Explaining why people play grapplers
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- #lordknight #fightinggames
Based on years of research (tm), I explain why people pick and play as grapplers in fighting games.
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people play grapplers cause they are the best its that simple
On a LK video lol that’s god like monkey man
We love to send everyone to heaven
Gg ez
Tell ‘em
It's cause they sniff glue
Also, there's few things in life more satisfying than feeling how afraid the opponent is. I played Alex for a while, and I was amazed on how much people just kept running away and doing shit on wake up just because they were afraid of my grab
This man knows. Being in the opponent's head, feeling his fear, is just the best. Buffer heavenly from a hella minus hfb on someone's wakeup, and when you scoop that bitch holding up back try to tell me you aren't having more fun than anyone else in the room. You're lying
That's exactly it, and the dopamine hit of the your SPD-like scoop. GG is a little different, I don't feel the fear as much (which probably why I don't like Pot as much as other grapplers I've played). But playing Geif in SF, I've had rounds where I literally just hit forward on the stick, slowly walking towards my opponent and they can't wait to put themselves into the corner. Then I get the knockdown, meaty them or knock them out of the air trying to escape. Then you can feel they are finally ready to go for a ride, they block, and then you get to watch the most glorious special move in the game. They are now broken, the set is yours. There is nothing like it.
“Easy to play not easy to win” is a perfect explanation that applies to a whole different level. Sajam made a video of 6th grader +R tournament and everyone thought Potemkin was top 1 besides their teacher’s main until ‘zoning’ was introduced to the meta.
Since that video it makes me double take a few comments I see now and then lol.
Despite having very easy bnb combos , Potemkin has the hardest optimal combos in terms of execution and game awareness to recognize when you can go for them. Few people in the world are doing these combos consistently , a legit mention is FAB of course. His game plan is very easy and the hard thing as @LordKnight said is to get into the situation grapplers like to be.
Fr. Kara back megafist is difficult to hit in combos
Favorite type of non-traditional grapplers are the ones from KoF, which are essentially just rushdown with command grabs (Clark, Shermie, Daimon, Ramon, etc.)
Aren't all non-traditional grapples essentially rushdown with command grabs? I haven't seen any example of other types of non-traditional grapplers
Makoto in 3rd strike also fits
@@blazerker1640im super late, but theres armor king in tekken, hes a non traditional grappler because hes a whiff punish/footsies based grappler, which is really cool i think
@@blazerker1640 Ingrid from SF-Alpha 3 MAX is a zoner with command grabs.
The fast grappler is my favorite archetype. R. Mike is probably my favorite. Shermie, Blue Mary, Bullet, Alex etc all count as fast grapplers.
people play grapplers because it's hilarious to obliterate somebody's health bar in only a couple of attacks for making one small mistake, i main trini in battle for the grid because she can take over half a character's health with a full screen command grab into level 2
My friend plays Trini from time to time and it makes me physically sick getting grabbed from full screen and losing 90% of my health
yea then you grab someone with sentry then do an unblockable and kill them :)
When lk said " I earned that" I immediately thought of the guard crush video lol
There are very few things in a fighting game more satisfying than walking through half a minute of obstacles and then conditioning an opponent to block, and swiping them off of their legs for that KO.
One of my favourite match ups of all time is Playing as Gief vs Sagat. Getting through that bullet hell and slowly pushing him into a corner and making him fear me is a vibe I love.
Bless the MTG talk. I came straight from card games into fighting games and there's SO MUCH OVERLAP it's kind of insane.
Besides both genres being born in the early 90s and still holding a lot of that early DNA nowadays.
I'd love to see your thoughts on why people play technical characters like Zato, Jacko, Kan'Ra (from KI) etc. Good vid!
5:55 is exactly why I like playing Potemkin.
Big, smashy buttons and I think he's fun to play without having to remember all kinds of weird shenanigans or combo routes - and landing a PotBuster feels like a win even if you lose the match imo.
No lies! I love doing 2HS counter hit into HPB
If you play a grappler even once seriously in a game its so easy to get,
I play Millia and shit,
but if I'm playing against Sol, and I
Normal Throw -> H Disc -> (land)Normal Throw
If I see even a single frame of that mans DP get eaten by my second throw or that "REVERSAL" text show, I feel it, I pop tf off a little bit
I love grapplers,
*when they stay away, in the corner and die fast to mixups and combos. otherwise getting grabbed twice in a row makes me wanna throw my controller.*
The real dopamine hit of traditional grapplers is landing the air SPD.
Landing a raw Borscht Dynamite outside of a combo is what all Gief mains live for.
as a grappler "main" I think you nailed this one.
Instant subscribe to stuff like this. I love how in recent years the FGC has put in a lot of effort to introduce new players to universal mechanics like notations and terminology. I didn't know TK meant for years
i just can't explain how good it feels to land a fully heated Grab super on bullet and drag opponent across the screen in the 15 second cutscene when spinning the stick like a madman
I wish everyone made grapplers like SNK does - guys that have grappling as a big part of their kit but aren't gimped in their movement options. Blue Mary, Ramon, hell even Skullgirl's Beowulf. Fantastic characters with fun options that don't get reduced down to "get in and blow the enemy up after struggling against the stream."
exactly. i love "get the grab and win big" grapplers but my favorite grapplers are grapplers in the same way dizzy is a zoner. sure she has zoning tools but she has two airdashes and a ton of ways to make you miserable at multiple ranges. zoning is only one part of her gameplan.
its why nagoriyuki is more fun to me- his grab is a core part of his gameplan but he can win entire games without using it once because the threat of getting grabbed makes his other options more terrifying- and that's true of pot too but his options are not as varied as nago in the same situations, pot just has the means to bully you into situations where the grab becomes an inevitability
I mean, isn't that just Sol if you want it in Gear and more recently under the new patch, May?
Or even the two Brolys, 16, Bluku.
Plenty of them exist, people just don't like to call them grapplers. Even in SG, people think Cerebella over Beowulf if you tell them to point out the grappler.
Honestly I think I'd like Potemkin less if he had a dash. Having very clearly defined strengths and weaknesses is part of the appeal to me, the less balanced out their kit is the better. I'm probably one of like five people who has played both grapplers and zoners though so maybe that's just me
@@arachnofiend2859 yeah, pot doesn't need one, hes built around not having one
isnt the fact that EVERYONE has a command grab cover this..............you could call all the strive characters grapplers if they decide to focus on their command grabs more....
I mean what youre asking for is grapplers that dont grapple as often because their mobility forces you to nerf the grab damage.
Grapplers are grapplers not because they have a command grab but because they HAVE TO RELY ON THEIR GRAB FOR CONSISTENT DAMAGE ACROSS MATCHES. If grapplers got great mobility then all of a sudden there is not a need to use the command grab nearly as often because you have more mixup options on top of the grab.
The reason I like playing grapplers (mainly the traditional grapplers) is be cause it's hard to get in close and hit that grab, but when you do get in and hit that grab all your hard work finally pays off.
I play Ram for the little monsters that hold the swords and the swords themselfs xd
Nailed it on the head here. The challenge of gettin in and getting that cmd grab is what keeps us going
To paraphrase Sajam:
>Get hit like 15 times
>Guess correctly twice
>Win round
>GGs
>I'm a fuckin' genius.
the salem reference in the description LOL
Beowulf from skullgirls is my favorite grappler, because it's not just one big grab or poke, instead hes designed to fight like a WWE wrestler with multiple throws and stuff and its amazing
Good points, including ease of use. Shorter combos is helpful in playing multiple games, & less often than I'd like.
I'm fine w/limited or alternate forms of movement over dashing usually.
I've been trying to main Leo, but have twice the wins & character level w/Potemkin.
Now I'm wondering just to focus on Potemkin or try harder w/Leo. Fun vid.
Have you met the abomination known as kara back megafist. To this day still cannot use it in combos despite it being optimal. Ease of use my ass.
I agree kara mf is hard af and Pot probably has the most technical combos in the cast but it’s not really a MUST to do well with him, you can do fine without kmf
At the absolute peak level Pot is legit one of the hardest characters to execute mechanically. Some of that nonsense only FAB can do consistently. LK was talking about picking up the character for the first time though, at that point the only kara you're really worried about is Potemkin Buster which isn't that much of a problem.
if you take the time to grind the input out (both variations) you'll find that it's pretty versatile tho
you'll still essentially shit out damage by principle of having kBMF in your combo set so what i like to do is lab out opportunities to where panic mashing out a combo can lead to kara loops
this gives you the muscle memory to find opportunities to convert into it which i find more important to do first before getting optimal combos
This type of analytical commentary is pretty cool, thanks for the vid :)
Explaining why people play zoners I’d really like to see you dive into that one….
Still dopamine, just from the feeling of like, constantly making the right reads on keeping people out and not letting them even get started. Basically you tend to have the most control for the match, and keeping them out is fun.
Zoning only sucks for players fighting it that aren't patient and want to always be in range to slug it out, but aren't playing the most mobile characters either. Many people just don't like that they have to get through the zoners game first before they get to play their game
6:33 I'd like to point out that I play Ram bc lady of color with big swords and a killer fit. Her gameplay also just speaks to me.
I'm glad he brought up the concept of non-traditional grapplers since everyone likes to hate on Pot who is the only traditional grappler in the game. This is while Sol, May, Nago(this guy teleports though), and to some extent Faust get to dash up throw, dash up command grab, and or dash up c.S you ad nauseam.
dude love the comparison to mtg archetypes
For me, I play grapplers for a number of reasons, the biggest probably has to be the reward I get from working to reach it. On another end, I also play them because I've always played/liked tank-style characters in media, ie Heavy in tf2, Reinhardt in overwatch, and things like that. Hulk was also my favorite marvel character growing up. When I got into fighting games, it just felt natural I guess lol. I also always liked underdogs, when I got into 3s, my first fighting game, besides Sean, Alex felt like the ultimate underdog for me in both lore and gameplay, I liked characters that kinda filled that niche I guess. To add, they're also a really good lesson on patience, characters like them who are usually slow have to spend time looking for opportunities to get that win condition, and as you mentioned, that feeling of finally getting that condition feels really nice.
You forgot the concept of the walking Casino. I feel that almost all grappler players love gambling.
Oh, as with that "Magic" example, Most Grapplers are either the "Timmy" and just want BIG DAMAGE, or the "Spike" with their complexity. As one states, Grapplers only need to do Long Division once - find your options, find the opponent's options, calculate the tools between the both of you, and respond in accordance till you get your equation and claim victory.
I prefer Grapplers thanks to their general "Easy to Learn, Hard to Master" style. Yes, big unga bunga grappler deal TON OF DAMAGE, but a teacher can find TON OF OPPERTUNITY for TON OF DAMAGE.
I wish I had decent editing skills so I could make "why do people play grapplers [cut] massive chest muscles"
I like them because it forces the opponent to play by my rules most of the time. Get too close? You're gonna get grabbed. Trying to run? I'm just gonna come get you and grab you. A lot of the time they'll be so scared of the grab they start becoming predictable and you can really capitalize on the punish.
Part of the grappler dopamine is beating technical, smart characters with the simple, blunt option. Just like heavy says in TF2, can't outsmart bullet
The best I ever felt playing a grappler was when I beat gio's stagger pressure with raw pb after losing 10-0 in park.
Love the analysis. Sick as.
I find it so satisfying to punish someone for trying to block, and know they tilt
I just be eatin glue my dude
I play Potemkin because I have good execution and frame data knowledge but not the best gamesense at times. Grapplers often let me make a few more mistakes and live while I eye up the opponent's offense and try to get big damage in their gaps. Of course the aesthetic is fun, as is the feeling of being in the opponent's head.
Similar to why I played Chie in Persona 4 arena.
TLDR
Brains too smooth to mix like normal people
Title: "Why do people like to sin"
6:34 I feel attacked lmao
I play grappler when I want to make my friends suffer, I enjoy the process even when loosing
I play grapplers because I'm a smooth-brain paint chugger that can't do combos & the dopamine rush of seeing *BIG NUMBER* is akin to actual drugs. I also like the idea that as long as I have HP, I'm one hug away from a comeback or a win.
Potemkin was the first character I played in Strive who felt like an expression of me, as corny as that sounds.
"the ONLY way to get the throw to hit is if you're blocking"
- Cries in my dp getting pot buster'd
Dbfz was perfect for me taking advantage of peoples emotional state. Tern Gohan made them confused. Frieza made them frustrated. Broly made them scared. Take advantage of the emotional reaction and gain an advantage
Growing up. I was never a fan of grapplers. Since every time I pick one. And tried to do their grabs. You just see me jumping up and down trying to do a 360 input to get the motion. The only "grapplers" I play are Z Broly, Kouma, Enkidu (not sure if he counts), laura (not sure if she counts since she has hc inputs), King / Armor King, and Ivy which imo is the hardest grappler because her command throws are not traditional 360, 720 inputs, the inputs look like this: ↘️↖️➡️⬇️↘️↙️ or this: ↘️↖️⬅️➡️↗️↙️➡️. Trying this as a kid was daunting af.
I have mixxed feelings about pot specifically
he's so popular, so many people play him at all levels of the game, and I fight him so much, so I know a lot about how to fight pot (or at least I'd like to think so)
but also I play baiken and bridget and they are just terrible matchups
I feel like pot is always so frustrating to fight because I can't do anything without getting punished unless I'm whif punishing
I play grapplers because I like how big and ripped they are
If Kohaku's a grappler, she's a pretty privileged grappler
because its fun as hell
what is the name of that silly music in the background where is that from ? i want it
People play grappler because they are dopamine junkie.
Getting that one grab after failing to do so in like 20+ sets is euphoric
I kind of have a differnt personal take. I only ever consider grapplers if i actually feel that there is some tech that is fairly difficult to pull off. In Strive the fact that Pot can kara any move is actually what made me pick him up : )
Tibazz
I like neutral and whatever character makes neutral exciting I think I tend to pick them. Zappa,Tager, Bison, mitsuru, urien, kid buu, broly, DDD
I main potemkin because he has the coolest super in the game
???? Why you got me ready to try Pot???
Because commamd brab
I just like drinking paint man
How dose Shermie fit in to this?
I picked up Pot simply because I'm bad at combos.
wym, ky is a great grappler with good mobility
I'm a Timmy through and through. Back when I was young and foolish enough to play Hearthstone my eyes would light up any time a "pull a minion from your hand/deck" card was printed and immediately try to build a control deck around it. I shied away from grapplers for a long time because I can't do the aesthetics of a lot of traditional grapplers (Zangief and Hugo are cool but not my kind of cool) but Potemkin... Potemkin is very much for me.
Dang I was really hoping you'd go into a bit more about why top level players tend to dislike grapplers. I know JWong famously hates them
Nah you nailed it this is totally why I love playing Potemkin lmao
Grapplers have grabs for every situation and those grabs have certain properties like (strike invul) the range is insane, and alot of times the properties arnt listed or obvious (strike/throw invul vs broly armor). And a bunch of equally bullshit moves that beat your moves, outrange and bulldoze you and stop you from getting away from them. And you get grabbed OUT OF SHIT all the time, dont even start with that you guessed i was only blocking. You get grabbed trying to escape half the time your trying to get away from something stupid. Ppl play Grapplers because they like mashing 360s when they arnt collecting toll under bridges But also grapplers dont actually have souls but a command grab where the soul should be
cause im high.
Short answer: i'm a bitch
I play grapplers because other people hate it
i'm offended you call kohaku a grappler and not satsuki
i play grapplers in every game except guilty gear. i dont like combos in any other games that isnt gear so i just fucking ooga booga command grab and its pretty funny
Card games make me sad too Lk😂
I suck at combos
beowulf is the HYPE grappler and my favorite grappler to play ever
"Axl if they like jorts"
"Goldlewis if they like the cops"
Fucking died bro lmao
i had to come check for the comments for this. the cops killed me
@@JimmiePitts Sorry to hear, RIP
@@deadfr0g underatted comment
Justice for jimmie
Plus a Fed plus the grim reaper
Grapplers are the masters of fear in fgs. They are the best designed to create situations in where the defending player can make mistakes that are very punishing. Literally, the primary defensive mechanic in all fgs, grappler exploit by grabbing. Since blocking can be so bad, players will panic and do anything else. Panic backdashes, jump outs and mashing can get an opponent killed even faster than landing the grab in the first place. And once they are terrified to do anything... *grab*. It's perfect.
cant tell if this is satirical
@@metaldoji you haven't grabbed enough people. But this i
Mostly is based off a core a video about grappling and zoning being two archetypes that exceed at manipulating the opponent. Grapplers with fear, and zoners with frustration.
Yeah but back dash beats grab in strive
@@tetsukami404 as it should.
@@tetsukami404 if you read back dash you can kara pb it on every character besides chipp
Something you didnt add but makes a big difference to me is that grapplers typically have more effective health. So you have room for a few mistakes while looking for your opportunity. That plus the dopamine hit of getting the grab is why pot is so fun for me.
The process of setting up frame traps all set for like four rounds and then I finally get to SPD two or three times in a row is better than sex I'm not going to lie
Having Patrice O'Neal as your profile pick makes this comment even better. You sir are a man of culture. ❤️
You basically nailed it. Its just a beautiful feedback loop where that dopamine hit of landing a grab is made sweeter by you having to struggle for it against your opponent. Technical skill is never that big an issue which supports the mind games you look forward to in a match.
Beautifully said
just satisfying.
also not just the grabs, landing a hard punch is just as great.
2:35 Between Goldlewis and Nagoryuki it seems as if ArcSys has set itself the challenge of coming up with physically big characters who look and even move quite a lot like traditional grapplers, but aren't actually grapplers ...
4:06 Given the sheer _amount of money_ there used to be and to some extent still is in Magic: the Gathering, you can bet your life that it has a team of professionals optimising the Skinner box. This is the game that (I'm barely exaggerating) invented the Monetisation Strategy, and was the centre of the hobby-gaming universe back in the early '90s.
The money I wasted on that game as a kid in the late '90s just to play with _one_ other person is disgusting.
Looking at MTG today, as an adult, it's as bad as anything EA has to offer. Booster packs were the original loot boxes 🤮
Nago isn't a "traditional" grappler, but the standard grappler guessing game is central to his play and it all has to do with blood gauge. You have two options to reduce your blood gauge: sword strikes (aka pokes) or command grab. These objectives are similar to the tools a grappler uses to win. Where I think they differ is, while the grappler uses the pressure game to facilitate the grab by conditioning them to block, Nago uses the grab to facilitate his continued pressure, either by regaining blood meter or by conditioning them NOT to block.
@@johnhurley8918 to be fair, Potemkin command grabbing you doesn't end the game. Nago getting bite means you lose.
i'm old as hell and i've played played gief since SF2, I picked him up at 9 years of age because "he's the biggest dude, he must be the strongest" . i always have to ask my friends in game series I haven't played before "hey, which one is zangief?"
To be honest I just like BIG, HUGE, LADS bro, and they tend to be grapplers so I am 9 time out of 10 a grappler main.
Coming from someone who’s played a decent amount of 3rd Strike I love that Potemkin has Kara cancels. I always thought Akuma’s Kara Demon was one of the sickest things ever in a fighting game and Potemkin can use Kara Buster to get silly range on a grab that does 50% but also Kara Garuda for oki and Kara Back Mega Fist and Heat Knuckle for some longer combos midscreen and in the corner. Also Potemkin’s Japanese VA brought the hype with the voice lines. Landing a raw Heavenly Pot Buster gives me the kind of rush I only thought was possible by taking drugs.
Playing a grappler is like having a drunk step dad because you never know if theyre gonna hit you or not
I'd say I play grappler because of my father. He is a big guy, himself, and as I always admired him, I ended up liking big characters a lot.
i agree with a lot of what you said, command grabbing people just feels so good. also i love the intimidation the grappler brings to the match
I play grapplers. I find it the easiest way to psychologically torture my opponent, that’s why
Goldlewis if you like the Cops, bruh I spit out my drink 😂
My first fighting game that I played a lot of hours in was SF4. And I liked Abel, because his game plan was simple, and he had high reward.
But, it affected my choice of character in other fighting games I played after. As I didn’t command throw often, but I relied on the threat of it to open my opponent up. He was a perfect starting character that defined my fighting game experience ever since.
2:23 Me as a Ramlethal + Giovanna player: Yes, always respect the true men of culture
6:33 .. wait
I dig grapplers largely because I have access to huge damage as long as I can read my opponent well. Consider Potemkin's moveset: he's got a response for everything but each of his tools only work best in specific scenarios.
this also touches upon something many grapplers suffer from intrinsically
more so than a lot of other archetypes, outside of direct patches or system versions, grapplers lose the most relative strength the most quickly over the course of a game's lifetime.
The flip side is that grapplers are way stronger at the start. They’re the easiest to do good damage with, and their mixups are the easiest to understand. When everyone is new, the grappler reigns supreme, then people figure out how to defend and play neutral and the grappler players start weeping about “why are grapplers always low tier 😔”
Coming from USF4 Guile and just messing around with the cast (with a defensive oriented play-style), I wanted to learn how to play Laura in SFV. So with her hybrid grappling style and just landing those CGs, I learned to love playing grappler characters, which is why I also main Potemkin in Strive :D
You nailed it. I def enjoy the challenge of playing with the mobility restrictions, and the patience it takes to set up your grab, and the payoff for that patience. There is nothing like defending against an onslaught watching your big health bar dwindle and then FINALLY they screw up and you got them, and you link your combo into your command grab and the playing field is back to even ...but the momentum has shifted because people lose heart after that sever chunk of health loss in such a few moves. I love it. Plus big guys aren't always the most popular.
As a Kanji player, I don't hit the command grab because I know they're blocking, it's because they pressed literally any button (OR blocked)
Which I guess explains why they had to make him bad at everything else.
My two favorite grapplers are Beowulf from Skullgirls and T. Hawk from SF. You can flex so much with all the Beowulf throws, and T. Hawk just exudes raw power in every grab. And the best part... BOTH CAN FLY
Beowulf's not really a grappler. When you've got unreactable high/lows, and all your throws prorate the combo by 50%, and your one command grab is hella slow, you tend to go for the high/low and the throws just supplement that mixup
Cerebella better