Hey Jerry! Thanks a lot for the review and the advise as well! Since these matches I studied quite a bit of MMA, but mostly I really love BJJ. I got my purple belt in 10th Planet JJ last October. I will be releasing more of these sparring matches because I have loads of them and I just started doing Wing Chun again after about a 2 year break. Once I get my technique sharp I plan to make more sparring videos. Quick question, what was that plugin type thing you had at 11:05? It looks really useful. Thanks again man, love your videos! Keep 'em coming
No, that will NEVER happen. A boxer is a master in hitting moving Targets. Poking your fucking eye, when you staying in a wing chun stance is easy as breaving. So pleas fuck your Wing Chun relligion and safe your bull shit.@@asmdesign1956
@@asmdesign1956 Bas Rutten has a funny video talking about some traditional martial artists that showed up at his classes saying they can fight off a choke with eye pokes. Its not as easy as you think to poke an eye when grappling. He even said to them i am going to let you poke me in the eyes, just know that if you do i am going to snap your neck. Nobody took the chance needless to say. Bas rutten vs ninjas was the video
@Johnny Vincent No, a bad technique is a bad technique. The individual fighter can't take a technique that is inherently flawed and make it work. There are numerous kung fu techniques that would be legal in a boxing match, but you would never see them used because they simply aren't effective. As far as a kung fu guy beating a boxer, it can happen, if the boxer isn't that skilled or simply doesn't know how to defend a kick. Also, did the kung fu guy actually use kung fu? Or did he just use what amounts to kickboxing as happens in so many of those situations?
@Johnny Vincent That's not simple proof, those are just theoretical scenarios you invented in your head. More concrete evidence is the fact that you don't see more kung fu specific techniques in high level competition, even when said techniques would be perfectly legal within the rules. If it was about the practitioner and not the style, why would we even have mma or train in different styles? Couldn't you just stick to one style and become highly proficient? There would be no need to add anything to a style since the skill of the practitioner is the sole factor.
@Johnny Vincent I never said you didn't know anything or had no experience. Your resorting to personal attacks just shows you had no real rebuttle to my arguments. Again, since you have such vast experiance. Answer my question, why is there even a need for mixing martial arts if the practitioner is the only factor that matters? What does a style gain from another style?
Dudes tough - lots of heart (fighter’s). Fights using Wing Chun too. I would work on sprawl (Chuck Liddell style) if I was him. Keep fight on feet where he can bang with his WC.
I'm liking this a lot. The Wing Chun guy seems decently conditioned and has good fight intelligence, and this is one of the rare times where things like the "bong sau" technique (0:04) is actually seen working to parry a punch. Safe controlled sparring should be a mandatory part of all martial arts schools, especially the "traditional" ones; because it's tests like these that really bring out what works. I didn't have that at my WC school, and it was one of the reasons I never went back. Sparring on my own taught me much more after learning all the forms.
Jisue Ortiz Not really sad, there has been alot of fights where the Wing Chun fighter get destroyed but this Wing Chun fighter actually got some muscles on him and can take some hits to the face.
DragonPlays in the first second of the video, you can clearly see the mma guy in sweat an tired like state an the gloves he wore also take some energy( I've used them in sparring session) an yet you say the wc did well?. Like WTF is wrong with you, that's like having someone run a marathon 3/4 of it than having some ass pop out of nowhere an finished for the first runner an saying "well that took him a lot of work". I've worked out than do pad work an my punches aren't as strong as I would've just done my pad work first than work out( my friend told me).
DragonPlays also the guy had muscles? What I'm 20 an have bigger muscles than him but that doesn't mean I'm tough. I was a scrubby kid who got into more fights than I do now. Bodybuilders are better in their field of strength than the field of power.
LOL you taking things too seriously I never said that the MMA is bad or lost, MMA is better than Wing Chun full stop. my first comment is just giving a rare compliment to a WC that did well AGAINST a MMA fighter so yes that is fucking rare and I expected MMA guy to win easy with no effort but yes he looked tired fair point. He is the ONLY WC fighter that look in shape with some muscles - most are always skinny or fat and cant take a hit before they get floored.
You cant use half of it in sports fighting unless they let eye gouges fish hooks groin strikes throat strikes and temple shots in the sport they might aswell bring back real gladiatorial combat if they did that guy also has done fuck all krav maga he just looks like a barfighter having a spat over a woman or spilled drink he has zero training and his aggression is non existent
@@weirdscience8341 Temple shots are absolutely allowed in most striking-based combat sports. Do you expect someone to magically avoid the spot while boxing someone else up?
@@weirdscience8341 Any time someone tries to pretend that the reason exactly zero pro-fighters use their favorite fighting style because "it's too deadly to use", you know they're full of shit. Krav Maga is 10% substance, 90% hype. And the reason nobody uses it instead of BBJ is because BBJ is superior in every measurable fashion. Most of the techniques that Krav Maga fanboys claim disqualify it from being used in competition are, in fact, perfectly legal in competition.
@@sigerlion8608 Wing Chun is laughably ineffective, and incapable of killing anyone because it has no power. And because practitioners of it typically drill by fighting motionless training dummies or playing pattycake with each other in cooperative, rehearsed drills. Never against resisting opponents actually trying to injure them. Which is why Wing Chun has been used to win a fight exactly zero times. It's very telling that the Wing Chun practitioner in this video, who does surprisingly well, isn't using Wing Chun for the overwhelming majority of the fight.
I did KRAV MAGA for 4 years and really loved it but its a "STARTER SYSTEM". Its like a mix of Karate and Boxing. ITs a starter system. From there I went on for 4 years of MT . Now I am doing no-gi BJJ and a little wrestling. KRAV MAGA is not based on timing and its gross motor skills while BJJ is like Calculus lol. MT just depends on your shin bones
Toys_4_U! Toys4U! 😂😂😂 Aikido depends on acting skills and your opponents willingness to do what they are told during a fight. Unless you’re Luke Skywalker, invisible forces won’t do much in a real fight.
popasmuerf This guy visits where I trained for two weeks every year. What do you think? Should I sue him? His name is Itay Gil. His career has seen him in places you and I would die. ua-cam.com/video/PbSxL3-S_1w/v-deo.html
thank you! The form of his punches were beyond sloppy. Like I get it Krav Maga is a combative system and is designed to be effective, and brutal, not pretty. But this was just like a damn street fight on the KM guys end.
did about 2-3 y of KM never have i been taught to keep my arms like that, also at least in my school they rly didn;t like flashy moves like the spin back kick. We learned a lot of control moves he could have used in grapling, did not look like he had any krav maga in him, mb he just went to a few classes or he is just bad.
Wing Chun isn't bad. It just needs to be practiced in a realistic setting and sparring with other martial arts. Need to get away from traditional thinking outside of getting basics down. Need to be more explosive with strikes. I know a lot of guys that prove what I'm saying
varanid9 well so does boxing, Muay Thai, taekwondo, etc but that doesn't really matter in the regard of the kosher martial art being used against others in the context of ring sport or self defense
Fighting style is important in how efficient the technique is and how effective. Also in how easy it is learn, in a word, simplicity. Wing chun checks all the boxes. But style and technique cant make you a fighter. You can learn all the forms you want but if you don't have the instinct you're gonna get your ass kicked. Thia guy is talented AND well trained.
Unfortunately, it is a problem that a lot of wing chun schools have. I don't know why, but the "traditional" motions like tan and pak sao don't include head cover, which I believe was probably part of early Wing Chun when it was taught as self defense for women, if the mythos of Wing Chun is to be believed.
Rafael Roquemore Oh wow we got a real braniac here. Repeating my words but slightly different, how quaint. Skillfully disregards my allusion to the mythos surrounding the history of Wing Chun, which has various versions, some of which claim it was designed for and taught to women. Boy, really got me there Poindexter.
You're a dumbass who never trained Krav Maga or never made it past Level 1 with the other Noobs and women & weak men, that usually populates the Krav classes. Krav Maga starts looking exactly like MMA Lite, starting from Level 2 and above.
Bryan Fong @sandaboxing is a piece of shit who doesn’t know what a real fight is. He just goes and plays with little pieces of shit and calls that fighting
Blackpowderkun yes exactly counter ground fighting or antigrappling, just watch the footage from the Movie when Donnie Yen grapple Mike Tyson.. Seemed Tyson want to use illegal pugilism technique tackle continued into killer mounted punches but Donnie Yen counter it so the fighting just not more than 3 minutes in the ground... I have a friend who practise TMA said in real street fight do not do ground and pound more than 3 minutes because there are strong possibilities someone will sucker punch you from behind...
They actually have a lot of grappling defense built into the wooden dummy form. Not sure if all of it is effective though, but the footwork for some of the wooden dummy sets is specifically lower stances to help defend against grappling.
@@thesandmanquotes4756 old comment but I will chime in. WC ground fighting is actually largely aimed at desperate measures to end it quickly. The grappling game is an acknowledged weakness. Elbows to the spine and head for example, are the taught escapes. Those elbows are actually about the only elbow strikes the system has, and are among the last to be taught. The ground game seems to be expanding today though, I see more jiu jitsu form being practiced in my limited research. WC does have specific methods taught for gap closing, because it is a close combat system(versus ranged systems like TKD) and this was problematic against takedown systems like bjj(it is surprisingly even against some Judo moves, as wing chun does well at upper body control-we see that a little in the video). That definitely stems from the wooden dummy training as mentioned here, and some exercises like chi sau. I hope WC evolves more and we get to see more mainstream fighters in the future.
@@danielmiller2357 that’s interesting… my cifu is 3rd generation Duncan Leon WC. Ironically, it was specifically the wooden dummy forms where anti grappling was taught (they demonstrated it too via their senior students). Beyond the staff form, knife form… and three fighting forms, I have not known or heard of a wing Chun grappling technique (or other part of the WC system). When it comes to upper body and lower body, including ground fighting, I’d prefer southern praying mantis to WC by a huge long shot
Ever seen a Jeet Kune Do guy from an Inosanto school? They train in something of a Jeet Kune Do-based MMA. They combine Bruce Lee's Jun Fan(condensed Wing-Chun, Hung Gar, Boxing, fencing, Taekwondo) with Silat, Kali, Eskrima, Muay Thai, and BJJ. Sounds like a lot of stuff. But they manage to condense it down into an "essentials only" system.
It is effective. At my wing chun class we sparred. And because i do other arts i got to test it. I could hold my own against competing boxers and karate guys. For some reason wing chun in particular just has so many crap teachers
Sparring is essential if you want to build actual fighting skills man... I hope at least... it will look like Wing Chun and not just boxing or thai boxing... ill get back to sparring in a few months and post some more videos then ;)
Problem with a lot of mma guys is that they don't seem to utilize the clinch when they can. There are many moments in the fight where the mma guy could have melted the wing chun guy with knees and punches (cuz I'm assuming elbows were banned for this fight) from the clinch or just frustrated him with the clinch that's also a viable tactic. Look how successful Anderson Silva was against rich franklin using the clinch. It's a very underrated (at least in mma) yet effective tactic that people just seem to ignore. A few years ago when I was just doing Muay Thai I could even outwork extremely talented and experienced wrestlers in the clinch. Maybe knees were illegal in this fight but still man the clinch is extremely effective and I think all mma guys should have it in their arsenals, I especially think so now after training and competing in mma. I don't know dawg maybe I'm biased but... clinching works. I'm not just saying this for this fighter but I mean in general. This dude obviously found success on the ground and was maybe too scared to engage in the clinch in case the wing chun guy was proficient in it.
SneezyAnus mma is such a broad term.. there are so many styles that can turn out different along with personal behaviors.. to much variety in mma you can't exactly pinpoint mma except the fact that they both know stand up and ground. To many combinations of different styles.
mma means they took 3 styles boxing/thai and bjj and mixed them, and they call it the abomination it is now. ''mma'' funny though most mma guys have shitty technique, rediculous low level reflexes etc. i laugh my ass while i train 3 different martial arts not ''mma'' like some fucking inbred watched some ufc and thinks the shit is mma. hahah and nowadays they call mma a martial art which is not.
He wasnt my friend at all... he basically came to Dojo storm us... showed up and tried to take peoples heads off.... I gave him a few and well... he didnt come back
The best wing Chun fighter I have ever seen (on UA-cam) . No style is bad, if you learn with a practical approach. Doing moves in air only polish your demonstration skills but if you wanna make your move effective, you have to spar with your partner. MMA fighters spar a lot n get Confidence to fight an opponent. One more thing wing Chun fighhters must work on their grounds bcoz it's easy to take them down (we can see in this vdo)... This guy is applying his skills which is a nice thing 👏👏...
As a capoeirista, that roll away by the wing chub guy was amazing. It's effortless to corkscrew your way up. You can tell he's done it a million times.
problem with all this groundfighting is when his friend runs up and starts kicking you in the head, which is why back in the days of swords and battlefields people were taught being on the ground is dangerous, it will get you killed
So nice to see a wing chun fighter that doesn’t just collapse down into instinctual fighting as soon as the fight gets intense. Although, it’s worth pointing out, the only technique that approximated a KO was a jiujitsu technique
Tyler Casselman we appreciate you. It takes a lot of guts to go put it on the line on video, especially with so many recent high profile losses, but the information we see here helps us figure out what works and what doesn’t. It’s tremendously useful from a research perspective.
I practice three martial arts and then people talk shit about how "MMA" is better even though "mixed" means nothing in particular and what I do is definitely mixed martial arts
Fist scrap was fantastic but the way he went into guard instantly tells me hes had a few bjj lessons he even went back into position on the mat when they reset it
I practice MMA and spent 6 years practising wing chun before. I have found it has its place in MMA but you cant use pure wing chun vs mma, you need muy thai, judo BJJ and grappling to be the total fighter
exactly, it's the essence of JKD, just learning whatever you can to fight against any style. To be able to adapt and have the style of no style but taking what works and discarding the rest.
His shortcoming as a practitioner comes out early on. He goes in and crowds him, makes him drop his hands twice. But he doesn’t even try to capitalize on it. Instead of doing whatever he can to dominate, he just bounces back out. I think you mentioned the clinch. What good is hundreds of hours of chi sao if you’re not exploring clinches? He played the MMA guys game. But he did well, better than Most. I find wing chun works much better with extreme aggression. If you sit back and try to pop in, pop out, and Chase the hands, it’s not equipped for that in and out game. Incorporate clinching and elbows into your chi sao if you’re a wing chun guy. He does a little bit of clinching in the second match. That was good. He even got a little throw counter in.
The thing I find hilarious about WC watchers and bashers is that they think WC being used is not WC if it doesn't look like Chi Sau and wooden dummy techniques. For a bad but viable example, Ip Man movie. How many times does Donnie Yen use supposed non-WC ideas. The answer is over 50%. What you will notice, if you pay attention, is that many techniques used come from crane and snake forms. Wing Chun is tie together of them with the main tie being the counter balancing art that is used in the wooden dummy and the brick shithouse centerline stance concepts. Wing Chun is not about direct force, it's about angular attack while you are centered and your opponent is off centered.
There are lots of wing chun schools but in the early 00s the European wing tsun association made a ground fighting program called not "anti-grappling." Emin Boztepe and Keith Kernspech designed it. They both had past experience in greco-roman and turkish wrestling. The ground game the wing chun fighter is of the same philosophy. I don't know the fighter, what he trains, school, etc, so this is just a guess.
be it I they are not the only ones doing attempts to addapt Wing Chun tobthe ground. Even I found 1 Sifu that say Wing Chun included thise techniques originally... and ge show good skills.
there's a distinct lack of respect from people on both sides of the debate. for MMA and Combat sports styles, they do not respect the evolution of different martial arts for different environments. all they care about is the myth of the so called 'invincible' fighter who can handle all-comers, in or out of the ring. anything else is crap or bullshido. ignoring the fact that even MMA professionals have been beaten up, gang banged in the street when they try to take that attitude to outside the ring, sometimes by thugs who have no martial arts training. then they complain about being ambushed, ganged up, blindsided by cowards with weapons, who won't face them fair and square. in a place like the ring. ironically. on the other side, we have traditionalists who live in the past glories of their great great great great grand teachers, ignoring the fact that each of these great founders had to face many challengers in their time while today they keep arguing about the value of peace and so on. they put no value on sparring, when the ring proponents actually have a very good point. sparring regularly is the only way that get you used to hitting and getting hit in a free form environment where the opponent is ready and prepared to go at you with full force. that's why even amateurs in combat sports can sometimes surprise and overwhelm experienced traditional martial artists who don't train for this situation. it is a big blind spot. they are right to criticise traditional martial artists who look down on this part of their training. it is results oriented, not based on theories or tradition. the only problem is combat sports junkies go overboard exaggerating it's importance in the real world. they say it's best for self defense, when they don't teach about conflict escalation, or the psychology of street violence, legal rights of self protection or situational awareness. they say their techniques are the only realistic ones that work everywhere, ignoring the dangers of going to ground in environments with lots of sharp corners and obstacles. or punching someone in the face without gloves. or taking their time to do limb destruction and body blows when they don't know how long they got until the guy has a truckload of buddies come by. or doing high risk roundhouse kicks where they can easily fall down with no referee nearby, and think it's OK cos they know ground defense until someone picks up a chair and smashes it on them. or grappling someone when they don't have protection on their neck, spine, eyes, groin or even know if the person has a knife somewhere. all these are things taken into account by many traditional martial arts. the problem is they are there under a whole layer of cultural and political influence that may obscure it. not many people can get past it to the real thing. it takes an open mind and many years of experimentation and hard work. in modern society, the most common type of physical conflict is street fight, either with or without weapon, against opponents that are largely unarmored. these fights are rarely one-on-one but often one vs. many. this is why nowadays people prefer mixing different styles, so that they can deal with different situations. this explains why MMA, a mix of everything is commonly considered an iconic practical fighting technique. this is something that people need to understand. unfortunately, people are ignorant of martial arts history and the way they were used in combat. as a result, they end up completely taking it out of context. here's why: no proof of their effectiveness - People exaggerate by boasting of it's "battle proven methods." when you actually study history, there's no records of such. there's only legends and fables of martial arts working. to actually prove the effectiveness of martial arts, you need records of them consistently working. Improper usage - many people are misapplying martial arts. they are using martial arts for purposes other than what they were designed for. Martial arts were designed for various purposes such as ancient war, sport, espionage, assassinations, etc. they were later codified into forms and drills which were not used for fighting. it's more of a selection of techniques to choose from. Traditional martial arts are obsolete - tons of arts no longer have much use in the modern world. for example, Jujutsu was designed for taking out Samurai at close range with grappling and weapons. Submissions were to capture important figures alive. we no longer live in those times. it'd be a huge mistake to think you'll be able to defend yourself against a swinging attacker with Jujutsu. that's taking a martial art out of it's historical context. furthermore, we don't really know how certain arts were used in combat. it's one thing to practice forms but application is completely different. that's why people in HEMA for example study historical manuscripts to gain a better understanding of how they were applied in ancient times. if you have no historical basis for your art's application, it's essentially lost in time. for all those reasons and more, martial arts are no longer effective. yeah, you might find some good techniques but they do not fully represent the art as a whole. it doesn't take skill to knock someone out.
True. Most Kung Fu styles are about inner strength and spirituality. The only way to get Kung-Fu techniques to work efficiently is if you incorporate them into your own personal Jeet Kune Do or MMA.
The first fight used classic Wing Chun leg techniques on the ground; there are more and they are more effective than most realize. Loved seeing him hook the back of the neck as well using centerline to swing him around. Gloves are a huge disadvantage in Wing Chun. The boxer can hide behind them and WC users lose the back of the wrist and arm deflection necessary to bridge and control. No one wears gloves on the streets and boxing became less like the early bareknuckle days and more "rounded" in order to punch around the huge padding of gloves. Meanwhile, Wing Chun uses the hardened fist which can do a ton of damage and is muted by wearing gloves as well. The boxer's big gloves cover their centerline and is an advantage only to the "boxer"/MMA fighter. I hope a Wing Chun practitioner will go into the new bareknuckle fighting circuit. Then we'll finally see what it can be.
3:10 those are not annotations, but end screens. I'm not sure what's the easiest way to hide/remove them, but one thing that works in Chrome or similar browsers is to run this in the console: document.querySelectorAll(".ytp-ce-element").forEach(function(x){x.remove()}) And you can open the console with F12
I liked it that this Wing Chun guy actually did try to stay "Wing Chun" wherever possible, and didn't just start bar brawling like so many others have. This gave me the opportunity to really notice how bad Wing Chun is for always staying square-front-on. Watch any decent MMA fighter and they'll angle away after they've thrown a few punches, but Wing Chun guy is still right there in the pocket, ready to take the return punches right in the face LOL.
The Wing Chun vs Krav Maga fight reminds me of something my toddler said after grappling class the other day: “Daddy, why were you and your students rolling around and hugging instead of training?”
This video is a good test of the effectiveness of these martial arts without 'dirty' techniques being used (mainly eye, throat and groin attacks). In reality, the styles like Wing Chun can end the fight much more quickly by using just one lethal technique executed properly to one of these areas.
Interesting. I've seen some krav maga that is basically MMA + weapon disarms. This looks like the shitty version of krav, though. Even wing chun has "better" fundamentals on average, it seems. That's not saying much here, but hey... I just calls 'em as I sees 'em.
@Fight Commentary Breakdown...Nice vid !! Did you delete my commets and if so, was it due to being too lengthy ?? 2nd reply was for editing purposes...Thanks :):)
@@FightCommentary No, it was neutral comment, with no swearing or rudeness...Sometimes my lengthy comments don't stay on you tube, cuz I use to make very lengthy comments...It was a moderate length comment, so that is still probably the case...Thanks so much for your reply !! Peace :):)
I approved one that had a link. Was that yours? Links are also filtered because once i had a viewer who linked to a fighting site that had a stabbing. Got my video in trouble, so links aren’t automatically approved.
Typically in these types of videos there seems to be a very clear difference in strength and sparring experience between the two different martial artists (resulting in an obvious victory for the more strong and aggressive person)
That MMA fighter was terrible. Bad at changing levels, doesn't cut an angle at all. The only good piece of striking he did was finish a combo with a nice sneaky low kick.
Sparring Question: I'm not a fighter so I'm just a fan, soooo... How do you spare like that and not get mad when you get hit in the face? Is a professional/gentlemans/respect thing?
Its like arm wrestling. See whos stronger and if your arm gets sore, you knew what you were getting yourself into and you cant blame anyone but yourself. Its also friendly as well. No hard feelings when its done. You know that you might get injured so if you get mad it shows how little patience you have.
Practice. First time you spar, you're gunna be pissed, because you're probably sparring someone who's better than you. You'll try to kick their ass, and they'll school you, and you learn humility. After a while, getting hit in the face is no big deal, as far as emotions are concerned. Obviously, a good shot will still daze you, or hurt, depending on how you get hit, but it won't piss you off the same way. Now a days when i spar, I'll take a few shots to the face, and it's not a huge deal. We're not going 100%, so it doesn't hurt THAT bad. You just get used to it I guess... when you fight, you're gunna get hit at some point, even if you win, so it is what it is.
Something that annoys me is that 1:20-1:26 clearly shows many techniques for knocking out the MMA guy but NONE of these are allowed. Grappling and wrestling is protected by so many rules in the ring, it's insane. Edit - Basically all those strikes to the back of the head, even when he's taken down, he even shows that he can elbow the back of his opponent's head.
Haha its a hard road making TMA relevant man... I have done quite well in BJJ since these matches though... just getting back to WC now after several years off
Huge respect testing your stuff more TMA should do this it's the only way to improve, I remember the first time I was trapped in side control felt like a fish out of water.
I grew up during the 90's and Royce Gracie was the guy. He came in and showed how effective Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is 1 on 1. I think that a 195lb 6ft man handing all these big imposing guys their hats was great then seeing it evolve in to Anderson Silva and beyond has been great to see
Jisue Ortiz in the original video it's said that this is sparring. Well one guy is much more aggressive than the other. Who do you think that is? By the way, this isn't a display of how useful wing chun could be in a fight. Everyone could use the sensitivity training and defense it gives you. Fighters could learn better techniques for hand to hand with fencing. Wing chun has much to offer to any Mixed Martial Artist
Eye Am actually never mind because karate actually has a move or two that are actually pretty affective, can say the same for a martial art with no guard, stance, ground, an striking.
Was the Wing Chun guy a Wing Tsun guy? Looks a little like their style. They do some rudimentary ground fighting. Nothing like BJJ but more than nothing.
MMA is not anything in particular. "Mixed" is not a specific style it's just a melting pot. And yeah cross-training and learning what works when things are mixed is better than learning solo stuff but like MMA does not have any of its own techniques and any technique can be MMA if it can be made to work within the ruleset... so it's nonsense to say "mma just works better."
Then say kickboxing/muay thai just works better. Another common MMA combo is boxing and wrestling. Works pretty well. So do lots of other mixes but gotta be well rounded. Most stylists outside of MMA aren't well rounded enough, but, like, boxing + wrestling isn't the same as muay thai + jiu jitsu, yet they're both MMA and they're both effective
What a lot of people still don't get, is that Krav Maga doesn't have a distinct style. A good Krav Maga gym will essentially teach you MMA, embedded in "realistic" street fight scenarios (several opponents, weapons involved, etc). That's it. If you watch somebody who trained at a good Krav Maga gym do an MMA style exhibiton fight like here, you should expect him to use Muay Thai for kickboxing techniques, Judo and wrestling takedowns and BJJ on the ground. No secret there. KM is supposed to teach you what works and adapt it to a street fight context. And what works there is pretty much the standard MMA kit: Muay Thai, wrestling/judo, BJJ.
There are a few Wing Chun schools which teach their version of ground fighting. It's not about being the best on the ground, and Wing Chun gets slaughtered on the mat by BJJ and Wrestling, but you do get a bit of training on how to adapt your existing techniques to work off your back. It's certainly not 'traditional' Wing Chun in the strict sense, but it was taught at my school when I studied it back in the day. Coincidentally, when I made the shift to BJJ I also got told I had good instincts off my back, so this guy is probably in the same situation.
Re: the first fight - the Wing Chun guy appears to be using "groundproofing" tactics taught by Tim Cartmell, who developed a program for stand-up fighters who don't want to ground fight but want to know how to deal with being taken down. It's a great program. ua-cam.com/video/HqNTbySfSD0/v-deo.html Tim comes out of Kung-Fu San Soo, a bunch of internal Kung-Fu systems (including 形意拳，八卦掌，and 太極拳), and then took up BJJ upon returning to the States. He was a champion stand-up fighter in Taiwan and is a champion BJJ competitor in the West.
I woulda locked that twister up at the end, he didn’t have the ground knowledge to know he coulda transitioned very easily when he was on his back like literally take his right leg off krav Magas hip lock up krav magas left leg with it and it’s over.
I was in a tkd tournament several years back and the guy kept throwing a spinning back kick. To counter I kept throwing a round house which was catching his kick before he had a chance to finish it. He lost his balance each time. I got called for low kicks. which they weren't. They were just catching him on the underside of his kicking leg. Either way, it led to a penalty and a loss. I was pissed.
In my sifu's WC school back then, we'd spar all the time including takedowns, groundwork. It helped that a few guys also cross-trained or dabbled in MMA stuff, then it spread to the rest of us who aren't familiar with it. I'm glad I have that experience even though I can't say I'm any proficient in any way. I do know that if someone is determined to take you down, have the size+mass, and they know how to do it, then chances are 8 out of 10 times you will be taken down. So it's best to get any type of ground-fighting sparring experience.
I hear a lot of the Wing Chun groups in Australia are developing a basic ground defence these days due to the increase of awareness that fights can go to ground. So seeing a 'what I'll assume' is a contemary method of Wing Chun practitioner using some ground defense isn't that supprising to me.
Yeah man there are several WC and WT schools that have kind of developed a ground fighting strategy or at least some basic BJJ escapes. I think the next generation of masters will have a fully integrated BJJ and WC curriculum. At least thats what Im shooting for
I think you have a point that through the next generations will have to have a better developed curriculum to stay credible compared to reality based self defense systems and MMA.
I love how you can't complete a full sentence praising a Wing Chun guy without him getting taken down or eating a big right. "Okay, okay, great, our Wing Chun guy isn't shitting his.... he just shit his pants."
Wing Chun/jkd guys know a lot about body control- well if they are anything similar to what I was taught. It actually gives you some basic stuff with grappling. Not a genius but a lot of it is kinda like full body trapping.
Does anybody want to know how to escape from the full mount? Listen and learn, 1) bottom man get tight to your opponent and secure an overhook on one arm and an under hook on the other.2) high bridge and hard arch towards the overbhooked arm 3) if you first attempt doesn't work make sure to throw a hard elbow back up the pipe as you go back to your back.( if you don't dislodge the top man at first, you'll often knock him off balance falling forward and open for the elbow On your way back to you back.) 4)if you do not get separation the first try make sure to get back to you back and set up again.
It's always good to see TMA guys who are used to sparring and are quite capable fighters. TMA's biggest problem is alack of sparring, most of the techniques are fine it's just about how you train them.l
Not the version taught by William Cheung. I interviewed him and asked him why Wing Chun had no ground-fighting. His answer? "We don't need it. We have chain punching."
As i understand it, the Wing Chun guy is a practitioner of the Leung Ting style (spelt Wing Tsun). Wing Tsun includes groundfighting and something that they call "anti-grappling". I'm guessing that this is what the Wing Tsun guy was doing; eg, trying to avoid grappling by pushing the other guy away with his legs.
At least one sample of WC practicioner that did not lost the stance after going to the ground, I think he have trained for this, then we can actually study WC without blaming the fighter abandoning the technique or the style. I think he went back to the stand position quite well as showed in practical WC video. What he could improve to get to win is the brute strenght and the anti-grappling
Hey Jerry! Thanks a lot for the review and the advise as well! Since these matches I studied quite a bit of MMA, but mostly I really love BJJ. I got my purple belt in 10th Planet JJ last October. I will be releasing more of these sparring matches because I have loads of them and I just started doing Wing Chun again after about a 2 year break. Once I get my technique sharp I plan to make more sparring videos.
Quick question, what was that plugin type thing you had at 11:05? It looks really useful.
Thanks again man, love your videos! Keep 'em coming
Thanks for your comment, and I'm glad you're training at 10th Planet JJ. Keep us all posted on your progress! That plugin is called VidIQ.
wait that was you sparring in white shirt???
It was indeed Joe
;)
Thanks man, I will
Tyler Casselman so that guy in white shirt is a 10 planet bjj purple belt
Wing chun practitioners should constantly train against boxers. The wing chun will modify naturally and become more efficient
No, that will NEVER happen. A boxer is a master in hitting moving Targets. Poking your fucking eye, when you staying in a wing chun stance is easy as breaving.
So pleas fuck your Wing Chun relligion and safe your bull shit.@@asmdesign1956
@@asmdesign1956 Bas Rutten has a funny video talking about some traditional martial artists that showed up at his classes saying they can fight off a choke with eye pokes. Its not as easy as you think to poke an eye when grappling. He even said to them i am going to let you poke me in the eyes, just know that if you do i am going to snap your neck. Nobody took the chance needless to say. Bas rutten vs ninjas was the video
@Johnny Vincent No, a bad technique is a bad technique. The individual fighter can't take a technique that is inherently flawed and make it work.
There are numerous kung fu techniques that would be legal in a boxing match, but you would never see them used because they simply aren't effective.
As far as a kung fu guy beating a boxer, it can happen, if the boxer isn't that skilled or simply doesn't know how to defend a kick. Also, did the kung fu guy actually use kung fu? Or did he just use what amounts to kickboxing as happens in so many of those situations?
@Johnny Vincent That's not simple proof, those are just theoretical scenarios you invented in your head.
More concrete evidence is the fact that you don't see more kung fu specific techniques in high level competition, even when said techniques would be perfectly legal within the rules.
If it was about the practitioner and not the style, why would we even have mma or train in different styles? Couldn't you just stick to one style and become highly proficient? There would be no need to add anything to a style since the skill of the practitioner is the sole factor.
@Johnny Vincent I never said you didn't know anything or had no experience. Your resorting to personal attacks just shows you had no real rebuttle to my arguments.
Again, since you have such vast experiance. Answer my question, why is there even a need for mixing martial arts if the practitioner is the only factor that matters? What does a style gain from another style?
I was pleasantly surprised by the Wing Chin guy. I also like that he's willing to spar different styles.
This wing Chun guy is really good at defense tbh
Dudes tough - lots of heart (fighter’s). Fights using Wing Chun too. I would work on sprawl (Chuck Liddell style) if I was him. Keep fight on feet where he can bang with his WC.
Ahhhhhhh it in only info how we utilize it it up 2us
I'm liking this a lot. The Wing Chun guy seems decently conditioned and has good fight intelligence, and this is one of the rare times where things like the "bong sau" technique (0:04) is actually seen working to parry a punch.
Safe controlled sparring should be a mandatory part of all martial arts schools, especially the "traditional" ones; because it's tests like these that really bring out what works. I didn't have that at my WC school, and it was one of the reasons I never went back. Sparring on my own taught me much more after learning all the forms.
Well said :)
Probably best Wing Chun fighter I seen for awhile
DragonPlays That's sad then, the mma fighter was already tired an still one.
Jisue Ortiz Not really sad, there has been alot of fights where the Wing Chun fighter get destroyed but this Wing Chun fighter actually got some muscles on him and can take some hits to the face.
DragonPlays in the first second of the video, you can clearly see the mma guy in sweat an tired like state an the gloves he wore also take some energy( I've used them in sparring session) an yet you say the wc did well?. Like WTF is wrong with you, that's like having someone run a marathon 3/4 of it than having some ass pop out of nowhere an finished for the first runner an saying "well that took him a lot of work". I've worked out than do pad work an my punches aren't as strong as I would've just done my pad work first than work out( my friend told me).
DragonPlays also the guy had muscles? What I'm 20 an have bigger muscles than him but that doesn't mean I'm tough. I was a scrubby kid who got into more fights than I do now. Bodybuilders are better in their field of strength than the field of power.
LOL you taking things too seriously I never said that the MMA is bad or lost, MMA is better than Wing Chun full stop. my first comment is just giving a rare compliment to a WC that did well AGAINST a MMA fighter so yes that is fucking rare and I expected MMA guy to win easy with no effort but yes he looked tired fair point. He is the ONLY WC fighter that look in shape with some muscles - most are always skinny or fat and cant take a hit before they get floored.
Rather solid work on Wing Chun man's part. I'd love to see him try this again after 6 months of grappling training.
HsinHao Wang I think m the first guy applied sticky hands principle in the ground.
Thanks man. Ive done about 4 years of BJJ since then and I'm a 10th planet purple now. Ive won a few competitions here in asia. Thanks ;)
After 6 months grappling training, he'll be MMA man 🤣
The Krav guy was clearly at a disadvantage, because his opponent didn't pull a weapon!
😄
You cant use half of it in sports fighting unless they let eye gouges fish hooks groin strikes throat strikes and temple shots in the sport they might aswell bring back real gladiatorial combat if they did that guy also has done fuck all krav maga he just looks like a barfighter having a spat over a woman or spilled drink he has zero training and his aggression is non existent
@@weirdscience8341 Same for Wing Chun. A lot of Kung Fu moves aim to maim or kill. Not for sport.
@@weirdscience8341 Temple shots are absolutely allowed in most striking-based combat sports. Do you expect someone to magically avoid the spot while boxing someone else up?
@@weirdscience8341 Any time someone tries to pretend that the reason exactly zero pro-fighters use their favorite fighting style because "it's too deadly to use", you know they're full of shit. Krav Maga is 10% substance, 90% hype. And the reason nobody uses it instead of BBJ is because BBJ is superior in every measurable fashion.
Most of the techniques that Krav Maga fanboys claim disqualify it from being used in competition are, in fact, perfectly legal in competition.
@@sigerlion8608 Wing Chun is laughably ineffective, and incapable of killing anyone because it has no power. And because practitioners of it typically drill by fighting motionless training dummies or playing pattycake with each other in cooperative, rehearsed drills. Never against resisting opponents actually trying to injure them. Which is why Wing Chun has been used to win a fight exactly zero times.
It's very telling that the Wing Chun practitioner in this video, who does surprisingly well, isn't using Wing Chun for the overwhelming majority of the fight.
Krav Maga? The only martial arts experience this guy has is pickin up his lil sister from Taekwondo class....
I've taken krav maga for 6 years and you're so right xD
I did KRAV MAGA for 4 years and really loved it but its a "STARTER SYSTEM". Its like a mix of Karate and Boxing. ITs a starter system. From there I went on for 4 years of MT . Now I am doing no-gi BJJ and a little wrestling. KRAV MAGA is not based on timing and its gross motor skills while BJJ is like Calculus lol. MT just depends on your shin bones
I am having the hardest time in BJJ and Wrestling. I progressed very fast at KRAV and did ok in MT
@@quasar4601 If you want to learn how to properly defend yourself you need aikido
Toys_4_U! Toys4U! 😂😂😂 Aikido depends on acting skills and your opponents willingness to do what they are told during a fight. Unless you’re Luke Skywalker, invisible forces won’t do much in a real fight.
The Krav Maga guy needs to sue his instructor. He's just out there flailing.
popasmuerf This guy visits where I trained for two weeks every year. What do you think? Should I sue him? His name is Itay Gil. His career has seen him in places you and I would die. ua-cam.com/video/PbSxL3-S_1w/v-deo.html
My friend took Krav for 5 years. He became really good at kicking men and women in the balls. 😄
Hahahaha
It definitely works tho that belly aches a fucker after impacting the boys
How do you kick a woman in the balls?
Women?
@@seaweedseaside5905 LOL :):) Good one !!
This guy clearly had a horrible Krav Maga and Taekwondo teacher or he was a horrible student one
thank you! The form of his punches were beyond sloppy. Like I get it Krav Maga is a combative system and is designed to be effective, and brutal, not pretty. But this was just like a damn street fight on the KM guys end.
and wtf was up with his elbows that shit is supposed to tucked in not up in fucking chicken wings
did about 2-3 y of KM never have i been taught to keep my arms like that, also at least in my school they rly didn;t like flashy moves like the spin back kick. We learned a lot of control moves he could have used in grapling, did not look like he had any krav maga in him, mb he just went to a few classes or he is just bad.
@Michael Preston You don't know what you're talking about and obviously a Krav noob.
@@min009 probably b/c he was in a fight, dumbass.
Wing Chun isn't bad. It just needs to be practiced in a realistic setting and sparring with other martial arts. Need to get away from traditional thinking outside of getting basics down. Need to be more explosive with strikes. I know a lot of guys that prove what I'm saying
It also needs grappling.
varanid9 well so does boxing, Muay Thai, taekwondo, etc but that doesn't really matter in the regard of the kosher martial art being used against others in the context of ring sport or self defense
varanid9 the first Wing Chung guy applied Wing Chung principles in the ground; thecsecond one applied jiujitsu.
Paul Murrell I guess that but I wanted confirmation. I will check those faces again.
Paul Murrell what means a "dead giveaway". English is not my main language.
Whether his instinct or experience, one of the better wing chun fighters I've seen.
Fighting style is important in how efficient the technique is and how effective. Also in how easy it is learn, in a word, simplicity. Wing chun checks all the boxes. But style and technique cant make you a fighter. You can learn all the forms you want but if you don't have the instinct you're gonna get your ass kicked. Thia guy is talented AND well trained.
Any guy that turns his head away from punches, haven't spar for real before...
Unfortunately, it is a problem that a lot of wing chun schools have. I don't know why, but the "traditional" motions like tan and pak sao don't include head cover, which I believe was probably part of early Wing Chun when it was taught as self defense for women, if the mythos of Wing Chun is to be believed.
SwordTune early wing chun wasn't for women, is was created by a woman named wing chun or something close enough to where it got the name.
Rafael Roquemore
Oh wow we got a real braniac here. Repeating my words but slightly different, how quaint. Skillfully disregards my allusion to the mythos surrounding the history of Wing Chun, which has various versions, some of which claim it was designed for and taught to women. Boy, really got me there Poindexter.
antonio pabon I’m pretty sure boxers turn the head away All the time.
+Rickster Music
There's a difference between turning with the punch, and not maintaining cover.
That's not Krav Maga and if it is then some one owes that guy a refund
You're a dumbass who never trained Krav Maga or never made it past Level 1 with the other Noobs and women & weak men, that usually populates the Krav classes. Krav Maga starts looking exactly like MMA Lite, starting from Level 2 and above.
SandaBoxing english?
@@bryanfong1023 I'm not your ESOL teacher.
@@SandaBoxing you are definitely not an ESL teacher
Bryan Fong @sandaboxing is a piece of shit who doesn’t know what a real fight is. He just goes and plays with little pieces of shit and calls that fighting
I think the man studied Krav in a nursery, certainly not with an expert
🙄
@Johnny Vincent maybe I have a greater knowledge than you might think. Check out UA-cam, there are quite a few really accomplished Krav teachers.
Na ge studied spaz maga
@@michaeldeane9029 krav maga: Grab my wrist, no, my other wrist.
I've been white for most of my life, and I get mistaken for Jean Claude Van Damme constantly. Especially when I fight Bolo Yeung.
So, are you black now?
People say i look like the guy from odd thomas he played the russian guy in the new startrek film
he ran himself over and died a couple of years ago
I was white for a full semester in college weren’t really for me tbh
Nice! I like these non-trolling videos lol
Found this on his channel two days ago, nice comments
Cool!!
Thanks man, appreciate the support
Wing chun have a ground figthing but I heard some people tend to ignore it.
Blackpowderkun yes exactly counter ground fighting or antigrappling, just watch the footage from the Movie when Donnie Yen grapple Mike Tyson.. Seemed Tyson want to use illegal pugilism technique tackle continued into killer mounted punches but Donnie Yen counter it so the fighting just not more than 3 minutes in the ground... I have a friend who practise TMA said in real street fight do not do ground and pound more than 3 minutes because there are strong possibilities someone will sucker punch you from behind...
Blackpowderkun I found one guy on Instagram that shows the "Wing Chung groundfighting"... other ones addaot the principles to the ground
They actually have a lot of grappling defense built into the wooden dummy form. Not sure if all of it is effective though, but the footwork for some of the wooden dummy sets is specifically lower stances to help defend against grappling.
@@thesandmanquotes4756 old comment but I will chime in.
WC ground fighting is actually largely aimed at desperate measures to end it quickly. The grappling game is an acknowledged weakness. Elbows to the spine and head for example, are the taught escapes. Those elbows are actually about the only elbow strikes the system has, and are among the last to be taught.
The ground game seems to be expanding today though, I see more jiu jitsu form being practiced in my limited research.
WC does have specific methods taught for gap closing, because it is a close combat system(versus ranged systems like TKD) and this was problematic against takedown systems like bjj(it is surprisingly even against some Judo moves, as wing chun does well at upper body control-we see that a little in the video). That definitely stems from the wooden dummy training as mentioned here, and some exercises like chi sau.
I hope WC evolves more and we get to see more mainstream fighters in the future.
@@danielmiller2357 that’s interesting… my cifu is 3rd generation Duncan Leon WC. Ironically, it was specifically the wooden dummy forms where anti grappling was taught (they demonstrated it too via their senior students). Beyond the staff form, knife form… and three fighting forms, I have not known or heard of a wing Chun grappling technique (or other part of the WC system). When it comes to upper body and lower body, including ground fighting, I’d prefer southern praying mantis to WC by a huge long shot
I wonder what wing chun or kung fu would actually look like if people trained for sparring like they do with something like muay thai
It might look like........muay thai.
Sanda
Ever seen a Jeet Kune Do guy from an Inosanto school? They train in something of a Jeet Kune Do-based MMA. They combine Bruce Lee's Jun Fan(condensed Wing-Chun, Hung Gar, Boxing, fencing, Taekwondo) with Silat, Kali, Eskrima, Muay Thai, and BJJ.
Sounds like a lot of stuff. But they manage to condense it down into an "essentials only" system.
It is effective. At my wing chun class we sparred. And because i do other arts i got to test it. I could hold my own against competing boxers and karate guys. For some reason wing chun in particular just has so many crap teachers
Sparring is essential if you want to build actual fighting skills man... I hope at least... it will look like Wing Chun and not just boxing or thai boxing... ill get back to sparring in a few months and post some more videos then ;)
Problem with a lot of mma guys is that they don't seem to utilize the clinch when they can. There are many moments in the fight where the mma guy could have melted the wing chun guy with knees and punches (cuz I'm assuming elbows were banned for this fight) from the clinch or just frustrated him with the clinch that's also a viable tactic. Look how successful Anderson Silva was against rich franklin using the clinch. It's a very underrated (at least in mma) yet effective tactic that people just seem to ignore. A few years ago when I was just doing Muay Thai I could even outwork extremely talented and experienced wrestlers in the clinch. Maybe knees were illegal in this fight but still man the clinch is extremely effective and I think all mma guys should have it in their arsenals, I especially think so now after training and competing in mma. I don't know dawg maybe I'm biased but... clinching works. I'm not just saying this for this fighter but I mean in general. This dude obviously found success on the ground and was maybe too scared to engage in the clinch in case the wing chun guy was proficient in it.
SneezyAnus mma is such a broad term.. there are so many styles that can turn out different along with personal behaviors.. to much variety in mma you can't exactly pinpoint mma except the fact that they both know stand up and ground. To many combinations of different styles.
mma means they took 3 styles boxing/thai and bjj and mixed them, and they call it the abomination it is now. ''mma'' funny though most mma guys have shitty technique, rediculous low level reflexes etc. i laugh my ass while i train 3 different martial arts not ''mma'' like some fucking inbred watched some ufc and thinks the shit is mma. hahah and nowadays they call mma a martial art which is not.
SneezyAnus wing chung guy too so easy
The wing chun could do more, too..so what?
Jean-Claude Van Damme??? That is absolutely racist! Guy looks like Chris Evans! XD
Exactly, he looks like a less buff and worse at fighting Steve Rogers.
nah, looks like Tom Cruise fighting Tom Cruises evil twin.
🤣
You should tell your friend to not use such a deadly and powerful spinning backfist like the one at 5:14. Hes gonna end up killing someone.
Likely himself when he gets countered 😂
Nick Carroll He was prepared for the counter. Check at 5:16. Thats a powerful backfist counter to a counter.
He wasnt my friend at all... he basically came to Dojo storm us... showed up and tried to take peoples heads off.... I gave him a few and well... he didnt come back
Correct me if im wrong,
the guy who look like Chris Evans (with red socks) is the Krav Maga style right?
Yes
The best wing Chun fighter I have ever seen (on UA-cam) . No style is bad, if you learn with a practical approach. Doing moves in air only polish your demonstration skills but if you wanna make your move effective, you have to spar with your partner. MMA fighters spar a lot n get Confidence to fight an opponent. One more thing wing Chun fighhters must work on their grounds bcoz it's easy to take them down (we can see in this vdo)... This guy is applying his skills which is a nice thing 👏👏...
Yea, I think that is exaclt his secret, he is just practicing in the most realistic way he can. So, +1 to his determination.
Go search Josh Kaldani and be prepared to see a way better WC + BJJ fighter
As a capoeirista, that roll away by the wing chub guy was amazing. It's effortless to corkscrew your way up. You can tell he's done it a million times.
I like this channel, finally nice to see a wing chun guy do pretty good
Appreciate it man, Ill work to get better
The Wing Chun guy really held it down.Much respect!
What of the 2 Wing Chun guys?
THanks man, appreciate it
problem with all this groundfighting is when his friend runs up and starts kicking you in the head, which is why back in the days of swords and battlefields people were taught being on the ground is dangerous, it will get you killed
Thats why MMA BJJ is useless in streetfight vs 2 ppl. i'd stab dat mma bitch when he try to groundfight choke lock my friend
@@fapking4776 That's also why you should never fight when 2 people challenges you on the street.
So nice to see a wing chun fighter that doesn’t just collapse down into instinctual fighting as soon as the fight gets intense. Although, it’s worth pointing out, the only technique that approximated a KO was a jiujitsu technique
Thanks, appreciate it ;)
Tyler Casselman we appreciate you. It takes a lot of guts to go put it on the line on video, especially with so many recent high profile losses, but the information we see here helps us figure out what works and what doesn’t. It’s tremendously useful from a research perspective.
If i practice 2 martial arts does that count as mma🤔?
Sure!
Fight Commentary Breakdowns sweet😊
I practice three martial arts and then people talk shit about how "MMA" is better even though "mixed" means nothing in particular and what I do is definitely mixed martial arts
Diphyllum right on man
MMA is Mixed Martial Arts, so yes
Fist scrap was fantastic but the way he went into guard instantly tells me hes had a few bjj lessons he even went back into position on the mat when they reset it
I practice MMA and spent 6 years practising wing chun before. I have found it has its place in MMA but you cant use pure wing chun vs mma, you need muy thai, judo BJJ and grappling to be the total fighter
Seems about right to me man.... how many pure boxers or pure thai fighters do you see competing and doing well in MMA? Zero
exactly, it's the essence of JKD, just learning whatever you can to fight against any style. To be able to adapt and have the style of no style but taking what works and discarding the rest.
His shortcoming as a practitioner comes out early on. He goes in and crowds him, makes him drop his hands twice. But he doesn’t even try to capitalize on it. Instead of doing whatever he can to dominate, he just bounces back out. I think you mentioned the clinch. What good is hundreds of hours of chi sao if you’re not exploring clinches? He played the MMA guys game. But he did well, better than Most. I find wing chun works much better with extreme aggression. If you sit back and try to pop in, pop out, and Chase the hands, it’s not equipped for that in and out game. Incorporate clinching and elbows into your chi sao if you’re a wing chun guy. He does a little bit of clinching in the second match. That was good. He even got a little throw counter in.
Pretty spot on man, I wasnt confident enough in the close range... I was still afraid to get hit. You train WC as well?
The thing I find hilarious about WC watchers and bashers is that they think WC being used is not WC if it doesn't look like Chi Sau and wooden dummy techniques.
For a bad but viable example, Ip Man movie. How many times does Donnie Yen use supposed non-WC ideas. The answer is over 50%.
What you will notice, if you pay attention, is that many techniques used come from crane and snake forms. Wing Chun is tie together of them with the main tie being the counter balancing art that is used in the wooden dummy and the brick shithouse centerline stance concepts. Wing Chun is not about direct force, it's about angular attack while you are centered and your opponent is off centered.
50k3r2 agree
Those end-of-video annotations are horrible. I feel your pain. Thanks for posting this- the martial arts world needs more of these sessions.
Krav Maga guy is so off balance!!
If that is how they train for their "Deadly fights on the street", lets pray he never gets into a real one.
I’ve been training in Krav for 3 years now, that’s not how we train. Looks like he hasn’t had a lot of sparring time.
I think it was because he was windmilling like a lunatic.
It's not a Krav maga. This guy barely know the basic of self defense.
Which one is supposed to be the Krav Maga guy? If it's the second guy then he clearly took an online course.
There are lots of wing chun schools but in the early 00s the European wing tsun association made a ground fighting program called not "anti-grappling." Emin Boztepe and Keith Kernspech designed it. They both had past experience in greco-roman and turkish wrestling. The ground game the wing chun fighter is of the same philosophy. I don't know the fighter, what he trains, school, etc, so this is just a guess.
be it I they are not the only ones doing attempts to addapt Wing Chun tobthe ground. Even I found 1 Sifu that say Wing Chun included thise techniques originally... and ge show good skills.
there's a distinct lack of respect from people on both sides of the debate.
for MMA and Combat sports styles, they do not respect the evolution of different martial arts for different environments.
all they care about is the myth of the so called 'invincible' fighter who can handle all-comers, in or out of the ring. anything else is crap or bullshido.
ignoring the fact that even MMA professionals have been beaten up, gang banged in the street when they try to take that attitude to outside the ring, sometimes by thugs who have no martial arts training.
then they complain about being ambushed, ganged up, blindsided by cowards with weapons, who won't face them fair and square. in a place like the ring. ironically.
on the other side, we have traditionalists who live in the past glories of their great great great great grand teachers, ignoring the fact that each of these great founders had to face many challengers in their time while today they keep arguing about the value of peace and so on.
they put no value on sparring, when the ring proponents actually have a very good point.
sparring regularly is the only way that get you used to hitting and getting hit in a free form environment where the opponent is ready and prepared to go at you with full force.
that's why even amateurs in combat sports can sometimes surprise and overwhelm experienced traditional martial artists who don't train for this situation. it is a big blind spot.
they are right to criticise traditional martial artists who look down on this part of their training. it is results oriented, not based on theories or tradition.
the only problem is combat sports junkies go overboard exaggerating it's importance in the real world.
they say it's best for self defense, when they don't teach about conflict escalation, or the psychology of street violence, legal rights of self protection or situational awareness.
they say their techniques are the only realistic ones that work everywhere, ignoring the dangers of going to ground in environments with lots of sharp corners and obstacles.
or punching someone in the face without gloves.
or taking their time to do limb destruction and body blows when they don't know how long they got until the guy has a truckload of buddies come by.
or doing high risk roundhouse kicks where they can easily fall down with no referee nearby, and think it's OK cos they know ground defense until someone picks up a chair and smashes it on them.
or grappling someone when they don't have protection on their neck, spine, eyes, groin or even know if the person has a knife somewhere.
all these are things taken into account by many traditional martial arts. the problem is they are there under a whole layer of cultural and political influence that may obscure it.
not many people can get past it to the real thing. it takes an open mind and many years of experimentation and hard work.
in modern society, the most common type of physical conflict is street fight, either with or without weapon, against opponents that are largely unarmored. these fights are rarely one-on-one but often one vs. many. this is why nowadays people prefer mixing different styles, so that they can deal with different situations. this explains why MMA, a mix of everything is commonly considered an iconic practical fighting technique.
this is something that people need to understand. unfortunately, people are ignorant of martial arts history and the way they were used in combat. as a result, they end up completely taking it out of context. here's why:
no proof of their effectiveness - People exaggerate by boasting of it's "battle proven methods." when you actually study history, there's no records of such. there's only legends and fables of martial arts working. to actually prove the effectiveness of martial arts, you need records of them consistently working.
Improper usage - many people are misapplying martial arts. they are using martial arts for purposes other than what they were designed for. Martial arts were designed for various purposes such as ancient war, sport, espionage, assassinations, etc. they were later codified into forms and drills which were not used for fighting. it's more of a selection of techniques to choose from.
Traditional martial arts are obsolete - tons of arts no longer have much use in the modern world. for example, Jujutsu was designed for taking out Samurai at close range with grappling and weapons. Submissions were to capture important figures alive. we no longer live in those times. it'd be a huge mistake to think you'll be able to defend yourself against a swinging attacker with Jujutsu. that's taking a martial art out of it's historical context. furthermore, we don't really know how certain arts were used in combat. it's one thing to practice forms but application is completely different. that's why people in HEMA for example study historical manuscripts to gain a better understanding of how they were applied in ancient times. if you have no historical basis for your art's application, it's essentially lost in time.
for all those reasons and more, martial arts are no longer effective. yeah, you might find some good techniques but they do not fully represent the art as a whole. it doesn't take skill to knock someone out.
Seems like they also dont really like to read. No one come here to comment lol
Will you ever post clips of you rolling?
Yep. Once I get some mats.
Jerry Liu thats sounds good man can’t wait and another question how long have you been doing bjj?
Three months of committed training, so I'm still very new to BJJ ;) You?
Started training seriously start of this month actually 😂 I took a massive break because of gym fees and school work but I started in December
These newbies... I have 1 day of training 😎... you... newbies.
After 10-15 years of Wing Chun, master Kevin learned how to slap like a drag queen in a real fight.
1:54 wing chun guy was lucky opponent couldn't knock him out because he was wearing boxing gloves.
The problem with Kung fu styles is they take a very long time to master and use effectively. It may take half a lifetime to master a single style.
True. Most Kung Fu styles are about inner strength and spirituality. The only way to get Kung-Fu techniques to work efficiently is if you incorporate them into your own personal Jeet Kune Do or MMA.
Exactly! Most practitioners don't realize this very important fact, if at all, until they are well pass their relative prime.
Yeah, thats a real hard truth to face man. There must be a way to make it more efficient to learn
The first fight used classic Wing Chun leg techniques on the ground; there are more and they are more effective than most realize. Loved seeing him hook the back of the neck as well using centerline to swing him around. Gloves are a huge disadvantage in Wing Chun. The boxer can hide behind them and WC users lose the back of the wrist and arm deflection necessary to bridge and control. No one wears gloves on the streets and boxing became less like the early bareknuckle days and more "rounded" in order to punch around the huge padding of gloves. Meanwhile, Wing Chun uses the hardened fist which can do a ton of damage and is muted by wearing gloves as well. The boxer's big gloves cover their centerline and is an advantage only to the "boxer"/MMA fighter. I hope a Wing Chun practitioner will go into the new bareknuckle fighting circuit. Then we'll finally see what it can be.
Tbh the Wing Chun/MMA guy did fine, But its the Krav Maga guy that makes me cringe lol.
3:10 those are not annotations, but end screens. I'm not sure what's the easiest way to hide/remove them, but one thing that works in Chrome or similar browsers is to run this in the console:
document.querySelectorAll(".ytp-ce-element").forEach(function(x){x.remove()})
And you can open the console with F12
This Wing Chun guy should challenge Xu Xiao Dong, maybe he could restore some credit in Wing Chung LOL
Wing chun has credit, its the phoney masters that give it a bad name
Gene
I think u should know Xu wanna fight those fake martial artists, not tryna challenge traditional Kung fu. That's totally two different concepts.
LoL. Xu gonna smash him, he's a legitimate mid tier MMA pro. This guy at best an amateur
interestingly, wing Chun vs krav maga looks like toddlers fighting after watching a kung fu movie.
this video proves is it all depends on how good you are as an individual
Any martial arts is only as good as you are
I liked it that this Wing Chun guy actually did try to stay "Wing Chun" wherever possible, and didn't just start bar brawling like so many others have. This gave me the opportunity to really notice how bad Wing Chun is for always staying square-front-on. Watch any decent MMA fighter and they'll angle away after they've thrown a few punches, but Wing Chun guy is still right there in the pocket, ready to take the return punches right in the face LOL.
He cant shrimp but he can flounder
How could we send footage to you, sir? 🙏🙏🙏
The Wing Chun vs Krav Maga fight reminds me of something my toddler said after grappling class the other day:
“Daddy, why were you and your students rolling around and hugging instead of training?”
And why Wing Chungers are dancing insted of Training?
Wing Chun is crap, go and challange a legit MMA fighter and you know what I mean.
This video is a good test of the effectiveness of these martial arts without 'dirty' techniques being used (mainly eye, throat and groin attacks). In reality, the styles like Wing Chun can end the fight much more quickly by using just one lethal technique executed properly to one of these areas.
Interesting. I've seen some krav maga that is basically MMA + weapon disarms. This looks like the shitty version of krav, though. Even wing chun has "better" fundamentals on average, it seems. That's not saying much here, but hey... I just calls 'em as I sees 'em.
Chaos Omega As a Kravist myself, I feel embarrassed to look at his level. Wing Chun guy doing good here.
It's funny too because Krav is supposed to have a basis in boxing. I saw absolutely none of that in the krav student in this fight.
@Fight Commentary Breakdown...Nice vid !! Did you delete my commets and if so, was it due to being too lengthy ?? 2nd reply was for editing purposes...Thanks :):)
I’ll take a look. Did you swear in the comment? There are strict filters for swearing because youtube is not a fan of that.
@@FightCommentary No, it was neutral comment, with no swearing or rudeness...Sometimes my lengthy comments don't stay on you tube, cuz I use to make very lengthy comments...It was a moderate length comment, so that is still probably the case...Thanks so much for your reply !! Peace :):)
I approved one that had a link. Was that yours? Links are also filtered because once i had a viewer who linked to a fighting site that had a stabbing. Got my video in trouble, so links aren’t automatically approved.
@@FightCommentary No it wasn't mine...Sorry to here, some goof linked to a stabbing and got ya in hot water :(:( Thanks for checking though !!
i would like to see a shaolin monk fight an mma fighter
Typically in these types of videos there seems to be a very clear difference in strength and sparring experience between the two different martial artists (resulting in an obvious victory for the more strong and aggressive person)
That MMA fighter was terrible. Bad at changing levels, doesn't cut an angle at all. The only good piece of striking he did was finish a combo with a nice sneaky low kick.
MobiusCoin yep, everyone on the internet is the best fighter in the world.
Yeah was thinking the same but maybe he was afraid of striking with a dude who's whole game is striking. That or he's just a shitty striker haha
Exactly. This is what people on all those kung fu vs mma videos should be saying about the kung fu fighters
That's my point. He was terrible and yet he still beat the WC guy.
MobiusCoin I agree he was sloppy and overly aggressive.
Sparring Question: I'm not a fighter so I'm just a fan, soooo... How do you spare like that and not get mad when you get hit in the face? Is a professional/gentlemans/respect thing?
DJFRMTX that's a really good answer. Shows my ignorance because I didnt even think about losing it and getting hit more and probably harder.
Its like arm wrestling. See whos stronger and if your arm gets sore, you knew what you were getting yourself into and you cant blame anyone but yourself. Its also friendly as well. No hard feelings when its done. You know that you might get injured so if you get mad it shows how little patience you have.
DJFRMTX seconded
Practice. First time you spar, you're gunna be pissed, because you're probably sparring someone who's better than you. You'll try to kick their ass, and they'll school you, and you learn humility. After a while, getting hit in the face is no big deal, as far as emotions are concerned. Obviously, a good shot will still daze you, or hurt, depending on how you get hit, but it won't piss you off the same way. Now a days when i spar, I'll take a few shots to the face, and it's not a huge deal. We're not going 100%, so it doesn't hurt THAT bad. You just get used to it I guess... when you fight, you're gunna get hit at some point, even if you win, so it is what it is.
I’m just here to see Chunners getting worked up.
Hahahaha
There will be plenty of that, dont worry hahaha :D
This was very enjoyable to watch.
Do fight commentary on the Ninja that fought Dominic Cruz
Something that annoys me is that 1:20-1:26 clearly shows many techniques for knocking out the MMA guy but NONE of these are allowed.
Grappling and wrestling is protected by so many rules in the ring, it's insane.
Edit - Basically all those strikes to the back of the head, even when he's taken down, he even shows that he can elbow the back of his opponent's head.
The Wing Chun guy would've done well in any discipline, shame he chose Wing Chun/
Haha its a hard road making TMA relevant man... I have done quite well in BJJ since these matches though... just getting back to WC now after several years off
Keep up the good work, you're certainly putting more hours in than I have. I've just read your other comments, would love to see how you progress.
Huge respect testing your stuff more TMA should do this it's the only way to improve, I remember the first time I was trapped in side control felt like a fish out of water.
Very good video! I appreciated the insight.
Thanks! Watching this makes me want to train harder!
Just a slugfest. I didn't see any Wing Chun nor Kung Fu techniques.
I saw plenty of Wing Chun.
I grew up during the 90's and Royce Gracie was the guy. He came in and showed how effective Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is 1 on 1. I think that a 195lb 6ft man handing all these big imposing guys their hats was great then seeing it evolve in to Anderson Silva and beyond has been great to see
The fact the wing Chung guy lost to a mma fighter who was already in a tired state let's you know wing Chung is child's play.
You are an idiot.
MrParkerman6 "you are an idiot." Is that it just a hit an run. Wow aren't you a big boy.
Jisue Ortiz in the original video it's said that this is sparring. Well one guy is much more aggressive than the other. Who do you think that is? By the way, this isn't a display of how useful wing chun could be in a fight. Everyone could use the sensitivity training and defense it gives you. Fighters could learn better techniques for hand to hand with fencing. Wing chun has much to offer to any Mixed Martial Artist
Eye Am actually never mind because karate actually has a move or two that are actually pretty affective, can say the same for a martial art with no guard, stance, ground, an striking.
This dickhead talks shit then gets pissy when someone talks shit. Way to hypocrite douchebag.
Was the Wing Chun guy a Wing Tsun guy? Looks a little like their style. They do some rudimentary ground fighting. Nothing like BJJ but more than nothing.
Yeah, I was WT at this time. German style
@@TylerTheUke WT is the Leung Ting style in EU. It's pretty much bullshido and most WT schools suck a lot.
Anything works if you practice it enough... mma just works better
SneezyAnus MMA is good for beating people up. WT is good for selfdefence.
MMA is not anything in particular. "Mixed" is not a specific style it's just a melting pot. And yeah cross-training and learning what works when things are mixed is better than learning solo stuff but like MMA does not have any of its own techniques and any technique can be MMA if it can be made to work within the ruleset... so it's nonsense to say "mma just works better."
Diphyllum I was asuming the often used Kickboxing/Muay Thai BJJ combo.
Then say kickboxing/muay thai just works better. Another common MMA combo is boxing and wrestling. Works pretty well. So do lots of other mixes but gotta be well rounded. Most stylists outside of MMA aren't well rounded enough, but, like, boxing + wrestling isn't the same as muay thai + jiu jitsu, yet they're both MMA and they're both effective
Diphyllum I am just saying WT is better on the street and not deniing the effectivness of mma
The Wing Chun guy actually held his own.
What a lot of people still don't get, is that Krav Maga doesn't have a distinct style. A good Krav Maga gym will essentially teach you MMA, embedded in "realistic" street fight scenarios (several opponents, weapons involved, etc). That's it. If you watch somebody who trained at a good Krav Maga gym do an MMA style exhibiton fight like here, you should expect him to use Muay Thai for kickboxing techniques, Judo and wrestling takedowns and BJJ on the ground. No secret there. KM is supposed to teach you what works and adapt it to a street fight context. And what works there is pretty much the standard MMA kit: Muay Thai, wrestling/judo, BJJ.
I like this. It's high intensity _Sparring_ with almost no animosity.
Just a bunch of dudes practicing.
Not sure where you found that Krav Maga guy. Obviously went to his introductory class but dropped out after that.
that krav maga guy was throwing some wild punches. wonder how much time he has actually spent sparring
Well clearly he never had one krav maga lesson in his life.
There are a few Wing Chun schools which teach their version of ground fighting. It's not about being the best on the ground, and Wing Chun gets slaughtered on the mat by BJJ and Wrestling, but you do get a bit of training on how to adapt your existing techniques to work off your back.
It's certainly not 'traditional' Wing Chun in the strict sense, but it was taught at my school when I studied it back in the day. Coincidentally, when I made the shift to BJJ I also got told I had good instincts off my back, so this guy is probably in the same situation.
Are they're any "traditional" matial arts fighting styles that can hold up against mma?
Muay Thai?
Re: the first fight - the Wing Chun guy appears to be using "groundproofing" tactics taught by Tim Cartmell, who developed a program for stand-up fighters who don't want to ground fight but want to know how to deal with being taken down. It's a great program.
ua-cam.com/video/HqNTbySfSD0/v-deo.html
Tim comes out of Kung-Fu San Soo, a bunch of internal Kung-Fu systems (including 形意拳，八卦掌，and 太極拳), and then took up BJJ upon returning to the States. He was a champion stand-up fighter in Taiwan and is a champion BJJ competitor in the West.
I woulda locked that twister up at the end, he didn’t have the ground knowledge to know he coulda transitioned very easily when he was on his back like literally take his right leg off krav Magas hip lock up krav magas left leg with it and it’s over.
I was in a tkd tournament several years back and the guy kept throwing a spinning back kick. To counter I kept throwing a round house which was catching his kick before he had a chance to finish it. He lost his balance each time. I got called for low kicks. which they weren't. They were just catching him on the underside of his kicking leg. Either way, it led to a penalty and a loss. I was pissed.
In my sifu's WC school back then, we'd spar all the time including takedowns, groundwork. It helped that a few guys also cross-trained or dabbled in MMA stuff, then it spread to the rest of us who aren't familiar with it. I'm glad I have that experience even though I can't say I'm any proficient in any way. I do know that if someone is determined to take you down, have the size+mass, and they know how to do it, then chances are 8 out of 10 times you will be taken down. So it's best to get any type of ground-fighting sparring experience.
"Have you been kicked in the balls?"
Almost spat out my drink
Hahaha. Sounds like you have 😎
@@FightCommentary Too many times.
I hear a lot of the Wing Chun groups in Australia are developing a basic ground defence these days due to the increase of awareness that fights can go to ground. So seeing a 'what I'll assume' is a contemary method of Wing Chun practitioner using some ground defense isn't that supprising to me.
Yeah man there are several WC and WT schools that have kind of developed a ground fighting strategy or at least some basic BJJ escapes. I think the next generation of masters will have a fully integrated BJJ and WC curriculum. At least thats what Im shooting for
I think you have a point that through the next generations will have to have a better developed curriculum to stay credible compared to reality based self defense systems and MMA.
It does not even look like kung fu. It looks like mma. Good for him.
Wow, what a plot twist. The wing chun guy was actually good compared to his opponents!
I seek to find more 😂
Fight Commentary Breakdowns my footage isn’t as clear as this but you can see what you find on my channel.
Haha its true.. but lets keep working
I love how you can't complete a full sentence praising a Wing Chun guy without him getting taken down or eating a big right.
"Okay, okay, great, our Wing Chun guy isn't shitting his.... he just shit his pants."
Wing Chun/jkd guys know a lot about body control- well if they are anything similar to what I was taught. It actually gives you some basic stuff with grappling. Not a genius but a lot of it is kinda like full body trapping.
Does anybody want to know how to escape from the full mount? Listen and learn,
1) bottom man get tight to your opponent and secure an overhook on one arm and an under hook on the other.2) high bridge and hard arch towards the overbhooked arm
3) if you first attempt doesn't work make sure to throw a hard elbow back up the pipe as you go back to your back.( if you don't dislodge the top man at first, you'll often knock him off balance falling forward and open for the elbow
On your way back to you back.)
4)if you do not get separation the first try make sure to get back to you back and set up again.
It's always good to see TMA guys who are used to sparring and are quite capable fighters. TMA's biggest problem is alack of sparring, most of the techniques are fine it's just about how you train them.l
Agreed
The "krav maga" guy looks like he's drunk lmao
Bro, wing chun has ground fighting you just don't usually see people using it.
Not the version taught by William Cheung. I interviewed him and asked him why Wing Chun had no ground-fighting. His answer? "We don't need it. We have chain punching."
Commentator seems to know so much about fighting. I'd like to see him fight and apply all that "knowledge" he possesses
My favourite UA-cam channel 👍
As i understand it, the Wing Chun guy is a practitioner of the Leung Ting style (spelt Wing Tsun). Wing Tsun includes groundfighting and something that they call "anti-grappling". I'm guessing that this is what the Wing Tsun guy was doing; eg, trying to avoid grappling by pushing the other guy away with his legs.
At least one sample of WC practicioner that did not lost the stance after going to the ground, I think he have trained for this, then we can actually study WC without blaming the fighter abandoning the technique or the style. I think he went back to the stand position quite well as showed in practical WC video. What he could improve to get to win is the brute strenght and the anti-grappling
I think, I THINK if you do more footwoork in wing chun then it will kinda be affective
Yooo finally some proper wing chun!
Great bong sau with the right arm @ 0:04 wing chun dude.
I'm impressed by the wing chun guy props to you