That school and its administration clearly had no authority over the students, and IMO are partly to blame because of their incredible negligence and incompetence regarding the students… 🤦♂️
I hope the one thing they walk away w/ is, that kids are assholes. Middle school and HIgh school are hard. Kids act terrible. This will happen again and again, and not because of mental illness.
@Tracey Leah It's pretty pathetic, isn't it? He killed the one person who tried to help him but not the little piece of sh*t who stole his gun. I hope that arrogant little f#@%er has karma kick him right in the a$$.
@@mariamak4143 it IS so sad in that perspective. Also infuriating after giving it more thought and comparing the known bullies at my schools back in the day. I realized that this life altering event for so many, was literally no skin off of the bully's back. I'm sure since it wasn't directly related to the guy whole stole his gun, laughed in his face, etc and no criminal charges, he justified it as such, "it wasn't me, not my fault this happened." I would also be willing to bet the guy has bragged about it later, you know like telling his "crazy" high school stories over beers.. it makes them feel big, important. Which when you think about it, it is the foundation of what forms bullies 🤔
They made it seem like the movie was a big reason why he did what he did. When in actuality, it was the years of bullying and harassment that drove him to such an extreme. The school should’ve stepped in much sooner to prevent and put an end to the bullying. Also you can’t sue a movie for what happened.
It sounds like in this and so many other cases, the bullies were never even talked to by the administration. Maybe if someone had asked Michael why he was acting out instead of just punishing him, some of the problems would've come to light sooner. There is NO way the teachers weren't aware at some level. I say that as a former high school teacher.
None of this would have happened if it wasn't for the bulling, that's the catalyst. The movie was the inspiration , the relation to the hatred. This is how good people turn into evil killers.
Well... yes and no. I was bullied, not less than him, let me tell you that much. Why do people get bullied? if you don't retaliate PROPERLY when a bully tests the waters, you're pegged forever. Funny enough, I was called gay in high school, bc I only had one friend and we were always together. One time in arts class, the whole class spent the duration of the class making fun of me. The teacher said not a word. This was in the 90s. So? Me and a ton of other people who've bullied, did we become killers? Quit trying to find a reason: some individuals will become monsters; others will not. Prevention is a eutopia not attainable in real life. He's a pathetic monster: he didn't even shoot the actual bullies, he shot people who were nice. I don't understand why anyone forgave him.
@@raphaellavictoria01 you need to do more reading about brain development and how it affects children. No one said he was innocent or forgiven. Severe bullying is a catalyst for these events. That’s why your statement Started with “yes and no” because, yes it can happen, but no it shouldn’t. This time it did.
The movie may have inspired but the rage was already within his peers created the hate and rage that just boiled within him their were many perpetrators here and unfortunately no one has learned a thing about the causes of such an act bullies create monsters
I didn't like how the constant bullying wasn't addressed very much as a contributing factor. I know that this is supposed to be a copy cat killing but what about the way he was treated?
I agree. Same happened in Columbine, those poor boys were bullied relentlessly. I hate that jock culture and the dumb girls who follow the boys around. I have no sympathy for the victims in most of these high school shootings,
I hope the school was held accountable for allowing "rumors" to be printed in the school paper! Nothing good was coming from that! Who approved that bright idea??? For the bullying to go on for two school years is just unacceptable! Wow!!
Well "rumor has it" has always been a newspaper themed column. Sure especially with school newspapers. But it's not supposed to heinous rumours... individual attacks. More so; innocent filler material for a paper. Such as "Rumor has it Allison thinks she is going hit a home run at tonight's softball game". Crazy AF the staff allowed students to write about anything... especially negative bully shit. Wild. And yes - doubt an adult proofread that paper. But still should be held accountable due to negligence.
“It’s all because of a movie”? No, not all! Yes! Kid’s have been desensitised against violence with movies, video games etc BUT bullying is as much to blame in this case!
There should be harsh punishments for bullies. And there should be a lot of education in the schools, making kids aware that their treatment of others can cause deep trauma in those less loved.
This was a horrific event and I agree that there should more help with regards to mental illness yet no one has even approached the subject of how bullying affects students. There should be a discussion regarding the possibly drastic outcomes of bullying.
YES, just what I was thinking. They always skirt around the bullies and who they affect. That poor kid was driven to desperation (not condoning his actions), but those bullies were just as culpable and should be held to some responsibility.
@@feralon9570 and still isn't a very talked about subject trust me I know from first hand experience. It's hard to actually get the medicine we need to function normally. Doctors are too afraid to give us medicine we need due to possible addiction!
@@craigime not end of story it's cause a school and teachers failed to do there job and make sure students are happy and not being abused by other classmates are teachers and it pretty simple you bully someone enough there gonna respond it probably not in the best way kids don't shoot people for no reason
Honestly I do think bullying was a major part of it but at the same time there are some things that lead me to believe that the film did influence him in some way leading up to the shooting. For example, michael watched the basketball diaries, and not long after started to sport a black trench coat to school. and even though he had not worn such item of clothing DURING the shooting, he had been at times wearing a black trenchcoat like i said, leading up to the shooting.
This is so sad. I know of a family where both sisters committed suicide because of bullying. Bullying can wreck people's lives, teachers really need to address it
What’s even more sad is that he targeted the one girl who didn’t bully or treat him like an outcast.. and I’m only speculating, but I’m guessing the other 2 girls he killed that were in the prayer circle, didn’t bully him either. Not that anyone deserved to be killed more so than the next, but you would think that he would have targeted the kids who bullied him. Why kill the poor girls who didn’t torment you or treat you poorly? Also, the narrator said that this shooting happened “all because of a money”. I beg to differ.. the catalyst was the bullying. Bullying usually is the root cause of school shootings like this. So sad, and so prevalent here in the US. Parents need to lock away their guns more safely if they’re going to be gun owners.
Yes but that girl said she wouldn't be interested in someone like him, not that she just wanted to be friends. So he really had no one who accepted him for who he was. His life must've been miserable, this is not okay for any kid.
@@janetdonald9801 she was honest with him instead of leading him on, he should be gratefull to her for treating him nicely and helping him.. there were other kids he had actual reasons to be mad at
Well I feel the Only one's who Should be handling fire arms of Such is Police and Military It ain't the wild west time n dates no more, So Take them into total control is aww I wish was done Way back. I'm Scottish from Scotland n live in the Irish Republic now n Nope No NEED As such Simple..
These bullies are now in the workplace. My 19 year old daughter just experienced it. It was awful. The company made the bully manager. She and another coworker would taunt my daughter, by walking by her office 40 to 50 plus times a day. Telling upper management she wasn't working, when in fact, her numbers were the highest out of the entire group. Meaning she was doing more than anyone in her department. So, bullying is still not seen for what it really is and the great harm it causes.
Hopefully, adults have more capacity to deal with bullying logically. Kids going through puberty where their hormones and their brains are all over the place all the time don't have those coping skills.
I know I'm a little late to the party, but hearing that this stuff is going on in the workplace is really disappointing. My country has a legality which states that the workplace is responsible for your emotional wellbeing whilst in that workplace - I wish every country would adopt practices at work like this, so bullying can be shut down.
Don't blame the boy? He murdered 3 people and gunned down 5 more. Yes, the system obviously needs an overhaul but saying he has no blame for this is ridiculous. He stole the guns, he brought them to school, and he shot into a prayer group of innocent kids.
She is doing really well. She has a family and children that adore her. She gives speeches and councils children. She even wrote a book. She made the best out of a terrible situation and wants to help children to do their best with their situations.
Did he really say there weren't any warning signs in the beginning of this? The kid brought a gun to school and pointed at someone. On top of that he wrote an essay about killing preps. There were huge warning signs.
I think every kid who was tortured in school by their classmates secretly has fantasies like this. The difference is most of us don’t actually do it. Everyone’s a little crazy.
This school and its administration clearly had no authority over it’s students at all, and IMO are partly to blame because of their incredible negligence and incompetence regarding their students… 🤦♂️
I agree, just like being able to write that a student was gay in their paper? Even when I was in high school in 1998, things were way different but the school paper would not let you print things that would be targeting other students and making fun of them or releasing their sexual orientation like that. This was ridiculous
I’ve always hated this, blame the movie, blame Marilyn Manson, blame Steven King etc etc. Why do they think that writers could somehow empathise with feeling outcast, bullied, angry & shooting-up the school??? 🙄🤬🙄
Such a sad story. Bullies should be severely punished! So many kids live through hell because of them, and they explode eventually under stress, esp. when those kids are as powerless and weak as this boy.
Although he wasn't a copycat killer, there will likely be a story done with Ethan Crumbley and his lunatic family. Different circumstances, but would still make a good episode.
I was bullied bad at 14, physically and mentally, I can sympathize if I had the guts, I would have killed myself. I would have never hurt anyone else. But I do understand. I feel schools need to do a lot more to help stop bullying! Everyone who has ever done this is usually picked on and mentally ill.
@@jadetaylor2443 How does the pro-gun faction not understand that without the gun the death or maiming likely doesn't happen? The only function of a gun is to kill or maim.
I hung out with the goth kids because they were completely accepting of everyone and I was also an awkward, shy kid. They weren't "against everything that was good". I dressed normally and didn't drink or do drugs, no one ever said anything negative about it.
Every time someone under 18 gets hold of a gun and commits a crime, there is an adult somewhere who should be charged as an accessory to that crime. Every. Single. Time.
highschool was terrible for me, you just gotta get through it and build some confiedence in the things you like. maybe schools should teach basic life skills like that
He brought weapons to school so many times and nothing was said or done about it. Never could stand there while someone was bullied in school. I’d stop them in a heart beat and they all knew it.
. I have a little smidgen of sympathy for him . He so desperately needed help , there was no one there to help this child. So sorry for the families who lost their children. What a tragedy.
What do you think happens when you're being bullied and the school allowed it with their newspaper they should have sued the damn School also the kid that was doing the bullying should have went to jail for being a bully I was bullied in school and I still want to get even though the day I die once certain individual but I'm not a murderer teach your kids to have respect for each other instead of being punching God damn heathens
Im not agreeing with the things he did they were truly horrid, i was bullied horrendously for 10 years for being fat or a goth and it does grind you down to the point where you feel you have no out. The school should of done something ! my school should of done something too but they never do they allow the bullying to go on and on until a student has a mental break down.
I'm 50. I was bullied back in the early 80s. Things was thrown at me. I was hit on the head a couple of times. When I turned 16 my mom put me in an Adult High at a college. I had no problems there which I graduated from there. I definitely understand what you went through.
I was bullied at school, and many times it got really bad, but it wasn't in my nature to fight the bullies, so I just froze every time and cried at home afterwards. It never occured to me that I should do anything to them, no matter how unfair things seemed. My parents never understood or knew what was going on. The problem in America is that guns are normal, and almost every home has them. In my country I know nobody who would have a gun at home. That's why school shootings never happen here. They should do something about it.
2012 long time q #1 Peter ? walker pianist (#2) sadly key -and we are all saddened by your experience AnD sharing - parents "never knew" 'they should do...' woulda coulda shoulda nOt knOwing IS a part f living many & myself, certainly nOt fond of THIS quandary knowing the prOblem ~ step 1 critical stay safe'n well
The guns aren't at fault. They didn't pick themselves up and walk into the school to shoot people. Michael had to steal them from a friend's house. Stop blaming guns for people's actions. Remember his first fantasy was with a knife. Are you going to get rid of all knives too, so criminals are the only ones who have guns and knives. Good plan, there.
All that and he didn't even go after the kids who bullied him. After the bully took not just one but TWO guns from him, the bully wins yet again. What a tragedy.
@Kate Yes "That Chapter" is one of the best true crime channels . Also some other good ones are "This is Monsters" and " Coffeehouse Crime ". I find those kind of channels to be more enjoyable to watch than ones like this (the one we're commenting under). I don't know why even though this channel seems to have more of a production budget than ones like I mentioned.
You see the same thing happening time and time again. Bullied and struggling with mental health yet nothing is seen until something awful happens. He was bullied, constantly and yet not one kid, teacher or family see or help. Society is doomed. There is hardly any compassion for people anymore. Bullying effects people on a whole different level. Unless you been through it you would never understand. Everyday being tortured by idiots who think it’s ok and fun. Teachers and schools should do more.
Bullying is how you learn to stand up for yourself. While I don't support it, I've experienced the same hardships. I was bullied and I didn't go around trying to kill. There was no excuse for this wickedness whether he was bullied or not.
Everyone reacts differently in a particular situation. Some flee, some frozen still and some fight back. Most of us can forgive and forget whom bully us, or even don’t give any attention to what people say about us. But some are more sensitive and hurt more easily.
Dumb argument. Not the lesson everyone learns obviously. Good for you you didn't kill anyone...I've seen bullying that didn't teach anything but humiliation and the death of self esteem for the target. Wish I could go back in time and take a stand in support of that poor girl. I recognized the wrong but said nothing. It was daily brutality.
"Bullying is how you learn to stand up for yourself" Or it could drive someone to snap and kill innocent people. Or cause people to have mental problems growing up. It's just a wrong thing to do and should not be tolerated.
I can't believe the narrator said: 'All because of a movie'!! That there is the problem in US society! ffs, this kid was bullied and treated badly and no one tried to help him or take note of his cries for help. But, yeah, let's blame it on a movie and on video games etc...smh. And the politicians all sing the same tune, but nothing has changed, because instead of dealing with the root of the issue, they prefer to point fingers and cover it up with blame and empty words. I feel sorry for the victims, but we all know that not all victims are blameless. And the 'psychologist' summarizes it in a way that does not even taking into account what led up to this kid's poor mental state. But yeah, let's just point fingers.
@@Ladyjojo695 hi there is jay fleming how are you doing today I want some new friends who like mehave you been to Hot Topic my name is jay fleming I live in the Bronx New York lets you and me hang out and I want to do life with you
Shame on that school for allowing something so cruel to be published in a school news letter. With all the bullying and what was printed in the news letter, no wonder this boy snapped.
A junior highschool newsletter with a column called 'rumor has it', where the students can put anything, and the teachers think 'I never would have thought...', but still they confront a kid with big problems openly in front of the other students, in a community where guns are highly appreciated, in a country full of hand guns, where a lawyer dad doesn't even notice that one of his pistols is gone but the parents only think of punishing , and where the movie industry just have pushed a movie where the coolest brightest shining young movie star portrays an outcast snapping school massacre killer - now some would say that's a perfect prescription for yet another school massacre. I give you - USA. I truly hope that another disillusioned 'young 14 year old kid' doesn't see this pathetic presentation, and gets inspired.
"He had a copy of Rage in his locker as part of the Richard Bachman omnibus. This was the incident that moved King to allow the book to go out of print"
it is not the movies fault. Whoever thought a school newspaper with a "rumor has it" column, without ANY proofreading what so ever would be a good idea, should honestly be slapped. I'm in no way attempting to justify his actions, it is just pathetic when it comes to this point because no one can be bothered to reach out and help someone who is so obviously being bullied and picked on.
If he had just gone there a shot his bully I would have some sympathy for him. But he killed his friend and people that did nothing to him. He needed help.
Blending in is the thing that sets the majority of people who kill apart from those who don't. Word to the wise, if someone is off by themselves go out of your way to include them. It may just save lives.
I was not only viciously bullied for years, but one day other kids made a circle around me and threw stones at me. Never did I think about killing anyone.
you probably did, you just dont wanna admit it, i was bullied at school, and i thought about doing something i would regret seriously along with a "friend" of mine, but i thought no, ill just take the bullying like a man, and now i take revenge on society by stealing money from the company i work for , havent been caught in over 10yrs , lol
Wtf where is the School principal about bullying him (school newspaper gay) Bully push people to there limits then you judge his act you don’t see why the person get to this point
its such a shame he didnt kill any of the monsters that actually bullied him, he just killed 3 people from the prayer group, he should have targeted his actual bullies, that would have actually made sense, but i guess he was too weak to even confront and kill his bullies
I don’t care how u look. We are all human and we all have feelings. I totally understand how it’s like to be mocked and belittled. We are all vengeful but if you don’t stop it before it intensifies, it can turn into something really bad. I wish this young man realized how worthy he is and developed a talent instead of diverting his pain to violence. I don’t know him but he probably could’ve made something very great of himself if he just believed things would get better. My heart goes out to the victims and this young man.
Kinda seems like everyone is talking at this kid and noone is talking to him... The solution is always simple, but it's something most people simply won't do...
The narrator said Carneal was sentenced to 25 years. What? For three murders? Actually, he was given three life sentences and will be eligible for parole after 25 years. He’ll be up for parole in 2023. I hope it’s denied.
I went to this school and Michael’s best friend (coincidentally also named Michael) was my next door neighbor. I knew him very well growing up. Everyone in here saying it was the bullying: you have no clue what you’re talking about. Absolutely nobody was surprised he would do something like that. There’s so much more to this story that what the news has reported.
Would be interesting to hear more. Why nobody was surprised he'd do something like that. News reports are, - i don't know how to say it in english, - but i don't trust the media at all. So i wouldn't be surprised that there's much more to this story (as usual). Thanks in advance and best regards !
I'm not saying I approve of what he did, but we need to start taking mental health seriously! Maybe if we did we wouldn't have children sitting in jail with life sentences, and veterans committing suicide!
Surprised he shot at the prayer group. As he had had a good friend among that group and they were not bully’s. I expected him to blow away the jerk who stole his father’s gun. Unless I missed that part. What a tragic life and existence.
It’s very easy to say that a catalyst is to blame for inciting anything. A work of art, whether it incites or provokes, need not be the blame ever, but rather cherished for exposing what is disintegrating in the midst.
This is why bullying needs to be stopped and not ignored AA it often is. Sure not every bullied person goes over the edge but this is now shown as a huge reason kids lash out and often violently.this is particularly sad he actually paid the goth kids to accept him. Yet still was shunned .
The parents tried sued the makers and distributors of the basketball diaries? Umm you needed to sue the school for the slander in the newspaper and the ones who bullied him!
The amount of school shootings that occur should be the cause for concern not a movie. Regardless of my opinion on gun laws why are more and more children getting their hands on weapons, it's crazy and it needs to stop
WRONG - what his family never did is truly unfortunate. Yeah ok let's blame kids for being kids and dismiss the lack of family to go home to where he can learn to have thicker skin and not allow others to tell him who he is. His parents set him up for it.
I was bullied all through childhood and adulthood until I left the country. I can completely understand the need to be wanted, to be appreciated. I could never have hurt any of them, it's just not in my nature but Oooh, I can totally empathise with the feeling.
I can't believe school staff would allow that to be in the school newsletter!! Omg!!!
For real.
Like they couldn’t have a teacher just skim the damn news letter before printing?
Hahahaha. The 90's were a magical time.
I agree, this is terrible.
Yeah… that newsletter was the catalyst for Michaels decline
Why would they allow students to put that in a student newsletter? The school should be held accountable
That school and its administration clearly had no authority over the students, and IMO are partly to blame because of their incredible negligence and incompetence regarding the students… 🤦♂️
I agree totally
I hope the one thing they walk away w/ is, that kids are assholes. Middle school and HIgh school are hard. Kids act terrible. This will happen again and again, and not because of mental illness.
This happened over 25 years ago before the anti bully campaigns in schools.
Yes wth???? Poor boy
Blaming a movie is a cop out from the adults in this boy's life, who failed him and his victims.
100%
This Boys Life? Another good DiCaprio movie.
And I bet the bullies grew up to still be bullies..
@Tracey Leah It's pretty pathetic, isn't it? He killed the one person who tried to help him but not the little piece of sh*t who stole his gun. I hope that arrogant little f#@%er has karma kick him right in the a$$.
@@guillermo3564 Ditto 😏
And raise bullies , thats so sad
@@mariamak4143 it IS so sad in that perspective. Also infuriating after giving it more thought and comparing the known bullies at my schools back in the day. I realized that this life altering event for so many, was literally no skin off of the bully's back. I'm sure since it wasn't directly related to the guy whole stole his gun, laughed in his face, etc and no criminal charges, he justified it as such, "it wasn't me, not my fault this happened." I would also be willing to bet the guy has bragged about it later, you know like telling his "crazy" high school stories over beers.. it makes them feel big, important. Which when you think about it, it is the foundation of what forms bullies 🤔
Wishing them dead mf
They made it seem like the movie was a big reason why he did what he did. When in actuality, it was the years of bullying and harassment that drove him to such an extreme. The school should’ve stepped in much sooner to prevent and put an end to the bullying. Also you can’t sue a movie for what happened.
It sounds like in this and so many other cases, the bullies were never even talked to by the administration. Maybe if someone had asked Michael why he was acting out instead of just punishing him, some of the problems would've come to light sooner. There is NO way the teachers weren't aware at some level. I say that as a former high school teacher.
None of this would have happened if it wasn't for the bulling, that's the catalyst. The movie was the inspiration , the relation to the hatred. This is how good people turn into evil killers.
The murderer is the victim? Lol
@@kwikky22 yes, the murderer is clearly also the victim
Well... yes and no. I was bullied, not less than him, let me tell you that much. Why do people get bullied? if you don't retaliate PROPERLY when a bully tests the waters, you're pegged forever.
Funny enough, I was called gay in high school, bc I only had one friend and we were always together. One time in arts class, the whole class spent the duration of the class making fun of me. The teacher said not a word. This was in the 90s.
So? Me and a ton of other people who've bullied, did we become killers? Quit trying to find a reason: some individuals will become monsters; others will not. Prevention is a eutopia not attainable in real life.
He's a pathetic monster: he didn't even shoot the actual bullies, he shot people who were nice. I don't understand why anyone forgave him.
@@raphaellavictoria01 you need to do more reading about brain development and how it affects children. No one said he was innocent or forgiven. Severe bullying is a catalyst for these events. That’s why your statement
Started with “yes and no” because, yes it can happen, but no it shouldn’t. This time it did.
@@kwikky22
I know right 🧐How TF is that even possible this world is ass backwards 🤷🏾♀️
The movie may have inspired but the rage was already within
his peers created the hate and rage that just boiled within him
their were many perpetrators here and unfortunately no one has learned a thing about the causes of such an act
bullies create monsters
I didn't like how the constant bullying wasn't addressed very much as a contributing factor. I know that this is supposed to be a copy cat killing but what about the way he was treated?
I agree. Same happened in Columbine, those poor boys were bullied relentlessly. I hate that jock culture and the dumb girls who follow the boys around. I have no sympathy for the victims in most of these high school shootings,
It was completely the bullying he even attempted to take gunsto school the day before but it didn't happen that way
These reporters really left out a lot of facts
I hope the school was held accountable for allowing "rumors" to be printed in the school paper! Nothing good was coming from that! Who approved that bright idea??? For the bullying to go on for two school years is just unacceptable! Wow!!
Well "rumor has it" has always been a newspaper themed column. Sure especially with school newspapers.
But it's not supposed to heinous rumours... individual attacks. More so; innocent filler material for a paper. Such as "Rumor has it Allison thinks she is going hit a home run at tonight's softball game".
Crazy AF the staff allowed students to write about anything... especially negative bully shit. Wild. And yes - doubt an adult proofread that paper. But still should be held accountable due to negligence.
“It’s all because of a movie”? No, not all!
Yes! Kid’s have been desensitised against violence with movies, video games etc BUT bullying is as much to blame in this case!
Absolutely!
Desensitizing doesn't change right and wrong.. healthy people will still be able to tell the difference..
Right. That newsletter article! Wtf
They do put ideas into fragile minds though
running in circles
So the school basically kicked off the bullying. Way to contribute to your student's well being (and at that pivitol age).
There should be harsh punishments for bullies. And there should be a lot of education in the schools, making kids aware that their treatment of others can cause deep trauma in those less loved.
This was a horrific event and I agree that there should more help with regards to mental illness yet no one has even approached the subject of how bullying affects students. There should be a discussion regarding the possibly drastic outcomes of bullying.
YES, just what I was thinking. They always skirt around the bullies and who they affect. That poor kid was driven to desperation (not condoning his actions), but those bullies were just as culpable and should be held to some responsibility.
Totally agree with you!
This was over 25 years ago, anti bullying campaigns weren't around then. Mental health was something that wasn't talked about.
@@feralon9570 and still isn't a very talked about subject trust me I know from first hand experience. It's hard to actually get the medicine we need to function normally. Doctors are too afraid to give us medicine we need due to possible addiction!
🤣😂🤣😂
and the bully is still alive... innocent lives lost...
It wasn't because of a movie. It was unchecked bullying that caused it all.
it wasn't because of bullying either. he got a gun and shot up the school- end of story
@@craigime not end of story it's cause a school and teachers failed to do there job and make sure students are happy and not being abused by other classmates are teachers and it pretty simple you bully someone enough there gonna respond it probably not in the best way kids don't shoot people for no reason
Honestly I do think bullying was a major part of it but at the same time there are some things that lead me to believe that the film did influence him in some way leading up to the shooting. For example, michael watched the basketball diaries, and not long after started to sport a black trench coat to school. and even though he had not worn such item of clothing DURING the shooting, he had been at times wearing a black trenchcoat like i said, leading up to the shooting.
@@craigimeit was because of bullying stop it
@@babyjuice98 it wasn't... Stop it
Who on earth allowed the students to publish that bit about his sexuality???? Unbelievable.
This is so sad. I know of a family where both sisters committed suicide because of bullying. Bullying can wreck people's lives, teachers really need to address it
teachers get bullied too.
What’s even more sad is that he targeted the one girl who didn’t bully or treat him like an outcast.. and I’m only speculating, but I’m guessing the other 2 girls he killed that were in the prayer circle, didn’t bully him either. Not that anyone deserved to be killed more so than the next, but you would think that he would have targeted the kids who bullied him. Why kill the poor girls who didn’t torment you or treat you poorly? Also, the narrator said that this shooting happened “all because of a money”. I beg to differ.. the catalyst was the bullying. Bullying usually is the root cause of school shootings like this. So sad, and so prevalent here in the US. Parents need to lock away their guns more safely if they’re going to be gun owners.
Yes but that girl said she wouldn't be interested in someone like him, not that she just wanted to be friends. So he really had no one who accepted him for who he was. His life must've been miserable, this is not okay for any kid.
@@janetdonald9801 Ok, and that gives him the right to kill her? Very strange thinking.
@@ca819 not at all. No one has the right to kill someone.
@@janetdonald9801 she was honest with him instead of leading him on, he should be gratefull to her for treating him nicely and helping him.. there were other kids he had actual reasons to be mad at
Well I feel the Only one's who Should be handling fire arms of Such is Police and Military
It ain't the wild west time n dates no more, So Take them into total control is aww I wish was done Way back. I'm Scottish from Scotland n live in the Irish Republic now n Nope No NEED As such Simple..
These bullies are now in the workplace. My 19 year old daughter just experienced it. It was awful. The company made the bully manager. She and another coworker would taunt my daughter, by walking by her office 40 to 50 plus times a day. Telling upper management she wasn't working, when in fact, her numbers were the highest out of the entire group. Meaning she was doing more than anyone in her department. So, bullying is still not seen for what it really is and the great harm it causes.
Hopefully, adults have more capacity to deal with bullying logically. Kids going through puberty where their hormones and their brains are all over the place all the time don't have those coping skills.
America is a country of bullies.
Sure are
I know I'm a little late to the party, but hearing that this stuff is going on in the workplace is really disappointing. My country has a legality which states that the workplace is responsible for your emotional wellbeing whilst in that workplace - I wish every country would adopt practices at work like this, so bullying can be shut down.
Do not blame the movie, do not blame a boy with problems... blame the system who value bullies and their attitudes to others over anything else.
Don't blame the murderer? Should all bullies shoot up their schools?
Don't blame the boy? He murdered 3 people and gunned down 5 more. Yes, the system obviously needs an overhaul but saying he has no blame for this is ridiculous. He stole the guns, he brought them to school, and he shot into a prayer group of innocent kids.
Exactly Jorge but they see the crime the don't see what makes u commit crime
nah the boy gets the blame
you nailed it.
Are you guys blaming The Basketball Diaries on these murderers I seriously hope not because that's f****** ridiculous
You know their ass is not the parents not the bullies but a fckng make-believe movie
That poor girl that was left paralyzed… she was so brave. Hope she is doing well
She had no hard feelings towards him! Holy shit
@@justagrrl1981 I feel the same way
I went to school with her in college Murray State she's really sweet girl
@@basicbeach7544 she didn't get a lot of money I don't think she even wanted money she was happy to be alive
She is doing really well. She has a family and children that adore her. She gives speeches and councils children. She even wrote a book. She made the best out of a terrible situation and wants to help children to do their best with their situations.
Did he really say there weren't any warning signs in the beginning of this? The kid brought a gun to school and pointed at someone. On top of that he wrote an essay about killing preps. There were huge warning signs.
I think every kid who was tortured in school by their classmates secretly has fantasies like this. The difference is most of us don’t actually do it. Everyone’s a little crazy.
🎶But we're never gonna survive unless
We get a little crazy
No we're never gonna survive unless
We are a little crazy🎶
I fantasized about whooping someone's ass not shooting them.
This school and its administration clearly had no authority over it’s students at all, and IMO are partly to blame because of their incredible negligence and incompetence regarding their students… 🤦♂️
I agree, just like being able to write that a student was gay in their paper? Even when I was in high school in 1998, things were way different but the school paper would not let you print things that would be targeting other students and making fun of them or releasing their sexual orientation like that. This was ridiculous
🤣😂🤣😂
I’ve always hated this, blame the movie, blame Marilyn Manson, blame Steven King etc etc. Why do they think that writers could somehow empathise with feeling outcast, bullied, angry & shooting-up the school??? 🙄🤬🙄
I can't help but feeling really, really sorry for him...
Such a sad story. Bullies should be severely punished! So many kids live through hell because of them, and they explode eventually under stress, esp. when those kids are as powerless and weak as this boy.
School bullying issomething that affects children very much.
Keep these copycat killers videos coming I like this show.
TOTALLY HOOKED
Although he wasn't a copycat killer, there will likely be a story done with Ethan Crumbley and his lunatic family. Different circumstances, but would still make a good episode.
I was bullied bad at 14, physically and mentally, I can sympathize if I had the guts, I would have killed myself. I would have never hurt anyone else. But I do understand. I feel schools need to do a lot more to help stop bullying! Everyone who has ever done this is usually picked on and mentally ill.
you would have killed yourself if you had the guts?
Because of a movie?!
Because of the availability of guns is closer to the truth.
yeah , cuz america loves to blame these things on anything than the availability of guns !!!!
Well Leo shot people in the movie but you don't blame the movie you blame the gun?
@@jadetaylor2443 How does the pro-gun faction not understand that without the gun the death or maiming likely doesn't happen? The only function of a gun is to kill or maim.
I still can't believe that Michael's father was a lawyer, and he didn't sue the school district for printing that his junior high aged son was Gay!
who told you he knew?
Bullying is so painfull, only a victim knows how it feels.
I have accidentally discover this channel and I am hooked.
Bullies should be kicked out of school.. a school paper like that should never be allowed..
Tennessee floods here 🙏
I hung out with the goth kids because they were completely accepting of everyone and I was also an awkward, shy kid. They weren't "against everything that was good". I dressed normally and didn't drink or do drugs, no one ever said anything negative about it.
I hung with them too. To me, they were modern hippies. Very accepting and kind. Not against everything good like this program says..
goths are different everywhere. probably these goths were "against everything that was good".
You could half the runtime of this documentary if you cut out every time they repeat the same thing over and over
Every time someone under 18 gets hold of a gun and commits a crime, there is an adult somewhere who should be charged as an accessory to that crime. Every. Single. Time.
that's a dumb thing to say
highschool was terrible for me, you just gotta get through it and build some confiedence in the things you like. maybe schools should teach basic life skills like that
The Health High School shooting is something I will never forget. I live in Paducah, KY.
How many times did we really have to hear about the BB Dairies!!!!
He brought weapons to school so many times and nothing was said or done about it. Never could stand there while someone was bullied in school. I’d stop them in a heart beat and they all knew it.
‘All because of a movie” are you Fukin kidding?
. I have a little smidgen of sympathy for him . He so desperately needed help , there was no one there to help this child. So sorry for the families who lost their children. What a tragedy.
What do you think happens when you're being bullied and the school allowed it with their newspaper they should have sued the damn School also the kid that was doing the bullying should have went to jail for being a bully I was bullied in school and I still want to get even though the day I die once certain individual but I'm not a murderer teach your kids to have respect for each other instead of being punching God damn heathens
I don’t think it’s just about a movie, this event shows how bullying can trigger anyone. We don’t know what other people are going through.
Up for parole in *2023* . It's sad, the bullying was/is never, ever *addressed* !!
Just denied parole today! My hometown is very thankful
@@baileyvick3429 💯
they said several times he was bullied
@@craigime Meaning, do something about it!!!!
Im not agreeing with the things he did they were truly horrid, i was bullied horrendously for 10 years for being fat or a goth and it does grind you down to the point where you feel you have no out. The school should of done something ! my school should of done something too but they never do they allow the bullying to go on and on until a student has a mental break down.
I'm 50. I was bullied back in the early 80s. Things was thrown at me. I was hit on the head a couple of times. When I turned 16 my mom put me in an Adult High at a college. I had no problems there which I graduated from there. I definitely understand what you went through.
Agree. I’ve been bullied and my autistic sons and it does have detrimental effects on your life. I feel for this kid.
@@maryannswanson3832 I agree!! What he did was wrong, period!!
@@maryannswanson3832 yes I thought that would be the first person tbh.
I was bullied too. The school never did anything but my parents did. I feel for everyone in this story including him. So terrible.
If you have never been bullied..you have no idea have awful it is.
It's sad the way the goth kids are portrayed as dark and evil "they want nothing to do with good and normal" or whatever. Goth kids aren't bad.
Just an excuse to bully or find something to blame
I want to hang around with the gothic kids
They made fun of the prayer group.
they were referring to that specific group
Bullies, including the rejection was the beginning of this!!!!!!!!
Is this an advertisement for basketball diaries? Good video but damn.
I was bullied at school, and many times it got really bad, but it wasn't in my nature to fight the bullies, so I just froze every time and cried at home afterwards. It never occured to me that I should do anything to them, no matter how unfair things seemed. My parents never understood or knew what was going on. The problem in America is that guns are normal, and almost every home has them. In my country I know nobody who would have a gun at home. That's why school shootings never happen here. They should do something about it.
True. Same in my country Czech Republic.
2012 long time q #1 Peter ? walker pianist (#2)
sadly key -and we are all saddened by your experience AnD sharing - parents "never
knew" 'they should do...' woulda coulda shoulda nOt knOwing IS a part f living
many & myself, certainly nOt fond of THIS quandary knowing the prOblem ~ step 1 critical stay safe'n well
@@rm-ih1ns ?
The guns aren't at fault. They didn't pick themselves up and walk into the school to shoot people. Michael had to steal them from a friend's house. Stop blaming guns for people's actions. Remember his first fantasy was with a knife. Are you going to get rid of all knives too, so criminals are the only ones who have guns and knives. Good plan, there.
All that and he didn't even go after the kids who bullied him. After the bully took not just one but TWO guns from him, the bully wins yet again. What a tragedy.
Lately I have been hooked on true crime, and this channel is one of the best I have came across 👍 Thank you great work‼️
Mrballen75 😉👌
@@krystalarmstrong3181 eh..
@@krystalarmstrong3181 yes, I like his channel also. TC is also one of the best.
@Kate
Yes "That Chapter" is one of the best true crime channels . Also some other good ones are "This is Monsters" and " Coffeehouse Crime ".
I find those kind of channels to be more enjoyable to watch than ones like this (the one we're commenting under). I don't know why even though this channel seems to have more of a production budget than ones like I mentioned.
@@mudmudmudmudmud7605 For sure, those are two of my favorites as well. Any more that's all I watch is true crime. 🤦 I think I need to get out more 😂
You see the same thing happening time and time again. Bullied and struggling with mental health yet nothing is seen until something awful happens. He was bullied, constantly and yet not one kid, teacher or family see or help. Society is doomed. There is hardly any compassion for people anymore. Bullying effects people on a whole different level. Unless you been through it you would never understand. Everyday being tortured by idiots who think it’s ok and fun. Teachers and schools should do more.
No, I think it's the parents! It"s the parents responsibility to look after, love and protect their children.
@@ca819 parents aren’t at school and if you report it they don’t act. It’s hard to tackle but more should be done.
@@Ladyjojo695 hi there is jay fleming how are you doing today I am a loner and I need some friends who like me ok
@@ca819 I totally agree
what exactly should they do more?
Thanks for adding the episodes
This is so horrific! The poor families of the 3 lying dead. ☹️💔😢
Young lives wasted. Even the young perpetrator.
Bullying is how you learn to stand up for yourself. While I don't support it, I've experienced the same hardships. I was bullied and I didn't go around trying to kill. There was no excuse for this wickedness whether he was bullied or not.
Everyone reacts differently in a particular situation. Some flee, some frozen still and some fight back. Most of us can forgive and forget whom bully us, or even don’t give any attention to what people say about us. But some are more sensitive and hurt more easily.
Dumb argument. Not the lesson everyone learns obviously. Good for you you didn't kill anyone...I've seen bullying that didn't teach anything but humiliation and the death of self esteem for the target. Wish I could go back in time and take a stand in support of that poor girl. I recognized the wrong but said nothing. It was daily brutality.
"Bullying is how you learn to stand up for yourself"
Or it could drive someone to snap and kill innocent people. Or cause people to have mental problems growing up.
It's just a wrong thing to do and should not be tolerated.
I can't believe the narrator said: 'All because of a movie'!! That there is the problem in US society! ffs, this kid was bullied and treated badly and no one tried to help him or take note of his cries for help. But, yeah, let's blame it on a movie and on video games etc...smh. And the politicians all sing the same tune, but nothing has changed, because instead of dealing with the root of the issue, they prefer to point fingers and cover it up with blame and empty words. I feel sorry for the victims, but we all know that not all victims are blameless. And the 'psychologist' summarizes it in a way that does not even taking into account what led up to this kid's poor mental state. But yeah, let's just point fingers.
💯👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@@Ladyjojo695 hi there is jay fleming how are you doing today I want some new friends who like mehave you been to Hot Topic my name is jay fleming I live in the Bronx New York lets you and me hang out and I want to do life with you
which one of these victims deserve blame?
Shame on that school for allowing something so cruel to be published in a school news letter. With all the bullying and what was printed in the news letter, no wonder this boy snapped.
A junior highschool newsletter with a column called 'rumor has it', where the students can put anything, and the teachers think 'I never would have thought...', but still they confront a kid with big problems openly in front of the other students, in a community where guns are highly appreciated, in a country full of hand guns, where a lawyer dad doesn't even notice that one of his pistols is gone but the parents only think of punishing , and where the movie industry just have pushed a movie where the coolest brightest shining young movie star portrays an outcast snapping school massacre killer - now some would say that's a perfect prescription for yet another school massacre.
I give you - USA.
I truly hope that another disillusioned 'young 14 year old kid' doesn't see this pathetic presentation, and gets inspired.
I'm addicted to this channel..
Me too!!
It's not solely because of the movie, rather it's because of bullying!
it's not because of bullying
"He had a copy of Rage in his locker as part of the Richard Bachman omnibus. This was the incident that moved King to allow the book to go out of print"
Bullies and clueless parents... so so sad.
Did the narrator actually say "All this happened because of a movie". That's beyond ridiculous.
it's just as ridiculous as the people saying it happened because of bullying
it is not the movies fault. Whoever thought a school newspaper with a "rumor has it" column, without ANY proofreading what so ever would be a good idea, should honestly be slapped. I'm in no way attempting to justify his actions, it is just pathetic when it comes to this point because no one can be bothered to reach out and help someone who is so obviously being bullied and picked on.
"And it's all because of a movie." I doubt it. I think it would've happened with or without that movie.
If he had just gone there a shot his bully I would have some sympathy for him. But he killed his friend and people that did nothing to him. He needed help.
Blending in is the thing that sets the majority of people who kill apart from those who don't.
Word to the wise, if someone is off by themselves go out of your way to include them. It may just save lives.
It’s not all because of a movie, it’s because of Michael.
Micheal represents a lot of young adults in this world with mental illness !
Graduates from there in 2014 and we still had prayer circle every morning before school♥️
I was not only viciously bullied for years, but one day other kids made a circle around me and threw stones at me. Never did I think about killing anyone.
you probably did, you just dont wanna admit it, i was bullied at school, and i thought about doing something i would regret seriously along with a "friend" of mine, but i thought no, ill just take the bullying like a man, and now i take revenge on society by stealing money from the company i work for , havent been caught in over 10yrs , lol
@@petejames1326 just because you thought about it, doesn't mean she did.
Not everyone is as strong as you 🙄
Wtf where is the School principal about bullying him (school newspaper gay)
Bully push people to there limits then you judge his act you don’t see why the person get to this point
I agree with you
Why would the school allow that to be published? Michael went about this the complete wrong way 😞
If that happened to my BFF I would've said I was his GF. That would've killed that rumour.
it wouldn't... you'd just be a liar
Thank you for a well made full documentary ! Hard to find good and new stuff on utube
Goths stand "against everything good, and normal"? Whoa. Check your premises. Quit worshipping your stereotypes.
its such a shame he didnt kill any of the monsters that actually bullied him, he just killed 3 people from the prayer group, he should have targeted his actual bullies, that would have actually made sense, but i guess he was too weak to even confront and kill his bullies
I don’t care how u look. We are all human and we all have feelings. I totally understand how it’s like to be mocked and belittled. We are all vengeful but if you don’t stop it before it intensifies, it can turn into something really bad. I wish this young man realized how worthy he is and developed a talent instead of diverting his pain to violence. I don’t know him but he probably could’ve made something very great of himself if he just believed things would get better. My heart goes out to the victims and this young man.
Kinda seems like everyone is talking at this kid and noone is talking to him... The solution is always simple, but it's something most people simply won't do...
The narrator said Carneal was sentenced to 25 years. What? For three murders? Actually, he was given three life sentences and will be eligible for parole after 25 years. He’ll be up for parole in 2023. I hope it’s denied.
I went to this school and Michael’s best friend (coincidentally also named Michael) was my next door neighbor. I knew him very well growing up.
Everyone in here saying it was the bullying: you have no clue what you’re talking about. Absolutely nobody was surprised he would do something like that. There’s so much more to this story that what the news has reported.
Would be interesting to hear more. Why nobody was surprised he'd do something like that. News reports are, - i don't know how to say it in english, - but i don't trust the media at all. So i wouldn't be surprised that there's much more to this story (as usual). Thanks in advance and best regards !
Care to elaborate?
The actors playing the goths really made me laugh 🤣 35 year olds trying to act like 15 year old rebels LOL 🤣
I'm not saying I approve of what he did, but we need to start taking mental health seriously! Maybe if we did we wouldn't have children sitting in jail with life sentences, and veterans committing suicide!
we wouldn't have a lot of things
Heart breaking.
A good documentary but a little to much of repeating the same clips over and over in it.
Surprised he shot at the prayer group. As he had had a good friend among that group and they were not bully’s. I expected him to blow away the jerk who stole his father’s gun. Unless I missed that part. What a tragic life and existence.
You go Dr.Buzzy. Great voice.
The school newspaper was so out of line it is unbelievable! That school is negligent in his bullying
It’s very easy to say that a catalyst is to blame for inciting anything. A work of art, whether it incites or provokes, need not be the blame ever, but rather cherished for exposing what is disintegrating in the midst.
This is why bullying needs to be stopped and not ignored AA it often is. Sure not every bullied person goes over the edge but this is now shown as a huge reason kids lash out and often violently.this is particularly sad he actually paid the goth kids to accept him. Yet still was shunned .
The parents tried sued the makers and distributors of the basketball diaries? Umm you needed to sue the school for the slander in the newspaper and the ones who bullied him!
This was not because of the movie this was because of bullying people
The amount of school shootings that occur should be the cause for concern not a movie. Regardless of my opinion on gun laws why are more and more children getting their hands on weapons, it's crazy and it needs to stop
What he did was wrong. What the bullies did set him up for it.
WRONG - what his family never did is truly unfortunate. Yeah ok let's blame kids for being kids and dismiss the lack of family to go home to where he can learn to have thicker skin and not allow others to tell him who he is. His parents set him up for it.
There is nothing that ties this to the movie. Total different story
I was bullied all through childhood and adulthood until I left the country. I can completely understand the need to be wanted, to be appreciated. I could never have hurt any of them, it's just not in my nature but Oooh, I can totally empathise with the feeling.