Fantastic video! You recreated the 4 forms to this same song in 2 different time frames. Canaro the close embrace was really intimate the Pugliese open embrace was much more dynamic and vivid. Thank you fantastic to watch these differences 💃🏼
Very helpful - thanks! In my experience a lot of people, when they talk about "Milonguero" embrace, mean leaning towards each other (which I would call "apilado" style).
yes! I used to think the same thing. As I now understand it, apilado is an aspect of leaning forward that you can have in Milonguero style, but it not necessarily a requirement
Well, at the risk of being pilloried by the "there's no such thing as Milonguero Style" faction, I'll add another distinction: The majority of modern instructors who have chosen to teach a "Milonguero Style" of Tango, also agree that one of the definitive aspects is the consistent alignment of the shoulder girdles and pelvic bowls of the dance partners in this style. So, sustained close embrace is not it. The "all four headlights aligning" aspect is key. The chest does not roll around the spine in relation to the other partners chest, and the pelvis does not point away from the partner's pelvis. This markedly changes the delivery of many movements, and makes some movements impractical or mechanically impossible without "breaking" or "tearing" the embrace apart, forcing the partners to "peel off" of the full association in the dance. By this measure, it's no longer useful to say that Milonguero Style doesn't exist. If it didn't, it does now. So, what you demo above in close embrace, is a hybrid form. Close Embrace Salon Style is what I call it, and it's how I was taught close embrace by Salon Dancers, before being introduced to Milonguero Style Tango. As to the Pugliese, he is my favorite, and I'd happily dance it in close embrace all day, and punctuate it with as much energy as you brought to the Salon Style dance you did in open embrace. I think that's choice of movement "feel" rather than movement "size". The Poogz don't mind if you keep it close, just keep it sharp! Abrazos
exactly what I just intended to comment. It comes down to "no pivots in milonguero style". The hips stay parallel to the partners hips. Even if somebody had a super flexible spine to stay closely attached at the upper part, the hips would bump into the others hips. The v-shape close embrace that you demonstrate is not super close and would allow some pivot. You actually do the ocho-milonguero without pivot, but I would not call it milonguero-embrace until it is so close that it doesn't work another way. That close every movement has to be very small. Allthough possible, it doesn't really fit to Pugliese dramatically calling for big movements. Milonguero fits to older, rhythmical music. But which I actually do mainly depends on the space we have and on which embrace feels better with that particular partner ? Nobody should be forced into a certain embrace, the least into a close embrace.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. Yes, I would say that my Milonguero style is more of a hybrid... so is my Salon style (some might say my Salon is too Nuevo). There are a lot of details to both of the styles that are very specific and "traditional." But to the average tango dancer at the milonga, the main difference lies between dancing close embrace and open embrace which can loosely be categorized into Milonguero and Salon - for the sake of clarifying the starting point - then you can get into the specifics.
I would say it depends on what you are looking for when dancing. Is it the feeling of intimate connection or joy of dancing together simutaneously ? With that said I guess I might reveal myself as a close embrace guy. Nevertheless I think both styles can be equally rewarding depending on who you are, what you feel in the music and how you want to express it. It´s your and your partners dance, your art regardless of what others might think as long as you don´t interfere with the other dancers. Different music invites to different ways of dancing no matter what embrace you use. And so does your partner. But I would go for close embrace every day.
Great talk! I would only notice that suggesting viewers to look on the examples and try to pick their preferred style for the music is not that useful and can be even misguided in some circumstances. My understanding of social tango is that it is not so much about how it looks from the outside (assuming some elegance theshold is passed), but how it feels inside the couple. And you cannot video the latter. Pugliese, even late one, can and does feel absolutely sublime in close embrace if you know how to employ the vast additional arsenal of connection and expression tools that close embrace has. I once had a private solely on how to dance pauses in close embrace in Pugliese type music, and it totally rocked.
Me as a long dutchman of 2 meters. Its also depends of the length of the Person ! I sometimes dance with little woman round the 1.60 meters. There is a close embrace difficult. In the 21 years that I dance Tango. I have danced 6 times with a lady of my length. I have to dance in open embrace for the respect of the lady. I recognise it that the ladies like it how I do it , thats important !
Independent from the music: I dance in open embrace if the follower is about 25 cm smaller than me. If the follower is taller than me, I prefer open embrace. Greetings from Bonn/Köln.
I think we use to dance milonguero style when the music asks for this kind of embrace. Tango salón doesn´t need a lot of space in between but certainly if the ballroom is full of dancers you tend to a closer embrace. I prefer salon style with changes of energy and dynamics but only with the right partner, the right music and space enough.
The kind of embrace I would use would depend on what I feel in the partner. Regardless the embrace, the quality variation of this kind of music would be more important for me. There can be differences such as do you push on a beat? Or do you land on a beat? For me, it would depend on whether the beat has a sharp ending or a soft ending. Also, the speed of each step will not be the same. It can start out slow, then have a prompt landing, or it can be like a cat landing softly. This is what we normally refer to as the quality of a move. Personally, I like to dance to unfamiliar music if it moves me, when our emotion flows with the music, 9 out of 10 it will be the right move.
Thank you for the A/B comparisons between close and open. For me, close is better for the more dramatic stuff, pauses, and also for quicker more pronounced rhythm (which is why people tend to dance milonga in close I would imagine). Open is better for dynamics, accelerations/decelerations, flowing arpeggios. For me, the difference between earlier and later is not that one should be one way and the other another. Its more a percentage. I will dance a higher percentage of close with Canaro and higher open with Pugliese. But not exclusively close or open with either of them.
Thank you! Appreciate your comment. Yes, ultimately it can be different every time depending on the person and the space, but I'm like you, most of the time I can't imagine dancing Canaro in open embrace, but sometimes...
It doesn't havecto be a hinary choice: personally, I like "fluid abrazo" : closed for caminatas abd open for ochos. It gives a lot of dynamism to the dance, specially on styles that are evolving like Divqsarlivir Pugliese.
I prefer close embrace because I (ideally) feel the music in the followers body - also and especially with Pugliese. Although Pugliese may look more appropriate in an open embrace and can be a lot of fun, the feeling is important. See how Carlos Gavito danced Pugliese in close embrace. Example ua-cam.com/video/qOMqsPO6muM/v-deo.html
Thank you for sharing that! Love that video! And yes, I am with you. I like the way it looks when I dance Pugliese in open embrace, but I prefer to feel it in close embrace because I can feel more of my partner's body
Fantastic video! You recreated the 4 forms to this same song in 2 different time frames. Canaro the close embrace was really intimate the Pugliese open embrace was much more dynamic and vivid. Thank you fantastic to watch these differences 💃🏼
You're so welcome! So glad it was helpful :)
Definitely close embrace for this type songs))
😊
Yes! Thanks for sharing!
Very helpful - thanks! In my experience a lot of people, when they talk about "Milonguero" embrace, mean leaning towards each other (which I would call "apilado" style).
yes! I used to think the same thing. As I now understand it, apilado is an aspect of leaning forward that you can have in Milonguero style, but it not necessarily a requirement
Well, at the risk of being pilloried by the "there's no such thing as Milonguero Style" faction, I'll add another distinction: The majority of modern instructors who have chosen to teach a "Milonguero Style" of Tango, also agree that one of the definitive aspects is the consistent alignment of the shoulder girdles and pelvic bowls of the dance partners in this style. So, sustained close embrace is not it. The "all four headlights aligning" aspect is key. The chest does not roll around the spine in relation to the other partners chest, and the pelvis does not point away from the partner's pelvis. This markedly changes the delivery of many movements, and makes some movements impractical or mechanically impossible without "breaking" or "tearing" the embrace apart, forcing the partners to "peel off" of the full association in the dance. By this measure, it's no longer useful to say that Milonguero Style doesn't exist. If it didn't, it does now. So, what you demo above in close embrace, is a hybrid form. Close Embrace Salon Style is what I call it, and it's how I was taught close embrace by Salon Dancers, before being introduced to Milonguero Style Tango. As to the Pugliese, he is my favorite, and I'd happily dance it in close embrace all day, and punctuate it with as much energy as you brought to the Salon Style dance you did in open embrace. I think that's choice of movement "feel" rather than movement "size". The Poogz don't mind if you keep it close, just keep it sharp!
Abrazos
exactly what I just intended to comment. It comes down to "no pivots in milonguero style". The hips stay parallel to the partners hips. Even if somebody had a super flexible spine to stay closely attached at the upper part, the hips would bump into the others hips. The v-shape close embrace that you demonstrate is not super close and would allow some pivot. You actually do the ocho-milonguero without pivot, but I would not call it milonguero-embrace until it is so close that it doesn't work another way.
That close every movement has to be very small. Allthough possible, it doesn't really fit to Pugliese dramatically calling for big movements. Milonguero fits to older, rhythmical music. But which I actually do mainly depends on the space we have and on which embrace feels better with that particular partner ? Nobody should be forced into a certain embrace, the least into a close embrace.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. Yes, I would say that my Milonguero style is more of a hybrid... so is my Salon style (some might say my Salon is too Nuevo). There are a lot of details to both of the styles that are very specific and "traditional." But to the average tango dancer at the milonga, the main difference lies between dancing close embrace and open embrace which can loosely be categorized into Milonguero and Salon - for the sake of clarifying the starting point - then you can get into the specifics.
I would say it depends on what you are looking for when dancing. Is it the feeling of intimate connection or joy of dancing together simutaneously ? With that said I guess I might reveal myself as a close embrace guy. Nevertheless I think both styles can be equally rewarding depending on who you are, what you feel in the music and how you want to express it. It´s your and your partners dance, your art regardless of what others might think as long as you don´t interfere with the other dancers. Different music invites to different ways of dancing no matter what embrace you use. And so does your partner. But I would go for close embrace every day.
Thanks for your comment! I feel we are of one mind :)
Great talk! I would only notice that suggesting viewers to look on the examples and try to pick their preferred style for the music is not that useful and can be even misguided in some circumstances. My understanding of social tango is that it is not so much about how it looks from the outside (assuming some elegance theshold is passed), but how it feels inside the couple. And you cannot video the latter. Pugliese, even late one, can and does feel absolutely sublime in close embrace if you know how to employ the vast additional arsenal of connection and expression tools that close embrace has. I once had a private solely on how to dance pauses in close embrace in Pugliese type music, and it totally rocked.
Me as a long dutchman of 2 meters. Its also depends of the length of the Person !
I sometimes dance with little woman round the 1.60 meters. There is a close embrace difficult.
In the 21 years that I dance Tango. I have danced 6 times with a lady of my length. I have to dance in open embrace for the respect of the lady. I recognise it that the ladies like it how I do it , thats important !
Independent from the music: I dance in open embrace if the follower is about 25 cm smaller than me. If the follower is taller than me, I prefer open embrace. Greetings from Bonn/Köln.
Thank you for mentioning this! Height plays a HUGE role in your decision to do open embrace or close.
I am always dancing in open embrace, no matter the type of music.
I think we use to dance milonguero style when the music asks for this kind of embrace. Tango salón doesn´t need a lot of space in between but certainly if the ballroom is full of dancers you tend to a closer embrace. I prefer salon style with changes of energy and dynamics but only with the right partner, the right music and space enough.
The kind of embrace I would use would depend on what I feel in the partner. Regardless the embrace, the quality variation of this kind of music would be more important for me. There can be differences such as do you push on a beat? Or do you land on a beat? For me, it would depend on whether the beat has a sharp ending or a soft ending. Also, the speed of each step will not be the same. It can start out slow, then have a prompt landing, or it can be like a cat landing softly. This is what we normally refer to as the quality of a move. Personally, I like to dance to unfamiliar music if it moves me, when our emotion flows with the music, 9 out of 10 it will be the right move.
Thank you for the A/B comparisons between close and open. For me, close is better for the more dramatic stuff, pauses, and also for quicker more pronounced rhythm (which is why people tend to dance milonga in close I would imagine). Open is better for dynamics, accelerations/decelerations, flowing arpeggios.
For me, the difference between earlier and later is not that one should be one way and the other another. Its more a percentage. I will dance a higher percentage of close with Canaro and higher open with Pugliese. But not exclusively close or open with either of them.
Thank you! Appreciate your comment. Yes, ultimately it can be different every time depending on the person and the space, but I'm like you, most of the time I can't imagine dancing Canaro in open embrace, but sometimes...
It doesn't havecto be a hinary choice: personally, I like "fluid abrazo" : closed for caminatas abd open for ochos. It gives a lot of dynamism to the dance, specially on styles that are evolving like Divqsarlivir Pugliese.
Yes! I love fluid embrace :)
I prefer close embrace because I (ideally) feel the music in the followers body - also and especially with Pugliese. Although Pugliese may look more appropriate in an open embrace and can be a lot of fun, the feeling is important. See how Carlos Gavito danced Pugliese in close embrace. Example ua-cam.com/video/qOMqsPO6muM/v-deo.html
Thank you for sharing that! Love that video! And yes, I am with you. I like the way it looks when I dance Pugliese in open embrace, but I prefer to feel it in close embrace because I can feel more of my partner's body
I guess cats prefer open style. anyway. I liked your dance style better shown in left window with Canaro and I liked right window with Pugliese.
lol yeah, my cat has a lot of opinions. Thanks for sharing!