As a former worker in a busy film lab in the 70s and 80's where we processed and printed hundreds of thousands of feet monthly, I'm amazed that a young person today has the enthusaim to pursue this as a passion. Big Kudos Analog Resurgence!
@@PolyFilmLabs Still a tiny percentage of what it once was. No lab can remain viable catering to hobbists. My city alone once had 12 motion picture labs, all are now long gone. After mixing film chemicals for years I hold no nostalgia for that time.
@@mycompasstv you are not wrong that commercial labs struggle but that there is exactly what we try to circumvent by being a social enterprise. No need to make a commercial return, just cover costs 😊 it works surprisingly well and lowers the cost by a half 😅
@@PolyFilmLabs I understand and praise your passion and altruism yet despite knowing better I strangely wish your venture well. However, as an old dog who has been in many fights I fear that the realities of a diminishing market and the basic concepts of return on investment is a fundamental principle / force too strong to ignore. Forgive me for giving you unsolicited advice as it's not in my nature and I certainly do not wish to rain on anyone's parade, but simply put.... please stop this madness before it's too late!
@mycompasstv I'm ever so slightly confused 😅 to qualify my statements I am also a chartered accountant so we certainly understand the economics. At the moment there's also of interest and support across Photo and Motion Picture film - we will keep it going as long as the chemicals and film are manufactured 😅
I’ve been developing 16mm Tri-X reversal for a few years with home brew D-19 and a bleach made from hydrogen peroxide and citric acid. I started out approximating D-19 by adding 3g/l of hydroquinone and 50g/l sodium carbonate to full-strength D-76. I’ve gotten really inconsistent results lately though, including reticulation and really dark images, so I’ll have to give your method a try. I’m really glad to see other approaches to solving this problem.
I used to do color slides at home. It was a bit of a bear mounting them, but at least you had the choice. B&W slides were always intriguing to me, but I must admit, medium format slides were something I always wanted to see, especially color. As a side note, off topic: I had a relative who grew up in printing and photography, the area of lithography was his specialty and everything film. He did the color work for the printing of National Geographic and later worked for the government in the satellite imagery. When he got older (he worked well into his 70's) they sent people in to see how he did things so they could write a computer program to do what he did, before he retired. One interesting thing. They got a roll of film of American POWs and IF they could identify them, they could make a claim for them from the North Vietnamese. The exposures were very low light and the film was of questionable quality. They gave the film to my relative and he got it to show quite a few prisoners whom they could identify, lives were saved. So, learning a talent is always a good thing. Plus, when he was a kid, he learned how to use a printing press, thereby saving the job of the alcoholic guy who was supposed to be doing the work. Make the most of opportunity. Even painful experiences are part of the fabric of life.
THATS GREAT. The look of the film is exactly what I enjoy most. All of the imperfections shine bright in this, clean crisp 4K reality that is the norm. The surreal coffee double exposure is why the so-called mistakes turn out to be the most interesting.
Reminds me of making copy photographs of prints on slide film for our portfolios in college. There were some older than me who had done the DIY reversal method with Tri-X. I always loved the warmer tones of those slides.
I wouldn't use D-76, you need a more active developer-- if you are wanting to use an off the shelf developer, try Dektol, undiluted with the Thiocyanate added. Also, after the clearing bath, do not rinse again, go directly to second developer. The iron out stuff may be causing your spots. Light redevelopment is not difficult, it's to completion, so simply opening the tank with a nearby lightbulb for several minutes will be fine, you can do this while it is sitting in the clearing bath. Light re-exposure + Dektol for 2nd developer (without the thiocyanate) should give you fewer streaks.
This process works great for reversing 16mm. I haven't tried processing Tri-X yet, but have done several rolls of 3378e sound recording film (if you want to experiment with this I highly recommend getting some, mono no aware in the US sells it for $20 a roll.). On one roll I didn't do a great job washing in between steps and got a similar streaky, inconsistent result as seen in Noah's video here. The rinse really is everything, and when done properly my results have been nearly as clean and consistent as those from a lab, something I really didn't think possible. I've been using a hardening fixer as a final step to improve the films durability when run through a projector, not sure if it really does much of anything though.
95% of what I HATE about film is dust/dirt on the film! Every time I decide I should digitize my thousands of film photos I usually spend 90% of the time cleaning up the images on my computer. After a roll or two I put everything away for a long time before I try to tackle the process. Noah, if you or some other film folks can come up with a repeatable process of getting clean film I would love to see that! However, I would like to thank for your current efforts and enthusiasm. 😊Don't stop.
Like you, the biggest problem I have with the Filmomat is the rinsing step. The Lomo tank’s ability to pour water in the top and drain in a continuous cycle means you can really get a good flush out.
In the 1970's, I used High Contrast Copy film to copy black-and-white negatives, which yielded "black-and-white transparencies" without any exotic chemicals or unusual "fogging" steps. Later on, I also tried H&W Control Film (Agfa Cpoex Pan/ Pan Rapid) with interesting results.
Yes! Someone else experimenting with reversal 😍 I stumbled across Iron Out literally last week and the magic of Dithionite (Sodium Hydrosulfite) - love it, keep it up ❤
Nice follow up to your previous video, That first one on B&W Reversal got me deep into making black and white slides at home (although with a modified recipe) so thanks.
Looks great....even the " coffee in a park" at the beginning of the film. One of the things which makes FP4 the best reversal film is his amount of silver. It is the highest, compared to al other
I've done reversal in a few hack ways, one that is pretty single was: (1) bleach the film with acidic sodium dichromate plus NaCl; (2) Redevelop in Thiourea or polysulfide or a mixture (crazy chocolate colors may appear with mixture of both); (3) Optional: Tone it with Selenium. After those process, the film is basically bullet proof fade wise e.g. even acidic dichromate or permanganate can not bleach it away after those processes. PS: If you scare of the dichromate (Cr 6+ you should!) it can be reduced to Cr 3+ (way less toxic) by using Sulfite solution, the dichromate will turn from orange to greenish blue. PS 2: Of course, for (1) to work, your film should have been properly developed (and fixed) first, and on top of that, the sepia toner (thiourea or polysulfide) alters the contrast, highlights, shadows a lot, you should use test strips and do a lot of tests and keep track of your method e.g. concentrations, time, etc. PS 3: Use fixer based on Thiocyanate of ammonia always it is blazing fast and do the job for real and final and stop bath of citric acid forget about acetic acid the smell is terrible and the citric acid does not have a smell, thank me later!
Well, I've done both this process with and without Iron Out. Without it, re-exposing, redeveloping etc has been quite good for me. But today I tried to use Iron Out. But then did some extra fixing just to be sure... and the image completely dissapeared in just a few seconds. So it was not redeveloped, I presume. I can only think of one mistake, that I used tap water instead of distilled water. Because all the other elements where done as instructed.
It’s good to see you back posting sir! I think your results are great! I’m really hoping to either find 3D printed spirals, or make them myself, to accommodate 100’ reels of 16mm film for a realistic, affordable price, because I can’t afford a Filmomat, dev.a or other brand system. Even the solo Filmomat 16mm tank/spiral kit is out of my reach. I’ve come close by using an old vinyl LP as a base and gluing “spirals” of wire or string, etc. to it, but have yet to get it right. I have the tank part figured out, using large sewer pipe, but man oh man there’s just got to be a way! In the meantime I’ll just continue to use my UPB-1A and develop 50’ of film at a time.
hi, what if the ammonia is scented? Most household ammonia I found is with perfume. I presume the 6% concentration is the normal one for house cleaning.
Those spots in the slides look a lot like what I got from bad fixer that was exposed to air. I think it is sulfur crystals or something that starts to form. Lesson learned, ilford rapid fix bottles are not air tight. Could be the same problem?
Hi I have a question about the bleach process you use. For the ferric chloride are you using a hydrous solution and then further diluting or are you using anhydrous and then diluting with water? If you’re using anyhdrous how many grams are you using? Im so excited to try this out!
Svema FN64 is a beautiful film and while it's great as a negative, I've gotta try and turn it into a positive at some point in my life. I know it'll be stunning.
As a rule, the active chemistry should ALWAYS be distilled water. Consistent results are much easier to achieve this way. Sure it may cost more but in the long run your negatives or positives will just look much better.
Interesting! How does the chemicals reach the film when you load the film so tight in that tank? I am used to a paterson reel where there is space between the film so that the chemicals reach the whole roll! keep up the good work!
Noah -- that's a lot of work! But the results are cool -- both 16mm and 35mm -- despite some artifacts of the process, the images don't look exactly like other films processed normally. Cool! And where did you get that awesome silver Barbie/GI Joe tent??????
Why doesnt kodak offer tri-x reversal still film? I feel like in the age of scannings reversals film should become more common! Less adjusting levels and dealing with color casts from the film stock, just the image off the film!
I’m sure you may have already thought of this, but have you tried cleaning the slides with some PEC-12 and PEC pads? Or is the smudging engrained in the emulsion now?
Unfortunately it’s on the emulsion and I tried cleaning! But I’ve had other results that are perfectly clean so it could just be a random fluke this time around.
I have a Bolex at home from my late father. I meant to shoot some films as well, but the costs are just prohibitive. For a single 3-4 min roll it would be £100. Home developing could bring the costs down, but then this seems to be a huge effort. I develop my photographic film myself, including paper prints, but motion picture seems to be an entirely different kettle of fish. The results are nice though. I agree with the previous comment that the coffee in the beginning is great. Did you not say in a previous video that the reversal processing is awfully toxic? (I think it was the bleaching step). That put me off the home reversal as well.
Sorry to be THAT kind of replay guy but i've been looking on and off since first watching this video and i've not had much success, so would you be so kind to to confirm the make and model of that desktop changing tent? As someone dabbling in DIY 8 and 16MM home filmmaking and who has a finite amount of space, it seems like the perfect alternative to some of the walk in tent options i've seen.
Brave or insane, with you maybe both. That tank. You made it work, successful. Think of how many mothers will curse your name soon as their children give this a go whether it is the movie reel or still photo negatives in the family bathroom or kitchen.
A "corona mask" does not protect you from any toxic gases, such as ammonia. If you are concerned about this, you should use a proper gas mask with an active charcoal filter.
Written steps for the process can be found here: www.patreon.com/posts/91826091
As a former worker in a busy film lab in the 70s and 80's where we processed and printed hundreds of thousands of feet monthly, I'm amazed that a young person today has the enthusaim to pursue this as a passion. Big Kudos Analog Resurgence!
We process tons of it, mostly for young film-makers here in the UK 😍 plenty of people interested still!! 😊
@@PolyFilmLabs Still a tiny percentage of what it once was. No lab can remain viable catering to hobbists. My city alone once had 12 motion picture labs, all are now long gone. After mixing film chemicals for years I hold no nostalgia for that time.
@@mycompasstv you are not wrong that commercial labs struggle but that there is exactly what we try to circumvent by being a social enterprise. No need to make a commercial return, just cover costs 😊 it works surprisingly well and lowers the cost by a half 😅
@@PolyFilmLabs I understand and praise your passion and altruism yet despite knowing better I strangely wish your venture well. However, as an old dog who has been in many fights I fear that the realities of a diminishing market and the basic concepts of return on investment is a fundamental principle / force too strong to ignore.
Forgive me for giving you unsolicited advice as it's not in my nature and I certainly do not wish to rain on anyone's parade, but simply put.... please stop this madness before it's too late!
@mycompasstv I'm ever so slightly confused 😅 to qualify my statements I am also a chartered accountant so we certainly understand the economics.
At the moment there's also of interest and support across Photo and Motion Picture film - we will keep it going as long as the chemicals and film are manufactured 😅
I’ve been developing 16mm Tri-X reversal for a few years with home brew D-19 and a bleach made from hydrogen peroxide and citric acid. I started out approximating D-19 by adding 3g/l of hydroquinone and 50g/l sodium carbonate to full-strength D-76.
I’ve gotten really inconsistent results lately though, including reticulation and really dark images, so I’ll have to give your method a try. I’m really glad to see other approaches to solving this problem.
I used to do color slides at home. It was a bit of a bear mounting them, but at least you had the choice. B&W slides were always intriguing to me, but I must admit, medium format slides were something I always wanted to see, especially color.
As a side note, off topic: I had a relative who grew up in printing and photography, the area of lithography was his specialty and everything film. He did the color work for the printing of National Geographic and later worked for the government in the satellite imagery. When he got older (he worked well into his 70's) they sent people in to see how he did things so they could write a computer program to do what he did, before he retired. One interesting thing. They got a roll of film of American POWs and IF they could identify them, they could make a claim for them from the North Vietnamese. The exposures were very low light and the film was of questionable quality. They gave the film to my relative and he got it to show quite a few prisoners whom they could identify, lives were saved. So, learning a talent is always a good thing. Plus, when he was a kid, he learned how to use a printing press, thereby saving the job of the alcoholic guy who was supposed to be doing the work. Make the most of opportunity. Even painful experiences are part of the fabric of life.
THATS GREAT. The look of the film is exactly what I enjoy most. All of the imperfections shine bright in this, clean crisp 4K reality that is the norm. The surreal coffee double exposure is why the so-called mistakes turn out to be the most interesting.
Reminds me of making copy photographs of prints on slide film for our portfolios in college. There were some older than me who had done the DIY reversal method with Tri-X. I always loved the warmer tones of those slides.
I would love to see 4x5 b&w reversals in future!
Other film that has a clear base are some Rollei stock. Retro 400, RPX 25 and Ortho 25
I wouldn't use D-76, you need a more active developer-- if you are wanting to use an off the shelf developer, try Dektol, undiluted with the Thiocyanate added. Also, after the clearing bath, do not rinse again, go directly to second developer. The iron out stuff may be causing your spots. Light redevelopment is not difficult, it's to completion, so simply opening the tank with a nearby lightbulb for several minutes will be fine, you can do this while it is sitting in the clearing bath. Light re-exposure + Dektol for 2nd developer (without the thiocyanate) should give you fewer streaks.
This process works great for reversing 16mm. I haven't tried processing Tri-X yet, but have done several rolls of 3378e sound recording film (if you want to experiment with this I highly recommend getting some, mono no aware in the US sells it for $20 a roll.). On one roll I didn't do a great job washing in between steps and got a similar streaky, inconsistent result as seen in Noah's video here. The rinse really is everything, and when done properly my results have been nearly as clean and consistent as those from a lab, something I really didn't think possible. I've been using a hardening fixer as a final step to improve the films durability when run through a projector, not sure if it really does much of anything though.
95% of what I HATE about film is dust/dirt on the film! Every time I decide I should digitize my thousands of film photos I usually spend 90% of the time cleaning up the images on my computer.
After a roll or two I put everything away for a long time before I try to tackle the process.
Noah, if you or some other film folks can come up with a repeatable process of getting clean film I would love to see that!
However, I would like to thank for your current efforts and enthusiasm. 😊Don't stop.
Not bad, not bad at all. Good job! So happy to see someone doing home developing of movie film. Keep it up, you're doing great!
Like you, the biggest problem I have with the Filmomat is the rinsing step. The Lomo tank’s ability to pour water in the top and drain in a continuous cycle means you can really get a good flush out.
In the 1970's, I used High Contrast Copy film to copy black-and-white negatives, which yielded "black-and-white transparencies" without any exotic chemicals or unusual "fogging" steps. Later on, I also tried H&W Control Film (Agfa Cpoex Pan/ Pan Rapid) with interesting results.
Yes! Someone else experimenting with reversal 😍 I stumbled across Iron Out literally last week and the magic of Dithionite (Sodium Hydrosulfite) - love it, keep it up ❤
Nice follow up to your previous video, That first one on B&W Reversal got me deep into making black and white slides at home (although with a modified recipe) so thanks.
Looks great....even the " coffee in a park" at the beginning of the film. One of the things which makes FP4 the best reversal film is his amount of silver. It is the highest, compared to al other
I've done reversal in a few hack ways, one that is pretty single was: (1) bleach the film with acidic sodium dichromate plus NaCl; (2) Redevelop in Thiourea or polysulfide or a mixture (crazy chocolate colors may appear with mixture of both); (3) Optional: Tone it with Selenium. After those process, the film is basically bullet proof fade wise e.g. even acidic dichromate or permanganate can not bleach it away after those processes.
PS: If you scare of the dichromate (Cr 6+ you should!) it can be reduced to Cr 3+ (way less toxic) by using Sulfite solution, the dichromate will turn from orange to greenish blue.
PS 2: Of course, for (1) to work, your film should have been properly developed (and fixed) first, and on top of that, the sepia toner (thiourea or polysulfide) alters the contrast, highlights, shadows a lot, you should use test strips and do a lot of tests and keep track of your method e.g. concentrations, time, etc.
PS 3: Use fixer based on Thiocyanate of ammonia always it is blazing fast and do the job for real and final and stop bath of citric acid forget about acetic acid the smell is terrible and the citric acid does not have a smell, thank me later!
wow this is cool I actually just tried the black and white reversal developing like a week ago
Your channeli s incredibly interesting and valuable .... thank you for putting in this amount of work to inform and entertain us ...
Well, I've done both this process with and without Iron Out. Without it, re-exposing, redeveloping etc has been quite good for me. But today I tried to use Iron Out. But then did some extra fixing just to be sure... and the image completely dissapeared in just a few seconds. So it was not redeveloped, I presume. I can only think of one mistake, that I used tap water instead of distilled water. Because all the other elements where done as instructed.
It’s good to see you back posting sir! I think your results are great! I’m really hoping to either find 3D printed spirals, or make them myself, to accommodate 100’ reels of 16mm film for a realistic, affordable price, because I can’t afford a Filmomat, dev.a or other brand system. Even the solo Filmomat 16mm tank/spiral kit is out of my reach. I’ve come close by using an old vinyl LP as a base and gluing “spirals” of wire or string, etc. to it, but have yet to get it right. I have the tank part figured out, using large sewer pipe, but man oh man there’s just got to be a way! In the meantime I’ll just continue to use my UPB-1A and develop 50’ of film at a time.
hi, what if the ammonia is scented? Most household ammonia I found is with perfume. I presume the 6% concentration is the normal one for house cleaning.
Great video. It looks like you got a good workout!
Those spots in the slides look a lot like what I got from bad fixer that was exposed to air. I think it is sulfur crystals or something that starts to form. Lesson learned, ilford rapid fix bottles are not air tight. Could be the same problem?
Thanks for the recipe!
Hi I have a question about the bleach process you use. For the ferric chloride are you using a hydrous solution and then further diluting or are you using anhydrous and then diluting with water? If you’re using anyhdrous how many grams are you using? Im so excited to try this out!
Svema FN64 is a beautiful film and while it's great as a negative, I've gotta try and turn it into a positive at some point in my life. I know it'll be stunning.
As a rule, the active chemistry should ALWAYS be distilled water. Consistent results are much easier to achieve this way. Sure it may cost more but in the long run your negatives or positives will just look much better.
Interesting!
How does the chemicals reach the film when you load the film so tight in that tank?
I am used to a paterson reel where there is space between the film so that the chemicals reach the whole roll!
keep up the good work!
Memories of developing black and white film when i was young....
Noah -- that's a lot of work! But the results are cool -- both 16mm and 35mm -- despite some artifacts of the process, the images don't look exactly like other films processed normally. Cool! And where did you get that awesome silver Barbie/GI Joe tent??????
Great stuff 👏👏👏
Why doesnt kodak offer tri-x reversal still film? I feel like in the age of scannings reversals film should become more common! Less adjusting levels and dealing with color casts from the film stock, just the image off the film!
I’m sure you may have already thought of this, but have you tried cleaning the slides with some PEC-12 and PEC pads? Or is the smudging engrained in the emulsion now?
Unfortunately it’s on the emulsion and I tried cleaning! But I’ve had other results that are perfectly clean so it could just be a random fluke this time around.
Since you're pouring chemicals that are above your head, goggles would be a really good idea.
I have a Bolex at home from my late father. I meant to shoot some films as well, but the costs are just prohibitive. For a single 3-4 min roll it would be £100. Home developing could bring the costs down, but then this seems to be a huge effort. I develop my photographic film myself, including paper prints, but motion picture seems to be an entirely different kettle of fish. The results are nice though. I agree with the previous comment that the coffee in the beginning is great.
Did you not say in a previous video that the reversal processing is awfully toxic? (I think it was the bleaching step). That put me off the home reversal as well.
Sorry to be THAT kind of replay guy but i've been looking on and off since first watching this video and i've not had much success, so would you be so kind to to confirm the make and model of that desktop changing tent? As someone dabbling in DIY 8 and 16MM home filmmaking and who has a finite amount of space, it seems like the perfect alternative to some of the walk in tent options i've seen.
It's a Harrison Changing Tent! cameraessentials.com/product-category/harrison-film-changing-tents
This was fantastic, can I bring you some film?
Brave or insane, with you maybe both. That tank. You made it work, successful. Think of how many mothers will curse your name soon as their children give this a go whether it is the movie reel or still photo negatives in the family bathroom or kitchen.
1200 US ?
A "corona mask" does not protect you from any toxic gases, such as ammonia. If you are concerned about this, you should use a proper gas mask with an active charcoal filter.
You’re not wrong, I’ll be using a heavy duty mask for future processing with this stuff!
Rule number one for film home processing…don’t have a cat 🫢