In Favor of 20 Rep Squats for BEGINNERS
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- Опубліковано 31 лип 2024
- #20RepSquats #WidowMaker #EnkiriEliteFitness
I've been dabbling with the classic 20 rep squat program for the past few weeks and as such I've posted several of my training sets on my channel recently. With that people have started asking me at what point in their own training would it be appropriate for them to implement this routine, and many people want to know if the routine is appropriate for beginner trainees. Some people in the fitness industry seem to think so, but I am not one of them and in this video I explain precisely why 20 rep squats and beginners do not mix.
1:38 Reason #1: Beginner trainees are not strong enough (relative to their own potential) to get the most out of using this method. They are also incapable of making full use of the strength they do have because the nervous system hinders force production during complex movement patterns that are unfamiliar to it. Using the incredibly light training weights that would be required to hit 20 reps at this stage is both unproductive and highly sub-optimal.
6:01 Reason #2: Beginner trainees have not yet established a stable squat motor pattern that can hold up under conditions of high fatigue. High reps and fatigue (literally the point of the 20 rep squat protocol) along with an unstable motor pattern is a bad recipe that will potentially lead to injury. Due to the inherent and inevitable technical breakdown that will occur as fatigue mounts, especially in less experienced lifters, performing high rep squats like this as a beginner trainee is not conducive to mastering the squat pattern either, in spite of the high number of repetitions performed. Pure Bullfit makes an appearance here to defend Athlean-X for prescribing 20 rep squats to beginner lifters!
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You’re one of the few guys on UA-cam fitness who actually truly understands what he’s talking about.
Thanks man. I appreciate that.
tried squatting 20 reps every week for 4 weeks. started with around 60% of my 1RM and succeeded at squatting more than 70% of my 1RM on the last week of the cycle. I must say other than the benefits of adding more muscle, my confidence in squatting improved tremendously with 20 rep sets. Definitely worth a try only if you've been squatting for a very long time and technique is consistent.
and yes the soreness a day or two after is crazy LOL
That competition squat of 523lbs - there's pretty much zero breakdown in form. The top powerlifters are like that.
It was a solid grind from the way I remember it!
Great video as always, Alec! I love that you dare oppose the fake gurus of youtube. It seems that no one dares dispute them, no matter how mind boggingly wrong they might be. Keep up the great work! Love from sweden.
Thanks Dennis, I appreciate the support.
You make excellent points. The one counterargument which seems plausible to me is that 20 rep squats build a mental toughness which bleeds into all other aspects of training past that point. Because 20 rep squats are, as many can attest, some of the most uncomfortable work you can do in the gym. Once you experience high levels of discomfort and get acclimated to them, this helps recalibrate all of the other work you do in the gym.
16:06 I would also mention that he’s got the “prestigious” CSCS.
Anyways, great video. I think this has covered the nuances of 20 rep squats that are most relevant to a lot of people watching this video and who want to try them out.
The next argument he would try to make in response to this would go as such: "I wasn't talking about THE 20 rep squat in that clip, I was just talking about doing sets of 20 reps. Not the same thing at all!" Even though the clip is a direct response to me talking about the 20 rep squat method. I should have watched his response video when he made it last year. It's flimsy as hell and the fact that people gobbled it right up is quite sad.
@@EnkiriElite Haha, that wouldn't be surprising. The fact that he made claims like 20 rep squats for beginners without riling up any outcry in the comments highlights how much knowledge and experience is lacking in the mob that blindly supports Jeff, which is almost _scary_
@@curlean-x4443 yeah, it shows you that they're literally all just laypeople with absolutely no experience in the weight room. Like every single last one of them. The funny part is you have to ask yourself why they even watch those "fitness" channels when absolutely none of them even workout? It's just amusing.
Higher rep sets for beginners causes breakdown in form. Halfway through the long set the lifter stops focusing on executing the lift properly and focuses on just getting the bar from A to B. 20 reps, perfect form.
Edit: you go into this in detail in this video. I jumped the gun with my little comment here.
Lol yeah, that aspect was actually my main contention here. I was just trying to get the other point out of the way first, but maybe I should have reversed the order of the two reasons in the video.
I did it today dude 20 reps I shouted my legs became jelly it’s thanks to you
super good advices!
Very nice work 🔥💪👍
Thanks dude.
FLAWLESS VICTORY!!!
Josh Figueroa seriously though. Pure bullfit is a dumbass. He has his so far up athleans x’s ass that he could see his colon if he wanted to.
Hi Alec, what if i did something like this: upper-lower-upper-lower. On the first lower day 20 rep skwats+deadlift accessories and on the second lower day 20 reps/high reps dealift+skwat accessories
Alec - you're such a Goku!! Hats off to you on all the hard work. You're a monster:)
Thank you, good sir.
Monster? 😂😂😂😂 lmfao ive trained with women more badass than this dude
@@summondominion show me any woman who can outperform him now... Just send me 1..
@@zaccyo lmfao easy Rebecca roberts, stephie Cohen, Olga Liashchuk, should I keep going lmfao 🤡
I've done 20 rep squats before with lighter weight. I'ts tough even with light weight. When I did squats before I started to struggle as I got to 7 or 8 reps when I did squats. Doing 20 rep squats gives to that I rep endurance.
Opinions opinions . 20 reps helped me too . 20 reps x4 sets of 135 lbs
When using this my heavy days were much easier .u have to eat in order for anything to happen though cause i guess if u arnt that much muscle break down can be bad
I like this channel
I started super squats about 5 weeks ago my max squat was 205 my first set of 20 was with 115 pounds 5 weeks later im at 160 for 20 it doesnt take long
This honestly, I haven't done them yet but I plan too. I don't see why he discouraged doing this for lighter weights, we're all at different strength levels
What if I've squatted for a few years, have got good form, and am getting back into training?
I would probably work my way up with something more "reasonable" for a few weeks to break yourself back in and re-acclimate to the movement and the stresses involved. Just a basic linear progression starting with something very easy and running up, say, a 5x5 for 6 weeks or so. Then maybe take a short deload and go nuts with the 20 rep squats after that. Working your way up the base beforehand like that is going to make the program safer and make the results better, imo, especially if you've had a long layoff due to COVID.
Started at 225 3 weeks ago, just did 290 today…was terrible.
I’m squatting 3x a week. I added 10lbs to each workout until 265 and then started adding 5 per workout and so I just started week 4 at 290. Goal is to get to 315 and do it 3 times a week. My last 1rm was 405. So 315 would be touching 80%, but i think my 1RM is probably over 405, probably like 420 or a bit more.
The feeling when you rack after that 20th rep is like nothing I’ve ever felt weightlifting. More like how you gel after running 800 meters as fast as you can. Terrible…
Hey Alec! Have you heard anyone doing or have you ever tried any "beginner stuff" like Starting Strength while being an advanced lifter? All advanced lifters tend to do advanced stuff so if they'd switch to some basic 5x5 program for a while would their gains strength and hypertrophywise take a setback?
Not necessarily. It depends in part on how you've been training leading up to that point, but I'm general, imo, anyone can maintain the majority of strength they've built even just by running a simple linear progression ok something as basic as the standard 5x5.
One of my best friends is former ifbb pro tony freeman. One of his legs were two of yours. He will tell you 20-30 rep sets is how he built his mass. Notice i said mass. I didn't say power or strength.
20 reps resistance to failure is normally great for beginners to assist proper form and avoid imbalances and overload.
Lol
What upper body training did you do during 20 rep squats? Thanks man.
I was doing strict press once a week, push press once a week, and then a little bit of dips and chin-ups once a week. And that was it!
13:57 that's his voice, you just shifted into pure bullfits actual voice
Curious if you can build strong cardio by just doing high rep squats. Guessing it's too short to effectively do much.
Love the Lego hair
Didn't Rippetoe cover fatigue vs. number of reps like a million years ago and that's one of the reasons he opted to advise beginners 5 sets of 5? That's 25 reps, not including warmups, plenty to practice form without fatigue getting out of the way. I'm pretty sure he had research showing novices experienced form breakdown around 7 or 8 reps anyway iirc.
Yes, Rippetoe has harped on this concept repeatedly. It's also not even a new concept. It's been around since the dawn of the modern strength training age, Rippetoe adopted it and disseminated it in highly popular fashion, which, for all of his flaws, is still something that should be lauded.
I don’t know why people don’t understand high reps are ineffective for beginners to learn correct movement patterns. ( and these people are supposedly “educated” on the topic ) Why would a beginner do 3-4 sets of 20 when he could instead do 6-8 sets of 10. It’s the same amount of total repetitions and you get the added benefit of little to no form breakdown as opposed to the higher rep sets. I don’t understand how people promoting this kind of nonsense have a much greater following than people like you 😔
They’re more or less snake oil dealers... I really hate those guys and their cult leader-like status on youtube. Just check out athlean x’s beginners program If you want a laugh... goddamn ridicuolus!
Yes, for Bullfit to ignore the aspect of fatigue accumulation for motor learning was highly disingenuous, but acknowledging that point did not fit the narrative he was making in order to defend Athlean-X. And well, he wouldn't have a tenth as many subscribers as he does now if he hadn't made all those videos about me to defend Jeff. The irony is both palpable and laughable.
Question Alec : Many top coaches are in favour of highrep good mornings in certain situations, are you up for a good set of 20 reps with 315 lbs on an Olympic bar to decent depth torso bend?
Or is it even humanly possible, in your opinion?
I would just wonder if there is a way to do that without tipping over if the weight gets much more than one's body mass.
Check out Jason Robson,he did that 315 x 20 last week
Is a 315x20 good morning humanly possible? Of course! Am I up for it? Lol no. I'm sure many great athletes and coaches have found value in good mornings, but I personally have not.
@@nahuelise4055 Robsons just fat though, I'm on about jacked dude's lol
@@stevegeorge6880proper form lol need to push the hips back to keep the bar as close to over your feet as possible
Your quads are ridiculous as a Natty lol, very impressive
Thank you, sir.
So to put it bluntly a beginner can use the 20 rep squat, I haven't trained since August 2021 due to covid and covid related health problems and I just started back and it's what I started back with. Plus the 20 rep squat was a good beginners from 1936 when Mark Berry introduced it to the world in The Mark Berry Barbell Courses
Anyone can do anything! Doesn't mean it's the best course of action.
@@EnkiriElite 🙄 spoken like a true UA-cam influencer who wants people to think one way.the 20 rep squat program is perfect for anyone beginner, intermediate or advanced
@@josephperkins4857 "one way to accomplish the task" is literally the exact opposite of what I preach on my channel. Either get a feel for the actual message here or stop commenting. And I'm not an "influencer. "
20 rep squats will only cause more fatigue and more form breakdown.If anything its actually more dangerous and more taxing than lower reps and will engrave poor movement patterns because the quality of each rep will drop as fatigue accumulates.Of course that doesnt mean beginners should do the opposite extreme and start with heavy triples but starting with 20 reps as a beginner is straigtht up dumb.
Agreed. 20 reps as a learning tool is pointless, counterproductive, and dangerous. End of story.
I did it for 6 weeks and helped my 1 rep max
Alec can you recommend some good overhead press progression for intermediate lifter?Ive been stuck on 170 overhead press for a while and getting frustrated.
I like doing the press 2x a week, one heavy session and one volume session. For the heavy day start with the press, ramp up to a heavy set of 3-5 reps, then take off 10-20lbs and do 2-3 more sets. Then hit some assistance work and call it. For the voulme day start off with some bench press work or incline press work and then after that move on to the press. 4 sets of 8-10 at first and then drop the rep range down to 6-8 reps down the road. Simple!
@@EnkiriElite On the heavy day are the back off sets meant to be difficult too or is the RPE is lower on them?
They will feel difficult because you'll be tired from top set, but they will always be manageable because they're autoregulated from day to day based on how much you were able to lift on the heaviest set of the day. RPE isn't really the indicator to use there.
@@EnkiriElite So top set of 3-5 reps and then reduce weight by 10-20 lbs and then again 3-5 reps?
@@mattjackson2799 yes
Y’all ever watched vid of Pete rubish did 405 for 25 reps
Have you ever been skinny? like ectomorph type? Tnx :)
Yes, before I started weight training I was very skinny.
George leemaning intensifies*
@Rabbi Hashem Shalomovitchbirgenshekelsteinberg nothing builds mass quite like it drugs or not.
No doubt. My legs are bigger than ever right now.
I can't squat un empty bar for 20 reps
What should i do after 20 rep squat?
Eat some food.
do you have any advice for a teenage girl looking to grow her glutes? I am quite strong as I have been doing gym for years, yet only just started lifting heavier weights (I was lifting light dumbbells for years). I eat loads and i know everyone says progressive overload but how much should i be lifting?
If you are already squatting then add in some isolated hip extension exercises, like hip thrusts.
@@EnkiriElite I do hip thrusts but I worry im not lifting enough. I have a barbell with 25kg on it but I haven't been squatting for long so I might just stay consistant
@@saskiafinnan4216 try lunges/split squats!!! They always fry my glutes like crazy. And my glutes look epic so it seems to work lol
@@saskiafinnan4216 I know its been 3 years and you're probably jacked by now, but high rep RDLs destroy your hamstrings.
@@ChristianXavier-dq8ld it’s true…. i have come a long way in that time and i can thank high rep rdls and bulgarian drop sets
I knew you were trolling when I read the title ha
Just pretending to troll.
Yeah. Maybe trolling was the wrong word.
Playful trolling?😂
But I totally agree. It truly baffles my mind hearing top fitness UA-camrs prescribe 20 rep squat routines to noobs
Seems to be a fashion for 20 reps just for legs....when in fact 20 reps is great for any muscle group....
I am capable of doing 255 for 20 and when I did that I did not even look like i lifted, and my quads were not big at all. I did this at 160lbs 5'8 to depth.
I would rather get big, strong, and athletic in more conventional ways that don't make me dread training like the 20 rep squats did. I started at 135lbs 2x a week and added 10-20lbs until I got to 255.
so what are you doing now? 255 for 20 seems like a good number
@@Cris18Martinez im not doing 20 rep squats anymore, i squat 350 now at 174, but im onto box squatting since my quads suck. Box squatting helps me focus better on keeping knees forward etc. I couldn't do 350 when i did 255 for 20.
Since I've made that post I have given up natty training btw. I've also been being a bro and mostly benching, and overhead pressing tbh
@@MrStrutxD embrace the dark side
Channeling your inner Dugan Ashley. #BoogleBoo
Lol who though?
@@EnkiriElite search "CarnikCon" on youtube
@@jdhill770 I have no idea what I just watched but it made me chuckle.
@@EnkiriElite That, my friend, was the beginning of youtube/internet gun comedy. Back to my og statement, take it as a complement.
@@jdhill770 hahah noted.
Hi bro I’m following Jason Blaha’s novice program I can bench 225 for 5 squat 315 for 5 but can only deadlift 315 for 5? Why is my deadlift so weak? Please help I wanna hit a 405 deadlift for 5 plz help I’m 25 years old 6 ft 2 inches tall 242 pounds fat and some muscle and I think I have a huge torso and short legs with medium arms big fan of your channel please help me get my deadlift up to 405 for 5 without a belt currently deadlift 315 for 5
Lol is he right?
You forgot the part where AthleanX prescribes do 20+ rep squats TO FAILURE. Which is uh a lot worse.
It's certainly not better lol
@@EnkiriElite How about 1 minute rests? Oh and set after set you do more and more reps.
@@ProphetFear haha wait are you saying he has prescribed multiple sets of 20 reps in a single session? Or he increases the number of reps from set to set in a single workout with 60 seconds rest between sets?
@@EnkiriElite Both might have happened separately. He might have done 5-10-15-25 AND he did for sure recommend 10x10 70-80% 1RM with 1-2 (MAX) minute rest.
@@ProphetFear yikes. 10x10 @ 80% with 1-2 minutes rest? Lol. I would get one set and fail the second haha.
World is really a sad place when Alec has so little subscribers and some people who don't know shit have 9 million
20 reps is childsplay. Try 30