I really appreciate your point. And I share it mostly. This game might have some impact on the rpg. And that's the pont worrying me. Depending on how much success it will have, it might bring some players from other rpgs to vtm with this expectation. It might give paradox the idea that this kind of game is what wanted to play in v5. And this could lead to some design changes. Perhaps just for a future Bloodlines 2 ( I assume the VtM Bloodlines 25 Anniversary is released first) On the other hand, more game styles that are promoted might not be the worst. But this all could be a great fail. Even this might have some effect on the game.
From day one of its announcement, all I could think was, "wow...what a shitty, shameless cash grab." The more I see, the less I'm convinced otherwise. Nothing says "masquerade" better than vampires running around, unloading countless magazines of ammunition into each other in the digital age. The whole concept of this game is astonishingly stupid from a VTM point of view. People who stumble onto the rpg aren't going to stick around once they learn there's an actual game to be played, rather than just murder sprees to go on. It's disappointing and kinda sad that this even got made. I don't want the game to succeed. If it does, they'll of course make more. But at the same time, if it doesn't, there's a possibility they won't make ANY new video games, which could end up robbing us of something that's actually good. Kind of a weird....paradox.
I agree completely. Furthermore, it's not the first RPG that tried this and failed. Some remember maybe the Shadowrun multi-player shooter back in 2006 or whenever. It had basically just the name in common. Have a bad game and slap an IP on it and expect it to sell..
@@1IGG Hit the nail on the head there. Movie franchises are doing the same thing. Make a crappy movie, slap the Cloverfield label on it, market it as the next in the series. Media companies would rather try to sell something with recognition, instead of take a chance on something new. It's awful.
Yeah. It's just another BR game with a vampire aesthetic added on. The fact that the powers that be insist this is supposed to be fitting in directly with the TTRPG is a joke.
The way that the Sixth Tradition is presented in V5 makes it seem like diablerie as A-ok during a blood hunt. However, years of previously established lore don't really agree with: "Anything goes in the Blood Hunt, and if the one who kills the target drinks it dry and claims a part of their power - the terrible crime of diablerie - so be it." In V20 it says, " Many princes will even pardon those Kindred who perform diablerie on a vampire under the Lextalionis." However, if you go back to Revised edition, it states, "Diablerie is the ultimate crime; those that practice it are subject to the harshest punishments imaginable. It is as loathed and as feared as cannibalism in mortal society." Regardless, how can you be blood hunted as a base mode in the game and be blood hunted /AGAIN/ for violating the masquerade? It doesn't make sense. We can quibble about the specifics of rite of Destruction or just agree that the game modes / systems / etc. are... kinda nonsense.
@@TwoDTen thanks for your reply! Yes the game is a bit silly for sure and it doesn’t fit with what attracts most people to the tabletop game, (personal horror, plots and backstabbing, storytelling etc.) To my mind Shadows of NY is the best current VTM game by a country mile - and it’s arguably not even a game. And I’m not sure how well it is even possible to translate the tabletop experience directly to a AAA type game. My only point is that there are occasions where diablerie might be if not sanctioned but people might look the other way - the red list for example. I understand this game takes place following the convention of Prague and everything has hit the fan. It’s not supposed to represent vampire business as usual.
@@TwoDTen which makes sense. The older/lower Generations fear the upstarts becoming powerful. And the quickest way would be lowering one's generation via Diablerie (atleast that's how it worked in older versions).
Have to agree on this one for the most part. It seems like the result of a board meeting to decide how to make the failed mmorpg assets earn some money back. All my thoughts were is, I hope they don't sink, I don't want the franchise to die.
Great review and though I'll play it , it's hard not to see it as a great Underworld game, but hopefully they could build on it. If you check out Fortnite, the season events are the draw for fans, if the devs were to channel the story and plot lines in to events and meta plot hooks for things like new maps, clans, powers, ...GAROU!!!!! Could be amazing I like shooters as well as a WOD fan since ed1, idea of running around with in an FPS with a character based off a ttrpg character sounds like fun... Rather see a GTA style game for that or Shadowrun, but that's a rant for another time and love to hear your take on that
@@TwoDTen just found your channel and shadowrun and Wod are my old school favs.. amazing take on the world's.. And more shadowrun jackpoint content, hands down the best I've seen yet
Yeah - I'm not going to touch this with a bargepole... just like all of the other F2P Battle Royal games out there already (which will no doubt be better in most ways). I'm intrigued by the mixed party line with the Sabbat book "If you want to play supernatural dark-power wielding anti-heroes - go play something else"; and then... this... Sorry Paradox - this isn't for me.
this is a failed "cash grab", and you're right when you say it's not gonna gain new players for the actual game. just another "meh" game for us to lose our hype for Bloodlines 2. I don't even need to play this now. BTW, awesome shirt! Too bad we don't have an actual Battle Royale video game, like we do with movies/books/Manga. That would have been a lot better than this "Blood Hunt".
I am not here to defend it, but I also wait to play it myself. I wouldnt say its a total loss and supposedly there is more lore to get. I agree with the combat though, it could be closer to the original. Some stuff is an okay compromise (fighting anarchs, traversal) for this case of game. and they said there could be different game modes, maybe they do it better. The one thing I have to correct you on and I am surprised I have to actually, cause its right in the name of the title: The Anarchs are "invading" (no matter if true or propaganda), the night it plays in - a blood hunt on all of them was called (i bet a kneejerk reaction). in that all diablerie on the victims are allowed. not smooth, but well not all Kindred are. plus, not surprising if someone informed the SI as well. and i just heard the prince is missing.
*The one thing I have to correct you on and I am surprised I have to actually, cause its right in the name of the title: The Anarchs are "invading"* No, they aren't, at least not within the context of the Conclave of Prague, which is how this game was presented, at least in 2020 when it was announced. If you read the Camarilla book, they are pretty clear that Bell's actions were likely reactionary. If all the anarchs were blood hunted, why can characters be blood hunted /AGAIN/ during gameplay for breaking the masquerade? Also, how do you blood hunt *all anarchs*? Do anarchs have a badge that floats above them, showing they're anarchs? If the anarchs are making an assault, why don't they have weapons at the start of the game? Can you blood hunt all Brujah and still have Brujah in your sect? Prague is also a neutral city, FYI, not a Camarilla city.
@@TwoDTen cause I listen to the official news channel? There it was stated with the fact of the Prince missing. It's neutral, but still has a camerilla influence (and that predominantly till the conclave) Its a necessary perspective for the game to work. Everyone else is anarch while u play always as Camerilla. And it obviously means all anarchs in the city, not all together. Whatever happened broke down in chaos this night, together with other stuff like the SI. Bell had growing resentments as we can read in other texts and friction between camerilla and anarchs was high af. Its not surprising to me that this happened in ground zero, a dedicated former neutral zone. (Imagine what happened in Berlin, but amped up). So I what argue it fits perfectly lorewise.
A few things: 1. If the anarchs are "invading," as you say they are, that's fine. Just so we're both clear on this concept, this surprise attack happened *during* the conclave. Establishing an Elysium, or neutral ground of artistic and intellectual value, for kindred of the Camarilla to gather, reflect and leave their conflicts outside, is kind of meaningless since they were *already* doing that **at** the conclave. You don't establish Elysium and summon the Primogen to give quests when your sect founder is assassinated. Where's the Dux Bellorum? Where's the Imperator? Where are the Justicars and Archons? Why is the Sheriff on Elysium and not out murdering anarchs? 2. In all the V5 material, why haven't we heard about the murderous red cloud killing vampires and "The Entity?" This seems like RETCON to me. 3. *It's neutral, but still has a camerilla influence (and that predominantly till the conclave) Its a necessary perspective for the game to work* - I think you're extrapolating a great deal here. I don't think any of the previously written material actually lends this perspective any credence. Also, this assumes the game does work, which I don't think it does. What I'm trying to state is pretty simple: this looks to me like something the vampire IP was stretched to fit over, not the other way around. If you like it, that's totally cool. Like what you like. But as a piece of World of Darkness content, I think it's a big miss, regardless of the metaplot accuracy. Frankly, the meta is of less concern to me than the fact it's a damn Battle Royale vampire game. If you think it works, great! Play it.
@@TwoDTen like said, not defending it. And not played it yet, but following the news. And I don't bend things. Neutral ground doesn't mean it has no group in charge. It's stated as Camerilla City. And all this happens in one night. Its chaos. For thr conclave- I will wait what we get to know. If it doesn't make sense than I will go with that, but we don't know all yet. (Which is admittedly stupid) Also I didn't talk about thr elysium, as I agree so far with it. I just hate when people go down such hill with not all info (and still valid to say its BS as I agree) or wrong info. I just will wait and hope we get answers, so I personally say cool or screw it. Always say Paradox needs a frigging PR person. Wasn't meant to offend and sorry if I was bad at explaining (am autistic)
Hi Nate, really like your stuff. I've been paying attention to the BH since the alpha, and just wanted to clarify a few things from my understanding and talking in chats with the devs. The game doesn't take place in 2012, but closer to 2020/2021 and focuses on the Second Conclave of Prague. This explains why the Anarchs are just made up of Brujah and why the Elysium is in a different place. The lore for the game can be found by talking to NPCs and finding documents in the hub/elysium and in Prague itself.
*been paying attention to the BH since the alpha and just wanted to clarify a few things from my understanding and talking in chats with the devs. The game doesn't take place in 2012, but closer to 2020/2021 and focuses on the Second Conclave of Prague.* That is not how it was presented at the time the original trailer was released. What you are saying actually makes even /less/ sense because the Anarchs and Camarilla have called an uneasy truce since the Conclave (or convention) of Prague, according to the V5 corebook. Why would the Camarilla have another conclave in the same city that one of the supposed founders of the Camarilla was destroyed nine years ago? Also, the Anarchs aren't just made up of Brujah; they're made up of anyone who loses the round. Technically, everyone is Anarch and Camarilla. Also, I found no lore or unlockables in the lobby. I found plenty of things I could not read. If this is something you're presenting that you found in-game, that's even more disheartening because it makes no damn sense at all.
The reality of Bloodhunt will likely follow the lessons that we have learned in the MMO wars of the 2000s. If you are not Final Fantasy, WoW, Runescape or Guild Wars, your efforts will eventually be wasted as you just won't generate the numbers and spending to keep your servers running - let alone develop further to compete with everyone else that is going to fall down dead and be trampled by WoW. BR is much the same way, there is always a top game and everything trying to copy it will eventually wither away because it doesn't out perform the king. While yes, Fortnite stole the crown from PubG, who stole it from DayZ in 2017; these games never really recover from that loss and quickly had their active userbase dwindle once they got bored and moved onto newer games or went back to Fortnite/TF2/etc. Bloodhunt neither reinvents anything within the standards of the BR genre nor does it really give you a VtM experience. Its more like a generic imitation of itself like DARK was to Bloodlines -- except now Paradox is bootlegging itself for cheap profits.
@@TwoDTen lmfao. Ok yeah it is a blood hunt but there has to be more to it then that. A blood hunt normally gets called for some pretty gnarly stuff or to hide a big secret.
Good, I’m glad I’m not the only one who says “meh.”. Thanks for the honest review. The last thing I wanted was a Vampiresque looter shooter.
I really appreciate your point. And I share it mostly.
This game might have some impact on the rpg. And that's the pont worrying me. Depending on how much success it will have, it might bring some players from other rpgs to vtm with this expectation. It might give paradox the idea that this kind of game is what wanted to play in v5. And this could lead to some design changes. Perhaps just for a future Bloodlines 2 ( I assume the VtM Bloodlines 25 Anniversary is released first)
On the other hand, more game styles that are promoted might not be the worst.
But this all could be a great fail. Even this might have some effect on the game.
I have to admit, I chuckled when I saw your shirt.
From day one of its announcement, all I could think was, "wow...what a shitty, shameless cash grab." The more I see, the less I'm convinced otherwise. Nothing says "masquerade" better than vampires running around, unloading countless magazines of ammunition into each other in the digital age. The whole concept of this game is astonishingly stupid from a VTM point of view. People who stumble onto the rpg aren't going to stick around once they learn there's an actual game to be played, rather than just murder sprees to go on. It's disappointing and kinda sad that this even got made.
I don't want the game to succeed. If it does, they'll of course make more. But at the same time, if it doesn't, there's a possibility they won't make ANY new video games, which could end up robbing us of something that's actually good. Kind of a weird....paradox.
I agree completely. Furthermore, it's not the first RPG that tried this and failed. Some remember maybe the Shadowrun multi-player shooter back in 2006 or whenever. It had basically just the name in common. Have a bad game and slap an IP on it and expect it to sell..
@@1IGG Hit the nail on the head there. Movie franchises are doing the same thing. Make a crappy movie, slap the Cloverfield label on it, market it as the next in the series. Media companies would rather try to sell something with recognition, instead of take a chance on something new. It's awful.
agreed
Oh, look at that young, upcoming streamer :P Good job, Nate!
Thanks a bunch!
Yeah. It's just another BR game with a vampire aesthetic added on. The fact that the powers that be insist this is supposed to be fitting in directly with the TTRPG is a joke.
In my humble opinion, you look better without the trucker hat. :) Maybe Rachel agrees.
Well, hats are problematic because they don't tend to film well. Thankfully, she likes me with and without hats.
I thought when a prince calls a blood hunt diablerie is permitted.
It is
Nope. It often happens, but it's rarely sanctioned. The price needs to give specific dispensation to permit it.
The way that the Sixth Tradition is presented in V5 makes it seem like diablerie as A-ok during a blood hunt. However, years of previously established lore don't really agree with: "Anything goes in the Blood Hunt, and if the one who kills the target drinks it dry and claims a part of their power - the terrible crime of diablerie - so be it."
In V20 it says, " Many princes will even pardon those Kindred who perform diablerie on a vampire under the Lextalionis."
However, if you go back to Revised edition, it states, "Diablerie is the ultimate crime; those that practice it are subject to the harshest punishments imaginable. It is as loathed and as feared as cannibalism in mortal society."
Regardless, how can you be blood hunted as a base mode in the game and be blood hunted /AGAIN/ for violating the masquerade? It doesn't make sense. We can quibble about the specifics of rite of Destruction or just agree that the game modes / systems / etc. are... kinda nonsense.
@@TwoDTen thanks for your reply!
Yes the game is a bit silly for sure and it doesn’t fit with what attracts most people to the tabletop game, (personal horror, plots and backstabbing, storytelling etc.) To my mind Shadows of NY is the best current VTM game by a country mile - and it’s arguably not even a game. And I’m not sure how well it is even possible to translate the tabletop experience directly to a AAA type game.
My only point is that there are occasions where diablerie might be if not sanctioned but people might look the other way - the red list for example. I understand this game takes place following the convention of Prague and everything has hit the fan. It’s not supposed to represent vampire business as usual.
@@TwoDTen which makes sense. The older/lower Generations fear the upstarts becoming powerful. And the quickest way would be lowering one's generation via Diablerie (atleast that's how it worked in older versions).
Have to agree on this one for the most part.
It seems like the result of a board meeting to decide how to make the failed mmorpg assets earn some money back.
All my thoughts were is, I hope they don't sink, I don't want the franchise to die.
Great review and though I'll play it , it's hard not to see it as a great Underworld game, but hopefully they could build on it.
If you check out Fortnite, the season events are the draw for fans, if the devs were to channel the story and plot lines in to events and meta plot hooks for things like new maps, clans, powers, ...GAROU!!!!!
Could be amazing
I like shooters as well as a WOD fan since ed1, idea of running around with in an FPS with a character based off a ttrpg character sounds like fun...
Rather see a GTA style game for that or Shadowrun, but that's a rant for another time and love to hear your take on that
Thanks for saying. I might have commentary coming down the line.
@@TwoDTen just found your channel and shadowrun and Wod are my old school favs.. amazing take on the world's..
And more shadowrun jackpoint content, hands down the best I've seen yet
Yeah - I'm not going to touch this with a bargepole... just like all of the other F2P Battle Royal games out there already (which will no doubt be better in most ways). I'm intrigued by the mixed party line with the Sabbat book "If you want to play supernatural dark-power wielding anti-heroes - go play something else"; and then... this... Sorry Paradox - this isn't for me.
Yes! Very much this. I agree so hard I want to put my thumb through the screen!!
this is a failed "cash grab", and you're right when you say it's not gonna gain new players for the actual game. just another "meh" game for us to lose our hype for Bloodlines 2. I don't even need to play this now.
BTW, awesome shirt! Too bad we don't have an actual Battle Royale video game, like we do with movies/books/Manga. That would have been a lot better than this "Blood Hunt".
Good catch. It is a nice shirt.
I am not here to defend it, but I also wait to play it myself. I wouldnt say its a total loss and supposedly there is more lore to get. I agree with the combat though, it could be closer to the original. Some stuff is an okay compromise (fighting anarchs, traversal) for this case of game. and they said there could be different game modes, maybe they do it better.
The one thing I have to correct you on and I am surprised I have to actually, cause its right in the name of the title: The Anarchs are "invading" (no matter if true or propaganda), the night it plays in - a blood hunt on all of them was called (i bet a kneejerk reaction). in that all diablerie on the victims are allowed.
not smooth, but well not all Kindred are. plus, not surprising if someone informed the SI as well. and i just heard the prince is missing.
*The one thing I have to correct you on and I am surprised I have to actually, cause its right in the name of the title: The Anarchs are "invading"*
No, they aren't, at least not within the context of the Conclave of Prague, which is how this game was presented, at least in 2020 when it was announced. If you read the Camarilla book, they are pretty clear that Bell's actions were likely reactionary.
If all the anarchs were blood hunted, why can characters be blood hunted /AGAIN/ during gameplay for breaking the masquerade? Also, how do you blood hunt *all anarchs*? Do anarchs have a badge that floats above them, showing they're anarchs? If the anarchs are making an assault, why don't they have weapons at the start of the game? Can you blood hunt all Brujah and still have Brujah in your sect?
Prague is also a neutral city, FYI, not a Camarilla city.
@@TwoDTen cause I listen to the official news channel?
There it was stated with the fact of the Prince missing.
It's neutral, but still has a camerilla influence (and that predominantly till the conclave)
Its a necessary perspective for the game to work. Everyone else is anarch while u play always as Camerilla.
And it obviously means all anarchs in the city, not all together.
Whatever happened broke down in chaos this night, together with other stuff like the SI.
Bell had growing resentments as we can read in other texts and friction between camerilla and anarchs was high af.
Its not surprising to me that this happened in ground zero, a dedicated former neutral zone.
(Imagine what happened in Berlin, but amped up).
So I what argue it fits perfectly lorewise.
A few things:
1. If the anarchs are "invading," as you say they are, that's fine. Just so we're both clear on this concept, this surprise attack happened *during* the conclave. Establishing an Elysium, or neutral ground of artistic and intellectual value, for kindred of the Camarilla to gather, reflect and leave their conflicts outside, is kind of meaningless since they were *already* doing that **at** the conclave. You don't establish Elysium and summon the Primogen to give quests when your sect founder is assassinated. Where's the Dux Bellorum? Where's the Imperator? Where are the Justicars and Archons? Why is the Sheriff on Elysium and not out murdering anarchs?
2. In all the V5 material, why haven't we heard about the murderous red cloud killing vampires and "The Entity?" This seems like RETCON to me.
3. *It's neutral, but still has a camerilla influence (and that predominantly till the conclave) Its a necessary perspective for the game to work* - I think you're extrapolating a great deal here. I don't think any of the previously written material actually lends this perspective any credence. Also, this assumes the game does work, which I don't think it does.
What I'm trying to state is pretty simple: this looks to me like something the vampire IP was stretched to fit over, not the other way around. If you like it, that's totally cool. Like what you like. But as a piece of World of Darkness content, I think it's a big miss, regardless of the metaplot accuracy. Frankly, the meta is of less concern to me than the fact it's a damn Battle Royale vampire game. If you think it works, great! Play it.
@@TwoDTen like said, not defending it. And not played it yet, but following the news.
And I don't bend things. Neutral ground doesn't mean it has no group in charge. It's stated as Camerilla City.
And all this happens in one night. Its chaos.
For thr conclave- I will wait what we get to know. If it doesn't make sense than I will go with that, but we don't know all yet. (Which is admittedly stupid)
Also I didn't talk about thr elysium, as I agree so far with it.
I just hate when people go down such hill with not all info (and still valid to say its BS as I agree) or wrong info.
I just will wait and hope we get answers, so I personally say cool or screw it.
Always say Paradox needs a frigging PR person.
Wasn't meant to offend and sorry if I was bad at explaining (am autistic)
Hi Nate, really like your stuff. I've been paying attention to the BH since the alpha, and just wanted to clarify a few things from my understanding and talking in chats with the devs. The game doesn't take place in 2012, but closer to 2020/2021 and focuses on the Second Conclave of Prague. This explains why the Anarchs are just made up of Brujah and why the Elysium is in a different place. The lore for the game can be found by talking to NPCs and finding documents in the hub/elysium and in Prague itself.
*been paying attention to the BH since the alpha and just wanted to clarify a few things from my understanding and talking in chats with the devs. The game doesn't take place in 2012, but closer to 2020/2021 and focuses on the Second Conclave of Prague.*
That is not how it was presented at the time the original trailer was released. What you are saying actually makes even /less/ sense because the Anarchs and Camarilla have called an uneasy truce since the Conclave (or convention) of Prague, according to the V5 corebook. Why would the Camarilla have another conclave in the same city that one of the supposed founders of the Camarilla was destroyed nine years ago? Also, the Anarchs aren't just made up of Brujah; they're made up of anyone who loses the round. Technically, everyone is Anarch and Camarilla.
Also, I found no lore or unlockables in the lobby. I found plenty of things I could not read. If this is something you're presenting that you found in-game, that's even more disheartening because it makes no damn sense at all.
Yeah, It was rough to play. I was not a fan of the Beta.
The reality of Bloodhunt will likely follow the lessons that we have learned in the MMO wars of the 2000s. If you are not Final Fantasy, WoW, Runescape or Guild Wars, your efforts will eventually be wasted as you just won't generate the numbers and spending to keep your servers running - let alone develop further to compete with everyone else that is going to fall down dead and be trampled by WoW. BR is much the same way, there is always a top game and everything trying to copy it will eventually wither away because it doesn't out perform the king. While yes, Fortnite stole the crown from PubG, who stole it from DayZ in 2017; these games never really recover from that loss and quickly had their active userbase dwindle once they got bored and moved onto newer games or went back to Fortnite/TF2/etc. Bloodhunt neither reinvents anything within the standards of the BR genre nor does it really give you a VtM experience. Its more like a generic imitation of itself like DARK was to Bloodlines -- except now Paradox is bootlegging itself for cheap profits.
The heck. I thought Diablerie was Anathema to kindred.
How dare you think that? It’s like, totes acceptable if it’s during a blood hunt. Right? Cannibalism is the ultimate reward, said no one’s sire ever.
@@TwoDTen lmfao. Ok yeah it is a blood hunt but there has to be more to it then that. A blood hunt normally gets called for some pretty gnarly stuff or to hide a big secret.
Anarchs diablerize. So do Camarilla when there's a Blood Hunt. Diablerie is the reward for victors.
And six months from now when this garbage folds up Paradox will blame a lack of interest in the IP for the games failure.