I'm beginning to realise that the main constraint on Classic maps these days is actually computer performance rather than Oxygen, so I think this is a fair point. However, for Spaced Out maps where there are less water sources (especially early on), I think this is still a very solid trait to have to make the early game easier and to let you fit more dupes onto a planet with, say, a single Steam Vent being the only Water source. Starting with three Diver's Lungs dupes is also very strong on Verdante, Arboria, and Oasisse maps where early Oxygen production can be a bit sketchy. I think it would be reasonable to bump this down to A or even B tier if you aren't trying to maximise your number of dupes due to performance issues.
Diver's lungs means that less power gets consumed, or less time is needed supplying oxygen sources like oxyferns or algae terrariums. Power efficiency can matter, especially in the early game, if playing for locavore, carnivore, and super sustainable all in the same run. Even more so if playing on max difficulty, since it's hard to conceive that the power hogging microbe musher won't get used early. Diver's lungs also implies that gas pressure below 500g, which leads to stress, might not occur as much. Lowered stress definitely can matter on maximum stress level.
AFAIK as long as you build your sinks on the exits to your toilets, germs/food poisoning never becomes an issue. By far the worst part of Glow Stick is the radiation animation nearby dupes have to perform, this alone is a massive hidden detriment; instead of working they have to do the animation & instead of hauling they have to do the animation every single cycle. I would say 1 glowstick in a colony of 99 dupes is like -7 dupes worth of labor lost to the glowstick animation.
For this reason I think a glowstick chef is best in slot. The radiation will kill off any odd germs that sneak into your food supply. The chef often works alone, so the radiation doesn't bother other dupes, and the chef will always have lit workspace :)
Loud Sleeper is really easy to deal with even early-game if you're putting your dupes on staggered schedules (which you should do anyway, because it reduces the number of toilets you need). Simply ensure neither of their barrack neighbours are sleeping at the same time. This takes a few seconds to correctly assign beds and/or schedules, and then you never have to care again. Narcolepsy can potentially be mitigated to an extent, because the dupe will recover stamina during their nap just as though they'd slept "normally" without a bed. If you're aligning your sleep schedules so that your dupes are always waking as soon as they hit 100% stamina (rather than waiting for the end of their bedtime schedule), your narcoleptic dupes will wake sooner than non-narcoleptic dupes on the same schedule. This makes up for a lot of the work-time loss.
The best case for starry eye is for your initial dupe going to space for databanks before you can pimp out the rocket with pixel packs or supply really good food.
Unconstructive is even worse than it looks - at least last time I checked, not only could a dupe with the trait not build, they also couldn't _Construction Dig._ Getting them to help with building required the dig and construction phases to be ordered separately.
Duress To Impress gets a significant boost on higher morale-difficulty settings. On Frankly Depressing, no matter how high their morale gets, the stress reduction will _at most_ cancel out the natural gains, so the only reduction you get over time without building things specifically to achieve that is when they're sleeping. As a result, even the slightest cause of stress (morale being below total +2, Soggy Feet, Popped Eardrums… the early game is especially relevant here) tends to accumulate. This means you spend a lot more time with dupes having detectable stress levels (and a lot more time with them destressing at massage tables, potentially). At that point, it comes into play way more often. These settings have a similar impact on the usefulness of Sunny Disposition.
Also with Bottomless Stomach your dupe takes longer to eat, which can cause problems with schedules designed for non-gluttons. Also, got to love those transporter accidents that give your colony 1.5 dupes...
I just noticed the vibrant aquarium you have to your side. Looks impressive. And the tier list was very interesting discussion as well. I love getting bottomless stomach (because it adds a lot to the attribute value) and divers lungs (because “duh”). Getting a researcher with both in early game is my favorite mix
I routinely play Flatulent-only runs where the goal is to actually use and harness their smelly power for good. Yes it becomes a lot harder to build vacuums and weak liquid locks can be broken, making atmo suits all the more necessary, but I find the extra design to be an added flavor to the game. Sadly, with how many traits there are getting to be, these days I have to rely on mods to ensure I can find these dups when I want them.
Generally agree except for diver's lungs and mouth breather. In my playthroughs oxygen is abundant during the late game so mouth breather and diver's lungs have essentially no impact except for rocket missions. I tend not to take more than 20 dupes total as the limiting factor for me is frame rate. Quick learner is my preferred trait as this skills up dupes more quickly.
56:59 Doesn’t this also halve the air supply in O2 masks and Atmo suits? If so, they really can’t do too much where there isn’t a good concentration of O2.
Kitchen menace is S tier. Not only is it a *significant* morale bonus, it means you *don't* have another negative trait. That's huge. The morale bonus isn't "this dupe isn't ever going to get stressed." The morale bonus is "I can give this dupe extra skills and have them be on the same stress management plan as everyone else. Shriveled tastebuds is almost as good, but it takes away another positive trait instead of a negative one, so I can see an argument for A tier. Except those rare occasions when you find a dupe with both. THOSE dupes are god tier. They get all the skills.
Gourmet feels worse than glow stick. Glow stick is only really the opportunity cost of a positive trait at worst as their rads are so low and aids early game where you’re most vulnerable. Beyond that it’s just a fun trait with nyctophobic or radiation eater (although they merged the rad eater combo sadly). I think just for the fun it’s slightly better than things like gourmet and caregiver.
One heavy downside of yokel that you didn't seem to have taken into account, is you can't get the science skill ever with it, so no science bonus to help skill up your dupe. For me it would be a bottom D tier, as I would still pick it up on some dupe that wouldn't need much skill up, or if I really, really need the other traits that it have.
This is true! I've discovered that I usually end up taking Research skills on most Dupes late game for the attribute levelling bonus, so this does nerf the rate of attribute gain for a Dupe in the late game. I would probably put this in C tier in hindsight, as by the time the downside kicks in, it usually isn't getting in the way as much as, say, Unconstructive.
I think small bladder is +0.2%/cycle not a flat 0.2%, the pee breaks are more often the longer you play. So after 100 cycles, it's 20% and after 200 cycles, it's 40%.
I've never seen those appear together. I'm pretty sure that they're mutually exclusively (much like trait pairings that would cancel out, such as Slow Learner and Quick Learner, or Buff and Noodle Arms, or Caregiver and Unempathetic). That being said, it could be interesting to (for example) have a "dream farm" consisting of pajama-clad dupes where half were nyctophobic rad-eaters and the other half were glow sticks - dream-journal generation with less food input and no lighting requirement would be quite the combination.
Yes, although it is now required for using some machines such as the Clothing Refashionator and Artifact Analysis Station, so it's not entirely useless.
I've checked this out on my most recent stream and it seems like this was a bug that they have subsequently fixed, so they are getting the boosts to eating / pissing speed again.
You don't need a million Dupes. After a fashion Dupes are pretty much worthless. You're automated everything. Dupes are doing nothing but eating and sucking air. Diver Lungs is worthless. Even on a starting Dupe really. If you get it ok. Fine it doesn't hurt you at all. But to pick it over another Dupe because it has it I don't. Some of the seating I'd question. But they are mid-max things. For the most part you'll never see the difference and should be put lower over other things. The Dupe that falls asleep it pretty much worthless. They could be carrying something and fall asleep carrying something. Drop It and break a liquid lock ruining your day. Fall asleep and before you know they are dying if they fallen asleep in a bad area. I'd never take a Dupe ever who falls asleep. A farting Dupe is an interesting one. I'd never do it ever but 8 of them is a free Natural Gas generator running 24/7 on just them. 800 watts totally free. Again, I'd never do it but a colony with nothing, but those dupes would be interesting. 32 Dupes (why you ever want that many is silly but) would be 2400 watts of free power just from farting Dupes.
I think there are two styles of playing that I've seen with this game. One is having a smaller number of dupes and completing large building projects over many cycles on speed 3. The other is having a larger number of dupes and building projects faster on speed 1 but with more difficulty due to higher resource consumption. I've ended up falling in the second style because I don't like how individual dupe performance starts to get weird on higher speeds after a while, where they just ponder instead of doing tasks. So for me, I always try to run as many dupes as possible primarily so that digging and building projects can be completed quickly. And for this style of play, being able to have an extra dupe or two off of the same amount of Oxygen, especially in the early game, helps me out. I think with the possible exceptions of increased Athletics, Construction, or Digging, I would almost always want an extra 25% of a dupe for the same Oxygen in the early game. This is less relevant if you run less dupes for a longer period of time and play things out over more cycles, so I can see why this is a bit subjective. For the Flatulent dupes, I haven't tried this either (LOL), but the wiki says that Flatulent dupes produce about 4 g/s on average. So you could run a 90g/s Natural Gas generator off of 23 dupes if you could pump and filter the gas efficiently. I think it can be a usable trait on a dedicated run where you build the infrastructure specifically around this, and you'll have the benefits of these dupes having more attribute points as well. But it's not really a huge amount of power either when you can just build a couple of Coal Generators early on, so I don't think such a run would ever be optimal.
What kind of dupe count do you design you base with 300+? Oxygen is not an issue, Food is not an issue. The major problem with dupes is travel times and heat and that is the only thing that you should ever be concerned about, if you can't make enough oxygen or food, you might want to start watching ONI videos instead of making them.
I think you have more viewers if you made shorter videos. Same content just cut the longer video up into shorter ones. Today's players see a 3+ hour video and they'll never watch it missing out on what you are showing. But cut that video up into six 30 minutes blocks and they will. Same content overall but not the shock off 3+ hours staring them in the face. You made interesting stuff, but it turns off people seeing that 3+ hours on most your stuff. It's why most guys who get a lot of viewers make their videos about 30 minutes. Same content overall cut into more bite size pieces at 30 each over one huge block of the same content in one 3+ hour video.
This is an interesting idea. I've seen GCFungus split their stream videos into 1 hour chunks to upload to UA-cam so that could be an option. But I also play the game quite slowly so I want to make sure that I don't end up with any "empty" videos where I'm mostly talking to chat or waiting for something. I'd really like to make edited shorter videos that highlight key stream moments but I don't have the time.
@@erisia_gaming some more thoughts on that, i don't mind long videos, I'll just watch them in chunks but i don't have the free time to spend on "empty" videos. To put it into perspective i have about 3hours of free time per day in which i also have to take care of my chores, showers and what not. So watching unedited content always feels somewhat bad because i want to get to the good parts. I really love editing videos for that reason. Long unedited videos are something I'll only really watch to fall asleep too.
not sure if diver lung is that good. Beside from put them in rocket where O2 is limited, we normally produce too many O2 in late game anyways.
I'm beginning to realise that the main constraint on Classic maps these days is actually computer performance rather than Oxygen, so I think this is a fair point. However, for Spaced Out maps where there are less water sources (especially early on), I think this is still a very solid trait to have to make the early game easier and to let you fit more dupes onto a planet with, say, a single Steam Vent being the only Water source. Starting with three Diver's Lungs dupes is also very strong on Verdante, Arboria, and Oasisse maps where early Oxygen production can be a bit sketchy. I think it would be reasonable to bump this down to A or even B tier if you aren't trying to maximise your number of dupes due to performance issues.
Diver's lungs means that less power gets consumed, or less time is needed supplying oxygen sources like oxyferns or algae terrariums. Power efficiency can matter, especially in the early game, if playing for locavore, carnivore, and super sustainable all in the same run. Even more so if playing on max difficulty, since it's hard to conceive that the power hogging microbe musher won't get used early. Diver's lungs also implies that gas pressure below 500g, which leads to stress, might not occur as much. Lowered stress definitely can matter on maximum stress level.
GlowStick - radiation have desinfect property, one duplicant per base can desinfect sters, food poisoning, slimlung toilets etc.
this
AFAIK as long as you build your sinks on the exits to your toilets, germs/food poisoning never becomes an issue. By far the worst part of Glow Stick is the radiation animation nearby dupes have to perform, this alone is a massive hidden detriment; instead of working they have to do the animation & instead of hauling they have to do the animation every single cycle.
I would say 1 glowstick in a colony of 99 dupes is like -7 dupes worth of labor lost to the glowstick animation.
@@prototype21 very interesting, thx
For this reason I think a glowstick chef is best in slot. The radiation will kill off any odd germs that sneak into your food supply. The chef often works alone, so the radiation doesn't bother other dupes, and the chef will always have lit workspace :)
Glow stick is the best trait ever. They even pee faster lol
Glowstick is A tier, as the dupe GIVES OFF LIGHT. that means no matter what they do, they get the +15% Well Lit bonus.
Loud Sleeper is really easy to deal with even early-game if you're putting your dupes on staggered schedules (which you should do anyway, because it reduces the number of toilets you need). Simply ensure neither of their barrack neighbours are sleeping at the same time. This takes a few seconds to correctly assign beds and/or schedules, and then you never have to care again.
Narcolepsy can potentially be mitigated to an extent, because the dupe will recover stamina during their nap just as though they'd slept "normally" without a bed. If you're aligning your sleep schedules so that your dupes are always waking as soon as they hit 100% stamina (rather than waiting for the end of their bedtime schedule), your narcoleptic dupes will wake sooner than non-narcoleptic dupes on the same schedule. This makes up for a lot of the work-time loss.
The best case for starry eye is for your initial dupe going to space for databanks before you can pimp out the rocket with pixel packs or supply really good food.
Unconstructive is even worse than it looks - at least last time I checked, not only could a dupe with the trait not build, they also couldn't _Construction Dig._ Getting them to help with building required the dig and construction phases to be ordered separately.
Duress To Impress gets a significant boost on higher morale-difficulty settings. On Frankly Depressing, no matter how high their morale gets, the stress reduction will _at most_ cancel out the natural gains, so the only reduction you get over time without building things specifically to achieve that is when they're sleeping. As a result, even the slightest cause of stress (morale being below total +2, Soggy Feet, Popped Eardrums… the early game is especially relevant here) tends to accumulate. This means you spend a lot more time with dupes having detectable stress levels (and a lot more time with them destressing at massage tables, potentially). At that point, it comes into play way more often. These settings have a similar impact on the usefulness of Sunny Disposition.
Also with Bottomless Stomach your dupe takes longer to eat, which can cause problems with schedules designed for non-gluttons. Also, got to love those transporter accidents that give your colony 1.5 dupes...
The extra eating time is something I hadn't considered, that's quite interesting. Definitely warrants a lit dining hall.
I just noticed the vibrant aquarium you have to your side. Looks impressive. And the tier list was very interesting discussion as well. I love getting bottomless stomach (because it adds a lot to the attribute value) and divers lungs (because “duh”). Getting a researcher with both in early game is my favorite mix
I routinely play Flatulent-only runs where the goal is to actually use and harness their smelly power for good. Yes it becomes a lot harder to build vacuums and weak liquid locks can be broken, making atmo suits all the more necessary, but I find the extra design to be an added flavor to the game. Sadly, with how many traits there are getting to be, these days I have to rely on mods to ensure I can find these dups when I want them.
extra "flavour" from the dupes XD
I love running a Glow Stick only run, these guys are 15% better at everything, even peeing! And they don't even need to wash their hands afterwards!
Glow stick cook can get rid of any and all food poisoning forever. it is pretty good on especially an early game cook
Generally agree except for diver's lungs and mouth breather. In my playthroughs oxygen is abundant during the late game so mouth breather and diver's lungs have essentially no impact except for rocket missions. I tend not to take more than 20 dupes total as the limiting factor for me is frame rate. Quick learner is my preferred trait as this skills up dupes more quickly.
56:59 Doesn’t this also halve the air supply in O2 masks and Atmo suits? If so, they really can’t do too much where there isn’t a good concentration of O2.
I was thinking of doing a tier list like this. i'm hyped!
I love seeing other people's tier lists. It's very interesting to see which elements people generally agree or disagree on.
good tier list. o2 is the main determent to most colonies
My is my PC CPU :(
Kitchen menace is S tier. Not only is it a *significant* morale bonus, it means you *don't* have another negative trait. That's huge. The morale bonus isn't "this dupe isn't ever going to get stressed." The morale bonus is "I can give this dupe extra skills and have them be on the same stress management plan as everyone else.
Shriveled tastebuds is almost as good, but it takes away another positive trait instead of a negative one, so I can see an argument for A tier.
Except those rare occasions when you find a dupe with both. THOSE dupes are god tier. They get all the skills.
Gourmet feels worse than glow stick. Glow stick is only really the opportunity cost of a positive trait at worst as their rads are so low and aids early game where you’re most vulnerable. Beyond that it’s just a fun trait with nyctophobic or radiation eater (although they merged the rad eater combo sadly). I think just for the fun it’s slightly better than things like gourmet and caregiver.
One heavy downside of yokel that you didn't seem to have taken into account, is you can't get the science skill ever with it, so no science bonus to help skill up your dupe.
For me it would be a bottom D tier, as I would still pick it up on some dupe that wouldn't need much skill up, or if I really, really need the other traits that it have.
This is true! I've discovered that I usually end up taking Research skills on most Dupes late game for the attribute levelling bonus, so this does nerf the rate of attribute gain for a Dupe in the late game. I would probably put this in C tier in hindsight, as by the time the downside kicks in, it usually isn't getting in the way as much as, say, Unconstructive.
small bladder should be F, sometimes it makes dup give up task and run back to base during mid schedule. that 50%slower bathroom time is no problem.
Thank you. Very useful informations :)
Any of the researching skills are a little better end game nowadays due to geotuning and whatnot
quick learner is a or s as it speed up not only sci stat but learning other stat like running
I think small bladder is +0.2%/cycle not a flat 0.2%, the pee breaks are more often the longer you play. So after 100 cycles, it's 20% and after 200 cycles, it's 40%.
does glowstick dude kill germs when they walk by slimelung biome?
Glow stick is pretty bad if you play on max difficulty settings. Idk but for me my dupe kept getting radiation sickness. idk why.
oh an otzdarva for dbd, nice analysis.
In those kind of game you are unfortunately always limited by USP. Not by any in game mechanic/ressource.
STARRY EYE has no downside, you broke your rule there. C tier
Outside of the first few cycles, oxygen isn't really ever a concern to me. Twinkletoes stomps all over it.
how about Glowstick and Radiation Eater
@11:25 he talks about glow stick.
I've never seen those appear together. I'm pretty sure that they're mutually exclusively (much like trait pairings that would cancel out, such as Slow Learner and Quick Learner, or Buff and Noodle Arms, or Caregiver and Unempathetic).
That being said, it could be interesting to (for example) have a "dream farm" consisting of pajama-clad dupes where half were nyctophobic rad-eaters and the other half were glow sticks - dream-journal generation with less food input and no lighting requirement would be quite the combination.
I dunno if it is intentional, but aesthetic design is completely pointless, because you still need the first skill for the dupe to sculpt or paint.
Yes, although it is now required for using some machines such as the Clothing Refashionator and Artifact Analysis Station, so it's not entirely useless.
Lights don't increase bathroom use speed anymore
I've checked this out on my most recent stream and it seems like this was a bug that they have subsequently fixed, so they are getting the boosts to eating / pissing speed again.
@@erisia_gaming sweet I'll have to start putting lights in my dining room and bathroom again
You don't need a million Dupes. After a fashion Dupes are pretty much worthless. You're automated everything. Dupes are doing nothing but eating and sucking air. Diver Lungs is worthless. Even on a starting Dupe really. If you get it ok. Fine it doesn't hurt you at all. But to pick it over another Dupe because it has it I don't. Some of the seating I'd question. But they are mid-max things. For the most part you'll never see the difference and should be put lower over other things. The Dupe that falls asleep it pretty much worthless. They could be carrying something and fall asleep carrying something. Drop It and break a liquid lock ruining your day. Fall asleep and before you know they are dying if they fallen asleep in a bad area. I'd never take a Dupe ever who falls asleep. A farting Dupe is an interesting one. I'd never do it ever but 8 of them is a free Natural Gas generator running 24/7 on just them. 800 watts totally free. Again, I'd never do it but a colony with nothing, but those dupes would be interesting. 32 Dupes (why you ever want that many is silly but) would be 2400 watts of free power just from farting Dupes.
I think there are two styles of playing that I've seen with this game. One is having a smaller number of dupes and completing large building projects over many cycles on speed 3. The other is having a larger number of dupes and building projects faster on speed 1 but with more difficulty due to higher resource consumption. I've ended up falling in the second style because I don't like how individual dupe performance starts to get weird on higher speeds after a while, where they just ponder instead of doing tasks. So for me, I always try to run as many dupes as possible primarily so that digging and building projects can be completed quickly. And for this style of play, being able to have an extra dupe or two off of the same amount of Oxygen, especially in the early game, helps me out. I think with the possible exceptions of increased Athletics, Construction, or Digging, I would almost always want an extra 25% of a dupe for the same Oxygen in the early game. This is less relevant if you run less dupes for a longer period of time and play things out over more cycles, so I can see why this is a bit subjective.
For the Flatulent dupes, I haven't tried this either (LOL), but the wiki says that Flatulent dupes produce about 4 g/s on average. So you could run a 90g/s Natural Gas generator off of 23 dupes if you could pump and filter the gas efficiently. I think it can be a usable trait on a dedicated run where you build the infrastructure specifically around this, and you'll have the benefits of these dupes having more attribute points as well. But it's not really a huge amount of power either when you can just build a couple of Coal Generators early on, so I don't think such a run would ever be optimal.
What kind of dupe count do you design you base with 300+?
Oxygen is not an issue, Food is not an issue. The major problem with dupes is travel times and heat and that is the only thing that you should ever be concerned about, if you can't make enough oxygen or food, you might want to start watching ONI videos instead of making them.
sen ne anlatıyon abi abla be?
I think you have more viewers if you made shorter videos. Same content just cut the longer video up into shorter ones. Today's players see a 3+ hour video and they'll never watch it missing out on what you are showing. But cut that video up into six 30 minutes blocks and they will. Same content overall but not the shock off 3+ hours staring them in the face. You made interesting stuff, but it turns off people seeing that 3+ hours on most your stuff. It's why most guys who get a lot of viewers make their videos about 30 minutes. Same content overall cut into more bite size pieces at 30 each over one huge block of the same content in one 3+ hour video.
This is an interesting idea. I've seen GCFungus split their stream videos into 1 hour chunks to upload to UA-cam so that could be an option. But I also play the game quite slowly so I want to make sure that I don't end up with any "empty" videos where I'm mostly talking to chat or waiting for something. I'd really like to make edited shorter videos that highlight key stream moments but I don't have the time.
@@erisia_gaming some more thoughts on that, i don't mind long videos, I'll just watch them in chunks but i don't have the free time to spend on "empty" videos. To put it into perspective i have about 3hours of free time per day in which i also have to take care of my chores, showers and what not. So watching unedited content always feels somewhat bad because i want to get to the good parts. I really love editing videos for that reason.
Long unedited videos are something I'll only really watch to fall asleep too.
i watched it end-to-end and really appreciated the completeness.