Michael Lofton Vs Orthodox Christianity
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
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Formula of Hormisdas: Papal Proof Text?
• Formula of Hormisdas: ...
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I'm going to go to a eastern orthodox church on Sunday and you where a big inspiration
Glory to God!
You won't turn back!
welcome to the family:)
Did u go? How was it?
@@evans3922 sadly my dad had to work and couldn't take me and my mom had to clean so we didn't have time and my parents think that two hours for church is long so they put the idea off :(
3 years ago I became Catholic from a secular background. I haven’t attended a Catholic Church in 2 months. I’ve been going to an Orthodox missions. Praise be to God!
@dvgmc lol no
Welcome home!
Glory to God !
@dvgmcthe Catholic Church has lost political power within the last few centuries, does that mean they are less correct?
I also became a Catholic 1 year ago until I found Orthodoxy. I've been attending my local Orthodox Church since the second Sunday of Great Lent. I don't plan on going back.
Became a Catechuman on Palm Sunday coming from Trad Cat world after about a year of study and prayer. I wish I could express the peace of mind and soul I have from this decision. It was a total mindf**k being a tradcat, and an absolute joy experiencing the richness of Orthodoxy, especially in the liturgy (which Orthodox do NOT mess around when it comes to holy week!)
Thanks for the inspiration, friend. I've been feeling for years TradCat is simply medieval larper cope and it's only a matter of time before the wolves at the Vatican stomp out the TLM entirely....
.... I've been riding the TradCat/Orthodox fence for years now but still haven't made the jump.
Same here. Was a TradCat myself for a while (even delved into Sedevacantism for a while) and the coping rots your brain.
A good TradCat news channel is "Return to Tradition".... everyday he's tracking more and more abysmal things coming from the top down at the Vatican. Straight heretical and evil stuff. His upcoming video today is "Heretic Bishops Admit the Plan for Synodality is to Turn the Church into a Democracy."
It's just not stopping. The writing is on the wall. The RCC will become the Anglicans. Then there will be "votes" on things like women priests, 🌈 stuff, etc... and, of course, all those results will lean far left/liberal. Anything traditional will be labeled "of the devil" (as "pope" Failness already has stated in so many words).
It's over. The Church at Rome must have been taken over not long after the Apostles' deaths.
I always found it interesting that Revelation/Apocalypse never mentions the Church at Rome.... only the Eastern Churches. And, of course, the description of the antichrist "church" and system always eerily matched that of the Roman Catholic Church. Something Protestants actually got right? The Nicolaitians... ???
Welcome Home. Ex-TradCat here, now Orthodox for over seven years. 1000% the right choice.
All of you should read "The Church and The Pope" by Robert Spencer if you haven't. Short and easy phenomenal book that a former Eastern Catholic wrote refuting the typical TradCath points. Might help some people you know who still are TradCaths or may even solidify your faith further.
Hey Kyle, I went to my first Divine Liturgy a few months ago, and it didn’t go very well. The people weren’t very welcoming however I knew not to judge orthodoxy based off that. Last weekend I went to a different Orthodox Church and I attended vespers and Divine Liturgy. And it was amazing; it was like something I had never experienced before. After months of searching for the truth God has revealed it to me. I can’t believe how disrespectful I was to the saints and the holy Theotokos in the past. Thank you for helping me along my journey into orthodoxy by unironically answering so many of my questions. God Bless ☦️
What does it mean people weren't welcoming at your first Holy Divine Liturgy? What did they do?
@@seraphim3r I walked in and had asked around for what I was supposed to do and the people told me “how do you not know already ? Are you dumb?” And I tried to talk to some people but they avoided me after the service.
@@sfappetrupavelandrei I walked in and had asked around for what I was supposed to do and the people told me “how do you not know already ? Are you dumb?” And I tried to talk to some people but they avoided me after the service.
I can't even make fun of Chelsea anymore now that they're above Man United
@@everyonesfavoritesejonghaha it’s been a struggle over the last 2 seasons but I’m so happy Chelsea are good again
It's funny that he's also an Eastern Uniate. Westerners do not understand that the Uniates, from their inception, were a purely political construct. It doesn't jive with traditional Latin or Byzantine doctrine.
My great-grandparents were Eastern Uniates in Transylvania, but only because you were oppressed in the Habsburg monarchy otherwise. The only way to celebrate the Byzantine rite without repression was to join the Uniates, who held entirely to Orthodox doctrine, but + Papacy. When Transylvania was governed by Romanians again, most of them went back to being Orthodox. It's historical contingency, not that the dogmas are reconcilable. They aren't.
Knowing he's eastern Catholic just makes him an even bigger tool if you ask me.
They treat the Unia like a quirky fun extra that Rome has. When it stands on the bodies of Orthodox Lay and Clerical Martyrs from more than 400 years.
@@acekoala457 it truly is a demonic thing
When I was looking into papism, Lofton helped me quickly turn the other cheek lol. His apologetic tactics are those of the Mormons. He’s very good at twisting history and vomiting white lies.
Thanks for sharing my video brother! Would love to chat sometime.
Yes! would love to collab sometime in the future (:
Orthodox Apple taking another W. Undefeated.
Orthodox Apple is 🅱️🅰️sed.
It's truly marvelous that the infamous Mormon joshua graham converted to orthodoxy and was transfigured into an apple. His skin is healed too. See, orthodoxy is where the miracles happen js lol jk please forgive my jesting lord.
Man, it's gotta be difficult being a Roman Catholic these days. God bless your work Kyle 🙏🔥
Yes. Yes it is. The unchanging 'truth' seems to be a *relative spectacle.
This video makes me so happy that I’m orthodox. Roman Apologists are doing a great job of turning Roman Catholics and Protestants back into their original true orthodox selves. Let’s thank them. Keep up the good work.
Baptized on Holy Saturday! You were a huge influence on my conversion to Orthodoxy!
1 view in 1 minute, so sad he fell off 😢
Settle down
Relax buddy it’s early
@@soupperson280r/woosh
@@L_Nasty714r/woosh
@@ObliviAcer/woosh not lest you be r/woosh'd
Pray for Michael Lofton's soul; he's leading people astray. Btw- You look so dapper in this video, Kyle! Love your content.
Thanks! God bless!
Michael loston feelings and secularism 💀
I got into an argument with Michael Lofton once. He just made an appeal to authority, said the Orthodox Church can’t be valid because we have patriarchs arguing with one another and no Pope to keep them all in line.
I was like yeah it’s just like with the Apostles arguing with each other at the council of Jerusalem, there was no Pope there either.
This is how it should be.
When you have a Kohen Gadol you end up blessing individuals of same sex couples and giving communion to abortionists and no one can object.
Orthodox Kyle strikes again ❤️🔥☦️🔥
I can never get enough of that based priest chastising the Pope. 5 cops had to hold him back lol.
PAPAAAAAA
Nice one Kyle. I always appreciate the fact that while you refute those in error, you also stress that we should pray for those persons or groups. This is the Way. Christ is risen!
I’ve been talking to Catholics, thanks for the post! God bless you Kyle!☦️
Babe kyle posted again!
Million of reasons to be ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN MADE BY JESUS CHRIST AND HIS APOSTLE ☦️✝️
Michael Lofton is just one of those Eastern Catholics that want to have their have their cake and eat it too.
Can we just end Lofton’s show at this point? I’m about to start my own channel just to take him down I cannot stand the incessant grifting and smugness.
I'd watch your channel. Go for it.
He is taking himself out. Big names are distancing themselves from him actively.
Finally a new video. I have been craving new videos from you
I noticed alot of quote mines from papal apologists- but don't give the full context
The word "anti" in antichrist does not mean someone who is going to be openly anti (against) Christ. That word "anti" in the original Bible language can actually mean "IN PLACE OF". So could the bible antichrist be someone who has actually put himself "in place of" Christ? Well, we have further Bible evidence to support this. In 1 John 2:18-19 it says that there were "many antichrists", who "WENT OUT FROM THE CHURCH". In other words, John is pointing to the fact that those "antichrists" were WITHIN THE CHURCH!! Not only that, but Paul in 2 Thess. 2:3-4 calls the man of sin the "son of perdition". Now there is only one other place in the Bible where the name "son of perdition" is used, and that is in John 17:12 talking about JUDAS! And what was Judas? A professing follower of Christ Jesus. Someone who deceived from WITHIN the "church".
"The leader of the Catholic church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers). The Pope is considered the man on earth who TAKES THE PLACE of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity." (John Paul II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 3, 1994).
"ANTI" - Christ = "IN PLACE OF" Christ!
I thought of that too. Vicar of Christ = AntiChrist.
God bless this channel
God bless you 🙏
Glory to God
i love your videos bro keep them up thank you for keeping me on my feet about catholicism
04:39
Pope from the beginning was the central person in Christianity and most church fathers wrote about papal and Roman supremacy over other churches.
Also let's hear what the council has to say:
"If anyone shall say that the Roman Pontiff hath the power of condemning, but not of decreeing, let him be anathema."
(Canon 11, Council of Constantinople, 869-870 AD)
04:43
We also have great saints, why not becoming carbolic?
About Teresa:
“I convert you to be a better Hindu, or a better Muslim, or a better Protestant, or a better Catholic, or a better Parsee, or a better Sikh, or a better Buddhist. And after you have found God, it is for you to do what God wants you to do.”
About John Paul:
In the time christian situation in Iraq was rare like protestant nit using KJB, christians weren't persecuted like in neighbouring and also Muslim countries, and what was even more rare (like babtists recognizing church fathers) is that they let pope in. In Islamic culture presents are really really Rare and guess what would happen if pope would not do as the organizers (Muslims) planned?
Ofc pope would be let go but think about normal christians living among Muslims who just learned that the most iconic person for Christianity just disrespected their book.
05:16
"If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).
Upon whom the church was build?
Interesting.
Tertullian (c. 155 - c. 240 AD)**:
- "Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called 'the rock on which the church would be built,' who also obtained 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven' with the power of 'loosing and binding in heaven and on earth'?" (*De Praescriptione Haereticorum*, Chapter 22)
Comment for the algorithm. Awesome video, thanks Kyle!
No salvation outside the Church is one of the most misunderstood phrases in Catholic theology.
Question (as an ex-Catholic ex-Christian drawn to Orthodoxy) if the pope has a primacy, then shouldn’t the Orthodox Church be United to the pope even if they don’t accept Papal Supremacy?
Rome was appealed to when there a was a need for a tie-breaker in a debate, like a respected older brother, not an appeal to a parent. First among equals, not head of state.
Hope that helped! 🙏🙂
From our point of view, the pope has left the Church (as anyone is free to do), so he no longer has primacy.
Thank you for sharing this video 🙏☦️
المجدُ لك يا رب المجدُ لك❤️🔥
Your channel is severely underrated man. Keep at it please. You’re doing really good work!
Question: Do you agree that monarchy is the ultimate form of government?
Shouldn't the Church be a monarchy? I struggle with this.
With christ as king, yeah. Not a monarchy with a head that is a fallible man.
A Call for Humility in Apologetics
Greetings Kyle, I've enjoyed watching your apologetics content, and I find it very insightful. I also come from a Roman Catholic background and am now Orthodox. However, we must remain vigilant, for the devil is cunning, and sometimes apologetics without discernment can lead to spiritual pride. Pride, in its various forms, is demonic.
I'll be praying for you, and please remember that Roman Catholics are our brothers and sisters in Christ. Theological debates, while sometimes necessary, can be dangerous as they can lead us to lose charity towards our neighbor. Remember, every person is important to Christ.
It is crucial to be humble on our spiritual journey and to remember that truth is not found solely in our own beliefs, but in love and respect for all people. Apologetics should serve to defend our faith with love and charity, not to impose it or create divisions.
When I read the Apostolic Tradition, Ante-Nicene Fathers, I come down Eastern Orthodox. But there are no Orthodox parishes anywhere close. So I became Anglo-Catholic.
Well, you should be able to make some sacrifices for the Truth. People died for the Orthodox faith. We could at least go farther to an Orthodox Church. Even if you don't attend weekly.
Try to go to an Orthodox parish and talk with the priest about your situation and see what you can do.
Hey Kyle, so, I've been brought up Catholic all my life (I'm 23 now), but recently I've been thinking that the best way to truly follow God is through Orthodoxy. Any chance you could suggest a good starting point or a book for me to dive into and start learning? Thanks
Watch this playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PL6eyVWFC0v8dRxtTvcdACuo3AOkvB9eb3.html&si=12NpBJnLJN3Z5a5n
Come visit a Church: orthodoxyinamerica.org/ and talk to a Priest
Reach out anytime!
God bless!
@@OrthodoxKyleI really appreciate the answer! Unfortunately here in my town Tucuman/Argentina, we only have one "Orthodox" church. I haven't had a chance to go yet, but I definitely will, I'm praying it's a good Church. Also, I'll study that playlist, thank you!.
Keep it up with the content, it's great.
God bless you!.
Hola hermano, tú necesitas leer las vidas de los santos ortodoxos y encontrar un padre espiritual ortodoxo en línea o contactar al sacerdote en Tucumán, preguntarle cosas. Recomiendo leer el Synarxarion, la Iglesia Ortodoxa de América tiene uno diario gratuito. ¡Dios los bendiga!
Checkmate! 💥
algo push btw your editings gotten better
thanks!
They only recently stopped the filioque. They were happy singing it until about 40 years ago. Vatican II wanted them to return to Eastern praxis as a tool for ecumenism.
04:04
You forgot about the part when it says "only when it is needed"
When we are dying for example.
Canon 844.2: “Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ’s faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid” (emphasis added).
Reason to be Orthodox, nothing has been changed, the main church has not committed heresy (vatican gay marriage situation)
archbishop elpidophoros - dudes a menace
Nothing has been changed? Then can you please explain why the Alexandrian Greek Orthodox Church has ordained two deaconesses?
@@jamesjacob4002
The actions of one Synod doesn't change what we believe.
I expect in the coming months for the other Synods to condemn these actions.
The "orthodox" can't even agree on who needs to be baptised.
@@Sam0Mahn dont get offended because youre catholic, the action of one doesn’t represent the action of everyone, for example, if a catholic says gay marriages should be blessed then that doesn’t represent the catholic churches decision, but unfortunately recently the catholic church does bless gay marriages and that represents the action of everyone, orthodoxy doesnt have that, but its the same faith in the end so no need to worry ☦️❤️✝️
I’m not a fan of Lofton, being uncharitable to those who want more tradition in the ordinary mass, but, Kyle, your “Church Fathers” segment starting at 5:19 was incredibly wrong on the Papacy:
*St. Ambrose -* “It is to Peter that he says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church’ [Matt. 16:18]. Where Peter is, there is the Church. And where the Church is, no death is there, but life eternal” (Commentary on Twelve Psalms of David 40:30 [A.D. 389]).
*St. Hilary -* “Blessed Simon, who after his confession of the mystery was set to be the foundation-stone of the Church, and received the keys of the kingdom of Heaven…This faith is the foundation of the Church; through this faith the gates of Hell cannot prevail against her” (On the Trinity, 6: 20, 37).
*St. Cyril -* “The venerable holy churches of the cities of Rome and Alexandria have always preserved concord, not only in the true and immaculate faith from the time the word of salvation was preached in them, but also in divine ministry. That is to say in both of them the foundation of faith was laid by the same man - we mean the blessed Apostle Peter, whose imitator in everything was the holy evangelist Mark - so that, whenever it happened that in times of uncertainty some councils of bishops were due to be held, *the most holy man who presided over the church of Rome used to delegate the most reverend archbishop of the city of Alexandria **_to take his place”_* (Collectio Avellana, pg 469)
*St. Cyprian -* “The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18-19]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. . . . If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).
*St. Augustine -* “If the very order of episcopal succession is to be considered, how much more surely, truly, and safely do we number them [the bishops of Rome] from Peter himself, to whom, as to one representing the whole Church, the Lord said, ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer it.’ Peter was succeeded by Linus, Linus by Clement. … In this order of succession a Donatist bishop is not to be found” (Letters 53:1:2 [A.D. 412]).
*St. Jerome -* “I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope Damasus I], that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark of Noah will perish when the flood prevails” (Letters 15:2 [A.D. 396]).
Why do you put Church Fathers in quotes? " incredibly wrong on the Papacy: "? How Exactly? I am not a fan of quote mines... Someone sent me those quotes just to show that Church Fathers do not have Vatican I view..
1. Read the books I talked about the video, Papalism, Papacy & The Orthodox, The Church & The Pope etc...
2. Rome and Catholic Scholars ADMIT that Vatican I / Papal Supremacy was not present? I showed the scholars in the video AND Alexandria and Cheiti Document make it clear
Please read those
This is a good article: uaocamerica.com/sources-of-orthodox-teachin/the-church-fathers-interpre.html
And I tell you...‘You are Peter, Rocky, and on this rock I shall build my Church, and the gates of the underworld will not conquer her. To you shall I give the keys of the kingdom. Whatever you bind on earth shall also be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth shall also be loosed in heaven’ (Mt 16:15-19). In Peter, Rocky, we see our attention drawn to the rock. Now the apostle Paul says about the former people, ‘They drank from the spiritual rock that was following them; but the rock was Christ’ (1 Cor 10:4). So this disciple is called Rocky from the rock, like Christian from Christ...Why have I wanted to make this little introduction? In order to suggest to you that in Peter the Church is to be recognized. Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter’s confession. What is Peter’s confession? ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ There’s the rock for you, there’s the foundation, there’s where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer (John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Vol. 6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327).
Hilary was consecrated bishop of Poitiers in 350 A.D. He is known as the Athanasius of the West due to his staunch stand for Nicene orthodoxy in opposition to Arianism. He died in 367-368 A.D. and was declared a doctor of the Church by pope Pius IX. His views on the rock of Matthew 16 are consistent with those of Augustine and Ambrose: A belief that the Son of God is Son in name only, and not in nature, is not the faith of the Gospels and of the Apostles...whence I ask, was it that the blessed Simon Bar-Jona confessed to Him, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God?...And this is the rock of confession whereon the Church is built...that Christ must be not only named, but believed, the Son of God. This faith is that which is the foundation of the Church; through this faith the gates of hell cannot prevail against her. This is the faith which has the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatsoever this faith shall have loosed or bound on earth shall be loosed or bound in heaven...The very reason why he is blessed is that he confessed the Son of God. This is the Father’s revelation, this the foundation of the Church, this the assurance of her permanence. Hence has she the keys of the kingdom of heaven, hence judgment in heaven and judgment on earth....Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter’s mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God (Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1955), On The Trinity, Book VI.36,37; Book II.23; Book VI.20.
Cyril’s views are very similar to those of Chrysostom. He identifies the rock of the Church to be Peter’s confession of faith and not the person of Peter himself. He separates Peter’s faith from Peter’s person, just as Augustine, Chrysostom and Ambrose did. All of the apostles according to Cyril are Shepherds and foundations. It is their teaching on Christ which is foundational and points to Christ as the true rock and only foundation upon which the Church is built. He interprets the rock of Matthew 16 to be Christ as well as Peter’s confession of faith. This amounts to the same thing as Peter’s confession points to the person of Christ. Cyril’s views are completely antithetical to those of the Roman Catholic Church. He is no proponent of the teaching of papal primacy. Michael Winter summarizes Cyril’s views in the following statements:
Cyril of Alexandria’s theology on the question of St. Peter resembles closely that of the Antiochean fathers. The life work of St. Cyril, for which he is renowned in the church, was his upholding of the orthodox faith against Nestorius, principally at the Council of Ephesus in 431. This preoccupation with Christological questions influenced his exegesis of the text of Matthew 16 in a manner which is reminiscent of the earliest fathers who were writing against Gnosticism. Although he alludes frequently to the text, it is the Christological application which interests him and the resultant picture of St. Peter is inconclusive. For instance when, commenting on the passage he writes: ‘Then he also names another honour: “Upon this rock I will build my church; and to thee will I give the keys of the kingdom of heaven.” Observe how he summarily manifests Himself Lord of heaven and earth for. . . He promises to found the church, assigning immovableness to it, as He is the Lord of strength, and over this He sets Peter as shepherd. Then He says, “And I will give thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven.” Neither an angel nor any other spiritual being is able to speak thus.’
The application to Peter of the title ‘shepherd’ is deceptive, since he applies it elsewhere to all the Apostles and it cannot therefore indicate a peculiar authority for Peter. It seems to have been his consistent opinion that the ‘rock-foundation’ of the church was Peter’s immovable faith. Although it seems a small matter to distinguish Peter’s faith from his person in the function of being the foundation of the church, it does appear that Cyril did, in fact, isolate St. Peter himself for that role and in this respect he is at one with the later Antiocheans...The school of Antioch (and those who were influenced by it) presents a conflicting set of opinions. St Chrysostom and some followers uphold the primacy of St. Peter, while St. Cyril of Alexandria and others deny it (Michael Winter, St. Peter and the Popes (Baltimore: Helikon, 1960), pp. 74-76).
It is significant that this Roman Catholic historian is forced by the evidence of Cyril’s writings to conclude that his use of the word shepherd as applied to Peter did not imply any peculiar authority to him and that he was not a proponent of Petrine primacy. In fact, that he actually denied it. He deals honestly with the facts. This cannot be said of the authors of Jesus, Peter and the Keys. They give selective quotations from this father, purposefully omitting those that are unfavorable to their position. There is no attempt at an honest assessment of what Cyril actually meant by the words that he used leading the reader to conclude that Cyril taught that Peter was the rock and was a supporter of a primacy of Peter in a pro-Roman, papal sense, neither of which is true. Cyril’s views are consistent with those of the other major fathers of the East and West which we have examined. Peter’s faith is the rock and foundation of the Church. It points to the person of Christ as the true rock and only foundation.
An examination of the writings of the fathers does reveal the expression of a consistent viewpoint, but it is not that of the Roman Catholic Church, as the documentation of the major fathers of the East and West in this article will demonstrate. This particular article is strictly historical in nature.
@@OrthodoxKyle I quoted your section of the video as part of the larger work, I just titled it, “Church Fathers”. You know I can more than make the same accusation of you “quote mining” in your video, as well.
It’s absolutely true that St. Peter’s revelation from the Father and confession of faith is essential, the Church is built upon St. Peter’s confession of faith. The error lies in separating St. Peter from his faith, though. It is only after St. Peter’s confession that Christ promises the keys to Peter. But he promises the keys and the power of binding and losing to Peter. Peter’s faith is absolutely needed, but it is still the faith of St. Peter, himself.
Here’s the Catechism, it doesn’t conflict with what the early Church Father’s said:
_Our Lord then declared to him: “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.” Christ, the “living stone,” thus assures his Church, built upon Peter, of victory over the powers of death. Because of the faith he confessed Peter will remain the unshakeable rock of the Church. His mission will be to keep his faith from every lapse and to strengthen his brothers in it (552)._
Can you please show where Vatican I contradicts on Sacred Doctrine or Dogma? Why are you appealing to authority with Rome/Catholic scholars when there’s far more scholars/theologians in Rome/Catholic Church that strongly disagree? I can put the foot on the other shoe for you and point out that your own theologians: Fr. Georges Florovsky (foremost theologians in 20th century Eastern Orthodox) thought Pope Agatho interlaces the primacy of Rome, and holds the CONFESSION OF FAITH. Or your renowned Orthodox theologian, Fr. Alexander Schmemann, writes on Papal supremacy of Hormisdas and the Eastern Churches (519), “"[.., characteristic of this eternal compromise with Rome was the signing of the Formula of Hormisdas by the Eastern bishops in 519, ending the thirty-year schism between Rome and Constantinople. The whole essence of the papal claims cannot be more clearly expressed than in this document, which was imposed upon the Eastern bishops." (The Historical Road of Eastern Orthodoxy, 241). Or another Orthodox theologian, Dr. Ed Siecienski, writes that the Formula [of Hormisdas and the
Eastern Churches (519)] was "one of the strongest affirmations of Rome's teaching authority ever accepted in the East." (The Papacy and the Orthodox, 132). I’ve plenty more eastern scholars and theologians admitting Papal supremacy/infallibility being claimed in the first millennia.
And I’ll comment on your quote of Augustine’s sermon. First, you should continue reading St. Augustine in P.4 where he clearly states that St. Peter is the shepherd of Christ’s sheep, and that He entrusted the Church, his members, to Peter. Also, in his earlier works, he says Peter is the rock. For example, in the Psalmus contra Partem Donati, he writes, "Count the priests even from the very chair of Peter / and in that order of the fathers, see who has succeeded to whom: / that is the rock which the proud gates of hell do not conquer." (ll. 238-240) Afterwards, however, he more often said that the rock was Christ, rather than Peter or Peter's confession. In the Retractationes, revisiting a statement that Peter was the rock in one of his lost works, he gives his reasons for having come to prefer the latter interpretation, but concludes, "the reader may choose which of these two notions is the more plausible." So he does not close the door on his earlier understanding of Peter as the rock, and neither does he seem to think there is any fault to be found with the doctrine he had based on this interpretation.
Here’s some books I recommend YOU reading, Kyle.
* Stickler, Alfons M. Review of Papal Infallibility: A Thirteenth-Century Invention? Reflections on a Recent Book, by Brian Tierney. The Catholic Historical Review 60, no. 3 (1974): 427-41. www.jstor.org/stable/25019575.
* Stickler, Alfons M. "A Rejoinder to Professor Tierney." The Catholic Historical Review 61, no. 2 (1975): 274-79. www.jstor.org/stable/25019678.
* Avray, D. L. d', and Innocent III. "A Letter of Innocent Ill and the Idea of Infallibility." The Catholic Historical Review 66, no. 3 (1980): 417-21. www.jstor.org/stable/25020865.
* Avray, D. L. d'. "Origins of the Idea of Infallibility: A Rejoinder to Professor Tierney." The Catholic Historical Review 67, no. 1 (1981): 60-64. www.jstor.org/stable/25021001.
* Tierney, Brian. "Papal Infallibility: A Response to Dr. d'Avray." The Catholic Historical Review 67, no. 2 (1981): 275-77. www.jstor.org/stable/25021082.
* Tierney, Brian. "Infallibility and the Medieval Canonists: A Discussion with Alfons Stickler." The Catholic Historical Review 61, no. 2 (1975): 265-73. www.jstor.org/stable/25019677.
What the sigma
cath bruh got destroyed
Micheal lofton the biggest papists
@JustinianTheGreat535 lol
Micheal Lofton is a prime example of somebody who has books and no answers.
Even before, when I was a Protestant interested in Catholicism, most of what he said either didn't make sense, or was easily falsifiable after 5 minutes of Google search.
There are good Catholic apologists out there (though I don't understand many of their positions). Lofton isn't one of them. I don't mean that in a judgmental way. Just as I see it.
Wow, those quotes from the Church Fathers are debilitating for the roman catholic view of papal supremacy.
Yep, I've shown those quotes to Catholics and the level of cope becomes unreal.
Great Video as always Kyle , it would be nice if you made a video about Mt.Athos (Άγιο Όρος) in the future ( there's couple of documentaries on yt ) !
Thanks be to the Orthodox Apple. Could you maybe do a video on William Albrecht (Patristic Pillars) at some point? 🙏
“Papism is actually the first and oldest Protestantism.” 😮💨
Wouldn’t that be the Jews?
This may be your best one yet about Catholicism! Keep up the good work, bro!
Roman Catholicism gives you lots of information about itself in the name. What i have been able to learn so far . . . It is the politics of the west that caused Rome into a heresy, which ended in a sad schism. Orthodox Church is the First, One, Prototypical, Apostolic Church.
papacy is a political structure
Okay Kyle, now that rookie mode is over with Michael … time to go to the boss level with Br. Peter Dimond
I will try and cover one day! They aren't even Catholic... they don't follow the Pope & Deny Vatican I....
Ubi Petrus: ua-cam.com/video/CMJ4kbhTgok/v-deo.htmlsi=UN8f6q4fC3awMFOF
& ua-cam.com/video/713jhGWpiv4/v-deo.html
MHFM is a Sedevacantist... They think Rome has defected.. and there is no more bishops? This contradicts Denzinger and Vatican I. ua-cam.com/video/8a79xmRsiQQ/v-deo.htmlsi=fpSSKd_d9sQU1vrK The Pope Vigilius Situation is a drop in the bucket, and one needs to consider Vatican I, Vatican II, the Forgeries, Recent Papal Documents etc Trent Horn refuted MHFM: ua-cam.com/video/ZDAd7Q1mZYg/v-deo.htmlsi=7hXGAFv_nX4bDz51
We need the Pope! But the Pope isn't actually the Pope.. This is a contradiction. Vigilius situation can and will always be debated, someone making a long video does not mean that it is true? And there are many other arguments against the Papacy.. People that HE cited in the video like Fr. Richard Price say that The East Rejected Papal Claims before the Schism... I have videos that cover this in my Catholic Playlist
Lmao
@@OrthodoxKyle I love ubi’s video on them but we need to draw more attention the these frauds and they won’t debate UBI .. I wonder why 🤔
Why would he waist his time on people who aren’t Catholic and run their own trailer park church
@@Joshua-ch2ij because many confused Catholics are going to Sedevacantism because of ignorance of the Catholic Church and they think people like Jay dyer refuse to debate Mhfm because they are scared (even know that’s ridiculous) I think the orthodox are more likely to convert Sedevacantists than regular Catholics .
What do I do if I am 13 and can’t drive myself to an Orthodox Church and forced to go to a non denominational church?
We talk about here: ua-cam.com/video/ucYmUGeZ4qs/v-deo.htmlsi=ahIvAaaRwB9ztYy0
Do Orthodox prayers at home, keep learning the faith, respect your parents. The Time will come when you can visit! God bless!
@@OrthodoxKyle Thanks for the advice.
You need to actually understand what outside the church means before saying "the church has always taught there is no salvation outside the church."
Michael loston feelings and secularism
Great video Kyle!
The Rise and Fall of the Papacy is a great book on the Roman See.
Can you name the author? I want to see if this book is in Russian
@@OwlStyle Craig Truglia
Pray for me. I am stuck between joining my local Serbian or Coptic Church
Both have been friendly and as an outsider I see both as holy
I like both but have a hard time choosing
The Coptic Church teaches monophytism which is considered heresy by both the Orthodox and the Catholic Churches. I would go with the Serbian one ☦️❤️
@@deacon6221 no? The dialogues between the east and the orient in the 90s said that they basically say the same thing, just worded differently.
@@WaylonElstad I wouldn’t go to a schismatic sect personally. I was just warning him. Until it’s declared in a synod that’s the view of the Church. I wouldn’t risk salvation.
Serbian because it is Orthodox!
@@dustinneely I decided, God willing, to join the Serbian Church
Learning more about the Romanovs has convinced me that they MUST be in heaven and so I must go EO
I am now grown in the faith to properly discern Christology and the recent Sunday of the Samaritan at the Well convinced me to go EO
I must give up my own judgement and humbly submit to the Church and, in a way, figure things out later
My Serbian community was very welcoming, moreso than the Coptic recently
12:52 from the beginning of chapter 11 he was talking about Israelites
02:35
Wrong.
By definition universal means "present or occurring everywhere." It can be different in some ways but what is important is that it's everywhere.
Early church in Spain needed to prohibit icons because of pagans and it wasn't schism, they were just trying to settle things down. What united christians from the beginning was communion with Rome and papal supremacy If found from the beginning starting in the bible when peter gathered bishops to discuss even tho they already have done it in council. Also during the council of Jerusalem we can see that peter was the one with the most power because he's vicary of Christ, he holds the Keyes.
I realized that this video is not ex cathrida when I saw that he hasn't put the link of those books on the description so I could just click on them instead of having the hard work of researching them on the internet. You will be excommunicated.
lmfao
Papal lawyer is the perfect title for Lofton. Completely lacking in any cognitive dissonance that comes from being a Uniate and defends the canons of the papacy with pride. May God remove his ignorance and pride.
Anyone know what video is featured at 17:25? Would love to see the full conversation.
What is the response of Catholics to the Church of Cyprus being recognized as autocephalous in the council of Ephesus and reaffirmed in trollo? How is that not a defeater?
Have you heard any response to that?
Very charitable and nuanced 👍
Wake up babe, it's time to watch a Kyle video(I am inevitably single).
The Ben Shapiro argument: speak rapidly and dismiss others
Why won't kyle ever actually debate Catholics?
I have done debates before but they are very time consuming to prepare for. On the Catholic issue, there are much better debaters like Jay Dyer, Ubi Petrus, David Erhan, Craig T etc etc. There was recently a good one recently where Orthodox position won: ua-cam.com/users/liveJb5ogZu3sMU?si=MO0MGecBDZOhtTB9
Can you make a video about spiritual attacks my mom doesn't want to turn orthodox because when she studied Catholicism she would get attacked at night she would hear whispers, horse's, dragging chains and there was a lot of paranormal stuff that happened to her my aunt who was into Catholicism left a lot of signs that her life was to end and eventually she died in a car crash her car was hit by a semi truck my mom says if the Catholic Church is not true then why did those things happen
praying for you guys
I'm Bulgarian and recently visited a local EO church. I talked to a priest, didn't necessarily agree with him on things but he was nice. Anyways, he gave me a book which was supposed to explain the Catechism in a simple language. As i was reading the introduction I found this following statement (I have translated it for you but i promise I haven't changed the meaning): "...The books of the Old Testament are divided into Canonical and Non-Canonical. The word "Canonical" comes from the Greek word "Canon", which means mark, rule. Canonical books means: books inspired by God, written, to serve as the purest source for the faith and morality, as the *only and unchanging rule for the spiritual life and salvation of man. But Non-canonical books are those, which were written by devout persons, but were not by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. *They are not a source of divine revelation and mandatory rules for spiritual life, but are a useful read, which encourages piety."
From this official Eastern Orthodox statement, I see the promotion of views that are condemned on this channel. What I'm talking about is the idea of Sola Scriptura (the traditional protestant view) and also the rejection of the inspiration of the Apocrypha (not sure if this channel actually advocates for the Septuagint).
I'm not sure who's in the wrong here: my official church, which is an autocephalous part of Eastern Orthodoxy or this channel, dedicated to supposedly Eastern Orthodox truth.
What are you talking about? Who promotes Sola Scriptura here?
Maybe you read it wrong? No way EO promote Sola. Are you visiting a schismatic church or something?
Is it the st philaret of moscow catechism? I know it says something like that.
The short answer is that's not exactly correct.
Traditionally Orthodox don't hold all of the books of the Bible on "equal" footing. There is a higharchy with the Gospel on top. In the OT there is a higharchy as well. Generally speaking the dutero cannon is lower than other parts of the OT let's say Isaah or the pentituch.
If it is st philaret of Moscow's catechism you are reading it's over all excellent that prob the only truely controversial part of it that I can think of.
If it is st philaret, hes not teaching sola scriptura, he very clearly didn't believe in that.
Huh? Lol, how did you get sola scriptura from Kyle?
@@TheRealRealOK I have stated it plainly. That is what is written. I'm not in a schismatic church. The Bulgarian Orthodox Church is the first Orthodox church to be founded after those in Antioch, Rome, Jerusalem and all the other ancient important cities. It is a book about the Orthodox Catechism, approved by the Patriarch here. Now, i'm not EO, but it is certainly surprising to see these ideas here. From my view, seeing this difference in the ideas between autocephalous churches really disproves the whole notion that EO is the one whole church.
@@dakolev You’re being disingenuous. If one person says one thing, it doesn’t mean the entire Church agrees. Individuals can be wrong. You’re not EO, so you have no idea how the Church works. EO have never been Sola Scriptura. Ever.
Michael Lofty' heights Lofton playing the piano like Meatloaf the Singer just like a Bat out of hell" 🔥 🦇 🍖 🥩
13:00
It doesn't matter because pope approved it later and also Nicea II confirms thst to hold ecumenical council you need Rome presence
Kyle is 🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿☦️☦️☦️☦️☦️☦️
Michael Loston reason & theology🤪
Azymes, purgatory, filioque, immaculate conception, baptism without Eucharist for infants, mandatory clerical celibacy, created grace, sacred heart... If that's infallibility why so many crazy errors from the Latins?
I always found it interesting that Catholics say the Bishop of Rome, aka the Pope, was always meant to be the final word above the other Bishops, because God created Israel to be lead by a King, the Church is the Kingdom of God on earth, the Kingdom needs a King, and since Peter’s faith was the foundation, Peter’s position as Bishop of Rome should be considered as that of a King above all others. interesting? Because God created Israel with judges and did not want Israel to be run by a King. The Lord laid out the negatives of having a King, but the Israelites didn’t care and insisted they needed a King, just like everyone around them, so God gave them Saul .
Kyle, what do you think of Eastern Catholism? It is quite similar to Holy Orthodoxy in many ways, but unfortunately they still follow the heretic pope. Pls make a video about that. Christ bless you☦️💪
@1:36 thats UA-camr rey Gregory Santos calling in. He was an Orthodox UA-camr who unfortunately apostotized to Rome
Orthodox Apple needs a beard to match Kyle's Orthobeard. God bless and Christ is Risen. ☦️
Honestly it seems pretty clear that the idea of papal infallibility is incorrect, especially with so many conflicting teachings from various popes. But to maintain power, the Catholic Church has to keep pushing forward with the idea because the alternative (the bishop of Rome returning as the first among equals) would mean relinquishing a great deal of power and influence. It seems that ever since the great schism Rome’s primary goal has been centralizing and consolidating that power.
14:10
So when filioque was brought to ecumenical council it wasn't that big deal?
So if someone would say on ecumenical council that Mary is nor morher of God they would also dont care becusee "they hsve more important things to do"
Its stupid argument.
"If anyone shall say that the Roman Pontiff hath the power of condemning, but not of decreeing, let him be anathema."
(Canon 11, Council of Constantinople, 869-870 AD)
8:39 Kyle, you have good taste in music.
I miss the beard already
Funny how they never mention blacherney, where Rome signs on and rejects the filioque for a long time
4:49 Kyle I also recommend to add father Daniel Sysoev in this list. Maybe you heard about this martyr
Hey Kyle I’m Catholic do you think the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church will ever reunify and if so what do you think would have to happen in order for that I mean obviously the questions of papal infallible will come up as well as the filoque and stuff but I mean what could bring both parties to the table and begin to dialogue?
If the Catholic Church submits then yes I think so
@@Brezel647 submits to what ? Basically you want them to adhere to what you want I asked what could initiate a dialogue
At this point in time not legitimately but someone like Bartholomew might push something that is false
At this point, it is hard to have hope in any form of unity. Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are too different to find a middle ground.
If it rolls back to the 9th century in Ecclesiology, Theology and dissolves the Uniates then perhaps union would be possible.
Χριστός Ανέστη
such an elegant defence!☦️
I believe Orthodoxy is the true church, however we'd be better served if people like Lofton would deliver the gospel instead of all these battles between schismatics and others
Great job
what's the name of the song Kyle uses from 5:16
Roi instrumental, best found on soundcloud
@@smiles6544 Thanks
You would think lofton would take a hint considering even his own church brothers hate him
Great job Kyle ☦️☦️☦️
Beard was a free trial.
(I know this was recorded a while ago).
haha
Brother in Christ tell me what your source is regarding st. Pope Gregory the Great from the 6th century I beg you
Kyle, or anyone with any experience in this, I'm interested in Orthodoxy and like you said in one of your vids I want to start small so looking for a church I can start with vespers & liturgies. My closest church is Ethiopian Orthodox, from what I understand you'd consider them out of communion but NOT heretical? So you accept their liturgies but not their communion? England doesn't have a strong Orthodox tradition & neither does Nigeria so I'm stuck choosing between a Greek Orthodox or Ethiopian Orthodox church, the Greek I'm assuming you'd consider perfect and the Ethiopian only half perfect?
Oriental "Orthodox" are NOT the same as Eastern Orthodox. The Ethiopian church is Oriental and follow the miaphysite heresy. I attend a Greek church, but I have absolutely no Greek heritage or ancestry (and I am not fond of their ethnic foods or traditions). It is, however, a part of the original Church (like Antiochian, Russian, Serbian, etc.) and thus I make the sacrifice to go there. Hope this helps.
@@bedeodempsey5007 thanks, I was baptised Christian (but raised as a do unto others, turn the other cheek, that's all salvation needs type), it's only recently like most I've been asking spiritual questions that led me to this issue. Miaphysite means believing the Trinity but that God is both divine & human in 1 nature right? Why's that a contentious point within Orthodoxy?
@@aisosaihama miaphysite believes that Christ has one divine will whereas Eastern Orthodox believe He has a human will and a divine will, since He is fully man and fully God without confusion. Miaphysite also leads to monothelatism (one will, typically divine to the exclusion of the human will).
@@bedeodempsey5007 okay so it's almost like Eastern Orthodox really emphasises the "completeness of God" by "covering all the bases" of his nature, i.e. 1 God in 3 persons, blessed trinity with 2 natures, both divine & human? Anything that denies that commits some sort of heresy, either directly or indirectly but heresy all the same??
@@aisosaihama close, but only God the Son, Jesus Christ, is fully God and fully human. As the scripture says, "narrow is the way to salvation" Matt. 7:14, while "broad is the way to destruction" Matt. 7:13. Doctrine and dogma are actually quite important.
Lofton: “to put a long story short orthodoxy copied us“
ME: “dude you run a Theology channel give me the long version”
Anyone know the song near the end around 21 minutes