I like the idea of draft free sleeping, so I bought a Zenbivy sheet and attached loops to the side of my quilt with tenacious tape. It works great, doesn't weigh that much and my sleep got so much better due to less drafts. The full sheet feels like a real bed and removes the plastic feel of my sleeping pad. - 2mm cord - 8 patches - The loops need to be inside the edge of the quilt by at least 25 cm (=9.84 inch) - Attach the loops 35cm from the top of the quilt, spaced at 22 cm (=8.66 inch)
I really hope that I can rig that sheet up to my perfectly comfortable (4.6R Value 20oz) and affordable ($75) paria xl recharge with the paria 15 degree quilt ($150) that I have been using for the past 5 years!
Good and fair review. Full disclosure, I've owned a ZenBivy quilt and sheet for close to 5 years, and I love it. I can't speak to the mattress or pillow, but the sheet and quilt combo on a Nemo Tensor XL have given me the best sleep I've had in the backcountry in in 40+ years of camping. I'd buy it again without question. That said, I'm not an ultralight hiker and I understand your critiques of the system in that regard.
My wife and I have the lite beds in the 10f and we were able to buy narrower pads because an overlooked benefit of the sheet is that it cradles your arms preventing them from slipping off. Gotta factor that into the weight savings calculations plus I was able to merge the two into a puffy plush dream monster by simply connecting the loops on the inner meeting seams with some cut up pieces of rubberized gear ties. Bypassed having to permanently disfugure our quilts to achieve something similar with tape or other adhesives. I can't fathom how you'd do that with a revelation with fewer connection points along the perimeter without tape or sewing. Another plus for biv, marvelous for couples.
I also have the same quilt you have, $460, a Thermarest Xtherm pad bought used for $150, and a Sea-to Summit pillow for $60. Total $670 and completely satisfied.
I’m glad you raised the issue of the country of manufacture. Products made in the USA, or in Europe, are not necessarily more expensive than products made in Asia, despite much higher labor costs.
Just went through this exact same process with the same comparable gear. What I ended up doing is keeping only the UL sheet and putting some Zpacks stackable loops on my Enigma. Pair it with my pad and my pillow and I get a much better system at only 2.7 ounces more allowing me to move more freely without the drafts. I’m 6’5” and 260, straps just aren’t enough.
I get to call Oregon my home and it truly makes me happy to hear you speak highly of our beloved mountain. I'm glad you see the beauty in it like I do.
If you are a backpacker that really spends a lot of time out there and have the money, why not. For me, it looks like a gimmick. When it's warm, I unzip my mummy bag and use it like a quilt. When it's cold I zip up till only my nose sticks out. I use a trusty old z fold with a light air mattress on top. I never wake up on the ground and have a little seat while around camp. Total cost, about 90 dollars counting the duck down bag.
I found the perfect solution for me: I bought the Sheet only and I have sewed the loops for the sheet to my existing 6 years old down quilt. Works very well and costs me like nothing more than the Sheet.
Good for you for reviewing this product well. Your passion is showing and it blows those day packers opinions wide open. They’re YES MEN, keep this up Darwin! See ya out there, on the Collegiate Loop now 👍🏼
Since you can use any pad or pillow with the zenbivy you should just compare the Enigma to the ZB's quilt + sheet. The Enigma you spec is 1lb 5oz and costs $460, while the ZB is 1lb 6oz and costs $540. So basically the ZB is 4% heavier and 17% more expensive for a superior attachment system. depending on your priorities either eems reasonable.
Appreciate the review & comparisons. My goto for many years has been a WM Summerlite 30F sleeping bag, 19oz, $505 and Zlite Sol CCF pad at 15oz, $60. Total 34oz (2lb 2oz), $565. I recently posted a video on other Big 3/4 systems. More recently I'm using 1/8" pad &/or Reflectix as a pad. My priority is simplicity.
Side sleeper here, but don’t hit the ground as mentioned, just gotta give the pad one or two more puffs so it holds better. That makes the pad more stiff but I think it’s better for my body/back to be more stiff than on the softer side. Also the waffle baffles are the way to go for pressure relief as a side sleeper, other pads will make my arms/shoulders go numb. I’m 6’2 and weigh 175pounds, Eastern Sierra weekend warrior, weight, qualify and simplicity are my big 3. I wouldn’t mind trying just the sheet out and sewing some loops onto my current quilt to make it work. I use a Sea to Summit Either Lite XT pad in women’s long, as women’s has a bit better R-value than the men’s yet smaller and lighter because of the shape, don’t need the square or wider top half as a side sleeper. Super comfy pad. Have a customer EE 20f quilt, 950 fill. Still exploring pillow combinations, but seems that the small Therms Rest Compressible pillow is the winner, a bit heavy and big but worth it, I throw my pants and ass pad under the head area of my sleeping pad to raise my head a bit higher.
The idea of a sheet keeping the quilt in place looks like it might be a winning idea. However, the whole system looks a bit overly *busy* to me. I still can't bring myself to pack a pillow with me when I've been getting by pretty well with a DCF packing pod stuffed with my puffy jacket, covered with my Buff..... 0 additional grams 😉
Then don’t, that’s the beauty of the system. You can buy as much or as little of it as you want. I personally didn’t get the pillow or mattress, as I’m a stomach sleeper and the pillow is too tall for me to be comfortable, and I already had a Nemo pad
I got the light sheet on sale and use magnetic clips from Amazon that fit the sheet hooks, then attach the magnets to my quilt. Works like a charm, and only adds about 3.5 oz to my kit.
Here's a cottage gear idea: sell a set of fitted sheets and top sheet with elastic straps/clips to fit over any brand of sleep pad. Offer them for 22", 25", thin & thick pads from major brands. Watch the dollars roll in...maybe.
I have been curious about the Zenbivy UL system. But, I have curated a backpacking sleep system that works well for me in temps at or above 30°F. - Sleeping bag: Big Agnes Sidewinder SL 20 Women’s in regular. - Sleeping pad: Nemo Tensor Alpine Insulated in long-wide (there wasn’t a regular-wide available in the Alpine Insulated version). - Pillows: 1. Exped Mega Pillow (with shock cord attached for fastening to the sleeping pad). 2. Trekology Aluft 2.0 Pillow with pad strap. I sleep on my side and need extra head height (for reasons), so I attach the Exped pillow to the pad and then the Trekology pillow to the Exped pillow…stacked.)
As someone who tends to sleep hot, and also bring a quilt/pad much warmer than I need (because I only have one quilt and my winter pad is lighter than my summer one) I find the sheet makes a massive difference in my sleep comfort. I just made one with about $30 of materials from a Joann's. Just stitch a pocket on one end for the pad and stitch a sleeve for some cord to tie the bottom end to the pad. Not as ultralight but well worth the weight for the extra comfort I get.
I switched to Zen Bivy about 2 years ago. Love the hood mostly to keep my pillow in place. For that reason the uninsulated hood is optimal for me. It is not available on the ultra light, but the fast foot box on the other quilts is amazing as well. another thing you did not touch on is their compression sacks. They have a 1 way valve that lets you really crank down on them and make these quilts super small for fitting in your pack with very little effort. I just got an ultralight 25. I dont like it AS much, but it is still great, and helps me get my pack under target weight when I know I need to carry extra water or food. I also really appreciate their al a cart purchasing, and their customer service is extremely good.
Great example of why gear has a personal preference dimension. Having been a ZenBivy user for several years, and upgrading to the UL version I find it simply fantastic for me. Best sleep ever. Too bad Darwin didn’t try the pillow but if what he uses works great for him that’s fine. I thought long and hard about the weight of the pillow but tried it because the air pillows I’ve tried are not comfortable at all. Love this pillow, better than the one I have at home. As for the hood, it has to be below freezing to use it, it does keep the pillow in place and that contributes to the overall sleep experience for me. The pad; I really like the new one and find it very comfortable- I’m also a side sleeper who moves around a lot. I did upgrade while it was on sale and that makes the price more reasonable in my opinion- the list price is a bit steep but I sleep so well and that has value.
Since my army days 40÷ years ago, I have used a sleeping bag. Wore out my Kelty 20 degree bag will be replacing. Purchased a big agnes rapide at the beginning of last summer very comfortable for a 6'4", 250 side sleeper.
For transparency did you return the product to zenbivy or sell it? If you’re keeping it or selling it how is that not considered somekind of sponsorship / compensation?
I use the zenbivy quilt, occasionally the sheet on colder nights. Hate their pad, use the sea to summit ether something. And a thermarest compression pillow. And I’ve never had better sleep in the back country. It’s a mix and match for me
Send me that large pillow. It was sold out so I got the regular and wish it was bigger. I am not a thru hiker and sleep on my trips is top priority for me. Finally found comfort with my UL 25 zenbivy and my Light 10 Zenbivy - over a Big Agnes Rapide SL mattress. I can toss and turn (normal for me) and not get drafts. I need a big pillow - and the height from the Zenbivy pillow works for me. I have an enigma quilt and a sleeping bag and always grab one of the Zenbivy sets.
Hey Guys. I have never used a zen bivy sheet so I can't say for sure. But i THINK just adding ultra light bivy similar to an MLD super light gives maybe even better draft/warmth performance than then zen bivy sheet. Its around 6 to 7 ounces but is also multiuse. It gives you bug protection, warm, and the ability to cowboy camp with bug protection if the nights are nice. At the same time, I use it instead of an inner net under a pyramid shelter or tarp. Anyway, I like the idea of a zenbivy because I see the benifits of using a regular ultralight bivy, so I like the product. I just think people should consider a full bivy as well.
Thanks for a great review, Darwin. I’ve been using the ZenBivy system for about 6 years. I’ve got both the 10 and 25 degree quilts and an uninsulated sheet. I tried a traditional quilt and didn’t like the drafts when I tossed and turned. The side baffles are what continue to sell the ZB for me. I use a ThermARest pad and Sea To Summit pillow. My ZenBivy is one of my favorite 3 pieces of gear.
My wife has the 20 degree zenbivy light bed with the insulated hood. She really likes it. Doesn’t get cold anymore. She uses it with a thermarest neo air 25” pad.
I have always been curious about this. I well sleep similar to your setup. I really did enjoy the quality/ cost perspective versus Domestic and Foreign manufacturing. That was a solid review. Thanks, Dude!
I have the ultralight sheet and pillow system being a side sleeper and needing that extra pillow height is perfect. Like Darwin I go with a different pad but any way you slice and dice all these quilts and sleep systems you’re still paying a premium price. You have to choose what works best for you.
I do use a zenbivy. I have the old sheet that was full length but got the new ultralight quilt recently. It is actually just the right thing for me and I have tried a lot of bag and quilt options. I toss and turn all night and even with pad straps would find quilts leaving me exposed on one side and freezing. The side fabric and loops kept me from making a mess of things and I actually sleep through the night now which I never thought would be possible. I agree with the hood, useless except as a pillow barn. I don't own the pad, but use the sheet with my long/wide thermarest neo-topo (my luxury item 4 inch mattress). Also agree the pillow is extra. I have use mine and it is lovely, but I could get by with my nemo fillo elite. Great review love that you show that new (well marketed) gear is not always an improvement, especially over gear you have that works!
Loved the vid... I have the zenbivy 15 degree light bed and love it for car camping. I did not purchase the pillow nor the insulated hood for the same reasons as your vid. I just went with the basic sheet with no regrets. I use my 20 inch Xtherm for my sleep pad and works great. For backpacking I use the EE Revelation 20 degree custom quilt with my Xtherm when tent camping. when using my hammock I use the UGQ quilt sets.
Appreciate that and it's one of the main reasons to watch your channel. Also, that you always emphasize that it's your opinion and not a definitive answer for everyone. Now, how about an electrolyte (like LMNT) review if that's even possible.
I have pretty the same system as you. What I like? SIMPLICITY…. I use a folding 1/8” pad under my Thermarest, I am quite happy. The entire system packs well, and makes using a smaller pack much more doable. My pillow is a blow up sack for the pad, with my puffy and stuff in it.
I'll stick with my Big Agnes set up. I have the Anvil Horn 15 sleeping bag which is a hybrid of a quilt and sleeping bag. Then I use one of their 25x72 sleeping pads. Sorry can't remember which model pad it is.
Love my UGQ Bandit 20 deg & use use one pad strap. My favorite piece of gear - great to crawl into at night after a long day on the trail. Has never let me down over 4+ years of use. Also use the X-Lite - no complaints but I have to be a little particular in how much I inflate it.
Great review. The fabrics and down on the ZenBivy quilt are higher quality than enlightened equipment. They are also PFC free which is better for you and the environment and use gold coated dwr down which will have better moisture resistance.
I have the ultralight mattress and I like it as a back sleeper. The quilted pattern is the most comfortable for me. If you are a side sleeper, you have to blow it up all the way to not hit the ground.
Sounds like you can get sheet to use with the other parts of your sleep system that you like. I like the innovative DIY options to make it work. DIY is satisfying.
I toss and turn a lot, and for that, the Zenbivvy sheet with the quilt is far superior to anything else I have used over the years. It gives me a sense of freedom and cosiness, I find uniquely comfortable. I also turn the hood backwards over the sleeping pad as I don't need it. I agree the pillow seems overkill, and I will stick with the pillow I already have. As I already had the Nemo Tensor with an R 5.4 value, I didn't buy the Zenbivy pad. All in all, my combination works just fine.
Instead of 'the sheet' you can use a sleeping bag liner but use it on the outside to keep your quilt or bag tucked - for winter hiking in Scotland I always carry two liners. Thermal one for inside the bag and a lighter one to put the quilt inside. Toasty!! : )
I’ve used the Zenbivy system (sheet and quilt) and I love it. I love the hood because it’s not as constrictive as a sleeping bag. It’s very versatile. That said, I love my Revelation quilt and wouldn’t say the Zenbivy system is so much better. Can’t wait to try out their ultralight pad. I’ve been using the same pad as you’re using and while it’s light, it keeps me warm, the comfort is meh. I have sore hips, which is something I don’t have with the BA Rapide SL or S2M Ether light for instance. They’re not as warm though which is why I’m still looking for comfortable alternatives that also keep me warm.
My sleep system: First, I live down in the heat of the gulf coast, so my need for insulation is nearly nil. Mattress pad: Nemo tensor Pillows: Nemo Filo and cocoon travel pillow. (Broad shoulders. Need both to get enough thickness.) Blanket: Some Ozark Trail blanket. Most nights I only keep it for the weight on me.
I love the Thermarest neo Air . I have Same problem with the hips . I have the same pillow also It's perfect for any traveling really. But , I still turn my mummy bags upside down .. and lay on the cold zipper all night .
I think I have a pretty unique sleep system. I use a rumpl down blanket, that I got from Sierra for 70$ a seatosummit comfort light si, and a smartwool sleeping bag liner. And sts pillow like Darwin's. As a side sleeper, the si versions of sleep pads with the added foam really help with my boney shoulders and hips. It's worth the weight imo. 😅
I have to say I really like my ZenBivy set up. I just sleep a lot better which is worth a lot to me. I have the light bed system and got it on sale so it was pretty cheap but also not as light as the UL system. I only bought the sheet and quilt and used my existing REI pad and trekology pillow. Love it so much. But I’m also not thru hiking.
I agree on the pad for sure I went for the Exped Ultra 5R wide pad. The ultra light sheet and the light quilt are what I got from zenbivy. I also went for the same Sea To Summit pillow.
I agree with a lot of this video… I use the Zenbivy lite 0 degree, paired with my Nemo tensor pad, and a trekolgy inflatable pillow. The cost versus weight savings from light to ultralight is negligible. My set up definitely gives me the best night of sleep I get in the backcountry.
hey darwin , my version of a sheet is , imho, the best period cuz it is sooo versitale. I use a 1 of 2 bag liners . 1 is a cotton/silk mix , very soft lite n well,,,, silky.( Sea 2 Summit ).. the other is the S2S Thermolite Reactor. these 2 r very diff from each other but i LUV BOTH !! so what i do is slip the bag liner over the pad. i strart at the FOOT of the pad so that thhe valve is at the OPEN end of the bag liner !!! Y, cuz IF i want adjust air pressure in pad 4 whatever reaso i can do so with NO issue. my bags/quilts r EE Convert's, a winter & a summer ( if im goig artic 😅 i put the winter into the summer.... that on temp setting so 2 speak, if i put summer into winter thats a diff setting too. But the bag lineer over the pad is VERY comfy 😊❤!!! the liners r versatile 2 cuz i can sleep in or on them. !!! i can sit out of my tent & b in my linner for that bit of xtra warmth ( & bug defense ) !!!! it keps my pad in clean shape 2 !!!! my bags havee pad straps so een as a tosser n turner side sleeper i feaar no drafty voids !!!!!!! my pad is " rated " w a R of 6.5. So, Zen can sell to packer yuppies, i'll stick 2 my own multi sytem !!!!❤😂😅😊. and do u have any idea just how many line options out there ????? holy cow !! andnot just from S2S !!!! the brand Cocoon has there own line up as well as others. look for a liner ur pad will fit into ,duh😅 !. square or mummy,, the liner length does not have to 100% cover the pad either ! especially if u use socks at nite 😊. so u pick pad. u pick bag/s, u pick liner/s, u pick pillow or none, ...... man thats diversity if ever there was !!!! u have budget option also but still SAME set up !!!! eat ur hat Zen !!!!😅😂🎉😊 well ATB Darwin !! hope that put some kick in ur soup lol !!!!!😊
For folks who can’t figure out quilts or simply don’t like them the answer is a quality sleeping bag! This would still be lighter and higher-performing than the Zenbivy system. But yeah: more expensive, heavier and bulkier represents three strikes for me
Definitely true that it's all subjective. I could tell immediately with your pre-existing system that you wouldn't be impressed with this. I think you're in the minority of folks who actually enjoy the horizontal baffle structure and air pillow. The quilted pattern is vastly superior in comfort imo. I'm also a turner and side/stomach sleeper and you do bottom out but only if the pad isn't fully inflated. A 4" loft would've been better so you could let a little air out and make it even more comfortable. I don't get the pillow either but the topper was done for comfort more-so than heat retention. The bladder gives it loft, the topper provides more cushion. And the light system is a little heavier than the UL but a decent amount cheaper. I think if you're just starting out backpacking the investment into the light system is one of the best opportunities for a decent night's sleep in the backcountry.
It's true that comfort is so subjective. On the sleeping pad specifically, I sleep on my back and the quilted pattern is much less comfortable than the horizontal baffle for me. It's great that there are so many options to fit individual needs these days, everyone can build a setup that is uniquely comfortable to them!
@@stickybeats Makes sense! Horizontal on average is more comfortable for back sleepers. Or at the least more tolerable for folks that don't toss that much.
I'll be real, my Nemo setup has suited me wonderfully and I paid hundreds less. I have definitely shaved a lot of weight from my starting gear, going from near 40 lbs before water to around 20 lbs before water, but the comforts that my more traditional setup give me are worth every ounce to me.
I totally agree with you on every point for 3 season trekking. I use the Insulated Nemo Tensor pad. It works for my bony hips, and the first gen "OV" blow up pillow for years now. Works for me. BTW, interesting to hear about your Tri background. I raced back in the day when Lance A. and Mark Allen were competing. Worked, lived, and played in Boulder.
Great video. I love my UGQ quilt. Always though the pricing from Zenbivy was a bit on the high end. If someone wants a sheet take a super lightweight liner and put it over the pad. And if you want to go a step further get some silicone magnetic cable ties and MacGyver your own Zenbivy version.
To be fair, my WM sleeping bag is hella expensive, so I am probably north of that 800.00 mark in my sleep system, but that’s just it, my 25 degree WM Terralyte + ZPacks medium stuff sack with fleece lining (pillow) + Big Agnes Rapide SL is lighter then this system.. What’s nice though is my WM bag can be fully unzipped to be an over quilt, or fully zipped to be a SemiRec sleeping bag..best of both worlds and I have had it comfortably down to 15 degrees. Plus it is lighter than this ZB thing that the other guys keep gushing over. I love both the “in the field thoughts of the moment” interjected into your overall review, a very well done and articulate review!!!!
I’ve used a ton of sleeping bags, quilts, and all sorts of sleep systems but Zenbivy has been the best by far. For me personally at least. That includes on SAR missions, backpacking trips and car camping trips.
I bought the ‘light bed’ in 21 on a sale. It works AWESOME. I even bought 2 of the UL sheet to pair w my other quilts( have added loops & such to attach the sheet to other quilts YET)highly recommended. But.. 800$? No I paid maybe 340on sale.( it was not the Ul, they only had light then)
20D for any sleeping pad is a deal breaker for me. I wish so badly there were more options for thicker fabric pads, I would happily carry the extra weight for piece of mind. Seems so silly to buy an ultralight pad and also carry a foam pad to put underneath just in case. Xtherm has a 70D bottom and isn't much heavier, why not a 50D all around pad that's way more puncture resistant? Doesn't exist as far as I can tell.
A pillows primary function is comfort, so that's what look at first, and I find the ZB pillow to be much more comfortable than the Sea to Summit aeros. It also looks line they sent you the large pillow? It comes in a more reasonable 'regular' size too.
9:00 I could be wrong, but I think the down on the pillow is not for insulation as much as it is for the feel of the pillow. My pillow at home doesn't feel like a balloon. I don't want my camp pillow to feel like a balloon. My sleep system is a hammock and my pillow is the Nemo Fillo Elite. It's an inflatable pillow, but it has a layer of cushion on the top so it feels softer.
Oh, you got it for free, and they are not supporting you, and they dont even know what you are doing...so thats a notsponsership? I reached out to them and they also sent me stuff, but i had to pay for it. So I'm sponsering them? Love it btw, on my exped mats.
So you mentioned that you didn't see what the point of the down part of the pillow was and talked about insulation. Honestly that's not what it's about at all. Your pad that you and your pillow is sitting on is for insulation from below. That part is for comfort, to be soft. Lots of people find just air pillows to be kinda hard. That's why I use the Nemo Fillo because it's inflatable and has cushioning. That down is also because it will compress fairly well.
Regards to your pillow, I have been using the same pillow many years, not quite as many nights, but I have had to replace it 4 times due to leaks/ material break down. I was wondering have you had the same problem or am I doing something wrong? Good review and I agree with your conclusion.
I own 3 systems and I am also a bony side sleeper. The Zenbivy pads need to be inflated very tight to 1) keep your hips and shoulders from touching the ground and being uncomfortable 2) get the insulation value rating on the pad That said, they are just hands down more comfortable which if you value that over a few ounces then that is the value.
Great video, great thoughts. I picked one up during the Labor Day sale. No pads available but I see they had one to send you??!! Francine is drowning out any trips this weekend but I should get something done next weekend. I do tend to toss and turn and wake up cold in the middle of the night so maybe it helps.
It's so interesting to me that you dislike the baffling pattern of this pad. It's very similar to the baffling of the REI Helix, which my partner uses. It's the first pad we have gotten her that she can get a good night's sleep on, and she is a side sleeper. Typically these pads are able to better accommodate the pressure points caused by aide sleepers. I suppose everyone is a bit different though
@@TronForlox considering I work in the outdoor retail space and regularly outfit people on sleeping pads, yeah I do find it interesting that a side sleeper doesn't like a quilted baffle pattern. Every side sleep I've sold a pad to has vastly preferred the quilted baffle pads (tested among a variety of baffle patterns). So much so that sleeping position is the first aspect of a customer's sleep that I ask them about. But yeah, trolling is fun and I took the bait. Have wonderful day
I have the same issues as Darwin. I have two waffel patterned sleeping pads, one from Ali and one SeaToSummit. The problem for me is when I lie on the side, the hip goes into the ground. I didn't know this was a problem with the pattern.
@@jaysonmoore5166 I'm a side sleeper. I also prefer the sideways baffles on the Xlite. tried quilted baffles and had the same issues as Darwin. So there are at least 2 of us.
I purchased the UL 25degree quilt and the insulated sheet recently when they had the Labor Day sale. I bought the UL pad when it was on sale as well. I HATED using traditional quilts and I really enjoyed the zenbivy system but I still would only use a traditional Western Mountaineering Alpinlite for temps around or below freezing. I don’t think the zenbivy is all hype at all but I do think it’s overpriced at the regular retail price.
Wish you would have at least given the pillow a try, The down topper may not be insulating but feel like it definitely adds to the luxuriousness of the whole system. I feel like what pillow I use really makes or breaks my night of sleep, used to try and get away with stuffing extra things in a stuff sack, but since I found a 4 and 1/2 in tall inflatable pillow, my nights of sleep are much better. It's infinitely more comfy if I stuff the hood from my puffy inside my buff, which I use as a a pillow cover.
Personally, im careful to avoid the hype and things that are made to fund totalitarian regimes in China, Vietnam or Russia. Sea2Summit pad is comfortable and made in Taiwan. All US cottage brand quilts are great
I think it looks like a nice system and generally speaking I‘m big fan of companies trying to think outside the box. And if they have a good idea, well they can ask for a markup in price. As for the ZenBivy system however I‘m not convinced that it‘s really that much better and I‘m not convinced enought to potentially risk almost a grand for it.
I didn't even bother to hear what he says. I own this bivy system. I've hiked for 50+ years. This is my favorite piece of gear. My God it's comfortable and that's all that matters to me. How well did I sleep....great!
I have 2- Zenbivy Quilts. And a UGQ Outlaw 20degree I would take the Zenbivy over UGQ any day! So tell me this.. how are you gonna know if they filled that bag with what you asked for? Because I can tell you right now that UGQ Outdoors will not get me anywhere near 20°. It taps out at 50° whereas the Zenbivy puts me at temp.
My first reaction is, "Well there's no way I'd pay that much for a backpacking sleep system." Then I remembered that I'm saving up for a Superior Gear insulated hammock, which combined with my top quilt probably gets pretty close to that. So I guess I would. lol
Well done, don't agree pn Therm-a-Rest... those mats are not comfortable for most people. Crappy mats in my opinion (and I used the UBERLIGHT on the pct and used other mats). Some people can sleep on them but they are not comfortable mats for most that have problem sleeping in the outdoors 😊 Have a katabatic quilt when I go really ultra light and a UGQ for comfort. When its snow I use a western mountainering sleeping bag and the warmest Therm-a-Rest mat but in the summer I use the Nemo skeeping pads/matress instead or a big agnes for really high comfort sometimes.
I found this video quite interesting thanks for sharing. Totally agree with the 'Not that there is anything wrong with that' sentiment, but aren't the majority of Enlightened Equipment quilts made outside of the US, but just stuffed in the US to keep manufacturing costs down?
I like the idea of draft free sleeping, so I bought a Zenbivy sheet and attached loops to the side of my quilt with tenacious tape. It works great, doesn't weigh that much and my sleep got so much better due to less drafts. The full sheet feels like a real bed and removes the plastic feel of my sleeping pad.
- 2mm cord
- 8 patches
- The loops need to be inside the edge of the quilt by at least 25 cm (=9.84 inch)
- Attach the loops 35cm from the top of the quilt, spaced at 22 cm (=8.66 inch)
@medimalismus Any issues with the fit of the sheet on your pad as opposed to using the Zenbivy pad? If not, what pad are you using?
I really hope that I can rig that sheet up to my perfectly comfortable (4.6R Value 20oz) and affordable ($75) paria xl recharge with the paria 15 degree quilt ($150) that I have been using for the past 5 years!
@@JohnConstantine646I have a zen bivy system and use a Big Agnes Rapides wide pad.
@@mathewu9772 thank you!
Good and fair review. Full disclosure, I've owned a ZenBivy quilt and sheet for close to 5 years, and I love it. I can't speak to the mattress or pillow, but the sheet and quilt combo on a Nemo Tensor XL have given me the best sleep I've had in the backcountry in in 40+ years of camping. I'd buy it again without question. That said, I'm not an ultralight hiker and I understand your critiques of the system in that regard.
My wife and I have the lite beds in the 10f and we were able to buy narrower pads because an overlooked benefit of the sheet is that it cradles your arms preventing them from slipping off. Gotta factor that into the weight savings calculations plus I was able to merge the two into a puffy plush dream monster by simply connecting the loops on the inner meeting seams with some cut up pieces of rubberized gear ties. Bypassed having to permanently disfugure our quilts to achieve something similar with tape or other adhesives. I can't fathom how you'd do that with a revelation with fewer connection points along the perimeter without tape or sewing. Another plus for biv, marvelous for couples.
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Why are so many other youtuber using it? Agressive marketing and free gear!
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
I also have the same quilt you have, $460, a Thermarest Xtherm pad bought used for $150, and a Sea-to Summit pillow for $60. Total $670 and completely satisfied.
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I’m glad you raised the issue of the country of manufacture. Products made in the USA, or in Europe, are not necessarily more expensive than products made in Asia, despite much higher labor costs.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
Just went through this exact same process with the same comparable gear. What I ended up doing is keeping only the UL sheet and putting some Zpacks stackable loops on my Enigma. Pair it with my pad and my pillow and I get a much better system at only 2.7 ounces more allowing me to move more freely without the drafts. I’m 6’5” and 260, straps just aren’t enough.
I was actually thinking about doing the same. May I ask which loops you have used as zpacks is offering several different type of loops. Thanks.
I get to call Oregon my home and it truly makes me happy to hear you speak highly of our beloved mountain. I'm glad you see the beauty in it like I do.
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If you are a backpacker that really spends a lot of time out there and have the money, why not. For me, it looks like a gimmick. When it's warm, I unzip my mummy bag and use it like a quilt. When it's cold I zip up till only my nose sticks out. I use a trusty old z fold with a light air mattress on top. I never wake up on the ground and have a little seat while around camp. Total cost, about 90 dollars counting the duck down bag.
Ahhhhhh I literally just tried mine last night in the chilly British country side. Loved it!
I found the perfect solution for me: I bought the Sheet only and I have sewed the loops for the sheet to my existing 6 years old down quilt. Works very well and costs me like nothing more than the Sheet.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
Check out the Rock Front Ultralight 350 with sheet that the quilt zips onto.
Good for you for reviewing this product well. Your passion is showing and it blows those day packers opinions wide open. They’re YES MEN, keep this up Darwin! See ya out there, on the Collegiate Loop now 👍🏼
Since you can use any pad or pillow with the zenbivy you should just compare the Enigma to the ZB's quilt + sheet. The Enigma you spec is 1lb 5oz and costs $460, while the ZB is 1lb 6oz and costs $540. So basically the ZB is 4% heavier and 17% more expensive for a superior attachment system. depending on your priorities either eems reasonable.
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Appreciate the review & comparisons.
My goto for many years has been a WM Summerlite 30F sleeping bag, 19oz, $505 and Zlite Sol CCF pad at 15oz, $60. Total 34oz (2lb 2oz), $565. I recently posted a video on other Big 3/4 systems. More recently I'm using 1/8" pad &/or Reflectix as a pad. My priority is simplicity.
Always appreciate the honest reviews darwin!
Side sleeper here, but don’t hit the ground as mentioned, just gotta give the pad one or two more puffs so it holds better. That makes the pad more stiff but I think it’s better for my body/back to be more stiff than on the softer side. Also the waffle baffles are the way to go for pressure relief as a side sleeper, other pads will make my arms/shoulders go numb. I’m 6’2 and weigh 175pounds, Eastern Sierra weekend warrior, weight, qualify and simplicity are my big 3. I wouldn’t mind trying just the sheet out and sewing some loops onto my current quilt to make it work. I use a Sea to Summit Either Lite XT pad in women’s long, as women’s has a bit better R-value than the men’s yet smaller and lighter because of the shape, don’t need the square or wider top half as a side sleeper. Super comfy pad. Have a customer EE 20f quilt, 950 fill. Still exploring pillow combinations, but seems that the small Therms Rest Compressible pillow is the winner, a bit heavy and big but worth it, I throw my pants and ass pad under the head area of my sleeping pad to raise my head a bit higher.
The idea of a sheet keeping the quilt in place looks like it might be a winning idea. However, the whole system looks a bit overly *busy* to me. I still can't bring myself to pack a pillow with me when I've been getting by pretty well with a DCF packing pod stuffed with my puffy jacket, covered with my Buff..... 0 additional grams 😉
Then don’t, that’s the beauty of the system. You can buy as much or as little of it as you want. I personally didn’t get the pillow or mattress, as I’m a stomach sleeper and the pillow is too tall for me to be comfortable, and I already had a Nemo pad
Yeah I skipped the pillow and even went heavier with the 10° zippered system, (I go out in Alaska backcountry) and it's a dream honestly I love it!!
My combo REI Magma quilt 30f $168 on sale. Xlite Large $199. Trekology 2.0 pillow $17. $384 39oz.
Exactly. If you shop deals you can get a high quality sleep system for
Xlite $200, Thermorest pillow$45, since I do some hammock camping I have the Warbonnet Diamond Back, $350 Great quilt!
I got the light sheet on sale and use magnetic clips from Amazon that fit the sheet hooks, then attach the magnets to my quilt. Works like a charm, and only adds about 3.5 oz to my kit.
"HEADUP LES'T HAVE A CONVERSATION
Here's a cottage gear idea: sell a set of fitted sheets and top sheet with elastic straps/clips to fit over any brand of sleep pad. Offer them for 22", 25", thin & thick pads from major brands. Watch the dollars roll in...maybe.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
I have been curious about the Zenbivy UL system. But, I have curated a backpacking sleep system that works well for me in temps at or above 30°F.
- Sleeping bag: Big Agnes Sidewinder SL 20 Women’s in regular.
- Sleeping pad: Nemo Tensor Alpine Insulated in long-wide (there wasn’t a regular-wide available in the Alpine Insulated version).
- Pillows:
1. Exped Mega Pillow (with shock cord attached for fastening to the sleeping pad).
2. Trekology Aluft 2.0 Pillow with pad strap.
I sleep on my side and need extra head height (for reasons), so I attach the Exped pillow to the pad and then the Trekology pillow to the Exped pillow…stacked.)
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As someone who tends to sleep hot, and also bring a quilt/pad much warmer than I need (because I only have one quilt and my winter pad is lighter than my summer one) I find the sheet makes a massive difference in my sleep comfort. I just made one with about $30 of materials from a Joann's. Just stitch a pocket on one end for the pad and stitch a sleeve for some cord to tie the bottom end to the pad. Not as ultralight but well worth the weight for the extra comfort I get.
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I have to say I like sleeping bags. I'd happily sleep in one all the time.
The Sea to Summit Pillows are the bomb.
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I switched to Zen Bivy about 2 years ago. Love the hood mostly to keep my pillow in place. For that reason the uninsulated hood is optimal for me. It is not available on the ultra light, but the fast foot box on the other quilts is amazing as well. another thing you did not touch on is their compression sacks. They have a 1 way valve that lets you really crank down on them and make these quilts super small for fitting in your pack with very little effort. I just got an ultralight 25. I dont like it AS much, but it is still great, and helps me get my pack under target weight when I know I need to carry extra water or food. I also really appreciate their al a cart purchasing, and their customer service is extremely good.
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Recently bought the paria version for less than half of zens Heading to canyonlands soon to test it out
hmmm... Never tried any of their stuff. Have a great time out there!
@@DarwinOnthetrail so far just their tents and poles. 100 dollar gear that takes a beating
I've been running Nemo all season + ee revelation, with good results. Still deciding on a pillow!
Great example of why gear has a personal preference dimension. Having been a ZenBivy user for several years, and upgrading to the UL version I find it simply fantastic for me. Best sleep ever. Too bad Darwin didn’t try the pillow but if what he uses works great for him that’s fine. I thought long and hard about the weight of the pillow but tried it because the air pillows I’ve tried are not comfortable at all. Love this pillow, better than the one I have at home. As for the hood, it has to be below freezing to use it, it does keep the pillow in place and that contributes to the overall sleep experience for me. The pad; I really like the new one and find it very comfortable- I’m also a side sleeper who moves around a lot. I did upgrade while it was on sale and that makes the price more reasonable in my opinion- the list price is a bit steep but I sleep so well and that has value.
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You can use any pad. I have a neoair and the Zenbivy sheet and bag and love it.
I just got the zenbivy quilt and sheet. I also have the Nemo tensor with a sea to summit pillow. Best sleep I’ve ever had in the backcountry.
Since my army days 40÷ years ago, I have used a sleeping bag. Wore out my Kelty 20 degree bag will be replacing. Purchased a big agnes rapide at the beginning of last summer very comfortable for a 6'4", 250 side sleeper.
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For transparency did you return the product to zenbivy or sell it? If you’re keeping it or selling it how is that not considered somekind of sponsorship / compensation?
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I use the zenbivy quilt, occasionally the sheet on colder nights. Hate their pad, use the sea to summit ether something. And a thermarest compression pillow. And I’ve never had better sleep in the back country. It’s a mix and match for me
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Send me that large pillow. It was sold out so I got the regular and wish it was bigger. I am not a thru hiker and sleep on my trips is top priority for me. Finally found comfort with my UL 25 zenbivy and my Light 10 Zenbivy - over a Big Agnes Rapide SL mattress. I can toss and turn (normal for me) and not get drafts. I need a big pillow - and the height from the Zenbivy pillow works for me. I have an enigma quilt and a sleeping bag and always grab one of the Zenbivy sets.
Hey Guys. I have never used a zen bivy sheet so I can't say for sure. But i THINK just adding ultra light bivy similar to an MLD super light gives maybe even better draft/warmth performance than then zen bivy sheet. Its around 6 to 7 ounces but is also multiuse. It gives you bug protection, warm, and the ability to cowboy camp with bug protection if the nights are nice. At the same time, I use it instead of an inner net under a pyramid shelter or tarp.
Anyway, I like the idea of a zenbivy because I see the benifits of using a regular ultralight bivy, so I like the product. I just think people should consider a full bivy as well.
"HEADUP LES'T HAVE A CONVERSATION
Thanks for a great review, Darwin. I’ve been using the ZenBivy system for about 6 years. I’ve got both the 10 and 25 degree quilts and an uninsulated sheet. I tried a traditional quilt and didn’t like the drafts when I tossed and turned. The side baffles are what continue to sell the ZB for me. I use a ThermARest pad and Sea To Summit pillow. My ZenBivy is one of my favorite 3 pieces of gear.
"HEADUP LES'T HAVE A CONVERSATION
I have been extremely happy with my Thermarest Questsar bag, Sea to Summit Aeros UL pillow and Thermarest Pro Plus pad. They have never let me down.
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My wife has the 20 degree zenbivy light bed with the insulated hood. She really likes it. Doesn’t get cold anymore. She uses it with a thermarest neo air 25” pad.
10 degree
Their last sale was 30% off. You dont have to pay full price.
you don't have to pay anything! just wait until they go #2 and swoop in and take what you want 😂
I have always been curious about this. I well sleep similar to your setup. I really did enjoy the quality/ cost perspective versus Domestic and Foreign manufacturing. That was a solid review. Thanks, Dude!
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I have the ultralight sheet and pillow system being a side sleeper and needing that extra pillow height is perfect. Like Darwin I go with a different pad but any way you slice and dice all these quilts and sleep systems you’re still paying a premium price. You have to choose what works best for you.
Great summary and conclusion.
I do use a zenbivy. I have the old sheet that was full length but got the new ultralight quilt recently. It is actually just the right thing for me and I have tried a lot of bag and quilt options. I toss and turn all night and even with pad straps would find quilts leaving me exposed on one side and freezing. The side fabric and loops kept me from making a mess of things and I actually sleep through the night now which I never thought would be possible. I agree with the hood, useless except as a pillow barn. I don't own the pad, but use the sheet with my long/wide thermarest neo-topo (my luxury item 4 inch mattress). Also agree the pillow is extra. I have use mine and it is lovely, but I could get by with my nemo fillo elite. Great review love that you show that new (well marketed) gear is not always an improvement, especially over gear you have that works!
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
Loved the vid...
I have the zenbivy 15 degree light bed and love it for car camping. I did not purchase the pillow nor the insulated hood for the same reasons as your vid. I just went with the basic sheet with no regrets. I use my 20 inch Xtherm for my sleep pad and works great.
For backpacking I use the EE Revelation 20 degree custom quilt with my Xtherm when tent camping.
when using my hammock I use the UGQ quilt sets.
Finally a more balanced review!
I like to look at gear from all angles & always be neutral/logical with my thoughts
Appreciate that and it's one of the main reasons to watch your channel. Also, that you always emphasize that it's your opinion and not a definitive answer for everyone. Now, how about an electrolyte (like LMNT) review if that's even possible.
I have pretty the same system as you. What I like?
SIMPLICITY…. I use a folding 1/8” pad under my Thermarest, I am quite happy. The entire system packs well, and makes using a smaller pack much more doable. My pillow is a blow up sack for the pad, with my puffy and stuff in it.
I'll stick with my Big Agnes set up. I have the Anvil Horn 15 sleeping bag which is a hybrid of a quilt and sleeping bag. Then I use one of their 25x72 sleeping pads. Sorry can't remember which model pad it is.
Thank you Darwin
Love my UGQ Bandit 20 deg & use use one pad strap. My favorite piece of gear - great to crawl into at night after a long day on the trail. Has never let me down over 4+ years of use. Also use the X-Lite - no complaints but I have to be a little particular in how much I inflate it.
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Great review. The fabrics and down on the ZenBivy quilt are higher quality than enlightened equipment. They are also PFC free which is better for you and the environment and use gold coated dwr down which will have better moisture resistance.
How? The fill power in the Zenbivy is less, the fabrics are 1 to 1, and EE is fully PFC free with DWR coatings on all their fabrics.
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I have the ultralight mattress and I like it as a back sleeper. The quilted pattern is the most comfortable for me. If you are a side sleeper, you have to blow it up all the way to not hit the ground.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
Sounds like you can get sheet to use with the other parts of your sleep system that you like. I like the innovative DIY options to make it work. DIY is satisfying.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
I toss and turn a lot, and for that, the Zenbivvy sheet with the quilt is far superior to anything else I have used over the years. It gives me a sense of freedom and cosiness, I find uniquely comfortable. I also turn the hood backwards over the sleeping pad as I don't need it. I agree the pillow seems overkill, and I will stick with the pillow I already have. As I already had the Nemo Tensor with an R 5.4 value, I didn't buy the Zenbivy pad. All in all, my combination works just fine.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
Instead of 'the sheet' you can use a sleeping bag liner but use it on the outside to keep your quilt or bag tucked - for winter hiking in Scotland I always carry two liners. Thermal one for inside the bag and a lighter one to put the quilt inside. Toasty!! : )
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
I’ve used the Zenbivy system (sheet and quilt) and I love it. I love the hood because it’s not as constrictive as a sleeping bag. It’s very versatile. That said, I love my Revelation quilt and wouldn’t say the Zenbivy system is so much better.
Can’t wait to try out their ultralight pad. I’ve been using the same pad as you’re using and while it’s light, it keeps me warm, the comfort is meh. I have sore hips, which is something I don’t have with the BA Rapide SL or S2M Ether light for instance. They’re not as warm though which is why I’m still looking for comfortable alternatives that also keep me warm.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
My sleep system:
First, I live down in the heat of the gulf coast, so my need for insulation is nearly nil.
Mattress pad: Nemo tensor
Pillows: Nemo Filo and cocoon travel pillow. (Broad shoulders. Need both to get enough thickness.)
Blanket: Some Ozark Trail blanket. Most nights I only keep it for the weight on me.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
I love the Thermarest neo Air . I have Same problem with the hips . I have the same pillow also It's perfect for any traveling really. But , I still turn my mummy bags upside down .. and lay on the cold zipper all night .
I think I have a pretty unique sleep system.
I use a rumpl down blanket, that I got from Sierra for 70$ a seatosummit comfort light si, and a smartwool sleeping bag liner. And sts pillow like Darwin's.
As a side sleeper, the si versions of sleep pads with the added foam really help with my boney shoulders and hips. It's worth the weight imo. 😅
I have to say I really like my ZenBivy set up. I just sleep a lot better which is worth a lot to me. I have the light bed system and got it on sale so it was pretty cheap but also not as light as the UL system. I only bought the sheet and quilt and used my existing REI pad and trekology pillow. Love it so much. But I’m also not thru hiking.
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I agree on the pad for sure I went for the Exped Ultra 5R wide pad. The ultra light sheet and the light quilt are what I got from zenbivy. I also went for the same Sea To Summit pillow.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
I agree with a lot of this video… I use the Zenbivy lite 0 degree, paired with my Nemo tensor pad, and a trekolgy inflatable pillow. The cost versus weight savings from light to ultralight is negligible. My set up definitely gives me the best night of sleep I get in the backcountry.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
hey darwin ,
my version of a sheet is , imho, the best period cuz it is sooo versitale. I use a 1 of 2 bag liners . 1 is a cotton/silk mix , very soft lite n well,,,, silky.( Sea 2 Summit ).. the other is the S2S Thermolite Reactor. these 2 r very diff from each other but i LUV BOTH !! so what i do is slip the bag liner over the pad. i strart at the FOOT of the pad so that thhe valve is at the OPEN end of the bag liner !!! Y, cuz IF i want adjust air pressure in pad 4 whatever reaso i can do so with NO issue. my bags/quilts r EE Convert's, a winter & a summer ( if im goig artic 😅 i put the winter into the summer.... that on temp setting so 2 speak, if i put summer into winter thats a diff setting too. But the bag lineer over the pad is VERY comfy 😊❤!!! the liners r versatile 2 cuz i can sleep in or on them. !!! i can sit out of my tent & b in my linner for that bit of xtra warmth ( & bug defense ) !!!! it keps my pad in clean shape 2 !!!! my bags havee pad straps so een as a tosser n turner side sleeper i feaar no drafty voids !!!!!!! my pad is " rated " w a R of 6.5. So, Zen can sell to packer yuppies, i'll stick 2 my own multi sytem !!!!❤😂😅😊. and do u have any idea just how many line options out there ????? holy cow !! andnot just from S2S !!!! the brand Cocoon has there own line up as well as others. look for a liner ur pad will fit into ,duh😅 !. square or mummy,, the liner length does not have to 100% cover the pad either ! especially if u use socks at nite 😊. so u pick pad. u pick bag/s, u pick liner/s, u pick pillow or none, ...... man thats diversity if ever there was !!!! u have budget option also but still SAME set up !!!! eat ur hat Zen !!!!😅😂🎉😊
well ATB Darwin !! hope that put some kick in ur soup lol !!!!!😊
I use an Outdoor Vitals pillow, a UGQ XL Bandit 20 degree custom quilt, and a thermarest regular wide sleeping pad with a 1/8” foam pad underneath.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
For folks who can’t figure out quilts or simply don’t like them the answer is a quality sleeping bag! This would still be lighter and higher-performing than the Zenbivy system.
But yeah: more expensive, heavier and bulkier represents three strikes for me
Definitely true that it's all subjective. I could tell immediately with your pre-existing system that you wouldn't be impressed with this. I think you're in the minority of folks who actually enjoy the horizontal baffle structure and air pillow. The quilted pattern is vastly superior in comfort imo. I'm also a turner and side/stomach sleeper and you do bottom out but only if the pad isn't fully inflated. A 4" loft would've been better so you could let a little air out and make it even more comfortable. I don't get the pillow either but the topper was done for comfort more-so than heat retention. The bladder gives it loft, the topper provides more cushion. And the light system is a little heavier than the UL but a decent amount cheaper. I think if you're just starting out backpacking the investment into the light system is one of the best opportunities for a decent night's sleep in the backcountry.
It's true that comfort is so subjective. On the sleeping pad specifically, I sleep on my back and the quilted pattern is much less comfortable than the horizontal baffle for me. It's great that there are so many options to fit individual needs these days, everyone can build a setup that is uniquely comfortable to them!
@@stickybeats Makes sense! Horizontal on average is more comfortable for back sleepers. Or at the least more tolerable for folks that don't toss that much.
I have the XL synthetic quilt $119 ? and the regular sheet. I really liked it. I had my own mattress. i cannot use down because of allergies.
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I'll be real, my Nemo setup has suited me wonderfully and I paid hundreds less. I have definitely shaved a lot of weight from my starting gear, going from near 40 lbs before water to around 20 lbs before water, but the comforts that my more traditional setup give me are worth every ounce to me.
I totally agree with you on every point for 3 season trekking. I use the Insulated Nemo Tensor pad. It works for my bony hips, and the first gen "OV" blow up pillow for years now. Works for me.
BTW, interesting to hear about your Tri background. I raced back in the day when Lance A. and Mark Allen were competing. Worked, lived, and played in Boulder.
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Great video. I love my UGQ quilt. Always though the pricing from Zenbivy was a bit on the high end. If someone wants a sheet take a super lightweight liner and put it over the pad. And if you want to go a step further get some silicone magnetic cable ties and MacGyver your own Zenbivy version.
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To be fair, my WM sleeping bag is hella expensive, so I am probably north of that 800.00 mark in my sleep system, but that’s just it, my 25 degree WM Terralyte + ZPacks medium stuff sack with fleece lining (pillow) + Big Agnes Rapide SL is lighter then this system.. What’s nice though is my WM bag can be fully unzipped to be an over quilt, or fully zipped to be a SemiRec sleeping bag..best of both worlds and I have had it comfortably down to 15 degrees. Plus it is lighter than this ZB thing that the other guys keep gushing over. I love both the “in the field thoughts of the moment” interjected into your overall review, a very well done and articulate review!!!!
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I’ve used a ton of sleeping bags, quilts, and all sorts of sleep systems but Zenbivy has been the best by far. For me personally at least. That includes on SAR missions, backpacking trips and car camping trips.
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Katabatic Pallisade,S2S pillow, Thermarest x therm.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
Really good down to earth review Darwin, you make so much good sense to us- thanks for this! 🌱🍄👍
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
I bought the ‘light bed’ in 21 on a sale. It works AWESOME. I even bought 2 of the UL sheet to pair w my other quilts( have added loops & such to attach the sheet to other quilts YET)highly recommended. But.. 800$? No I paid maybe 340on sale.( it was not the Ul, they only had light then)
20D for any sleeping pad is a deal breaker for me. I wish so badly there were more options for thicker fabric pads, I would happily carry the extra weight for piece of mind. Seems so silly to buy an ultralight pad and also carry a foam pad to put underneath just in case. Xtherm has a 70D bottom and isn't much heavier, why not a 50D all around pad that's way more puncture resistant? Doesn't exist as far as I can tell.
A pillows primary function is comfort, so that's what look at first, and I find the ZB pillow to be much more comfortable than the Sea to Summit aeros. It also looks line they sent you the large pillow? It comes in a more reasonable 'regular' size too.
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9:00 I could be wrong, but I think the down on the pillow is not for insulation as much as it is for the feel of the pillow. My pillow at home doesn't feel like a balloon. I don't want my camp pillow to feel like a balloon.
My sleep system is a hammock and my pillow is the Nemo Fillo Elite. It's an inflatable pillow, but it has a layer of cushion on the top so it feels softer.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
Oh, you got it for free, and they are not supporting you, and they dont even know what you are doing...so thats a notsponsership? I reached out to them and they also sent me stuff, but i had to pay for it. So I'm sponsering them? Love it btw, on my exped mats.
So you mentioned that you didn't see what the point of the down part of the pillow was and talked about insulation. Honestly that's not what it's about at all. Your pad that you and your pillow is sitting on is for insulation from below. That part is for comfort, to be soft. Lots of people find just air pillows to be kinda hard. That's why I use the Nemo Fillo because it's inflatable and has cushioning. That down is also because it will compress fairly well.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ.
I wanna see a review of the featherstone moondance
Love my UGQ
Regards to your pillow, I have been using the same pillow many years, not quite as many nights, but I have had to replace it 4 times due to leaks/ material break down. I was wondering have you had the same problem or am I doing something wrong?
Good review and I agree with your conclusion.
I own 3 systems and I am also a bony side sleeper. The Zenbivy pads need to be inflated very tight to 1) keep your hips and shoulders from touching the ground and being uncomfortable 2) get the insulation value rating on the pad
That said, they are just hands down more comfortable which if you value that over a few ounces then that is the value.
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Great video. Always love your mannerisms and enunciation. They really make the video a Darwin video.
Great video, great thoughts. I picked one up during the Labor Day sale. No pads available but I see they had one to send you??!! Francine is drowning out any trips this weekend but I should get something done next weekend. I do tend to toss and turn and wake up cold in the middle of the night so maybe it helps.
It's so interesting to me that you dislike the baffling pattern of this pad. It's very similar to the baffling of the REI Helix, which my partner uses. It's the first pad we have gotten her that she can get a good night's sleep on, and she is a side sleeper. Typically these pads are able to better accommodate the pressure points caused by aide sleepers. I suppose everyone is a bit different though
Oh so it’s interesting to you that different people like different things. Cool story.
@@TronForlox considering I work in the outdoor retail space and regularly outfit people on sleeping pads, yeah I do find it interesting that a side sleeper doesn't like a quilted baffle pattern. Every side sleep I've sold a pad to has vastly preferred the quilted baffle pads (tested among a variety of baffle patterns). So much so that sleeping position is the first aspect of a customer's sleep that I ask them about. But yeah, trolling is fun and I took the bait. Have wonderful day
I have the same issues as Darwin. I have two waffel patterned sleeping pads, one from Ali and one SeaToSummit.
The problem for me is when I lie on the side, the hip goes into the ground. I didn't know this was a problem with the pattern.
@@jaysonmoore5166 I'm a side sleeper. I also prefer the sideways baffles on the Xlite. tried quilted baffles and had the same issues as Darwin. So there are at least 2 of us.
I purchased the UL 25degree quilt and the insulated sheet recently when they had the Labor Day sale. I bought the UL pad when it was on sale as well. I HATED using traditional quilts and I really enjoyed the zenbivy system but I still would only use a traditional Western Mountaineering Alpinlite for temps around or below freezing. I don’t think the zenbivy is all hype at all but I do think it’s overpriced at the regular retail price.
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Wish you would have at least given the pillow a try, The down topper may not be insulating but feel like it definitely adds to the luxuriousness of the whole system. I feel like what pillow I use really makes or breaks my night of sleep, used to try and get away with stuffing extra things in a stuff sack, but since I found a 4 and 1/2 in tall inflatable pillow, my nights of sleep are much better. It's infinitely more comfy if I stuff the hood from my puffy inside my buff, which I use as a a pillow cover.
Thanks for the info. Why haven't any of the US quilt companies come out with a matching sheet?
"HEADUP LES'T HAVE A CONVERSATION
I agree with everything you said about UGQ! 😂😂
Look into the history of UGQ… not exactly a model company without any controversy.
Personally, im careful to avoid the hype and things that are made to fund totalitarian regimes in China, Vietnam or Russia. Sea2Summit pad is comfortable and made in Taiwan. All US cottage brand quilts are great
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love my zen Bivy, but i use my own pad.. big agnes.. i have had my system for 3 or 4 years... also use my own pillow system
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I think it looks like a nice system and generally speaking I‘m big fan of companies trying to think outside the box. And if they have a good idea, well they can ask for a markup in price. As for the ZenBivy system however I‘m not convinced that it‘s really that much better and I‘m not convinced enought to potentially risk almost a grand for it.
It would be interesting to compare also the packing volume of your system and the Zenbivy. I think it takes much more space in the backpack.
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
I didn't even bother to hear what he says.
I own this bivy system. I've hiked for 50+ years.
This is my favorite piece of gear. My God it's comfortable and that's all that matters to me. How well did I sleep....great!
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
I have 2- Zenbivy Quilts. And a UGQ Outlaw 20degree I would take the Zenbivy over UGQ any day! So tell me this.. how are you gonna know if they filled that bag with what you asked for? Because I can tell you right now that UGQ Outdoors will not get me anywhere near 20°. It taps out at 50° whereas the Zenbivy puts me at temp.
"HEADUP LES'T HAVE A CONVERSATION
My first reaction is, "Well there's no way I'd pay that much for a backpacking sleep system." Then I remembered that I'm saving up for a Superior Gear insulated hammock, which combined with my top quilt probably gets pretty close to that. So I guess I would. lol
ᴛʜᴀɴᴋs ғᴏʀ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴄᴏᴍᴍᴇɴᴛ ʟᴇs'ᴛ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ᴀ ᴄᴏɴᴠᴇʀsᴀᴛɪᴏɴ
Well done, don't agree pn Therm-a-Rest... those mats are not comfortable for most people. Crappy mats in my opinion (and I used the UBERLIGHT on the pct and used other mats). Some people can sleep on them but they are not comfortable mats for most that have problem sleeping in the outdoors 😊
Have a katabatic quilt when I go really ultra light and a UGQ for comfort. When its snow I use a western mountainering sleeping bag and the warmest Therm-a-Rest mat but in the summer I use the Nemo skeeping pads/matress instead or a big agnes for really high comfort sometimes.
"HEADUP LES'T HAVE A CONVERSATION
I found this video quite interesting thanks for sharing.
Totally agree with the 'Not that there is anything wrong with that' sentiment, but aren't the majority of Enlightened Equipment quilts made outside of the US, but just stuffed in the US to keep manufacturing costs down?
Only the “In-Stock” quilts. All the custom quilts are still made in MN
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