"people just ate frigid and got their res back!" tell us all what happened when they nerfed that please tell every single one of us what happened to mages when that was removed. (no attunement meta instantly took root)
@@DanVR1 Even if eating ingredients still gave u sh tons of ether at least it requires the mage more effort than W + ardour scream + 123456789, ngl I don't get the point ppl make with tempo 😭
tbh agas suggestion is real, maybe slightly change it like some mantras dont get affected and maybe make the dmg reduction less, but yeah there must be a dmg reduction for giant ass mantras...
@@zetthefirst Modifying mantras is one of the most interesting aspects of mantras, innately nerfing modifying them was NOT the play, there were other alleys they could've done. Aga's in the right that massive mantras needed a nerf, but in the wrong on how he/the devs went about it.
As someone who has played deepwoken since its early release I can confidently say albeit verse 1 being WAY more unbalanced in terms of mantras and abilities themselves the core mechanics were much more stable (outside of luck) while it was less encouraging to make unique builds it was always rewarding whereas if you attempt the same thing now you get your ankles spun like a bottle cap and essentially instakilled by some gale wraithclaw metamancer that has 80 mantra pen and deals nearly a fourth of your health in a second. The pvp meta is just.. so god awful you will only find the same repeated builds everywhere because nobody wants to try to play the game as intended, they prefer to rely on a (BEST GODSEEKER GANK BUILD!) and then play the game with as minimal as their skill can get as their build essentially drags them by their feet making the pvp incredibly disencouraging as you get punished for trying to experiment and rewarded for just ctrl + v'ing your build Regardless the game has accumulated many issues over the time and the developers are turning a blind eye to them, A great example are bugs. Visionshaper has been able to void people if they copied rising shadow for ages now and whoever you intended to hit with it essentially dies immidiatly or how kamui can kill you if you accidentally slip in between a gap in a suffocation zone or how bosses like maestro have completely messed up animations whereas his masters flourish hits very shortly before the animation plays making it incredibly hard to parry The game wont last at its current state, definitely not with how incompetent the developers appear to be.
As I have said 1000 times, the balance issues from verse 1 were because the game was brand new we the people were pretty much doing open testing no one knew these interactions exists. In verse 2 the balance issues are from sheer incompetence and run away power creep.
Higher mods = longer cool down Without Neuroplacity Scaling starts at 6 mods : 5% longer Up to like 12 mods : 25% longer cooldown With Neuroplacity 6 : 4% 8 : 6% 10 : 10% 12 : 15% Makes neuro more valuable If u want, add a 60 int tallent Mantra unweaver when mix : mantra cooldown are 5% faster (need Neuroplacity) Nerfs mage builds but doesn't affect everyone Edit 1 all subjected to change Nerf mage higher mods = longer flat cooldown Without Neuroplacity If the base cooldown is 10 seconds 6/7 : + 10 seconds (20 second base) 8 : + 2 second ( 22- second ) 9 : + 2 second (24 second) Etc With neuro 6/7 : + 5 seconds (15 base ) 8 : +1 seconds (16 base) Etc Bless could be reworked
There is only 1 small problem. I have literally never seen a build whether it be attunementless or with a attubement without neuroplacity (stfu silenthearts)
Dont get me wrong all the problems aga wants to fix are very realistic problems with the game....MY PROBLEM IS WHY IS HE JUST NOW SAYINGS SOMETHING BC HE LOST TO IT!!?!?!?
@@AsuraOoalgown thats only if you make it to 16 modifiers? my guy if a mantra did 10 damage, 3 modifiers would be 7.5 dmg and 50% would be 5 damage 💀 it aint that bad
The only mage build that I have an issue with is shadowcast, permafrodt prison, and flamecharm gale's hybrid path, shadowcast does too much damage and takes too much ether for barely any drawback, while permafrost prison covers your entire screen and is annoying as hell. Fan the flames is literally the best hybrid path since you can make the largest goddamn explosions over and over.
And those builds absolutely need this nerf, but it does not solve the root of the problem nor will it affect in any way attunements like thunder ironsing and gale who dont NEED modifiers.
@@DanVR1 yeah, like gale has what, TWO WHOLE MANTRAS that take advantage of it? I think what they could do is force those builds to actually M1 to get tempo and ether back instead of being able to just spam mantras over, and over, and over. An example I have is this fan the flames build that never M1's me once, but also never ran out of ether because they just kept getting it back from their own mantras, which I find to be stupid
@@DanVR1 bro the only problem with mage builds is the big ass mantras cause they are so big and have so much range its much harder to fight them, now that there range isnt gigantic the problem has been solved i have never seen a gale mage build better then a gale weapon build ong you bugging.Cope
Reservoir literally was the cornerstone at limiting big ass mantras or mages from running rampant. But now tempo is so fucking liberating on ether regen.
Add reservoir back. And make tempo for only vent it wont give ether. eurodition only increase reservoir or ether and tempo gain. and the int/cha will only increase ether There is talent anyway when m1 parry gain reservoir and ether
i wish tempo drained much faster and you got more much faster per m1 landed, and including if it gets parried. Fights end up being you have infinite ether and tempo the whole fight, or both players are parrying well and literally have zero tempo the whole fight.
Throwback to how one of the main talking points about what was going to make Deepwoken better than rogue according to the devs was that it would be super easy to balance
Counterpoint to the tempo point: Reservoir was not fun in the slightest for anyone. Back then the mages would just eat umbral regardless to regain that reservoir too.
@DanVR1 no, i simply pointed out a second flaw Reservoir was still an awful system Ganks and PvE especially suffered from this, seeing as how after your first combat tag, you would be unable to get any reservoir back for the remainder of the gank. If you wanted to use any mantras after a single fight mid gank (even if you won), you would still be forced to sit at a campfire doing nothing. That wasn't fun.
@Bloomyp id rather have to m1 trade with people in ganks than get blown up by a million mantras your point sucks PVE in this game is already to easy and if people need ether for diluvian that bad they can just make it so you get a resivior pack from killing mobs and the same thing with people if ganks become to stale from parry trading
tempo and reservoir at the same time is kind of a lot, why not just make it so mantras don't refill tempo so it operates similar to how reservoir used to? the damage of mantras was never the problem it was always how easy it was to spam mantras, so the best way to stop mantra looping would of course be stopping mantras from granting ether
I think the existence of hero blades without any other requirements besides their attunement is fundamentally flawed, it encourages to play around your mantras and avoiding m1s at all costs, while still benefiting good damage and a good crit.
"The way that you remove metas, is that you take the stuff thats falling behind and not in meta and you buff it. You dont take the things that are working and nerf the shi out of them, doesnt work that way. The moment you do that you've created a worse, you've created a toxic meta cause people are upset and now they have to look for something that actually works. Its a bad direction in terms of development." -Piratesoftware Thor
when reservoir was in the game as a mage when you ran out you just ate mantra stones (umbral, gale stones, etc) and youd be back up to 75% reservoir so idk
The changes suggested by agamatsu are not a gut, you are overreacting. Do the math yourself instead of blindly believing other youtubers that crutch on mage builds.
Tbh i think it would be better to give it a threshold. After 4 mods you start losing damage by small amounts (the damage would scale down faster on cloud stones stratus stones ect.) i feel like that would help more
Deepwoken after never listening to their community then deciding to listen to the worst suggestion in deep history like I swear if this actually becomes a thing I'm going to crash out
I been talking about this tempo stuff since verse two dropped, I been running mage builds since game dropped and I have never actually had ether issues post verse two
havent played much deepwoken pvp/pve after verse 1 because of the tempo system, its cool and all but like it serves as a bandage over a wound (also sometimes you can vent and it would just not push them away)
also idk why they removed reservoir to begin with and shrines are stolen ideas from ror2 which only worked because the game was an actual roguelike, they gotta make it more downside to use them
@@pegasusrr3156 there should be an indication for what happened then, it looks like a bug when they are in range of the vent but do not get pushed back, it also still gives you the endlag.
never gonna happen, and it shouldnt happen. shrine of order is just build making culture at this point another nerf will just make 90% of the current builds overpowered and with how popular deepwoken is right now itll take years to get balanced out. much longer than it took for pre-nerf shrine builds to be phased out
and before anyone says it didnt work like that literally on my channel "the best players i've ever fought are bad" literally shows that WITH my mage build, the longer we fought the less ether/res I had so I had to get up close and focus on m1 and parry trading.
@@DanVR1 I've been yapping about tempo being bad for the game to my homies for ages, the issue being brought to the spotlight is like a dream come true thank you Daniel Virtual Reality Number One
we can have both I hate how conversations about deepwoken balancing are always in terms of extremes. Take the best parts of both verses and bring them together.
Happy PVP mage build gettin these treat meant but for me honestly at 16 mods your damage reduction should be 65% instead of 80. So that you will now have to press 6/10 keys on your keyboard and if you miss 6/10 you do less damage Now completing 10/10 you have that nothing happened to it but this only only apply to PVP cheese mantra: Shadow gun(blast) Flame eruption Shadow prison frost Ect And they don’t touch the PVE mantras
If they do implement the damage reductions based off modification I could see it working... Slightly, only if they rework a lot of mantra sizes and such like what they did to fire blade a while ago cause if this is implemented raw mantras like Air Force, ice beam both servants wardens blades hell masters flourish all obsolete
I don't think we need reservoir back we just need to have elemental rebound or whatever it's called (passive which grants tempo on mantra hit) removed and shadow should steal significantly less ether/tempo than it currently does
Remember how you got tempo only after m1s to prevent magey playstyle, and then they made mantras give tempo, completely butchering the whole point of the system
heres the problem in depth with your argument lets say we completely remove tempo, the game already has a lot of bullshit combos and moves that can get you into the enemy's face. you got nothing you can do against that and every move is punished with 10 fold of what it is rn. mages would LITERALLY thrive because now there would be reservoir and they can cast WAY more mantras then prechange where everyone kinda had equal grounds against one another. the mere fact that kyrscleave silentheart that has slapped a fucking nemesis on the funny bone sword can climb chime and be like 1700 elo REALLY easly and quickly is a proof that if you get a good concept, hone it down until you are both skilled enough with it and can actually put in the damage numbers; you can get that shit to work. and most importantly this is a very good and solid proof that even tho some builds do extremely high damage have stun capabilities or are just generally spammy, it all comes down to skill. you can shutdown a mage build same way you would with an attunementless just by parrying all of their attacks and going into defense. not to forget before the whole mage bullshit started attunementless was INSUFFERABLE to fight against. i literally argued multiple times that frostdraw was a good attunement just for it to be fallen into deaf ears and here we are with one of the most prefered pvp attunements being frostdraw. i feel like core mechanics of the game are just fine. if they did any slight adjustment infact it would create a domino effect that would make certain builds too annoying or too powerful to be able to do against something with. we should tackle the very attunements, their mantras and the costs of usage of those mantras. if mantras costed a little more to use, if they had more downsides other than damage or lack of stun time. rhis actually reminds me of an argument i once had with someone where i had argued that inhale was a borderline broken talent, and they brushed it off saying ''oh you would have to rework the whole system to fix this one particular talentcard'' when you dont really have to?? just attach a downside such as the mantra that was used in inhale costing 50% of its original value and the mantra that got the buff from inhale becoming 150% of its original cost and having its gem effects lowered by 25%. i feel like were just jumping on the gun on the balance changes of deepwoken nowadays and it feels very rough seeing something that could genuinely be so good be ruined because everyone has a conflicting opinion and we arent even letting the balance.. balance itself
Personally I would increase the CDs so they can’t just spam 1234 they need to space mantras and leave openings so for every modifier + 5% for the first 3 modifiers and then +10% for every one past 3 also remove tempo re add reservoir but talents like engage give reservoir now instead of
Honestly, I like your idea. Reducing the damage depending on how many people are hit by that mantra. Not to mention the the new changes will heavily gutt PVE, especially Frostdraw PVE builds since mantras like warden blades needs so much cloud/stratus stone to properly crowd control.
@@CattosForLife I once progged a gale and frost diluvian build. Before I wiped to lag, I realized the fact that tornado is still strong without modifiers, it's just that it's life span is quite short
Flaming rebound was strong and allowed flamecharm to spam mantras forever You know what the devs did?they gave elemental rebound to everyone,for free instead of removing
i had one idea after a full second has elapsed from being hit by an attack (req 1 to be a mantra involved else), the second after (last chance for there to be a mantra involved) if you are hit within that window it has 20% (10-15%?) less damage, and so on before capping at like 3 procs of this makes things like ice smash with guardbreak into near guaranteed followup, jet kick in the middle of m1 cycle, gb after 2 m1s landed, heavy m1 exhaustion strike heavy m1 and other stuff which shouldnt be in the game what do you think?
I Would say this mages are a problem, but if you make it so modifiers reduce damage "mages" would go to elemental paths for their damage, and still get it. If they want to truly rework the game and fix mages, make it so that each time a mantra hits the next ones after deal reduced dmg to players, and the only way to remove that dmg reduction is to land light attacks on a player = to the number of mantras you hit them with.
Im not sure why u randomly started throwing shade at shrine of order. The shrine just makes the game better and adds 10x more build variability. Yes, alot of people have copy and paste builds right now, but this would be 100x more prevalent without shrine of order.
honestly bruh only mantras I modify are the rising ones everything else just put a gem n ur chilling. honorable mention flame eruption which being fat is lowk insane in ganks
Daniel. If they removed damage and multipliers or removed the stacking of such, players would become forced to be more creative with their points instead of the usual suspects, heck just raise the requirements for "lose your mind" and it would cook half the builds, WE NEED A BUILD CLEANSING. Then comes removing chime or ELO and replacing it with over-world rankings. Whatever it is, i hope their team finds it w/ conquest. Overall, rework build crafting. Remove shrine of order/rework it. If you have alot of hp, you should have little damage; a lot of damage, little hp. attumentless meta is dogshit and should be removed from the game aswell.
Deepwoken is a lost cause, devs don't care, testers aren't listened to (yes that's real), balances suck, bloodrend meta. Just quit while you can man, deep died a long time ago. Its just delayed, no amount of deep glaze will save this rotting game. Rest well deep, we all miss you.
The semblance of balance this game had has fallen so far. I wish devs would stop adding a new legendary every week and focus on trying to fix this game's many, many problems.
DanVR im ngl to u flamecharm is NOT carried by modifiers at ALL its just nutty lol, ive got 3 flamecharm builds that just give u free elo if u use ur brain slightly that all have damn near 0 mods
@@DanVR1 highly disagree. yes it has really strong cheese but if it were to get removed 2 of my builds would still be insane. and most the cheese other than the comically large stuff doesnt require mods
Alot of the balance issues with verse 1 were because the game was new people didnt know the interactions even existed. Alot of the balancing issues in verse 2 are from sheer incompetence and I will not let anyone conflate those two.
no. mage builds need to be gutted in overworld a 10% damage nerf for each extra person hit aint doing shit besides helping flooders they alr do a solid 50% or so less dmg to allies with canor + give & take so they can freely cast island-sized mantras and not care ab team dmg the size cap on both flame & shadow mantras needs to be reduced, for example shadow gun should not be able to be the size of an entire house i still think this games overworld pvp is horrible due to there being no rage/revenge mechanic when fighting 40 different people solo, i genuinely just do not understand why they dont add one you quite literally just lose if theres 3 or more ppl vs you solo since they can just swap out freely and even worse with mage builds youre being hit from who knows where while taking 2x more damage than the other person is due to the aforementioned canor + give & take
if there is no nerf to silentheart imperial edge im quitting this game bro. no way they nerf big mantras but a weapon that is 3x better than any other weapon is ok
Mage builds? Assassinations is the problem, I sure love getting 50% of my HP gone in 2 seconds. But as for Mage builds: Flame is always broken and never gets fixed. You know what I wish for, something that a lot of games do. Another gamemode a bit like it's going to be for Conquest. Deepwoken (Main Game) Conquest (Game Event) Battle Royale (Game Event) What I hope for is: First Released Deepwoken (Side Game) just so we can experience how the game was back when it first came out. Being Deepwoken itself, before it turned into this absolute mess of a game. Another "anime" game for a better word. I reckon original players would come back for that and others who want to experience the games first release than as it is now.
i ma be real with you here , verse 1 was not that balanced , i still remember shadow meteor doing 1 bar per meteor , shadow and frostdraw being busted , huge aoe attacks (yes there was some huge mantras like shadow gun and ice eruption) , frostdraw iceberg used to heal like alot
@@nacun4740 people always seem to forget ice eruptions being the size of navae camp or shadow gun being ACTUAL cero metralleta like verse one was FAR from balanced bruh
ok mage are extremly good in gank but bro that the point we have to made build for different thing that literally the point of deepwoken bro mage build in chime are ok tier but see how chime 1400elo and above is attunmentless only. they just gonna gut some attunment and made the game even more clonesimulator fr who care of actualy balancing gank when the most unfair mechanics in gank is actualy not comming from the game. some mantra are obviously unplayable without modifier. that clearly not nerf mage build that just nerf some attunment gale is alr one of the most solide attunment same for thunder and they want to gut flamecharm ?
"people just ate frigid and got their res back!" tell us all what happened when they nerfed that please tell every single one of us what happened to mages when that was removed. (no attunement meta instantly took root)
@@DanVR1 Even if eating ingredients still gave u sh tons of ether at least it requires the mage more effort than W + ardour scream + 123456789, ngl I don't get the point ppl make with tempo 😭
Agamatsu after losing once:
it was broken doe
tbh agas suggestion is real, maybe slightly change it like some mantras dont get affected and maybe make the dmg reduction less, but yeah there must be a dmg reduction for giant ass mantras...
@@DanVR1 The 3 nemekians are proof lol
it doesn't help that mages create about 9 and a half billion particle effects so you cant even see anything
@@zetthefirst Modifying mantras is one of the most interesting aspects of mantras, innately nerfing modifying them was NOT the play, there were other alleys they could've done.
Aga's in the right that massive mantras needed a nerf, but in the wrong on how he/the devs went about it.
As someone who has played deepwoken since its early release I can confidently say albeit verse 1 being WAY more unbalanced in terms of mantras and abilities themselves the core mechanics were much more stable (outside of luck) while it was less encouraging to make unique builds it was always rewarding whereas if you attempt the same thing now you get your ankles spun like a bottle cap and essentially instakilled by some gale wraithclaw metamancer that has 80 mantra pen and deals nearly a fourth of your health in a second.
The pvp meta is just.. so god awful you will only find the same repeated builds everywhere because nobody wants to try to play the game as intended, they prefer to rely on a (BEST GODSEEKER GANK BUILD!) and then play the game with as minimal as their skill can get as their build essentially drags them by their feet making the pvp incredibly disencouraging as you get punished for trying to experiment and rewarded for just ctrl + v'ing your build
Regardless the game has accumulated many issues over the time and the developers are turning a blind eye to them, A great example are bugs. Visionshaper has been able to void people if they copied rising shadow for ages now and whoever you intended to hit with it essentially dies immidiatly or how kamui can kill you if you accidentally slip in between a gap in a suffocation zone or how bosses like maestro have completely messed up animations whereas his masters flourish hits very shortly before the animation plays making it incredibly hard to parry
The game wont last at its current state, definitely not with how incompetent the developers appear to be.
As I have said 1000 times, the balance issues from verse 1 were because the game was brand new we the people were pretty much doing open testing no one knew these interactions exists. In verse 2 the balance issues are from sheer incompetence and run away power creep.
@@DanVR1 realest explanation ive seen yet
talking about messed up animations and not mentioning hive/rogue mechs is tough work
Higher mods = longer cool down
Without Neuroplacity
Scaling starts at 6 mods : 5% longer
Up to like 12 mods : 25% longer cooldown
With Neuroplacity
6 : 4%
8 : 6%
10 : 10%
12 : 15%
Makes neuro more valuable
If u want, add a 60 int tallent
Mantra unweaver when mix : mantra cooldown are 5% faster (need Neuroplacity)
Nerfs mage builds but doesn't affect everyone
Edit 1 all subjected to change
Nerf mage higher mods = longer flat cooldown
Without Neuroplacity
If the base cooldown is 10 seconds
6/7 : + 10 seconds (20 second base)
8 : + 2 second ( 22- second )
9 : + 2 second (24 second)
Etc
With neuro
6/7 : + 5 seconds (15 base )
8 : +1 seconds (16 base)
Etc
Bless could be reworked
There is only 1 small problem. I have literally never seen a build whether it be attunementless or with a attubement without neuroplacity (stfu silenthearts)
25 % is still so little, just put a blessed on it or something and its gone. Plus like you can still just rotate between moves
@Aodh_Exa_Lasair here the thing (change it, if 25% is to low make it 75% or 200%)
great idea. not sure abt the % itself but def better then dmg (also better to start at 6 since some mantras need 4+ mods to be viable)
@why4474 thanks shrine of order. Its incredible how many problems with this game is tied to this one thing.
Maybe adding the chef oath could balance deepwoken
please stop
It would in my heart
it would be a chef's kiss Mwah
If even devs cant cook their game then smffbsjsnebkwnw sorry lobotomy session waiting for me goodbye😅
You already know that once they add it in, no one is going to use it after a week
Dont get me wrong all the problems aga wants to fix are very realistic problems with the game....MY PROBLEM IS WHY IS HE JUST NOW SAYINGS SOMETHING BC HE LOST TO IT!!?!?!?
Gotta get that bag, I guess.
Game design isn't that difficult yet they fumble so many times.
@@vivelespatat2670 ur joking right?
When u get your ass beat by it, it opens your eyes fr
@@GhostbladeX101 na
NOOOOOO MY CHEESE BUILD WILL DO 7% INSTEAD OF 10% NOW!!!!
More like 2%
@@AsuraOoalgown thats only if you make it to 16 modifiers? my guy if a mantra did 10 damage, 3 modifiers would be 7.5 dmg and 50% would be 5 damage 💀 it aint that bad
The only mage build that I have an issue with is shadowcast, permafrodt prison, and flamecharm gale's hybrid path, shadowcast does too much damage and takes too much ether for barely any drawback, while permafrost prison covers your entire screen and is annoying as hell. Fan the flames is literally the best hybrid path since you can make the largest goddamn explosions over and over.
And those builds absolutely need this nerf, but it does not solve the root of the problem nor will it affect in any way attunements like thunder ironsing and gale who dont NEED modifiers.
@@DanVR1 yeah, like gale has what, TWO WHOLE MANTRAS that take advantage of it? I think what they could do is force those builds to actually M1 to get tempo and ether back instead of being able to just spam mantras over, and over, and over. An example I have is this fan the flames build that never M1's me once, but also never ran out of ether because they just kept getting it back from their own mantras, which I find to be stupid
@@DanVR1 bro the only problem with mage builds is the big ass mantras cause they are so big and have so much range its much harder to fight them, now that there range isnt gigantic the problem has been solved i have never seen a gale mage build better then a gale weapon build ong you bugging.Cope
@@DanVR1no more ice pve
ye but shadow is also one of the slowest
I tried suggesting reservoir back and all the chime bots barked at me with strawman arguments 💔
Reservoir literally was the cornerstone at limiting big ass mantras or mages from running rampant. But now tempo is so fucking liberating on ether regen.
Add reservoir back. And make tempo for only vent it wont give ether.
eurodition only increase reservoir or ether and tempo gain. and the int/cha will only increase ether
There is talent anyway when m1 parry gain reservoir and ether
ether*
i wish tempo drained much faster and you got more much faster per m1 landed, and including if it gets parried. Fights end up being you have infinite ether and tempo the whole fight, or both players are parrying well and literally have zero tempo the whole fight.
So true 👍
Throwback to how one of the main talking points about what was going to make Deepwoken better than rogue according to the devs was that it would be super easy to balance
I also hate fun, I stand with the nerfs, I stand with AGAMATSU!
To this day I will never understand the thought process of replacing reservoir with tempo
Counterpoint to the tempo point:
Reservoir was not fun in the slightest for anyone.
Back then the mages would just eat umbral regardless to regain that reservoir too.
Once that was removed it no longer was a problem. Youre conflating an issue with reservoir and an issue with attunement items being unbalanced.
@DanVR1 no, i simply pointed out a second flaw
Reservoir was still an awful system
Ganks and PvE especially suffered from this, seeing as how after your first combat tag, you would be unable to get any reservoir back for the remainder of the gank.
If you wanted to use any mantras after a single fight mid gank (even if you won), you would still be forced to sit at a campfire doing nothing. That wasn't fun.
@Bloomyp id rather have to m1 trade with people in ganks than get blown up by a million mantras your point sucks PVE in this game is already to easy and if people need ether for diluvian that bad they can just make it so you get a resivior pack from killing mobs and the same thing with people if ganks become to stale from parry trading
tempo and reservoir at the same time is kind of a lot, why not just make it so mantras don't refill tempo so it operates similar to how reservoir used to? the damage of mantras was never the problem it was always how easy it was to spam mantras, so the best way to stop mantra looping would of course be stopping mantras from granting ether
I think the existence of hero blades without any other requirements besides their attunement is fundamentally flawed, it encourages to play around your mantras and avoiding m1s at all costs, while still benefiting good damage and a good crit.
''In a couple hours'' yeah no this is a deepwoken update, 500 decades NOW.
huh
hope u get well soon(i mean he sounds sick btw)
"The way that you remove metas, is that you take the stuff thats falling behind and not in meta and you buff it. You dont take the things that are working and nerf the shi out of them, doesnt work that way. The moment you do that you've created a worse, you've created a toxic meta cause people are upset and now they have to look for something that actually works. Its a bad direction in terms of development." -Piratesoftware Thor
This is why I'll buy you're perfume!
when reservoir was in the game as a mage when you ran out you just ate mantra stones (umbral, gale stones, etc) and youd be back up to 75% reservoir so idk
atp just remove modifiers, if they nerf them to the ground whats the point on using em
they still have a place in the game
The changes suggested by agamatsu are not a gut, you are overreacting. Do the math yourself instead of blindly believing other youtubers that crutch on mage builds.
@@comradexdface do the math on what?
Non damage mantras :
@@Bazinguh mf's just be replying anything
They should definitely add back reservoir, as an old player I believe after tempo was added it became more build vs build then skill vs skill.
Tbh i think it would be better to give it a threshold. After 4 mods you start losing damage by small amounts (the damage would scale down faster on cloud stones stratus stones ect.) i feel like that would help more
Dan vr is really reading my mind. The core concepts and game mechanics of deepwoken is foggy which makes it nearly impossible to balance.
this video will not be seen by devs; you need to SCREAM TILL YOUR LUNGS GIVE OUT TO CHANGE SOMETHING 🐊🐊🐊
Deepwoken after never listening to their community then deciding to listen to the worst suggestion in deep history like I swear if this actually becomes a thing I'm going to crash out
sucks to suck
"i'm going to crash out" ☝🤓
deepwoken players on their way to reply insulting the only guy who gets it 😭
Deepwoken players when they need to actually play the game right 😳😳😳😲😲🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
Thank you@@random6498
I been talking about this tempo stuff since verse two dropped, I been running mage builds since game dropped and I have never actually had ether issues post verse two
i miss old deepwoken flourish that was its own form of inf combo prevention...
Three to four weeks ahead… I’m always three to four weeks ahead
havent played much deepwoken pvp/pve after verse 1 because of the tempo system, its cool and all but like it serves as a bandage over a wound (also sometimes you can vent and it would just not push them away)
also idk why they removed reservoir to begin with and shrines are stolen ideas from ror2 which only worked because the game was an actual roguelike, they gotta make it more downside to use them
@@mogaming163 inspiration isnt stealing
and the main shrines give u perm flaws dude
yunshul even kills u if u dont got a bell
bc u cant just press G and everythings fine
u gotta use it properly
@@pegasusrr3156 im talking about the shrines that require knowledge (i think they are called deep shrines)
@@pegasusrr3156 there should be an indication for what happened then, it looks like a bug when they are in range of the vent but do not get pushed back, it also still gives you the endlag.
patiently waiting for another shrine of order nerf. it was a meme shrine that turned into free stats with no skill required
Real shit
What do stats have to do wit skill gng💔
never gonna happen, and it shouldnt happen. shrine of order is just build making culture at this point another nerf will just make 90% of the current builds overpowered and with how popular deepwoken is right now itll take years to get balanced out. much longer than it took for pre-nerf shrine builds to be phased out
danvr wth I just listened to their resovoir thing WHY ARE YOU SO RIGHT I STARTED PLAYING SINCE VERSE TWO AND UR SO RIGHT 😭😭
and before anyone says it didnt work like that literally on my channel "the best players i've ever fought are bad" literally shows that WITH my mage build, the longer we fought the less ether/res I had so I had to get up close and focus on m1 and parry trading.
@@DanVR1 I've been yapping about tempo being bad for the game to my homies for ages, the issue being brought to the spotlight is like a dream come true thank you Daniel Virtual Reality Number One
i love how all of us just watched this vid and lost their minds
Actual good vid Bump
The only real way you would be out of ether is if their is a major skill gap between you and who your fighting
I miss reservoir but i also dont want to lose venting
we can have both I hate how conversations about deepwoken balancing are always in terms of extremes. Take the best parts of both verses and bring them together.
This is exactly how I want the game to play I literally saw someone ice skating in chime like 10 times..
0:40 Onslaught hitbox (It's a high-damage true guardbreak with full armor mantra)
onslaught is buns bro
One day, unc, you will be heard, changes are going to be made, and it is gonna be truly a deepwoken
we have to wait a for a major update for this core mechanic to change so goodluck
I'm pretty sure if you added reservoir back, made venting take from reservoir, and slightly lowered parry cd the game would feel much better imo
I wish we had a mix of both verse 1 and 2 combat to bring out the strengths of both of those combat systems
YES YES YES YES PLEAAASE
May i remind you that when reservoir existed mages still didn't run out of mana because of the eating ingredients talent from the pleetsky dude
@@joshgab7827 literally just nerf that talent lol?
Happy PVP mage build gettin these treat meant but for me honestly at 16 mods your damage reduction should be 65% instead of 80. So that you will now have to press 6/10 keys on your keyboard and if you miss 6/10 you do less damage
Now completing 10/10 you have that nothing happened to it but this only only apply to PVP cheese mantra:
Shadow gun(blast)
Flame eruption
Shadow prison frost
Ect
And they don’t touch the PVE mantras
If they do implement the damage reductions based off modification I could see it working... Slightly, only if they rework a lot of mantra sizes and such like what they did to fire blade a while ago cause if this is implemented raw mantras like Air Force, ice beam both servants wardens blades hell masters flourish all obsolete
agree a lot with this but i think it could be circumvented if the devs really think about how to not let mantras like these catch stray hits though
I don't think we need reservoir back we just need to have elemental rebound or whatever it's called (passive which grants tempo on mantra hit) removed and shadow should steal significantly less ether/tempo than it currently does
additionally add 40 hp to base hp and remove vitality and erudition
Devs should listen to unc virtual reality and his centuries of wisdom fr (good vid btw)
i dont think its good for people that think that the ping most ppl play at is unplayable to be the most prominent voices for balancing
attunementless mantras don’t rely on modifiers or even let them even be used, so this change will definitely bring upon a great attunementless meta
Remember how you got tempo only after m1s to prevent magey playstyle, and then they made mantras give tempo, completely butchering the whole point of the system
if they remove mantras giving tempo then it would be fine
heres the problem in depth with your argument
lets say we completely remove tempo, the game already has a lot of bullshit combos and moves that can get you into the enemy's face. you got nothing you can do against that and every move is punished with 10 fold of what it is rn. mages would LITERALLY thrive because now there would be reservoir and they can cast WAY more mantras then prechange where everyone kinda had equal grounds against one another. the mere fact that kyrscleave silentheart that has slapped a fucking nemesis on the funny bone sword can climb chime and be like 1700 elo REALLY easly and quickly is a proof that if you get a good concept, hone it down until you are both skilled enough with it and can actually put in the damage numbers; you can get that shit to work. and most importantly this is a very good and solid proof that even tho some builds do extremely high damage have stun capabilities or are just generally spammy, it all comes down to skill. you can shutdown a mage build same way you would with an attunementless just by parrying all of their attacks and going into defense. not to forget before the whole mage bullshit started attunementless was INSUFFERABLE to fight against. i literally argued multiple times that frostdraw was a good attunement just for it to be fallen into deaf ears and here we are with one of the most prefered pvp attunements being frostdraw. i feel like core mechanics of the game are just fine. if they did any slight adjustment infact it would create a domino effect that would make certain builds too annoying or too powerful to be able to do against something with. we should tackle the very attunements, their mantras and the costs of usage of those mantras. if mantras costed a little more to use, if they had more downsides other than damage or lack of stun time.
rhis actually reminds me of an argument i once had with someone where i had argued that inhale was a borderline broken talent, and they brushed it off saying ''oh you would have to rework the whole system to fix this one particular talentcard'' when you dont really have to?? just attach a downside such as the mantra that was used in inhale costing 50% of its original value and the mantra that got the buff from inhale becoming 150% of its original cost and having its gem effects lowered by 25%.
i feel like were just jumping on the gun on the balance changes of deepwoken nowadays and it feels very rough seeing something that could genuinely be so good be ruined because everyone has a conflicting opinion and we arent even letting the balance.. balance itself
Personally I would increase the CDs so they can’t just spam 1234 they need to space mantras and leave openings so for every modifier + 5% for the first 3 modifiers and then +10% for every one past 3 also remove tempo re add reservoir but talents like engage give reservoir now instead of
its always shrine of orders fault ngl
Honestly, I like your idea. Reducing the damage depending on how many people are hit by that mantra. Not to mention the the new changes will heavily gutt PVE, especially Frostdraw PVE builds since mantras like warden blades needs so much cloud/stratus stone to properly crowd control.
Gale is gonna be better for this and uhh it will just have a lower aoe and that's it
@holl7w I guess I could switch to Gale, it's just that I main Frostdraw PVE. I should get the hang of Gale
gale tornado with 4 ethernal stones works good but i think its gonna get gutted (also because it lasts longer it gets bigger aswell)
@@CattosForLife I once progged a gale and frost diluvian build. Before I wiped to lag, I realized the fact that tornado is still strong without modifiers, it's just that it's life span is quite short
@warboy_g4ming dont m1 with tornado
Flaming rebound was strong and allowed flamecharm to spam mantras forever
You know what the devs did?they gave elemental rebound to everyone,for free instead of removing
i had one idea
after a full second has elapsed from being hit by an attack (req 1 to be a mantra involved else), the second after (last chance for there to be a mantra involved) if you are hit within that window it has 20% (10-15%?) less damage, and so on before capping at like 3 procs of this
makes things like ice smash with guardbreak into near guaranteed followup, jet kick in the middle of m1 cycle, gb after 2 m1s landed, heavy m1 exhaustion strike heavy m1 and other stuff which shouldnt be in the game
what do you think?
NOOOOOOOO... SPAM IS GONE????? WHAT WILL WE EVER DO....
thank you for the amazing insight Dan virtual reality
the reservoir thing is SOOOO true
You wanna nerf mages in ganks by making them do less damage the more people they hit, while the DW devs are nerfing mages in 1's.
saltchemist used to be meta and now its just buns, there is literally no point in going saltchemist now lol
I Would say this mages are a problem, but if you make it so modifiers reduce damage "mages" would go to elemental paths for their damage, and still get it. If they want to truly rework the game and fix mages, make it so that each time a mantra hits the next ones after deal reduced dmg to players, and the only way to remove that dmg reduction is to land light attacks on a player = to the number of mantras you hit them with.
Simple fix : Dont let tempo build off mantras.
what? drop them mantras rn, ima make a build with them. Nobody told me this was a thing
Can we talk about the people pressing 12345 and doing a 3 bar combo now?
sucks that ironsing and gale will probably get nerfed after this update because theyre both my favorite attunements
pegasus thumbnail
LOL
@@DanVR1 missed opportunity to flip the thumbnail since you reused it LOL
Aga always talking about making an ether god kit when grinding prima like he needs ether with the current temp system
Im not sure why u randomly started throwing shade at shrine of order. The shrine just makes the game better and adds 10x more build variability. Yes, alot of people have copy and paste builds right now, but this would be 100x more prevalent without shrine of order.
honestly bruh only mantras I modify are the rising ones everything else just put a gem n ur chilling. honorable mention flame eruption which being fat is lowk insane in ganks
LAVA SERPENT need a nerf, mage as a whole seems a bit outta pocket cz its really attunement dependent.
Daniel. If they removed damage and multipliers or removed the stacking of such, players would become forced to be more creative with their points instead of the usual suspects, heck just raise the requirements for "lose your mind" and it would cook half the builds, WE NEED A BUILD CLEANSING. Then comes removing chime or ELO and replacing it with over-world rankings. Whatever it is, i hope their team finds it w/ conquest.
Overall, rework build crafting. Remove shrine of order/rework it. If you have alot of hp, you should have little damage; a lot of damage, little hp. attumentless meta is dogshit and should be removed from the game aswell.
Have faith Dan. 🙏🏾
Deepwoken is a lost cause, devs don't care, testers aren't listened to (yes that's real), balances suck, bloodrend meta. Just quit while you can man, deep died a long time ago. Its just delayed, no amount of deep glaze will save this rotting game. Rest well deep, we all miss you.
@ I quit a long time ago.. but still hold out hope that maybe they’ll finally do it some justice.
@@Martoki pfft god aren't you pathetic, having hope for a game like this? Move on friend, it'll hurt less when deep finally stops.
The semblance of balance this game had has fallen so far. I wish devs would stop adding a new legendary every week and focus on trying to fix this game's many, many problems.
DanVR im ngl to u flamecharm is NOT carried by modifiers at ALL its just nutty lol, ive got 3 flamecharm builds that just give u free elo if u use ur brain slightly that all have damn near 0 mods
Flamecharm is terrible without cheese
@@DanVR1 highly disagree.
yes it has really strong cheese but if it were to get removed 2 of my builds would still be insane.
and most the cheese other than the comically large stuff doesnt require mods
DanVR PLEASE bring back reservoir!
Discovered deep right after verse 2 update dropped. Lowkey wish I could’ve experienced verse 1
Verse 1 did some things right but it was honestly worse than what we have now
you get some benefit with verse 1 combat with 90% less quality of life stuff in verse 2
it was less balanced and harder, but it was into the right way the game is meant to be
Alot of the balance issues with verse 1 were because the game was new people didnt know the interactions even existed. Alot of the balancing issues in verse 2 are from sheer incompetence and I will not let anyone conflate those two.
real
shadow gun with no mods is useless tho. Some mantras NEED mods 2 make them even viable.
Aga after getting smth he lost to gutted
🥱 me when I use an obtainable OG Shrine build that can’t be nerfed
if a person with suggestions role would suggest what aga did they would have their role removed instantly
0:27 this the kinda stuff u need to cut out the video lol
??
The snort?
@@circleturtle6831def the snort
no. mage builds need to be gutted in overworld a 10% damage nerf for each extra person hit aint doing shit besides helping flooders
they alr do a solid 50% or so less dmg to allies with canor + give & take so they can freely cast island-sized mantras and not care ab team dmg
the size cap on both flame & shadow mantras needs to be reduced, for example shadow gun should not be able to be the size of an entire house
i still think this games overworld pvp is horrible due to there being no rage/revenge mechanic when fighting 40 different people solo, i genuinely just do not understand why they dont add one
you quite literally just lose if theres 3 or more ppl vs you solo since they can just swap out freely and even worse with mage builds youre being hit from who knows where while taking 2x more damage than the other person is due to the aforementioned canor + give & take
if there is no nerf to silentheart imperial edge im quitting this game bro. no way they nerf big mantras but a weapon that is 3x better than any other weapon is ok
whats the song in the background? it sounds familiar but cant remember what its from
Not my gale mage build…..
5:52 bruh 💀
my poor rising flame... 😓😓
Mage builds? Assassinations is the problem, I sure love getting 50% of my HP gone in 2 seconds.
But as for Mage builds: Flame is always broken and never gets fixed.
You know what I wish for, something that a lot of games do. Another gamemode a bit like it's going to be for Conquest.
Deepwoken (Main Game)
Conquest (Game Event)
Battle Royale (Game Event)
What I hope for is: First Released Deepwoken (Side Game) just so we can experience how the game was back when it first came out. Being Deepwoken itself, before it turned into this absolute mess of a game. Another "anime" game for a better word.
I reckon original players would come back for that and others who want to experience the games first release than as it is now.
i ma be real with you here , verse 1 was not that balanced , i still remember shadow meteor doing 1 bar per meteor , shadow and frostdraw being busted , huge aoe attacks (yes there was some huge mantras like shadow gun and ice eruption) , frostdraw iceberg used to heal like alot
Verse one wasn’t balanced at all everything did a bar lol
also assasination is getting nerfed
@@nacun4740 people always seem to forget ice eruptions being the size of navae camp or shadow gun being ACTUAL cero metralleta like verse one was FAR from balanced bruh
when life weave i need it for my wonder of u build in the future
let bro cook as a mod and he can save deep
Gotta tell agamatsu to bring back resoviour
what do u think should happen with vents if tempo is removed
Venting can still exist it just needs to be tweaked
maybe make erudition less op or smth idk, i never ran out of ether while only having 2 erudition and like 0 charisma and int
Dan my favorite vtuber
my silly ass barely using modifiers
Um yea idk wtf you talking about none of this is in the patch notes
howd we go from parry trading to guardbreak spam and mages
ok mage are extremly good in gank but bro that the point we have to made build for different thing that literally the point of deepwoken bro mage build in chime are ok tier but see how chime 1400elo and above is attunmentless only. they just gonna gut some attunment and made the game even more clonesimulator fr who care of actualy balancing gank when the most unfair mechanics in gank is actualy not comming from the game. some mantra are obviously unplayable without modifier.
that clearly not nerf mage build that just nerf some attunment gale is alr one of the most solide attunment same for thunder and they want to gut flamecharm ?
i hate how deepwoken want us to dont play with our own way day by day
now every good player have to play gale thunder ironsing or attunmentless.
The daily upload is GONE