Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
1908 Knight Daimler Sleeve Valve Engine Start Up
Вставка
- Опубліковано 20 лип 2011
- This very unique sleeve valve engine first built in 1908 was rebuilt extensively by Nimmo Machine in Costa Mesa. It was started for the first time in many years on July 16th, 2011 at Nimmo Machine. These guys were amazing that they could make this engine run again. The car it goes in was once owned by the King of England and will be shown at Pebble Beach in August of this year.
This is my husband working on another classic car engine.
@Dogcookies pretty sure they just ment their husband acts the same way.
What was the point in even saying that on a 12yr old post? You that much of a loser? 😂
Kick rocks fagg0t.😂
@Dogcookiesshe can identify herself as the wife or husband of this man can they not?😂
This is not "just" another engine😍
Almost teared up when it finally fired. Love that people are out there saving this stuff!
Im young and I cried so you aren't alone! Just because I am young doesnt mean i dont understand! If hug you if needed, so badass!!!
You ok? Seriously, you ok?
Hey just because I am young doesnt mean I am human! Everyone needs help and support and love too!
John Affleck, you obviously can't understand the simplest application of using the senses to see the rate at which each of the cylinders warm up, so they can detect misfiring by any of the cylinders. Touching is a simple and fundamental sense that old-timers used to diagnose mechanical perturbations...they were SMARTER than the technicians of today! Touching the radiator and hoses helps to affirm positive flow of water! Try to give these gentlemen a little credit for what they did!
After considerable pain from the starter motor it coughed and sputtered into life, the mosquitoes in nearby areas would have been killed off by the smoke, joking aside wonderful to see a 100++ year old engine running and hopefully driving soon.
Quite an advanced piece of engineering for 1908. I remember seeing paintings of Mors cars in vintage races by Peter Hellick years ago in Road and Track.
Beautiful!
Well done getting that brute started!
that's a lot of torque there!
sounds gorgeous!
rattles from poppet valves meant energy being lost in the valve drive, this puppy running quietly just shows how energy efficient sleeve valves are!
took a while to get her rolling but once rolling she just looks like she wanted to start.
It give me a feeling words can not say to see these old engines run again they are pure horse power long stroke engines thats why they sound like nothing made today. It is also even better to see this have a chance to run at a low speed to give the oil chance to get around it, i have seen many videos on youtube with complete idiots revving the nuts off things from a cold start. Great job guys i look forward to seeing it in the car again one day.
WidowUK Most people get passed the idiot stage by the time they're 70 years old.
you mean torque right? not horse power?
@@themotorfreak1 torque and horsepower are the same thing
hp is just a calculation of torque X RPM divided by a constant
@@shaft9000
So true, 1hp = 1fp of torque at 5252 RPM.
Well done ! Your efforts are appreciated. It's people like you that keep history alive. Amazing job.
Minerva, in Belgium, also used a sleeve-valve engine.
Problem with that system is a huge oil-consumption. (plus a quite difficult fine-tuning, as seen here as the engine is running but not really smoothly)
Nice job, gentlemen!
Hi all good to see this engine running, I have restored a sleeve valve engine and know the work involved. Good job
Yep these were also in the MK 4 WW1 tank. Open inside, sharing the space with the crew. It's a wonder any of those survived.
i was going to ask if this was the same engine used in those old tanks! if you look at the beginning of the video you can clearly see so much exhaust leaking out around where the connect to each cylinder, feel so bad for the men who had to crew those lol
My Grandad was a gunner in one of those tanks. Obviously, he survived and passed away at 80 years old in 1974
No, all the WW1 crewmen are gone.
@Dogcookies105 hp in 1908 is impressive. And probably gobs more torque
Ahh, would you listen to that baby purr? I love the sound of old engines. It's soothing in a strange way, considering they are quite loud ofttimes.
Love the sound that motor has
sounds awesome,like a big radial engine
Sounds bloody awful to me.
Rarely have I heard an engine sound this gooooooooooooooood.
Perfect,could listen to it all day.
These engines were believed to be the most smooth and cultivated motors between 1905 and 1925, because of this steam engine like tact / rhythm of the ignitions. But with revs being limited around 3000 to 3500 or even lower, most of the cars were limited in their speed to max. 75 / 80 km/h. Even the last ones like Panhard SPL 8 or Minerva AGS did not go faster than 100 to 110km/h , their production ceased between 1931 and 1934.
I gotta call bull simply because these were used in planes and you're not gonna fly at under 3,000rpm
I can smell this video. 😃
My 1954 Rover P4 had a sleeve valve engine. It made for an exceptionally smooth and quiet car. Once you had engaged the override gear ( made illegal 1955 replaced by overdrive) which disconnected the gear train you could scarcely hear the engine at all.
The concept was also used by Rolls Royce.
I liked the car a lot. Wish I still had it.
Sorry this is rubbish. I meant some other configuration.
You meant the inlet overhead valve/side exhaust valve configuration which was used by Rover between the introduction of the P4 and the end of the 3 litre, and also used by RR between 1946 and 1959
I'm sure it will be very smooth once they've set both ignition timings correctly, the magneto fires one set of plugs and the coil ignition distributor fires the other set. It possibly has a three lobe cam in the distributor, with two sets of contact breaker points, which have to be syncronised.. The way the engine is rocking about suggests that the timing and syncronising requires perfecting. But hey, they've just started it so that's always a great sense of achievement. Looking forward to see it in the chassis.
There is no cam in a Daimler-Knight sleeve-valve engine. There is a two-phase eccentric shaft that the intake and exhaust sleeves are connected to, which slide the sleeves up and down in much the same manner as a crankshaft works with its connecting rod and piston. The eccentric shafts timing gear could be off a tooth, but on a Knight engine there is a little dot or star stamped on the timing gear to ensure correct timing, so I can’t imagine they’d mess that up. My guess for this video is that it was either 1) running too lean (not enough fuel), or 2) the operator was trying to run it off the magneto at too low of rpms, rather than running it off the bat/coil until it could be brought up to temp and revs.
@@wolfmanradio The Cam I was referring to, is the ignition distributor cam. Also, a good Magneto will produce a powerful spark at very low revolutions.
My Mum used to use my uncles Daimler about 1946. It smoked all the way up the road It was a sleeve valve engine. I remember her putting 2 pts of Shell oil in the engine once. Wish I had it now !!.
good lord!!:p
It'd be interesting to see a modern sleeve valve engine for sure.
If this is the 1908 Cars engine, it was built for Queen Alexandra As recorded by lord Montague and David burgess -Wise. To those who have never seen a sleeve valve engine running, smoke is part their character,often settling down once the engine has covered a few hundred miles.
Love that sound, a sleeve valve engine has a distinctive "rumble", the sound reminds me of the Bristol sleeve valve 18 cylinder radial aircraft engine.
Was thinking about that guy screwing the oilcap on the first cylinder, "when is his hand comming too close to the spark plug wire terminal and gets zapped"
Outstanding. Great sound.
Think about the reciprocating mass! Those old Knight engines actually improved with wear, as carbon built up between the valve sleeves. Smoked like a tire fire, though. Anybody think they could have cleaned one up with technology and made them legal for OEM use today? Internal friction must be a beast!
I think it's kind of the same problem that the Wankel had. Too much oil is being burned with the fuel. It's pretty hard to make that go away without a massive afterburner or a really special catalytic converter.
It's so beautiful
you old man has been there for a bit when hes got that comfy chair pulled up.
Always thought sleeve valves were 1940s technology. Amazing to see they were used in 1908.
Valveless engine 💪
Sounds great, almost like an old aero engine.
What an awesome thing.
Yep! Very thirsty on petrol, and using about one fifth as much engine oil as petrol. Very smooth and quiet, but rather like travelling along behind a huge 2-stroke if you were ever in that position. As I was, once, in my youth!
It sounds beautiful. Great job getting it running!
As an old mechanic I find it interesting to see how things have advanced
Wow, so quiet! It sounds a lot like Mel Blanc's impression of Jack Benny's Maxwell :P
Encore quelques réglages au niveau de la synchronisation de l'avance à l'allumage de la magnéto et cela sera bon, le plus dur est déjà fait, bravo
Very cool.
I wonder if in 2118, there will be any motor built now that will still run, I bet that motor will still run then.
Would run so much better on a dose of nitromethane 😄. Seriously I used to work at the Daimler Co in Coventry and we had a few of these sleeve valve engines in cars in the company museum and they ran surprisingly well. Smoked a bit mind you. Also had an 1898 Lanchester car with a two cylinder engine with hot tube ignition. That went well and nice to ride in. Happy days.
Nice work! If you have spare engines, the Silent Knight type, it perhaps could be interesting considering adapting it to Single Sleeve-Valve type, that described by patent GB118407, Piccard-Pictet (Espacenet), it looks easier to implement than Burt-McCollum type, and may have same advantages.
About Sleeve itself, the Harry Ricardo document in 19th Andrew Laing lecture, 1950: 'The Sleeve-Valve Diesel Engine', contains everything about heat transfer and general Sleeve issues.
It took Bristol thousands experiences finding the right alloy for an aluminum air cooled cylinder and an steel sleeve, but in an Iron block, any steel may probaby fit. References in Wikipedia S-V article
What a magnificent engine and a terrific restoration project. Any notice the up draft carburettor? They were more efficient than the downdraft carb's that car companies switched to in later years.And the use of two spark plugs per cylinder just in case on plug quit.Good engineering for the time...
Updraft isn't more efficient. Most carbs were prone to leaking so an updraft would just drip on the ground instead of flooding the engine. The second plug is not a spare like fire engines. The combustion chambers were huge and needed the extra long spark to fire the mixture
Right. Two plugs enhanced the flame travel in the cylinder. Same with aircraft engines. The plugs fire just a few degrees sequentially.
@@davebethel7159
Most aircraft engines with dual ignition fire in synchrony. A few, like vintage Continental C-Series engines, have a two-degree stagger to their timing. Cylinder charge stratification caused the bottom plugs to burn more of the charge than the top, resulting in more of an rpm drop on one mag than the other, so timing was retarded a bit on that one to give an even "mag drop" when checking each system prior to takeoff.
it's got a nice rumble to....I honestly was expecting that clattery "put put put" old engines like that normally make
O
Sleeve valve engines were used in some aircraft in WW II, called whispering death because you couldn't hear them coming.
the last serial build engine was the Bristol Hercules, built in France by SNECMA to fit the Nord 2501 Noratlas...in a propeller aircraft did the propeller produce in most case the same level of noise as the engine...
Napier Sabre. Would love to hear one of those running.
It is a complete finish and where the video is for the car running. Or only display museum? It's a great look alive engine and clean. Good job mechanics.
God save the king's engine!
@Alisterwolf66
Yes going into the King of England's car and heading to Pebble Beach in August.
WOW! Nice boat anchor.
These were used in the Mk. I - IV tanks, I believe.
just bring back this engine to life is exceptionnal as there is no parts currently available, you have to do internal modification to be able to substitute the original parts for parts available today, just thinking to cylinder head gaskets, for the other ones, you can use raw material
congratulations
+Jacques Poirier you wouldn't be able to substitute parts for something like this. You would have to re-make worn out components yourself either by machining them from billet stock, or casting them.
it would actually be harder to modify the internals to try and use modern equivalents than it would be to make new parts to replace the old ones from scratch.
That looks like an amazing engine! I'd heard about sleeve valve engines before, but this video prompted me to do a little more research. I have a much higher appreciation for the designers of these engines, and to you guys for getting it running again! It looks so much more complicated than the standard poppet valve system! Oh, is this a six cylinder engine with 2 plugs per cylinder, or a 12 cylinder? Just curious, thanks for posting the video!
That would be a 6
Love it
This thing sounds soo much like a speed boat
Don't they all love touching it!
Is it one of those special engines that bring you luck if you touch it?
Checking for hot spots. It's for information, not luck.
nice lope to it sounds great
Volkswagen said that the smoke is nothing to worry about.
almost sounds like R2800 starting up :)
+jimnrel My thought exactly.
Love the sound 👍
Starts faster than my buddy's 2008 f150!!
Though being marine engineer for medium to low speed diesels, I am not so much into petrol engines per se, this is very nice though. This would definitely make excellent marine engine on boat! (Or aux engine on good sailboat or small yacht).
keeps the bugs away!
I just didn't understand why they started checking to see if it was getting hot as quickly as it started I guess after 50 plus years of mechanicing I'm missing something here. A neat engine
Great work, interesting restoration, one day I would love to know how to do it .....
1:13 starter sounds a little misaligned, neat engine type. Sounds and smokes like a radial, like that!
Seems like the carb needs a bit of adjustment.
The starter must be a later modification.
Amazing to see!
Wonderful to see this marvellous old historic engine - with all it`s interesting past in so many examples of usage. But - Why do they keep it running so rich??? oil will be thinned in bores. Also , Is there a water pump? That water pipe ought to slant up to a higher radiator without a loop allowing an air lock. Sorry chaps! Just a thought ................................
Awesome waste oil burner, and so smooth LOL
Wow did not know they had these engines in the 13th Century ! Interesting though.
Phil H 1908 was actually in the 20th century.
johnabuick Really I did not know that. But there was not a King of England in 1908. There was in 1208 though. Are you American?
Edward VII?
+Phil H the term Edwardian comes to mind 1908...........
Phil H
The King of England in 1908 was Edward VII.
My dad fixed a 1908 Daimler in Toronto I should steal his phone and post some videos
Never steal.
Amazing how quiet that engine is. Seems it burns more oil than gas, doesn`t it? It would be nice to hear that engine around 1500 rpm instead 750, some careful revving would do the warming up...
If there`s enough oil in it to get past cold ;)
they were known as "silent Knights"
+LaLaLand sleeve valve engines do burn a lot of oil. It's part of the design as there is no poppet valves,just a sleeve moving up and down and it needs oiling. They are strangely quiet when run with mufflers too.
Sleeve rotates ?
Work on the same principle as a 2 stroke weed eater engine.
absolutely no comparison...there is no sleeve for a valve in a 2 stroke, they use reeds, a disc, and/or the piston skirt.
I wish that he would open that engine up and clear some of the oil from the sleeves/bores the workshop also appears to be full of "fiddlers" none of whom have ever had a shock from a magneto.
I was waiting with great anticipation for the guy with the oil can to get the piss shocked out of him. I suspect the magnets in the old magneto are a bit weak. Not the problem with the rough idle, though. The sleeves didn't want to seal. Trying to oil them with the engine running was a waste of time as he learned.
Sounds like a mean engine =D
Whats the problem ? my neighbour uses his Daimler sleeve valve engine on a daily basis. The really impressive sleeve valves were the Bristol Aero engines.
Napier Sabre also
good!!! very good!
sounds just like a radial engine
So cool.
Is it EPA approved?
Beautifully smooth without the valve "tick tick" sounds. Shame the concept never took off!
It literally took off. Ever heard of the Bristol Hercules, Bristol Centaurus or Napier Sabre!? The most powerful aero engines ever. Up to 5000hp. Then came jets...
I think this type of engine was used in those British WWI tanks.
That was my thought. Bus/truck engines in this period were usually 4 cyls.
German Daimler engines in British tanks? The very first tanks were built less than a mile away from this house, by Foster's. Locally-built engines were used in testing. The tanks were first tested on Lincoln's South Common, and the locals were told that they were 'water carriers, for Mesopotamia', as a security measure! An old friend, now long-dead, saw some of the testing of the Mark 1 tanks there. At least one Mark IV is preserved in a museum locally.
Although they were started by a guy who wanted to use Daimler engines in a British car, By the time of WWI the British Daimler co. were making their own engines under patent from Knight of the U.S..
Did it ever run properly ie rev out smoothly? Or... were there big problems with it as there are here..?
@mistermodified1
Yes they do run pretty quiet...not what we are used to hearing from an engine...no real crack from the exhaust...very low compression. LOTS of moving parts....to say the least. You know the oil smoke sure lessened as it was run....almost no smoke when it went back to Tired Iron for installation into the Kings car. I understand it did very well at Pebble Beach on the morning drive around. Thanks for your post.
This kind of engine burns oil more than gasoline 🤣🤣🤣😂
But I love the idea. I
fantastico
Is this a total loss oil engine?
No mosquitos!
super sound
Shouldnt an inline 6 purr like a kitten and run smooth without shaking so much?
Hi Sandy,
I'm restoring a similar sleeve-valve engine. The cast iron blocks are cracked, and I need to recast them. The blocks in this video appear to be alloy. Did Nimmo Machine recast these in alloy? I've seen a few later Daimler sleeve-valve engines with alloy blocks and/or heads that appear to be original. So, Daimler may have made some in alloy.
*****
Thanks very much. However, I already have the patterns ready for casting.
*****
Thanks, that's a very kind offer, but your considerable expertise with sleeve-valve Daimlers will not be required for my cars.
I do believe they make a block filler that can be pumped in to fill the cracks. I saw a video of it done on a restoration just a couple of months ago.
Anyways good luck with your project sir.
Steve Campbell-Wright Too bad I did not see this 3 years ago, but yes we had them cast in 356 aluminum. The cast iron foundry we were using kept breaking the cores and could not get us any usable castings. Since the shrink rate is roughly the same for iron and aluminum we decided to try them out of aluminum. Big thanks go to Ronny @ Pattern Model for makin the patterns and to Miller Foundry for the great alloy castings!
No EPA when this engine was.on the road......
is that Ray Stover I see standing there??
Grande, fantastico, un mito, 9300cc.
i wonder how it sounds with a muffler on it
Electric starters didn't come out until 1912. This engine would have been started by hand-cranking to charge the cylinders then snapping the ignition to fire the proper cylinder.
Rogers Hunter This is true, but the customer wanted an easier way to start the engine for any of the various people who might need to drive the car in it's future at the museum. The hand crank mechanism was kept in tact, and actually, after the engine was tuned correctly, it was started by hand, but really just for the novelty of doing so
Sounds like at least 1 or 2 cylinders are running...
engines live
impressive
Is that the 15.9Lt 105HP that found its way into tanks in WW1? It looks a bit smaller than the one I saw in a Tank at Bovington Museum
No, the Tank engine is 13 ltr with a 150 x 150 mm bore and stroke.
***** Thank you turbo
o baixo ruido se deve a abertura mais gradual das janelas de escape do que de valvulas convensionais.
Two plugs per cylinder, must be intake and exhaust, because of the oil?
no: twin plugs are common on big bore engines or aircraft engines
Sleeve valve engines make a lot of smoke because they use a lot of oil. There are no piston rings to control oil burn in the cylinders.
they must at least have a compression ring to make compression? or is piston interfearence fit in bore that has no rings at all ?
Do what? Yes, sleeve valve engines have piston rings and that is mostly not oil smoke, it's raw fuel.
The Bristol Hercules has two set of piston rings for each cylinder. There are the usual rings on the piston and another set to seal between the head and the sleeve.
Definitely needs some boost