LOL, I was under the impression that a square( stepped ) wave is a prerequisite for a stepper motor to work. I am no electronics engineer but if these ' smoothers ' have a function it is to block the back /current/EMF getting back to the drivers when the motor comes to a rapid halt and changes direction.
I like how everyone says 8 diodes is better without knowing anything about electrical engineering.. You can have 4 superior diodes or 8 inferior, but you dont know, maybe 8 superior... The bottom line is, the drivers are just spreading out the current over twice as many diodes which is only reducing the current each one is subjected to. Because they get hot. It dosent have an effect on SNR. It DOES NOT have twice the filtering since a single inferior diode is going to have the least resistance and the highest amount of gain (poor signal leaking through). Look how their wired - its all evenly distributed. If you have a diode getting much hotter than the rest - there you go. The wiring of these boards with 8 is 'better' at least in the respect of how much work each diode is subjected to, and ultimately greater longevity. Theres youtube channels that have put these TL smoothers on test equipment to demonstrate this, and whether its mostly voodoo in the end...
I think it would awesome if you'd include a list printers that have the drivers that would benefit from these smoothers. For example i have a CR10s, MP select mini and an MP mini delta....
Interesting video. I have a CR10 mini and have only been 3d printing for a month or so and my prints are amazingly smooth. Very little artifacts. Would I see any improvement if I installed these smoother boards on my printer?
Try printing a Vase or object with a wavy curve if you can see the "salmon skin" effect then yes you will get "some" benefit from TL-smoothers. You can see the effect in some objects like the Benchy on the front hull curve you can see the effect here. I found from my stock Anet A8 to get to this point changing the belts helped a lot because tension only does so much when they are slightly elastic and just making sure your frame is as stiff as possible. As Paul F has said the Cr10 uses different drives so there is doubt if your printer has this small issue.
I can really recommend the lv8729 drivers. They are quieter then a4988 or drv and even support up to 128 microstepps when you use a 32 bit board. I use them at 16 together with tmc 2130 and honestly they are much easyier to work with then the trinamics, while at the same time beeing much less expensive.
TMC2208 TMC driver, LV8729 MKS driver and the DRV8825 pololu driver are the latest (I think). The prusa i3 mk3 is using the TMC2130 and has a step loss implementation so you will not loss steps and other very cool amazing features with bumping the hot end and power outage recovery. It will be only a matter of time for this to be implemented into the clones. As far as i can tell you can get them at a very similar price to each other so there is no real beneift to very little in getting the other drivers. I would stick with TMC and wait for the Step loss features to kick in the future.
I been looking at these TL-Smoothers for a while now for my Anet A8 which uses the A4988 driver just to make my prints amazing smooth. But when i costed it out its about $20 for a 8 Diode kit, i honestly thing it would be better to just buy a Ramps board and driver setup then your not dealing with constrained hardware and can run multiple hotends, thermocouples, and add in other cool features like ambient temperature controled box.
Side85Winder I got these off eBay for au$5 .....the wiring reversed the direction ....at least with the one I tried out. I suppose I could rewire and try again.....but give up!
Ebay now has a 8 diode kit for $12 AUD now thats a much better than $20 that i seen from Aliexpress. At this price i think i am going to take the plunge just for the sake of having a known better result for a very small investment. I still would love a RAMPS board (or a 32bit board) with TMC2208 drivers for a very high precision setup.
Depends a bit on which TL smoothers you get and how many. No joke. On the Tevo LM (a MKS sBase smoothie-controlled Delta with 8825's as steppers), many users reported they still saw Salmon Skin issues when putting on one set of TL smoothers : we (I'm one of the guys who experimented with TL's since 2014) noticed that on this machine you needed 2 TL's in series on each axis to get a good result. Same turned out to be the case on the Hatchbox Alpha Delta (which uses A4988's, yet has a horrible case of missing-steps-induced-surface patterning). In the end, if you can't make these TL's yourself (really easy, it's just a couple of diodes in anti-parallel really - they are NOT setup as Flyback diodes as so many people think !!!) and you have a controllerboard wich allows easy swap of the steppers, tossing the 8825 or 4988's and replacing them with TMC's is probably the cleaner solution. On TBH6128's, I've noticed there's STILL a pattern, but you can supress that by closing the "fast" jumper at the underside of the 6128 steppers. Alternatively, you can force the decay modes of the 4988/8825 into Fast decay too by forcing the pin needed to do that (grounding ROSC pin on the 4988 by bridging the typical 10KOhm resistor on the ROSC pin, or pulling the Decay pin to 5V on the 8825) but it will come at the price of a much noisier machine. If you want to toy with that, here's some reading : www.morgan3dp.com/stepstuck-revisited-drv8825/ . Don't know how LV's behave in this regard.
Another useful video. I’ll be looking at these for my Anycubic i3. I’m still getting a rippled finish .Those 8-diode prints are fantastic! Has it made any difference in terms of noise?
I've used Smoothieware and Marlin 2.0 .. Personally i think M2.0 32bit is wayyy better.. Smoothieware sounds good at first but i really did not like it
This does nothing more than what a $0.10 resistor would do. Diodes in both directions is doing nothing else than adding resistance. Which means you got too much voltage going to your steppers if the "smoothers" actually work.
LOL, I was under the impression that a square( stepped ) wave is a prerequisite for a stepper motor to work. I am no electronics engineer but if these ' smoothers ' have a function it is to block the back /current/EMF getting back to the drivers when the motor comes to a rapid halt and changes direction.
You are right
Interesting video but I think the orange filament wasn't the best choice to showcase the effects.
It does amaze me that no ones build this very simple piece of signal conditioning into their control boards.
Because they are built to a price point
I appreciate the transitions you use as opposed to an abrupt jump cut, it is much easier to watch!
Hi, do you think is good idea using smoothers with Ender 3 Vs´2 Neo? Thank for reply
I like how everyone says 8 diodes is better without knowing anything about electrical engineering.. You can have 4 superior diodes or 8 inferior, but you dont know, maybe 8 superior... The bottom line is, the drivers are just spreading out the current over twice as many diodes which is only reducing the current each one is subjected to. Because they get hot. It dosent have an effect on SNR. It DOES NOT have twice the filtering since a single inferior diode is going to have the least resistance and the highest amount of gain (poor signal leaking through). Look how their wired - its all evenly distributed. If you have a diode getting much hotter than the rest - there you go. The wiring of these boards with 8 is 'better' at least in the respect of how much work each diode is subjected to, and ultimately greater longevity. Theres youtube channels that have put these TL smoothers on test equipment to demonstrate this, and whether its mostly voodoo in the end...
Triangle Labs has an updated version with 8 diodes now, I just bought them.
I think it would awesome if you'd include a list printers that have the drivers that would benefit from these smoothers. For example i have a CR10s, MP select mini and an MP mini delta....
just check the controllerboard and google it
do you know if these will work on the Ender 5 plus?
Which one is better TMC 2208 driver or TL Smoothers ? or both ?
Will this make any improvement on other drivers? for example the ones on anet a8
Wouldn’t this also help ensure that if the steppers / axis is moved it won’t backfeed generates current into the controller board?
Sadly no, I just tried moving my motors and they still backfeed and power the board.
Are you related to Bob form Make Anything in any way?
Your video style remind me of him :D
hahaha. I love watching Bob and sadly no, we are not related. Normally people ask if Matt from Demo/OfftheRanch and I are related.
Interesting video. I have a CR10 mini and have only been 3d printing for a month or so and my prints are amazingly smooth. Very little artifacts. Would I see any improvement if I installed these smoother boards on my printer?
NoCr10s dont use the drivers that this is used to help.
Try printing a Vase or object with a wavy curve if you can see the "salmon skin" effect then yes you will get "some" benefit from TL-smoothers. You can see the effect in some objects like the Benchy on the front hull curve you can see the effect here. I found from my stock Anet A8 to get to this point changing the belts helped a lot because tension only does so much when they are slightly elastic and just making sure your frame is as stiff as possible.
As Paul F has said the Cr10 uses different drives so there is doubt if your printer has this small issue.
What printer are the tl smoothers you present for??
Do the smoothers wear out?
No
Why would one put a tl-smoother on the z-axis?
For a Delta, you have to do all 3 axis as they work together. On a cartesian style printer, there is no need.
@@Fugatech3DPrinting Ah, of course! Thanks.
is it compatible with JG Aurora A5?
These work on any printer but whether or not it will make a difference I do not know.
The video shows clearly that the diodes works!
I can really recommend the lv8729 drivers.
They are quieter then a4988 or drv and even support up to 128 microstepps when you use a 32 bit board.
I use them at 16 together with tmc 2130 and honestly they are much easyier to work with then the trinamics, while at the same time beeing much less expensive.
TMC2208 TMC driver, LV8729 MKS driver and the DRV8825 pololu driver are the latest (I think). The prusa i3 mk3 is using the TMC2130 and has a step loss implementation so you will not loss steps and other very cool amazing features with bumping the hot end and power outage recovery. It will be only a matter of time for this to be implemented into the clones. As far as i can tell you can get them at a very similar price to each other so there is no real beneift to very little in getting the other drivers. I would stick with TMC and wait for the Step loss features to kick in the future.
Are these TL-Smoothers a solution for the A8 printer also?
Piet Bos. No, as long you use the orig. board.
Where's the link to the explainer?
It was a card but I added it to the video description as well.
Thanks. Between pihole and adblock I don't see the cards.
Thanks for the support?
Now that it looks my tevo tornado is back up and running, I might just have to look into this.
I been looking at these TL-Smoothers for a while now for my Anet A8 which uses the A4988 driver just to make my prints amazing smooth. But when i costed it out its about $20 for a 8 Diode kit, i honestly thing it would be better to just buy a Ramps board and driver setup then your not dealing with constrained hardware and can run multiple hotends, thermocouples, and add in other cool features like ambient temperature controled box.
Side85Winder I got these off eBay for au$5 .....the wiring reversed the direction ....at least with the one I tried out. I suppose I could rewire and try again.....but give up!
Ebay now has a 8 diode kit for $12 AUD now thats a much better than $20 that i seen from Aliexpress. At this price i think i am going to take the plunge just for the sake of having a known better result for a very small investment.
I still would love a RAMPS board (or a 32bit board) with TMC2208 drivers for a very high precision setup.
Can this also help with ghosting?
No. Your acceleration and jerk settings are what effect ghosting.
4:40 - Artyfacting
I purchased these for my Delta - they made ZERO difference. Still getting the wood-grain patterns in all my prints. :/
What drivers are you using? Could be a voltage issue.
I'm running an Azteeg X5 v1 with built-in DRV8825's. I don't think it would be a voltage issue.
Depends a bit on which TL smoothers you get and how many. No joke. On the Tevo LM (a MKS sBase smoothie-controlled Delta with 8825's as steppers), many users reported they still saw Salmon Skin issues when putting on one set of TL smoothers : we (I'm one of the guys who experimented with TL's since 2014) noticed that on this machine you needed 2 TL's in series on each axis to get a good result. Same turned out to be the case on the Hatchbox Alpha Delta (which uses A4988's, yet has a horrible case of missing-steps-induced-surface patterning). In the end, if you can't make these TL's yourself (really easy, it's just a couple of diodes in anti-parallel really - they are NOT setup as Flyback diodes as so many people think !!!) and you have a controllerboard wich allows easy swap of the steppers, tossing the 8825 or 4988's and replacing them with TMC's is probably the cleaner solution. On TBH6128's, I've noticed there's STILL a pattern, but you can supress that by closing the "fast" jumper at the underside of the 6128 steppers. Alternatively, you can force the decay modes of the 4988/8825 into Fast decay too by forcing the pin needed to do that (grounding ROSC pin on the 4988 by bridging the typical 10KOhm resistor on the ROSC pin, or pulling the Decay pin to 5V on the 8825) but it will come at the price of a much noisier machine. If you want to toy with that, here's some reading : www.morgan3dp.com/stepstuck-revisited-drv8825/ . Don't know how LV's behave in this regard.
A very little different. Not a big one.
hi, do you have interest to do a review for tevo products? Glad to hear from your reply soon.Best regards!
Hi there. Please email me at shane@fugatech3dprinting.com so we can talk.
Excellent video!
Thank you very much!
Another useful video. I’ll be looking at these for my Anycubic i3. I’m still getting a rippled finish .Those 8-diode prints are fantastic!
Has it made any difference in terms of noise?
I've used Smoothieware and Marlin 2.0 .. Personally i think M2.0 32bit is wayyy better.. Smoothieware sounds good at first but i really did not like it
Can you explain a little bit about why you think Marlin 2.0 is better than Smoothie? Genuinely curious; I haven't tried Marlin 2.
do you need smoothers on z axis ?
Only on a delta printer.
This does nothing more than what a $0.10 resistor would do. Diodes in both directions is doing nothing else than adding resistance. Which means you got too much voltage going to your steppers if the "smoothers" actually work.
ok...
Would this work on Anycubix 4 Max Pro?