How do you faithfully approach difficult doctrines in the Church? We'd love to hear your thoughts below. Due to the sensitive nature of this topic, Book of Mormon Central will be moderating this comment thread. Please be respectful of others and seek to build everyone's faith. Please don't degrade others beliefs, or state speculative doctrines. Thanks!
When the section on plural marriage was taught at seminary, I stayed in the car and slept. But really, I didn't want to hear the lesson. At BYU my friends and I skipped class on the day this section was taught. Even now I was avoiding this video. But I am glad I watched it. The presentation cleared up alot of misconceptions. I associated the plural marriage practices back then with a modern day lense, and viewed it as a form of exploitation. I dont know how JS and Hyrum had time to deal with many wives when they were already dealing with so much as it was. It is definitely a topic I am not comfortable with, but let me just say, I am not going to let this get in the way of the goodness I do know. I still believe in all the goodness JS and Hyrum did. I still know God is a loving God. And polygamy is not going to get in the way of all the goodness God has shown me. This is not something I would ever contemplate changing my religion for. The time for analyzing and getting the answers to this will come later. It was lovely to have Jenny on the show, what a beautiful perspective. There were so many things she said that provided beautiful insight. I love what Bro Griffin said about how there was an expectation on the Prophet to know everything. I also loved what Bro Halverson said about understanding the past as difficult as it is. I have so much admiration and respect for Emma. She did so much, put up with so much and sacrificed so much. As an LDS woman I am lucky and honoured to be a member of the RS group she organized. I just love the story that was mentioned at the end. That was a beautiful story. I actually got teary eyed listening to it. I am so happy for Emma. One day I will tell her how much her life has blessed mine. Thank you to the CFM team for approaching and presenting a contentious topic with open mindedness and with the guidance of the spirit ❤.
I tell you this, that subject right there is the reason why I'm the only member in our family now. My wife simply could not put up with that, and we are still together even after thirty years of this. And even myself still struggle with that subject. But it's like elder Oaks said, trust in the Lord all these things will work out.
What an amazingly insightful and real dialog by this gifted sister regarding plural marriage! Her scholarship as a historian has enriched her ability to share some personal experiences of Emma as she wrestled with this challenging commandment from God. The sister’s closing witness was full of faith that even though we may not completely understand this timely God-given law bringing valiant spirits to help build the Kingdom of God, it all worked out. I am eternally grateful many of my faithful ancestors were among the those who were inspired to participate and it was often the wives who encouraged their husbands to do so!
This was phenomenally done. A perfect example of how we do not have to hide from difficult conversations. We can handle it! And we need to work through these things together!
Thank you all. Jenny is the best! Not only is she faithful, intelligent, knowledgable and insightful but her heart made of gold! I was privileged to work with and get to know her as we served together in the temple.
I went into this week of Come Follow Me with a prayer that I would learn new ways to understand our church history and polygamy. This is the third podcast I’ve listened to about the subject and am very grateful for the perspectives of historians like Jenny Reeder, Brittany Chapman Nash, Dr. Kate Holbrook and others. It really helps! I am learning to respect these pioneers, believing that they lived this principle because of their faith in God and the commandments they received at the time. What a huge sacrifice! I love Joseph Smith and Emma. I love their legacy and everything that is important to me comes through the restored gospel. One thing I noticed though, in the podcasts I listened to no one mentions verses 62-65 and those are the verses I struggle with the most. They just don’t make sense. I would have liked to hear your perspective on these “yuck” verses.
I so enjoyed Sister Reeder sharing her knowledge and heartfelt testimony. Her sweet spirit just radiates from her. I would have enjoyed hearing more from her years of research and expertise. Thank you for another wonderful episode on such a sacred and delicate issue.
So grateful for Dr. Jenny and all the work she put in over the years to make my heart glad today. So good! I have struggled with this issue for years. I can't imagine what Joseph and Emma went through to live this commandment. I like that what I feel is true is what I know about this subject. In everything I don't know, I can have faith in the Savior and his orchestration of saving souls for a better purpose.
I love how honest our Church is about our past, rather it be good or bad. Honesty is so important. You all did a great job breaking this part of Church history down. Love the videos
You handled this difficult subject so well! I love Dr. Jenny! Too many people I have heard over the years have given all sorts of opinions about plural marriage and how it applies to all of us. I agree that how this will look in the eternities has not been revealed.
I am teaching this lesson tomorrow to my seminary students. You have blessed me with insights that will aid me in ways I could not have anticipated and I will conclude, just as you did, with Emma's final story. Thank you so much.
My profession was as an airline pilot! I can not begin to count the times a Flight Attendant came to the cockpit to see if we wanted a cup of coffee. Of course, I always turned that down, usually asked for a water if anything! One day after about the umpteenth time of saying no to the coffee the F/A asked if I was a Mormon or something, just trying to make a joke! When I answered that yes, I was in fact a Mormon, she was taken back a little as that apparently wasn't the answer she expected. Embarrassed, and in a scramble to redeem herself she stammered out "Oh, uh, ah, ah, well, ah, how many wives do you have?" My response was "The maximum number the church allows'! She stammered some more before asking, big eyed and incredulously, "REALLY? How many is that"? My answer, "One"! She took it, hook, line and sinker!
This was especially helpful to me (thank you Br Griffin and Sr Reeder). I had asked for guidance in understanding the section and your thoughts and ideas helped shift me from cynicism to skepticism to It is OK not to know. The caution about "presentism" is so needed today on an even broader scale than Section 132. Sister Reeder, you've made me want to learn more about Emma Smith. Thank you.
In my youth I had observed the absolute truth (absolute in my frame of reference) that the person performing baptism was previously baptized and held the priesthood required of him for that ordinance. When I read that Joseph and Oliver baptized each other I thought I saw a contradiction. I was viewing through the the lense of my experience. Of course, I latter learned that it was the prerogative of the author of that priesthood to direct the manner of Joseph and Oliver baptizing each other. These seeming conflicts are often resolved in our minds by the spirit if we seek and ask of God. That you for expanding our knowledge.
Personally, I really don’t like the polygamy issue. I feel for Emma and admire her for her faithfulness. I think it would be a hurtful thing to live through as well.
In response to the request for comments: I don't worry about it. I may pray about a particular question, but if no answer is forthcoming then I leave it be and just keep trying to faithfully live my life with the assumption that things will be made clear someday...maybe not til eternity.
Perhaps, one of my favorite "Come Follow Me" lessons in recent memory. All the lessons are good but this one had a special spirt about it specifically when talking about difficult and complex issues from our past as a church. Well done by Taylor and Jenny Reeder what a beautiful way to approach this sensitive subject. You guys hit it out of the park! I loved the honesty of each of them admitting we don't have all the answers and that is exactly where Faith comes into play. After watching this video my testimony has been strengthened greatly and most importantly I feel at peace even though I don't know all the answers. I am okay not knowing all the answers and this video help me realize that. Jenny Reeder is simply a beautiful soul. You can tell she has the pure love of Christ in her. Oh, and her knowledge is absolutely amazing! I could listen to her lecture all day long. I say we find a way for her to contribute more often to this show...... I think she is my favorite guest thus far! ......Touching and Powerful lesson!
Sister Reeder, I appreciated your insight and wisdom regarding this Chapter. So happy you were included. Of course, I always love Taylor and Tyler. Love learning the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
This was so beautifully done - I especially appreciated the discussion about how sometimes things pop up that make us pause and reflect about questions we have. My testimony has been strengthened by this lesson and I’m grateful for all those who worked on the production of this. THANK YOU!!!
This was one of the most insightful and educational episodes of everything that you guys have done, which says a lot. I’m not a novice in the Scriptures but I have to say I learned a lot of things today. Thank you so much for putting this together.
Thank you for this amazing class. I had struggle all my life with the stigma of Polygamy and always feel embarrassed to talk about the topic. I had miss understood Joseph and Emma. Today With this class i had finally understand more and thank you for the clear message you all had give today.
Thank you for tackling a tough discussion. I think it was done with class and gentleness. It’s a part of our history that I wish we could change but as Taylor said, all we can do is learn to accept it and forgive that it didn’t measure up to our expectations. I so appreciate your presentations this entire year. I’ve gotten more out of the doctrine and covenants than ever before. Thank you.
This discussion is absolutely beautiful. I appreciate the wonderful insights given to this difficult subject. Thank you, Sister Reeder for your testimony regarding Emma's redemption. It gives me hope that all of us can receive redemption through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
This was really a great, honest look at Section 132. I struggle greatly with our history of polygamy and appreciated your talking about our doubts coming in waves. Something I really wrestle with is, if we really don't know what the eternities look like regarding this topic, and that Elder Cook says, it is over, why then are men still able to be sealed to more than one woman, but not the other way around? It seems like a continuing patriarchal treatment of women. Thank you!
I'm glad that I won't have to worry about it here. But I trust Heavenly Father to keep his promisse of true happyness in the life to come, if we keep our covenents here. I truly believe that jeaulousy is something that is part of mortality and not at all part of the next life. I'll just leave it at that, and not worry. After all - don't we believe that Heavenly Father knows what he's doing? Thank's for your post.
I LOVED this presentation. It has been a GREAT support during my studies of what plural marriage is. I know to be a delicate and true commandment of God. My understanding through the years has increased, and with great assurance I can say now that I have been blessed to understand it even more. For this I am grateful. Thank you so much for your gift of teaching with the Spirit :-)
As to staying in Nauvoo, I thought that Emma was also caring for her aged mother-in-law. I think she did what she needed to do and she was a good woman!
Thank you so much for this useful discussion. Thank you for context and the Jacob verses and for explaining honestly why it can be a difficult point to get hung up on without breezing over it. Thank you for bringing your faith to the table. It's a pleasure to study with you!
My grandfather was a Methodist minister when he met my then 15 year old grandmother. My grandfather was 9 years her senior when they married she was 15 years old at the marriage date I never heard of any talk of it being inappropriate for the time. They were married in a Methodist church in Winthrop Arkansas in 1904. Mark Hopkins.
"...there is no such thing as an exalted bachelor", brings to my mind another unaddressed doctrine in currently available scripture, the sealing of the Savior to His eternal companion. We do sing about truth eternal tells me I have a Mother there, so it makes sense Jesus is not alone, either. I am one of the 20% with polygamy in my family tree, this and other difficult doctrines must be approached knowing we do not give up what we do know because of what we don't.
I am profoundly grateful for this presentation. Thank you. To answer your initial question, one approach I hope to take to address legitimate conflict/doubt is to list the different concepts and then to look to current apostles' words addressing these areas of concern. The part of this presentation, at the very end, about redemption is our saving grace. ❤️
What of those that don't believe Joseph Smith lived polygamy and that it started with Brigham Young. Like the Denver Snuffer group. Thanks for the honesty with this difficult subject, you bring things up that previously has been too sensitive to discuss openly.
I believe that section 129, 130 and 131 are mostly connected by the temple. Section 129 is a direct temple section from the endowment (where the more complete version is). 131 is certainly a very direct temple section, and 130 is mixed. The temple and the endowment was on the mind of Joseph, and that is why you see these types of instructions. At least that is how it appears to me. In fact, it appears that a large part of the D&C is pointing the saints to the temple.
Can you help me understand why men can be sealed to more than one woman after a wife has passed away but a woman can’t be sealed to more than one man at a time? One of my biggest (I know, irrational) fears is dying young and my husband then marrying a second wife (who hasn’t been sealed to anyone) in the temple. Of course I would want my family to be taken care of, and especially if our kids were still young, I would probably want them to have a step-mom to help raise them.
Many christians are freaking about Joseph's polygamy but I don't see anyone freaking about Jacob's polygamy and other bible stories hahahaaha I know many bible based people freaking about Elephants, silk etc in the book of mormon but I don't see anyone freaking about Jonah being swallowed by a whale and still alive and Water became a wine. Let's just all understand that God is moving in a mysterious ways. I do know Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. I know the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ. I know polygamy happened for the purpose of ME BEING BORN HERE ON WONDERFUL EARTH. PERIOD.
I couldn’t help but notice some similarities between this time in our church history and now. These Saints had to hold to the iron rod even though they did not understand, and held on through the chaos & persecution. Seeking the Lord for comfort & solace, not the confused conflicted world. I feel we are now being called to do the same.
Thank you so much for your presentation! Can you give us the sources for the stories you’re giving with Joseph’s conflict with Emma and Hyrum talking to Emma ect? Thank you this info is very helpful!
Also we do know what happens in the other tiers of the celestial kingdom - those who are appointed as angels, are they who received endowments, but were not married, and they go to the second highest section in the Celestial kingdom, and those who were baptized, but never received endowment, go to the third section, and are likewise appointed as angels. It follows the design of the levels in the temple, baptism on the lowest floor, endowment on the mid-floor, and sealing rooms on the highest floor. (In temples that are 3 stories)
Fun one!! I had a prompting or thought to watch this for FHE instead of a Hollywood Movie - just as cool with "twist and turns" as she says - and very good edification honestly some of this stuff you guys do should be required viewing :) not to flatter but yeah good presentation ... I thought
I love, love, love this lesson …. So difficult to take Section 132 … but Heavenly Father never will break His promise that everything will be understood towards the end. ❤️ By the way, I’ve been meaning to say that I love the music in the end of every lesson! So much crescendo! ❤️
I'm really stressed. My first marriage ended and I am only married for time currently, though we are not together as she hasn't been able to immigrate. The scriptures seem to say that if we can't have a temple marriage sealed by the holy spirit of promise, we won't make it to the highest degree of the Celestial glory. I am troubled that we have so little time on this earth.
i dont understand why people get torqued out over section 132; its pretty clear, you get a LOOoooooOONG dissertation on everything you have to be doing right BEFORE you even get to the idea of plural marriage and then we are told that it is by specific commandment not just something one decides to do on ones' own
Correction: at the 39 minute mark, Jenny Reeder mentions a sealing to the 14 year old daughter "Sarah". She is confusing Sarah Ann Whitney (17 years old at time of sealing) with Helen Mar Kimball (14 years old at time of her sealing to Joseph).
Would someone help me identify the Picture of Christ outstretched arms welcoming, as depicted in the conclusion story of Emma & Joseph? I would like to obtain such a print in our home for our family. I wonder where I could buy such a print (of this version)?
There is marriage for this life and then there is marriage in the eternities. I think most of Joseph's wives were sealed to him for the eternities but for this life it was in name only. As stated in the lesson, Joseph fathered many children with Emma and no children with his other wives. He was timid about plural marriage and used it primarily to bind families to him in the eternities more than anything.
Thank you for your wonderful insights on this subject, and for sharing your expertise as historians. You shared your recommendations on how to have conversations with members who struggle with this part of Church history, but how would you explain this to someone who is not LDS?
I know I was behind with the videos but I am very grateful to watch this one. There are few things that you mentioned which I never knew but I can say that Emma and Joseph had this amazing relationship and it was their love that carried them through despite the plural marriage law. Thank you so much.
Presentism is adhering to present-day attitudes, especially the tendency to interpret past events in terms of modern values and concepts. Taking past events out of their relevance and context is one of the biggest mistakes we make when trying to understand them. To comprehend and appreciate the practice of plural marriage during the early days of the Church, we must be able to overcome our twenty-first century presentism, limited understanding of the context, and narrow mortal view. Given the limited information we have today, it is nearly impossible for Church historians to answer every question, address every concern, or resolve every issue. Faith can help connect the dots when a thorough analytical study of past events can’t.
Hi, my name is David. I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Brazil. I love the contents of this channel because it has helped me to understand important points about the history of the church. I would just like to clarify a doubt about information that was given in the video, but precisely in the minute 36:54 Sister Jenny says that the word "Emma" (אמה) has its Hebrew counterpart the word "Mother" (אִמָא). When analyzing the characters in question, I found no similarity of meaning commented on in the video.
My understanding is that nearly everyone male and female were sealed to the prophets to insure a celestial glory up until Wilford Woodruff who was told by the lord to be sealed to his parents rather than the prophets. Many women were married to their husbands for time but sealed to Joseph for eternity. The principle was to reach the celestial kingdom. It was thought differently back then.
How do you faithfully approach difficult doctrines in the Church? We'd love to hear your thoughts below.
Due to the sensitive nature of this topic, Book of Mormon Central will be moderating this comment thread. Please be respectful of others and seek to build everyone's faith. Please don't degrade others beliefs, or state speculative doctrines. Thanks!
When the section on plural marriage was taught at seminary, I stayed in the car and slept. But really, I didn't want to hear the lesson. At BYU my friends and I skipped class on the day this section was taught. Even now I was avoiding this video. But I am glad I watched it. The presentation cleared up alot of misconceptions. I associated the plural marriage practices back then with a modern day lense, and viewed it as a form of exploitation. I dont know how JS and Hyrum had time to deal with many wives when they were already dealing with so much as it was. It is definitely a topic I am not comfortable with, but let me just say, I am not going to let this get in the way of the goodness I do know. I still believe in all the goodness JS and Hyrum did. I still know God is a loving God. And polygamy is not going to get in the way of all the goodness God has shown me. This is not something I would ever contemplate changing my religion for. The time for analyzing and getting the answers to this will come later. It was lovely to have Jenny on the show, what a beautiful perspective. There were so many things she said that provided beautiful insight. I love what Bro Griffin said about how there was an expectation on the Prophet to know everything. I also loved what Bro Halverson said about understanding the past as difficult as it is. I have so much admiration and respect for Emma. She did so much, put up with so much and sacrificed so much. As an LDS woman I am lucky and honoured to be a member of the RS group she organized. I just love the story that was mentioned at the end. That was a beautiful story. I actually got teary eyed listening to it. I am so happy for Emma. One day I will tell her how much her life has blessed mine. Thank you to the CFM team for approaching and presenting a contentious topic with open mindedness and with the guidance of the spirit ❤.
I tell you this, that subject right there is the reason why I'm the only member in our family now. My wife simply could not put up with that, and we are still together even after thirty years of this. And even myself still struggle with that subject. But it's like elder Oaks said, trust in the Lord all these things will work out.
What an amazingly insightful and real dialog by this gifted sister regarding plural marriage! Her scholarship as a historian has enriched her ability to share some personal experiences of Emma as she wrestled with this challenging commandment from God. The sister’s closing witness was full of faith that even though we may not completely understand this timely God-given law bringing valiant spirits to help build the Kingdom of God, it all worked out. I am eternally grateful many of my faithful ancestors were among the those who were inspired to participate and it was often the wives who encouraged their husbands to do so!
This was phenomenally done. A perfect example of how we do not have to hide from difficult conversations. We can handle it! And we need to work through these things together!
Thank you all.
Jenny is the best! Not only is she faithful, intelligent, knowledgable and insightful but her heart made of gold! I was privileged to work with and get to know her as we served together in the temple.
I went into this week of Come Follow Me with a prayer that I would learn new ways to understand our church history and polygamy. This is the third podcast I’ve listened to about the subject and am very grateful for the perspectives of historians like Jenny Reeder, Brittany Chapman Nash, Dr. Kate Holbrook and others. It really helps! I am learning to respect these pioneers, believing that they lived this principle because of their faith in God and the commandments they received at the time. What a huge sacrifice! I love Joseph Smith and Emma. I love their legacy and everything that is important to me comes through the restored gospel.
One thing I noticed though, in the podcasts I listened to no one mentions verses 62-65 and those are the verses I struggle with the most. They just don’t make sense. I would have liked to hear your perspective on these “yuck” verses.
Forgiveness is to abandon all hope of a better past. I love it! 💝
I so enjoyed Sister Reeder sharing her knowledge and heartfelt testimony. Her sweet spirit just radiates from her. I would have enjoyed hearing more from her years of research and expertise. Thank you for another wonderful episode on such a sacred and delicate issue.
So grateful for Dr. Jenny and all the work she put in over the years to make my heart glad today. So good! I have struggled with this issue for years. I can't imagine what Joseph and Emma went through to live this commandment. I like that what I feel is true is what I know about this subject. In everything I don't know, I can have faith in the Savior and his orchestration of saving souls for a better purpose.
I love how honest our Church is about our past, rather it be good or bad. Honesty is so important. You all did a great job breaking this part of Church history down. Love the videos
You handled this difficult subject so well! I love Dr. Jenny! Too many people I have heard over the years have given all sorts of opinions about plural marriage and how it applies to all of us. I agree that how this will look in the eternities has not been revealed.
This was AMAZING!!! Thank you for asking Jenny Reeder to join. She was fantastic! I learned so much today! Thank you all so much!
I am teaching this lesson tomorrow to my seminary students. You have blessed me with insights that will aid me in ways I could not have anticipated and I will conclude, just as you did, with Emma's final story. Thank you so much.
My profession was as an airline pilot! I can not begin to count the times a Flight Attendant came to the cockpit to see if we wanted a cup of coffee. Of course, I always turned that down, usually asked for a water if anything! One day after about the umpteenth time of saying no to the coffee the F/A asked if I was a Mormon or something, just trying to make a joke! When I answered that yes, I was in fact a Mormon, she was taken back a little as that apparently wasn't the answer she expected. Embarrassed, and in a scramble to redeem herself she stammered out "Oh, uh, ah, ah, well, ah, how many wives do you have?" My response was "The maximum number the church allows'! She stammered some more before asking, big eyed and incredulously, "REALLY? How many is that"? My answer, "One"! She took it, hook, line and sinker!
I’m an airline pilot too!
This was especially helpful to me (thank you Br Griffin and Sr Reeder). I had asked for guidance in understanding the section and your thoughts and ideas helped shift me from cynicism to skepticism to It is OK not to know. The caution about "presentism" is so needed today on an even broader scale than Section 132. Sister Reeder, you've made me want to learn more about Emma Smith. Thank you.
In my youth I had observed the absolute truth (absolute in my frame of reference) that the person performing baptism was previously baptized and held the priesthood required of him for that ordinance. When I read that Joseph and Oliver baptized each other I thought I saw a contradiction. I was viewing through the the lense of my experience. Of course, I latter learned that it was the prerogative of the author of that priesthood to direct the manner of Joseph and Oliver baptizing each other. These seeming conflicts are often resolved in our minds by the spirit if we seek and ask of God. That you for expanding our knowledge.
Personally, I really don’t like the polygamy issue. I feel for Emma and admire her for her faithfulness. I think it would be a hurtful thing to live through as well.
Bravo! Excellent discussion of a difficult topic. Very grateful to Sister Reeder for her historical insights.
In response to the request for comments: I don't worry about it. I may pray about a particular question, but if no answer is forthcoming then I leave it be and just keep trying to faithfully live my life with the assumption that things will be made clear someday...maybe not til eternity.
Very well said in your comment. - Chad James
Oh my, thank you all so much. This lesson gave me such peace and happiness!! I loved this!!
Perhaps, one of my favorite "Come Follow Me" lessons in recent memory. All the lessons are good but this one had a special spirt about it specifically when talking about difficult and complex issues from our past as a church. Well done by Taylor and Jenny Reeder what a beautiful way to approach this sensitive subject. You guys hit it out of the park! I loved the honesty of each of them admitting we don't have all the answers and that is exactly where Faith comes into play. After watching this video my testimony has been strengthened greatly and most importantly I feel at peace even though I don't know all the answers. I am okay not knowing all the answers and this video help me realize that. Jenny Reeder is simply a beautiful soul. You can tell she has the pure love of Christ in her. Oh, and her knowledge is absolutely amazing! I could listen to her lecture all day long. I say we find a way for her to contribute more often to this show...... I think she is my favorite guest thus far! ......Touching and Powerful lesson!
The best discussion I have heard on this section. Thank you for your insights and understanding that has helped me to understand.
Sister Reeder, I appreciated your insight and wisdom regarding this Chapter. So happy you were included. Of course, I always love Taylor and Tyler. Love learning the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
This was so beautifully done - I especially appreciated the discussion about how sometimes things pop up that make us pause and reflect about questions we have. My testimony has been strengthened by this lesson and I’m grateful for all those who worked on the production of this. THANK YOU!!!
This was one of the most insightful and educational episodes of everything that you guys have done, which says a lot. I’m not a novice in the Scriptures but I have to say I learned a lot of things today. Thank you so much for putting this together.
Thank you for this amazing class. I had struggle all my life with the stigma of Polygamy and always feel embarrassed to talk about the topic. I had miss understood Joseph and Emma. Today With this class i had finally understand more and thank you for the clear message you all had give today.
The sweet ending was so beautiful and tearful.....i love that!
Thank you for tackling a tough discussion. I think it was done with class and gentleness. It’s a part of our history that I wish we could change but as Taylor said, all we can do is learn to accept it and forgive that it didn’t measure up to our expectations. I so appreciate your presentations this entire year. I’ve gotten more out of the doctrine and covenants than ever before. Thank you.
This discussion is absolutely beautiful. I appreciate the wonderful insights given to this difficult subject. Thank you, Sister Reeder for your testimony regarding Emma's redemption. It gives me hope that all of us can receive redemption through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
This was really a great, honest look at Section 132. I struggle greatly with our history of polygamy and appreciated your talking about our doubts coming in waves. Something I really wrestle with is, if we really don't know what the eternities look like regarding this topic, and that Elder Cook says, it is over, why then are men still able to be sealed to more than one woman, but not the other way around? It seems like a continuing patriarchal treatment of women. Thank you!
I'm glad that I won't have to worry about it here. But I trust Heavenly Father to keep his promisse of true happyness in the life to come, if we keep our covenents here. I truly believe that jeaulousy is something that is part of mortality and not at all part of the next life. I'll just leave it at that, and not worry. After all - don't we believe that Heavenly Father knows what he's doing? Thank's for your post.
Thank you for this enlightening discussion. Great!
Thank you Jenny for those beautiful insight. Interesting!!!! 🙃♥️
This was the best exploration of polygamy and these scriptures I've ever seen
Thank you! This was so beautifully presented! 👍🌺
A difficult, but really well explained lesson! Thank you all!❤🇨🇦
Wonderful, beautiful, thank you ❤
I LOVED this presentation. It has been a GREAT support during my studies of what plural marriage is. I know to be a delicate and true commandment of God. My understanding through the years has increased, and with great assurance I can say now that I have been blessed to understand it even more. For this I am grateful. Thank you so much for your gift of teaching with the Spirit :-)
Watching and learning, from Cebu, Philippines
Great lesson about polygamy. Thank you for all your preparation! Loved hearing from the historian as well! Great combination.
As to staying in Nauvoo, I thought that Emma was also caring for her aged mother-in-law. I think she did what she needed to do and she was a good woman!
I agree and she did what she felt was right for her.
…..again, thank you Zander for your technical talent and abilities. It brings the discussion to life
Thank you so much for this useful discussion. Thank you for context and the Jacob verses and for explaining honestly why it can be a difficult point to get hung up on without breezing over it. Thank you for bringing your faith to the table. It's a pleasure to study with you!
Thank you! Very insightful ! Loved the perspective and análisis your gave to this touchy subject.
Beautiful story about Emma 29:23 and 59:31
My grandfather was a Methodist minister when he met my then 15 year old grandmother. My grandfather was 9 years her senior when they married she was 15 years old at the marriage date I never heard of any talk of it being inappropriate for the time. They were married in a Methodist church in Winthrop Arkansas in 1904. Mark Hopkins.
Awesome and Great choice to have a Historian - Jenni to teach!
Thanks brothers for the amazing class 🙏 thanks for helps me to understand the gospel 🙏 🙌 ❤
"...there is no such thing as an exalted bachelor", brings to my mind another unaddressed doctrine in currently available scripture, the sealing of the Savior to His eternal companion. We do sing about truth eternal tells me I have a Mother there, so it makes sense Jesus is not alone, either. I am one of the 20% with polygamy in my family tree, this and other difficult doctrines must be approached knowing we do not give up what we do know because of what we don't.
Well said! 'do not give up what we know because of what we don't'
I loved this episode-a thoughtful discussion that provided insights that helped me with my questions. Thanks particularly to Tyler and Jenny!
Thank you so much for all of your beautiful spiritual lessons!
Such a wonderful channel to enjoy hearing all the messages and comments from everyone. - Chad James
Excellent discussion! This continues to be my favorite Come Follow Me site!
Thank you for section 129 thru 132 it was good I learned some good things, thanks for great job.
How I love Jenny!!!! she is the best!!!!
I am profoundly grateful for this presentation. Thank you. To answer your initial question, one approach I hope to take to address legitimate conflict/doubt is to list the different concepts and then to look to current apostles' words addressing these areas of concern. The part of this presentation, at the very end, about redemption is our saving grace. ❤️
What of those that don't believe Joseph Smith lived polygamy and that it started with Brigham Young. Like the Denver Snuffer group. Thanks for the honesty with this difficult subject, you bring things up that previously has been too sensitive to discuss openly.
The final words of Brigham Young were also "Joseph, Joseph, Joseph" just as Emma said. Joseph came to usher them both home.
I admire Emma ❤️♥️
So beautiful. Thank you so much. 💗
Wow! Thank you so much! I really needed to hear this!!! God bless you all.
Thank you!
I believe that section 129, 130 and 131 are mostly connected by the temple. Section 129 is a direct temple section from the endowment (where the more complete version is). 131 is certainly a very direct temple section, and 130 is mixed. The temple and the endowment was on the mind of Joseph, and that is why you see these types of instructions. At least that is how it appears to me. In fact, it appears that a large part of the D&C is pointing the saints to the temple.
I gotta start to get into a mindset of listening to these more, they are awesome!
Its a sensitive topic my doubts cleared off in this lesson .thanks for sharing your wisdom 🥰
Can you help me understand why men can be sealed to more than one woman after a wife has passed away but a woman can’t be sealed to more than one man at a time? One of my biggest (I know, irrational) fears is dying young and my husband then marrying a second wife (who hasn’t been sealed to anyone) in the temple. Of course I would want my family to be taken care of, and especially if our kids were still young, I would probably want them to have a step-mom to help raise them.
I agree that this needs to be addressed. This is a major sticking point in the understanding of the end of polygamy.
Actually they have started sealing at least some women to multiple husbands. Not sure the criteria but I know it has happened.
I would love to hear some thoughts on this as well.....
I haven't watched the whole video yet, but I was wondering who said, "Forgiveness is to abandon all hope for a better past." Please and thank you
So very good! So very helpful!
Thank you!
Many christians are freaking about Joseph's polygamy but I don't see anyone freaking about Jacob's polygamy and other bible stories hahahaaha
I know many bible based people freaking about Elephants, silk etc in the book of mormon but I don't see anyone freaking about Jonah being swallowed by a whale and still alive and Water became a wine.
Let's just all understand that God is moving in a mysterious ways.
I do know Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. I know the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ. I know polygamy happened for the purpose of ME BEING BORN HERE ON WONDERFUL EARTH. PERIOD.
I couldn’t help but notice some similarities between this time in our church history and now. These Saints had to hold to the iron rod even though they did not understand, and held on through the chaos & persecution. Seeking the Lord for comfort & solace, not the confused conflicted world. I feel we are now being called to do the same.
I appreciated so much the honesty of this lesson.
I love the way you explain this class thanks sister for you great spirit and you testimony thanks for this class
I miss it when you don't say:
"know that you're loved"
Thank you so much for your presentation! Can you give us the sources for the stories you’re giving with Joseph’s conflict with Emma and Hyrum talking to Emma ect? Thank you this info is very helpful!
Also we do know what happens in the other tiers of the celestial kingdom - those who are appointed as angels, are they who received endowments, but were not married, and they go to the second highest section in the Celestial kingdom, and those who were baptized, but never received endowment, go to the third section, and are likewise appointed as angels. It follows the design of the levels in the temple, baptism on the lowest floor, endowment on the mid-floor, and sealing rooms on the highest floor. (In temples that are 3 stories)
So spiritual😇
Fun one!! I had a prompting or thought to watch this for FHE instead of a Hollywood Movie - just as cool with "twist and turns" as she says - and very good edification honestly some of this stuff you guys do should be required viewing :) not to flatter but yeah good presentation ... I thought
I love, love, love this lesson …. So difficult to take Section 132 … but Heavenly Father never will break His promise that everything will be understood towards the end. ❤️
By the way, I’ve been meaning to say that I love the music in the end of every lesson! So much crescendo! ❤️
Actually the Hebrew word for "mama" is "eema," not "emma." "Emma" means "whole" or "universal."
Excellent! Loved it. Jennifer R. is incredible! Thank you guys!
Thank you for explaining some things that I have questioned in the past.
I'm really stressed. My first marriage ended and I am only married for time currently, though we are not together as she hasn't been able to immigrate. The scriptures seem to say that if we can't have a temple marriage sealed by the holy spirit of promise, we won't make it to the highest degree of the Celestial glory. I am troubled that we have so little time on this earth.
i dont understand why people get torqued out over section 132; its pretty clear, you get a LOOoooooOONG dissertation on everything you have to be doing right BEFORE you even get to the idea of plural marriage and then we are told that it is by specific commandment not just something one decides to do on ones' own
I greatly appreciate that you did not avoid the topic of plural marriage and validated concerns on the sensitive topic.
That was wonderful! Thank you.
JENNY ... THANK YOU ! THANK YOU !! THANK YOU !!!!
Correction: at the 39 minute mark, Jenny Reeder mentions a sealing to the 14 year old daughter "Sarah". She is confusing Sarah Ann Whitney (17 years old at time of sealing) with Helen Mar Kimball (14 years old at time of her sealing to Joseph).
Would someone help me identify the Picture of Christ outstretched arms welcoming, as depicted in the conclusion story of Emma & Joseph? I would like to obtain such a print in our home for our family. I wonder where I could buy such a print (of this version)?
What is the book in Jenny's hand?
How can I double like this? 😂 it was very insightful!
There is marriage for this life and then there is marriage in the eternities. I think most of Joseph's wives were sealed to him for the eternities but for this life it was in name only. As stated in the lesson, Joseph fathered many children with Emma and no children with his other wives. He was timid about plural marriage and used it primarily to bind families to him in the eternities more than anything.
Answered some of the questions I had. Thank you.
Please bring her back….often.
Thank you for your wonderful insights on this subject, and for sharing your expertise as historians. You shared your recommendations on how to have conversations with members who struggle with this part of Church history, but how would you explain this to someone who is not LDS?
I know I was behind with the videos but I am very grateful to watch this one. There are few things that you mentioned which I never knew but I can say that Emma and Joseph had this amazing relationship and it was their love that carried them through despite the plural marriage law. Thank you so much.
Presentism is adhering to present-day attitudes, especially the tendency to interpret past events in terms of modern values and concepts. Taking past events out of their relevance and context is one of the biggest mistakes we make when trying to understand them. To comprehend and appreciate the practice of plural marriage during the early days of the Church, we must be able to overcome our twenty-first century presentism, limited understanding of the context, and narrow mortal view. Given the limited information we have today, it is nearly impossible for Church historians to answer every question, address every concern, or resolve every issue. Faith can help connect the dots when a thorough analytical study of past events can’t.
Hi, my name is David. I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Brazil. I love the contents of this channel because it has helped me to understand important points about the history of the church.
I would just like to clarify a doubt about information that was given in the video, but precisely in the minute 36:54
Sister Jenny says that the word "Emma" (אמה) has its Hebrew counterpart the word "Mother" (אִמָא). When analyzing the characters in question, I found no similarity of meaning commented on in the video.
My understanding is that nearly everyone male and female were sealed to the prophets to insure a celestial glory up until Wilford Woodruff who was told by the lord to be sealed to his parents rather than the prophets. Many women were married to their husbands for time but sealed to Joseph for eternity. The principle was to reach the celestial kingdom. It was thought differently back then.
Would you like to hear you cover 132 and cover vs 62 to the end of the section of 132
Do you have a reference please, for Elder Cook's broadcast from Nauvoo that we can read?