definition is: A player experiences what they consider a perfect or near-perfect game play session (be it online or in-person) and judge their current DM for not living up to those standards and expectations that session set. Tell me how this is a lie. People do this all the time. Its also known as "the grass is greener on the other side" mentality. Nothing will ever live up to perceived perfection and they feel unsatisfied with it.
My experience was when three of the other members of the group I was playing with went overboard with their critical role obsession. Pair of half elves whose home village was wiped out being the most notable another ran a Fallen Assimar but went with a Folk Hero Paladin not understanding what a Folk Hero is. To be fair he freaked out when he realised I'm actually a creative DM and unlike the other DM I'm not an asshole. Found that out when he screwed up the game he was touting just for a cheap shot. I ran the next game and since he wasn't using Exandria as a setting I did however my one shot was actually developing nicely into a campaign whilst his went from a campaign into a series of failed one shots because he couldn't keep his game straight as he liked taking pot shots such as repeating saves instead of focusing on running the game properly. I quit after he decided to jump settings because his obsession made him forget that can't happen without cooperation. All he had to do was just ask and allow me to finish what I had sent them via email and it would have been easy enough. Sadly he didn't give a damn about either game and I was tired of his stupidity. Been almost 3 years and I've still been trying to understand why he did that. THAT is the Critical Role Effect where morons thinking they know better try to use Critical Role as an excuse to avoid playing or running the game properly. Thats why I don't believe in the Matt Mercer Effect.
Good info and advice as always. I guess I had it wrong, I always thought the MME was that more people don’t try DMing because they feel they can’t live up to the “pro DMs” they see streaming.
That's probably some of it, but the bulk of Dungeon Masters who complain about Matt Mercer complain that their players are expecting Matt Mercer at the table, or complain that their games aren't like Matt mercer's.
@@DungeonMasterpiece it's more the CR effect. Matt is amazing, but that's amped by the backstories of the caste that clearly mesh well with Matt's lore, and they likely plan drama points to some degree. It's a level of immersion most DMs and players dont have time for. Yet, players or dms will want at least part of that level of that entertainment, but wont put in the engagement with each other, the backstory-worldlore coupling, or (for especially newer players) the monetary budget necessary.
All I know is that I myself unabashedly love to be emotive and demonstrative (( i.e. dramatic )) in my storytelling, and I believe that ((almost))every NPC is an opportunity for me to roleplay _with_ the players... That said... What Really Matters is that a DM/GM finds -- and nurtures -- their own voice and style...so long as they never forget that the players are intrinsic(( and invaluable )) to that...
"The Mercer Effect" is older than Mercer's celebrity. It's just getting worst with the trend of bashing the DMs. And this video is bashing the DMs too. Remember, WOTC makes more money with fake Players than real DMs.
Fake players HAHHAHAHA love it. I always say there are fifteen times as many players as there are dms. And 10 of those players will only ever play a game once
@@DungeonMasterpiece It's right. But we are at a time when some great players have only fantasize their character creation. I once had an endless tense discussion with a bunch of "experts" about a very bad subclass. I argued against the broken powers of level 10 and more. For them, I was THE DEVIL. After days, I finally learned that nobody read the rules and only one of them had played the subclass. He was level 4.
It's also worth noting that while this isn't that crew's only job, it is abl job they take seriously and really enjoy. And they spend a ton of time *as a group* talking about what they'd like to do and working on ideas as a group. It's not scripted, but these are friends who have known each other for a decade and build on each other.
The Matt Mercer effect is basically nonexistent in my country, first because the native language isn't english, and second, because ttrpgs in general were seeing a big revival here before D&D5e came out, so there aren't that many clueless beginners. But straight up denying the fact that discovering RPGs by critical role sets up unrealistic expectations for some people seems wrong to me. As for the rest, I dislike the time pressure thing. The story doesn't have to be that tense all the time to be engaging. I'd even say that putting a time pressure on the players is good only when not used all the time. It's a good way to put players back on track, but if they never leave the tracks (or if you're having fun with them doing whatever) then it's not needed I absolutely agree about your combat advice though. I never found an encounter below "deadly" by DMG standards to be challenging in this game. (For the few ones I calculated, most of the time I ignore it and put up what I think just might be too much. It's the sweet spot for me as a DM)
Another trick I've found to add urgency is to have tangible effects to the players' actions on the world you've developed. I'll use 5E Barovia as an example because it's already fleshed out enough for this -- if players _fail_ a mission, important NPCs die. It's that simple. When players fail a task, the _world_ is punished for it and by extension the players feel the agency slipping from their grasp. This isn't railroading. This is introducing consequences to one's actions.
@@DungeonMasterpiece it was online, but probably, what grinded my gears was that he was actually trying to "rail road me" into his world building sandbox when the adventure was supposed to be on a limited time table and we where about to face the BBEG lol
I kind of prefer Brandon Lee Mulligan from dimension 20 though I love the campaign he did with Matt Mercer. See I don't look at people like those guys and get intimidated I look at them and I see what I like and what I think would work for me as a DM and then I simply adopt those practices and then don't adopt the things that I don't like it's in the end it's all about having fun and finding your own style. I'm running my very first call of Cthulhu game right now and it's going great largely because yes I am using some of the style of other DMs that I like but also I am making sure to just have fun with it and really listen to my players and try to respond to them in real time with narrative changes
I can't say I've ever experienced the Matt Mercer effect regardless of how you define it. For some groups it may be because they started playing D&D before CR was a thing but I've run for some noob groups as well. At least in my experience it comes down to explicitly setting expectations. "This is an intrigue heavy game" or "this is a meat grinder dungeon crawl" or "this is a high roleplay melodrama." If what I'm running right now isn't your style then cool, no hard feelings. I'll see you next campaign or maybe we'll both play in a game with a different DM later.
I always argue that the matt mercer effect is more of "the critical role" effect. when I watch Matt run the CelebriD&D games, they have Matt's presentation style, but in a much more streamlined and beginner friendly game. I base my own DMing style on that. entertain, but don't bog down.
I had no idea what the “Matt Mercer effect” was. As for what disappointed me in my first couple d&d sessions…that would be the DM’s railroading and a lack interest in _cooperative_ story telling. The story the DM was trying to tell basically didn’t require us at all. He was trying to be the DM and a player at the same time. I think I did more research for the session than he did.
That's how plot driven stories kinda work, rather than character driven stories. Not everyone is good at interacting with character backstories, or with social objectives, which is more CR style. Many play dnd more like a wargame with a story attached, something I do to a certain degree. It also has to do with how good the party is at making their character match the lore, which CR caste does well.
@@orionar2461 We weren’t even really a part of the plot. At one point we were trying to buy supplies and I guess he got bored and sent our two NPC companions on a castle heist without even giving us a chance to join.
@@Amaranthyne aight that is kinda weird. On the other hand, those NPCs may have had their own goals, which stopped aligning with the party. I dont know the details.
I've never heard of he matt mercer effect as a in game issue, only as a preventitive issue IE people don't want to play until they have everything matt mercer does.
I've seen/heard about the Matt Mercer effect about DMs and players. Indeed trying to emulate Critical Role in it's entirety. What bother's me more is not that they try to copy it, but that these playgroups think that CR is the end all be all of D&D. They try to force themselves into that mold. "Roleplay is doing the voice" and "A campaign is about exploring a complex world". These are just aspects of roleplay and they deprive themselves of different types of stories and roleplay experiences because "that's not what 'good' D&D looks like". The Matt Mercer effect, to me, is not people forcing others to comply to Critical Role. It's people restricting themselves to be like CR, thus limiting their expressive freedom.
Matt Mercer effect definitely exists but its not exclusive to "having fun". Its about players expecting all D&D games to play like Critical Role. I had a player who was obsessed with Critical Role and didn't complain that my campaign wasn't fun, just that it wasn't like Critical Role, and that's just not how all games are ran. The same player argued a rule with me "because that's how its done in critical role" and I'm like, well the official rules says otherwise. Critical Role has its own homebrew rules and I think the player assumed Critical Role's way is 100% by the rules and the correct way.
its more on not understanding what realisiically tabletop roleplaying is. the mercer (or now live play with others existing) effect is usually new players into tabletop gaming. they assumed the way those roleplayers and gm responds is the standard of every table group. when they eventually join and see its not what they think it is either A. they over roleplay in hope they can compensate for lack of rp happening in group[. 2. start telling gm/players how ppl in said live play they watch act and see if they can become like them. 3. if none of those then either they enter full murder hobo or leave. those ppl need to understand this: those liveplays like critical roll, dimension 20, glass cannon and such they do what they can because its around a field of work they know which is usually acting/improve for theater or shows. of course they know how to fully rp naturally since they used to it and they are not even 1% of total tabletop groups. the remaining 99% and truthfully is the avg person with limited time to play due to work, super nerds that dont know to socialize but do ttrpgs as gateway to socialize and other similar cases. it is what is.
I've never heard from one person who has experienced this "effect." It's al third-hand stories. Regarding kicking out players, hey even Critical Role has done that.
Neither do I. Actually I've seen much more hate against CR or anithing that is published using the brand CR or have the name Matt Mercer involved. Thats not to say that there aren't a lot of toxicity on CR fandom, cause there are
It's prevalent in online places specifically reddit and sometimes uncommonly roll20. People tend to be reasonable but if you try a little you will succeed in finding such a person.
Whenever I hear players talking about that a GM has to be like Matt Mercer, I hope they are players as good as the ones Matt Mercer has on his table. ;-)
Hahaha! Tell your player's "you are not Marisha Ray and I am not complaining about that" XDDDD. Good one!
Well...are the players clever...or do they RP like it's a soap opera. Long monologues are not a measure of quality necessarily.
I've had players at a 6 yr long table who didn't necessarily RP like actors, but they were clever, inventive, mature with consequences, funny, and contributed to play. That, to me, is far more valuable than a player who can do 12 accents and looks like a model.
Or paid to be there
100% agree. I honestly dont think Matt is the be all and end all - but the game is quite spectacular due to the collaborative efforts of the group.
If only people could take THAT message from CR that would be fantastic
@@GrimSqueaker good point!
I feel like you´re missing the point slightly, the Matt Mercer Effect refers to mismatched expectations on the part of certain players, expecting every game of D&D to be like an episode of Critical Role and holding everyone at the table to ridiculous standards they themselves more often than not fail to meet, these sorts of players come to a game of D&D expecting to be entertained by everyone else at the table instead of to have fun playing a game, they're not actually open to trying to experience authentic D&D.
I've personally come across dozens of these people and been forced to eject them from my game, every single one of them has been a detriment to the groups enjoyment of the game as a whole, they did nothing but complain about superficial nonsense, ragging on my other players for not speaking in character and doing a voice etc. I'm always open to constructive criticism and offering my players what they want but these people just want to have their own personal performance from Critical Role starring themselves.
This exactly. Even as someone who almost never thinks about the Matt Mercer effect, hearing this video ignore the point and focus on telling the lowest common denominator of DM the equivalent of "Git Gud, scrub" is, at best, unhelpful and uninteresting compared to the rest of his content. At worst, it's annoying to see him dismiss the problem as just coming from low quality DMing and a lack of willingness to kick out problem players.
@@AlphaOmega1237 I’ve yet to experience this at my tables but probably because I discourage the MME before we get to the table without even having to say so. I always say “roleplaying is making moves based on your character’s perspective, not yours, and doesn’t require an accent to do so”. I do think homie missed this in the video.
I’m genuinely curious what dm is churning through dozens of players who stands to gain only from the most constructive and well-thought out of criticism and all the churn was clueless CR zealots. I could be wrong but I couldn’t see myself being able to dm for long if I couldn’t settle in with a good group or two pretty quickly.
@@jmass4207 well dozens was slight hyperbole, it was only like 15 players and I slowly collected good players while sorting through the trash.
Also I've been DM'ing for decades at this point so I wouldn't give up just because the last 5 years or so have been terrible
In generally like CR and Mercer, but remember that Mercer has a lot of time to prepare. Its effectively his job. If you had 40 hours to get ready for a game night, you could probably have a better game. Its like comparing your garage band to U2. One band makes millions of dollars, the other band makes $100 three times a year. They both play the same basic instruments but their objectives are very different.
Love the Professor DM cameo! I definitely have a thing for the goofy jackasses in a blazer pontificating about how to have fun with my friends.
The thing is, everyone sees it as a different thing.
The real Matt Mercer effect, but it's more like a general trend in D&D in particular over time, is that now you get players who develop these super complex characters and get genuinely attached to them practically before they've started a game. We've gone from "roll up three characters because two of them will probably die in the first gauntlet" to "oh god, I accidentally killed a character in Lost Mines of Phandelver". There's a lot of pressure to give people the *illusion of danger* without it truly being there, and at low levels that's just not how 5e works. It isn't that I'm chomping at the bit to kill PCs, it's that I'm terrified of not fudging rolls because there's a lot of people who react like I'm being an asshole for, you know, playing the game.
That's the Mercer Effect. And it isn't an inherently negative thing, it isn't a *universal* thing, it's just a general cultural shift, along with the divide between what 5e was initially designed to be good at and what many people use it for causing something akin to a pre-Edition War (which has essentially been caused by 5e eating the RPG market and people not realizing or caring that there's other games.)
This might be the most well thought out, observant, and refreshing comment I have gotten on this video. You honestly illustrated something that I hadn't quite thought of.
I think I might make a second video inspired by this observation.
@@DungeonMasterpiece Oh, wow, cool.
I started to think about this stuff after my first attempts at playing TTRPGs (and DMing) were awkward, failed run-throughs of LMoP and Hoard of the Dragon Queen. I've hardly had a chance to play since then, but the weird tension between what I thought of D&D as and how it played out in reality (as someone who struggles to ignore rules) made me read about a lot of other systems and how these games are very different things to different people.
@@colbyboucher6391 I have another video up (what Colville missed: language, rules, narrative contracts) that talks about this very thing
Combat isn't even supposed to be balanced
The CR system is there to help NOT tpk
I mean, yeah, but I'm still kind of hung up on the time I had a player tell me that I was wrong about the gods in my setting because I didn't use Matt Mercer's pantheon
OOF, that's fucking hilariously dumb. I'm sorry you had to deal with someone like that.
I would just remember though what they said is just kid-brain logic, so it's not something worth hanging on to. Just a really dumb individual who might have even been a literal child.
I'm hung up on players telling me I don't have Matt Mercer's hair...
I have to take a stance of measured disagreement with the thesis that the Matthew Mercer Effect does not exist. I've had players who requested I make the game more like Critical Role, or complained that I did things differently than Matthew Mercer. I've also been a player to DMs who mention that Critters make for terrible D&D players because of their expectations.
However, I can acknowledge that not every DM who complains about the MME are being completely honest with how these interactions went down. And I do agree that not every player is a good fit for every table. Not many tables have sessions that are played like episodes of Critical Role. Players who love to roleplay, stay in character and enjoy immersive worldbuilding can find tables that offer that experience.
I think you misunderstood the central point of the video. Saying "It doesn't exist" seemed to me more like an abridgement of saying, "These complaints people make simply come from their inability to communicate about d&d without referencing CR or Matt Mercer, making them the symptom, not the cause of the effect."
I would say it's more the Critical Role effect than the Matt Mercer effect. While he is the epitome of what most players want in a DM, I think people in general fail to realize that he's half, or less, of the equation. Everyone on CR is a voice actor; they professionally take on other characters/roles for the jobs. They can all voice act and commit to it 100% without fearing they'll sound dumb or out of place, etc. That's what keeps most people from committing too much to the roleplay. Since everyone on CR voice act during their games, people feel like that is a critical part of playing D&D, it isn't. And one of the biggest factors, if not the biggest, is that each of the characters has an in-depth complex background that Matt is able to bring up during the entire campaign. This is critical for players to feel invested. If Matt Mercer seriously DM'd a group of non-voice actors that only had 1 or 2 general background details like most at-home games, and we watched it, it wouldn't be nearly as fun to watch for all of those reasons. Personally, I think Matt is a legendary DM because of all of those things he has under his belt; the voice acting which adds immersion, the imagination of a true fantasy nerd, a very high level understanding of the game, rules, great improvisation ability, and now the ability to play in a large commerical building/room with all the minis and dwarven forge mini buildings he wants. But his status as a DM is heightened even more because all of his players are near or on the same level as him.
There are actually some games where he DMs for other groups. Usually one-shots. He's still great at it, but as you said, it isn't the masterful show you see when he's playing with his main group.
I don't think you can just dismiss this stuff outright. In my early days of GMing (within a year of Critical Role starting), my first real group would *constantly* compare everything to CR. It was honestly kinda ridiculous, and even though I don't remember any direct cases of people comparing *me* to Mercer, there were quite a few times what I was *doing* was directly compared to how Mercer handled things
This is why I dont DM for CR fans lol
That must have felt miserable :/ Even if they might say something positive your work and ideas is just reduced to "this is just like Matt," or "Matt did this better."
Matt also wrote several books for the backstory and setting of his campaign, something most normal people wouldn't consider for their DnD campaigns unless they were getting paid to do it. That shit is expensive and time consuming.
Let them know they're free to create their own custom monsters and abilities for those monsters and a setting for a city they might visit for 10 minutes. Backstory for the villains that makes sense with the rest of the story and setting along with believeable plot hooks to bring them in and then develop relations for the NPC's they decide to kill on a whim within 3 seconds of saying "hello".
Let them take the reins for once. Just have all the players DM just for you. and you do everything you can to fuck it up. As a DM you will know exactly the best ways to do this.
It will be educational.
I think once people become more aware of the huge amount of work DMing takes they are humbled a bit.
If you haven't already you should check out Seth Skorkowsky's video on The Story of Jeff. It will speak to your experience more than this did.
The Mercer effect is more of a player problem than a DM problem. It has to do with expectations. Mercer and other narrative DMs prepped those future players who only watched games instead of actually playing any. They show up expecting the voices that not everyone can do, combats with expensive minis and dwarven Forge terrain, and a crew of supporting actors.
This places new DMs in a heavy burden of expectations.
You're right. There are ways around this. I personally got around this by establishing my own ways of engaging the table that aren't Mercer's methods. But I have 43 years of experience.
I always suggest that players and DMs looking for different methods take the time to observe more than CR shows. Colville, Perkins, Holkins and others have radically different styles, and that's just online. Sit in others' games if you can. Steal tricks. Decide for yourselves what your style is and be willing to adapt and grow.
Each DM is different and its all about leaning into your strengths. Matts good at the voices and immersion, that may not be your strong suit. Find the area of the game that gives you and most juice, and squeeze it for all its got.
This. The video should have been more explicit that this was the way to DM.
"Squeeze Rabban"
It's not even that mercer is that good at immersion.
He just rambles on and on and on how a certain location looks like.
Keeping it vague is sometimes better, every player it already differently looking in his mind, and so just bablling on and on and on, destroys whatever picture they have in their mind.
This is no different than new players coming into the game having watched Game of Thrones, read LOTR or played Diablo or Skyrim. Matt does a great job, but so do soap opera production staff. There are always some pearls there, but in the end, each group is unique and develops a style. Thanks for the great commentary, as always.
Yeah, players want to RP with a profession improv actor who does voices for a living, and have tactical combats with brilliant terrain and professionally painted figures. And they want a world built so well that Wizards of the Coast bought it as a world setting for their game, they're asking for the three pillars of gaming to the exact standards they've seen on Critical Role but that's somehow not the Matt Mercer Effect? I'll grant you that the Matt Mercer Effect is overblown as a problem but I deal with New RPG players all the time that have come into the hobby from media influences and have unrealistic expectations of what is commonly available at a table. I've seen the other end of the Matt Mercer Effect. I've seen a hobby that has at times been very lazy focusing on presentation and story and roleplay post Critical Role. So I struggle to believe the Matt Mercer Effect is somehow in everyone's head.
This seems less of a “Matt Mercer effect doesn’t exist” video and more of a “how to offset the Matt Mercer effect”
yeah obviously the phenomenon of critical roll poisoning new players' expectations does exist its just that its not the main issue. clickbait strikes again
Love Professor Dungeonmaster, but I might have a new favorite DM channel. As for the Matt Mercer effect, I tell players this: "Learning D&D from watching professional actors play for the camera is like learning about sex by watching professional porn stars. You might get unrealistic expectations."
I agree with your individual points. I do say that I have to agree with your your basic statement but not in the way that you say. I very much believe there is a tendency for players to compare DMs and have encountered many players who have some glorious, nostalgia-elevated experience with a particular DM that they rate all others again. I think Seth Skorkowsky's video on "Jeff" frames this pretty well in his usual entertaining style.
This said, I think it is a bit harsh to say that a DM is necessarily doing something wrong if his players are comparing him to Matt Mercer or any other DM for that matter. In a recent experience, I played with a player for years, even formed an out of game friendship with him, collaborated on projects and let him infuse my campaign with his own creativity, only to have him explode on me and call me a "shit DM who never gave him anything to work with". Again, all of your points are good ways to address those who would sing this song, but in the end, some players just expect too much or will never be happy because of unrealistic expectations.
TL;DR: This video is a great way to handle it, but it is a thing.
I agree with moat points here, however, I think whether or not the M Effect exist depends on how one defines it.
I always understood it to be when players (typically new ones) only understand D&D in the context of CR and expect each and every session they are in to conform to their preconceived notions not taking into account the experience of their DM compared to MM and the production value of CR.
At best they just don't have the language for what they really want in a game.
At worst, they're toxic and won't let go of their preconceived notions.
I'd say 8/10 times it is a language issue as you address here, but there are some seriously unreasonable people out there.
As someone who couldn’t quite express my displeasure with an old group’s style, this video and these comments are really self-medicating haha
However, these unreasonable people would have been unreasonable anyways even if youtube didn't exist and Matt Mercer never did any public games.
I know they were serious points but the delivery cracked me up
Well said and well done
It absolutely exists. I had a player who had never played D&D before, and ended up comparing the games we played, audibly out loud, to Matt Mercer's, and how it didn't match up. I've seen it in action.
There were other people in the same game who had plenty of fun, and that player DID end up enjoying D&D for what it is. It just took some time.
I'm not saying that player is representative of a larger whole, but since I've got first hand experience with this, I'm gonna go ahead and speak my peace.
Matt Mercer effect is real, and if it wasn't, people wouldn't talk about it. The criticsism that CR misrepresents the hobby is also hard to argue with: real D&D is not fun to watch, its fun to play.
Not saying either are bad, but when it comes to DM's having to be compared to a TV show, you know you're gonna hear us bitch.
If it wasn’t real, people wouldn’t talk about it? That’s the most nonsensical argument I’ve ever heard. It’s the Protestors Fallacy. “Well they must have a good point, if so many people are complaining about it!” Obviously flawed logic.
CR is real DND. You need to get past that. And your players need to realize that most dnd games don’t have the budget or talent that Mercer does, and that’s fine too. Trying to pit fans against one another is not the answer.
I simply had them surrounded by darkness with death like screaming playing in the background. They tightened up after that 😅u don't need silly voices when you can just play audio from UA-cam
Excuse you, he's a D&D-list celebrity, thank you very much.
I understand where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. I had one Matt Mercer player ever but it was definitely not one I feel this video would solve. We were doing an Eberron game in 4e. It was his first game. He was playing a Warforged. He constantly felt I didn't do enough to engage his character. So, I honestly just asked him what he'd like to see more of in the game. I always end my sessions asking for feedback for the next session. He couldn't verbalizr an answer. I said I understood because he was new. So, I tried everything: intense social scenes, big combat, hijinx, epic quest hooks. Like five sessions of going through a lot of different styles of scenes that his character could get involved with and his response were things like "all your characters have the same voice" and "why do we have to use these cheap minis" and "why do you make maps on graph paper" and "why should I care about this character?" And I tried to address them but it was running me ragged. I asked the other players, who enjoyed the game, and they basically told me that I had tried a lot and the guy just wasn't being reasonable. One of the other players was a long time friend and the other was a co-worker who was new to D&D and was loving it. We eventually just asked the guy to leave and asked if anyone else at the hobby shop wanted to join. It improved the game as we got a Shifter Druid who ended up more willing to play ball.
I use time like it was used in Ravnica. My campaign is set in a living world. If players are told that an orc horde was spotted in Neverwinter Wood and they need to get backup for fear of a town raid, the clock starts.
If they get to it, they are able to defend the town. If they take their time, then they show up just in time. Think when allies show up just as the siege attack begins. If they do nothing or think they have forever, like it's a video game, then they will come to find the orcs in the middle of destruction or have newly taken the city.
Running DoIP (dragon of icespire peak) and they didn't want to take rations to the loggers camp. When they returned after another quest, asking to take the rations, they were told another adventuring party already set out a few days ago.
I haven't experienced the MM effect but I DM a 1on1 campaign and the other is for my wife and kids.
Family dnd is the best
@@DungeonMasterpiece yes. Never a scheduling issue. Plus the rule of cool is rule number 1
Son wanted to turn and run, while swinging his staff to attack. Let him, with disadvantage, half movement speed and if he missed the goblin got an opportunity attack
Very interesting to read the comments! In my country Critical Role is not that famous (language barrier, i'm brazilian), and most of all i don't like D&D at all, i play other games, like Blades in the Dark and Ironsworn (just to give examples), so i don't have any problem akin to "mercer effect" (never even heard about that, also i never watched that show), but it is VERY interesting to see how much of a impact this series have on the US (and other english speaking countries i guess). Also it's interesting to see that even through there's much more different systems in english, and a much more player base, seems to me that D&D is more hegemonic (you guys even say "D&D" when you mean RPG as a whole) in other countries than here.
You're advice to keep the pressure on applied to the filming of this video, from the microsecond you hit the notification the video opens with the starting pistol of an opening and is a graceful dash to the end.
Excellent work.
Thank you!
the golden rule is never forget the DM is just another player ! all the players are responsible for fun around the table. comunicate and dont forget to love each other
Most of my players, with a couple of exceptions, are old grognards like myself, so that's not really a thing. I'm not sure all of them even know who Matt Mercer is.
Matt Mercer has said there is no Matt Mercer Effect. That's just how he happens to like playing.
But I noticed when I was playing Star Wars back in the West End Game days. The quality of the immersion and storytelling depend on how well-read the DM was. You can only do variations of the movies so many times.
Matt Mercer has acknowledged the Matt Mercer effect, though. I think we're both thinking of the same Reddit post he made, and when he says "our style of play is just that...our style of play," he's not saying that the Mercer Effect isn't real, he's acknowledging it and saying that every table is different and CR's shouldn't be used as the gold standard. He goes on to say that it's not just the DM's responsibility to contribute to the experience and manage expectations, it's everybody's.
@@Eamil Mercer effect is mostly a result of ill-informed, lazy, and/or entitled ppl who expect to be spoonfed what dnd is and to receive a professional-level game
these are a list of traits that some players want, but the matt Mercer effect is more than just traits some people just believe that critical role is the average DND game, that is the matt Mercer effect, it's expectations that cannot be met.
Seeing some Miniac influence in this video haha. Nice!
Also came out swinging “some D list actor”
I'm not used to him being so sassy, but he's spitting
Just removed 2 people from my game and the next session was described as the best he’s ever played in by one of the remaining players. No ill will toward those other 2, but they were actually ruining my games.
Man, for some reason, flipping your glasses backwards makes you look like an entirely different person. Trippy.
Miniac taught me that one
It reminds me of Golum 🙃
@@DungeonMasterpiece True, he does it to great effect!
Great video. I really enjoyed these takes on it. Ironically as the DM, I’m the one that’s seen CR more than anyone and I’m the one that feels the game is never good enough because on it. My standards are to high and this definitely helped lower them to a healthy level.
Immediately subscribed.
Love the low key miniac impression.
Wait, what. THAT WASN'T SCOTT?
low key? High key!
I'm surprised with the main point. The one big criticism I get from my players is that I do put too much pressure on them making everything time gated. We now started a new campaign in which I gave them much more freedom and feel less hurried to accomplish their goals. I hope they don't end up bored!
There are two things players will always complain about: change, and the way things are. 🤣
I've found this chanel just a couple of days ago, and its so magnificent that I cannot believe it. Thanks a lot.
One of the best things I learned from screenwriting classes is how to amp up story pressure using timelocks. Using the story circle and setting the emotional touchstones makes it easier to keep people invested.
For me, the main issue is honestly finding games due to my short schedule, working a lot mainly during the week, on top of being in Australia, so timezones make it difficult as well. When I search for games online through the standard platforms such as Roll20, the majority of them are now paid games for some reason. I've seen the constant mentality of "Oh, D&D is just meant to be for fun!" and all, and I completely get that, but when payment gets involved, that mindset gets changed and expectations are different.
I'm still on the fence about paying for D&D games, but if I were to pay $20 a week for a game, then yeah, I better expect a solid GM/DM really willing to put in that work. I don't expect them to be Matt Mercer, but I'm expecting a similar quality.
Of course, this is just if I were to cave into paying for games, which I really don't want to, but free games fill up really fast and it's hard to find one.
I see it not as thr mercer effect but the Matt effect. I take from other DM's what I think is cool or could better myself and leave the things that are not my style or out of reach.
You put into words what is hanging as floating topics in my mind. Very big thanx sir.
The problem has nothing to do with GMs being of poor quality and wanting to blame Matt Mercers success for it, its about a certain new kind of player who expects the table to be optimized towards the extent to which an external audience would view the game as having "high art legitimacy" and being worthy of their time if this game was live streamed to an audience. They get angry when people don't do voice actor quality vocal work, they harshly judge the GM if they dare to stutter, they're basically anti social and care about this imaginary "high art legitimacy" of the game more than the experience of anyone there.
This is the equivalent of someone who is having sex for the first time and is lashing out because it isn't like the pornography they've been watching. It's not only an unfair expectation on everyone else at the table, it's not just rude but the end result they want isn't even desirable. It isn't desirable because the former is deeply personal and about the people involved, the second is a product for the benefit of an audience. It becomes a problem when a player expects your game to be a product, or a GM is expecting their players to primarily exist as an accessory to help them make a product. That's what the Matt Mercer effect is about.
"Just give them a social encounter." "Use this simple recipy to spice up your combat encounters." You make it sound so easy and maybe it is to you.
Truth is: It's NOT easy. Not for me and many DMs out there. It becomes even more daunting when we also have to juggle the responsibility of being the moderator and manager for the game.
One point that is often overlooked: Matt Mercer also does a really great job moderating the sessions and managing the players at the table. It's hard to have fun with the game when half the session is spent either waiting for someone else to make their move, discussing rules, or even off-topic small talk. And I admit, I've been the GM for some of these.
Unfortunately, moderating and time management are tough skills to learn. But I would say it is even more important than coming up with the perfect encounter design or doing amazing voice acting.
New to the channel. I love a lot of what you're saying. I get what you're saying about time. I used to DM/play in RPGA. They broke their Adventures down into 4 hour sessions... and the general rule is that the party has at least one engaging encounter per hour of real time. I have always used this as a general rule unless it really breaks up an engaging RP...
I have actually been at a session where a newer player tried the Matt Mercer argument, but they were trying to use it to ask for something in character creation that was way outside the rules, and they swore if our DM was as good as Mercer, that he would "allow it". Yeah, right.
I’ll add one I encountered with my players (my houses teens): “we don’t know what to do” they literally freeze up if given more than one or two choices in things to make their objectives, and they struggle with how to accomplish them once chosen. I solved this by giving them mentors or superiors to give them temporary and vague directions. Meanwhile, I’m letting them find things of interest to them on the way and offer those as quest hooks to them when their boss has nothing for them. It usually takes about 4 or 6 sessions in a campaign for them to start spreading wings and taking things into their own hands where the mentor/boss can take solid steps back and let them run with a general direction
I've seen this talked about online to death, but I've personally never dealt with it and I'm the only one that hasn't watched the show extensively in my group. I guess I'm either doing something right or we just have a good time regardless of how the session goes because we're all friends. I can definitively attest to the time limit though. Nothing makes a bigger impact than when you forecast a time limit to something bad. I ran a story line where the PC's uncovered an assassination plot of an elven diplomat that would most likely take place at a peace talk in 5 days time. They spent their five days chasing leads all over town leading to hidden assassins, wererats in the sewers attempting to funnel in enemy soldiers , necromancer dealings, and even a slumbering tarrasque. At the end it was clear there was still danger, but they were able to see the effects of their investigation that ultimately helped them win the day, but with the consequences of their earlier failed investigations being apparent with some friendly casualties and a very close call for one of the PC's. It was a good time
I watched CR season one as the first episodes were coming out. I introduced two of my players to CR and they have watched it ever since, I stopped after season two pretty much. We had a blast of a campaign that extended over two years and my players said I was the best GM they'd ever had. It was 90% combat. If the Matt Mercer effect exists, it's not as common as people make it out to be on Reddit/UA-cam.
Assuming the Matt Mercer effect does not exist in the way most people think about it I am still a little intimidated by the production value of the show, even when I know that it's not why my players are coming to my table.
OOOHHH now THATS something to explore! The Critical Role Production Team Effect! Because THAT is real.
@@DungeonMasterpiece with their battery of like 40+ staff yeah. That kind of polish is damn near impossible to match. Rightly so, because we see the finished product.
A good book to reference this topics solutions in more detail is Traci Hickman’s XDM. Each point is discussed in detail. Great job on the video by the way!
I've wanted to make this video for some time. Great video. I would add in addition to the player not having 'good communication skills', perhaps the DM doesn't have 'good people handling skills'. Setting expectations goes a long way to avoiding player disappointment.
Two of my players GM. They help a lot as do I when I'm a player. We all want it to be fun and if they want me to add something I usually do or explain why I won"t :)
At least you didn’t say he didn’t bring people into the hobby.
Some good tips there
The time constraints are good ideas always.
Ppl should always be welcome to dnd. But doesnt mean we shouldnt shit on trash players
Wow I wish this video existed 20 years ago...
Great tips!
Great video! Gives GMs (and players) a lot to digest to make their own game better.
Anytime I've encountered people who talk their games not turning out like Critical Role, it's usually in reference to the characters. I'd argue this actually very little to do with the DM, and more to do with the dynamic of the players themselves and their expectations. The DM can certainly encourage certain types of behavior or try to remove problem players, but that's not a reasonable solution for every game group. Fostering a good player dynamic in my experience starts at character creation, having a good session 0 and honestly, whether or not your group has any chemistry outside of the game. People get different things out of playing D&D, and it's a difficult balance trying to appeal to every single person at a table, which is why I tend to prefer games with fewer players in general, and it'd be my recommendation to start smaller (3-4 players) if you are a newer DM. Three players is still my preferred number, as most of the people I play with really enjoy long, well thought out planning sessions, and when the player count is low, those players get more individual time to contribute to a plan, and a higher chance that the plan being executed without distractions.
I would think Matt would fall into at least a C list celebrity.
He’s an extremely prolific and well accomplished voice actor, along with CR.
But yes, your points are spot on!
He also has The Legend of Vox Machina on Amazon Prime after raising millions from crowd funding so I'd say B list now.
Okay, I have never heard of the Matt Mercer effect. None of those complaints sounded like complaints. I love all those things Matt does and would hope to do much the same in my world, but every solution you provided seems like the sort of things Matt does as well. Matt has the basics down smooth which is why, perhaps, people confuse the flourish he offers as being the substance or magic ingredient. I loved all these suggestions you provided by the way, and think they will help me be a better DM. The thing you really pointed out to me was how to better know my players, which will ultimately make a better game. Thanks
Parting ways is very healthy and natural. I started playing RPGs with a certain group of players, they're all still my friends (because why would we stop being friends?) About 2 years in our interests in games diverged so we don't play together anymore. RPGs that is, we'll still play minecraft and other things occasionally. So now I play with other groups, who are also my friends. It's just that simple.
The thing about Matt Mercer is the passion and effort he puts into his games, from the story to the range of NPC encounters. Furthermore, he has a pleasant narrative voice, and he can provide vivid imaginative descriptions without it being overly flowery or pretentious, and speaking as a writer, achieving this balance is a pretty big deal. Then you have lots of little things that come from years of practice and experience. You're right that he's a modest-level actor, but that doesn't matter. It's only a small part of what he does as a DM, and the voices and mannerisms he provides is more than enough to make the experience suitably immersive.
The fact is, if Critical Role is the first thing people see of D&D (and for a lot of people, it is), it absolutely will have an effect on one's perception and expectations of the game. Even if it's just a case of amateurs comparing themselves to an expert, rather than being specifically a Mercer thing, it doesn't make the effect any less real. You do have some perfectly valid points about addressing it, but it would've come across a lot better if the premise was understanding and dealing with it, rather than just saying it doesn't exist.
BTW, there is one other thing to consider. If someone is overly pre-occupied with making their game like the show, it's possible that they're simply entertained by the players/show, rather than the actual game itself. Ask yourself, what interests you more, the experience of playing the game, or the fantasy of being a group of skilled performers?
I don't know... never encountered this fenomenon myself, fortunately... but I'm pretty sure there are people out there who expect DMs to indeed behave like Matt Mercer... Hell, I've talked to people who have said they do, and I haven't played with them, but once I heard them say that, I was quick to adjust their expectations
I think there might be a key difference between a player wanting to have fun and a player wanting to be entertained... Matt and his campaign are very entertaining, and I'm confident his players have tons of fun, but audience members can only be entertained by it, and that, I think, is kinda the expectation that goes behind the Mercer Effect... there might indeed be cases where players are not having fun and people are blaming the Mercer Effect for it, but I think saying it flat out doesn't exist is a bit simplistic
I've personally avoided the MME by playing with people who I *know* to be reasonable people, and generally good team players for the most part. It's not to say it doesn't exist, but there has to be some amount of vetting. Another way I've avoided it, is by introducing new players to the game; players who likely haven't watched any CR or know what it is, but have always had an interest in trying D&D out. Their idea of what it is might be different to what it *actually* is, but at least they're not saying 'But Matt does X.'
I think to *some* degree this issue is the responsibility of the DM, by first vetting your players. We're all nerds here, but let's be real, we know what *some nerds* are like, and they aren't team players. It's not the DM's responsibility to 'fix' a player - just think about what that person would be like to play with at a table for three hours and ask yourself honestly if that'd be fun or not. Secondly, just explain the experience you're about to have in a session 0. Explain that you'll do your best to make the game as engaging as possible, and temper any expectations people might have that are unrealistic. One thing you can do that I find works too, is to explain the kind of game you play as a DM. 'I'm a relatively sympathetic DM, but don't expect everything to be achievable.' - This immediately makes players realise that this is *YOUR GAME* , not someone else's. They won't be thinking about Matt Mercer if you are assertive and relatively consistent about what your DM style is like.
I know what you were trying to do, but I switched off. I didn't really like my own video on Matt Mercer either, to be fair. I am waiting for the Magic Strawberry video ;)
I saw that Dogs reference!
🐕🦺🐕🦺🐩🐕🐶🐾🍇🍇🍇🍷🍷🍷🍾
@@DungeonMasterpiece 🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖🤖
tangential, but I think Matt's more than D-list, especially these days lol
I personally didn't know much about him prior to CR, but there were a surprising amount of people who did, even a number of years ago, from his video game and anime voice acting roles. tangential to the tangent, Ashley Johnson has also played a number of very well known roles which I myself only realised in retrospect. Just cus you didn't know someone doesn't mean they aren't well known, 'spose. Especially applies to VAs I reckon, cus some people couldn't name a single one, while others can put a voice to a name from the smallest sentence.
He's less famous than Tila Tequila in both search trends and web site page mentions. That's my floor for d-list.
I just recently subscribed, watched already quite a lot of videos. While the Mercer topic comes up bi-weekly, I quite liked the Self-Honesty part that had a more generic but useful advice, that I needed to hear for a long time now.
I just found this channel a few weeks ago. Where have you been? I love your videos
solid vid, great advised, i love the plug for PDM and Jacob. all yall make this game better
You immediately lost me within the first 15 seconds.
You CANNOT DM for people that go into your game pre-emptively expecting to get the Critical Role experience.
They have set themselves up for disappointment and can actively choose not to engage with material based on the fact that it's not meeting their expectations.
That's the problem with the Matt Mercer effect. I mean, have you even LISTENED to a plethora of stories involving this issue? Most of them boil down to people who never even given the campaign they are in a CHANCE and ruin the experience for everyone else at the table having fun. "Your players are bored", bro, if you've actually been DM'ing for any measure of time, you would know you can't please everyone. Especially not people who aim to remain displeased.
And I don't care what semantics you argue, after giving another minute of this video a whirl you LITERALLY address the fact that it is Critical Role bringing people into this hobby with unrealistic expectations of what the experience will be like... THAT IS LITERALLY THE MATT MERCER EFFECT. It's a term used to describe a phenomenon and you acknowledged that the phenomenon exists. Matt Mercer himself has even acknowledged its existence and agrees that it is an awful mentality for the hobby. Videos like this are so counterproductive; you've contributing to the problem rather than alleviating it.
You want to actually help the issue?
Here: "If you expect me to play like Matt Mercer then should I expect all of you to player like the professional actors lining his table?"
There you go. That shuts down any counter argument someone could come up with and puts the pretentious nature of the issue into perspective.
First reaction: "Haha a dude in a suit giving DnD advice haha"
30 Minutes later: *Busy taking notes and bookmarking his videos, also a subscriber now*
why is noone talking about the Brennan Lee Mulligan effect? Amazingly paced episodic adventures that tie into an overarching campaing perfectly while exploring every PC's inner world. HOW CAN WE LIVE UP TO THAT?!
Gen x parents vs boomer parents
Every point was a banger fr. It feels mean to say but its true: the Mercer Effect isnt real, you're just bad at DMing. It's very easy to get good at DMing, all it takes is recognising you're bad at DMing. Taking getting better seriously is the cure to the Mercer effect.
I feel this about most 5e critique tbh. It's an infinitely modular system designed to accept any homebrew you stick onto it. If your game isn't running how you want it to, the power is completely in your hands to change that. 5e combat isn't fun? My brother in christ, you were the one who put the single, high-CR enemy on the battlefield without any minions, cover, environmental hazards, spells, levels, magic items, custom abilities, story, personality, i could go on. Characters all feel the same? You made this character, dude! You are the one acting in this way!
Same with the game as a whole. D&D has an infinite scope, it is bounded only by what you say it is, the whole game happens between your lips and their ears. If you or they aren't enjoying it then just say something different. If what you're doing isn't working then start scrutinising what it is that you are doing instead of languishing in your perceived inferiority to someone you are inexplicably jealous of. Matt's a good DM but it's not hard to be better than him. (Apart from the fact he runs for 7 people, no idea how he has the mental capacity to do that. Thats a stealth tip actually, try running for a smaller party if you feel overwhelmed)
The Matt Mercer Effect definitely is a thing, i've tried playing with Critters and every single time it has been a trainwreck exclusively due to their inability to just experience the game and enjoy it for what it is, they all came to the table with ridiculous expectations of what D&D is, ragging on the other players for not speaking in character and doing a voice etc.
None of their complaints had anything to do with my GM skills, it exclusively came down to play style and mismatched expectations, that's it, and the best part is that none of them lived up to their own expectations either, which every single one of them was absolutely offended by when it was pointed out.
Also 5e is not infinitely modular, it does one thing and one thing only, if you find the need to mod it beyond recognition you should probably play a different game, one that's better suited to your play style, instead of trying to force a square peg in to a round hole, there are better uses for ones time rather than trying to force 5e to be something that it´s not.
@@Daredhnu
Arguing across terms here. The video and most people I've heard speak about it define the Mercer effect as unfair expectations put on the DM. The behaviour of the other players would be a separate Mercer-related issue. Players being rude about other players' gameplay sounds like playing with assholes rather than the Mercer effect.
Also, making a small homebrew to make 5e do what you want it to is a much better use of your time than learning a new system. After the moment the homebrew is used in has passed, we are still playing 5e which is the game I want to play, I won't have wasted my time learning the stupid rules of a game I'm not gonna play again. Im not switching the game system to BitD just to run this heist. How many products do you expect me to buy? Will a conversation about dnd ever happen without someone making it about system wars?
@@Paddyhammer444 The Mercer Effect is not exclusively about Matt Mercer and his DM'ing skills, it's about Critical Role as a whole, it's just named after Matt since he's pretty much the face of Critical Role for better or worse because he's the DM, that's all, nor is it a new phenomenon, it's been around as long as people have been socializing, we all know a person who waxes lyrical about another DM or group of players and compares every gaming experience they have with those people, it's just that with Critical Role it's on a much grander scale since they've influenced the expectations of millions of people, rather than just a handful.
I wholeheartedly agree that my bad experiences were at the hand of assholes, but they were assholes who had their expectations set by watching Critical Role, which is all that's required to be able to invoke the Matt Mercer Effect.
Now as for other game systems, since you're so dead set on modding 5e to make it do things it was never designed to do, reading other systems might actually help you create half decent house-rules rather than abominations that should never see the light of day, so it's most definitely not a waste of time.
All I did was point out there were much better uses of time than trying to make D&D 5e in to something that it's not, which was directly in response to you saying 5e was infinitely modifiable when it really isn't, while there are plenty of scenario's that 5e can facilitate, the only theme/tone 5e is good for is heroic high fantasy, that's it, it's basically a fantasy super hero game and an average one at that, considering they only bothered to flesh out 1 of 3 pillars of play, namely combat, the social and exploration pillars are woefully under supported, with no real mechanical systems in place to facilitate them, if you want to play anything other than a heroic high fantasy game, like a survival game, or a horror game you'd be best served by playing a different game, since in order to run a satisfying game with either of those example themes would require rewriting half of the core rules for the game at which point you'd be much better served playing a different game where you don't have to tear out half of the core systems of the game in order to get it to work the way you want, but hey if you want to struggle to force every situation in to your 5e game then have at it, I hope it works out for you, I really do.
I don't think that it's about acting skills. I have them, but I still have trouble roleplaying characters.
I'm quite good when reading scripts, but not improv
World problems are better fixed with pre-written campaigns.
Click Bait!!!
Just for some important context, the Matt Mercer effect is nothing new. Watch Seth Skorkowsky's Video on the subject of the Matt Mercer effect or as he experienced it "Jeff, the greatest dungeon master alive!".
He explains about expectations of the game the players bring and impose unrealistic ones at that onto the DM and consider them lacking. Its just called the Matt Mercer effect because he is just the most visual but this is a phenomena that is and always has been part of the hobby long before Critical roll existed. The assertion that The Matt Mercer effect is a lie is incorrect. It dose exist and no matter what it will always exist Matt is just the most visible and so his name just got tagged onto it. My mom taught me to play and she told me about the very same issue that we know as The Matt Mercer effect. Yes it is about unfair or miscommunicated expectations but that is still accurate to what the Matt Mercer effect is.
What the Matt Mercer effect is in definition is:
A player experiences what they consider a perfect or near-perfect game play session (be it online or in-person) and judge their current DM for not living up to those standards and expectations that session set. Tell me how this is a lie. People do this all the time. Its also known as "the grass is greener on the other side" mentality. Nothing will ever live up to perceived perfection and they feel unsatisfied with it.
My experience was when three of the other members of the group I was playing with went overboard with their critical role obsession.
Pair of half elves whose home village was wiped out being the most notable another ran a Fallen Assimar but went with a Folk Hero Paladin not understanding what a Folk Hero is.
To be fair he freaked out when he realised I'm actually a creative DM and unlike the other DM I'm not an asshole.
Found that out when he screwed up the game he was touting just for a cheap shot.
I ran the next game and since he wasn't using Exandria as a setting I did however my one shot was actually developing nicely into a campaign whilst his went from a campaign into a series of failed one shots because he couldn't keep his game straight as he liked taking pot shots such as repeating saves instead of focusing on running the game properly.
I quit after he decided to jump settings because his obsession made him forget that can't happen without cooperation.
All he had to do was just ask and allow me to finish what I had sent them via email and it would have been easy enough.
Sadly he didn't give a damn about either game and I was tired of his stupidity.
Been almost 3 years and I've still been trying to understand why he did that.
THAT is the Critical Role Effect where morons thinking they know better try to use Critical Role as an excuse to avoid playing or running the game properly.
Thats why I don't believe in the Matt Mercer Effect.
Good info and advice as always. I guess I had it wrong, I always thought the MME was that more people don’t try DMing because they feel they can’t live up to the “pro DMs” they see streaming.
That's probably some of it, but the bulk of Dungeon Masters who complain about Matt Mercer complain that their players are expecting Matt Mercer at the table, or complain that their games aren't like Matt mercer's.
@@DungeonMasterpiece ah, that is odd to me, which makes sense as I agree with all of your points.
@@DungeonMasterpiece it's more the CR effect. Matt is amazing, but that's amped by the backstories of the caste that clearly mesh well with Matt's lore, and they likely plan drama points to some degree. It's a level of immersion most DMs and players dont have time for. Yet, players or dms will want at least part of that level of that entertainment, but wont put in the engagement with each other, the backstory-worldlore coupling, or (for especially newer players) the monetary budget necessary.
I love a hot take with an answer! Thank you for telling us a solution with the problem (:
I giggled at the "even for role play" image 🤣
This is just straight up legendary!!!!!
I'm framing this comment. 🫀❤️🔥🫀❤️🔥
Really solid advice, and so concise! Thank you, sir!
All I know is that I myself unabashedly love to be emotive and demonstrative (( i.e. dramatic )) in my storytelling, and I believe that ((almost))every NPC is an opportunity for me to roleplay _with_ the players... That said...
What Really Matters is that a DM/GM finds -- and nurtures -- their own voice and style...so long as they never forget that the players are intrinsic(( and invaluable )) to that...
"The Mercer Effect" is older than Mercer's celebrity. It's just getting worst with the trend of bashing the DMs. And this video is bashing the DMs too.
Remember, WOTC makes more money with fake Players than real DMs.
Fake players HAHHAHAHA love it. I always say there are fifteen times as many players as there are dms. And 10 of those players will only ever play a game once
@@DungeonMasterpiece It's right. But we are at a time when some great players have only fantasize their character creation.
I once had an endless tense discussion with a bunch of "experts" about a very bad subclass. I argued against the broken powers of level 10 and more. For them, I was THE DEVIL.
After days, I finally learned that nobody read the rules and only one of them had played the subclass. He was level 4.
It's also worth noting that while this isn't that crew's only job, it is abl job they take seriously and really enjoy. And they spend a ton of time *as a group* talking about what they'd like to do and working on ideas as a group. It's not scripted, but these are friends who have known each other for a decade and build on each other.
The Matt Mercer effect is basically nonexistent in my country, first because the native language isn't english, and second, because ttrpgs in general were seeing a big revival here before D&D5e came out, so there aren't that many clueless beginners.
But straight up denying the fact that discovering RPGs by critical role sets up unrealistic expectations for some people seems wrong to me.
As for the rest, I dislike the time pressure thing. The story doesn't have to be that tense all the time to be engaging. I'd even say that putting a time pressure on the players is good only when not used all the time. It's a good way to put players back on track, but if they never leave the tracks (or if you're having fun with them doing whatever) then it's not needed
I absolutely agree about your combat advice though. I never found an encounter below "deadly" by DMG standards to be challenging in this game. (For the few ones I calculated, most of the time I ignore it and put up what I think just might be too much. It's the sweet spot for me as a DM)
Another trick I've found to add urgency is to have tangible effects to the players' actions on the world you've developed. I'll use 5E Barovia as an example because it's already fleshed out enough for this -- if players _fail_ a mission, important NPCs die. It's that simple. When players fail a task, the _world_ is punished for it and by extension the players feel the agency slipping from their grasp. This isn't railroading. This is introducing consequences to one's actions.
I thought it didn't exist, then I played with a dude that wanted to BE Matt Mercer, It was annoying
SILLY VOICES *asymmetrical eye move with wierd lean into table*
@@DungeonMasterpiece it was online, but probably, what grinded my gears was that he was actually trying to "rail road me" into his world building sandbox when the adventure was supposed to be on a limited time table and we where about to face the BBEG lol
I kind of prefer Brandon Lee Mulligan from dimension 20 though I love the campaign he did with Matt Mercer. See I don't look at people like those guys and get intimidated I look at them and I see what I like and what I think would work for me as a DM and then I simply adopt those practices and then don't adopt the things that I don't like it's in the end it's all about having fun and finding your own style. I'm running my very first call of Cthulhu game right now and it's going great largely because yes I am using some of the style of other DMs that I like but also I am making sure to just have fun with it and really listen to my players and try to respond to them in real time with narrative changes
Thanks. That was a quick in my face eye opener 😍 more of that please
“Build your combats exactly how 4E said, but nobody wants to admit that…” AND IT WORKS.
Thank you for making this video. So much honesty to this.
"kowtow" ... learned a new one today lmao, thanks !
I can't say I've ever experienced the Matt Mercer effect regardless of how you define it. For some groups it may be because they started playing D&D before CR was a thing but I've run for some noob groups as well. At least in my experience it comes down to explicitly setting expectations. "This is an intrigue heavy game" or "this is a meat grinder dungeon crawl" or "this is a high roleplay melodrama." If what I'm running right now isn't your style then cool, no hard feelings. I'll see you next campaign or maybe we'll both play in a game with a different DM later.
OK you earned my fucking respect. THANK YOU FOR ACTUALIZING MY THOUGHTS
And hardest part for me was getting players to care about the world they were in.
I always argue that the matt mercer effect is more of "the critical role" effect.
when I watch Matt run the CelebriD&D games, they have Matt's presentation style, but in a much more streamlined and beginner friendly game. I base my own DMing style on that. entertain, but don't bog down.
I had no idea what the “Matt Mercer effect” was. As for what disappointed me in my first couple d&d sessions…that would be the DM’s railroading and a lack interest in _cooperative_ story telling. The story the DM was trying to tell basically didn’t require us at all. He was trying to be the DM and a player at the same time. I think I did more research for the session than he did.
That's how plot driven stories kinda work, rather than character driven stories. Not everyone is good at interacting with character backstories, or with social objectives, which is more CR style. Many play dnd more like a wargame with a story attached, something I do to a certain degree. It also has to do with how good the party is at making their character match the lore, which CR caste does well.
@@orionar2461 We weren’t even really a part of the plot. At one point we were trying to buy supplies and I guess he got bored and sent our two NPC companions on a castle heist without even giving us a chance to join.
@@Amaranthyne aight that is kinda weird. On the other hand, those NPCs may have had their own goals, which stopped aligning with the party. I dont know the details.
@@orionar2461 Our entire quest was to help them.
@@Amaranthyne yeah that's just bad dming then.
I've never heard of he matt mercer effect as a in game issue, only as a preventitive issue IE people don't want to play until they have everything matt mercer does.
I've seen/heard about the Matt Mercer effect about DMs and players. Indeed trying to emulate Critical Role in it's entirety.
What bother's me more is not that they try to copy it, but that these playgroups think that CR is the end all be all of D&D. They try to force themselves into that mold. "Roleplay is doing the voice" and "A campaign is about exploring a complex world". These are just aspects of roleplay and they deprive themselves of different types of stories and roleplay experiences because "that's not what 'good' D&D looks like".
The Matt Mercer effect, to me, is not people forcing others to comply to Critical Role. It's people restricting themselves to be like CR, thus limiting their expressive freedom.
Thank you omg!!!! This is what I’ve been saying!!! Like literally go through comments on videos about it, I’m serious.
Matt Mercer effect definitely exists but its not exclusive to "having fun". Its about players expecting all D&D games to play like Critical Role. I had a player who was obsessed with Critical Role and didn't complain that my campaign wasn't fun, just that it wasn't like Critical Role, and that's just not how all games are ran. The same player argued a rule with me "because that's how its done in critical role" and I'm like, well the official rules says otherwise. Critical Role has its own homebrew rules and I think the player assumed Critical Role's way is 100% by the rules and the correct way.
its more on not understanding what realisiically tabletop roleplaying is. the mercer (or now live play with others existing) effect is usually new players into tabletop gaming. they assumed the way those roleplayers and gm responds is the standard of every table group. when they eventually join and see its not what they think it is either A. they over roleplay in hope they can compensate for lack of rp happening in group[. 2. start telling gm/players how ppl in said live play they watch act and see if they can become like them. 3. if none of those then either they enter full murder hobo or leave.
those ppl need to understand this: those liveplays like critical roll, dimension 20, glass cannon and such they do what they can because its around a field of work they know which is usually acting/improve for theater or shows. of course they know how to fully rp naturally since they used to it and they are not even 1% of total tabletop groups. the remaining 99% and truthfully is the avg person with limited time to play due to work, super nerds that dont know to socialize but do ttrpgs as gateway to socialize and other similar cases. it is what is.
I like the upside down glasses. Lol
I've never heard from one person who has experienced this "effect." It's al third-hand stories.
Regarding kicking out players, hey even Critical Role has done that.
Neither do I. Actually I've seen much more hate against CR or anithing that is published using the brand CR or have the name Matt Mercer involved. Thats not to say that there aren't a lot of toxicity on CR fandom, cause there are
It's prevalent in online places specifically reddit and sometimes uncommonly roll20. People tend to be reasonable but if you try a little you will succeed in finding such a person.