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Great analysis I have a suggestion for the next episode of Analyzing Evil how about a video on Professor Pericles the main antagonist from Scooby-Doo Mystery Incorporated he's a parrot manipulated by the Evil Entity to unleash his selfish desires betraying his friends and seeking to destroy Crystal Cove and kill 4 teenagers and their dog to prevent them from stoping his plan. Pericles is highly intelligent cunning and sadistic and would be a great addition to the Analyzing Evil series.
Something random and subtle I love about The Vile Eye, is whenever the video starts, theres always one second of silence, and as the character speaks we hear 'Hello Everyone" Its so consistent and brilliant. Been a fan for a long time! Keep up the amazing work!
This is something I’ve subconsciously liked about his video and I didn’t realise it until you stated it. Also the fact that he has a very calm and soothing voice so it blends perfectly in his introductions.
If David had more screen time you could easily make an "Analyzing Evil" vid dedicated to him. Easily one of the most despicable monsters in recent media.
David tried to use Ellie's body without her consent and Joel arrived too late to help her. The fireflies tried to use Ellie's body without consent and Joel stopped them.
@@kevburke I like to think he had to save her from herself and what she was doing, up till this point in the story she's already killed but not in such a brutal way. In the show she saves herself, she leaves the building and doesn't need rescued, the difference is, in the game, Joel has to physically stop her, in a metaphoric way he saves her.
@@markgaumee I think the implication was that she was going to be sexually assaulted, which he would have obviously wanted to prevent. It was less ambiguous in the show, I guess..
@@kevburke Yes it was because I played through part I and I knew David was an evil bastered but it wasn't until I watched video essays on the game that I realized what David's true intentions with Ellie were, which made me sick to my stomach thinking about it.
Regarding Marlene and the Fireflies, it's also worth mentioning that in the show she promised Joel a whole bunch of guns and supplies if he delivered Ellie. Yet when he actually did, despite telling him she owed him big for doing it, she commands soldiers to escort him off the premises and makes it clear she's totally going back on her deal. He was about to leave with nothing. It struck me that the show was making Joel's next decision slightly less ambiguous, painting Marlene as a liar who couldn't be trusted. Not like that justifies Joel killing everyone, but it changes Marlene from a person who is just trying to save humanity and making a tough call to a person who has screwed over the main character for seemingly no reason while doing it.
Even worse when we as the audience know from the first two episode openers that a cure or vaccine can never be produced for fungal infection, not to mention it would've done very little in a world where infected bite, claw, and rip their victims apart.
@@BrianWatkins9000 another point people fail to realize too is that Ellie is a child, one who would want to go through with it only because she’s letting her trauma guilt her into doing it. Which people would be fine with a literal child to consent to killing herself but wouldn’t condone having her consent to anything else questionable with her age but anyways. She feels she would have to with everyone close to her dying. she feels that’s her purpose when really she’s a friend, daughter, and somebody to those around her. Along with multiple reasons on why a cure wouldn’t even be viable, along with its very slim chance of working, isn’t thought about since she’s a child. She doesn’t realize that the world is already screwed to a point of no return. It’ll take very slow progress and is doable without a cure that won’t even exist or will do little and be misused. If the fireflies decided to actually learn about her, they would realize this. Ofc Joel didn’t really think it in this way either but it still stands on why Joel made the right decision tbh.
Part of me thinks that Marlene wanted to preserve the idea that the Fireflies were righteous and fighting for a better future, especially towards the end where they were all grasping at straws just to keep their group together. It also wasn’t even them that brought Ellie across the country, but Joel. A person who’s seen how they really operate. So she tried to dispose of him for two reasons: First, when and *IF* they developed a cure, she wanted all the credit to go to the Fireflies so they could use it as leverage to draw more to her cause. Joel is a third party, with no allegiance to their cause and is someone who could give an account that goes against whatever narrative the Fireflies may generate in the wake of their potential cure. And second, she clearly didn’t want to risk Joel possibly persuading Ellie not to go through with it, especially if the cure would cost her her life. Joel never had much faith in the Fireflies. I imagine it’s a story he’s heard before to no avail. The thing Marlene probably didn’t expect was how close Joel and Ellie would get. Marlene’s only known Joel as a ruthless killer, and with the prospect of a reward, I think she expected him to keep Ellie at arms length. TLoU (part 1 at least) tells such a well articulated and morally grey story. Joel’s actions at the end of the game are definitely morally questionable, but given the context of the situation they were by all accounts very human. Excellent video once again, Vile Eye! I always enjoy your uploads. 🙂
Loved that you didn't end the video with contributing the tragedy of the Last of Us to evil like most of your other videos. It being because we're human is a far more sobering, painful truth: a broken world does not care about our love, but we will still do anything for the things we love. Such is the Last of Us' message. Great video!
I agree. Tommy seems like a morally good character. He is a nice guy who fought in the military before the apocalypse because he wanted to help and after the apocalypse he joined the Fireflies for the same reason. He describes what Joel and him did as a nightmare and not worth it, showing he has a lot of guilt and probably wasn't fully responsible for any attrocities he may have been apart of. Yet, after the events of the second game (trying to avoid spoilers) he becomes the type of man who has no problem murdering and torturing innocent WLF soldiers to get revenge, arguably evil. After, he guilt trips a woman who is happy with a family to put her life in danger to satisfy his persuit for revenge.
Reminded me of the scene where Joel and Ellie saw a man claiming he was injured and Ellie wanted to help him, but Joel knew it was play. Later on after the ambush, it mentions where survivors were driving down the same path and how the ambush most likely had done the same thing to trick them into “helping” just to strike. Same thing for Walter from the Walking Dead Game. A man of character and how he helps anyone without thinking. This example being Bonnie. Walter believed that the world hasn’t gone to crap and just wanted everyone work together, just to be shot by Carter later…
@@DANtheMANofSIPA I agree with nearly everything you're saying, although saying that Ellie was happy with Dina and JJ at the farm is far from the truth. Of course she wants to be happy, but it's clear she is still heavily traumatised and filled with PTSD. That's not to say that leaving Dina and JJ was the right choice for Ellie, at the end of the day it's not as simple as Ellie being happy or sad, or her decisions being right or wrong.
there's a book called Kill Anything That Moves that reflects on Vietnam and the events that took place. it has many veteran interviews many of whom were guilty of heinous actions and rewarded for it. some use the interviews as a sort of release. it's very interesting and shows true that statement is. it's also incredibly dark so fair warning if you decide to read it as it's essentially a book of atrocities.
I love the idea of tackling morally grey characters. If I had to suggest a character for this type of video, I'd love to see an analyzing evil of Shinji Ikari (Evangelion). Now I'm not saying he's evil, far from it I think he's one of the greatest heroes ever created, one cannot deny how morally grey he is until the end, I'd love to see your stance on him, or his world under an "analyzing evil: Evangelion" video. Either way, I love what you do man
the show has key differences from the game. for example, Bill's partner really hated Bill, he preferred death over another second second with Bill; and Bill didn't kill himself during the events of the game
There is actually evidence in The Last of Us 1 that points to Marlene planning to kill you and not give you any of the supplies she promised you, In fact in the first game there isn't even a guarantee that the procedure will even work, and given the Fireflies' treatment of Joel and Ellie, I am inclined to agree quite heavily that Joel isn't really a villain.
@@headcrap6152 but from his perspective he's leading this group into a newer world. Again you got to look at things from other people side even if you think that person side is evil
@@animesempai0 yes evil is a perspective but their are objectively bad things even in the most dire situations.... no matter what you are evil if you decide to eat another human being.... no matter what that is evil.... no matter what cold blooded murder is objectively evil... but their is necessary evils like they pointed out....
I would argue that if Joel just went with it and allowed the fire flies to kill Ellie despite what they went through together and what Ellie means to him, that would have been a pretty cold thing to do and it would go against pretty much everything that makes us human. You could argue that would have been an evil thing to do?
The sudden glow when you receive a notification of Analyzing Evil and hear that chiliing 'Hello Everyone'. Still waiting for Sean Nokes and The Caller from Phone Booth ( specifically because Kiefer Sutherland also has that chilling voice ). Keep Up The Good Work 👊
Really enjoyed this episode! I would like to see your take on analyzing evil in the world of Spec Ops: The Line or at least the character of Captain Martin Walker. While it does carry the same inspirations from the Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now, its critiques on the nature of military shooters provides a deeper subtext in relation to the players moral context.
It's of my opinion that Joel did nothing wrong in saving Elle. He was a man caught up in an extraordinarily dire and tragic situation. He had already lost his daughter at the start of the story, did what he HAD TO DO to survive, became a surrogate father to Elle and grew to love her as a daughter. He then did what he HAD TO DO to save Elle's life. There was no guarantee that the procedure to remove the cordyceps from Elle's brain would conclude with a successful vaccine. There is, however, a certain guarantee that the procedure would result in Elle's death. Joel's actions in this case are completely understandable to me as a man who has no children of his own, but is in the process of adopting two teenage girls. If put in Joel's situation, I would have reacted the same way. On top of this, I'll wager that anyone who disagrees doesn't have children of their own.
*I think The Last of Us is about how Love can make us do crazy things and Elle and Joell combat and support that theme exactly can't wait for Season 2!*
I told my husband about the title of this video being a coverage of the whole show, not just a specific character, and he just said "Yeah, that tracks." A comparison that I keep thinking of for Joel is the character of Bigby Wolf from the comic series Fables. Bigby is the Big Bad Wolf of legend in human form, now serving his community as a sheriff - but before the Amnesty that got the fairy tale community built, he wasn't just a physical predator, he was a sadist, and people still remember that about him. Joel's "monster in plain sight" reputation definitely reminds me of that.
You analyzed the evil of the cordyceps I would love to see similar analysis of other non human entities Be the Alien, the predator, the marker/brethren moons from Dead Space, the Thing, the aliens from War of the worlds, etc
The Marker/Moons are absolutely evil, they take great delight in the suffering of the main character, and presumably, all their untold victims, being turned into them.
Quite possibly one of the most controversial endings in video game history and one of the greatest games ever made. The HBO show was also surprisingly a great adaptation. Wished their was a bit more infected. Gonna be enjoying this video
@@Oppen1945 yeah i dont really understand why so many people think its controversial or even evil. He thought of her as a daughter, why wouldn't he be willing to kill for her? Hes done it how many times to get her there? Also a single surgeon was never going to create a cure or vaccine. So many people just glance over that.
@@Oppen1945 I would say it was. And yes it links to the events in part 2 which is even more controversial than the previous. I will link both into one when I say this that I’ve seen many who agree with Joel’s actions whilst many others say Joel was completely in the wrong and His fate was deserved.
@@General_D1 the thing is the people who tend to be against Joel's actions like a hand full missed out on information that the whole thing with the cure wasn't even 100% gonna work. I remember when I heard that there was a tape that admitted that so I. The end would have really done anything, not really
@@iammaximumstupied I agree with you, Marlene herself wasn’t sure about the cure in the show. In the game there was evidence that there were many like Ellie who all died. And Marlene even was gonna set up Joel to be killed in a audio recording. Even if the cure did work. 20 years of damage through zombie infestation, fall off economies and technology etc. the world simply cannot revive itself.
Another great video by The Vile Eye. I do agree with Joel not being evil. Also I think that it’s important to think about The possibility that the world still would’ve been with violent bandits and tyrants even if they developed a cure. Think about it with a cure have really had fixed everything in the world at that point. I truly don’t think so. The game is established that a lot of people have turned bad. I’ve been living bad for a very long time. There would’ve been tons of next steps to fixing the world besides developing a cure. Also, people didn’t say a joke killed a bunch of people when he didn’t have to but I think you have to consider the fact that at least in the show almost every antagonist character went after Joe and Ellie or Henry because they wanted revenge. So, in my opinion, it seemed to me like the show was stating that if you left any of your attackers alive, they would come back with more people and try to kill you again.
Malvo woulkd be a boring video. Malvo is literally purely just a cartoon villain for Lester to do something throughout the season. He has no story, no motivation, and no complexities. He goes around while killing everyone for no reason while his actor does the most fake "mysterious assassin" persona I've ever seen.
@@elsienova4269 He works for a brief episode, which this channel has covered with villains like that. Personally, I think Mike Milligan is far more interesting.
Oh I love this analysis. "The Last of Us" isn't just a great game, but one of the best stories I've ever seen unfold in visual media. The moral ambiguity of each character is a great exploration of mankind at its most desperate. And Joel's final choice in the end of the story is one that truly shows what a monster he is to some, but he's also makes a very understandable choice in the eyes of others. Kudos Vile Eye! I'd like to see one on Trevor Phillips from Grand Theft Auto V. He's an unpredictably violent and gruesome sociopath. He's a bank robber, serial killer, and cannibal in a modern society. He's committed nearly every crime there is in the story, and he's one of the protagonists.
Killing it with the content Mr. Vile. For future analysis I would recommend, as far as another video game dealing with a pandemic, is The Healing Church from Bloodborne.
Yes, I agree, Because that world apocalyptic world can really change a person and drive them down into dark places like Joel, Whose down terrible things to humanity, But tries to do good.
Joel killed the fireflies because whether Ellie consented or not they would have still hunted them down. Probably would have killed Joel for retaliation.
lol that's still 100% NOT true at all as there's no prove that the fireflies would have "Still hunted them down" AT ALL in ANY way. Of course they would have "killed joel for retaliation" because joel killed their own people, that should be obvious.
Been loving your videos man, thank you for making these. If you're open to suggestions, there's a British TV show called Utopia with quite a few characters you might find interesting ;)
Its probably worth pointing out on the subject of the fureflies morality that theres a log that says theyve done this to other immune people before, so theres absolutely no garuntee itll work
In such a world like The Last of Us, there is only survival. But in such a world, one can find something so precious and beautiful, and be determined to protect it. Great video. I hope the next thing you analyze is The Last of Us Part II as a whole such as The Washington Liberation Front (WLF), The Seraphites, and the Rattlers.
@Emperor Palpatine they improved on many of the mechanics of the game and expanded on the combat, graphics, presentation, etc. So that’s not true. The Abby stuff is controversial and has been discussed for years but it was done for a clear intention and was still mostly quality character building and gameplay. It is certainly not a bad game. A tragedy, controversial? Yes.
@@DirectFireDave 'it was done for a clear intention and was still mostly quality character building and gameplay'. Seriously? The 'character building' was ass along with the whole story which just comes off as fanfiction. And just because something has 'a clear intention' doesn't mean it was a good one. The only way one can appreciate TLOU2's story is if their a willing idiot like the game wants you to be.
Fuck yeah! Glad to see you cover TLOU! Especially can’t wait to see your video on Part 2, although I imagine you’ll wait till after the series catches up to make that one. In the meantime, can we get a video on Lorne Malvo from Fargo? Watching your Judge Holden video made me think of him, since he’s heavily implied to be the Devil.
Likewise, others would wait in concern how far the adaptation would be for PT2. Excited, as news/rumors were, it'll take multiple seasons to flesh out how complicated it is.
The Moral Ambiguity in this show and game is so compelling. I feel like if this is how the world end it is an accurate depiction of how many people would act
It felt like Marlene just abandoned Joel after the drop, like no compensation? just his bag to the side of the road?? Thatd also piss me off on top of killing Ellie
that and her effortless sacrifice of Ellie, a girl she's known forever, shows she's not as benevolent as she presents, maybe the Fireflies are as a whole, but she isn't.
I mean, yeah, lets give an emotionally unstable and VIOLENT man a bunch of guns and supplies. That won't end badly, lol. I love Joel, but I do think he's in the wrong for going Terminator on everyone, and planting the seeds for TLOU II. I understand his reaction, but it doesn't make it right. Ellie wanted to do the surgery, in the game at least (from what i remember) and for him to take that away from her, and lie about it, was wrong. Again, i understand where he's coming from, but again, it doesn't make it right. The argument of "Ellie was just a kid" is very shaky as well. Ellie was a kid at the time, sure, but she was kid that very likely grew up REAL fast because of the world around her, and seeing/doing some messed up shit. It's unfair that she had to do and see those things, but it's also disrespectful to her character to label her as "just a kid" after all that. Would Ellie's sacrifice worked and made a cure possible? It can be debated forever, but for Joel to take that chance (as slim as it was) away, was wrong.
@@keithfilibeck2390what's clear about Marlene is that she has the mindset of being willing to make harsh sacrifices if it results in greater good for more people. Early on, she loses most of the Boston fireflies by using teams as distractions to allow Ellie to be smuggled out. Marlene initially wanted to protect Ellie as a promise to her mother, but once she discovered Ellie's immunity, her ethics of sacrifice for the greater good kick in. I don't think Marlene was unaffected by the thought of sacrificing Ellie, but she's not the kind of character to allow personal feelings to get in the way of the mission. She's basically the opposite of Joel in that way, as he murders his way through the fireflies and kills what little hope there was for a cure... all so he could maintain his personal connection he made with Ellie. Neither party respected Ellie's autonomy in the end, and I don't think Marlene is any more callous than Joel and almost certainly less selfish in her intent.
@@Xenthosis317 Greater Good people are almost universally more evil than people who maintain personal connections, because what the "Greater Good" is, and the means to achieve it, are malleable, and usually involve alot of death. once Marlene has a cure she'd use it to wrangle political control and dangle the cure over people's heads for compliance, my proof? all of human fucking history, her type are always inevitably Hitlers, Stalins, and Mussolini's, all of them thought they were the greater good too.
@@philipvargas2605 I mean, yeah, what do you expect after telling him they will kill his surrogate child and he has no say in the matter? Ellie wanted to do it? How do you know, how would the fireflies know that if they didnt ask her? Its a scientific fact that our brain doesnt stop developing until the age of 25. That wouldnt be any different in that situation.
THANK YOU for making it clear that the cordyceps can not be classified as evil due to them not being human. That sort of clarification (or lack-there-of) can make or break a UA-cam channel for me.
I agree with most of this video, except one thing about Joel and him killing the fireflies. He's not guilty of depriving Ellie of choice, as that choice had already been taken from her by the Fireflies. And since he knows what almost happened to Ellie with David, and his experiences with "greater good" mentalties previously, his choice is an understandable one. 1. Joel's daughter got killed by a representative of the U.S state, a soldier. While the government was bombing civilians. For the greater good. 2. Joel worked in the quarantine zone for FEDRA. One of his duties was to burn people euthanized by "the state", for the greater good. 3. Joel is ex-military, possibly having seen civilian deaths even before the outbreak. 4. Joel comes across Davids group, raiders, who also are cannibals. They sacrifice their own for survival. 5. The Hunters killed "Tourists" but also hunted kids, under the pretense of "greater good" when it really was personal vengeance. It is a fairly safe bet to say that "the greater good" really has lost all meaning to Joel, with him choosing to focus on "For the good of Ellie" instead, something we can also see in him choosing to lie to her about the Fireflies fate. He does this in order to (misguidedly, probably) try to spare her from any further survivors guilt, something she already has quite a bit of, having had so many people die for her already.
I really enjoy these Analyzing Evil videos you do. They are really interesting. I actually have some villains that I think you should do videos on. 1. Dolores Umbridge from Harry Potter franchise. 2. Tempest Shadow/Fizzlepop Berrytwist from My Little Pony: The Movie (2017). 3. Dean Walcott from Patch Adams. 4. Agatha Trunchbull from Matilda. 5. Princess Malty "Myne" S Melromarc and King Aultcray Melromarc from The Rising Of The Shield Hero. 6. Judge Doom from Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
Best video you’ve done so far Vile Eye thank you thank you. It is true that in this society it depends on your perspectives that ask who is really evil but there’s one question that I always stress about whenever Part I and Part II are talked about and that is with the world as it is, with the hunters that take and kill what they want and who they want. With FEDRA being corrupt and not showing any kind of hope it really begs the question “Is humanity even worth saving?” Now some might say yes and some might say no to this question. I believe that hunters got too accustomed to this new world and will not want things back to the way they were. FEDRA will lose control of what they have and not want to reform. Fireflies who knows but people like the town that Tommy runs and maybe a few small town might like the cure but we don’t know how many of these there are if any. Now while I love Part I I HATE Part II for the story. Gameplay and graphics are amazing but that’s it. But it feels like the entire story, revenge plot, and death were all for nothing. (I won’t give away spoilers if anyone hasn’t played Part II) But that’s what I think otherwise great video and can’t wait to see the next one.
What a brilliant, left fielded video! Thank you vile eye. I love the ambiguity of TLOU. A faction I want to see explored more is FEDRA/government. It is shown (for my money) as a necessary evil but one that isn’t entirely devoid of compassion. I also hope they explore if any other governments in the world survived.
I will have to completely disagree with you about the Fireflies. We have no idea what their intentions are if they were to successfully overthrow FEDRA. Considering Marlene completely screws Joel over after he fulfills his end of the bargain, doesn't tell Ellie about her death as the trade for the cure, she is just as dishonest and untrustworthy IMO.
Also, even if the cure *was* viable it's impact would be negligible. How many people at that point in the timeline were dying to spores or getting bitten and surviving? Ellie's condition didn't prevent her from being attacked by zombies so it wouldn't help on that scale either. Effectively the cure would be a morale boost and little more. Just a tool the Fireflies would hold over Fedra to gain hegemonic control whilst offering little practical benefit in rebuilding the world.
That's not true at all, The firelies were the group who were trying to do the MOST pragamatic good for the world from necessary means. They're "intentions" were to save the world from the infection, that's obvious. There's no prove that they would have been worse than "fedra" if they overthrew. Marlene had to be "Dishonest" when the greater good DEMANDED of it. She doesn't "Completely screws over joel" AT ALL, she just didn't know that he would be that emotionally attached to ellie but that ultimately doesn't matter because ellie's body could be a chance to save all of humanity and that's a chance everyone needed to take. And of course she doesn't tell ellie about ehr death because ellie's body to save millions were more necessary than her personal right to live as little girls like her die ALL the time in brutal ways due to the infection and marlene and the rest of the firelfies were trying to stop it. The fireflies were trying to do the MOST good from any pragmatic means possible, regradless of any bad they did along the way.
@@Gadget-Walkmen I'm not an "ends justify the means" type of person. It's not worth being king of the ash pile after the world has burned from your actions. Fireflies did not care who they killed when bombing FEDRA, civilian casualties were just eggs for the proverbial omelette. When that is how you obtain power, more than likely it's how you hold onto power.
@@chrisb4131 The "ends justify the means" in THIS case when the world is literally hell and men, women, and children JUST like Ellie die in brutal terrible ways all the time. It's best the sacifice one to save literally MILLIONS of MILLIONS of people around the world, I can't even save "billions" because that's how many people have died in the last of us world. Their world NEEDS to be saved no matter what and sacrifice one little girl to potentially save everyone is MORE than worth it. You're not being "king of the ash pile" AT ALL, you're trying to SAVE the world after it's been turn into a hellscape as the fireflies can't do anything negative to the world that hasn't already happened, they can only go UPWARDS and save as much people as possible. I'm not denying that the fireflies hasn't done bad things, but in their world, you're basically forced to as time to survive, you've seen this many, MANY times already in the show. I can see where you're coming from of how they "try to obtain power" by bombing people but Fireflies are ultimately trying to do as much good as possible in the long run if they're trying to cure as much people as they can.
The fireflies, are perhaps one of the biggest missteps this franchise ever took. The seQUEL WANTS us the think they are the good guys-except the fireflies took advantage of the a unconscious joel and Ellie to get a cure, they THREATENED joel with death upon telling him the truth (why would Marlene do this?), the doctor then did a quite stupid decision by getting in Joel’s way, they enacted a horrible decision-to kill the only living person immune to the fungus. This is quite stupid for obvious medical reasons; if Ellie dies and they can’t make a vaccine without further tests and It was for naught and they can’t replicate Ellie’s immunity. How could they then spread the vaccine? Would the vaccine be effective on non-Ellie ppl? How could they keep the vaccine a secret to avoid the government and other hostile militias? The vaccine may work but it can’t prevent fungus infected from attacking.
Man, that is top quality content. Not sure if you done this one yet, but Thomas Shelby from The Peaky Blinders seemed like a very interesting character and would really like to see your perspective.
I don't know about the fireflies. Even under the assumption that a cure/vaccine was 100% possible, consider this: Ellie is immune to "turning" after gettign infected - she's not immune to the violence by the infected or by survivors (hunters, military dictatorships, vigilante "justice" etc.), she's not immune to starvation or dying of exposure etc etc. Her immunity gives her very little benefit over a non-immune person, she still has to fear for her life on a regular basis. Same goes for any other person who'd become immune with that cure/vaccine - they will not turn if infected, but it doesn't mean they're safe or their living situation / struggle for survival improves in a significant way. The cordiceps has already done all the damage it can do to humanity in those 20 years. Whether you sacrifice Ellie's life now to get a cure asap - or wait some years until she dies due to some other reason, or wait until she's had offspring, it won't change much. Meanwhile, you can explore other possibilities to extract the cure. Meanwhile, she could decide to have children or donate her eggs .. which could give rise to more humans that are immune naturally. This way you don't off the only person you know to be immune. It's about maximizing options, but offing Ellie asap is the opposite: reducing your options to zero, especially if the cure fails.
There's some things worth noting with Joel's choice in both the game and show. 1). In the game it's revealed by collectibles that the Fireflies have already tried several times making a cure with the same procedure as Ellie's and failed. So chances are this attempt likely would have failed as well, and Joel finding this evidence would only make him more certain he was making the right call. 2). The doctor in the second episode of the show made the suggestion to firebomb her country because she said flat out there was no way to cure this infection. Now, when a woman who has studied this science for decades with near unlimited resources says a cure is not possible; as the viewer who are you going to listen to? Her or some random doctor with very few resources and equipment who likely has no idea what he's doing. Not to mention even if he developed a vaccine, he'd have to test it and risk infecting more people. Given what we the audience and players know, I'd say Joel made the right call. The chances of making a cure were slim at best.
In the game there were firefly notes that eluded to ellie not being unique and they have butchered more immune people without getting closer to a cure. Which was probably a part of why joel did what he did as well. I assume canon is finding everything
I love your take on post apocalyptic worlds. It would be really cool if analyzed the movie "threads" and in addition to analyzing the world and people you could treat the nuclear bomb as a character or a cruel entity
You should do a video on Fallout characters or factions. Such as Ceaser, or Mr. House from fallout New Vegas. Or some of the factions such as the Institute, Ceasers legion, Brotherhood of steel. I feel like there’s some good analyzing evil videos out there.
I think one of the themes is kind of the clash of interests of individuals vs the interests of the many, and by his strong reaction in favor of the person he loves, we start to see a sort of social mechanism which exists to keep society from crushing individuals. Even at the cost of burning society, even when there's little hope, there's something imbedded in everyone which turns against such things.
Great video, Vile Eye! I’d like to suggest ideas for future videos. Analyzing Evil: Mike Erhmantraut (Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul and El Camino) Analyzing Evil: The Akatsuki (Naruto) Analyzing Evil: God of War Series Analyzing Evil: Bane (The Dark Knight Rises)
Would love to watch your analysis of any of the antagonists from The Walking Dead. Negan, The Governor, Gareth from Terminus, Alpha, Pamela Milton or even Shane.
As far as Joel saving Ellie at the potential cost of the world: I think it was the wrong choice, but not an evil one. His intentions were pure though woefully misguided. Even if the doctor was wrong, the chance to save the world is too big to pass up.
Problem is it was wrong for Eye to frame it as Ellie vs the World because there's no way Ellie's cure, even if it was viable, would save the world. Who at that point is dying to spores or surviving Zombie attacks after getting bitten? Not a lot of people. More than anything people are dying from malnutrition, infighting, lack of medical supplies, etc. The cure was never going to save the world, it was a pipe dream and hell, even if it *could* save the world its pretty clear the Fireflies would have just abused their hold over the cure to become a worse tyrant than Fedra. Wether Joel considered that in his rationale or not doesn't matter, the point is he still made the right choice. Ellie could still possibly provide the cure later on in her life in a means that wouldn't kill her, or after having been properly informed of what was going to happen and being old enough to give informed consent. The Fireflies were unambiguously evil people convinced by their cause that they were the good guys and it's disappointing that Eye didn't really consider this for his video.
I highly doubt a cure would "save" the world of TLoU, as almost all the conflict in the setting are over people vs people, with the Fungus infected being much more akin to incredibly lethal wildlife at this point.
Brilliant video as per usual, Vile (sorry for being late to it--life's been busy for me lately). You've laid a lot of groundwork here that I cannot WAIT to see you follow up on when you eventually decide to tackle Part II and its characters, especially the dueling misguided crusades (and actions) of Ellie and Abby against each other and the people both care about. Looking forward to more! :)
16:45 This is the main argument of why Joel's decision to rescue Ellie is so important. Marlene herself in the game said that the Fireflies were rapidly diminishing in numbers and moral; she said 'my people need a Win', or some such rather. This is an indication that they weren't willing to wait to see if alternatives to the lethal operation were possible, they were more interested in showing the world that they would become the saviors of humanity. Fedra would be dissolved, and the Fireflies would become the new ruling order. To those ends, they were willing to do anything at all in the quickest, most reckless way possible to achieve this before anyone else. Almost reminds me of the US-USSR space achievement wars decades ago, with the Russians leaders at last disregarding their primary engineer's concerns that the latest rocket they wanted to send into space was not safe, and the necessary tests had not been explored or performed. All that was important was showing the world who was destined to win the space race.
I bought the last of us when it first came out, pre order and everything. Blew my mind, storyline was unlike beyond anything else I ever played before, maybe uncharted, but this felt more immersive. And the pvp was badass. I still play the first one. Pre ordered part 2, loved the mechanics, beautiful graphics, cool storyline, but tbh I wish there would have been pvp
Due to the actions of the Fireflies I don’t see them as any better than FEDRA. They turned into what they were fighting against. As for Joel. The only thing I don’t agree with is him lying to Ellie (but what parent doesn’t lie to their kid[s]?). In the show at least, the Fireflies took away Ellie’s informed consent to the surgery, so let them burn. My two pennies
Great to see more video game and tv show characters and stories being covered, as the last of us is one of the most profound and significant zombie stories of any medium (at least part 1 is).
I personally think that the Fireflies getting a cure isn't as positive if it may seem at first, and that Joel was unintentionally fully in the right to do what he did. Even if Ellie's sacrifce worked out, even if she had the chance to choose that she wanted to give her life for this (and Joel going along with it), we have to remember that the Fireflies would essentially have a monopoly on something the whole world desires. And if there is one thing we can draw from history and every advancement that was made for the 'greater good', humanity has always found a way to exploit it (for example financially) and at worst weaponise it. There is no reason why they shouldn't use this cure to cause chaotic riots within FEDRA-controlled area's (and even independent settlements like Tommy's) or intentionally use infected as a weapon of war now that they can 'tame' them a lot easier. Anyone can now be made to fall in line with what they deem to be right and part of their vision for a New World Order. I think ironically Ellie's sacrifice may have lead to the most absolutely terrifiying opressive dictatorial power the world has ever seen, so eventhough I doubt this was on Joel's mind when he was saving Ellie, I think he did something that saved a lot more future lives than just Ellie's. (I won't deny it was still a horrible massacre, but it was just unavoidable at that point)
I know there's a lot to cover, but it would've been interesting to hear your opinion on Henry working as a collaborator in order to get leukemia medicine for Sam.
Oh man I wanna start playing this game, don't know if I should watch this yet but I love these analysis videos you make so I'm vexed 😮. (Meh just gonna watch it 😅)
Joel is, more or less, just a survivor, like everyone else in that universe. He doesn't always make morally right decisions, but who are we to weigh his decisions against our own morals? It's easy for someone who doesn't have to fight to survive to make hasty judgements about someone else's actions. After all, we don't do that. In that line of reasoning lies a fatal flaw: literally everyone in that scenario would skin you alive if it meant they'd live for another week. We live in a cozy environment where the only thing we need to worry about is bills, food, and streaming services. Joel doesn't have that luxury. Between hoodlums, bandits, and the infected, he's fighting an uphill battle against an organized army with a pellet gun. Joel made a bad decision by taking away what is essentially the last hope of humanity, but Ellie never got a say and humanity would have to make a monumentally collaberative effort to restore itself, and you see how well that's been going. It just goes to show that the collective preservative drive of our species has some pretty dire and unintended consequences, which most attempts to restore and improve our species are ultimately in vain, anyway.
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The vile eye please do the video on Odin from God of war
Please do The video on OZAi From avatar the last airbender
Great analysis I have a suggestion for the next episode of Analyzing Evil how about a video on Professor Pericles the main antagonist from Scooby-Doo Mystery Incorporated he's a parrot manipulated by the Evil Entity to unleash his selfish desires betraying his friends and seeking to destroy Crystal Cove and kill 4 teenagers and their dog to prevent them from stoping his plan. Pericles is highly intelligent cunning and sadistic and would be a great addition to the Analyzing Evil series.
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Something random and subtle I love about The Vile Eye, is whenever the video starts, theres always one second of silence, and as the character speaks we hear 'Hello Everyone" Its so consistent and brilliant. Been a fan for a long time! Keep up the amazing work!
This is something I’ve subconsciously liked about his video and I didn’t realise it until you stated it. Also the fact that he has a very calm and soothing voice so it blends perfectly in his introductions.
I noticed it during one random video of his in particular and pointed it out. Can't remember which but boy do I feel dumb 😂😂
Agreed, I would say on this video the audio is slightly off from the character speaking (most the time it’s on point)
I remember back when I discovered it Vile Eye had like 10k subs, after like a week or two this channel was over like 80k
That one second is for the viewer to absorb the image of evil.
If David had more screen time you could easily make an "Analyzing Evil" vid dedicated to him. Easily one of the most despicable monsters in recent media.
It’s not recent media.
@@TheJoker-bz3ms the tv show literally just ended man. turn ur brain on for a sec
@@fucksleepordie I’ve known of David for 8 years so turn your brain on, lmao
@@TheJoker-bz3ms Well relatively recently. The original game is only 10 years old
@@Irish443 he's just a troll don't feed into him
David tried to use Ellie's body without her consent and Joel arrived too late to help her.
The fireflies tried to use Ellie's body without consent and Joel stopped them.
Arrived too late? The fuck? He literally had to pull Ellie off David’s dead body.
@@markgaumee yes, meaning he didn't get there in time to help her? Which he would have wanted to do? As her surrogate father?
@@kevburke I like to think he had to save her from herself and what she was doing, up till this point in the story she's already killed but not in such a brutal way. In the show she saves herself, she leaves the building and doesn't need rescued, the difference is, in the game, Joel has to physically stop her, in a metaphoric way he saves her.
@@markgaumee I think the implication was that she was going to be sexually assaulted, which he would have obviously wanted to prevent. It was less ambiguous in the show, I guess..
@@kevburke Yes it was because I played through part I and I knew David was an evil bastered but it wasn't until I watched video essays on the game that I realized what David's true intentions with Ellie were, which made me sick to my stomach thinking about it.
Regarding Marlene and the Fireflies, it's also worth mentioning that in the show she promised Joel a whole bunch of guns and supplies if he delivered Ellie. Yet when he actually did, despite telling him she owed him big for doing it, she commands soldiers to escort him off the premises and makes it clear she's totally going back on her deal. He was about to leave with nothing. It struck me that the show was making Joel's next decision slightly less ambiguous, painting Marlene as a liar who couldn't be trusted. Not like that justifies Joel killing everyone, but it changes Marlene from a person who is just trying to save humanity and making a tough call to a person who has screwed over the main character for seemingly no reason while doing it.
not to mention they were about as close and capable to making a cure as an inch is to a thousand miles
@@Braxtonkai Exactly. They seemed to stress "a chance at a cure" with very little certainty, which makes Ellie sacrificing herself more debatable.
Even worse when we as the audience know from the first two episode openers that a cure or vaccine can never be produced for fungal infection, not to mention it would've done very little in a world where infected bite, claw, and rip their victims apart.
Though the show did also remove Ellie almost drowning, did it not?
@@BrianWatkins9000 another point people fail to realize too is that Ellie is a child, one who would want to go through with it only because she’s letting her trauma guilt her into doing it. Which people would be fine with a literal child to consent to killing herself but wouldn’t condone having her consent to anything else questionable with her age but anyways. She feels she would have to with everyone close to her dying. she feels that’s her purpose when really she’s a friend, daughter, and somebody to those around her. Along with multiple reasons on why a cure wouldn’t even be viable, along with its very slim chance of working, isn’t thought about since she’s a child. She doesn’t realize that the world is already screwed to a point of no return. It’ll take very slow progress and is doable without a cure that won’t even exist or will do little and be misused. If the fireflies decided to actually learn about her, they would realize this. Ofc Joel didn’t really think it in this way either but it still stands on why Joel made the right decision tbh.
Part of me thinks that Marlene wanted to preserve the idea that the Fireflies were righteous and fighting for a better future, especially towards the end where they were all grasping at straws just to keep their group together.
It also wasn’t even them that brought Ellie across the country, but Joel. A person who’s seen how they really operate.
So she tried to dispose of him for two reasons:
First, when and *IF* they developed a cure, she wanted all the credit to go to the Fireflies so they could use it as leverage to draw more to her cause. Joel is a third party, with no allegiance to their cause and is someone who could give an account that goes against whatever narrative the Fireflies may generate in the wake of their potential cure.
And second, she clearly didn’t want to risk Joel possibly persuading Ellie not to go through with it, especially if the cure would cost her her life. Joel never had much faith in the Fireflies. I imagine it’s a story he’s heard before to no avail.
The thing Marlene probably didn’t expect was how close Joel and Ellie would get. Marlene’s only known Joel as a ruthless killer, and with the prospect of a reward, I think she expected him to keep Ellie at arms length.
TLoU (part 1 at least) tells such a well articulated and morally grey story.
Joel’s actions at the end of the game are definitely morally questionable, but given the context of the situation they were by all accounts very human.
Excellent video once again, Vile Eye! I always enjoy your uploads. 🙂
Loved that you didn't end the video with contributing the tragedy of the Last of Us to evil like most of your other videos. It being because we're human is a far more sobering, painful truth: a broken world does not care about our love, but we will still do anything for the things we love. Such is the Last of Us' message. Great video!
Evil in The Last of Us is tricky. Since in world like that selfless deeds run the risk of being harshly punished.
I agree. Tommy seems like a morally good character. He is a nice guy who fought in the military before the apocalypse because he wanted to help and after the apocalypse he joined the Fireflies for the same reason. He describes what Joel and him did as a nightmare and not worth it, showing he has a lot of guilt and probably wasn't fully responsible for any attrocities he may have been apart of. Yet, after the events of the second game (trying to avoid spoilers) he becomes the type of man who has no problem murdering and torturing innocent WLF soldiers to get revenge, arguably evil. After, he guilt trips a woman who is happy with a family to put her life in danger to satisfy his persuit for revenge.
Reminded me of the scene where Joel and Ellie saw a man claiming he was injured and Ellie wanted to help him, but Joel knew it was play.
Later on after the ambush, it mentions where survivors were driving down the same path and how the ambush most likely had done the same thing to trick them into “helping” just to strike.
Same thing for Walter from the Walking Dead Game. A man of character and how he helps anyone without thinking. This example being Bonnie.
Walter believed that the world hasn’t gone to crap and just wanted everyone work together, just to be shot by Carter later…
case in point being joel saving abby in part 2
This, for its subgenre
@@DANtheMANofSIPA I agree with nearly everything you're saying, although saying that Ellie was happy with Dina and JJ at the farm is far from the truth. Of course she wants to be happy, but it's clear she is still heavily traumatised and filled with PTSD. That's not to say that leaving Dina and JJ was the right choice for Ellie, at the end of the day it's not as simple as Ellie being happy or sad, or her decisions being right or wrong.
"Don't be smug about your morality until you've had it tested" - John Young, Vietnam Veteran
Damn.
A new favorite.
Thankyou.
Frfrfrfrfr
there's a book called Kill Anything That Moves that reflects on Vietnam and the events that took place. it has many veteran interviews many of whom were guilty of heinous actions and rewarded for it. some use the interviews as a sort of release. it's very interesting and shows true that statement is. it's also incredibly dark so fair warning if you decide to read it as it's essentially a book of atrocities.
So true
I love the idea of tackling morally grey characters. If I had to suggest a character for this type of video, I'd love to see an analyzing evil of Shinji Ikari (Evangelion). Now I'm not saying he's evil, far from it I think he's one of the greatest heroes ever created, one cannot deny how morally grey he is until the end, I'd love to see your stance on him, or his world under an "analyzing evil: Evangelion" video. Either way, I love what you do man
Holy, same thoughts.
yes. Evangelion is such a swirling mass of (almost) evil people who are endlessly complex
Fucking no, please. I can't relive Shinji being a bitch again.
This has my vote! It would be so incredible!
the show has key differences from the game. for example, Bill's partner really hated Bill, he preferred death over another second second with Bill; and Bill didn't kill himself during the events of the game
There is actually evidence in The Last of Us 1 that points to Marlene planning to kill you and not give you any of the supplies she promised you, In fact in the first game there isn't even a guarantee that the procedure will even work, and given the Fireflies' treatment of Joel and Ellie, I am inclined to agree quite heavily that Joel isn't really a villain.
I hope you do Negan from the Walking Dead. He is a villain but he also has imo one of the greatest redemption arcs.
I love how it's not the characters it's just the entire world
I'm glad you chose to do The Last of Us world as a whole, because no one is really good or evil in this Society. It's all about perspective
that cult leader guy is evil for sure
@@headcrap6152 but from his perspective he's leading this group into a newer world. Again you got to look at things from other people side even if you think that person side is evil
@@animesempai0 yes evil is a perspective but their are objectively bad things even in the most dire situations.... no matter what you are evil if you decide to eat another human being.... no matter what that is evil.... no matter what cold blooded murder is objectively evil... but their is necessary evils like they pointed out....
Idk Seraphites being transphobic and literally gutting people is pretty sus.
@@SaberRexZealot sounds based to me
I would argue that if Joel just went with it and allowed the fire flies to kill Ellie despite what they went through together and what Ellie means to him, that would have been a pretty cold thing to do and it would go against pretty much everything that makes us human. You could argue that would have been an evil thing to do?
The sudden glow when you receive a notification of Analyzing Evil and hear that chiliing 'Hello Everyone'.
Still waiting for Sean Nokes and The Caller from Phone Booth ( specifically because Kiefer Sutherland also has that chilling voice ). Keep Up The Good Work 👊
Agreed. Memorable voice acting from Sutherland
Really enjoyed this episode! I would like to see your take on analyzing evil in the world of Spec Ops: The Line or at least the character of Captain Martin Walker. While it does carry the same inspirations from the Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now, its critiques on the nature of military shooters provides a deeper subtext in relation to the players moral context.
Excited for this one. Would love to see an analysis of the villains in the Fargo series. Some real gems in there
Lorne Malvo definitely deserves a look. Seriously one of the best villains to come to the silver screen and play to perfection by Billy Bob Thornton
Would love to see this, plenty to look at in Fargo
Yeah him and the native dude are literal demons lol
Couldn’t agree more. Great work!
Star Trek’s Khan perhaps, with his actions in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in mind
It's of my opinion that Joel did nothing wrong in saving Elle. He was a man caught up in an extraordinarily dire and tragic situation. He had already lost his daughter at the start of the story, did what he HAD TO DO to survive, became a surrogate father to Elle and grew to love her as a daughter. He then did what he HAD TO DO to save Elle's life. There was no guarantee that the procedure to remove the cordyceps from Elle's brain would conclude with a successful vaccine. There is, however, a certain guarantee that the procedure would result in Elle's death. Joel's actions in this case are completely understandable to me as a man who has no children of his own, but is in the process of adopting two teenage girls. If put in Joel's situation, I would have reacted the same way. On top of this, I'll wager that anyone who disagrees doesn't have children of their own.
*I think The Last of Us is about how Love can make us do crazy things and Elle and Joell combat and support that theme exactly can't wait for Season 2!*
I told my husband about the title of this video being a coverage of the whole show, not just a specific character, and he just said "Yeah, that tracks."
A comparison that I keep thinking of for Joel is the character of Bigby Wolf from the comic series Fables. Bigby is the Big Bad Wolf of legend in human form, now serving his community as a sheriff - but before the Amnesty that got the fairy tale community built, he wasn't just a physical predator, he was a sadist, and people still remember that about him. Joel's "monster in plain sight" reputation definitely reminds me of that.
This world will bring out the evil in anyone in their quest for survival. Thank you for this video.
You analyzed the evil of the cordyceps
I would love to see similar analysis of other non human entities
Be the Alien, the predator, the marker/brethren moons from Dead Space, the Thing, the aliens from War of the worlds, etc
The Marker/Moons are absolutely evil, they take great delight in the suffering of the main character, and presumably, all their untold victims, being turned into them.
Quite possibly one of the most controversial endings in video game history and one of the greatest games ever made. The HBO show was also surprisingly a great adaptation. Wished their was a bit more infected. Gonna be enjoying this video
@@Oppen1945 yeah i dont really understand why so many people think its controversial or even evil. He thought of her as a daughter, why wouldn't he be willing to kill for her? Hes done it how many times to get her there? Also a single surgeon was never going to create a cure or vaccine. So many people just glance over that.
I don't think it was
@@Oppen1945 I would say it was. And yes it links to the events in part 2 which is even more controversial than the previous. I will link both into one when I say this that I’ve seen many who agree with Joel’s actions whilst many others say Joel was completely in the wrong and His fate was deserved.
@@General_D1 the thing is the people who tend to be against Joel's actions like a hand full missed out on information that the whole thing with the cure wasn't even 100% gonna work. I remember when I heard that there was a tape that admitted that so I. The end would have really done anything, not really
@@iammaximumstupied I agree with you, Marlene herself wasn’t sure about the cure in the show. In the game there was evidence that there were many like Ellie who all died. And Marlene even was gonna set up Joel to be killed in a audio recording. Even if the cure did work. 20 years of damage through zombie infestation, fall off economies and technology etc. the world simply cannot revive itself.
Another great video by The Vile Eye. I do agree with Joel not being evil. Also I think that it’s important to think about The possibility that the world still would’ve been with violent bandits and tyrants even if they developed a cure. Think about it with a cure have really had fixed everything in the world at that point. I truly don’t think so. The game is established that a lot of people have turned bad. I’ve been living bad for a very long time. There would’ve been tons of next steps to fixing the world besides developing a cure. Also, people didn’t say a joke killed a bunch of people when he didn’t have to but I think you have to consider the fact that at least in the show almost every antagonist character went after Joe and Ellie or Henry because they wanted revenge. So, in my opinion, it seemed to me like the show was stating that if you left any of your attackers alive, they would come back with more people and try to kill you again.
Lorne Malvo definitely deserves a look. Seriously one of the best villains to come to the silver screen and played to perfection by Billy Bob Thornton
Frankly, Fargo had no shortage of brilliant villains.
I've been waiting for this one
Malvo woulkd be a boring video. Malvo is literally purely just a cartoon villain for Lester to do something throughout the season. He has no story, no motivation, and no complexities. He goes around while killing everyone for no reason while his actor does the most fake "mysterious assassin" persona I've ever seen.
@@elsienova4269 He works for a brief episode, which this channel has covered with villains like that. Personally, I think Mike Milligan is far more interesting.
Oh I love this analysis. "The Last of Us" isn't just a great game, but one of the best stories I've ever seen unfold in visual media. The moral ambiguity of each character is a great exploration of mankind at its most desperate. And Joel's final choice in the end of the story is one that truly shows what a monster he is to some, but he's also makes a very understandable choice in the eyes of others. Kudos Vile Eye!
I'd like to see one on Trevor Phillips from Grand Theft Auto V. He's an unpredictably violent and gruesome sociopath. He's a bank robber, serial killer, and cannibal in a modern society. He's committed nearly every crime there is in the story, and he's one of the protagonists.
Killing it with the content Mr. Vile.
For future analysis I would recommend, as far as another video game dealing with a pandemic, is The Healing Church from Bloodborne.
Yes, I agree, Because that world apocalyptic world can really change a person and drive them down into dark places like Joel, Whose down terrible things to humanity, But tries to do good.
Joel killed the fireflies because whether Ellie consented or not they would have still hunted them down. Probably would have killed Joel for retaliation.
lol that's still 100% NOT true at all as there's no prove that the fireflies would have "Still hunted them down" AT ALL in ANY way. Of course they would have "killed joel for retaliation" because joel killed their own people, that should be obvious.
Been loving your videos man, thank you for making these. If you're open to suggestions, there's a British TV show called Utopia with quite a few characters you might find interesting ;)
Where is Jessica Hyde?
What a terrifying prospect that world is. We need to do our best to NEVER see anything like this come to pass.
Its probably worth pointing out on the subject of the fureflies morality that theres a log that says theyve done this to other immune people before, so theres absolutely no garuntee itll work
Analyzing Evil: The Crooked Man (Wolf among us)
Pretty interesting character
In such a world like The Last of Us, there is only survival. But in such a world, one can find something so precious and beautiful, and be determined to protect it. Great video. I hope the next thing you analyze is The Last of Us Part II as a whole such as The Washington Liberation Front (WLF), The Seraphites, and the Rattlers.
@Emperor Palpatine what makes you think so
@Emperor Palpatine they improved on many of the mechanics of the game and expanded on the combat, graphics, presentation, etc. So that’s not true. The Abby stuff is controversial and has been discussed for years but it was done for a clear intention and was still mostly quality character building and gameplay. It is certainly not a bad game. A tragedy, controversial? Yes.
@@DirectFireDave 'it was done for a clear intention and was still mostly quality character building and gameplay'.
Seriously? The 'character building' was ass along with the whole story which just comes off as fanfiction. And just because something has 'a clear intention' doesn't mean it was a good one. The only way one can appreciate TLOU2's story is if their a willing idiot like the game wants you to be.
@@samcooper2474 ok 😂 have your opinion, sport
@@DirectFireDave Gladly, cause it's the right opinion. You keep thinking you smell roses instead of 💩, bro.
Fuck yeah! Glad to see you cover TLOU! Especially can’t wait to see your video on Part 2, although I imagine you’ll wait till after the series catches up to make that one. In the meantime, can we get a video on Lorne Malvo from Fargo? Watching your Judge Holden video made me think of him, since he’s heavily implied to be the Devil.
Likewise, others would wait in concern how far the adaptation would be for PT2. Excited, as news/rumors were, it'll take multiple seasons to flesh out how complicated it is.
The Moral Ambiguity in this show and game is so compelling. I feel like if this is how the world end it is an accurate depiction of how many people would act
It felt like Marlene just abandoned Joel after the drop, like no compensation? just his bag to the side of the road?? Thatd also piss me off on top of killing Ellie
that and her effortless sacrifice of Ellie, a girl she's known forever, shows she's not as benevolent as she presents, maybe the Fireflies are as a whole, but she isn't.
I mean, yeah, lets give an emotionally unstable and VIOLENT man a bunch of guns and supplies. That won't end badly, lol.
I love Joel, but I do think he's in the wrong for going Terminator on everyone, and planting the seeds for TLOU II. I understand his reaction, but it doesn't make it right. Ellie wanted to do the surgery, in the game at least (from what i remember) and for him to take that away from her, and lie about it, was wrong. Again, i understand where he's coming from, but again, it doesn't make it right.
The argument of "Ellie was just a kid" is very shaky as well. Ellie was a kid at the time, sure, but she was kid that very likely grew up REAL fast because of the world around her, and seeing/doing some messed up shit. It's unfair that she had to do and see those things, but it's also disrespectful to her character to label her as "just a kid" after all that.
Would Ellie's sacrifice worked and made a cure possible? It can be debated forever, but for Joel to take that chance (as slim as it was) away, was wrong.
@@keithfilibeck2390what's clear about Marlene is that she has the mindset of being willing to make harsh sacrifices if it results in greater good for more people. Early on, she loses most of the Boston fireflies by using teams as distractions to allow Ellie to be smuggled out. Marlene initially wanted to protect Ellie as a promise to her mother, but once she discovered Ellie's immunity, her ethics of sacrifice for the greater good kick in. I don't think Marlene was unaffected by the thought of sacrificing Ellie, but she's not the kind of character to allow personal feelings to get in the way of the mission.
She's basically the opposite of Joel in that way, as he murders his way through the fireflies and kills what little hope there was for a cure... all so he could maintain his personal connection he made with Ellie. Neither party respected Ellie's autonomy in the end, and I don't think Marlene is any more callous than Joel and almost certainly less selfish in her intent.
@@Xenthosis317 Greater Good people are almost universally more evil than people who maintain personal connections, because what the "Greater Good" is, and the means to achieve it, are malleable, and usually involve alot of death. once Marlene has a cure she'd use it to wrangle political control and dangle the cure over people's heads for compliance, my proof? all of human fucking history, her type are always inevitably Hitlers, Stalins, and Mussolini's, all of them thought they were the greater good too.
@@philipvargas2605 I mean, yeah, what do you expect after telling him they will kill his surrogate child and he has no say in the matter?
Ellie wanted to do it? How do you know, how would the fireflies know that if they didnt ask her?
Its a scientific fact that our brain doesnt stop developing until the age of 25. That wouldnt be any different in that situation.
Amazing video on a terribly complicated set of characters. If possible, I would love to see a video over Erika and Walter from “The Piano Teacher”
THANK YOU for making it clear that the cordyceps can not be classified as evil due to them not being human.
That sort of clarification (or lack-there-of) can make or break a UA-cam channel for me.
I agree with most of this video, except one thing about Joel and him killing the fireflies.
He's not guilty of depriving Ellie of choice, as that choice had already been taken from her by the Fireflies. And since he knows what almost happened to Ellie with David, and his experiences with "greater good" mentalties previously, his choice is an understandable one.
1. Joel's daughter got killed by a representative of the U.S state, a soldier. While the government was bombing civilians. For the greater good.
2. Joel worked in the quarantine zone for FEDRA. One of his duties was to burn people euthanized by "the state", for the greater good.
3. Joel is ex-military, possibly having seen civilian deaths even before the outbreak.
4. Joel comes across Davids group, raiders, who also are cannibals. They sacrifice their own for survival.
5. The Hunters killed "Tourists" but also hunted kids, under the pretense of "greater good" when it really was personal vengeance.
It is a fairly safe bet to say that "the greater good" really has lost all meaning to Joel, with him choosing to focus on "For the good of Ellie" instead, something we can also see in him choosing to lie to her about the Fireflies fate. He does this in order to (misguidedly, probably) try to spare her from any further survivors guilt, something she already has quite a bit of, having had so many people die for her already.
THANK YOU SO MUCH! I WAS HOPING FOR THIS ONE! ❤
Got the popcorn for this video
I hope you can eventually cover "A.M." from "I have No Mouth and I must Scream".
I really enjoy these Analyzing Evil videos you do. They are really interesting. I actually have some villains that I think you should do videos on.
1. Dolores Umbridge from Harry Potter franchise.
2. Tempest Shadow/Fizzlepop Berrytwist from My Little Pony: The Movie (2017).
3. Dean Walcott from Patch Adams.
4. Agatha Trunchbull from Matilda.
5. Princess Malty "Myne" S Melromarc and King Aultcray Melromarc from The Rising Of The Shield Hero.
6. Judge Doom from Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
This will bump the subs, great call on having this in the chamber vile. Love the channel
Without A Doubt, The Most Evil Character Has Got To Be Will Livingston And His Terrifyingly Cheesy Pun Books.
Best video you’ve done so far Vile Eye thank you thank you. It is true that in this society it depends on your perspectives that ask who is really evil but there’s one question that I always stress about whenever Part I and Part II are talked about and that is with the world as it is, with the hunters that take and kill what they want and who they want. With FEDRA being corrupt and not showing any kind of hope it really begs the question “Is humanity even worth saving?” Now some might say yes and some might say no to this question. I believe that hunters got too accustomed to this new world and will not want things back to the way they were. FEDRA will lose control of what they have and not want to reform. Fireflies who knows but people like the town that Tommy runs and maybe a few small town might like the cure but we don’t know how many of these there are if any. Now while I love Part I I HATE Part II for the story. Gameplay and graphics are amazing but that’s it. But it feels like the entire story, revenge plot, and death were all for nothing. (I won’t give away spoilers if anyone hasn’t played Part II) But that’s what I think otherwise great video and can’t wait to see the next one.
Joel is my favorite character in videogames.
Same
Absolutely love the idea of this video. Can’t wait until the tier list update!
What a brilliant, left fielded video! Thank you vile eye.
I love the ambiguity of TLOU. A faction I want to see explored more is FEDRA/government. It is shown (for my money) as a necessary evil but one that isn’t entirely devoid of compassion. I also hope they explore if any other governments in the world survived.
Great video as always. Hopefully soon you can do one for Eren Yeager.
Great video! You should do Analyzing Evil: John Milton from Devil's Advocate. Or do Analyzing Evil: Harvey "Two Face" Dent from The Dark Knight.
There’s a good chance once the anime is finished we’ll be getting and Analyzing Evil episode for Attack on Titan.
OHHH Damn I wasnt expecting this, But what a welcome surprise :D
I like that when there more morally-grey characters and themes, You put the in a single video.
Them*
I will have to completely disagree with you about the Fireflies. We have no idea what their intentions are if they were to successfully overthrow FEDRA. Considering Marlene completely screws Joel over after he fulfills his end of the bargain, doesn't tell Ellie about her death as the trade for the cure, she is just as dishonest and untrustworthy IMO.
Also, even if the cure *was* viable it's impact would be negligible. How many people at that point in the timeline were dying to spores or getting bitten and surviving? Ellie's condition didn't prevent her from being attacked by zombies so it wouldn't help on that scale either. Effectively the cure would be a morale boost and little more. Just a tool the Fireflies would hold over Fedra to gain hegemonic control whilst offering little practical benefit in rebuilding the world.
I concur. I always figured the Fireflies would use the cure as a tool to gain power. I believe they would basically supplant Fedra.
That's not true at all, The firelies were the group who were trying to do the MOST pragamatic good for the world from necessary means. They're "intentions" were to save the world from the infection, that's obvious. There's no prove that they would have been worse than "fedra" if they overthrew.
Marlene had to be "Dishonest" when the greater good DEMANDED of it. She doesn't "Completely screws over joel" AT ALL, she just didn't know that he would be that emotionally attached to ellie but that ultimately doesn't matter because ellie's body could be a chance to save all of humanity and that's a chance everyone needed to take. And of course she doesn't tell ellie about ehr death because ellie's body to save millions were more necessary than her personal right to live as little girls like her die ALL the time in brutal ways due to the infection and marlene and the rest of the firelfies were trying to stop it.
The fireflies were trying to do the MOST good from any pragmatic means possible, regradless of any bad they did along the way.
@@Gadget-Walkmen I'm not an "ends justify the means" type of person. It's not worth being king of the ash pile after the world has burned from your actions. Fireflies did not care who they killed when bombing FEDRA, civilian casualties were just eggs for the proverbial omelette. When that is how you obtain power, more than likely it's how you hold onto power.
@@chrisb4131 The "ends justify the means" in THIS case when the world is literally hell and men, women, and children JUST like Ellie die in brutal terrible ways all the time. It's best the sacifice one to save literally MILLIONS of MILLIONS of people around the world, I can't even save "billions" because that's how many people have died in the last of us world. Their world NEEDS to be saved no matter what and sacrifice one little girl to potentially save everyone is MORE than worth it.
You're not being "king of the ash pile" AT ALL, you're trying to SAVE the world after it's been turn into a hellscape as the fireflies can't do anything negative to the world that hasn't already happened, they can only go UPWARDS and save as much people as possible.
I'm not denying that the fireflies hasn't done bad things, but in their world, you're basically forced to as time to survive, you've seen this many, MANY times already in the show.
I can see where you're coming from of how they "try to obtain power" by bombing people but Fireflies are ultimately trying to do as much good as possible in the long run if they're trying to cure as much people as they can.
The fireflies, are perhaps one of the biggest missteps this franchise ever took. The seQUEL WANTS us the think they are the good guys-except the fireflies took advantage of the a unconscious joel and Ellie to get a cure, they THREATENED joel with death upon telling him the truth (why would Marlene do this?), the doctor then did a quite stupid decision by getting in Joel’s way, they enacted a horrible decision-to kill the only living person immune to the fungus. This is quite stupid for obvious medical reasons; if Ellie dies and they can’t make a vaccine without further tests and It was for naught and they can’t replicate Ellie’s immunity. How could they then spread the vaccine? Would the vaccine be effective on non-Ellie ppl? How could they keep the vaccine a secret to avoid the government and other hostile militias? The vaccine may work but it can’t prevent fungus infected from attacking.
Man, that is top quality content. Not sure if you done this one yet, but Thomas Shelby from The Peaky Blinders seemed like a very interesting character and would really like to see your perspective.
Absolutely love your channel, keep it up ❤
Nice, your doing everyone in this video. I like your style 👍🏻
I don't know about the fireflies. Even under the assumption that a cure/vaccine was 100% possible, consider this: Ellie is immune to "turning" after gettign infected - she's not immune to the violence by the infected or by survivors (hunters, military dictatorships, vigilante "justice" etc.), she's not immune to starvation or dying of exposure etc etc.
Her immunity gives her very little benefit over a non-immune person, she still has to fear for her life on a regular basis. Same goes for any other person who'd become immune with that cure/vaccine - they will not turn if infected, but it doesn't mean they're safe or their living situation / struggle for survival improves in a significant way.
The cordiceps has already done all the damage it can do to humanity in those 20 years.
Whether you sacrifice Ellie's life now to get a cure asap - or wait some years until she dies due to some other reason, or wait until she's had offspring, it won't change much. Meanwhile, you can explore other possibilities to extract the cure. Meanwhile, she could decide to have children or donate her eggs .. which could give rise to more humans that are immune naturally. This way you don't off the only person you know to be immune. It's about maximizing options, but offing Ellie asap is the opposite: reducing your options to zero, especially if the cure fails.
As someone who lost the person I loved most in the entire world, I would have done the same thing Joel did in order to save them
I still can't unhear the narration being reminiscent of the iterations of movie recaps in UA-cam.
There's some things worth noting with Joel's choice in both the game and show.
1). In the game it's revealed by collectibles that the Fireflies have already tried several times making a cure with the same procedure as Ellie's and failed. So chances are this attempt likely would have failed as well, and Joel finding this evidence would only make him more certain he was making the right call.
2). The doctor in the second episode of the show made the suggestion to firebomb her country because she said flat out there was no way to cure this infection. Now, when a woman who has studied this science for decades with near unlimited resources says a cure is not possible; as the viewer who are you going to listen to? Her or some random doctor with very few resources and equipment who likely has no idea what he's doing. Not to mention even if he developed a vaccine, he'd have to test it and risk infecting more people.
Given what we the audience and players know, I'd say Joel made the right call. The chances of making a cure were slim at best.
This last of us video is beyond perfect I can’t thank you enough for this your channel is the shit.
Haven’t seen the show nor have I played the video game. You explained the premise so well.
In the game there were firefly notes that eluded to ellie not being unique and they have butchered more immune people without getting closer to a cure. Which was probably a part of why joel did what he did as well. I assume canon is finding everything
Yeah, the more you look into it, the more Joel is in the right up to the point where he lies to Ellie.
I love your take on post apocalyptic worlds. It would be really cool if analyzed the movie "threads" and in addition to analyzing the world and people you could treat the nuclear bomb as a character or a cruel entity
You should do a video on Fallout characters or factions. Such as Ceaser, or Mr. House from fallout New Vegas. Or some of the factions such as the Institute, Ceasers legion, Brotherhood of steel. I feel like there’s some good analyzing evil videos out there.
I think one of the themes is kind of the clash of interests of individuals vs the interests of the many, and by his strong reaction in favor of the person he loves, we start to see a sort of social mechanism which exists to keep society from crushing individuals. Even at the cost of burning society, even when there's little hope, there's something imbedded in everyone which turns against such things.
Great video, Vile Eye! I’d like to suggest ideas for future videos.
Analyzing Evil: Mike Erhmantraut (Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul and El Camino)
Analyzing Evil: The Akatsuki (Naruto)
Analyzing Evil: God of War Series
Analyzing Evil: Bane (The Dark Knight Rises)
Would love to watch your analysis of any of the antagonists from The Walking Dead. Negan, The Governor, Gareth from Terminus, Alpha, Pamela Milton or even Shane.
Analyzing Evil: Albert Wesker from Resident Evil Series
Would love to see that great idea 👍
As far as Joel saving Ellie at the potential cost of the world: I think it was the wrong choice, but not an evil one. His intentions were pure though woefully misguided. Even if the doctor was wrong, the chance to save the world is too big to pass up.
100% agreed
Problem is it was wrong for Eye to frame it as Ellie vs the World because there's no way Ellie's cure, even if it was viable, would save the world. Who at that point is dying to spores or surviving Zombie attacks after getting bitten? Not a lot of people. More than anything people are dying from malnutrition, infighting, lack of medical supplies, etc.
The cure was never going to save the world, it was a pipe dream and hell, even if it *could* save the world its pretty clear the Fireflies would have just abused their hold over the cure to become a worse tyrant than Fedra. Wether Joel considered that in his rationale or not doesn't matter, the point is he still made the right choice. Ellie could still possibly provide the cure later on in her life in a means that wouldn't kill her, or after having been properly informed of what was going to happen and being old enough to give informed consent. The Fireflies were unambiguously evil people convinced by their cause that they were the good guys and it's disappointing that Eye didn't really consider this for his video.
He was a bit evil for lying to her. He took away all her agency in the situation.
@@liesalllies Doing a bad thing doesn't mean he's evil. The intent is important.
I highly doubt a cure would "save" the world of TLoU, as almost all the conflict in the setting are over people vs people, with the Fungus infected being much more akin to incredibly lethal wildlife at this point.
I would like you to do a video on Gollum from Lord of the rings. This little guy is something else when he got the one thing he wanted for so long.
Love your content to bits! Thanks For this!
Fantastic and fair. Brilliant episode! 👏
Brilliant video as per usual, Vile (sorry for being late to it--life's been busy for me lately). You've laid a lot of groundwork here that I cannot WAIT to see you follow up on when you eventually decide to tackle Part II and its characters, especially the dueling misguided crusades (and actions) of Ellie and Abby against each other and the people both care about. Looking forward to more! :)
16:45 This is the main argument of why Joel's decision to rescue Ellie is so important. Marlene herself in the game said that the Fireflies were rapidly diminishing in numbers and moral; she said 'my people need a Win', or some such rather. This is an indication that they weren't willing to wait to see if alternatives to the lethal operation were possible, they were more interested in showing the world that they would become the saviors of humanity. Fedra would be dissolved, and the Fireflies would become the new ruling order. To those ends, they were willing to do anything at all in the quickest, most reckless way possible to achieve this before anyone else. Almost reminds me of the US-USSR space achievement wars decades ago, with the Russians leaders at last disregarding their primary engineer's concerns that the latest rocket they wanted to send into space was not safe, and the necessary tests had not been explored or performed. All that was important was showing the world who was destined to win the space race.
Lets go bby! uk what would be sick, Kevin Lomax from the devils advocate or jake gilenhall in jarhead.
I bought the last of us when it first came out, pre order and everything. Blew my mind, storyline was unlike beyond anything else I ever played before, maybe uncharted, but this felt more immersive. And the pvp was badass. I still play the first one. Pre ordered part 2, loved the mechanics, beautiful graphics, cool storyline, but tbh I wish there would have been pvp
Due to the actions of the Fireflies I don’t see them as any better than FEDRA. They turned into what they were fighting against.
As for Joel. The only thing I don’t agree with is him lying to Ellie (but what parent doesn’t lie to their kid[s]?). In the show at least, the Fireflies took away Ellie’s informed consent to the surgery, so let them burn.
My two pennies
When you're not given time to think, you're not given time to think. Such a simple statement but a very heavy notion depending the situation
Oh I like this, hopefully you continue this format
Love your account man, keep the good work up 👍
His content is amazing and insightful
If you're looking for morally gray, I recommend Vic Mackey from The Shield. I think he's a hero, but most think he is a villain.
Great to see more video game and tv show characters and stories being covered, as the last of us is one of the most profound and significant zombie stories of any medium (at least part 1 is).
Nice vid. Did you do President Snow from Hunger games yet? If not, please do.
I didnt see it in your vid list. So im guessing you didnt yet. Should be interesting.
I personally think that the Fireflies getting a cure isn't as positive if it may seem at first, and that Joel was unintentionally fully in the right to do what he did.
Even if Ellie's sacrifce worked out, even if she had the chance to choose that she wanted to give her life for this (and Joel going along with it), we have to remember that the Fireflies would essentially have a monopoly on something the whole world desires.
And if there is one thing we can draw from history and every advancement that was made for the 'greater good', humanity has always found a way to exploit it (for example financially) and at worst weaponise it. There is no reason why they shouldn't use this cure to cause chaotic riots within FEDRA-controlled area's (and even independent settlements like Tommy's) or intentionally use infected as a weapon of war now that they can 'tame' them a lot easier. Anyone can now be made to fall in line with what they deem to be right and part of their vision for a New World Order.
I think ironically Ellie's sacrifice may have lead to the most absolutely terrifiying opressive dictatorial power the world has ever seen, so eventhough I doubt this was on Joel's mind when he was saving Ellie, I think he did something that saved a lot more future lives than just Ellie's. (I won't deny it was still a horrible massacre, but it was just unavoidable at that point)
I love this content. It’s so much fun
The game is amazing. I haven't started this series yet.
Ooooh excellent video. I'd love to see a video on Vayne from FF12, or any videos about the myriad villains in Attack on Titan.
I would suggest making a video on the outlaw Ben Wade from the movie 3:10 to Yuma, played by Russel Crowe. He was a very fascinating villian
I wonder what Vile Eye would say about Lee from Telltales Walking Dead game. A very similar characters in very similar circumstances.
I know there's a lot to cover, but it would've been interesting to hear your opinion on Henry working as a collaborator in order to get leukemia medicine for Sam.
Bro can you Analyse the water street butcher from poughkeepsie tapes?
nice. saw that one for the first time last month. very twisted.
Oh man I wanna start playing this game, don't know if I should watch this yet but I love these analysis videos you make so I'm vexed 😮.
(Meh just gonna watch it 😅)
Joel is, more or less, just a survivor, like everyone else in that universe. He doesn't always make morally right decisions, but who are we to weigh his decisions against our own morals? It's easy for someone who doesn't have to fight to survive to make hasty judgements about someone else's actions. After all, we don't do that. In that line of reasoning lies a fatal flaw: literally everyone in that scenario would skin you alive if it meant they'd live for another week. We live in a cozy environment where the only thing we need to worry about is bills, food, and streaming services. Joel doesn't have that luxury. Between hoodlums, bandits, and the infected, he's fighting an uphill battle against an organized army with a pellet gun. Joel made a bad decision by taking away what is essentially the last hope of humanity, but Ellie never got a say and humanity would have to make a monumentally collaberative effort to restore itself, and you see how well that's been going. It just goes to show that the collective preservative drive of our species has some pretty dire and unintended consequences, which most attempts to restore and improve our species are ultimately in vain, anyway.