I have been saying the same thing on my channel to people who want it all now and then point to Claremont as the gold standard. Be patient, Hickman is playing the long game and when it happens the climax is going to be amazing. The stakes for the X-Men will stay like this for a while, but will pick up once the 5 are threatened. We are definitely on the same page with this one. Great video man.
Hickman pretty much made us ask the question that is existential crisis the x-men have to face Can they keep going the same pace they are have been or can they find peace in themselves And his answer is currently No on both front Because they always lose by either by human hatred or their own selfish nature
As an old Ride-or die X-men fan, I love what Hickman's doing with the X-Men. I love the fact that he intertwined what that was both old and new that he respects the history. I like what they did with Moria making her into a mutant and I like the fact that all the mutants are getting together both bad and good because they're realizing, hey we got to work together I don't know how long this is going to last, but I like it. Shoot, I might just go back and look at Hickman’s old Fantastic Four stuff. That being said, I don't like the fact that my X- men are coming off as assholes. But as I stated before the X-Men have always been an allegory for race relations in America among other things, and Hickman is mirroring what's going on with black americans with the feeling. Hey we tried to be cool and you guys aren't meeting us halfway so this is what we're going to do. personally I'm of the professor old Professor X side that we got to be the better people but that being said I like the way they're doing it, and I hope that it’s going to work out in the end.
You've hit why I've enjoyed such a drastic change... Hickman's run is reminding of Clairmont's run. I do hope Hickman picks up on some of the old threads, even some subplots that were introduced only to be dropped; such as Neo claiming Kitty Pryde is one of them.... esp waiting for them to bring her back
The old vets from WWII, they were old mutants, speedster= SuperSabre, strongman= Stonewall, leader was Crimson Commando (think his power was agility & stamina?)
Big fan of the run so far and have scooped up every issue of DoX. I can definitely agree some of the series coming up in wave 2 have authors I'm not normally interested in but I'll check it out and make an informed opinion once I read those issues. I agree that I wish the tone of all the series out right now would follow that of HoX/PoX but there's just so many different kinds of X-Men fans marvel wants to appease and so they had to have Hickman and themselves pick from the staff in house for better or worse to keep the story chugging. At the end of the day I just grab what I like and that's the story for me 😁
I'm mixed on it, but I'm definitely in it for the long haul, at least the Hickman and Percey books anyway. On the one hand, I love it for the reasons you described. It has deep lore, it respects continuity, it isn't afraid to get dense with some of the concepts its playing with, and it isn't afraid to use the past as a foundation to do some very different things. On the other hand, the X-Men, whether they are self-aware of this or not, have basically become a supremacist death cult that are clearly pursuing goals of soft power and influence that will force them into conflict with the rest of the Marvel Universe. I don't think most of theit intentions are bad ones, and I sympathize with their situation, but they're definitely making some shady moral compromises for what they perceive to be "the greater good." I don't like seekng the X-Men this way, but it's interesting, and that's ultimately all I ask from storytellers, to be interesting and entertaining in such a way that I don't forget or stop caring about it as soon as I'm done with with it. It may not be the way I would prefer to see these heroes, and I would agree that some characters are definitely being written somewhat out of character, but I'm rolling with it because the story has justified itself by explaining why the perspectives of characters have changed the way they have. They've either explained it or we're going to get that explaination down the road. The one thing i don't like is the implication that Cyclops and Wolverine might not only be sharing Jean, but might be involved with each other. There's a difference between character changes rationalized within the context of the plot and continuity and character changes that just contradict continuity for the sake of change. So far, this feels like the latter until we actually get some straight answers. That's simply not what those two are, nor has that ever been a dynamic to their relationship. At the end of the day, this whole status quo is not going to be permanent because it was set up from the beginning as a dystopia, a utopia in name only, and almost every issue of X-Men is foreshadowing that it's an unsustainable house of cards. If characters and their status quo feels off, that's because you're supposed to feel that way. The bottom is going to fall out, and whether it's sooner or later, the X-Men are going to have to eventually come to terms with the consequences of their questionable choices in the name of survival and see the error of some of their ways as their best laid plans inevitably come crashing down around them. Hickman has said he doesn't like a lot of what has been done with the X-Men since Grant Morrison and that the outcome of his run will be a kind of course correction. I think that instead of ignoring continuity, he is at least starting our just being more honest and self-aware about what the X-Men have been flirting with out of desperation for the last decade or so to one extent or another: seperatism, militant radicalism, tribalism and supremacy. I think he is portraying them in such a way so that he can deconstruct that idea and rebuild them into something closer to what they ought to be further down the line or when he wraps up his story, and like he did with the Avengers, he made them fall before they rose to new heights and saved the day. That journey and whether or not he is doing something even remotely along those lines is what I'm on board to see. The X-Men may not be the way i want them to be right, but the X-Men haven't been this interesting and thought-provoking since Rick Remender's Uncanny X-Force and Uncanny Uncanny Avengers, so regardless of my reservations, I'm all in.
I have wanted the X-Men to have a shake up, but most of the characters feel wrong and out of place. Almost all of them are out of character. You get the shake up, but without any of the development involved. One of my favorite runs of the X-Men is actually Wolverine and the X-Men. You had a wonderful focus on the old generation of mutants actively teaching the next generation. Getting to see the school be an actual school. Plus, you got to see Logan and Ororo develop a beautiful relationship. If felt real and the build up of it from over the decades felt like a natural progression of the characters. Not like when they forced Storm and Black Panther together. They had to make up their backstory and the two never felt like the loved each other. Ororo actually helped Logan get over Jean and be happy. Now, all of that development is out the window, there is no school, and the mutants have turned into what they feared and fought against. I am hoping the other shoe drops soon, because what is happening right now does not feel like the X-Men. Yeah, the stories are crazy and interconnected, but the souls of the characters are all gone and that is something I just cannot stand.
I'm loving Hickman's take on the X-Men. It's not only because the dialogue is excellent, the character voices are spot on and the respect for the characters is clear, it's also how he's addressing the constant struggle mutants have faced and the steps their taking to bring that to an end. A new era for mutantkind. Loved Powers of X and House of X and I've been thoroughly enjoying Dawn of X.
Hickman is my favorite writer. I really love his Avengers run and after he left I felt like it never had that same magic again. I love the high concepts he introduces and the lore he builds upon. The graphics could annoy people but I find them really cool and nice to look at while also giving you all this side information that expands the story for things he doesn't have time to tell. I like how the smallest detail or tid bit can become a major plot. You never know whats going to happen and that keeps things interesting and the conversation going. I get that people hate where the X-Men are right now but im absolutely amazed that they have evolved into where they're at. I started reading comics in 2000 and while I enjoyed mutants and the X-Men cartoons, some of the time displaced bendis run.. I never got extreamly excited for it. Now I am! It's new and different but do we really want the same stories over and over again? I do agree though some of the other creators are letting me down. I wish there was someone else with hickman's mindset and story telling at marvel he could work off of. None of the books have felt like "Oh ok so when hickman leaves this writer can take over." I feel like once hickman leaves this concept and story will all be reset to the more classic X-Men and for me, that'll be a step backwards
Personally I think Hickman decided to make the x men new and different and I like that. Personally there better now then they were after avengers vs x men.
I dropped Marauders, Excalibur, Fallen Angels and the non-Hickman issues of New Mutants after issues 6. But I'm still on for the ride with X-Men and X-Force.
iam just happy its not another Mutants are nearly on the brink of being wiped out again. Plus hoping to see some of the resurected characters might surive this.
Status quo? The mutants have been treated like they're sub-human monsters for 50 years, it's about damn time they recognize and verbalize publically that they're the superior organisms. You're meant to feel uneasy about this as a human but to say you'd prefer them to be subjugated to mass murder or political internment vindicates Magneto's point of view. The only thing the pacifism of Xavier has guaranteed is the extinction of mutants altogether. Peaceful coexistence isn't feasible and they're far more pragmatic and responsible with their immense power. We, on the other hand, poison the earth, kill or imprison the mutants and our own kind en masse, and grievously mishandle the greatest power we've achieved so far. Again, it's about time the mutants took the wheel.
@@RecluseBootsy Yeah, with Apocalypse and Sinister being part of those who take that wheel? Those two are genocidal monsters on their best day. And don't be foolish, just reading what the mutants are saying shows that they're not even slightly more enlightened than humanity. They want to think they are, but they're not. They largely feel like so many smug human jerks.
As an X-Men fan of old-old...I absolutely LOVE Hickman's run so far for the same reasons you do. He's taking a huge risk pushing the X-status quo beyond the tried and true and...stale. And for the first time in years (a decade plus) the entire line feels very cohesive and purposeful and Grand, with depth and consequence. That said...I'm not buying all the titles (mainly because of budget.)
I personally dig what Hickman has done and is doing ... People be bitchin that they are acting out of character ... Of course they are ... Krokoa is doing something to them ...Mind control ... I haven't got it all figured out ... The how's and why's ... But Krokoa is influencing them somehow ... The Scott Logan Emma Jean thing ? Krokoa ... Xavier ? Krokoa ... Maybe the reason they all be acting like super villians ... Maybe they are just sick and freakin tired of being crapped on by humanity ... Scott said it best in HoX # 1 ... I'm super excited to see where the Mutants go from here ... This whole Hickman status quo shift was much NEEDED after years of neglect by Marvel ... Marvel should just hand over the keys to Hickman Cates and maybe Ewing ... And let them dictate what is and was and what will forever be in the Marvel Universe ...
I actually stopped reading X-men and X-Force last month. House of X and Powers of X was alright and I wanted to see where it was going but no I'm done.
I think it's pretty simple and it's not the pretentious high concept some people think it is: he is going to change things in the third act and quite likely give Marvel the chance to reboot them. That's all well and good, but it doesn't justify an action-based franchise being so dull. And that is my biggest criticism of Hickman's X-Men: it's boring. It lacks action and it lacks inner conflict.
i just wish i could get a conclusion to many of the plot threads left open from uncanny xmen 600 still :( like beasts trial and fallout from all that, all the time traveling stuff from that new mutant..... forgot her name now)
I'm in the middle. I love it as an original idea and breath of fresh air, how ever I hate that the xmen aren't "sworn to protect a world that fears and hates them" anymore. Thats not xmen --- from an old school claremont die hard--- but it is really good.
Loved house of x powers of x. loved the art. loved the writing. loved the sense of long planning. Love the fact that it was completely different and destroyed the status quo. i agree about taking superhero comics seriously and one thing i hate about modern comics is writers who do not respect the superhero comics they are writing. and yes it all this will end badly... and that's what we want.
I LOVE the immortality machine. Being a Posthumanist myself and a Cryonicist I truly want to live forever. But, I just love the complexity of Hickman's writing. A lot.
My only personal issue is that plot armor surrounding every character from death now. Seeing Kitty drown literally meant fuck all to me and any death in the future will have zero effect. Remember reading Death of Wolverine and "saying no fucking way, how?!" Yeah, never again.
Whether one love or hates it, before Hickman, has anyone really cared about the X-Men in five years? I don’t think so. It’s all just started. We don’t know where this is going. Off we go.
I'd say too many cooks. Even Percy is losing me now. The last few issues of X-Force haven't been up to snuff and Wolverine is a bit of a mess. I quit Marauders, Excalibur, New Mutants and Fallen Angels pretty early on, but I am onboard with X-Men as long as Hickman's writing.
Imagine Hickman creating a legion of superheroes line of books at dc with good writers like Dan Jurgens, Peter J Tomasi, Robert Venditti, and Joshua Williamson. All the writers I listed like the legion and Superman as much as any other. And maybe a geoff Johns monthly comic along with that.
Hickman could do so much cool stuff at DC. I think he would be great with Legion of Superheroes, Superman, Green Lantern, Justice League and Aquaman, maybe Question because I'd love to see a conspiracy theory angle to the character again, and Hickman could come up with some absolutely wild conspiracy plots.
Tyler Worsham yeah I know. I want Hickman to be at dc but at the same time idc. He can stay at marvel or whatever. DC has just as good writers but they aren’t given as much power as someone like bendis. I believe James tynion is going to evolve into one of the greats on the level of Geoff Johns. He’s in his 30s now and has lost of potential.
So I was never a big X-men fan growing up, I liked wolverine, nightcrawler,magento. But that was really about it, I read hickmans fantastic four(they are my favorite marvel characters) and I loved it. So I decided to check out hox and pox and I thought they were amazing, so I started reading other runs of the X-men(grant Morrison’s run,and joss whedons run) I love them now, cyclops is an amazing character and I’m sad I never saw that when I was younger.
I recently decided to get into reading comics and decided to start with this series. I've been a long time marvel fan all my life and when i saw they were doing a new series i snagged all 12 of the powers and house of x issues. I enjoyed them for the most part. To try and stay on a linear path I subscribed to the Xmen books and I'm 9 issues in and i'm about to cancel. I think it's a bit ridiculous you have to get every single piece of X related books to understand whats going on, they skip out on too much story in between each Xmen issue.
In the upcoming stories, Empyre Xmen and X of Swords, it seems like Hickman is pairing people up on purpose. You mentioned the writers that are taking things seriously vs. some that, perhaps, are not. Hickman with Howard Percy with Duggan Is it possible that the pairings are done because he sees this problem as well?
As an X-Men fan for the past 42 years (wow, I' old) I actually like Hickman's run thus far. I do think that he has to eventually contend with the fact that The Marauders are trafficking in Drugs and Humans. The contention that the X-Men are now considered villains doesn't really bother me. Mutants have been thrown in a giant box and segregated and demonized throughout the History of Marvel Comics - Mutant Lives Matter.
@@jaimec1596 We are all entitled to our opinion, but you should know that I am a 49 year old Black Man whose parents marched with Dr. King. I have participated in marches for Human Rights from Anti-Apartheid in the late 80's, to Anti-Police Brutality in the early 90's, to Pro-Gay Marriage at the turn of the Century, including Black Lives Matter starting with the untimely murder of Trayvon Martin to the protests of the past few weeks. As a recent college grad, I created a MultiCultural History curriculum back in 1992 when it was still rather unheard of at the Secondary School level. A great deal of my sense of Social Justice not only was borne of my parents, but in the Comic Books I read as a child (I started reading X-Men back in 1977). I do not require your approval of my sense of humor. If you seriously became nonplussed by a harmless turn of phrase that does absolutely nothing to harm anyone, yet, in my opinion, neatly encapsulates the ongoing theme of X-Men Comics to Real Life events - I seriously suggest that you work harder to develop your sense of humor and learn to read with comprehension instead of self-righteous indictment.
I'm a long time big fan of X-men and throughout its run, there are massive changes made to the characters that some people hate and other love as well. In case of Hickman, the divide is much more big as the story's direction looks like a 180 on the premise of the whole run. For me, X-men also represents evolution, and what the story-line's going through is a logical evolution (for me) after years of being victims and mistreated, by both within the story and writers as well. X-men just take the next very BIG step in their evolution this time. Its not all that awesome so far, the direction mostly feels exciting for me. There are titles that are delivering quality stories compared to recent years (X-men, X-Force), some up and downs (Marauders, New Mutants), middling (Excalibur) and a miss (Fallen Angels). The wave 2 titles are too new to have a proper feedback as of now, but I am not that optimistic on some of them; hopefully I'm wrong on that point. I think my main gripe is the Children of the Atom book, which is the only Dawn of X title I have not put in my pull list. There are awesome X-characters that have no official teams as of now such as Nightcrawler, Archangel, Multiple Man, Banshee, Warpath, so on and so forth, but they choose to do a book with all brand new characters what seems to be not really mutants. I'm not sure if that assumption is correct but so far the premise sucks. Hickman should just add an X-team that is straight forward hero team not only for mutants but also for humans to show the readers that X-men are still somewhat heroes and not just isolationists. I will put those characters I mentioned above on that team haha. Thanks for the great video!
My dad gave me my first comic book - the wolverine volume one issue one . it introduced me to comics . even if batman is my favorite hero now i still love wolverine and the x-men . but now ... this isn't how the x-men act . if hickman wanted to shake stuff up don't ruin the characters to do it .these aren't the x-men I know , where is my wolverine , the peaceful professor x ? where is the X-MEN ?
@CBPerch / Insightful, commentary. I have not read X-Men in ten yrs, or more. Several people have recommend I start reading Hickmans HC House of X/ Powers of X, and continue with the other X-titles through the Dawn of X TP’s. I’ve bought the Hickman HC, I’ll open it this week. Now, I wanted to ask if you’ve heard, as I have, of a little whisper that says Hickman’s X-Men is either being canceled, by end of 2020, or he’s leaving Marvels X-Men..? Let me know if you’ve heard of this through the grapevine. I can neither confirm nor refute this whisper...but, we’ll see...?
It’s such a weird run- because it’s like- alright! Hickman! But to get the full picture with the other books- you have to read these titles from people who are....not even close to Hickman- no disrespect to them but it’s jarring reading a Hickman XMen book then read a non Hickman X book right after- it seems like this whole XMen writing team did not work out behind the scenes after a certain amount of time and it sucks it happened this way
Back in 2008 I met Hickman and said to him that I'd love to see him on X-Men someday, well it happened, and I didn't even finish reading the HoX/PoX series' as I didn't care like what he was doing. Taking the joke of the X-Men die and come back all the time, and then making that a major plot point, that everyone now is basically how Magneto was on Asteroid M/Avalon isolated from the world, warning them not to challenge them, cutting the balls off of all the classic villains, from Magneto, Apocalypse, Krakoa(though Jason Aaron did that in his Wolverine and the X-Men comic first), and Sinister. The whole Phalanx stuff just made me lose interest in where things would go next, because either he goes for that endgame, or doesn't, and I don't like either answer. Also when you have Legion and Proteus, is really anything impossible? In a way I'm glad I tapped out, the cost per issue, the double shipping, all the tie-ins from too many low tier and mediocre creative teams, I'm better off saving my money.
I like the run and I can see why people think the X-men are not heroes right now, as Hichman pointed out by Fantastic Four. However, giving the X-men this attitude solves the mutant plot-hole problem, why do people love the Avengers but hate the X-men when there is no way to casually identify the mutant? Hichman's answer is, make the X-men egocentric jerks.
That's not a plothole . first , humans hate the hulk ; a fucking avenger and the thing ; a ff member ! And second , humans hate them because they will one day replace humans as the dominant species
i will say that HOX/POX was ground breaking and I loved each issue. It was time to breathe some new life in the X-men and completely turn everything we know about them on it's head. For awhile the X-books were stale and still recycling the same old threads from claremont ,except they weren't claremont and you can't outdo the original. My issue with X-men now is since dawn of X its too many books and too many subpar writers. I understand that Hickman probably needed to farm out stuff but either marvel made him choose certain people or he choose them and either way we the readers are suffering. Seriously, the writing sucks...the artwork in most cases is so-so and no one even cares what is going on and that crazy considering the hype after HOX/POX ended.....we were psyched to see what was ahead for the X-men now I'm about to pray they bring back Claremont and simonson and hell find lobdell because even his stuff is better than what I see in Marauders, excalibur, way of x, new mutants and anything else outside of X-men, x-force and wolverine and I say even those three have there moments of mediocracy. i know marvel isnt gonna listen but they should. the X-men titles are meant to be better and bolder and they were for decades so someone should be questioning what is going on cause it isn't selling. I see these titles living on shelves. As for me, I stopped. I literally just stopped all x-titles until I hear word Hickman is awake or those other bums have thrown in the towel and stopped writing the books.
I have a love-hate relationship with Hickman's X-Men run as on one hand I love it but on the other hand I hate it.. I can't really put into words my likes and dislikes of the run so far but so far the parts I dislike to me is outweighing what I like about it
I love Hickman's FF and Illuminati Avengers that led into Secret Wars. This was not so good. Wolverine having a beer with Gorgon? Prof X finally giving up on the dream. Maybe bring Byrne in and he can retcon it by making them Doombots? Just kidding.
Because it's the antithesis of what the X-Men comics should be as ridiculously death defying God elites live on their genetic apartheid island where child killers and mass murderers are forgiven because of their genetic code. And justified personal enmitys have been brushed aside so mutants can sing kumbayah and manipulate non-cooperative human governments. That covers a lot of it.
I think my biggest problem with Hickman's X-Men is how exclusionary it is. I grew up exclusively on DC, and that's what I read. With Marvel launching all these new X books, I wouldn't mind trying out X-Men, but I can't. For Marvel to charge $5/issue regular, and up to $8 for a #1 is ridiculous to me. Then to find out that the books go deep into X-Men lore, and to get the full scope of the story, people have told me I need to get 5 or more books, half of which are only "meh"? And on top of that, the characters are going to be in unfamiliar forms? Marvel, have you lost it?! I'm not working with a ton of money. X-Men is only 1 line. If anybody can let me know, if you can get by reading only the main X book, then I'll get a hold of House and Powers and I'll try it, but if not....
Hickman has said you do not need to read the other books to understand what is going on, but honestly, that is a load of shit. You need to read everything he is writing in order for the X-Men to even have a hope of what is going on.
@@TyranusRex721 Thanks for the info. That's what I thought. Yeah, not a good strategy. So if you want to read it it's go broke or pirate, really. I probably spend around $70 a month in comics right now, not much, I read 5 titles+ random finds, I'm not willing to drop another $30-60 for JUST X-Men.
@@superanimegamer01 I honestly trade wait at this point because it is cheaper. Though Marvel is also uping the price of their trades so it sucks for everyone.
I'm sorry, but those who think the X-Men are now the villains are kinda racist Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, both Jewish artists, created the mutants to testify to the cruelty and xenophobia that people inflict on Jews and other minorities Each X-Men run continued to develop this metaphor by exploiting it in different ways There, Hickman's mutants can no longer endure anything "No more" cries Charles Xavier as Scott, Jean, Kurt and the others were massacred at the end of the fourth issue of HoX because they wanted to save their species They wanted to coexist peacefully with humans for entire decades, they kept saving the world, and in return humans threw them in the face William Stryker, the Decimation, the Sentinels,... And when Genosha was genocided ? Only Kitty's father helped And when the Xavier Institute was transformed into a concentration camp during the Decimation ? Ah yes, it was humans who set up this concentration camp to "help the 198 remaining mutants" Not to mention the M-Pox And the atrocious alternative future from which Rachel comes In my opinion, the mutants should definitely have abandoned the humans, but even there they are still trying to help them by providing them with incredible medical assistance The.X-Men.Aren't.The.Villains.
I have been saying the same thing on my channel to people who want it all now and then point to Claremont as the gold standard. Be patient, Hickman is playing the long game and when it happens the climax is going to be amazing. The stakes for the X-Men will stay like this for a while, but will pick up once the 5 are threatened.
We are definitely on the same page with this one. Great video man.
Hickman pretty much made us ask the question that is existential crisis the x-men have to face
Can they keep going the same pace they are have been or can they find peace in themselves
And his answer is currently
No on both front
Because they always lose by either by human hatred or their own selfish nature
@@Adam-nz3ix Humans in Marvel Comics are Idiots plain and simple.
@@Adam-nz3ix That's the usual allegory, yes.
@@jturner2577 Mutants in Marvel Comics are also idiots, what's your point?
I haven’t heard anyone dislike this book. It has been universally acclaimed as far as I’ve seen.
Neither have I have. It's excellent.
I barely heard the first person to not be into the new X-men but he was honest that he’s never been a huge fan of th X-men.
Just some guy’s video on it and most of the comment section
You haven’t been looking beyond your echo chamber then.
As an old Ride-or die X-men fan, I love what Hickman's doing with the X-Men. I love the fact that he intertwined what that was both old and new that he respects the history. I like what they did with Moria making her into a mutant and I like the fact that all the mutants are getting together both bad and good because they're realizing, hey we got to work together I don't know how long this is going to last, but I like it. Shoot, I might just go back and look at Hickman’s old Fantastic Four stuff. That being said, I don't like the fact that my X- men are coming off as assholes. But as I stated before the X-Men have always been an allegory for race relations in America among other things, and Hickman is mirroring what's going on with black americans with the feeling. Hey we tried to be cool and you guys aren't meeting us halfway so this is what we're going to do. personally I'm of the professor old Professor X side that we got to be the better people but that being said I like the way they're doing it, and I hope that it’s going to work out in the end.
You've hit why I've enjoyed such a drastic change... Hickman's run is reminding of Clairmont's run. I do hope Hickman picks up on some of the old threads, even some subplots that were introduced only to be dropped; such as Neo claiming Kitty Pryde is one of them.... esp waiting for them to bring her back
The old vets from WWII, they were old mutants, speedster= SuperSabre, strongman= Stonewall, leader was Crimson Commando (think his power was agility & stamina?)
Or as Jay and Miles call them, the Murder Grandpas.
Big fan of the run so far and have scooped up every issue of DoX. I can definitely agree some of the series coming up in wave 2 have authors I'm not normally interested in but I'll check it out and make an informed opinion once I read those issues. I agree that I wish the tone of all the series out right now would follow that of HoX/PoX but there's just so many different kinds of X-Men fans marvel wants to appease and so they had to have Hickman and themselves pick from the staff in house for better or worse to keep the story chugging. At the end of the day I just grab what I like and that's the story for me 😁
I'm mixed on it, but I'm definitely in it for the long haul, at least the Hickman and Percey books anyway. On the one hand, I love it for the reasons you described. It has deep lore, it respects continuity, it isn't afraid to get dense with some of the concepts its playing with, and it isn't afraid to use the past as a foundation to do some very different things. On the other hand, the X-Men, whether they are self-aware of this or not, have basically become a supremacist death cult that are clearly pursuing goals of soft power and influence that will force them into conflict with the rest of the Marvel Universe. I don't think most of theit intentions are bad ones, and I sympathize with their situation, but they're definitely making some shady moral compromises for what they perceive to be "the greater good."
I don't like seekng the X-Men this way, but it's interesting, and that's ultimately all I ask from storytellers, to be interesting and entertaining in such a way that I don't forget or stop caring about it as soon as I'm done with with it. It may not be the way I would prefer to see these heroes, and I would agree that some characters are definitely being written somewhat out of character, but I'm rolling with it because the story has justified itself by explaining why the perspectives of characters have changed the way they have. They've either explained it or we're going to get that explaination down the road. The one thing i don't like is the implication that Cyclops and Wolverine might not only be sharing Jean, but might be involved with each other. There's a difference between character changes rationalized within the context of the plot and continuity and character changes that just contradict continuity for the sake of change. So far, this feels like the latter until we actually get some straight answers. That's simply not what those two are, nor has that ever been a dynamic to their relationship.
At the end of the day, this whole status quo is not going to be permanent because it was set up from the beginning as a dystopia, a utopia in name only, and almost every issue of X-Men is foreshadowing that it's an unsustainable house of cards. If characters and their status quo feels off, that's because you're supposed to feel that way. The bottom is going to fall out, and whether it's sooner or later, the X-Men are going to have to eventually come to terms with the consequences of their questionable choices in the name of survival and see the error of some of their ways as their best laid plans inevitably come crashing down around them. Hickman has said he doesn't like a lot of what has been done with the X-Men since Grant Morrison and that the outcome of his run will be a kind of course correction. I think that instead of ignoring continuity, he is at least starting our just being more honest and self-aware about what the X-Men have been flirting with out of desperation for the last decade or so to one extent or another: seperatism, militant radicalism, tribalism and supremacy. I think he is portraying them in such a way so that he can deconstruct that idea and rebuild them into something closer to what they ought to be further down the line or when he wraps up his story, and like he did with the Avengers, he made them fall before they rose to new heights and saved the day. That journey and whether or not he is doing something even remotely along those lines is what I'm on board to see. The X-Men may not be the way i want them to be right, but the X-Men haven't been this interesting and thought-provoking since Rick Remender's Uncanny X-Force and Uncanny Uncanny Avengers, so regardless of my reservations, I'm all in.
I have wanted the X-Men to have a shake up, but most of the characters feel wrong and out of place. Almost all of them are out of character. You get the shake up, but without any of the development involved. One of my favorite runs of the X-Men is actually Wolverine and the X-Men. You had a wonderful focus on the old generation of mutants actively teaching the next generation. Getting to see the school be an actual school. Plus, you got to see Logan and Ororo develop a beautiful relationship. If felt real and the build up of it from over the decades felt like a natural progression of the characters. Not like when they forced Storm and Black Panther together. They had to make up their backstory and the two never felt like the loved each other. Ororo actually helped Logan get over Jean and be happy. Now, all of that development is out the window, there is no school, and the mutants have turned into what they feared and fought against.
I am hoping the other shoe drops soon, because what is happening right now does not feel like the X-Men. Yeah, the stories are crazy and interconnected, but the souls of the characters are all gone and that is something I just cannot stand.
I'm loving Hickman's take on the X-Men. It's not only because the dialogue is excellent, the character voices are spot on and the respect for the characters is clear, it's also how he's addressing the constant struggle mutants have faced and the steps their taking to bring that to an end. A new era for mutantkind. Loved Powers of X and House of X and I've been thoroughly enjoying Dawn of X.
I seriously don't think the 'new era' will last.
Hickman is my favorite writer. I really love his Avengers run and after he left I felt like it never had that same magic again. I love the high concepts he introduces and the lore he builds upon. The graphics could annoy people but I find them really cool and nice to look at while also giving you all this side information that expands the story for things he doesn't have time to tell. I like how the smallest detail or tid bit can become a major plot. You never know whats going to happen and that keeps things interesting and the conversation going. I get that people hate where the X-Men are right now but im absolutely amazed that they have evolved into where they're at. I started reading comics in 2000 and while I enjoyed mutants and the X-Men cartoons, some of the time displaced bendis run.. I never got extreamly excited for it. Now I am! It's new and different but do we really want the same stories over and over again? I do agree though some of the other creators are letting me down. I wish there was someone else with hickman's mindset and story telling at marvel he could work off of. None of the books have felt like "Oh ok so when hickman leaves this writer can take over." I feel like once hickman leaves this concept and story will all be reset to the more classic X-Men and for me, that'll be a step backwards
Personally I think Hickman decided to make the x men new and different and I like that. Personally there better now then they were after avengers vs x men.
I love it. Anything new and off the beating path which adds to the series as a whole down the line
Agree very much with all you said. I just miss when the X-Men was only one team and you could follow the formation changes.
I dropped Marauders, Excalibur, Fallen Angels and the non-Hickman issues of New Mutants after issues 6. But I'm still on for the ride with X-Men and X-Force.
And Wolverine. Can't not get Wolverine. But I didn't mess with Cable.
Bring back baby X-Men.
iam just happy its not another Mutants are nearly on the brink of being wiped out again. Plus hoping to see some of the resurected characters might surive this.
I've only read one issue but I'm intrigued by it and want to read more.
I just hope the other shoe drops soon, because I don't care for this status quo getting drawn out any longer than our has to be.
Status quo? The mutants have been treated like they're sub-human monsters for 50 years, it's about damn time they recognize and verbalize publically that they're the superior organisms.
You're meant to feel uneasy about this as a human but to say you'd prefer them to be subjugated to mass murder or political internment vindicates Magneto's point of view.
The only thing the pacifism of Xavier has guaranteed is the extinction of mutants altogether. Peaceful coexistence isn't feasible and they're far more pragmatic and responsible with their immense power. We, on the other hand, poison the earth, kill or imprison the mutants and our own kind en masse, and grievously mishandle the greatest power we've achieved so far. Again, it's about time the mutants took the wheel.
@@RecluseBootsy Yeah, with Apocalypse and Sinister being part of those who take that wheel? Those two are genocidal monsters on their best day. And don't be foolish, just reading what the mutants are saying shows that they're not even slightly more enlightened than humanity. They want to think they are, but they're not. They largely feel like so many smug human jerks.
As an X-Men fan of old-old...I absolutely LOVE Hickman's run so far for the same reasons you do. He's taking a huge risk pushing the X-status quo beyond the tried and true and...stale. And for the first time in years (a decade plus) the entire line feels very cohesive and purposeful and Grand, with depth and consequence. That said...I'm not buying all the titles (mainly because of budget.)
I personally dig what Hickman has done and is doing ... People be bitchin that they are acting out of character ... Of course they are ... Krokoa is doing something to them ...Mind control ... I haven't got it all figured out ... The how's and why's ... But Krokoa is influencing them somehow ... The Scott Logan Emma Jean thing ? Krokoa ... Xavier ? Krokoa ... Maybe the reason they all be acting like super villians ... Maybe they are just sick and freakin tired of being crapped on by humanity ... Scott said it best in HoX # 1 ... I'm super excited to see where the Mutants go from here ... This whole Hickman status quo shift was much NEEDED after years of neglect by Marvel ... Marvel should just hand over the keys to Hickman Cates and maybe Ewing ... And let them dictate what is and was and what will forever be in the Marvel Universe ...
Don't forget Zdarsky.
@@lescryingman4093 I have not read it. Is it mind control?
I actually stopped reading X-men and X-Force last month. House of X and Powers of X was alright and I wanted to see where it was going but no I'm done.
I think it's pretty simple and it's not the pretentious high concept some people think it is: he is going to change things in the third act and quite likely give Marvel the chance to reboot them.
That's all well and good, but it doesn't justify an action-based franchise being so dull. And that is my biggest criticism of Hickman's X-Men: it's boring. It lacks action and it lacks inner conflict.
i just wish i could get a conclusion to many of the plot threads left open from uncanny xmen 600 still :( like beasts trial and fallout from all that, all the time traveling stuff from that new mutant..... forgot her name now)
I'm in the middle. I love it as an original idea and breath of fresh air, how ever I hate that the xmen aren't "sworn to protect a world that fears and hates them" anymore. Thats not xmen --- from an old school claremont die hard--- but it is really good.
Loved house of x powers of x. loved the art. loved the writing. loved the sense of long planning. Love the fact that it was completely different and destroyed the status quo. i agree about taking superhero comics seriously and one thing i hate about modern comics is writers who do not respect the superhero comics they are writing. and yes it all this will end badly... and that's what we want.
I LOVE the immortality machine. Being a Posthumanist myself and a Cryonicist I truly want to live forever. But, I just love the complexity of Hickman's writing. A lot.
I fall on the love it side of the fanbase
There was a Hack/Slash Evil Earnie Crossover one time. I liked that.
I could never say a bad thing about Hickman. One of the best comic book writers in years.
My only personal issue is that plot armor surrounding every character from death now.
Seeing Kitty drown literally meant fuck all to me and any death in the future will have zero effect. Remember reading Death of Wolverine and "saying no fucking way, how?!" Yeah, never again.
Whether one love or hates it, before Hickman, has anyone really cared about the X-Men in five years? I don’t think so.
It’s all just started. We don’t know where this is going. Off we go.
That's true, and that's why you have the passion. It does feel like someone cares again.
I'd say too many cooks. Even Percy is losing me now. The last few issues of X-Force haven't been up to snuff and Wolverine is a bit of a mess. I quit Marauders, Excalibur, New Mutants and Fallen Angels pretty early on, but I am onboard with X-Men as long as Hickman's writing.
Imagine Hickman creating a legion of superheroes line of books at dc with good writers like Dan Jurgens, Peter J Tomasi, Robert Venditti, and Joshua Williamson. All the writers I listed like the legion and Superman as much as any other. And maybe a geoff Johns monthly comic along with that.
Hickman could do so much cool stuff at DC. I think he would be great with Legion of Superheroes, Superman, Green Lantern, Justice League and Aquaman, maybe Question because I'd love to see a conspiracy theory angle to the character again, and Hickman could come up with some absolutely wild conspiracy plots.
Tyler Worsham yeah I know. I want Hickman to be at dc but at the same time idc. He can stay at marvel or whatever. DC has just as good writers but they aren’t given as much power as someone like bendis. I believe James tynion is going to evolve into one of the greats on the level of Geoff Johns. He’s in his 30s now and has lost of potential.
So I was never a big X-men fan growing up, I liked wolverine, nightcrawler,magento. But that was really about it, I read hickmans fantastic four(they are my favorite marvel characters) and I loved it. So I decided to check out hox and pox and I thought they were amazing, so I started reading other runs of the X-men(grant Morrison’s run,and joss whedons run) I love them now, cyclops is an amazing character and I’m sad I never saw that when I was younger.
I recently decided to get into reading comics and decided to start with this series. I've been a long time marvel fan all my life and when i saw they were doing a new series i snagged all 12 of the powers and house of x issues. I enjoyed them for the most part. To try and stay on a linear path I subscribed to the Xmen books and I'm 9 issues in and i'm about to cancel. I think it's a bit ridiculous you have to get every single piece of X related books to understand whats going on, they skip out on too much story in between each Xmen issue.
Absolutely love How/Pox & DoX. The Vulcan shit throwing back to WoK is great shit. It's all coming together beautifully.
How do you always make videos that I want to see?
Haven’t bought many comics in the last year, but I think I’d buy Mojo vs Modok if Logan and Steve were the protagonists.
I think Hickman s set up a ton of great concepts. I just wish there were heroes to root for instead of political terrorists to rail against.
In the upcoming stories, Empyre Xmen and X of Swords, it seems like Hickman is pairing people up on purpose.
You mentioned the writers that are taking things seriously vs. some that, perhaps, are not.
Hickman with Howard
Percy with Duggan
Is it possible that the pairings are done because he sees this problem as well?
I’m really enjoying what Hickman’s doing with the X-men. Other than Uncanny X-Force I haven’t been this interested in the X-men titles in 10-15 years.
As an X-Men fan for the past 42 years (wow, I' old) I actually like Hickman's run thus far. I do think that he has to eventually contend with the fact that The Marauders are trafficking in Drugs and Humans. The contention that the X-Men are now considered villains doesn't really bother me. Mutants have been thrown in a giant box and segregated and demonized throughout the History of Marvel Comics - Mutant Lives Matter.
I know you thought you were being clever and probably didn't mean it to come off this way, but "mutant lives matter" is glib and disrespectful.
@@jaimec1596 We are all entitled to our opinion, but you should know that I am a 49 year old Black Man whose parents marched with Dr. King. I have participated in marches for Human Rights from Anti-Apartheid in the late 80's, to Anti-Police Brutality in the early 90's, to Pro-Gay Marriage at the turn of the Century, including Black Lives Matter starting with the untimely murder of Trayvon Martin to the protests of the past few weeks. As a recent college grad, I created a MultiCultural History curriculum back in 1992 when it was still rather unheard of at the Secondary School level. A great deal of my sense of Social Justice not only was borne of my parents, but in the Comic Books I read as a child (I started reading X-Men back in 1977). I do not require your approval of my sense of humor. If you seriously became nonplussed by a harmless turn of phrase that does absolutely nothing to harm anyone, yet, in my opinion, neatly encapsulates the ongoing theme of X-Men Comics to Real Life events - I seriously suggest that you work harder to develop your sense of humor and learn to read with comprehension instead of self-righteous indictment.
@Jerry Rudasill well said
Human Lives Matter, too.
@@Ares99999 not rlly. Humans in marvel suck so yeah
I'm a long time big fan of X-men and throughout its run, there are massive changes made to the characters that some people hate and other love as well. In case of Hickman, the divide is much more big as the story's direction looks like a 180 on the premise of the whole run. For me, X-men also represents evolution, and what the story-line's going through is a logical evolution (for me) after years of being victims and mistreated, by both within the story and writers as well. X-men just take the next very BIG step in their evolution this time. Its not all that awesome so far, the direction mostly feels exciting for me. There are titles that are delivering quality stories compared to recent years (X-men, X-Force), some up and downs (Marauders, New Mutants), middling (Excalibur) and a miss (Fallen Angels). The wave 2 titles are too new to have a proper feedback as of now, but I am not that optimistic on some of them; hopefully I'm wrong on that point.
I think my main gripe is the Children of the Atom book, which is the only Dawn of X title I have not put in my pull list. There are awesome X-characters that have no official teams as of now such as Nightcrawler, Archangel, Multiple Man, Banshee, Warpath, so on and so forth, but they choose to do a book with all brand new characters what seems to be not really mutants. I'm not sure if that assumption is correct but so far the premise sucks.
Hickman should just add an X-team that is straight forward hero team not only for mutants but also for humans to show the readers that X-men are still somewhat heroes and not just isolationists. I will put those characters I mentioned above on that team haha.
Thanks for the great video!
My dad gave me my first comic book - the wolverine volume one issue one . it introduced me to comics . even if batman is my favorite hero now i still love wolverine and the x-men . but now ... this isn't how the x-men act . if hickman wanted to shake stuff up don't ruin the characters to do it .these aren't the x-men I know , where is my wolverine , the peaceful professor x ? where is the X-MEN ?
@CBPerch / Insightful, commentary. I have not read X-Men in ten yrs, or more. Several people have recommend I start reading Hickmans HC House of X/ Powers of X, and continue with the other X-titles through the Dawn of X TP’s. I’ve bought the Hickman HC, I’ll open it this week. Now, I wanted to ask if you’ve heard, as I have, of a little whisper that says Hickman’s X-Men is either being canceled, by end of 2020, or he’s leaving Marvels X-Men..? Let me know if you’ve heard of this through the grapevine. I can neither confirm nor refute this whisper...but, we’ll see...?
Wait. Where was the controversy part? That some people are not fans of it?
It’s such a weird run- because it’s like- alright! Hickman! But to get the full picture with the other books- you have to read these titles from people who are....not even close to Hickman- no disrespect to them but it’s jarring reading a Hickman XMen book then read a non Hickman X book right after- it seems like this whole XMen writing team did not work out behind the scenes after a certain amount of time and it sucks it happened this way
Silver Sabre, stonewall, crimson commando.
Yes! Thank you.
Back in 2008 I met Hickman and said to him that I'd love to see him on X-Men someday, well it happened, and I didn't even finish reading the HoX/PoX series' as I didn't care like what he was doing. Taking the joke of the X-Men die and come back all the time, and then making that a major plot point, that everyone now is basically how Magneto was on Asteroid M/Avalon isolated from the world, warning them not to challenge them, cutting the balls off of all the classic villains, from Magneto, Apocalypse, Krakoa(though Jason Aaron did that in his Wolverine and the X-Men comic first), and Sinister. The whole Phalanx stuff just made me lose interest in where things would go next, because either he goes for that endgame, or doesn't, and I don't like either answer. Also when you have Legion and Proteus, is really anything impossible? In a way I'm glad I tapped out, the cost per issue, the double shipping, all the tie-ins from too many low tier and mediocre creative teams, I'm better off saving my money.
I like the run and I can see why people think the X-men are not heroes right now, as Hichman pointed out by Fantastic Four. However, giving the X-men this attitude solves the mutant plot-hole problem, why do people love the Avengers but hate the X-men when there is no way to casually identify the mutant? Hichman's answer is, make the X-men egocentric jerks.
That's not a plothole . first , humans hate the hulk ; a fucking avenger and the thing ; a ff member ! And second , humans hate them because they will one day replace humans as the dominant species
i will say that HOX/POX was ground breaking and I loved each issue. It was time to breathe some new life in the X-men and completely turn everything we know about them on it's head. For awhile the X-books were stale and still recycling the same old threads from claremont ,except they weren't claremont and you can't outdo the original.
My issue with X-men now is since dawn of X its too many books and too many subpar writers. I understand that Hickman probably needed to farm out stuff but either marvel made him choose certain people or he choose them and either way we the readers are suffering. Seriously, the writing sucks...the artwork in most cases is so-so and no one even cares what is going on and that crazy considering the hype after HOX/POX ended.....we were psyched to see what was ahead for the X-men now I'm about to pray they bring back Claremont and simonson and hell find lobdell because even his stuff is better than what I see in Marauders, excalibur, way of x, new mutants and anything else outside of X-men, x-force and wolverine and I say even those three have there moments of mediocracy.
i know marvel isnt gonna listen but they should. the X-men titles are meant to be better and bolder and they were for decades so someone should be questioning what is going on cause it isn't selling. I see these titles living on shelves. As for me, I stopped. I literally just stopped all x-titles until I hear word Hickman is awake or those other bums have thrown in the towel and stopped writing the books.
Did you have any idea at the time of this video just how crappy the *X-Men* would become a year later? I bet you didn’t.
Nope.
Honestly I think Hickman's xmen is amazing. Going to be pulling the entire run.
I have a love-hate relationship with Hickman's X-Men run as on one hand I love it but on the other hand I hate it.. I can't really put into words my likes and dislikes of the run so far but so far the parts I dislike to me is outweighing what I like about it
I did like the first two miniseries he did. But it went downhill from there.
@@kevintanza6968 I am more or less with you on that matter …
I love Hickman's FF and Illuminati Avengers that led into Secret Wars. This was not so good. Wolverine having a beer with Gorgon? Prof X finally giving up on the dream. Maybe bring Byrne in and he can retcon it by making them Doombots? Just kidding.
Because it's the antithesis of what the X-Men comics should be as ridiculously death defying God elites live on their genetic apartheid island where child killers and mass murderers are forgiven because of their genetic code. And justified personal enmitys have been brushed aside so mutants can sing kumbayah and manipulate non-cooperative human governments.
That covers a lot of it.
I think my biggest problem with Hickman's X-Men is how exclusionary it is. I grew up exclusively on DC, and that's what I read. With Marvel launching all these new X books, I wouldn't mind trying out X-Men, but I can't. For Marvel to charge $5/issue regular, and up to $8 for a #1 is ridiculous to me. Then to find out that the books go deep into X-Men lore, and to get the full scope of the story, people have told me I need to get 5 or more books, half of which are only "meh"? And on top of that, the characters are going to be in unfamiliar forms? Marvel, have you lost it?! I'm not working with a ton of money. X-Men is only 1 line. If anybody can let me know, if you can get by reading only the main X book, then I'll get a hold of House and Powers and I'll try it, but if not....
Hickman has said you do not need to read the other books to understand what is going on, but honestly, that is a load of shit. You need to read everything he is writing in order for the X-Men to even have a hope of what is going on.
@@TyranusRex721 Thanks for the info. That's what I thought. Yeah, not a good strategy. So if you want to read it it's go broke or pirate, really. I probably spend around $70 a month in comics right now, not much, I read 5 titles+ random finds, I'm not willing to drop another $30-60 for JUST X-Men.
@@superanimegamer01 I honestly trade wait at this point because it is cheaper. Though Marvel is also uping the price of their trades so it sucks for everyone.
The talking content of these videos need editing. There is too much talking and no content in the first minutes.
It's all talking.
I'm sorry, but those who think the X-Men are now the villains are kinda racist
Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, both Jewish artists, created the mutants to testify to the cruelty and xenophobia that people inflict on Jews and other minorities
Each X-Men run continued to develop this metaphor by exploiting it in different ways
There, Hickman's mutants can no longer endure anything
"No more" cries Charles Xavier as Scott, Jean, Kurt and the others were massacred at the end of the fourth issue of HoX because they wanted to save their species
They wanted to coexist peacefully with humans for entire decades, they kept saving the world, and in return humans threw them in the face William Stryker, the Decimation, the Sentinels,...
And when Genosha was genocided ? Only Kitty's father helped
And when the Xavier Institute was transformed into a concentration camp during the Decimation ? Ah yes, it was humans who set up this concentration camp to "help the 198 remaining mutants"
Not to mention the M-Pox
And the atrocious alternative future from which Rachel comes
In my opinion, the mutants should definitely have abandoned the humans, but even there they are still trying to help them by providing them with incredible medical assistance
The.X-Men.Aren't.The.Villains.
your'er right there not villains the x-men are just tying to life
I wasn’t excited for Hickman to come onto X-Men.
It feels good to always be right
Making up issjes, shame on you
The X-Men are villains now. The dream is dead.
You must be kidding