Can You Really Get Used to Nitrogen Narcosis? Dive Deep with Veronika Sievers!
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- 🌊 Dive Deep into the Mysteries of Nitrogen Narcosis with Veronika Sievers! 🌊
Join us for an enlightening and thought-provoking interview with Veronika Sievers, a seasoned diving expert with over two decades of experience. In this exclusive discussion, we explore the fascinating and sometimes controversial topic of nitrogen narcosis in scuba diving. Can divers really get used to narcosis, or is it always a lurking danger beneath the waves?
Veronika Sievers Bio:
- Diving since 1998
- Owner of Punkfish Diving La Palma, Canary Islands
- SSI Instructor Trainer since 2017
- IANTD Instructor up to Technical Diver
- JJ CCR Hypoxic Diver
- Tech diving enthusiast and theory expert
- Author of an upcoming book on decompression theory
- Founder of Punkfish Academy, a resource for diving theory and narcosis experiences
Interview Highlights:
1. Causes of Narcosis: Understand the physiological mechanisms behind narcosis when diving at deep depths.
2. Adaptation Debate: Can divers acclimate to the effects of narcosis over time? We dive into the scientific evidence.
3. Oxygen's Role: Explore how the partial pressure of oxygen contributes to or mitigates narcosis.
4. Scientific Data: Discover what long-term studies say about repeated exposure to narcosis.
5. Molecular Science: Learn what happens at a neurological level when a diver gets narked.
6. Sensory Experience: Hear descriptions of the sensations and cognitive effects of narcosis.
7. Perception of Danger: Address the debate on whether the dangers of narcosis are exaggerated.
8. Bragging Rights: Discuss the risks of diving deep on regular air and the potential consequences.
9. Mitigation Strategies: Find out effective techniques to mitigate narcosis effects.
10. Individual Variability: Understand why some divers are more susceptible to narcosis than others.
11. Training and Awareness: Evaluate if current dive training programs adequately prepare divers for narcosis.
12. Breathing Gases: Compare how different gases like nitrox or trimix affect narcosis.
13. Long-Term Impacts: Learn about potential cumulative cognitive or neurological effects.
14. Psychological Factors: Examine the role of anxiety and panic predisposition in narcosis severity.
15. Real-Life Experiences: Hear real-life stories where narcosis played a critical role in diving incidents.
🔗 Visit Punkfish Academy: punkfish-academy.com (punkfish-acade...) for more diving theory resources and to participate in our narcosis experience project.
Don't miss this deep dive into the science and myths of nitrogen narcosis with one of the diving community's most knowledgeable experts, Veronika Sievers. Subscribe, like, and hit the bell icon to stay updated with our latest interviews and diving insights!
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Nitrogen Narcosis Project - If we want to know what nitrogen narcosis means, we have to do one thing above all: Listen to those who report on it. That’s exactly what we want to do here: We ask you to tell us about your rapture of the deep. As text, as sound, as video…. Let’s talk about nitrogen narcosis!
You want to tell something? Then get in touch with us!
Tell us how you fared and at what depths. With which gases. How you felt. What you thought of. What you know about what happened to you.
punkfish-acade...
Thank you for letting me talk 😊
I have never dived and likely never will, but I'm obsessed with your channel and the information. I can talk (very high level of course) about the different gas mixtures, when pure o2 becomes toxic at depth, running cave reels and jumps, etc. I have no use for this information in real life but just love it. Keep up the great work and the amazing guests!
I am a technical, CCR and cave diver and I don’t dive air almost at all. Definitely not deeper than 30m (100ft). I thought that I don’t know the feeling of narcosis because I just didn’t have it, until I learned it the bad way…
During my technical class the instructor let us (students) execute the dive and he was filming me at 50 meters (170ft) to prove me that even if I don’t feel it (because we were diving with trimix 18/45) it doesn’t mean that i am not narked. The video showcasing what I was doing literally shocked me. I was laughing, I was confused, I didn’t remember the dive plan nor direction, couldn’t make a decision… and I would argue until now that I didn’t feel the narcosis at all.
However, the day I first time felt narcosis , I will never forget. I was diving at Ginnie springs with Nitrox 32 and not only got narcosis, but also CO2 hit that strong, that I almost blacked out. (My chest was burning heavily, I felt dizzy, loosing focus and started having tunnel vision). I was terrified because I never felt either of those before…I thought I die there that day. However, since that day, and since I know the symptoms well, I am much more sensitive to any changes in my body, that sometimes I can notice mild narcosis even at 18 meters (60ft).
So I believe that if someone say that he/she is never narked - the person just doesn’t recognize the symptoms well according to me.
Great video. She’s fantastic
Agree
Woody I think what some ppl mean when they say they get used to it." Some not all" is not so much that it stops having an effect but more so I know what's coming. I know the effects can vary from dive to dive at the same depth based on a few factors but I know what's potentially coming and I'm not as afraid of it as I was when I first started diving at those depths. I know this is not a good practice and it's not OK to teach ppl but that's been my experience. At first I was scared crapless at getting narced now I still get narced silly sometimes I'm just not as afraid of it. I do still however respect it very much so
Amazing discussion!!!
That's an interesting talk, I didn't look at it from that perspective earlier.
Thanks Veronica for your insights Thanks Woody for bringing us this talk. I know I probably have been narced but I guess for me it manifests as general foggyness in the moment and I don't remember what I don't remember from the dive. I rarely dive deeper than about 70 ft on air. If I plan any deep diving (Havent been deeper than about 145 ft still staying in NDL) I'll just use nitrox. As far as reading the gauge goes I'd be one of those people who forget what the reading is. I look at the gauge then make an assessment of good or not good and forget what the input was that led to the decision.
Just like the symptoms of hypoxia, the symptoms of nitrogen narcosis are difficult for the individual experiencing it to recognise. You need to undergo objective tests and then afterwards see how you did. As Veronika says, what can happen with repetition is that responses to an increasing range of events become instinctive. But that does not mean you're acclimatised; you will likely just not know you are narked. By the way, when I was flying and might still have a hangover a period on 100% always made me feel better.
I love the "you just not know you are narked" - statement. Thats exactly what it is....
I always like it when people are as open as possible about how they perceive it when going deeper, and I like to observe while I have Trimix in my CCR. This is not exactly "objective testing", but it helps...
I did a 49 meter dive on air yesterday with 32 minutes of deco. Dive time 1:58. 2 tanks start 200/200 with end 70/70. Probably narced but didn't notice. Good info here. I don't get the macho thing. Just have a good time.
Once I had a funny discussion with someone that told that people that have a large alchoolic tolerance, can get used aswell to Nitrogen Narcosis, although, how it works on our brain is completely different.
There is something that might be worth a discussion: People who are used to alcohol, or who are used to other recreational drugs, are used to act more or less normal while they are in fact more or less seriously impaired. This might help to be able to handle the feeling, but not to make it any better...
And it could happen that someone who doesn't use anything tat alters his brain, never, experiences even a small narcotic effect as something scary, because for sure it feels a bit like a loss of control (which it actually is...)
So, I would say it would be a really interesting question to investigate, but more if people who use recreational drugs (including alcohol) feel more able to handle things under water even if they are narked.... To check if they in fact are more able might be out of any possible research...
The new vertical-in-horizontal-in-vertical video format is 2044 technology in 2024
The checking the gage at 30m and not remebering it 30s later does not indicate narcosis imo. I mean it for sure does not improve the situation but:
Did you ever need to catch the next train and you check your phone which platform it will depart from - you put your phone away the next second cant remember it? like 4 times in a row?
I know it is a common phenomena.. so yeah… it might also just be your brain fucking with you^^
You are right, this is one of the things that DO happen! But on land aswell, something is a it "off" if it happens... Now, if you are one of the people who have this often, it is no surprise under water and is not a sign for anything. But if it is not normal for you, it might be :-)
Why do they not call it nitrogen toxicity because that's basically what it is
Most just know it as nitrogen narcosis . So it is easier to stick with a phrase most are familiar with but Veronika certainly can add her view on verbiage use. But the theme of her interview is you can’t really function at the same level when you are narked even if you think you can.
I would say an intoxication is something where some substance provokes damage, and until the substance is cleared, you have the intoxication. The narcosis depends on the actual pressure, and if you ascend, the symptoms disappear completely...
(But well, with oxygen toxicity it is the same, and we still call it toxicity.)
Narcosis describes pretty wel the way it works: As the nitrogen impairs the flow of information between your synapses, it acts at the point where narcotic gases used in anesthesia act aswell. This is why narcosis is quite a good term for it.
But which other words do you know for it? In german, most of the time we call it "Tiefenrausch", which is like "drunk from depth", in english I know "rapture of the depth", while nitrogen narcosis is the more neutral, scientific term.
Because it's not toxic, but intoxication might be a better word though.
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As far as I recall from Pr Simon Mitchell and Dr David Roulette, we don't get used to nitrogen narcosis. Results from divers' statements are not reliable, too many variables such as sleep, descent speed, water temperature, light, ... Any comparison with alcohol doesn't make sense since alcohol is metabolized whereas nitrogen isn't. Any medical professional knows alcohol induces its own metabolism...again, nitrogen isn't metabolized. Dr F.D.
You are absolutely right, the mechanism of alcohol is completely different. But a lot of people know how alcohol feels like, and can compare the feeling with what they feel when they get narked. This does help to understand, it is not meant to say it was the same.
HEY Woody Good Morning