Hi, sorry for the much delayed reply. I would recommend start with something short, like 70-100mm, get a star tracker so that you can do 30s exposures. 24-50mm is also very nice focal length coz you can include some landscape.
i just took this intro picture , just like that , just a bit more noise on it ,maybe image scale bit smaller , but interesting with what , its not even a Scope, its DSLR lens 100-300mm , and since i run APSC sensor its not using full 55mm aperture of it , bu 1,5x smaller , i guess that is 35mm from the glass element . So very modest , even modest"er" then someones Guide Scope , and still galaxy is there , takes 3 minutes of exposure to get it to show up good , so about 30m of exposure to get a decent image .
Hi Ben ,, please talk about a fast lens ( Your TAK Epsilon Astrograph ) that will speed up much more the frames and will increase SNR a LOT. Also travel to a DARK SITE improves a lot the SNR for almost all Dim fuzzies. Clear skies Luis Gtz
This is a good question! CMOS generally has higher QE than CCD, which means it's more sensitive. As for infrared, I see both QE curves go down quite a lot there. So my best guess is they are probably comparable in infrared area.
Hi Ben, I'm new at this. I have a new 14" Dobsonian Orion Skyquest XX14g and a new Meade Deep Sky Imager IV camera. The Meade camera does not have a complete detailed operating manual. Maybe you can help me....the four LEDs all come on but the "SYS" LED continually flashes. Do you, or anyone else please, know what the flashing SYS LED means? Thanks.
Hi there, have you checked Meade's website? I see there's a user manual for download under support section of its webpage: www.meade.com/accessories/cameras/deep-sky-imager-dsi-iv/deep-sky-imager-iv-dsi-iv-monochrome.html
@@bensastrophotography5915 Thanks. I downloaded that manual and is very detailed regarding the operation of the software but mentions nothing about the little LED lights on the camera. So far I haven't been able to find any reference at all, anywhere, to those four LED lights on the camera. I bought the camera from BandH Photo and I asked them, and they just referred me to Meade. I emailed customer service at Meade a week ago, but have not received any response yet except the usual automated reply. But the camera is working fine, so I guess the SYS LED that flashes continuously is normal.
If you look at the specs of a typical CCD sensor, the KAF8300 and the CMOS sensor, 1600MM, then the QE is very similar at 60%, the 183 is even better at higher than 80%. CMOS sensors have as good as if not better QE. Dark current is actually better for CMOS camera's, the 8300 is
Thanks for the comments Adrian! When I said CCD is more sensitive than CMOS, I was referring to the fact that readout electronics on each CMOS pixels blocked part of the light hitting the sensor, while CCD doesn't have this issue. I believe QE efficiency doesn't cover that part. So, the overall sensitivity might be on par for front illuminated CMOS and CCD, or it really depends on specific models. Of course, if you bring back illuminated CMOS into the discussion, I believe you're definitely right, CMOS is a no brainer:) btw, I have some friends using CCD and are generally happy with it, when I compare our integrated masters, the difference is really marginal.
@@adrianphotovisions2308 I don't, but from the definition, it's the efficiency of the sensor converting photons into electrons, and to me, it makes no sense if they count the photons that don't even hit the sensor.
@@bensastrophotography5915 The QE is measured in a practical way, in other words, if there is a hidden area or there are microlenses, all these factors affect the quoted QE. I dont know how you could measure CMOS pixel QE without the electronics in it.. I did side by side comparisons when I switched from a QSI 683 with the 8300 CCD sensor to the ASI 1600MM with the same scope. The superiority, S/N of the CMOS camera was very evident, but not by a huge amount. CCD's still have a place and there are good camera's out there, but the technology of CMOS sensors has surpassed CCD's and continues to get better. CCD's havent progressed in the last 10 years, they have reached a limit.
I confirmed your point with a CMOS expert, you're totally right in the sense QE is a practical measurement. If 20% of the photons get blocked by electronics, and the sensor converted 80% of the photons it receives into electrons, then the QE should be 80%x(1-20%)=64%. Thanks again for sharing you thoughts!!
There's no comparison really. I've used them all and monochrome cooled camera give the best images by far no doubt. An $1000 cmos cam is going tp blow away any dslr period not even close. Yes even a $5000 canon. Quantum efficiency, read noise, quantization error, amp glow and bayer matrix the biggest reasons along with cooling.
Great video Ben. Good insight and the first time I’ve seen side by side comparison of cooling va no cooling. Thanks !
Thanks Greg!
Great video with very clear explanations... thanks!
Excellent. Thank you. I love learning especially from quality teachers.
Nice job Ben, very clear. I wasn't aware that the CMOS sensors had lower noise, so, thanks for that insight.
Thanks Steve! I'm glad it helps:)
Great comparison
One of the best video, you may want to explain pixel size as well when choosing a camera
Great insight! Actually I plan to explain pixel size when talk about choosing telescopes.
What lens are your recommendations for DSLR astrophoto beginners?
Hi, sorry for the much delayed reply. I would recommend start with something short, like 70-100mm, get a star tracker so that you can do 30s exposures. 24-50mm is also very nice focal length coz you can include some landscape.
i just took this intro picture , just like that , just a bit more noise on it ,maybe image scale bit smaller , but interesting with what , its not even a Scope, its DSLR lens 100-300mm , and since i run APSC sensor its not using full 55mm aperture of it , bu 1,5x smaller , i guess that is 35mm from the glass element . So very modest , even modest"er" then someones Guide Scope , and still galaxy is there , takes 3 minutes of exposure to get it to show up good , so about 30m of exposure to get a decent image .
One of the great video for Beginners. Thanks
Hi Ben ,, please talk about a fast lens ( Your TAK Epsilon Astrograph ) that will speed up much more the frames and will increase SNR a LOT. Also travel to a DARK SITE improves a lot the SNR for almost all Dim fuzzies. Clear skies
Luis Gtz
Sure Luis, hopefully that will be covered in my next video:)
Perfect explanation and very helpful!
Highly informative! Thank you!
Glad you like it Sim!
Is ccd more sensitive to infrared than cmos?
This is a good question! CMOS generally has higher QE than CCD, which means it's more sensitive. As for infrared, I see both QE curves go down quite a lot there. So my best guess is they are probably comparable in infrared area.
Excellent video, Ben!
Thank you Rick! Glad you like it:)
Great video, thanks for posting. Very helpful.
Thank you Seti for the encouraging words!
Great in-depth video on choosing a deep sky camera, found it useful, thanks for sharing!!
Thanks for the instant feedback! Glad it helps:)
This guy is very good!!
Hi Ben, I'm new at this. I have a new 14" Dobsonian Orion Skyquest XX14g and a new Meade Deep Sky Imager IV camera. The Meade camera does not have a complete detailed operating manual. Maybe you can help me....the four LEDs all come on but the "SYS" LED continually flashes. Do you, or anyone else please, know what the flashing SYS LED means? Thanks.
Hi there, have you checked Meade's website? I see there's a user manual for download under support section of its webpage: www.meade.com/accessories/cameras/deep-sky-imager-dsi-iv/deep-sky-imager-iv-dsi-iv-monochrome.html
@@bensastrophotography5915 Thanks. I downloaded that manual and is very detailed regarding the operation of the software but mentions nothing about the little LED lights on the camera. So far I haven't been able to find any reference at all, anywhere, to those four LED lights on the camera. I bought the camera from BandH Photo and I asked them, and they just referred me to Meade. I emailed customer service at Meade a week ago, but have not received any response yet except the usual automated reply. But the camera is working fine, so I guess the SYS LED that flashes continuously is normal.
If you look at the specs of a typical CCD sensor, the KAF8300 and the CMOS sensor, 1600MM, then the QE is very similar at 60%, the 183 is even better at higher than 80%. CMOS sensors have as good as if not better QE. Dark current is actually better for CMOS camera's, the 8300 is
Thanks for the comments Adrian! When I said CCD is more sensitive than CMOS, I was referring to the fact that readout electronics on each CMOS pixels blocked part of the light hitting the sensor, while CCD doesn't have this issue. I believe QE efficiency doesn't cover that part. So, the overall sensitivity might be on par for front illuminated CMOS and CCD, or it really depends on specific models. Of course, if you bring back illuminated CMOS into the discussion, I believe you're definitely right, CMOS is a no brainer:) btw, I have some friends using CCD and are generally happy with it, when I compare our integrated masters, the difference is really marginal.
@@bensastrophotography5915 Do you have evidence that the QE is measured without pixel electronics?
@@adrianphotovisions2308 I don't, but from the definition, it's the efficiency of the sensor converting photons into electrons, and to me, it makes no sense if they count the photons that don't even hit the sensor.
@@bensastrophotography5915 The QE is measured in a practical way, in other words, if there is a hidden area or there are microlenses, all these factors affect the quoted QE. I dont know how you could measure CMOS pixel QE without the electronics in it..
I did side by side comparisons when I switched from a QSI 683 with the 8300 CCD sensor to the ASI 1600MM with the same scope. The superiority, S/N of the CMOS camera was very evident, but not by a huge amount. CCD's still have a place and there are good camera's out there, but the technology of CMOS sensors has surpassed CCD's and continues to get better. CCD's havent progressed in the last 10 years, they have reached a limit.
I confirmed your point with a CMOS expert, you're totally right in the sense QE is a practical measurement. If 20% of the photons get blocked by electronics, and the sensor converted 80% of the photons it receives into electrons, then the QE should be 80%x(1-20%)=64%. Thanks again for sharing you thoughts!!
good video
New full frame monochrome cmos cameras coming out soon!!!!!
There's no comparison really. I've used them all and monochrome cooled camera give the best images by far no doubt. An $1000 cmos cam is going tp blow away any dslr period not even close. Yes even a $5000 canon. Quantum efficiency, read noise, quantization error, amp glow and bayer matrix the biggest reasons along with cooling.
Exactly! We've all been through DSLR days, that was tough :p
If I were to get a CMOS camera it will be coloured; Two reasons my light pollution where I am living is at level 6. And I am on a budget.
Good explanations, ty.