Super duper useful video Peter!!!! I have been on the struggle bus with work offsets all day long today and this video was just the ticket off that ride.
Peter, What a really clear and concise tutorial 👏👏👌 I set my Haimer tool length by using gauge blocks to mimick the trigger height of my Pioneer TT100 toolsetter, then set the Haimer trigger point to those gauge blocks. Your ‘master tool’ system seems far more reliable Regards Robert PS I haven’t forgotten about our hookup..... I’ve been a bit crook ( sick). Will hookup next month 😎
Great information Peter. I have an X7 on the way and this is the missing link to my jump from Path Pilot to Syntec (maybe different key strokes but same theory as your Siemens). Thank you so much for putting this information out there.
Nice video, thanks. I would argue that using a master tool is only needed for the following reasons: 1) it provides a solid, precision ground reference to calibrate the tool setter sensor diameter as measured by the machine motion. This will be needed only to measure tool diameter. 2) it provides a length reference for measuring tools outside the machine. All tools measured outside of the machine would be measure relative to the ref tool length. 3) it allows setting the analog heimer probe on the machine, since it needs to be measured after some tip travel. Now if one does not have a heimer and one does not measure tools externally and one does not not measure tool diameter with the tool setter, a ref tool is not needed. All the tool length offsets do is create a relationship between all measured tools, that relationship is independent from the actual distance to the spindle nose or any other reference.
Yes this makes sense however the other major benefit is being able to use the master tool to relocate your tool setter in Z after a crash, and not have to remeasure all your tools. This has helped me a couple times already. I guess I could also just work harder on it crashing, haha. I never thought about using the master tool as a reference for offline measurement but I don’t think that would really work on a single point contact spindle? You would need some type of taper to sit in for measuring and I feel like it would be hard to have the tool fit the exact same as it does in the actual machine?
Regarding the offline case, yes I was thinking of a taper for the tools to sit in, all we need is to keep the relationship between all tools. But you are right that there would always be small variations. So let’s scrap that use case. All in all, and the reason why I made a comment, is that I have a hard time convincing myself to use a ref tool. Actually I just setup one up last week for the sake of measuring the tool setter diameter from the machine motion point of view, but for length, just did not seam worth while. However I do see your point now with the crashes. Indeed if the tool setter tip will now give different readings for the same physical location it becomes impossible to maintain a correct relationship for new tool length measurements, relative to previously measured tools. Yes agreed.
Awesome video. Does the tool setter allow you to load all the tools in the carousel and automatically probe each one. Or do you need to initiate for each tool. Cheers
I’ve got a program that will auto measure whatever tool is in the spindle, not all 12. That would be a single MDA call with a for loop though. One other thing is you need to have the length in the table somewhat close to the tool length.
Nice explanation of how all those offsets are linked together. However from my understanding its absolutely not necessary to measure the length of the master tool exactly, basically one could just enter any number for the length of the master tool. It would of course make sense to have this somewhere close to the actual length to have the resulting measurements somewhat readable to the human mind ;-) As long as you never change the length of the master tool there is no need to have it hardly linked to a point on the spindle. As you are never able to find the exact same point on your spindle in the future you don't have a chance to remeasure the length of the master tool in the future anyway. Basically in your case you could just have set the length of the master tool to 87.000 and you would be good to go. The 0 point would move to somewhere inside your spindle, but as you will never need this point in the future it wouldn't make a difference.
Yes this definitely makes sense. However for the few minutes it takes, it would save you from re measuring all your tools in the event that you did have or want to change the master tool in the future. But it’s also true that if you went to measure a new master tool you wouldn’t likely pick the exact same spot on the spindle nose so it could be put a tiny bit, so again maybe there is no point in measuring it exactly. Thanks for pointing that out
Hi Mate, Where did you get the english manuals for the TTC200 and the Pioneer Probe? I'm trying to nut out how it all works on my X7 now. Cheers, Jason.
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 They are now. I uploaded them. What I needed more was the software manual for each to understand the scripts and variables. Thank you for your video. It helped me understand what's going on. Hopefully will setup the Pioneer Probe today.
Thanks for the nice explanation. BTW, I'm considering a Syil X7. A question going back to you original machine delivery: how did you offload the machine from the delivery truck?
Super duper useful video Peter!!!! I have been on the struggle bus with work offsets all day long today and this video was just the ticket off that ride.
I’m glad you found it useful!
Peter,
What a really clear and concise tutorial 👏👏👌
I set my Haimer tool length by using gauge blocks to mimick the trigger height of my Pioneer TT100 toolsetter, then set the Haimer trigger point to those gauge blocks.
Your ‘master tool’ system seems far more reliable
Regards
Robert
PS I haven’t forgotten about our hookup..... I’ve been a bit crook ( sick). Will hookup next month 😎
Great information Peter. I have an X7 on the way and this is the missing link to my jump from Path Pilot to Syntec (maybe different key strokes but same theory as your Siemens). Thank you so much for putting this information out there.
I’m glad that you find it useful. It takes a lot of time to make even a poor quality video like this.
Nice video, thanks. I would argue that using a master tool is only needed for the following reasons: 1) it provides a solid, precision ground reference to calibrate the tool setter sensor diameter as measured by the machine motion. This will be needed only to measure tool diameter. 2) it provides a length reference for measuring tools outside the machine. All tools measured outside of the machine would be measure relative to the ref tool length. 3) it allows setting the analog heimer probe on the machine, since it needs to be measured after some tip travel. Now if one does not have a heimer and one does not measure tools externally and one does not not measure tool diameter with the tool setter, a ref tool is not needed. All the tool length offsets do is create a relationship between all measured tools, that relationship is independent from the actual distance to the spindle nose or any other reference.
Yes this makes sense however the other major benefit is being able to use the master tool to relocate your tool setter in Z after a crash, and not have to remeasure all your tools. This has helped me a couple times already. I guess I could also just work harder on it crashing, haha.
I never thought about using the master tool as a reference for offline measurement but I don’t think that would really work on a single point contact spindle? You would need some type of taper to sit in for measuring and I feel like it would be hard to have the tool fit the exact same as it does in the actual machine?
Regarding the offline case, yes I was thinking of a taper for the tools to sit in, all we need is to keep the relationship between all tools. But you are right that there would always be small variations. So let’s scrap that use case. All in all, and the reason why I made a comment, is that I have a hard time convincing myself to use a ref tool. Actually I just setup one up last week for the sake of measuring the tool setter diameter from the machine motion point of view, but for length, just did not seam worth while. However I do see your point now with the crashes. Indeed if the tool setter tip will now give different readings for the same physical location it becomes impossible to maintain a correct relationship for new tool length measurements, relative to previously measured tools. Yes agreed.
Awesome video. Does the tool setter allow you to load all the tools in the carousel and automatically probe each one. Or do you need to initiate for each tool.
Cheers
I’ve got a program that will auto measure whatever tool is in the spindle, not all 12. That would be a single MDA call with a for loop though. One other thing is you need to have the length in the table somewhat close to the tool length.
Nice explanation of how all those offsets are linked together.
However from my understanding its absolutely not necessary to measure the length of the master tool exactly, basically one could just enter any number for the length of the master tool. It would of course make sense to have this somewhere close to the actual length to have the resulting measurements somewhat readable to the human mind ;-)
As long as you never change the length of the master tool there is no need to have it hardly linked to a point on the spindle. As you are never able to find the exact same point on your spindle in the future you don't have a chance to remeasure the length of the master tool in the future anyway. Basically in your case you could just have set the length of the master tool to 87.000 and you would be good to go. The 0 point would move to somewhere inside your spindle, but as you will never need this point in the future it wouldn't make a difference.
Yes this definitely makes sense. However for the few minutes it takes, it would save you from re measuring all your tools in the event that you did have or want to change the master tool in the future. But it’s also true that if you went to measure a new master tool you wouldn’t likely pick the exact same spot on the spindle nose so it could be put a tiny bit, so again maybe there is no point in measuring it exactly. Thanks for pointing that out
Hi Mate,
Where did you get the english manuals for the TTC200 and the Pioneer Probe? I'm trying to nut out how it all works on my X7 now.
Cheers,
Jason.
They should be uploaded on the Syil users Facebook group.
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 They are now. I uploaded them. What I needed more was the software manual for each to understand the scripts and variables. Thank you for your video. It helped me understand what's going on. Hopefully will setup the Pioneer Probe today.
Thanks for the nice explanation. BTW, I'm considering a Syil X7. A question going back to you original machine delivery: how did you offload the machine from the delivery truck?
For mine I rented a forklift to unload it from the truck. I had to get expended forks to make it work though.
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 Great. Thanks for the info. I may have to do the same.
Having a known position does make it a bit easyier.
does the controller has a probing Application installed standard
No the 808D doesn’t. 828 and 840 do I think.