Here's Why Pace Matters When Picking a Race Shoe
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- Опубліковано 6 чер 2024
- Dozens of new race shoes are releasing this year, and there's more choice than ever when it comes to picking a marathon shoe. As such, there are a few alternative perspectives on whether pace is important when choosing a racer. In this video, I clarify why pace does indeed matter when deciding what shoe you'll buy to race your next marathon.
0:00 - Intro
1:23 - Mechanics
9:41 - Bodyweight
13:32 - Time on Feet
18:31 - Tying It Together
Here's the study I cited when talking about how racing shoes can improve running economy (make your fast speed feel easier) for recreational runners. The test was done using 6 minute treadmills intervals, which as I mention in the video, is much a different type of running from a 3+ hour marathon where comfort starts to become more important than top speed/running economy. www.researchgate.net/publicat...
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This is exactly right. So many reviewers act like there’s an objectively correct shoe that works for everyone. There’s just no way that elite runners who weight 130 pounds are going to need what I need as a big boy (6’2”/270ish). Right now, the Brooks Hyperion Elite 2 is working incredibly well for me while getting bad reviews from faster and smaller reviewers. To me, that makes perfect sense because the firmer foam and plate setup seems to hit a sweet spot for someone my size and goal pace. Find what works for you and then chase shoes with those qualities.
Wow you're big are you well endowed too my sister is asking but she's shy.
Fellow heavy runner here (6’4”/250) and you’re spot on. Everyone will be different and want different things.
Can you elaborate on what you like about the hyperion? I'm 6'2 230 and gave up on brooks because they were too stiff for me. But this was years ago and I haven't given them a chance since.
@@TheBodyFirmATL, their shoes are still extremely stiff and heavy feeling.
@@CornFed_3 Thanks for confirming that, I refuse to do stiff shoes with an arthritic knee and modern advances in foam.
You're quite new to the running shoe review game, but you're already better than most of the people who have been doing this for years and have over 100,000 subscribers. Keep it up!
🙌🏽
Agree 100%!
Your channel has been an absolute gem of a discovery. You're really eloquent and I love the in-depth videos.
Thanks for everything!
Too many people stay away from this topic, but it’s what we need to discuss. Thank you
100% agree. I'm 130 lbs. soaking wet. When you add in a force multiplier like running, of course I'm going to experience the shoe differently than someone who is 160-180 lbs. Then, with variations of biomechanics, it makes a lot of sense that different shoes might be best for different individuals. I also wear a 10.5 but I think I might be more sensitive to shoe weight than you are because I'm probably not as strong and a heavier shoe can change my mechanics. It's great we have so many choices.
@kuriosites, what shoe/s do you run in?
he got me hooked on the deviate nitro 2 😂@@markm3747
@@markm3747 My current rotation is the Hyperion Max, Noosa Tri 14, Rebel v3, and Deviate Nitro 2. The first three I got on deep discount around Black Friday and the Deviate Nitro 2 was my do-it-all shoe for the second half of 2023 but it refuses to die (about 575 miles so far).
I think if you're a runner watching videos about carbon shoes you probably aren't triggered by the topic of body weight lol
Best running channel!! Keep it up. Really enjoy your reviews!
Thank you for bringing up these points. I'm actually quite relieved that a running influencer is finally bringing these points up. I've had all these questions up in my head but no one seems to be pointing them out on UA-cam where the majority of my running knowledge comes from.
Literally the question in my head going in to LAM this weekend. Glad I came across this video, thank you!
I really appreciated this chat. I’ve spent a long time trying to become a forefoot striker and have realized that my 6’2”, fairly healthy 230lb self is just a heel striker. Your comments on that made perfect sense. Time for me to read some of those books!
It’s obvious that we get the benefit of your story on this fantastic sport. Newer subscriber and happy to be here! Thanks.
I don't know if you tried this method already, and if you still want to try moving your strike point, but if you are then give this a go.
Shorten your forward stroke on arm swing by about 1.5 inches, and you'll gain about 10 spm on cadence, which will move your strike point forward. In other words, try shortening your punch.
A quick experiment would be to run funny and over stride as much as you can, and you'll notice your arms swinging massively forward. It's basically a reverse of that.
@@bkmk I appreciate the comment and have, in the past, done this exact thing. When I move from half/full marathon to li get trail ultras, mid to forefoot striking began causing plantar and Achilles issues. I began switching to a heel/mid strike (depending on terrain more than anything) and have transitioned to more heel than anything. At this point, I’m good with it but couldn’t explain (even to myself) why. This video helped settle it in my head.
@@chad.haggerty Yeah I picked up Altras in June of last year. Ran ~ 2 months in them while traveling on 4-6 mile runs 3 days a week. First time I've ever had my achilles tighten up on me. Coming up a hill on Mile 5 of my run I thought I had pulled it. Luckily I didn't, but it made me weary about going too hard into 0mm drop shoes. I still like my shoes, but I think it made me forefoot strike just a little too much.
@@Jaigarful that sounds familiar. Hope it’s feeling better, @jaigarful!
This is one of the best videos I’ve seen explaining shoe difference on size and speed etc. Just ran my first marathon in 4 hours with the Deviate Nitro 2. Great shoe for the half or so but my ankles were killing my from 20ish on. Probably a lack of training but this video explained well why some shoes are better for others. Love it!
I mid-foot strike at both slow and fast paces so there are exceptions to all of this. Thanks for all of your great videos!
Definitely one of the best shoe review videos on UA-cam. Thank you for making this abundantly clear for super shoe marathoners who will run over 3 hours for the marathon. Majority of running shoe reviewers seem to run their marathons between 2:30-3:15 so while their points might be valid, it doesn't really apply to the majority of marathoners.
hey! im a heavier runner and i appreciate the way you went around making this video. i ended up buying the new balance as a result!
Please continue discussing how well a shoe would be for a heavier runner. I'm heavier at 220 lbs and prioritize lifting over running so it's an important criteria for me. I'm on a weight cut right now but don't ever plan on being less than 200 lbs.
I'm in the same situation. I want to keep my bench at 2 plates-ish and I don't see myself ever dropping below 200 (I'm 6"0). These vids are super useful because I absolutely love running.
You're gradually becoming my favourite running shoe reviewer. It's refreshing to see a reviewer who understands that there are factors that must be considered beyond the hype of simply buying a super shoe.
You didn't know there was other things to consider ?
Awesome breakdown and differentiation between the need of different type of runners. Thanks!
Great video. Makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
Brilliant video for us older slower but just as committed runners. I just ordered the AF3 for my upcoming half marathon which I’m aiming to complete in 2 hours. I’m not even sure if I’m a heel striker or midfoot but what the hell! Shall subscribe now and watch for insights. Thank you!
Wow, so many interesting facts. Thanks, mate!
Happy weekend brotha
Just came across your channel. Love the video. Well thought out and beneficial. I can see why it’s getting the views!!
🙌🏽 thank you!
There was a great discussion about this very topic in Kofuzi’s channel in response to his review of Salomon’s S/Lab Spectur which is designed for 3.5 hour or slower marathoners. He said the shoe was great but couldn’t recommend it for several reasons. He explained his dislike for pace-based shoes. The community, myself included, seemed mostly happy that somebody was making with their abilities in mind. The timing of your video is perfect.
Beyond Kofuzi’s sort of indignation, I agreed with his sentiment around effort. Someone doing 3:45 is working just as hard as someone doing 2:45 if it’s at their respective race effort. I don’t have an answer if these “rest of us” shoes actually fit the need better or anything, but just my two cents.
I felt it was completely off base and elitist..of course it does depend on if you buy your own shoes or if you get them free..much better to get a shoe that will work for YOU and not for the manufacturers..
@thomasabbottjr I totally agree 👍🏾
I would love Yowana to review the S/Lab Spectur, and his thoughts on the topic brought by Kofuzi.
I get the point that Kofuzi made, that people may feel patronizing if someone (or in the S/Lab Spectur case, a company) says that there is an option for you if you are slower… but that is all in the framing of the message. As Yowana just perfectly explained through this video and at the end, when choosing our shoes we should not look at it from the lenses of equality, but of equity!
Aren't there already shoes for those running slower marathons+? Is a super shoe really needed for someone running a 5hour marathon?
And again,a fantastic video,great comparison,really appreciate it.
Can't wait for your Pro 4 review and a head to head compare to the Sc Elite🙏👊
thank you!
me too!@@supwell
you info and videos is a breath of fresh air in the sea of buy this and buy that
Thank you! 🙌🏽
Extremely well explained and well done video.
thank you!
Great video! Very insightful- you mentioned books - do you have a video or a list of recommended books for marathon running?
I'm 210 pounds, and I agree 100% about the difference in pace for a half and full marathon. In my experience, the Saucony Endorphin Elite worked great for my pacing and gave me a good time for my full marathon. That shoe has the perfect weight and stability underfoot to go the distance.
First, i'm really happy that you like the puma deviate nitro 2 since i love that shoe 😁
I'm also really happy that you bring up these subjects because i think that often they are neglected in shoes reviews or running talks.
If i may, also regarding your cielo x1 video: i'm a 115 pounds heel striker who loves the sc elite v3; between sc elite v4 and cielo x1, which do you think i should consider for a 3h30m marathon?
Thanks and keep up the good work 🤩
@Yowana, this is a great video that I have shared. Shoe selection is crazy and can get really expensive as you move through trying different brands, foams, geometries, etc. This is a great foundation for people to use thinking through their specific gait and purpose. Thanks for bringing up other brands as well!!
I appreciate it! And thanks for sharing the video 🙌🏽
I enjoyed this. I just ran my first half at 1:48. I’m a 210 lb bodybuilder motocross combo athlete lol. Good for my size I guess. I wanted to add that I seem to really blow out shoes fast. I’m in brooks now and love them but I don’t have an allegiance to them. You gave me a lot to think about and learn about. Also, in moto, after a 10,000 dollar bike, if you want the pro level equipment you’ll need another 9-12,000 for suspension alone. Runners: be grateful.
Truer words have never been spoken 👍🏽
Great video! Nice to see some fellow heavier runners commenting… 6’1 and 210 lbs here.
Would love to hear your thoughts on heel drop. Any shoe I have tried that is less than 8mm drop ups my effort level and slows my pace.
I know a lower drop is supposed to be easier on the knees and hips and puts more work on your calves.
I’ve read most of the training books that you mentioned and they’re great… 26 Marathons isn’t a training book but it has some surprisingly useful training info and is entertaining, inspiring, and a quick read/listen
This video was so essential for me!Especially since I also just bought the SC Elite V4. You nailed it Yowana! Thank you for the insight ❤
thanks riley! btw, let me know if you have thoughts on what stability shoes i should test this year. i've been thinking about the vongo and maybe the guide 17 - let me know if there are others you're interested in
Every runner should watch this video!
One thing to remember is that your running mechanics can change depending on the shoe you wear. I just watched Rory Linkletter’s video on the Seville Marathon, and he did some testing with Puma. He saw that his stride length increase when using Puma’s Fast-R 2 to the point where he would take 500 fewer steps over the course of a full marathon. Super interesting.
Its easy to measure with a garmin watch. The higher the stack, the longer my strides. Whenever I try a low stack shoe, I tend to go for faster cadence instead. The reason is that the higher the stack, the more shock absorption i get so the easier it is to "jump" far and high without getting hurt.
I totally agree! Im a healthy guy, 5'7 and 177lbs. As some one who engages in lifting weights and running for my jobs physical fitness test ill never be a small dude. I had the same debate with my self for the Vaporfly 3 and the Adios Pro 3. Wend Adios Pro 3 for the stability and comfort over time.
Excellent! Thank you. My Over 55 Marathon PB (2:58) and Half were both in Newton Distance Elites - 2.0 mm drop and minimal cushioning, no plate. As a “Born to Run” training camp alumnus, I can barely run at all in an AlphaFly.
Thanks so much for this video. What really made sense to me is how what shoe is going work for someone is going to depend a lot on running mechanics and then also factors like weight.
I am a bit addicted to running shoe videos on YT right now. It will pass but it is my current obsession. Why your video was so much better was the fact that you have an open mind and realize what is best for you might not be best for me. Then you explained why.
There are real world consequences. I have a pair of NB SC Elite 4s on hold. I was going to cancel and switch to a pair of Nike Alphaflys. I ran a bit in both in the store and the NB Elites did feel better to me. But then watching the videos and was "talked" into instead going with the Nike AF.
But I am a heel striker and everything I have tried has not changed that fact. I am also now pretty old and come to terms it is not changing. I can clearly see, because of your video, why the NB Elite is going to be a better option.
I had no idea Tyr had anything other than swimming gear! Good to know.
That slick flip at 7:43 was 🔥
I am a midfoot striker most of the time but my current racing shoe is metaspeed sky+ that has negative drop feel and it slows me down if I run in my usual form. Things changed when I land on forefoot where most of the foam stack is there, and surprisingly it did not hurt my shin. The downsight of this different is that I have to manually change my running style every time I put on the Sky+ in the beginning before I get used to it after 15 mins. I will definitely get a super shoe that feel natural to me once I retire my current Sky+, Endorphin pro 4 seems a good option for slow runner
Thank you so much for making this video! I’ve been saying this to myself for a very long time. I very frustratedly watch shoe reviewers never bring up this topic and they do not take into account that each person has their individual needs. Then they’ll flat out bash a shoe just cause it wasn’t their fit. Again, great discussion!!!
Great video! I’m 165-170 lb heel striker. Running Myrtle Beach Marathon next week. I actually had both of these shoes and I ended up sending the Alphafly back. I didn’t think I could make it 3-4 hours in it. SC Elite V4 felt much better!
good luck at myrtle beach!
@@supwell thanks!
How did you do?
You're a young guy but you made some really good points. Well done.
Very good points that are often overlooked in other shoe reviews channels.
So if I'm a 125 lbs midfoot striker that plan a 3:45-4:00 marathon which shoe would you recommend?
Very good video. You had me scared over that dog and then the car pulls up on you, even my dog started to growl hearing that dog bark at you. 😂 I know my 14 mile long run this weekend will be in the 3 hour range so I’m slower and heavier than most running UA-camrs. So I need a shoe that will be comfy for a 5+ hour marathon. I like you talking about heavier runners as I have 40lbs on you. Thought about doing youtube videos for heavier slower runners like myself as most you tube videos are doing 6/7/8 min mile paces. That all said have you thought about adding weight or pace to the shoe suggestion algorithm?
And what’s that discount code on the TYR? They give 10% for putting in an email so be good if we could stack your discount plus thier email sign up one.
Really informative video! What’re your thoughts on the ASICS Superblast?
First video of yours I’ve watched and you make some excellent points. As a fairly casual but competitive runner (mostly 5-10k races) with plans on eventually committing to a half and a full marathon in the next few years I can relate with shoes being very personal. I’m 6ft 175-180lbs and in good shape, I’m also a heel/back mid-foot striker. I’ve recently been trying out a lot of shoes particularly plated options. I currently run in the Hoka Mach 5, and just got the Mizuno wave rebellion flash 2 to try out. I was super skeptical at first, but this is hands down one of the best shoes I’ve tried for speedwork, intervals and I’d assume would do very well at 10k to half marathon distances. I thought that due to the lack of foam under the heel that there no way they would work but it actually helps me strike more on the mid foot which gives a very satisfying spring to my step. I almost beat my 5k PR (24:30) at around 75-80% effort without realizing. The glass fiber plate makes a big difference but it doesn’t feel as rigid and unforgiving as the magic speed or some other plated shoes I’ve tried. I’d highly recommend the mizuno wave rebellion flash 2 to all my heel strikers out there lol
The wave rebellion flash 2 is a fun shoe! I'm also a heel striker and enjoyed it - I'm looking forward to getting some more miles in it after my next race
Great review. Loved the science of it. I am 120 lbs runner. My Marathon PB is 3:37. So which super shoe would you recommend? I am 48 years old.
Great video! I appreciate your approach and thoughts on this topic. I will keep all of this in mind as I work towards finding my marathon shoe. Thank you for making this video! Very insightful!
I suggest you support black and brown businesses as they were hit the hardest during the recession.
Great channel!
Which Lydiard books would you recommend? Especially about running form?
Im looking forward to see what the masses think about the puma 3 when it comes out soon. I want a pair of the deviate 2 but you cant find them on sale hardly ever now, might have waited too long
All good points and great that you addressed this. I am a senior runner, heel striker as well, and so my marathon time is over 4:30 (as is my BQ time) and I just ran a marathon this weekend in the NB SC Elite v.4. They were perfect for me. Lightweight, cushioned and most definitely improved my pace. Never once thought about my feet. I actually prefer carbon-plated (NB) shoes to run races and long runs in. I've been running long enough to know that the Alphafly, although super popular, is just not a shoe that would work for me. BTW, Emily Sisson helped NB with the design of the SC Elite and wore the next version of the SC Pacer at the Olympic Trials. I can't imaging wearing a 5k-10k race shoe in a marathon, but then I don't run 2 hour and change marathons.
amazing congrats on the race this weekend - and thank you for sharing that the sc elite v4 worked for you!
Great video on a timely topic!
What I think is missed about the sc elite v4 is how flexible the carbon plate is. I think that the flexible plate plus a gradual rocker plus a stable heel plus a relatively soft foam makes it feel like an ideal but very costly daily trainer and long run shoe. For example, the adios pro 3 has way stiffer carbon, a firmer foam, and a less gradual rocker. That shoe feels faster to me, but harder on my calf muscles for long efforts.
Thanks for the info it was well said
I run frequently with my two dogs, always on leash. It’s amazing how many loose dogs there are and they approach aggressively barking like that dog did. My dogs get protective immediately when that happens and I try to choose routes where there are lower chances of encountering other dogs. When I see other people I always go wide of them to make them feel comfortable.
I’m 5’8” and 195 lbs. Having run 3 HM and 1 Marathon, still trying to find the perfect shoe for 5 hours on the course as a heel striker. Max cushion are nice but heavy and ran marathon in SuperBlast but would like to try carbon plate someday.
if you've raced in the adios pro 3 and find it comfortable i would go with that! a good way to test is to use it for your longest training runs and see how it feels toward the end
it's legal to have dogs off leash in your area ? here it's forbidden (but I still do it)
I’m not too experienced with road shoes due to me being a track runner but if you are looking for carbon plates I would either look at the ASICS metaspeed line or the puma deviate nitro line. I have teammates who love the meta speed line and I’ve heard amazing things about it as a carbon shoe. Lastly the Saucony endorphin pro line would also be a good option. Many of my teammates really like their endorphin pros.
Great review (coming from someone with no interest in either shoe given my current level of fitness and goals). Makes me curious to see what shoes Nick Bare competes in; he's a heavier runner but still fast af.
Thank you! I know he's raced in the Saucony Endorphin Elite in the past and the Vaporfly 2 before the Saucony came out
I've been lunged at, charged and chased by dogs while running. I now carry a pepper spray and stone when running outside. I love dogs, but I can't stand many of the owners. They act with such entitlement: Yes, you say your dog is friendly. But I'm not interested in finding out if today is the day your dog decides to be triggered. 🤨
Agree - and you have seconds to make a decision while considering a multitude of factors.
Is it right to attack a dog in that case? Asking as a fellow runner that gets chased by dogs everyday on my runs.
Dude, I've been chased too and bitten once, and had to take five rabies shots, it sucks!
Best of luck to you.
I think about that all the time, I often run at a park where dog owners gather and some of them (dogs and peoplealike) are not too polite. I obviously don't want to hurt any dog at all, but I don't want to get bitten either. I've been chased like three times and bitten once so far, but I'm afraid I'm going to lose my temper soon, @@marcosperez3151. It's a shitty situation, that's for sure.
@@marcosperez3151 Did I say I "attack" dogs? No, I practice self-defense. There are countless dog attack stories on news that result in injury and even death (children/elderly are most vulnerable). I don't want to be next. If I get "chased by dogs everyday on my runs", I would first change the route or timing of my runs to minimize the encounters. I would only resort of physical defense if I can't leave the dog safely. Unless you are Usain Bolt, you're not going to outrun many dogs... good luck
Great video as always. For a 33m, 1,65m and 65kg runner who is doing his first marathon and aiming for 4 hours (hm PR 1:53), and land mostly on his heels, what would you recommend between AP3, AB12, ES3, AB12, SB. I do my races in AP3 and feel great but is the full too long?
i would go with the adios pro 3 if it's worked for you before! a good way to test if it'll be comfortable for the full marathon is to take it on your longest training runs and see how it does
I’m a taller runner who specializes on the track(6’5 175 pounds) in the mile but can go down to the 800 if needed. I found that in terms of spikes even though the Nike air zoom victory was the more 800/mile centered spikes I found that the dragonflies work better for me in every way. I think I sink too much into the air pockets because I tend to stomp when I run. I also know people who love the victories and everything to do with them. Different shoes work for different people and it’s important to find what works best for you and now do what others say is best.
Great video. I agree mostly. As you said there are a bunch of different factors at play and boiling it down to just pace or foot strike misses the weight and mechanics factors. I personally think pace and weight are probably the most important. I don't really get why people are upset when a shoe company markets their shoes for a particular pace, they're trying to just be helpful in describing who they had in mind when designing the shoe. Of course we can be upset at them pricing a shoe without all the tech of a super shoe in the super shoe price range... Haha
I know, I don't get that either. I mean, there are literally hundreds of models out there, why can't some be niched, or super expensive, or super cheap, or super tall, or super minimalistic, or whatever
We all like shoe nerdery or else we wouldn't be here watching this, but sometimes I feel like this whole running shoe movement has incorporated some religious undertones in the past few years, and some people may get offended easily when they find out that a given or model has not been designed and manufactured precisely according to their specifications, whether they are technical or economic, or whatever.
I have a large collection of running books. My favorite three books are: The Van Aaken Method and the Self-Coached Runner I and Self Coached Runner II. Ernst Van Aaken and Allan Lawrence.
Spot on. At 88kg Im a heavy runner. Ran several halfs in Vaporfly snd they felt great. Used them in Marathon and they actually killed my feet on the final kilometers. Will pick a less aggressive carbon shoe for my next full marathon.
I’ve considered weight but I never thought of it in depth like you broke it down. I never considered myself heavy coming from about 205 muscular build heavy lifting down to 170 slim runner build now. I would’ve never guessed I’m on the heavy side but yeah I guess so compared to elite hahaha.
Also you make me wanna consider the NB shoes but do you worry about the drop only being 4mm. I stress so much about my Achilles. It’s giving me issues several times when goofing around with lower drop shoes or definitely 0 drop like altra. But that being said, I also don’t care for 10mm. Reason why I was looking at the hoka or alpha fly. Chasing 2:55 marathon. 185 cadence. 170 lbs. kinda heel drop but I definitely think it flattens out at race pace though. I don’t know
Are you Eritrean? I love your reviews. I’m a big New Balance Fuelcell lover for me runs. The 1st super comp trainer is my absolute fav. Debating getting the elite
Thanks! And no but I'm half Ugandan 🙌🏽 btw sc elite v4 is a lot firmer than the sc trainer since they switched the foam. so may not be your favorite if you like that sc trainer v1 feel - some other racers closer to that would be Diadora soft which is nice and soft but has a great pop and feels fast. And the endorphin pro 4 which is also softer like that sc trainer v1 but has some more bounce to it
@@supwell Thank you so much! I will look into those, appreciate you taking the time to tell me the suggestions. Thanks again ! God Bless
Thank you man ❤🔥🔥🔥🔥
Enjoyed the video and discussion..one thing I would add is age..at 69 my feet/knees/hips and back are not the same as people 40 or younger..though I routinely beat 70% of them in races,I have different wants/needs out of my shoes..at 3:40 pace I am out there longer so comfortable,cooler,as well as cushioning that doesn't go flat are top of the list..as a forefoot striker with high arches a vaporfly is pretty much useless and the alphafly is the only nike that works for me.. the last couple of years shoes are finally catching up with the reality of where most runners are at..pretty sure the vast majority of runners at races I go to aren't following you-tubers..it's why brooks and others sell so many bricks like the 880 that is beating up your feet..it's refreshing to see that you realize that most runners are 3-5mi/day and 5k runners..great job and hopefully you can stay grounded and don't get caught up in the whole manufacturers funded trips and race trips thing and can stick to what you are doing..🎉🎉
age is a great addition - thanks for adding that. also i really appreciate the thoughtful comment. the plan is to keep going and always serve the runner 💪🏽
As a heal striker, I've chosen the Diadora Gara carbon as my long distance race day shoe. Can you compare this one to the other super shoes please?
Like you, the Adidas Boston 12 are a perfect fit por me. Do you think they work as a marathon shoe? Will run my first marathon in a few months and I'm very confortable with the Boston's
I’m heavily interested in getting the Alphafly 3’s not because of the hype but I actually had the 2’s and got on really well with them and still use them for certain runs and they still feel incredible. I would say I’m a mid to ball of the foot runner and weigh just under 160 lbs but I’ve never had a problem with the 2’s.
I would go further and put up a conparison of the whole spectrum. This would be shoes that each had a full review. I can't always keep straight the drop and weight of the TYR vs. NB for example.
This idea isn't limited to the top marathon racers. There could be the near-max trainers. Triumph vs. 1080 vs. Clifton, etc.
At 200-180 pounds I am still too heavy for Nike alphaflies. It always gave me backaches, ankle pain and glute cramps, but 40 seconds to a minute faster per mile 😂. It’s like a pledge with a devil 😈
Foot size is another factor in shoe selection. I think the Alpha Fly might be too heavy for E K as compared to some other super shoes if he had size 13 shoes like me.
I ran 10mi in my sc elite v4s last sunday. At 205 they really did well, alot of pop but really did better as i went faster. They do feel like they change my gait slightly, loading my calf and Achilles more than other low drop shoes. I really want to get at least one more long run in them before my half in march. If anything to get used to the load.
I started running at 210 lbs, 6'0. Ran 160k calories worth about in a year. Ended up at.... 210 lbs lol. I just really like food.
Thanks for another thoughtful video. I wonder whether shoe companies are doing a disservice to runners by selling novice or intermediate runners gear that is not necessary and probably not helpful for their uses. I've seen beginner runners doing all their runs in a Nike Vapourfly. Which cannot be comfortable (or effective) and I imagine by the use they put it through, the carbon plate would lose its punch anyway.
I PRd a half marathon in the Saucony Speed 3, which a lot of people said was not that fast a shoe, but I found the foam/soft plate worked well for me, and I managed to come in comfortably under 90 minutes. I've never worn a "race day shoe" and tried some out for the first time yesterday in a store. I have splaying toes, and high/rigid arches. I like shoes with some Cush and extra width. None of the major brands offers their race day line in wider fit except New Balance. I tried the SC Elite on in the store and felt like I was in high heels. The Saucony Pro 4 felt amazing underfoot- pillowy and responsive, but my toes were definitely scrunched (maybe I could get away with it in a racer, but I worry). I wish Saucony made those shoes for wider footed runners.
thanks again for the informative video.
@supwell I wonder whether I'd need to change my mechanics for future efforts at the marathon. I tend to strike closer to the forefoot, just by the ball of the foot. I have high/rigid arches and have always ran that way. I think it's hard for me to go further back because my foot is a bit like the Alphafly: quite a bit up front, not as much in the middle.
i used the speed 3 for a 10k once - for me a little soft but a fun race shoe for sure! glad to hear you've found a good option that works for your mechanics. i wish that saucony uppers had a better fit as well - i've gotten some serious irritation in those shoes
and in terms of changing your mechanics, my general thought is that if you are getting faster/progressing without getting injured or having pain, there's no need to change your mechanics. the shoes should fit the running and there are def race shoes that will work for your forefoot strike for the marathon. alphafly could be one at your pace - if you don't like the tall stack of the sc elite then maybe the upcoming new balance sc pacer v2 could be a good choice as well
Ive watched your video (I watch most of your videos as you're a great reviewer, very clear and informative) but I'm still confused whether a marathoner aiming for 4:30hr would benefit from the SC Elite v4 which is the shoe I've found most comfortable on try on. I've tried the SC Trainer v2 on 2 runs (from watching your vids) and love it but they really hurt the tops of my feet from the lacing system so I can't wear them anymore :( Those running slower (and not neceserily heavier just not the quickest) need the help with leg fatigue and all the nice cushion and bounce they can get as they're out there for longer no? Does this mean we just need a cushioned shoe and not plated? I need the bounce! lol I love the speed 3 - but it does feel flat on runs longer than 30k (3hrs for me) I'm stuck and my delivery driver is fed up keep bringing me shoes to try!!! lol
Yeah the plated shoes can help reduce leg fatigue and give more cushion/bounce to everyone regardless of pace - it's about finding the one that works for your mechanics and is comfortable enough at that 3.5 hour mark still. Have you tried switching the laces on the SC trainer v2 yet? I would look into lock laces or a replacement pair from Amazon/your local runnign store that has a little more stretch and padding. If you like the ride of them that would be the easiest (and cheapest!) solution. I do think the sc elite v4 could be a good option for a 4 hour marathon as well. It's much firmer feeling than the sc trainer v2 at my everyday training paces, so it'll depend on whether you like that feeling
Hi thanks so much for your reply. With the SCTv2 foot issue, its the bit inside the shoe that holds the laces rather than the laces themselves, its hard and bunches up and has hurt the little foot bone before my big toe joint - not sure I want to be adding blister plasters or some sort of padded protection and go into the marathon knowing I might end up hobbling with foot pain - am I over thinking it way too much?? It's my first road marathon and I want it to go ok!
Bro love your cap..🙂 where you get it? Thanks
Love the video too. 👍
Thank you! And I made them 🙌🏽 here's the link www.supwell.io/product/hobby-jogger-trucker-hat
A few minutes ago I purchased a the Fresh Foam 1080 V13 because of your review and because you love him so much 🙏🔥😍 And I get a really shoe bargain 💪 Normally the price is 190 euros here when I go online but I founded for like 115 euro 🫡 That‘s a banger I can’t let go past me and I went with the red color way 🙏 For me I connect this color with fire and activity 🙌 On monday next week I will be at a new physio to look after some body things of mine and yeah 😍 I‘m patient right now and I will return to running pretty soon. I‘m sure about it 🙏 For me running is the reason why I was born into that world in that time 🙌 I understood that quite a few months ago 😃 It was like an enlightenment to me 😍🔥💪 Thank you really much for your recommendation 👍 and I saved like 75 euros 🔥
that's a great deal! i hope you love them - it's a great shoe to use when easing back into running
I’m a 3:20ish marathoner, female, narrow feet, 130lbs at 5’9, mid foot to forefoot leaning mid foot striker.
Even though i‘m not a sub3 marathoner, the alphaflys, to this day, provided me the right balance between responsiveness and stability while fitting my feet perfectly.
finally someone that review shoes from the reg. joe point of view - subscribe
I completely agree with the most important point on choosing a shoes: biomechanic, weight and pace. I bought so many shoes that are nice but not for one of this reason ... I'm a 180 pound guy, projecting to run a 3h20 first marathon, heel striker. DO you have a shoes advice for me ? i project wearing boston 12 or saucony tempus at the moment. Thank you
I was around the same size and time as you for my 2022 marathon and enjoyed the Saucony endorphin pro 3. It's a little lighter and bouncier than the Boston - you could also use the Boston if you've found it comfortable during training. I love my Boston 12s and have taken them 2.5+ hours so I could totally see them being awesome for the marathon
@@supwell thank you for the advice ! I will check the pro
If I was going to buy new racing shoes today, it would probably be the New Balance Elite v4. Not just because it is beautiful, but it might work better for my low length stride ( but high cadence) and overpronation issues. Other shoes are either super narrow in the middle foot ,unstable, or don't have enough rubber coverage in the heel area.
I bet that this Elite v4 is more stable them my Magic Speed 3 ... it is hard to keep the high speed when we lose energy overpronating a lot with every step. Anyways, the Magic Speed 3 is awesome for me up to 10km and perfect for 5km for me.
This was a really good discussion, but I would LOVE if you went even further and talked about non-plated options for those of us who are 4.5 - 5+ hour marathoners. For me I’m training for my first marathon in May and I am really struggling with what to do those really long runs in that I can ALSO do the race in. As a heel-striker with a 9-9:30/mi pace, I’m not sure plated shoes are going to help me.
On top of that, after watching so many reviews on the Boston 12 and Deviate Nitro 2, I’m totally confused as to what would be best for me.
Currently running in Saucony Ride 16, Rebel v3, and Boston 12 (which leaves my legs feeling beat up).
Perhaps a shoe option discussion specific to 4-5 hour beginner marathoners? I have yet to find anyone talking about this... It’s either daily trainers, tempo shoes, or plated marathon shoes, but nothing really about marathon recommendations for slower (9-10/mi) runners.
Boston 12 wouldn't be my first choice at those paces - have you looked into the sc trainer v2 at all? It's a nice plated option that's a lot more forgiving than other plated training shoes but still has the snap when you want to run fast. I have a bunch of videos on it - on my phone now but can drop some here later. In terms of non plated, Superblast is one that keeps coming up that I will be testing soon. And Saucony Triumph is a really nice non-plated max cushion shoe that has enough bounce for longer runs and speedwork
dropping some resources for you :
sctrainer v2 vs boston 12 review i did: ua-cam.com/video/0eY73qo75xc/v-deo.htmlsi=tcCgk5m8EC2oPLsE
link to saucony triumph 20 on sale for $64: www.marshalls.com/us/store/jump/product/shoes-shoes-men-s-shoes-sneakers/Men%27s-Triumph-20-Cushioned-Running-Sneakers/4000214449?colorId=NS4155763&pos=1:13&N=2622436488 i highly recommend this shoe - give it a shot for your long runs and you may end up racing in it. i put 350+ miles on my pair and used them for all my long runs last winter
@@supwellThanks, I’ll look more into the SCT v2 and the Triumph. Do you think the Deviate Nitro 2 is suitable for a pace like mine or is that better for faster runners?
@@CriticalThinker02deviate nitro 2 would probably be a better shoe than the Boston 12 for you - it's soft and bouncier and doesn't require fast running to feel fun. I've beeen runnign in it a lot recently at all of my paces and it feels good for everything. It does have a reallly narrow fit though so that is something to watch out for. And it doesn't feel as cushioned as a lot of other plated trainers so I wouldn't use it for the marathon itself - i'd probably max out around 2 hours in the deviate nitro 2 while I could go 3+ in the sc trainer v2
Hello. I have a question and I would like to know your opinion. Now I'm preparing for a half marathon in my city, and according to my forecasts I plan to run it in 1:50 1:40. And now I'm starting to think about buying faster shoes with a plate. Carbon or not, it doesn't matter... my pace will vary from 5 min/km to 4:30 min/km. and my weight is always stable at 65kg/145lbs. My running mechanics are a light heel strike, closer to the midfoot, similar to what you showed in the video. I have slight problems with pronation, so neutral shoes with some support are welcome. Based on my parameters, which foam model would suit me best? or if you have any advice for me, could you recommend something for me. thanks, have a nice day.
thanks for the question! with those specs, a lot of the mainstream racing shoes should work well for you over the half marathon distance. the main one i'd suggest is the saucony endorphin pro 3 - it has a fun and fast rolling feel and bouncy foam. if saucony isn't available in your country the new balance sc elite v4 would be a good choice - it's a little firmer than the pro 3 but will feel bouncy at your half marathon pace. plus it's very stable
I am a heel striker and slow runner but the Mizuno Wave Rebellion Pro V1 is amazing for me.. Until I get tired.. How is the Mizuno Wave Rebellion Pro V2? Basically my point is that having NO heel moves me to land more forward ❤.
This is the video I needed to see..
Do you ever worry about the effects heal striking has on your body? Especially knees/meniscus injuries.. is that something youve considered? How long have you been running long distances?
Another awesome video!!
Any tips for a good race day shoe for someone like me who is 230 lbs 11-12 min/mile pace & wide foot *measured on the boarder of medium and 2e. Mid foot strike?
The TYR Valkyrie Elite Carbon or New Balance SC Elite v4 would be my top plated picks. Both are supportive but the new balance has a bit of a firmer cushion and less aggressive rocker. Might be a better option for longer races where you want more foam, while the TYR feels lighter on foot, softer and faster - so would be better for shorter races (half and below). Another good non plated option that I'll be testing soon is the Asics superblast - I haven't run in it yet but I know a lot of runners with similar specs to you who love it for racing and everyday running
@@supwell thoughts on the SC trainer v2 for my specs?
i love that shoe. depends on the distance - i think for the half you will like it but for a full it may get a little soft. but it's a great long run shoe either way so i think you would get a ton of use out of it if you picked it up@@nat2theoli
If the lighter runners who these shoes are designed for need to put X amount of force through the shoe to 'activate' the foams, and they do that by going fast, surely us slower and heavier runners will activate the foams at slower paces simply because we weigh more and are therefore putting the same forces through the shoes just at a slower pace?
Correct. Buy Stryd
It shows the energy.
Would be wonderful if you can compare 2 pace-based shoes : S/Lab Spectur and Asics S4. Although S4 might be a little difficult to grab due to Japanese Domestic Market only
Will definitely be testing the S/Lab Spectur once it's out - and I've been trying to track down an S4 but no luck yet. Let me know if you've got a plug 😂
I live in a rural area outside of Austin and have to contend with loose dogs in the street every single time. I carry a combo of an ultrasonic dog deterrent device with a training button and warning button, and Jogger Fogger mace. The device works pretty well, though I still have to interrupt my run and stop when dogs are being extra aggressive until I know they won't charge as I walk past zapping the warning button that hurts their ears. Haven't had to spray mace yet.
I'm currently using the Puma Deviate Nitro cuz the price was right, and they're not ADIDAS, who are currently trying to get CA to allow them to sell slaughtered kangaroo soccer shoes. Too bad, I wore Supernova then Ultraboost for years successfully.
Do you have the link for those anti stray dogs device you got? Thank you very much!
@@ronaldosanpablo6761 Links are often deleted in comments but there are many options. Mine was the DOG CARE Barking Control Devices - Rechargeable 2-in-1 Ultrasonic Anti Barking Device Dog Training Tool from Amzn.
I would be interested to hear your thoughts on runners weight vs force exerted on a carbon plate and benefit received. My thinking is that heavier ( above 150 lbs 😊) runners would still benefit from a carbon plate because they would still exert force on a CF plate? As well as in a shoe like the Cielo X1 receive a stability benefit as well. Well, that's what i tell myself anyways lol. I raced sub 4 last year in the Endorphin Pro 3 at 185lbs and really enjoyed that shoe.
yeah definitely - more force whether weight or speed helps activate the plate. the study i mentioned (linked in the description if you are a nerd like me lol) showed that because of this, plated shoes like the vaporfly help recreational runners go faster. so as long as the plated shoe is comfortable, you'll get benefit using it for the marathon. pro 3 is a great choice for that - i raced my 2022 marathon in them and love it for both comfort and speed
I just got 3 different plated shoes delivered to me. I’m 6’4”/250 (prior military, just a natural large dude) and really wanted to see if my weight would play a big part in activating the plates. I got 2 CF plated and 1 Nylon plated. Hopefully it goes well!
Genuine question: Are people really that triggered about mentioning weight? If so, how, why, and to what extent? Yowana seemed to go out of his way to not offend any one when approaching the topic. Sure, we don't need to mock overweight people, I'm one myself (and short too), but do we need to be hyper sensitive?
If you've spent weeks eating nothing but iceburg lettuce and dry cheerios in an effort to lose fat when you are already 8% body fat and all you can be is disgusted with how 'overweight' you are...then yes, mentioning that the best runners tend to be the lightest is all it takes to trigger a relapse. Thank you, Yowana, for recognizing that.
Let’s not forget that all people have different running mechanics. Some people don’t see much, if any benefit from supershoes, well, some people or what they call superresponders. It all depends on your biomechanics. Clayton Young is a great example of a superresponder, although the new Asics shoe is testing crazy well in the lab as well.
so helpful
Great content 👍! I’m 200+ lbs and certainly need something much different than an Alpha 😳.