Lettuce knew that Robert Dudley was Elizabeth s greatest and only love and that they were lovers secretly for many years Robert was the queens common law husband in a way and she should have respected that I know Elizabeth was a difficult person but Leicester in a way was her turf they were family that should count I think .Lettice for me was fir me a little snake
From her birth And all through her life was under constant threat of death because of her position. It isn't at all surprising that she developed the personality and character that she had. Whatever, she was a Brave and Courageous woman in a world of men.
Robert Dudley did the same towards her. He was upset that she was considering marrying the Duke of Anjou even though he himself was married to Lettice.
Yes, I think Lettice got the short straw. I understand Elizabeth not wanting to marry, but I think this feud with Lettice is a classic case of, 'If I can't have him, nobody else can...'
Exactly. It also didn’t help that Lettice was her cousin, and rumors say that Lettice was the image of Elizabeth, only “prettier”. I think Elizabeth was jealous- pure and simple.
@@Natalie_11188 given the fact Catherine Carey was born during the affair of Mary Boleyn and Henry VIII, it seems more likely they are half-aunt/half-niece. Too odd for 1st cousins once removed to look that alike.
Elizabeth was also known for her short temper. I can see where she would have had quite a vindictive additive towards Lettice marrying her beloved Dudley when she, the queen of England, couldn’t.
I've read the novel My Enemy the Queen by Victoria Holt countless times so I've always been intrigued by Lettice. I find her fascinating. I believe Leicester really loved her but was 'scared' of Elizabeth. And to live till 91 in those days was just amazing!
I love that book!! It's maybe not the best writing, but the bits that are bad are legit funny, & it's such fun & engaging reading- & to my surprise it's remarkably accurate, & since you learn much better from stories, it's like I got lots of Elizabethan history for free. In contrast to Philippa Gregory- she may be a better writer, but her books make it _harder_ to learn history imo, cos her fake narrative's stuck in your head, & it's hard to even work out which bits are invention, much less change the story in your head. I find Lettice fascinating too, & I think Leicester loved her, but loved Elizabeth as well.
It was the novel My Enemy The Queen, that really got me into history. That is, history in terms of real people, true human individuals, not just lofty, inaccessible rulers, nations, and ideologies. For that alone I'll always have a soft spot for Lettice. I'm glad this video showed that she had dimensions. Long before Dudley, she was (unfortunately for her) a younger, prettier version of Elizabeth (its said they were as alike as sisters in appearance). And as Elizabeth's youth was one of such instability, followed by such heavy responsibilities (and restrictions) being pressed upon, that I think she envied Lettice's comparatively simple life. The Queen was so horribly jealous, of her, that while she was one of her ladies-in-waiting, her majesty, was known to often yell/curse at her, to slap, and to pinch her (till it brought the blood) whenever her temper flared. After her marriage to Leicester she had to deal not only with the Queens moods, and the gossip about her husband and Elizabeth...but also the specter of Amy Dudley's unresolved death. On top of all that to lose a child so young. In later years her son Essex's escapades must have kept her on edge. And her daughter didn't seem to make things any easier. This video did a good job of humanizing her, after history has too long dismissed her as the archetypal, self-serving 'she-wolf.' As so beautifully stated here, she was more than a marriage.
Leicester also loved Elizabeth. His feelings didn’t ever go away for her. As we can see by his letters and him spending more time with her than Lettice.
Poor Lettice. No parent should bury their child. To outlive all your children is unfathomable! I have 3 kids and can't even (and don't want to) imagine the sorrow she must have felt. She definitely deserves better representation from history. Thanks for sharing!💖💖
Oh, this should be VERY interesting! I have always felt that Lettice Knollys is a tragic figure. If anyone was a “she-wolf”, it was Elizabeth I - truly her father’s daughter.
So Elizabeth feeling the very emotion of jealousy and being petty, spiteful about it towards the woman who she perceived as a rival for the affection of the ONE man she may have truly loved but was never able to marry for reasons of state and the hateful slander perpetuated on her and their relationship makes her the equal of a wife murdering, lecherous sociopath? Seriously? Even a saint would have been bitter/angry in this situation. Was it "fair" of her to blame Lettice for it all? Of course not. But Elizabeth was as human and fallible as all of us. You saying that that's on par with executing spouses, friends, ministers and robbing/plundering/destroying the monasteries and its priceless art, books etc. makes me side eye y...you know what? No. You saying that is sexism, plain and simple.
@@elisabetta611 Elizabeth was a controlling narcissist. Her gender doesn’t excuse her horrid behavior towards her obsession’s wife. She was possessive and power mad.
Obviously, the term "sour grapes" doesn't apply when you're the queen. (Apparently, spin doctors were alive and well even back then - if not well before). Anyway, thanks Dr. Kat for another fascinating trip through Tudor history. Now go and enjoy a well-deserved weekend with Jamie and little Gabriel. 👍❤
I’ve always had a soft spot for Lettice after reading an historical novel about her when I was a teenager. I can’t remember the author, but I think she did a fair job of portraying a genuine love story between Lettice and Dudley and the difficulties they had because of Elizabeth. Personally, while I admire the young Elizabeth and her early years as Queen, I think she became difficult, demanding and over-bearing as an older woman. I feel that her paranoia was probably fed by Cecil. Lettice is one of my favourite historical women. I think she was unfairly criticised and judged, dealt a lot of hard knocks in life, and yet still lived as a strong woman doing the best she could. Brava Lettice.
@@nancydellinger303 That was it! Thank you. I couldn't remember the author or title of the book. Should have known it was Victoria Holt. I think I read everything she wrote when I was a teenager.
I've bought 'My Enemy the Queen' and look forward to reading! I admire Lettice so much. She surely was proud and sometimes very vain but that's how ut turns out when at the centre of attention at court. With no doubt she knew full well how to use her beauty but she never 'meant' to take Robert away from Elizabeth. She fell in love with him and he with her. He never stopped loving Elizabeth but they couldn't marry
And why not? if he truly loved her he could have been her lifetime companion but instead in her eyes betrayed her by marrying someone else who was younger and supposed to be a prettier version of Elizabeth which was seen by her as extreme betrayal
@@lynnedelacy2841 He did stay her loyal friend and companion for all of his life! But this man also had desires- after Elizabeth had finally made clear she would never marry he had to move on. Try to imagine how he felt. Had he stayed Elizabeth' lover knowing she would never take him wholly his heart would have broken. He needed to ease his conscience and thus decided to settle down with Lettice whom he was affected to and could marry.
Thanks for presenting Lettice's side. I think Rbt Dudley had hung around dancing on Elizabeth for a long time, he wanted a wife and heir. Although if he didn't care for Lettice, he would have chosen a younger woman, with a longer childbearing time available. He knew whoever he married, Elizabeth would envy and dislike, as she had with many of her gentle women. Elizabeth saw marrying privately as flouting her authority, but it was a catch 22 because she never would give consent if they had asked.
So interesting that Elizabeth is always the “wronged woman” here. I can’t help but wonder if her jealousy had more to do with lettice’s relationship to relationships. Whether or not Lettice was the granddaughter of Henry VII, or whether pr not Elizabeth believed it, Lettice was descended from the Boelyns. Her mother and grandmother lived normally with their men. Not something Elizabeth’s mother, stepmothers, aunts, or sister enjoyed. And to have it be her own beloved with whom her kinswoman could live and love had to be galling. Elizabeth couldn’t marry or become pregnant without facing enormous, irrevocable consequences-likely war. I think normal relationships enraged her.
That is a really solid insight - thank you! I had not thought about it that way but I think you are onto something very intriguing, and likely also very true.
Elizabeth sacrificed a great deal to be a reigning Queen, in her own right, rather than be relegated to royal broodmare. Saint, she was not, but neither am I, so I can imagine being violently jealous of Lettice. Seriously, no other woman would have galled Elizabeth more. If Lord Robert wanted to punish Elizabeth for not agreeing to marry him( and make him king ) he could not have chosen better. 😅
Really intresting how lettice is viewed the interloper in Elizabeth and Dudley romance, compared to Anne Bolyn. Lettice being the true wife and Elizabeth being the other woman.
Even more so Amy Robsart was his legal wife and Elizabeth the interloper. He was legally married to her before her death and he disregarded her the most.
Really enjoy how you empathize with these individuals in history. I can’t imagine how hard it was to survive and navigate those times - especially as a woman.
Looks like she was the one that history "liked to hate". It is amazing that after so much loss she lived to such an old age and in good health. It seems she sss a very strong woman, and as you know strong women are always a good villain...
Oh wow, I didn't know that Lettice was Mary Boleyn's granddaughter. That is super interesting and yeah, there is a chance she Elizabeth's niece. That adds a whole layer to an already tangled story! I was wondering if Sir Christopher Blount was any relation to Bessie Blount the mother of Henry VIII's illegitimate son?
You’ve done it again!!! A huge gap in my inadequate understanding of the Robert Dudley/Elizabeth/ Lettice situation has been filled! You again brought so much history into the light! Thank You!!!!
I love your videos!!! I'm a big history buff. Medieval times are my favorite. The supposed love story of Edward 4th and Elizabeth Woodville and their sons the Princes in the Tower. And then even before them fascinates me. I think Elinor of Aquitaine is a most fascinating woman. I would loved to have known her.
I’m so glad you’ve done this video and come to this conclusion. I have too following reading ‘the Queen’s Rival’. I think Lettice would make a good film in her own right.
It would have been a terrible political mistake for her. Not only was Dudley her subject, but also there were rumors that his first wife was killed (by him or Elizabeth's order). If you want examples what happens to a queen who marries a guy with a shady reputation for love just google Mary Stuart.
Also his family was in disgrace as supposed traitors as well. She couldn’t marry him even if she wanted to (and I do believe he was the one who tempted her the most).
@@michaelsinger4638 fair. But her choice to remain bitter and vindictive about the situation tells us a lot. Clearly they had no understanding if he ended up seeking a wife elsewhere, and she wasn't mature enough to deal with it.
@@InThisEssayIWill... yeah but who wouldnt be? Imagine being in love with someone and not being able to act on it and they get to move on but you cant for the exact reason that you couldnt pick them. Its not right but its very human and predictable. You would have to be a saint to not be bitter and at least a bit vindictive
I remember discovering Lettice when I was a teenager and started reading about Elizabeth 1. Of the two women I always thought Lettice would be the one I'd like as a friend. Elizabeth, of course, is fascinating, but Lettice seemed like a good person caught up in extraordinary circumstances.
Thank-you for this wonderful video! I have played Lettice Knollys at a Renaissance Faire since 2011, and I find her a fascinating person. So many previous actresses have played her as the villainess, and I feel it isn’t a fair portrayal of her. I try to play her as more human-perhaps a bit vain, but certainly not evil. She was far more complex than that. I think she truly loved Leicester-she had a strong relationship with Elizabeth-and marrying Her favourite was a risky move for Lettice. I’m sure she weighed the pros and cons of marrying him, and also considered whether or not Elizabeth would forgive her. History gives us the answer to this-Elizabeth tried to make Lettice’s life difficult after the marriage. And, in most cases, the winner “writes” the history. It makes me wonder how many other people who are betrayed poorly got the short straw in the history books. We often only get the one version. And as we know, there are always 3 sides to a story…yours, mine, and the truth.
I think she was very similar to her cousin/aunt Elizabeth in looks and personality. They both loved fashion, pageantry and the same man. Lettice was so much like Elizabeth that the Queen found it an affrontery to her ego.🙂
Lettice has been glossed-over in all the books I've read on Elizabeth. The only thing I have ever read is that she was a rival in beauty. Had no idea she married Dudley. Always had a deep curiosity about Lettice. Wow, what a woman!
Trying to explain (not justify), the Queen's sour attitude: Elizabeth probably felt twice betrayed when she learned - in emotionally stressful circumstances - of the marriage between Robert and Lettice: one was her long term favourite, the other was a kinswoman and probably a friend ...at least up to the news of the marriage. For many people, betrayal by a friend feels more hurtful than betrayal by a love interest.
Elizabeth & Robert Dudley are legendary. Lost love makes us wonder “ What if ?” or recall our younger years. Elizabeth would not have married Dudley because of the scandal of his first wife’s death. Amy Dudley’s mysterious death from a fall down the stairs was well investigated but never accepted as accidental. Elizabeth’s fear of intimacy or marriage was rooted in her childhood due to her father’s horrible murder of her mother, Anne Boleyn. Still baggage aside, Elizabeth and Dudley are unfirgetable.
After reading My Enemy the Queen, I have always been sympathetic for Lettice Knollys. Thanks for giving her some deserved attention and presenting her point of view.
Whoo! Thanks for introducing me to this fabulously unfathomable woman. I can see her grimly smiling, walking that mile a day, having survived everyone and everything including the rapacious Queen.
Her life story is so heartbreaking. Impossible to imagine what it must have felt like trying to carry on your life with someone you love with the pressure on you that the queen is completely unhappy with you.
not really! He married her after so many years of being rejected by Elizabeth and she was the younger image of Elizabeth, which means even marrying her in the first place was because of the actual obsession he had with Elizabeth which no woman (unless if it was someone like her) could satisfy. which means even the beginning of marriage is totally messed up version of love for someone else. even after marriage, he never stopped loving Elizabeth and even in one of his letters he said that she rules his position and heart and soul
I agree with others concerning the relationships in this video. It has always amazed me about how people male and female handled themselves with all of the palace intrigue and an ax hanging over everyone's head. What a balancing act!
This was very fascinating. To have lived into her 90s at that time is incredible. I love your presentations and always look forward to them. Thank you.
Indeed. They taxed the weak and poor mercilessly to fund their houses and entertainments. Tortured and killed their opponents yet are still kept in luxury to this day. People must love to be enslaved.
These names are so familiar to anyone who knows Donizetti’s Tudor operas (often mislabeled a trilogy, but never conceived as one). The only name missing is Mary Stuart, but she was likely involved in the plot somehow!
As always, another fascinating examination of history and legend, particularly the ongoing speculation surrounding Elizabeth I and Robert Dudley. How attached to him was she really. For wasn't it Robert Dudley that Elizabeth wanted to marry off to Mary, Queen of Scots? Was it more a matter of being upset that he chose his own path and married Lettice? And in Elizabeth's egotistical view, Lettice had to be the villain. Thank you, Dr. Kat. I learn so much from your videos.
I find the power people of certain titles back then truly amazing . It sure gives a lot of food for thought .THANKYOU for sharing all your knowledge and such wonderful chats.I have tried over the years to guess at so many puzzles and with your charm and warmth you make things so clear.
Love your channel! I love history, any type of history. I am so happy to have found you. Keep up the wonderful work. You are a genuine pleasure to listen to.
Thank you so much for the video! I had no idea Elizabeth and Lettice were related! Elizabeth was a great queen, but definitely a villain in Lettice's story. But I guess it's not great when you can't be with a person you love, so I kind of understand why the queen was so vindictive
your videos on amazing women from the past are my favourite amongst all on your channel, thank you for the wonderful work, it's fascinating to learn about Lettitia, I think that yes, Elizabeth expected Dudley to not marry at all or marry someone of her choosing (purely transactional) that he wouldn't love, like, respect or desire; she could not marry for political reasons but it doesn't mean that she wouldn't have romantic feelings or desires. I think both women were in sad position here but at least Lettitia had her man marry and support her without extra agenda which the queen could never have. It's such a thrill to look at people from the past and people now and see how much we've changed... and how little human nature really changed, How gossip, sexual affairs, romances, power games, competing over partners etc. is still the same as it was for millennia...
I think your transactional point is a great one… after all she made a show of offering him up to Mary, Queen of Scots. I wonder what she would have done if either or both of them had actually been keen on the idea?
Lettice is quite beautiful in this portrait next to Dudley's compared to many other women of this era. I always thought her a very sympatheric character and it was clear to me that Dudley loved her, and he played up to Elizabeth as any savvy courtier would in the same circumstances.
Great look at Lettice Knollys, a character I first met (as did many here) in the historical novel "My Enemy the Queen" by Victoria Holt. I enjoy your videos very much.
I don't think we should consider the mariages of high ranking noble people of the 16th century through the filter of live stories, nor the mariages that did not take place as non-love stories. People married for rank and status and fortune and land, that was perfectly legitimate, and the Queen married no one because of power and politics, also legitimate. It has little to do with who loved whom, or who slept with whom.
I have always been interested in Lettice and as a teen read "My Enemy the Queen" by Victoria Holt. Of course, this was historical fiction, but I found it fascinating. Thank you for your factual historical reading...I enjoyed it very much!
Thank you for this informative video. I had no idea who Leticce was except as the woman Dudley married and how it angered the Queen. My goodness, how complicated those relationships are!
Actually, history has nothing to do with a him. I heard this in a lecture given by Professor Gregory Nagy, so I never knew whether the meaning of history was supposed to be the sentence, "I witness," or the phrase, "eye witness." Online, the matter is complicated. The several definitions include, "inquiry," as both the act of seeking knowledge and the knowledge found. While another definition is simply, "story."
@@christopherbrown5409 It doesn't establish a divide actually. ' Herstory' aims at highlighting the importance of women in the past- since in HIStory books it is mostly told of men's achievements
Thank you Dr Kat. I like the way you deconstruct the popular myths regarding the Royal History of England. Thank you. You ar every refreshing and I enjoy your videos very much.
Very interesting video. Thank you! What a long and fascinating life she led, punctuated by so much personal loss. Looks like Robert loved both women. Surely I can’t be the only person who thought her name was pronounced ‘Lettuce ‘a la salad’ Knollis or Knollies’?!
I recently stumbled onto your channel and I absolutely love it. I am planning a trip to London in April and I wanted to listen to more history and you have really been educational. Thank you ! :-)
I find it interesting that everyone blames Lettice and even Elizabeth but never Robert? He was the one going back and forth between the two women. It's curious that women always seem to want to blame the other women but not their husband in the case of affairs! Great video! PS Before anyone comes at me, not ALL women, just some blame the other woman and not their husband. Some do blame their husbands as well as the other woman and divorce him for cheating. Just meant the majority and it's very curious to me.
Fascinating video! I'd not heard this information before, only seen the depiction of Lettice in Elizabeth R, which wasn't very flattering. Thank you so much.
Thank you for this interesting story. I’m so glad that you pointed out that it’s not pronounced like the salad vegetable. I’m blind, and that’s listen to audiobooks. There was I believe an Agatha Christie novel, that had a character who had the same name and unfortunately, the narrator pronounced it lettuce the vegetable. I did have to giggle pretty much every time she was mentioned. Thank you for your effort and for your gentleness and for your kindness in speaking to us.
I will always be a Bess/Robin "shipper" but I agree, Lettice has been demonized very much like Anne Boleyn was before her, even for similar reasons. (See, I DO believe Henry loved BOTH Katharine AND Anne!) Well done, Dr. Kat!!
Ment years ago I read the book “My Enemy the Queen” by Victoria Holt under the pen name of Jean Plaidy. This UA-cam follows much the same story. Victoria Holt wrote many historical novels. I think you and she did good research.
Call me what you will, but the more personal things I am learning about ER, the more grateful I am that I was not in her circle of "friends" and family lol she seems to be an intensely complicated person who would be frightening in her moods and her power to act on those moods...but if this channel makes anything more clear, it is that one cannot make judgment about history without risking great failures. We cannot make windows into their souls, indeed. Continue to be fascinated by your work, Dr Kat, cant wait to see who/what is up next!!
The only thing I don’t admire about the great Elizabeth I is her vanity. She was completely unforgiving to anyone who didn’t maintain the fiction that she was the only beautiful, desirable woman in the kingdom. Maybe one more thing, she did nothing for the sailors and soldiers who fought in the Armada, even the ones who were disabled. I know she claimed she was too broke, but she could have cut back on her silk gown and jewelry purchases a bit, to help at least those who could no longer work after their service for their country. She was liberal enough in making promises beforehand.
She left them to starve on the ships, refusing to let them disembark, so that she could thin down the wages bill. And now we have Covid and a certain govt thinking along the same lines! Think of the money they can recoup if all the weakest members of society drop dead
She also did not send money for food to the soldiers in the Netherlands. That she was Gloriana was sheer Tudor propaganda. Even more bloody Than Mary 1.
History is written by those of the time. And they would not have written anything against the Queen. Thus, the truth was rewritten to enhance their potential climb up the social ladder, and Lettice was the scapegoat in this particular chapter. Thanks for a very interesting video, Kat.
Elizabeth, with the marriage-social constructs of the time couldn't marry Lesister without losing power. I can understand her fury and frustration watching he cousin secure what she couldn't have but it was her choice. Lesister desired an heir. He would never have one with the Queen. Lettuce must have known that marrying the Queens favorite would leave her forever ostracized. The decisions made ensured the inevitable outcome.
You are a wonderful (hi)story teller! I find I mourn Lettice a bit even though she had a long and eventful life. She becomes a real person through your video! ❤ Thank you!
Your Chanel is so calming and interesting! Rely appreciate the historical insights. I think your story in the video demonstrates the pattern of powerful people shaping the narrative historically and today. It makes perfect sense that this would be the way things were vrsus how they are told so long after such events. Thank you for offering an insightful and nuanced alternative narrative, in this and all videos you do.
I always hit the like button before I listen because I know It will be quality and hold my attention effortlessly! Thank you for educating us! I think you are spot on with Lettice. Contrary to history books).Cheers from 🇺🇸
Wonderful! I loved this presentation! It is such fun to learn about the people who were in the heads and hearts (and, sometimes just in the bedrooms) of the Kings and Queens.
I had heard that Lettice Knollys was a younger, prettier version of Queen Elizabeth. Probably she was also more carefree due to having less responsibilities than her cousin and possible aunt.
Fascinating , thank you! I just found you and subscribed! I am looking forward to watching all your content! I am the 24x granddaughter of Eleanor du Aquitaine 💗
Elizabeth has always struck me as a "have your cake and stop anyone else from eating anything" person.
Yeah, could be she was spiteful for not being able to marry
While not eating it herself
Lettuce knew that Robert Dudley was Elizabeth s greatest and only love and that they were lovers secretly for many years Robert was the queens common law husband in a way and she should have respected that I know Elizabeth was a difficult person but Leicester in a way was her turf they were family that should count I think .Lettice for me was fir me a little snake
From her birth And all through her life was under constant threat of death because of her position. It isn't at all surprising that she developed the personality and character that she had. Whatever, she was a Brave and Courageous woman in a world of men.
Robert Dudley did the same towards her. He was upset that she was considering marrying the Duke of Anjou even though he himself was married to Lettice.
Her life was more than just a marriage❤️ is a sentence that should be in every history book on women
So true 👍
👏👏👏
Except, in the past the one you were married to defined who you were
@@farfallinaazzurra5318 Nobody is solely defined by family/spouse. People have unique personalities.
@@ribanamay3724 in our present time, yes. But we're talking half a millennium ago, here
Yes, I think Lettice got the short straw. I understand Elizabeth not wanting to marry, but I think this feud with Lettice is a classic case of, 'If I can't have him, nobody else can...'
Exactly. It also didn’t help that Lettice was her cousin, and rumors say that Lettice was the image of Elizabeth, only “prettier”. I think Elizabeth was jealous- pure and simple.
And why not ? With all the power that Elizabeth had she still couldn’t marry the man she loved
@@Natalie_11188 given the fact Catherine Carey was born during the affair of Mary Boleyn and Henry VIII, it seems more likely they are half-aunt/half-niece. Too odd for 1st cousins once removed to look that alike.
@@jamiemohan2049 I agree. I think it’s very likely they were related on both sides.
Elizabeth was also known for her short temper. I can see where she would have had quite a vindictive additive towards Lettice marrying her beloved Dudley when she, the queen of England, couldn’t.
I've read the novel My Enemy the Queen by Victoria Holt countless times so I've always been intrigued by Lettice. I find her fascinating. I believe Leicester really loved her but was 'scared' of Elizabeth. And to live till 91 in those days was just amazing!
I love that book!! It's maybe not the best writing, but the bits that are bad are legit funny, & it's such fun & engaging reading- & to my surprise it's remarkably accurate, & since you learn much better from stories, it's like I got lots of Elizabethan history for free. In contrast to Philippa Gregory- she may be a better writer, but her books make it _harder_ to learn history imo, cos her fake narrative's stuck in your head, & it's hard to even work out which bits are invention, much less change the story in your head.
I find Lettice fascinating too, & I think Leicester loved her, but loved Elizabeth as well.
It was the novel My Enemy The Queen, that really got me into history. That is, history in terms of real people, true human individuals, not just lofty, inaccessible rulers, nations, and ideologies. For that alone I'll always have a soft spot for Lettice.
I'm glad this video showed that she had dimensions. Long before Dudley, she was (unfortunately for her) a younger, prettier version of Elizabeth (its said they were as alike as sisters in appearance). And as Elizabeth's youth was one of such instability, followed by such heavy responsibilities (and restrictions) being pressed upon, that I think she envied Lettice's comparatively simple life. The Queen was so horribly jealous, of her, that while she was one of her ladies-in-waiting, her majesty, was known to often yell/curse at her, to slap, and to pinch her (till it brought the blood) whenever her temper flared.
After her marriage to Leicester she had to deal not only with the Queens moods, and the gossip about her husband and Elizabeth...but also the specter of Amy Dudley's unresolved death. On top of all that to lose a child so young.
In later years her son Essex's escapades must have kept her on edge. And her daughter didn't seem to make things any easier.
This video did a good job of humanizing her, after history has too long dismissed her as the archetypal, self-serving 'she-wolf.'
As so beautifully stated here, she was more than a marriage.
Oh wow I remember reading that long ago….
I loved Victoria Holt! As a teenager, I read everything by her and Jean Plaidy.
Leicester also loved Elizabeth. His feelings didn’t ever go away for her. As we can see by his letters and him spending more time with her than Lettice.
Poor Lettice. No parent should bury their child. To outlive all your children is unfathomable! I have 3 kids and can't even (and don't want to) imagine the sorrow she must have felt. She definitely deserves better representation from history. Thanks for sharing!💖💖
Dr. Kat quoting Beyonce is the joy i didn't know i needed today.
Gah, love you woman!
Oh, this should be VERY interesting!
I have always felt that Lettice Knollys is a tragic figure. If anyone was a “she-wolf”, it was Elizabeth I - truly her father’s daughter.
I read it carefully, but did not find an interesting word. Perhaps you deleted it?
So Elizabeth feeling the very emotion of jealousy and being petty, spiteful about it towards the woman who she perceived as a rival for the affection of the ONE man she may have truly loved but was never able to marry for reasons of state and the hateful slander perpetuated on her and their relationship makes her the equal of a wife murdering, lecherous sociopath? Seriously? Even a saint would have been bitter/angry in this situation. Was it "fair" of her to blame Lettice for it all? Of course not. But Elizabeth was as human and fallible as all of us. You saying that that's on par with executing spouses, friends, ministers and robbing/plundering/destroying the monasteries and its priceless art, books etc. makes me side eye y...you know what? No. You saying that is sexism, plain and simple.
How is Elizabeth being jealous is the same thing as henry murdering his wives including her mother?
@@charlottestewart5802 wtf?
@@elisabetta611 Elizabeth was a controlling narcissist. Her gender doesn’t excuse her horrid behavior towards her obsession’s wife. She was possessive and power mad.
Obviously, the term "sour grapes" doesn't apply when you're the queen. (Apparently, spin doctors were alive and well even back then - if not well before). Anyway, thanks Dr. Kat for another fascinating trip through Tudor history. Now go and enjoy a well-deserved weekend with Jamie and little Gabriel. 👍❤
I’ve always had a soft spot for Lettice after reading an historical novel about her when I was a teenager. I can’t remember the author, but I think she did a fair job of portraying a genuine love story between Lettice and Dudley and the difficulties they had because of Elizabeth. Personally, while I admire the young Elizabeth and her early years as Queen, I think she became difficult, demanding and over-bearing as an older woman. I feel that her paranoia was probably fed by Cecil. Lettice is one of my favourite historical women. I think she was unfairly criticised and judged, dealt a lot of hard knocks in life, and yet still lived as a strong woman doing the best she could. Brava Lettice.
Same here. I read My Enemy the Queen by Victoria Holt and have had a keen interest in Lettice ever since.
@@nancydellinger303 Same! I love that book!
@@nancydellinger303 That was it! Thank you. I couldn't remember the author or title of the book. Should have known it was Victoria Holt. I think I read everything she wrote when I was a teenager.
@@terris7842 I think I read them all as well.
I've bought 'My Enemy the Queen' and look forward to reading! I admire Lettice so much. She surely was proud and sometimes very vain but that's how ut turns out when at the centre of attention at court. With no doubt she knew full well how to use her beauty but she never 'meant' to take Robert away from Elizabeth. She fell in love with him and he with her. He never stopped loving Elizabeth but they couldn't marry
The most intelligent discussion I've heard to date on this family and their interactions with the Throne.
Elizabeth did expect Robert to never marry, which is an unreasonable expectation, even for a Queen.
She was a narcissist, I reckon...
@@EH23831 Like father, like daughter.
And why not? if he truly loved her he could have been her lifetime companion but instead in her eyes betrayed her by marrying someone else who was younger and supposed to be a prettier version of Elizabeth which was seen by her as extreme betrayal
@@lynnedelacy2841 He did stay her loyal friend and companion for all of his life! But this man also had desires- after Elizabeth had finally made clear she would never marry he had to move on. Try to imagine how he felt. Had he stayed Elizabeth' lover knowing she would never take him wholly his heart would have broken. He needed to ease his conscience and thus decided to settle down with Lettice whom he was affected to and could marry.
He needed legitimate heirs who would survive him.
Thanks for presenting Lettice's side. I think Rbt Dudley had hung around dancing on Elizabeth for a long time, he wanted a wife and heir. Although if he didn't care for Lettice, he would have chosen a younger woman, with a longer childbearing time available. He knew whoever he married, Elizabeth would envy and dislike, as she had with many of her gentle women. Elizabeth saw marrying privately as flouting her authority, but it was a catch 22 because she never would give consent if they had asked.
I love hearing Lettice presented as a real person and not as a cardboard "she-wolf".
So interesting that Elizabeth is always the “wronged woman” here. I can’t help but wonder if her jealousy had more to do with lettice’s relationship to relationships. Whether or not Lettice was the granddaughter of Henry VII, or whether pr not Elizabeth believed it, Lettice was descended from the Boelyns. Her mother and grandmother lived normally with their men. Not something Elizabeth’s mother, stepmothers, aunts, or sister enjoyed. And to have it be her own beloved with whom her kinswoman could live and love had to be galling. Elizabeth couldn’t marry or become pregnant without facing enormous, irrevocable consequences-likely war. I think normal relationships enraged her.
That is a really solid insight - thank you! I had not thought about it that way but I think you are onto something very intriguing, and likely also very true.
Her grandmother was Mary Boleyn who was a former mistress of Henry VIII
Elizabeth sacrificed a great deal to be a reigning Queen, in her own right, rather than be relegated to royal broodmare. Saint, she was not, but neither am I, so I can imagine being violently jealous of Lettice. Seriously, no other woman would have galled Elizabeth more. If Lord Robert wanted to punish Elizabeth for not agreeing to marry him( and make him king ) he could not have chosen better. 😅
Really intresting how lettice is viewed the interloper in Elizabeth and Dudley romance, compared to Anne Bolyn. Lettice being the true wife and Elizabeth being the other woman.
Even more so Amy Robsart was his legal wife and Elizabeth the interloper. He was legally married to her before her death and he disregarded her the most.
Really enjoy how you empathize with these individuals in history. I can’t imagine how hard it was to survive and navigate those times - especially as a woman.
Looks like she was the one that history "liked to hate". It is amazing that after so much loss she lived to such an old age and in good health. It seems she sss a very strong woman, and as you know strong women are always a good villain...
Oh wow, I didn't know that Lettice was Mary Boleyn's granddaughter. That is super interesting and yeah, there is a chance she Elizabeth's niece. That adds a whole layer to an already tangled story! I was wondering if Sir Christopher Blount was any relation to Bessie Blount the mother of Henry VIII's illegitimate son?
I was wondering the same thing!
I think her mother had like a state funeral which is unusual unless elizabeth was aware of their degree of relation.
Sir Christopher's father, Sir Thomas Blount, was Bessie's first cousin.
I just found out that Lettice is my 13th great grandmother 😮
You’ve done it again!!! A huge gap in my inadequate understanding of the Robert Dudley/Elizabeth/ Lettice situation has been filled! You again brought so much history into the light! Thank You!!!!
I love your videos!!! I'm a big history buff. Medieval times are my favorite. The supposed love story of Edward 4th and Elizabeth Woodville and their sons the Princes in the Tower. And then even before them fascinates me. I think Elinor of Aquitaine is a most fascinating woman. I would loved to have known her.
I’m so glad you’ve done this video and come to this conclusion. I have too following reading ‘the Queen’s Rival’. I think Lettice would make a good film in her own right.
If Elizabeth wanted Dudley she should’ve put a ring on it.
It would have been a terrible political mistake for her. Not only was Dudley her subject, but also there were rumors that his first wife was killed (by him or Elizabeth's order). If you want examples what happens to a queen who marries a guy with a shady reputation for love just google Mary Stuart.
@@kogotokLenok exactly, it would of been a difficult marriage to pull off. And Elisabeth was well aware of how Mary Stewarts marriage played out.
Also his family was in disgrace as supposed traitors as well.
She couldn’t marry him even if she wanted to (and I do believe he was the one who tempted her the most).
@@michaelsinger4638 fair. But her choice to remain bitter and vindictive about the situation tells us a lot. Clearly they had no understanding if he ended up seeking a wife elsewhere, and she wasn't mature enough to deal with it.
@@InThisEssayIWill... yeah but who wouldnt be? Imagine being in love with someone and not being able to act on it and they get to move on but you cant for the exact reason that you couldnt pick them. Its not right but its very human and predictable. You would have to be a saint to not be bitter and at least a bit vindictive
I remember discovering Lettice when I was a teenager and started reading about Elizabeth 1. Of the two women I always thought Lettice would be the one I'd like as a friend. Elizabeth, of course, is fascinating, but Lettice seemed like a good person caught up in extraordinary circumstances.
Thank-you for this wonderful video!
I have played Lettice Knollys at a Renaissance Faire since 2011, and I find her a fascinating person. So many previous actresses have played her as the villainess, and I feel it isn’t a fair portrayal of her. I try to play her as more human-perhaps a bit vain, but certainly not evil. She was far more complex than that. I think she truly loved Leicester-she had a strong relationship with Elizabeth-and marrying Her favourite was a risky move for Lettice. I’m sure she weighed the pros and cons of marrying him, and also considered whether or not Elizabeth would forgive her. History gives us the answer to this-Elizabeth tried to make Lettice’s life difficult after the marriage. And, in most cases, the winner “writes” the history. It makes me wonder how many other people who are betrayed poorly got the short straw in the history books. We often only get the one version. And as we know, there are always 3 sides to a story…yours, mine, and the truth.
I think she was very similar to her cousin/aunt Elizabeth in looks and personality. They both loved fashion, pageantry and the same man. Lettice was so much like Elizabeth that the Queen found it an affrontery to her ego.🙂
Lettice has been glossed-over in all the books I've read on Elizabeth. The only thing I have ever read is that she was a rival in beauty. Had no idea she married Dudley. Always had a deep curiosity about Lettice. Wow, what a woman!
Trying to explain (not justify), the Queen's sour attitude: Elizabeth probably felt twice betrayed when she learned - in emotionally stressful circumstances - of the marriage between Robert and Lettice: one was her long term favourite, the other was a kinswoman and probably a friend ...at least up to the news of the marriage. For many people, betrayal by a friend feels more hurtful than betrayal by a love interest.
Amazing! Living thru' all those reigns. If only she'd kept a journal.
Elizabeth & Robert Dudley are legendary. Lost love makes us wonder “ What if ?” or recall our younger years. Elizabeth would not have married Dudley because of the scandal of his first wife’s death. Amy Dudley’s mysterious death from a fall down the stairs was well investigated but never accepted as accidental. Elizabeth’s fear of intimacy or marriage was rooted in her childhood due to her father’s horrible murder of her mother, Anne Boleyn. Still baggage aside, Elizabeth and Dudley are unfirgetable.
Very interesting and you’re absolutely right in suggesting she’s been tarred and feathered by historical fiction authors.
Well done.
Lettice Knollys is one of my favourites. Thank you
After reading My Enemy the Queen, I have always been sympathetic for Lettice Knollys. Thanks for giving her some deserved attention and presenting her point of view.
Whoo! Thanks for introducing me to this fabulously unfathomable woman. I can see her grimly smiling, walking that mile a day, having survived everyone and everything including the rapacious Queen.
Her life story is so heartbreaking. Impossible to imagine what it must have felt like trying to carry on your life with someone you love with the pressure on you that the queen is completely unhappy with you.
What did she expect?
@@bbybella9937 I don't know, shall i get in my time machine and ask her?
@@laineymac4133 I mean I’m trying to understand why her story is heartbreaking. She knew what she was doing and she accepted the consequences.
Robert and Lettice sound like one of the few Tudor couples who truly loved each other
Just like him and Bess. Though they couldn't marry💔
He still loved Elizabeth even during and after his marriage to Lettice.
not really!
He married her after so many years of being rejected by Elizabeth and she was the younger image of Elizabeth, which means even marrying her in the first place was because of the actual obsession he had with Elizabeth which no woman (unless if it was someone like her) could satisfy. which means even the beginning of marriage is totally messed up version of love for someone else.
even after marriage, he never stopped loving Elizabeth and even in one of his letters he said that she rules his position and heart and soul
Thank you for giving us the correct pronunciation of her last name.
And her first!
Yes indeed. I thought it was Lettuce Knollis!
@@alexandralusco I wasn’t sure because I have heard it pronounced like the vegetable. 😂
Boy, the Queen could really hold a grudge.
Your narration and presentation really bring history to life and have revived my interest enormously. Thank you.
I agree with others concerning the relationships in this video. It has always amazed me about how people male and female handled themselves with all of the palace intrigue and an ax hanging over everyone's head. What a balancing act!
Oh yay, i requested this a while ago and I am so happy to see it! This subject and these two just fascinate me. Thank you for covering them!
This was very fascinating. To have lived into her 90s at that time is incredible. I love your presentations and always look forward to them. Thank you.
This was excellent. I do wish we could get these stories in tv adaptations, we have so many of the kings and queens, but what of those around them.
The more you know about the whole royal mess, the more miserable and depraved the whole lot are revealed to be.
Indeed. They taxed the weak and poor mercilessly to fund their houses and entertainments. Tortured and killed their opponents yet are still kept in luxury to this day. People must love to be enslaved.
Thank you, Dr. Kat. Very interesting, indeed.
These names are so familiar to anyone who knows Donizetti’s Tudor operas (often mislabeled a trilogy, but never conceived as one). The only name missing is Mary Stuart, but she was likely involved in the plot somehow!
As always, another fascinating examination of history and legend, particularly the ongoing speculation surrounding Elizabeth I and Robert Dudley. How attached to him was she really. For wasn't it Robert Dudley that Elizabeth wanted to marry off to Mary, Queen of Scots? Was it more a matter of being upset that he chose his own path and married Lettice? And in Elizabeth's egotistical view, Lettice had to be the villain. Thank you, Dr. Kat. I learn so much from your videos.
I find the power people of certain titles back then truly amazing . It sure gives a lot of food for thought .THANKYOU for sharing all your knowledge and such wonderful chats.I have tried over the years to guess at so many puzzles and with your charm and warmth you make things so clear.
Very interesting video, definitely something to think about. I think I like this version of Dudley and Lettice's life together.
Love your channel! I love history, any type of history. I am so happy to have found you. Keep up the wonderful work. You are a genuine pleasure to listen to.
I love your channel! I always learn something new. Thank you for bringing such exquisite quality and presentation to the various topics of history.
Thank you so much for the video! I had no idea Elizabeth and Lettice were related! Elizabeth was a great queen, but definitely a villain in Lettice's story. But I guess it's not great when you can't be with a person you love, so I kind of understand why the queen was so vindictive
your videos on amazing women from the past are my favourite amongst all on your channel, thank you for the wonderful work, it's fascinating to learn about Lettitia, I think that yes, Elizabeth expected Dudley to not marry at all or marry someone of her choosing (purely transactional) that he wouldn't love, like, respect or desire; she could not marry for political reasons but it doesn't mean that she wouldn't have romantic feelings or desires. I think both women were in sad position here but at least Lettitia had her man marry and support her without extra agenda which the queen could never have. It's such a thrill to look at people from the past and people now and see how much we've changed... and how little human nature really changed, How gossip, sexual affairs, romances, power games, competing over partners etc. is still the same as it was for millennia...
I think your transactional point is a great one… after all she made a show of offering him up to Mary, Queen of Scots. I wonder what she would have done if either or both of them had actually been keen on the idea?
Lettice is quite beautiful in this portrait next to Dudley's compared to many other women of this era. I always thought her a very sympatheric character and it was clear to me that Dudley loved her, and he played up to Elizabeth as any savvy courtier would in the same circumstances.
Great look at Lettice Knollys, a character I first met (as did many here) in the historical novel "My Enemy the Queen" by Victoria Holt. I enjoy your videos very much.
God, I love your videos! Please, just never retire!!!
I wondered why I haven’t seen any of your videos for a while. UA-cam unsubscribed me. That’s not cool. This is one of my favorite channels.
I don't think we should consider the mariages of high ranking noble people of the 16th century through the filter of live stories, nor the mariages that did not take place as non-love stories. People married for rank and status and fortune and land, that was perfectly legitimate, and the Queen married no one because of power and politics, also legitimate. It has little to do with who loved whom, or who slept with whom.
And it all resulted in so much heartbreak.
I was so happy to hear someone agree w me about how incredible this lady was & how badly she was treated by the Queen!
I have always been interested in Lettice and as a teen read "My Enemy the Queen" by Victoria Holt. Of course, this was historical fiction, but I found it fascinating. Thank you for your factual historical reading...I enjoyed it very much!
I just checked and found that I was not subscribed...?? don't know why, but I checked in again. Good work Dr. Kat, love your channel.
Thank you for this informative video. I had no idea who Leticce was except as the woman Dudley married and how it angered the Queen. My goodness, how complicated those relationships are!
I love these biographical videos that you bless us with.
Elizabeth was a great queen but a shrew in a her personal life.
Love your videos....from Baltimore, Maryland!
This is all new to me on Dudley and Elizabeth. Thank you for providing a more balanced view of history..
Or should I say "herstory"?
No, because "herstory" is cringe and only continues the divide you complain about
Actually, history has nothing to do with a him. I heard this in a lecture given by Professor Gregory Nagy, so I never knew whether the meaning of history was supposed to be the sentence, "I witness," or the phrase, "eye witness."
Online, the matter is complicated. The several definitions include, "inquiry," as both the act of seeking knowledge and the knowledge found. While another definition is simply, "story."
@@christopherbrown5409 It doesn't establish a divide actually. ' Herstory' aims at highlighting the importance of women in the past- since in HIStory books it is mostly told of men's achievements
Please do something of Cecile Neville ( Cecily of York) !
Thank you Dr Kat. I like the way you deconstruct the popular myths regarding the Royal History of England. Thank you. You ar every refreshing and I enjoy your videos very much.
Very interesting video. Thank you! What a long and fascinating life she led, punctuated by so much personal loss. Looks like Robert loved both women. Surely I can’t be the only person who thought her name was pronounced ‘Lettuce ‘a la salad’ Knollis or Knollies’?!
I recently stumbled onto your channel and I absolutely love it. I am planning a trip to London in April and I wanted to listen to more history and you have really been educational. Thank you ! :-)
Thank you xx
Thank you 🥰
Was waiting for this one!!
I find it interesting that everyone blames Lettice and even Elizabeth but never Robert? He was the one going back and forth between the two women. It's curious that women always seem to want to blame the other women but not their husband in the case of affairs! Great video! PS Before anyone comes at me, not ALL women, just some blame the other woman and not their husband. Some do blame their husbands as well as the other woman and divorce him for cheating. Just meant the majority and it's very curious to me.
Fascinating video! I'd not heard this information before, only seen the depiction of Lettice in Elizabeth R, which wasn't very flattering. Thank you so much.
What a survivor. Must have been strong to deal with all that.
Thank you for this interesting story. I’m so glad that you pointed out that it’s not pronounced like the salad vegetable. I’m blind, and that’s listen to audiobooks. There was I believe an Agatha Christie novel, that had a character who had the same name and unfortunately, the narrator pronounced it lettuce the vegetable. I did have to giggle pretty much every time she was mentioned. Thank you for your effort and for your gentleness and for your kindness in speaking to us.
I will always be a Bess/Robin "shipper" but I agree, Lettice has been demonized very much like Anne Boleyn was before her, even for similar reasons. (See, I DO believe Henry loved BOTH Katharine AND Anne!) Well done, Dr. Kat!!
Ment years ago I read the book “My Enemy the Queen” by Victoria Holt under the pen name of Jean Plaidy. This UA-cam follows much the same story. Victoria Holt wrote many historical novels. I think you and she did good research.
I've missed the tudor uploads you do such an amazing job of them x
Excellence is always the rule on this channel! TYVM!
Call me what you will, but the more personal things I am learning about ER, the more grateful I am that I was not in her circle of "friends" and family lol she seems to be an intensely complicated person who would be frightening in her moods and her power to act on those moods...but if this channel makes anything more clear, it is that one cannot make judgment about history without risking great failures. We cannot make windows into their souls, indeed. Continue to be fascinated by your work, Dr Kat, cant wait to see who/what is up next!!
The only thing I don’t admire about the great Elizabeth I is her vanity. She was completely unforgiving to anyone who didn’t maintain the fiction that she was the only beautiful, desirable woman in the kingdom. Maybe one more thing, she did nothing for the sailors and soldiers who fought in the Armada, even the ones who were disabled. I know she claimed she was too broke, but she could have cut back on her silk gown and jewelry purchases a bit, to help at least those who could no longer work after their service for their country. She was liberal enough in making promises beforehand.
She left them to starve on the ships, refusing to let them disembark, so that she could thin down the wages bill. And now we have Covid and a certain govt thinking along the same lines! Think of the money they can recoup if all the weakest members of society drop dead
@Turnip
Such was Cuomo’s approach in NY. House the infected in elder care facilities. Dispatched thousands.
She also did not send money for food to the soldiers in the Netherlands.
That she was Gloriana was sheer Tudor propaganda. Even more bloody Than Mary 1.
I had no idea
History is written by those of the time. And they would not have written anything against the Queen. Thus, the truth was rewritten to enhance their potential climb up the social ladder, and Lettice was the scapegoat in this particular chapter. Thanks for a very interesting video, Kat.
Elizabeth, with the marriage-social constructs of the time couldn't marry Lesister without losing power. I can understand her fury and frustration watching he cousin secure what she couldn't have but it was her choice. Lesister desired an heir. He would never have one with the Queen. Lettuce must have known that marrying the Queens favorite would leave her forever ostracized. The decisions made ensured the inevitable outcome.
You are a wonderful (hi)story teller! I find I mourn Lettice a bit even though she had a long and eventful life. She becomes a real person through your video! ❤ Thank you!
Your Chanel is so calming and interesting! Rely appreciate the historical insights. I think your story in the video demonstrates the pattern of powerful people shaping the narrative historically and today. It makes perfect sense that this would be the way things were vrsus how they are told so long after such events. Thank you for offering an insightful and nuanced alternative narrative, in this and all videos you do.
Wonderful, I love the way you give dates and so much information. Thank you.
Thank you very much dear doc Kat ! I am fascinated about Tudors .
Love love love your channel. I just let it play in my ears, while working away! Thank you for doing this! ❤️ Love from Los Angeles!
Very interesting, I didn't know much about Lettice. What an interesting life she lead, joys and sorrows both. Thanks, Dr. Kat. See you next week.
I always hit the like button before I listen because I know It will be quality and hold my attention effortlessly! Thank you for educating us! I think you are spot on with Lettice. Contrary to history books).Cheers from 🇺🇸
Really love these videos. Love hearing the in depth analysis of these figures in history
thank you so much for this content!
Fab video! Thanks for sharing her story!
Finally back to basics! this is what I love.
Wonderful! I loved this presentation! It is such fun to learn about the people who were in the heads and hearts (and, sometimes just in the bedrooms) of the Kings and Queens.
Fascinating, as always! 👏👏👏
I like the way you expanded on the thinking about these relationships. I don't Elizabeth would have married.
Always so informative and fascinating. Great presentation.
Thank you so much for this video. Fascinating and tragic for Lettice.
I had heard that Lettice Knollys was a younger, prettier version of Queen Elizabeth. Probably she was also more carefree due to having less responsibilities than her cousin and possible aunt.
Fascinating , thank you! I just found you and subscribed!
I am looking forward to watching all your content!
I am the 24x granddaughter of Eleanor du Aquitaine 💗
Thank you for this! How sad and her life was very controlled