The whole thing is looking fantastic to me ! So glad I pre-ordered the machine and SSF kit on day one ! So many nice improvements over the initial ALP.
Agree, I think it's going to be a game changer by making advanced features more accessible to more people (solenoids, SSF, 23.8" backglass, separate DMD, 4K playfield, etc.) On the ALP HD, some of these things could be added but at a cost that is well beyond the point of entry for the ALP 4KP, and of course we now have Zen part of the family. From what I'm seeing, 2024 is set to be an amazing year.
THanks for the update Jon, def alot of work has been put into this and I appreciate their efforts and your info. I've been doing alot of Vpin research and I am still happy with my decision to preorder, there are some much more expensive and HUGE in size and weight products out there that peak my interest. For the weight, size and price, this is the best thing around by far. For example to gain 17" in the playfield and 120hz will cost 8 grand plus more and 200lbs more not to mention WAY bigger, this is the option I am looking at down the road when 8k and 3f become more the norm.
I cant wait for this. I preordered the SSF kit because I really wanted the enhanced audio for extra realism (think of it as a trade off for the 60hz 👍) Cant wait to see more!
Thank you Jon, I ordered the SSF kit and the control panel(already recieved) at the same time as the 4K. Hopefully the SSF kit is easy to install. I look forward to your upcoming videos and future updates as release time gets near. Oh, if you have the ears of AtGames, you mentioned that potential the special editions 4K might be announced very soon. If thats the case, if one is announced, I wonder if you could have the option of switching to it, even if you have to wait and pay the difference (I assume there is one), since the Addam's Family hasn't shipped yet?
Very welcome and I appreciate your feedback Dale! I'll know more about the SSF kit installation and steps once we get there. I think it's safe to say I'll have a written and video guide to help you along the way. Not sure exactly when that will happen, but hopefully before shipments begin. I'll mention your request to AtGames, I would guess there would be a lot of difficulty in doing what you propose but doesn't at all hurt to ask.
Thanks for the video, makes me a little more excited about the 4k! One thing that has been bugging me: Is audio latency still as bad as with the Pinball HD? In the video it seems that it's way over 100ms (listen to the delay between solenoids or button presses and the corresponding sound effect) :/ Anything
I've listened more carefully to what you're saying while playing it, my hearing is not the best, I'll be honest. But I'm not seeing a noticeable audio delay while playing, but it can be that I'm just less sensitive to it. When the actual production machine arrives, I'll take a closer look into this through my video editing software where I can perform a closer analysis by slowing down the audio+video. The machine shown here isn't the final version, just more recent than the early evt unit that we discussed. I appreciate your comment and Happy New Year!
@@WagnersTechTalk Hey! Thanks for the reply! I must admit that I'm overly sensitive to that as a computer sound/music person. Synchronicity for a keyboarder requires
Wagner, Man I had such a huge comment I was writing and I just lost all of it! UGGG! CliffsNotes time. - These in-depth continued looks at the 4KP are brilliant by you and AtGames! - Even with it's flaws, I'm glad AtGames is innovating with things like the SSF Kit. The strive to enhance products, though risky, is part of making them better. Having said that, I'm also glad they didn't include it as part of the standard 4KP package. The price would've shot up and all for something that may never completely iron out the kinks. - That's why I'm SO HAPPY that AtGames was completely transparent about the new expectations of the SSF Kit, that it may always have some issues (though I wish it could've been revealed before pre-orders went live). AtGames garnered a lot of respect from me by revealing the unfortunate news, as though things like this can effect sales, honesty is more important and powerful and brings real rewards like true customer trust and loyalty. - Now that the SSF Kit issues have been revealed, I do hope AtGames will go the extra mile and do pre-order customers right. I hope they'll allow those aren't happy with this new information and understanding, to be able to cancel their pre-order and get their their $50 "non-refundable" deposit back. It's the right thing to do. - Happy that my existing Joystick control panel will work on the 4KP (the site suggested it would, but nice to see it in action). I just hope I'll be able to keep the exciters disconnected as I do currently on my HD AtGames Legends Pinball. Can't wait for your upcoming Addams Family demo! vgv
I have that happen more times than I can count, so sorry about that. I usually give up after that happens, kudos to you for seeing it through! Thank you, I wanted to get a first look video out on SSF as it's something that I couldn't really check out at the expo. I knew it was there, I could hold my ear next to the cabinet and hear it. I could put my hand on the side and feel the audio, but no way I could make sense out of it with all the other noise lol. AtGames is definitely making bold moves. I don't want to sound like I'm "hyping" it but I will say this: There is a big difference between not having SSF and having it. That said, to your point that's why I reached out to AtGames for their statement and was also impressed by their honest response. It says a lot about the company and why I really enjoy covering their products. I can trust them to do the right thing. That leads me to your additional point. I was going to ask your question tomorrow (Monday), but they proactively asked me to let you know: They will honor preorder cancellation of the SSF kit for any orders made by Nov 5 and to contact them directly for any such requests. Again, they are doing the right thing. I'm sure a more official statement will be forthcoming from AtGames. I did connect the exciters on the ACP for testing, haven't tried it without but can't think of any reason it wouldn't work the same. Something I suppose I should also try at some point. I will be keeping an eye on TAF and keep everyone informed once I know more. There will be some quiet time later this month from me as we'll be doing a family vacation in your neck of the woods (I assume) - Vegas.
Wagner, Such an amazing move by AtGames regarding the refunds for the SSF Kit preorders. If you can let them know, THANK YOU from me! AtGames, BRAVO! vgv
Great video! Do the front exciters under the control panel still have that annoying buzzing like the original Legends Pinball? or has that been resolved?
The new machine has more screws that are installed than with the HD. However, the control panel I installed was the older model (very early version that didn't have the pre-drilled holes in the ACP). However, with the stock panel nor the Arcade Control Panel, I didn't experience the same vibration as I did with the original ALP HD. I can't say it's been resolved, but it's not something I personally had an issue with. Perhaps they lowered the voltage output, I can't say exactly. The "buzzing" was indeed an issue with the original panel, I'm not seeing it here. Then again, I do tend to tweak things and it could be I set the haptics much lower.
I'm seeing a video saying that AtGames will install the SSF for $100 on L4K pre-orders? Have you heard anything about this? Thanks for the info and videos as usual!
Very welcome and thank you for watching! Yes, heard about the SSF installation yesterday. I think it's a great move as several replied to a recent poll in the community tab that they would prefer that AtGames assembles the kits prior to shipment. I'm fine either way, in fact I'd rather install it myself so I can make a how-to video so we'll all know what is involved. I have no idea how easy or difficult it will be.
One other note, if the ssf supports otg ssf or is it dedicated? Would be great to crack it open to see parts used and how it's hooked to board, or an amp. $350 is a bit for 5 speakers ($17 haptics)
Great video. It was helpful and informative. I have two follow-up questions. 1. With the arcade control panel, will there be games on the ALP4K to play with the control panel. Outside of OTG, CoinOps, BYOG, and ArcadeNet, what games are built-in and purchasable that can utilize the joystick, trackball, and buttons? 2. With the other branded collector's editions being announced soon, can you switch a pre-order for the Addam's Family table to a different skin (if announced and available for sale before arrival of the Addam's family branded table). In other words, can I take my deposit and money from the preorder of the standard cab and transfer it to one of the new collector's edition skinned cabs? Thanks!
I'm not sure what the plans are from AtGames as far as arcade/console game packs on the 4KP. In APL (Arcade Play Link) mode (pressing the channel button) you can assign which display to show the game (i.e. backglass, playfield, etc.). Everything on this machine, currently, is pinball related. However, there are several arcade packs available on ALP HD that I suspect you'll also be able to play on the 4KP. You also have OTG for playing pretty much anything you can imagine. One of the reasons for installing the ACP, besides easier navigation, is to have it ready to try out arcade/console packs when they become available, OTG and to make sure everything works before others get their machines. I don't think you can change the machine skin after an order is placed, but I have asked the question.
Yes, I personally notice a big difference without the SSF kit. The deeper bass, the sound of the ball rolling on the table, etc. add to the immersion. I tested with SSF, then without and immediately noticed the difference. I avoid pricing discussions, they are subjective.
Mr. Wagner any word on when we will be getting some new 4K ZEN or Goitlieb pinball gameplay. It’s getting closer to release date and still nothing. ATgames really needs to be more forthcoming.
From my standpoint, once I have a build that shows more I will. However, AtGames currently is QA'ing a build and I'll have to wait until that process is completed and shared with me.
Good video! 2 questions 1. What is the point of the exciters under the control panel if the flippers use the solenoids? So they serve any other purposes? 2. Are you going to release a video of using the SSF kit in OTG?
Thank you, a few answers: 1) Solenoids can be turned on/off. The exciters do provide additional haptics as well, just more options for us. 2) Likely so, more to figure out and didn't want to hold up showing the basics of SSF for that as each application will require further investigation/experimentation.
My understanding is that yes they will and will be something I'll be able to test in an upcoming build. I'll cover that when we get to the SSF *installation* video.
Can't answer that yet, I don't have the SSF kit in-hand at the present time (aside from the kit that was pre-installed, I mean the kit I'll be using to demonstrate the installation). I do have something else in-hand here of importance, but we'll talk about that later. 😉
Thank you for the content. With the SSF kit causing the table to tilt if the volume is to loud. Do you really notice a huge difference in sound without the SSF kit
Yes, I personally notice a big difference without the SSF kit. The deeper bass, the sound of the ball rolling on the table, etc. add to the immersion. I tested with SSF, then without and immediately noticed the difference.
This was a great video for me because I bought the arcade control panel in advance of getting my AtGames Legend 4K pinball game (in a few months) and I also pre-ordered the SSF kit, and I didn't really know what to expect from either option. So your video was very informative. Thanks! I am curious how the arcade games play on the pinball game with the new control panel. Can you choose to view vertical arcade games on the pinball playfield screen? Or are you playing them on the back glass screen? This will be my first AtGames device, and my only experiences for pinball simulation have been on a Playstation console, Apple tablet and on a Steam handheld device. So I am looking forward to getting my new Addams Family game, but I am also looking forward to seeing the other upcoming Zen Studio Games. Will us Addams Family pinballers be able to purchase the other Zen Studios games for our AtGames 4K table? I did pay for the 1 year subscription for games, but I suspect that this just includes access to the less-than-stellar, in-house and Gottlieb games.
Very welcome Dean, happy to hear the video was helpful to you! I also want to say "Welcome aboard!" My first exposure to AtGames products was with the Legends Pinball HD, about two years ago. Since then, I've created a number of videos and written guides. You may find the evt series videos helpful also (if you haven't seen them): wagnerstechtalk.com/guides/#AtGames_Legends_4K_Series I see in APL Mode (Arcade Play Link) you can assign which display the game plays on (playfield, backglass, etc.) At present, there aren't any arcade game packs pre-installed so it's not something I can fully test at this time without using OTG. Yes, you will be able to purchase/download additional Zen Studio tables and play them directly on the 4KP. I suspect there will be many available at launch.
@@WagnersTechTalk Great information. Thanks for the quick reply. I had already gone through your EVT videos, and they helped me decide to buy the game. Plus I have been watching your short videos, showing various games. I appreciate your detailed content and documentation.
Arcade1up flippers rest around 35 inches. The front of the machine is like 36 1/2 or 37 with lock down bar close to 37. I hoped the legends 4k p would have had the same playing height
They go through production runs of each cabinet design based on qty, they aren't actually built-to-order. As soon as I receive my cabinet and SSF Kit, I'll demonstrate what's involved and create a written guide to make it even easier. The one shown here is a loaner that already had the SSF kit pre-installed.
@@WagnersTechTalk Looks like this SSF kit installation issue was solved. Got an email to have it pre-installed for $50. Extends delivery by 2-4 weeks. I can live with that 😉
Unlikely, from the original assembly video, it looked like both panels in the backbox are LVDS, versus the eDP used for the original back glass. Both the BSA and stock ALP 4K backglass are 24" panels. It's just the smaller 8" DMD in the ALP 4K vs the 12" or 15" depending on the BSA box style you pick. If you really need a larger DMD, it would be much less expensive to mod in a larger DMD and pray that the Geekworm LVDS to HDMI convertor works so you can keep the stock DMD functionality.
The COIN DOOR not being CENTERED seems like an obvious design aesthetic flaw. AtGames should come clean with WHY they can't center that Coin Door...otherwise the detractors will not stop dishing the entire machine because of that "flaw".
This machine came from the show with everything pre-installed, including the SSF. I want to show the actual kit as it arrives and this isn't my machine to keep but rather a loaner. I plan to show the full installation with the full kit as we would receive it from AtGames.
@MrSteveonbroadway The holes and bass speaker cover are already added for you. Installation should be fairly easy without drilling, but we'll verify that in a later video.
Pinball FX will only be available on the Legends Pinball 4K products, not the ALP HD. The hardware on the ALP HD isn't capable of playing them natively on the machine. Although, you can always use OTG with a connected PC. More on that here: wagnerstechtalk.com/alpfx
Thanks for all the hard work putting the sound together for this video! I am really impressed at how much effort AtGames put into the sound! Also, I'm impressed that the "pack in" tables look and sound actually really, really good and the 4k monitor is premium quality. Really, the only ding is the cabinet color.
I've got a super ignorant question. I don't own, and haven't ever played the original Legends Pinball. I see a lot of comments out there about something called "coinOpsX?" going away? Will the 4K Pinball be able to play vertical arcade games using the BYOG/Add-on feature that you described in this video? ua-cam.com/video/iHGMORDxC9M/v-deo.html
Not an ignorant question, it's a tough one to answer at this point. CoinOpsX is a 3rd-party application that is community developed. As a result, we'll have to wait and see what the community creates to take advantage of the faster processor and other features of the machine.
They aren't directly comparable. It's hard to explain audio, but the BSA Haptics kit sounds very good compared to the stock audio. However, the SSF kit provides multiple channels of audio and each independent of the other allowing sound to travel across the playfield. To accomplish this, the tables themselves have to be coded to support what speaker(s) receive the audio and at what intensity. Two very different experiences.
Interesting that atgames said there was no perfect solution to haptics setting off accelerometer. When i installed a 2 haptic/1 shaker puck to amp and dedicated 24V psu in alp hd, i tested the speakers mounted to base and side cabinet as theyre doing. No go, was tripping accelerometer. I fixed it by mounting the haptics on blocks, then using foam as sound vibration blockers at base mount. The setup is an elevated speaker system not contact with cabinet at all, allowing me to run accelerometer now at max with high volume and bass. Look like ill be doing the same with their new model
@WagnersTechTalk I can send imgur pics if interested of the setup. I ended up biting today and got the Mars table with ssf installed. I may have spent far more than what I could've pieced together but I'll take a shot and crack it open on drop date to see how it's done. One note is ssf kit is only 90 day warranty, but its 1 year IF atgames installs it.
I know you were manually trying to demonstrate the surround effects in the segment at 8:10, but I'm a bit confused. As I understand it, the only audio that should "travel" and come from the surround speakers should be the physical/mechanical sounds of the table (like the rolling ball, the flippers, the poppers and targets, etc.), but the music and callouts should only be coming from the front speakers and the subwoofer. Is that the case? It kind of sounded like the music was traveling with the ball, but that might just be a side effect of your attempt at simulating the experience.
Music comes from the two stereo speakers on the backbox. Just imagine the ball rolling sounds and target sounds are coming from various directional speakers in the 4 corners + the bass shaker. It was the best way I could come up with. The only true way is for you to experience it is in-person. This wasn't a perfect example, as you also hear the music move from the left-right channel speakers which is not the case in front of the machine. No way for me to separate the music and other sounds, if that makes sense :)
Question for you: The Adams Family preview had scores superimposed on the table itself - do you know if that will be an option to turn on/off and will that be a feature of other pinball tables? I can imagine some people like it and others will find it distracting.
I was hoping maybe you were able to catch a glimpse of how the SSF kit was wired into the cabinet, whether it wires directly into the mainboard (or some other stock board that is apart of the stock cabinet, or if the SSF kit itself comes with something ACTUALLY more than just the 4 exciters and sub. I ask because I already had an SSF installed on my HD, which I would just take out an use, since I like my Dayton HDN8s WAY more than the DAEX58FPs that it appears they are using on their kit. I had tried those on my ALP and they weren't powerful enough for me. AtGames for some reason simply does not want to let me know if the kit is just the speakers, or if it will come with a special PCB and/or 7.1 sound card. They keep giving me EVERY excuse in the book as to why they cant help answer that at the moment. The answer is literally the difference between me buying the SSF kit or not. Having to buy it feels like a waste a money as is, even if it comes with other items i would need besides just the speakers. If it was speakers only, it would be 100% COMPLETE waste of money, lol. Let me know what you saw internally.... Even if you aren't 100% sure, your best educated guess will suffice... just anything, please! No more "AtGames" type answers 🤣
Please see towards the end of this video, you'll see some shots of the inside of the cabinet. I don't know the BOM for the SSF kit, until I do I can't determine what is in the kit and what comes pre-installed.
@@WagnersTechTalk dang, yea unfortunately, the video clip didn't happen to show where the Dayton exciters were wired to. Lol, it actually doesn't even matter anymore to be honest, as I just paid for my pre-order of AFM CED and the SSF Kit + Preinstallation. Didn't want to take the chance of having to pay full price later on if I find its more than just the speakers. Thanks anyways though... Still hope you are able to obtain a more in depth walkthrough of one sooner than later.
Gotcha, yeah hoping to show the installation of the kit from beginning-end. Not sure how many people are going to need it, looks like most took AtGames up on the pre-installation deal. However, I'll create it anyway (once available) as I'm sure it will be helpful to someone. May also be a good reference for those who had it pre-installed and want to see what all they missed out on Lol.
Any updates on the legends 4kp. I am starting to get worried with this radio silence from ATgames. No 4K Gotlieb or Zen table gameplay full speed yet. I am a wave 1 pre order. Starting to get worried it’s not going to be ready or just flat out won’t be able to run the games. They should just let us install the operating system on our own PC.
I understand your concern. I'll have updates starting later this week. You're going to be seeing a lot more 4KP coverage coming from me. I've pretty much dedicated the rest of this month and Feb. to it. Stay tuned!
Thank you for the response. I know you have no control on dates. I’d you could give them feedback though. They are really cutting it close. We pre ordered months ago and we still don’t know what comes in the ssf kit and we still don’t even know if this thing will run the games in 4K. I will keep my eyes peeled for your videos but they need to be more forthcoming with information. Anyways keep up the amazing work and content. Thank you for your time ! Have a nice day
I appreciate you, I was playing The Addams Family tonight and played the best game I ever have (PC or otherwise), 109,195,420 and this wasn't on a PC. It's not an easy game and my score is likely nothing compared to others. But for me, I was excited... hint hint, wink wink.
AtGames will let us know when they're ready to announce the ALU 4k details. I'm sure the focus, at the moment, is getting the Legends Pinball 4K in the hands of those that pre-ordered. Once I know more, I definitely will share it.
Sure, we'll know more but it will likely be early in 2024, if I were to guess. I'd love for us to know more before the end of the year, but it's not up to me.
Hi John, another great review, can´t wait for my ALP 4K - thank you so much for the hard work you put in. One follow up question: Are we still going to need the Video Input Backglass Switchboard in order to use custom backglas art, etc. ? Cheers
Very welcome and thank you for watching! No, the VIBS is integrated into the main board (PCB) on the 4KP. The hardware tour video goes into this a bit more by showing all 3 HDMI inputs, if interested: wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4kevt/#Part_1_Hardware_Tour
@@WagnersTechTalk Cool thanks John, I only hope I can make the ALP work with 220 V and not having a too hard time to implement the SSF Kit - but thanks to you I am confident:-) Cheers and keep up the good work
Thank you! I plan to show SSF+OTG at a later time, more research and testing is needed. In this video, I wanted to demonstrate what I couldn't at Pinball Expo due to the background noise at the show. I'll continue to fill in the gaps, where I can.
CoinOpsX is a 3rd party application, once the 4KP's get into the hands of community developers, we'll find out. AtGames had also released several arcade/console packs for the ALP HD that will most likely come to the 4KP as well. Ease of navigation and use over OTG was my main reason for installing the ACP.
😊let’s hope you are able to release some news soon. Not sure why ATgames is doing this to it’s customers. So close to release date and zero info. I know I am beating a dead horse but my patience is like a 2 year olds at this point lol😂
I don't own an A1UP pinball machine, but you can find the dimensions of the 4Kp here to compare:wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4kevt/#Cabinet_Comparison_HD_vs_4KP
Just went on Arcade1up website says there flippers rest at 35 inches…..so is it safe to say they would be the same since legends 4k p measurement says 35 inches in the front ?
@@WagnersTechTalkDo you think the monitors in the 4kp are going into power saving mode and turning off game mode? Lots of monitors default back to game mode off after powering down. Which would increase the flipper lag.
The whole thing is looking fantastic to me ! So glad I pre-ordered the machine and SSF kit on day one ! So many nice improvements over the initial ALP.
I love it that they implemented so much cool tech I only see in 7k VP machines here.
This makes me really excited for this pinball machine.
Agree, I think it's going to be a game changer by making advanced features more accessible to more people (solenoids, SSF, 23.8" backglass, separate DMD, 4K playfield, etc.) On the ALP HD, some of these things could be added but at a cost that is well beyond the point of entry for the ALP 4KP, and of course we now have Zen part of the family. From what I'm seeing, 2024 is set to be an amazing year.
THanks for the update Jon, def alot of work has been put into this and I appreciate their efforts and your info. I've been doing alot of Vpin research and I am still happy with my decision to preorder, there are some much more expensive and HUGE in size and weight products out there that peak my interest. For the weight, size and price, this is the best thing around by far. For example to gain 17" in the playfield and 120hz will cost 8 grand plus more and 200lbs more not to mention WAY bigger, this is the option I am looking at down the road when 8k and 3f become more the norm.
I cant wait for this. I preordered the SSF kit because I really wanted the enhanced audio for extra realism (think of it as a trade off for the 60hz 👍)
Cant wait to see more!
Did the same!
Thank you Jon, I ordered the SSF kit and the control panel(already recieved) at the same time as the 4K. Hopefully the SSF kit is easy to install. I look forward to your upcoming videos and future updates as release time gets near. Oh, if you have the ears of AtGames, you mentioned that potential the special editions 4K might be announced very soon. If thats the case, if one is announced, I wonder if you could have the option of switching to it, even if you have to wait and pay the difference (I assume there is one), since the Addam's Family hasn't shipped yet?
Very welcome and I appreciate your feedback Dale! I'll know more about the SSF kit installation and steps once we get there. I think it's safe to say I'll have a written and video guide to help you along the way. Not sure exactly when that will happen, but hopefully before shipments begin. I'll mention your request to AtGames, I would guess there would be a lot of difficulty in doing what you propose but doesn't at all hurt to ask.
My only fear is having to take the playfield out.
Thanks for the video, makes me a little more excited about the 4k! One thing that has been bugging me: Is audio latency still as bad as with the Pinball HD? In the video it seems that it's way over 100ms (listen to the delay between solenoids or button presses and the corresponding sound effect) :/ Anything
I've listened more carefully to what you're saying while playing it, my hearing is not the best, I'll be honest. But I'm not seeing a noticeable audio delay while playing, but it can be that I'm just less sensitive to it. When the actual production machine arrives, I'll take a closer look into this through my video editing software where I can perform a closer analysis by slowing down the audio+video. The machine shown here isn't the final version, just more recent than the early evt unit that we discussed. I appreciate your comment and Happy New Year!
@@WagnersTechTalk Hey! Thanks for the reply! I must admit that I'm overly sensitive to that as a computer sound/music person. Synchronicity for a keyboarder requires
Thank you for another detailed video.
Very welcome, thank you for watching it!
Wagner,
Man I had such a huge comment I was writing and I just lost all of it! UGGG! CliffsNotes time.
- These in-depth continued looks at the 4KP are brilliant by you and AtGames!
- Even with it's flaws, I'm glad AtGames is innovating with things like the SSF Kit. The strive to enhance products, though risky, is part of making them better. Having said that, I'm also glad they didn't include it as part of the standard 4KP package. The price would've shot up and all for something that may never completely iron out the kinks.
- That's why I'm SO HAPPY that AtGames was completely transparent about the new expectations of the SSF Kit, that it may always have some issues (though I wish it could've been revealed before pre-orders went live). AtGames garnered a lot of respect from me by revealing the unfortunate news, as though things like this can effect sales, honesty is more important and powerful and brings real rewards like true customer trust and loyalty.
- Now that the SSF Kit issues have been revealed, I do hope AtGames will go the extra mile and do pre-order customers right. I hope they'll allow those aren't happy with this new information and understanding, to be able to cancel their pre-order and get their their $50 "non-refundable" deposit back. It's the right thing to do.
- Happy that my existing Joystick control panel will work on the 4KP (the site suggested it would, but nice to see it in action). I just hope I'll be able to keep the exciters disconnected as I do currently on my HD AtGames Legends Pinball.
Can't wait for your upcoming Addams Family demo!
vgv
Thanks again Wagner. I would love to see if the ssf kit will work in otg.
I have that happen more times than I can count, so sorry about that. I usually give up after that happens, kudos to you for seeing it through!
Thank you, I wanted to get a first look video out on SSF as it's something that I couldn't really check out at the expo. I knew it was there, I could hold my ear next to the cabinet and hear it. I could put my hand on the side and feel the audio, but no way I could make sense out of it with all the other noise lol.
AtGames is definitely making bold moves. I don't want to sound like I'm "hyping" it but I will say this: There is a big difference between not having SSF and having it. That said, to your point that's why I reached out to AtGames for their statement and was also impressed by their honest response. It says a lot about the company and why I really enjoy covering their products. I can trust them to do the right thing.
That leads me to your additional point. I was going to ask your question tomorrow (Monday), but they proactively asked me to let you know: They will honor preorder cancellation of the SSF kit for any orders made by Nov 5 and to contact them directly for any such requests. Again, they are doing the right thing. I'm sure a more official statement will be forthcoming from AtGames.
I did connect the exciters on the ACP for testing, haven't tried it without but can't think of any reason it wouldn't work the same. Something I suppose I should also try at some point.
I will be keeping an eye on TAF and keep everyone informed once I know more. There will be some quiet time later this month from me as we'll be doing a family vacation in your neck of the woods (I assume) - Vegas.
Wagner,
Such an amazing move by AtGames regarding the refunds for the SSF Kit preorders. If you can let them know, THANK YOU from me! AtGames, BRAVO!
vgv
I will let them know!
Great video! Do the front exciters under the control panel still have that annoying buzzing like the original Legends Pinball? or has that been resolved?
The new machine has more screws that are installed than with the HD. However, the control panel I installed was the older model (very early version that didn't have the pre-drilled holes in the ACP). However, with the stock panel nor the Arcade Control Panel, I didn't experience the same vibration as I did with the original ALP HD. I can't say it's been resolved, but it's not something I personally had an issue with. Perhaps they lowered the voltage output, I can't say exactly. The "buzzing" was indeed an issue with the original panel, I'm not seeing it here. Then again, I do tend to tweak things and it could be I set the haptics much lower.
I'm seeing a video saying that AtGames will install the SSF for $100 on L4K pre-orders? Have you heard anything about this? Thanks for the info and videos as usual!
Very welcome and thank you for watching! Yes, heard about the SSF installation yesterday. I think it's a great move as several replied to a recent poll in the community tab that they would prefer that AtGames assembles the kits prior to shipment. I'm fine either way, in fact I'd rather install it myself so I can make a how-to video so we'll all know what is involved. I have no idea how easy or difficult it will be.
One other note, if the ssf supports otg ssf or is it dedicated? Would be great to crack it open to see parts used and how it's hooked to board, or an amp. $350 is a bit for 5 speakers ($17 haptics)
SSF over OTG, last I heard, was coming yes.
Wagner thank you for the content once again. Any word on when we will get some more zen gameplay on this machine ?
I'm sure AtGames + Zen will announce when ready and fairly sure several will be available before the 4KP ships.
Great video. It was helpful and informative. I have two follow-up questions. 1. With the arcade control panel, will there be games on the ALP4K to play with the control panel. Outside of OTG, CoinOps, BYOG, and ArcadeNet, what games are built-in and purchasable that can utilize the joystick, trackball, and buttons? 2. With the other branded collector's editions being announced soon, can you switch a pre-order for the Addam's Family table to a different skin (if announced and available for sale before arrival of the Addam's family branded table). In other words, can I take my deposit and money from the preorder of the standard cab and transfer it to one of the new collector's edition skinned cabs? Thanks!
I'm not sure what the plans are from AtGames as far as arcade/console game packs on the 4KP. In APL (Arcade Play Link) mode (pressing the channel button) you can assign which display to show the game (i.e. backglass, playfield, etc.). Everything on this machine, currently, is pinball related. However, there are several arcade packs available on ALP HD that I suspect you'll also be able to play on the 4KP. You also have OTG for playing pretty much anything you can imagine. One of the reasons for installing the ACP, besides easier navigation, is to have it ready to try out arcade/console packs when they become available, OTG and to make sure everything works before others get their machines.
I don't think you can change the machine skin after an order is placed, but I have asked the question.
awesome thanks for sharing!!!
Is The Addams Family the only real table on the machine?
So after your experience with the SSF kit, what's your overall opinion of it? Does it really make a big difference in immersion? Worth the cost?
Yes, I personally notice a big difference without the SSF kit. The deeper bass, the sound of the ball rolling on the table, etc. add to the immersion. I tested with SSF, then without and immediately noticed the difference. I avoid pricing discussions, they are subjective.
Mr. Wagner any word on when we will be getting some new 4K ZEN or Goitlieb pinball gameplay. It’s getting closer to release date and still nothing. ATgames really needs to be more forthcoming.
From my standpoint, once I have a build that shows more I will. However, AtGames currently is QA'ing a build and I'll have to wait until that process is completed and shared with me.
How long is the topper? I do not think anyone has mentioned that.
I added a little more info here (see Question #1): wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4k/#Q_A
@@WagnersTechTalk Thank you so much
Good video! 2 questions
1. What is the point of the exciters under the control panel if the flippers use the solenoids? So they serve any other purposes?
2. Are you going to release a video of using the SSF kit in OTG?
Thank you, a few answers:
1) Solenoids can be turned on/off. The exciters do provide additional haptics as well, just more options for us.
2) Likely so, more to figure out and didn't want to hold up showing the basics of SSF for that as each application will require further investigation/experimentation.
Can you please inform us all if the solenoids and ssf kit will work through otg mode???????????????????????
My understanding is that yes they will and will be something I'll be able to test in an upcoming build. I'll cover that when we get to the SSF *installation* video.
@WagnersTechTalk thank you I really appreciate it
Any new news on those CEP announcements?
Not yet, but a "maybe" sometime this week depending on how things go.
Ugh! I’m totally out off by the on table animations, can they be turned off? (Eg the bird which flew in on bubble bobble)
Does the SSF kit use amps and sound card ?
Can't answer that yet, I don't have the SSF kit in-hand at the present time (aside from the kit that was pre-installed, I mean the kit I'll be using to demonstrate the installation). I do have something else in-hand here of importance, but we'll talk about that later. 😉
Thank you for the content. With the SSF kit causing the table to tilt if the volume is to loud. Do you really notice a huge difference in sound without the SSF kit
Yes, I personally notice a big difference without the SSF kit. The deeper bass, the sound of the ball rolling on the table, etc. add to the immersion. I tested with SSF, then without and immediately noticed the difference.
This was a great video for me because I bought the arcade control panel in advance of getting my AtGames Legend 4K pinball game (in a few months) and I also pre-ordered the SSF kit, and I didn't really know what to expect from either option. So your video was very informative. Thanks! I am curious how the arcade games play on the pinball game with the new control panel. Can you choose to view vertical arcade games on the pinball playfield screen? Or are you playing them on the back glass screen? This will be my first AtGames device, and my only experiences for pinball simulation have been on a Playstation console, Apple tablet and on a Steam handheld device. So I am looking forward to getting my new Addams Family game, but I am also looking forward to seeing the other upcoming Zen Studio Games. Will us Addams Family pinballers be able to purchase the other Zen Studios games for our AtGames 4K table? I did pay for the 1 year subscription for games, but I suspect that this just includes access to the less-than-stellar, in-house and Gottlieb games.
Very welcome Dean, happy to hear the video was helpful to you! I also want to say "Welcome aboard!" My first exposure to AtGames products was with the Legends Pinball HD, about two years ago. Since then, I've created a number of videos and written guides. You may find the evt series videos helpful also (if you haven't seen them): wagnerstechtalk.com/guides/#AtGames_Legends_4K_Series
I see in APL Mode (Arcade Play Link) you can assign which display the game plays on (playfield, backglass, etc.) At present, there aren't any arcade game packs pre-installed so it's not something I can fully test at this time without using OTG. Yes, you will be able to purchase/download additional Zen Studio tables and play them directly on the 4KP. I suspect there will be many available at launch.
@@WagnersTechTalk Great information. Thanks for the quick reply. I had already gone through your EVT videos, and they helped me decide to buy the game. Plus I have been watching your short videos, showing various games. I appreciate your detailed content and documentation.
Arcade1up flippers rest around 35 inches. The front of the machine is like 36 1/2 or 37 with lock down bar close to 37.
I hoped the legends 4k p would have had the same playing height
Since these are being built to order, wondering why we have to install the SSF kit 🤷♂️ I’m not very handy 😏
They go through production runs of each cabinet design based on qty, they aren't actually built-to-order. As soon as I receive my cabinet and SSF Kit, I'll demonstrate what's involved and create a written guide to make it even easier. The one shown here is a loaner that already had the SSF kit pre-installed.
@@WagnersTechTalk Looks like this SSF kit installation issue was solved. Got an email to have it pre-installed for $50. Extends delivery by 2-4 weeks. I can live with that 😉
What all comes in the SSF Kit?
I don't have a full list of bill of materials, can't accurately answer at this time. I do know 4 exciters and one subwoofer.
@@WagnersTechTalk Totally understand. Thanks for the response Jon.
I am sure it’s possible to have custom legs made I would think to bring it up just a tad.
The holes are pretty standard, but custom legs is not something I know anything about.
Can you turn the SSF down, or off in OTG? Same question for solenoids, can you adjust the sensitivity in OTG?
I'll have more details on OTG+SSF when I can, some features aren't yet available to me to answer.
@@WagnersTechTalk Thanks for all that you do!
Do you think the buy stuff arcade 2.0 backglass mod will have compatibility with the new 4k legends pinball?
That will be up to BSA.
Unlikely, from the original assembly video, it looked like both panels in the backbox are LVDS, versus the eDP used for the original back glass.
Both the BSA and stock ALP 4K backglass are 24" panels. It's just the smaller 8" DMD in the ALP 4K vs the 12" or 15" depending on the BSA box style you pick. If you really need a larger DMD, it would be much less expensive to mod in a larger DMD and pray that the Geekworm LVDS to HDMI convertor works so you can keep the stock DMD functionality.
If I'm happy with the machine I'll probably upgrade with these bits in 6 months time. Too much $ at once otherwise
The COIN DOOR not being CENTERED seems like an obvious design aesthetic flaw. AtGames should come clean with WHY they can't center that Coin Door...otherwise the detractors will not stop dishing the entire machine because of that "flaw".
See here: wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4k/#Latest_Updates
I was hoping you could show how the SSF kit is assembled for us newbies Jon. Thanks for this glimpse of what’s to come!!!
my thoughts also, you know he will.. I hope we do not have to cut out hole for that bass... at least hope its pre marked..
@@MrSteveonbroadwaythere’s a hole already set in the machines (at least based off all information given thus far)
This machine came from the show with everything pre-installed, including the SSF. I want to show the actual kit as it arrives and this isn't my machine to keep but rather a loaner. I plan to show the full installation with the full kit as we would receive it from AtGames.
@MrSteveonbroadway The holes and bass speaker cover are already added for you. Installation should be fairly easy without drilling, but we'll verify that in a later video.
Whats the cost of the ssf kit?
Will the pinball fix update be applied to the older machines or is it an exclusive for the 4ks?
Pinball FX will only be available on the Legends Pinball 4K products, not the ALP HD. The hardware on the ALP HD isn't capable of playing them natively on the machine. Although, you can always use OTG with a connected PC. More on that here: wagnerstechtalk.com/alpfx
Thanks for all the hard work putting the sound together for this video! I am really impressed at how much effort AtGames put into the sound! Also, I'm impressed that the "pack in" tables look and sound actually really, really good and the 4k monitor is premium quality. Really, the only ding is the cabinet color.
Love your content. Ever time I see SSF I keep thinking about super street fighter
Thank you so much!
I've got a super ignorant question. I don't own, and haven't ever played the original Legends Pinball. I see a lot of comments out there about something called "coinOpsX?" going away? Will the 4K Pinball be able to play vertical arcade games using the BYOG/Add-on feature that you described in this video? ua-cam.com/video/iHGMORDxC9M/v-deo.html
Not an ignorant question, it's a tough one to answer at this point. CoinOpsX is a 3rd-party application that is community developed. As a result, we'll have to wait and see what the community creates to take advantage of the faster processor and other features of the machine.
As a point of reference, how does the SSF kit feel in comparison to Buy Stuff Arcade's haptics kit?
They aren't directly comparable. It's hard to explain audio, but the BSA Haptics kit sounds very good compared to the stock audio. However, the SSF kit provides multiple channels of audio and each independent of the other allowing sound to travel across the playfield. To accomplish this, the tables themselves have to be coded to support what speaker(s) receive the audio and at what intensity. Two very different experiences.
Interesting that atgames said there was no perfect solution to haptics setting off accelerometer. When i installed a 2 haptic/1 shaker puck to amp and dedicated 24V psu in alp hd, i tested the speakers mounted to base and side cabinet as theyre doing. No go, was tripping accelerometer. I fixed it by mounting the haptics on blocks, then using foam as sound vibration blockers at base mount. The setup is an elevated speaker system not contact with cabinet at all, allowing me to run accelerometer now at max with high volume and bass. Look like ill be doing the same with their new model
Nice tip, thank you for sharing!
@WagnersTechTalk I can send imgur pics if interested of the setup. I ended up biting today and got the Mars table with ssf installed. I may have spent far more than what I could've pieced together but I'll take a shot and crack it open on drop date to see how it's done. One note is ssf kit is only 90 day warranty, but its 1 year IF atgames installs it.
I know you were manually trying to demonstrate the surround effects in the segment at 8:10, but I'm a bit confused. As I understand it, the only audio that should "travel" and come from the surround speakers should be the physical/mechanical sounds of the table (like the rolling ball, the flippers, the poppers and targets, etc.), but the music and callouts should only be coming from the front speakers and the subwoofer.
Is that the case? It kind of sounded like the music was traveling with the ball, but that might just be a side effect of your attempt at simulating the experience.
Music comes from the two stereo speakers on the backbox. Just imagine the ball rolling sounds and target sounds are coming from various directional speakers in the 4 corners + the bass shaker. It was the best way I could come up with. The only true way is for you to experience it is in-person. This wasn't a perfect example, as you also hear the music move from the left-right channel speakers which is not the case in front of the machine. No way for me to separate the music and other sounds, if that makes sense :)
@@WagnersTechTalkPerfect! Thanks again for a great video and a detailed response!
Question for you: The Adams Family preview had scores superimposed on the table itself - do you know if that will be an option to turn on/off and will that be a feature of other pinball tables? I can imagine some people like it and others will find it distracting.
From what I understand, there will be settings to enable/disable those effects.
I was hoping maybe you were able to catch a glimpse of how the SSF kit was wired into the cabinet, whether it wires directly into the mainboard (or some other stock board that is apart of the stock cabinet, or if the SSF kit itself comes with something ACTUALLY more than just the 4 exciters and sub. I ask because I already had an SSF installed on my HD, which I would just take out an use, since I like my Dayton HDN8s WAY more than the DAEX58FPs that it appears they are using on their kit. I had tried those on my ALP and they weren't powerful enough for me. AtGames for some reason simply does not want to let me know if the kit is just the speakers, or if it will come with a special PCB and/or 7.1 sound card. They keep giving me EVERY excuse in the book as to why they cant help answer that at the moment. The answer is literally the difference between me buying the SSF kit or not. Having to buy it feels like a waste a money as is, even if it comes with other items i would need besides just the speakers. If it was speakers only, it would be 100% COMPLETE waste of money, lol.
Let me know what you saw internally.... Even if you aren't 100% sure, your best educated guess will suffice... just anything, please! No more "AtGames" type answers 🤣
Please see towards the end of this video, you'll see some shots of the inside of the cabinet. I don't know the BOM for the SSF kit, until I do I can't determine what is in the kit and what comes pre-installed.
@@WagnersTechTalk dang, yea unfortunately, the video clip didn't happen to show where the Dayton exciters were wired to. Lol, it actually doesn't even matter anymore to be honest, as I just paid for my pre-order of AFM CED and the SSF Kit + Preinstallation. Didn't want to take the chance of having to pay full price later on if I find its more than just the speakers. Thanks anyways though... Still hope you are able to obtain a more in depth walkthrough of one sooner than later.
Gotcha, yeah hoping to show the installation of the kit from beginning-end. Not sure how many people are going to need it, looks like most took AtGames up on the pre-installation deal. However, I'll create it anyway (once available) as I'm sure it will be helpful to someone. May also be a good reference for those who had it pre-installed and want to see what all they missed out on Lol.
Any updates on the legends 4kp.
I am starting to get worried with this radio silence from ATgames.
No 4K Gotlieb or Zen table gameplay full speed yet.
I am a wave 1 pre order.
Starting to get worried it’s not going to be ready or just flat out won’t be able to run the games.
They should just let us install the operating system on our own PC.
I understand your concern. I'll have updates starting later this week. You're going to be seeing a lot more 4KP coverage coming from me. I've pretty much dedicated the rest of this month and Feb. to it. Stay tuned!
Thank you for the response. I know you have no control on dates. I’d you could give them feedback though. They are really cutting it close. We pre ordered months ago and we still don’t know what comes in the ssf kit and we still don’t even know if this thing will run the games in 4K.
I will keep my eyes peeled for your videos but they need to be more forthcoming with information. Anyways keep up the amazing work and content. Thank you for your time ! Have a nice day
I appreciate you, I was playing The Addams Family tonight and played the best game I ever have (PC or otherwise), 109,195,420 and this wasn't on a PC. It's not an easy game and my score is likely nothing compared to others. But for me, I was excited... hint hint, wink wink.
Can you get the arcade board preinstalled like the SSF? If not, I hope they add this as an optional choice in the future.
Not at this time, hopefully that will change later on down the road.
Can we please get an update on alu 4k and alua? Your site says they are supposed to be up for preorder now and we have heard nothing.
AtGames will let us know when they're ready to announce the ALU 4k details. I'm sure the focus, at the moment, is getting the Legends Pinball 4K in the hands of those that pre-ordered. Once I know more, I definitely will share it.
Well, it only seems fair to ask for a follow up when they don't follow through.
Sure, we'll know more but it will likely be early in 2024, if I were to guess. I'd love for us to know more before the end of the year, but it's not up to me.
Hi John, another great review, can´t wait for my ALP 4K - thank you so much for the hard work you put in. One follow up question: Are we still going to need the Video Input Backglass Switchboard in order to use custom backglas art, etc. ? Cheers
Very welcome and thank you for watching! No, the VIBS is integrated into the main board (PCB) on the 4KP. The hardware tour video goes into this a bit more by showing all 3 HDMI inputs, if interested: wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4kevt/#Part_1_Hardware_Tour
@@WagnersTechTalk Cool thanks John, I only hope I can make the ALP work with 220 V and not having a too hard time to implement the SSF Kit - but thanks to you I am confident:-) Cheers and keep up the good work
Hey John great work. Have you tried otg? Does the ssf kit work well with otg? Is there any additional setup required for that?
Thank you! I plan to show SSF+OTG at a later time, more research and testing is needed. In this video, I wanted to demonstrate what I couldn't at Pinball Expo due to the background noise at the show. I'll continue to fill in the gaps, where I can.
Thanks for the demo. Do you know what utility the arcade panel will have when the axe CoinOps?
CoinOpsX is a 3rd party application, once the 4KP's get into the hands of community developers, we'll find out. AtGames had also released several arcade/console packs for the ALP HD that will most likely come to the 4KP as well. Ease of navigation and use over OTG was my main reason for installing the ACP.
😊let’s hope you are able to release some news soon. Not sure why ATgames is doing this to it’s customers. So close to release date and zero info. I know I am beating a dead horse but my patience is like a 2 year olds at this point lol😂
Working hard to have something to show this week here.
ATgames kills me. They post about the topper and not gameplay lol
The Addams Family Game Play video is uploading now. Should have it public in 1-2 hours.
Wagner do you own a Arcade1up pinball machine? And if so is the legends 4kp the same playing height ? Thank you
I don't own an A1UP pinball machine, but you can find the dimensions of the 4Kp here to compare:wagnerstechtalk.com/alp4kevt/#Cabinet_Comparison_HD_vs_4KP
Just went on Arcade1up website says there flippers rest at 35 inches…..so is it safe to say they would be the same since legends 4k p measurement says 35 inches in the front ?
Also I have the puck exciters the large ones. Will I be able to swap those and my bass shaker into the ssf kit ?
Any word on when we will get more zen tables gameplay please ATgames ?
Is the Adam's family table still leggy or did they fix it?
We'll investigate that in a separate video. What was shown here was the build from the show a few weeks ago.
Nope
@MidwestVillain_Z I'm not even excited for it.
@@WagnersTechTalkDo you think the monitors in the 4kp are going into power saving mode and turning off game mode? Lots of monitors default back to game mode off after powering down. Which would increase the flipper lag.