false. it would be a trademark, NOT a copyright, and trademarks can be renewed. not only that, but within British law there's a few specific exemptions from copyright expiration, most notably Peter pan with all the provides going to a children's hospital. also, this would not be fake news, it would be misinformation. check yourself before you wreck yourself next time.
TheSonTendo AFAIK a *green* cross is the most widely used symbol for pharmacies in the real world. I think it is only in computer games where a red cross symbol has been used for health packs and in fact now that I think of it that may even be specific to shooters. Could well be that Wolfenstein started it. Games in other genres commonly use the red heart symbol.
the red cross that is trademarked does not extend all the way to the edges however, THAT is the major difference. heck, it's actually based off of the swiss flag. from the british red cross's website "The red cross emblem is an inversion of the Swiss flag, which shows a white cross on a red background. This recognises the historic connection between Switzerland and the original Geneva Convention of 1864. "
he's saying that this is a waste of the organization's resources that could be spent helping people, not on lawyers sending emails saying you can't use a certain symbol
The key point being 'in a war zone'. Obviously, being a non-medical soldier or otherwise in a war zone and using the red cross is despicable and constitutes a war crime. If people did this the enemy would begin firing upon people with the cross and endanger people there solely to provide medical care. This is not a war zone - it is not even a real location. This seems petty and designed to get some press, which seems below the Red Cross.
like wtf. Red crosses in videogames are honestly free advertisement for your first aid, It honestly teaches kids what medical supplies could look like. why attack the devs!?
like he said in the video they werent "attacked", had they refused to change it the red cross probably wouldnt have taken any drastic action, while it IS a legal problem its even more so an ethical issue
its not an ethical issue red-cross is associated with "medical" its a loose link but its there. its also the function of the red cross : help in case of threat to life. they are just strong arming people like any other gov, organisation and pretty much every group of individual that exist on this planet ... it will backfire eventually.
Will Brown It doesn't imply aid, its the Red Cross's symbol Just like the Apple logo, does the Apple logo really imply an apple (the fruit) or Apple Inc.
Mohammed Ayman H It shouldn't be on first aid kits as the international standard is white cross on green background. J&J company managed to hijack the emblem in 19th century in USA before the ARC managed to get its act together and they are only who has right to use it in medical devices outside of military. Even the RC societies have to put their name next to the emblem if they have FA kits. ARC is a scumbag and sells FA kits with their emblem (the RC emblem + text American Red Cross).
How much does an email cost? They're not hunting them down. As they stumble upon them, they inform the devs about the rules. So far, no game dev has ever been brought to court for misuse of the Red Cross, but many have been informed about the law. If they were spending money to hunt them down, every single game with the cross in it would have gotten a very legal-sounding email instead, and those who insist to use it anyway would have gotten served with a lawsuit. I've probably spent more time and energy on this very comment than was spent on the email to the devs...
I get why they want to censor it but why, if it degrades your logo/company then yes by all means. Most of the red crosses used in video games are meant for aid
The emblem means "DO NOT SHOOT AT" it doesn't mean help here. Many lives depend on people knowing true meaning of the emblem and this discussion here and elsewhere proves that misconception is large.
The misconception is only a misconception among the civilian population. A misconception that will lead to no harm. These are meanings that are taught to those who it will affect. Which is pretty much anyone with even the slightest chance of being out in the field. They also only affect those who follow the G.C. anyways. Having a Red Cross represent Aid in a videogame will not lead to the ruthless slaughter of field medics. If people honestly believe it will, they might need to remove those tinfoil hats and think rationally about the situation before jumping to obscene and irrational conclusions.
This is really dumb, as if seeing a red cross in a video game deminishes the meaning of it in real life, do they think gamers are completely braindead?
Musou Tensei As time goes on, it does. Did you know band-aids were originally a brand name? You didn't? Same with a majority of people. They failed to defend it and it became a generic name, so they lost their hold over it.
Its meaning has ALREADY diminished through rampant misuse. The red cross symbol NEVER stood for just ANY medical aid provided by just ANYONE, it specifically refers to aid from the American Red Cross.
Actually, Band-Aid is still a brand name and very much trademarked. Massive popularization of a product or service usually ends up in common language anyway, like saying "Coke" instead of "cola", so it's understandable that an organization like the Red Cross would want to defend their trademark. That being said, the Red Cross is a non-profit and while it's understandable that they would want to retain the trademark, it's been so historically ubiquitous that it's honestly a moot point.
+Tempora158 Red Cross in international, not just American. It is forbidden to use that logo anywhere in the world without the permission from Red Cross.
The meaning of red cross emblem is defined in Geneva Convention and it is "DO NOT SHOOT AT". The convention also states that only legal users are military medical services and red cross movement, which can use it in identifying their people and possessions. The Geneva Convention also states that all countries bound by it have to incorporate these into their legislation. There is basically only one other legal use for the emblem, it is by Johnson & Johnson first aid equipment as they "stole" the symbol in 1800's between founding of global Red Cross movement and ratification of the treaty by USA.
@@frank_calvertwell Egyptian pegans do still exist, just rarely. However a more common group is the Coptic Christians an Egyptian sect of Christianity that is highly persecuted.
@@CM-di1oz but they don't have any link to the egyptian pantheists that made the symbol, much has been lost due to time. also coptic christians seem to use a different symbol
I legitimately feel having red crosses everywhere is actually *beneficial*. It allows kids to learn that a red cross symbol means "medicine" or "help"; something that could be extremely useful in cases of emergency.
"It allows kids to learn that a red cross symbol means "medicine" or "help"" No. The part of the reason why the Red Cross doesn't like their symbol used like this is specifically because it can give the *false* impression that it stands for medical care in general. That is *not* what the symbol is supposed to communicate. That you were under this misbelief is an indication that there is a reason why the Red Cross doesn't want its symbol to be used in this way in games. What the symbol is supposed to communicate (among other things) that anything bearing it has a special protected status under the Geneva Convention and is basically never a valid military target. I think it might be OK to use the symbol in games if e.g. you either couldn't shoot at anything with the symbol on it or at least doing so would be clearly labelled as a war crime.
@@seneca983 "What the symbol is supposed to communicate (among other things) that anything bearing it has a special protected status under the Geneva Convention and is basically never a valid military target." I think this is the problem here. We should be at this point make it international law that ANY kind of hospital/treatment facility that would bear such a symbol should never be a valid target for military operations.
@@Lancor84 "We should be at this point make it international law that ANY kind of hospital/treatment facility that would bear such a symbol should never be a valid target for military operations." Hospitals (and anything else) bearing the Red Cross symbol already *is* not a valid military target under current international law.
@@Lancor84 That's the point of the symbol. _Current_ international law says that medical facilities and personnel are to be respected and protected. The symbol can go on people/things that are there to provide medical aid. So military medical personnel are able to use it. The Intl. Red Cross obviously can too. It is "we're here to help, so don't f*ck with us: the symbol" under current international law.
@@seneca983 The American Red Cross sells first aid kits with red crosses on them, so first aid and the Red Cross go hand in hand. The Red Cross as established in the Geneva Conventions isn’t learned until they’re older. I don’t know if the British Red Cross sells first aid, so I understand why it’d be treated more carefully there. American Red Cross also sells keychain with red crosses on them. Maybe someone should go after them for breaking the convention.
A tick or cross in that context isn't reasonably going to be mistaken for a logo. (Otherwise I'd be more worried that drawing a tick in a certain style might incur the legal wrath of Nike..)
Pretty much, because apparently, they copyrighted a "Colored Shape" as their logo. I'm going to apply for a copyright on "Red Octagon's", then I can get royalty on every stop sign :D I'm a friggen genius...
Mostlyharmless1985 Looked up "First aid kit". This was the 3rd image. Try again. modernsurvivalblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trauma-shears-for-first-aid-kit.jpg
Yuki Nitta Does it surprise you that someone else might make the same mistake as was described in the video? The symbol for first aid is defined in ISO 7010 as a white cross on a background of certain approved colours.
Real first aid kits don't use the International Red Cross logo except for Johnson and Johnson who was grandfathered in the the us formally adopted the treaty and added the special trademarks to the code.
Nope, in court their claim wont hold up for they have not defended their trademark ever, and it became commonly used. The issue is the costs of the case would bankrupt an indi dev. That is why Disney for example are so zealous with their trademark lawsuits.
It's not a trademark issue. It's from the Geneva Convention saying that a red cross should only be used by members of the Red Cross, a way of clearly communicating to all sides, "Hey, shooting me is a war crime, don't" This includes medical personnel on the battlefield. So basically, Prison architect can't throw a red cross on anything medical in a civilian context because a red cross would not be found there in real life but Battlefield can use a red cross for it's field medics because they would use them in real life.
It is not a plus sign, it is a inversion of colors of Swiss flag and it is protected by international treaties called Geneva Conventions which demand all countries bound by it include the legal protection of the emblem in their legislation. Relevant section of UK law (note that it is not copyright, it is specific law) www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/5-6/52/section/6
Sebastian Hahn Have fun trying to prove that in court. Plus sign has thin arms while Geneva cross has constructs of five squares arranged in cross shape Relevant uk law: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/5-6/52/section/6 Relevant part of the Geneva conventions, First 1949 Geneva Convention articles 38, 53 and 54: www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/emblem-ihl-011108.htm
lol its so funny how the Red Cross diminishes their own brand daily with the "administrative expenses" bullshit but yet seeing a red cross as a means of recovering health is the real black mark
Melvin. Unfortunately they don't have any social media accounts but here's their personal YT channel if you're interested: ua-cam.com/users/CSPCantStopPlaying
They are not after the money, they want people know the true meaning of the emblem, which is: DO NOT SHOOT AT. The main function of the emblem is to protect military medical services in time of crisis. As you can read from here the misconceptions about the emblem is overwhelming and it can lead to deaths if shit hits the fan.
Alright shit biscuit you keep saying that it being used as a general medical symbol will somehow diminish the military medical meaning. PROVE IT!!!!!!!
This is ridiculous. The red cross emblem has become a universal symbol for medical aid and help. In fact, that is why the symbol was originally created. In times of war, despite language barriers, it was meant to be a universal symbol easily recognized by soldiers and officers. If an enemy soldier was seen heading across a field, it was understood that he was off limits to the other side. A medic, simply aiding the wounded. Not a soldier about to open fire. That's what the big white circle with the red cross on his helmet was for. Or, the white arm band with the red cross on it. To claim copyright ownership of the symbol is petty as Hell, even if the cease & desist letters were written in an almost friendly tone,
Normally, I would agree with you as I usually despise theft of intellectual property, including trademarked and copyrighted symbols. But, not this time. The fact that such a symbol, based on how and why it was created in the first place, is indeed copyrighted and trademarked; is straight up bullshit. I call it as it is. There needs to be exceptions. I can't think of one more blatant than the international symbol of medical aid/help. Military advisors created the symbol. Not the Red Cross foundation.
what about movies that use the symbol without permission? what about tv shows that use the symbol without permission? what about books that use the symbol without permission? what about comics that use the symbol without permission? what about political cartoons that use the symbol without permission? what about board games that use the symbol without permission? what about music videos that use the symbol without permission?
WHY GAMES?! Movies get away with violence, sex and red crosses! TV series get away with the same thing! Novels get away with the same thing! Comic books, literature, everything gets away with it! WHY NOT GAMES?!
This is all really stupid. First of all, the Red Cross doesn't own that symbol, no more than Gene Simmons owns the $ symbol. Secondly, that symbol has been used in other forms of media THOUSANDS of times and yet they don't seem to complain about that. Thirdly, symbols change over time and across cultures (as skull & crossbones no longer signify cemeteries, and the peace-sign no longer applies exclusively to nuclear disarmament) . GET OVER IT!
Andi Rain All countries which have signed Geneva Conventions are required to protect the emblem at all times including peace time. You really should study before shouting.
The symbol of a red cross predates the existence of the International Red Cross by thousands of years. The Geneva convention only applies to military behavior. Take a look at the flag of England and try suing them.
The Geneva conventions apply at all times to countries which signed onto them. There are clauses that specifically state they relate to military actions, War and other legal terms: this is not limited
That is just sad. You seriously feel oppressed because your videogames can't have a copywritten symbol in it? Every law has a reason behind it. This law that takes away a couple pixels in a sprite or needs a texture/color change also keeps developers developing entire video games in the first place. No real fucking point in developing games if your neighbor literally just copy/pastes it and sells it for $5 cheaper, huh?
You'd think that Red Cross would be interested in getting young gamers familiar with their symbol and associate it with something positive. This is just a moronic and paranoid practice :/
But most of these instances don't educate young gamers about the meaning of the symbol but rather do the opposite. The symbol isn't supposed to mark first-aid in general. Rather, it e.g. marks non-combatant medical staff, etc. as not valid military targets.
@@cibo889 I disagree. If you can target medics in the game just make them wear some other symbol than the Red Cross. A minor symbol change should hardly ruin a game.
@@cibo889 I didn't mean to suggest *adding* such rules (if they're not a part of the dev's vision) but rather to only use the Red Cross symbol if such rules happen to be in place. Otherwise some other symbol can be used.
@@cibo889 "Why tho?" The cost of not using the Red Cross symbol is utterly trivial. There are other health care symbols, like caduceus, that don't suffer from this problem.
a "legal issue" instead of a censorship one, is censorship by another name. id argue that if it exists in real life, you should be allowed to use it in a game that is based on a real life setting, even an exagurated one like post apocolyptic. most companies would PAY to have their logo associated with something popular. all red cross would have to do is educate people on what the symbol means and its history, when they censor it like this, people remain ignorant. who does that help?
"most companies would PAY to have their logo associated with something popular" Actually company logos might be protected by e.g. copyright or trademark laws and you might not able to legally use them without permission. The Red Cross symbol has a stronger protection. "all red cross would have to do is educate people on what the symbol means and its history, when they censor it like this, people remain ignorant" It's better for people to remain ignorant than to learn the wrong facts from games as the symbol is almost never used correctly in games.
I have a razer keyboard. I keep it green most of the time. Now ill just take a look at my "+" button, ok, now i will press the left corner button which says "color". The plus is now red. Oh my god what have i done? How much years do i have to spend in jail now?
You realize this isn't really about money, right? If you payed attention, this is the Geneva Convention we're talking about. Papers in response to a fucking war. Violating them technically makes you a war criminal. By that standard, having an email politely asking you to stop and change the logo is pretty goddamn tame.
Andrew Kaser but how do papers meant to discern what is and isn't good behavior in war apply to video games? The whole clause in the Geneva conventions about the symbol is simply to establish a symbol that everyone agrees not to shoot at because that is a dick move. And it also states that, in war, it is illegal to put that symbol on combat units that are not giving medical aid. So how can that be cited as a reason to stop using it in a context outside of real life war?
I'm not saying that the Geneva Convention or the red cross are in the right here, just stating the facts. It wouldn't really matter what you or I have to say on the matter: We could argue all day about what is correct, and which way you can or can't use the red cross to keep its meaning intact. After all, it is just a video game, and people know the difference. But at the end of the day, the papers will win, because this isn't just some corperation with money we're talking about; this is the Geneva Convention. This is war crime territory. This is you VS the actual governments of the world. You can try to argue with them or change their minds, and maybe you're right. But until you, or someone else takes this to the supreme court and gets shit changed, you're going to have to follow what they say; Unless being a literal war criminal isn't a big deal for you. You might not like it. I don't like it. Hell, I don't even think the government or the red cross likes it. But that's the world we live in.
Because it doesn't represent first aid, It represents the Red Cross. The Red cross, as an entity, has a legally recognized state that means attacking anything bearing the icon is a defacto war crime. It is a symbol of protection, not healing: The reason for this is the Red Cross often provides life saving 1st aid, but also provides protection for refugees, diplomats on peace brokering deals and investigating the conditions of prisoners of war. In the past certain individuals have used its well known status to allow them to infiltrate spies, steal information and attack enemies, after this the icon was agrred to be sole domain of those working directly for the Red Cross and that it was not considered to be a public symbol.
I don't see the correlation between a symbol in a video game representing health/healing and real life war crimes. It's a _symbol,_ after all. And not the most original one. You could compare that to a mundane word or phrase.
blitzball420 other than the fact a mundane word or phrase is not protected by international laws stating it cannot be used by anyone without authorization There is a fundamental misunderstanding people are making, you are thinking the Geneva conventions rules only apply to war, it doesn't. yes there are clauses relating to war and war crimes, however the agreement is binding at all times You could compare it to a mundane word or phrase, and you'd be wrong.
"you see it in real life hospitals and medkits all the god damn time" No, you don't. You might see e.g. a green cross but usually not the Red Cross symbol.
The Red Cross, Crescent & Crystal are internationally protected emblems under the Geneva Convention; combatants are even prohibited from harming anyone who bears the said emblems. That's why the IFRC is very strict in imposing the "No unauthorized use" policy.
That's great and everything, but a video game graphic is strictly pixels, polygons, and the like, and has no way of interacting with the real world in the example you're using unless someone takes a gun to a television screen. It's not like a movie where someone might have the cross on a costume, and therefore "misrepresent" it.
its a medical symbol. the game was using it as a medical symbol. the red cross are being pussies. its kind of stupid to copyright something that is an international symbol for medical aid.
M-01 Airsoft Team that's just it. It's not and international symbol for medical aid. It is a International symbol for impartial, neutral, independent humanitarian aid. Whether it is giving medical aid during wartime, medical or humanitarian aid during emergencies or disasters, making sure pow's are treated humanely, helping victims of war find their missing families of even first aid during sporting events of festivals. The meaning far broader than just medical aid for soldiers during war. The reason why it is so important that all the Red Cross symbols (including the red crescent and red diamond) are only used by the Red Cross and their partners is on one hand not to have the world satuareted with it and have it become commonplace. On the other hand the impartial and neutral part is even more important. Once the Red Cross allows it to be used in video (specially war games) and it becomes normal to just shoot characters in those games that wear a Red Cross the meaning of the symbol is tainted. I'm a volunteer for the Dutch Red Cross. For volunteers (and paid employees as well) it's illegal to wear a Red Cross emblem on our clothing when we are not working. After a shift, the moment I get home I have to change. If not I to am in violation of rule surround the Red Cross symbol. Most if not all the countries that signed the Geneva Convention (which is most of the countries on Earth) have incorporated the protection of the symbols in their laws. The Red Cross symbol isn't just another symbol. It gives the wearer quite a few obligations. It gives a soldier wearing it the obligation to render aid to anyone who needs it, even if that person just killed your colleagues. If gives me as a first aid volunteer the obligation to give first aid to anyone needing it. Even if that person is a terrorist who survived a attack he performed on my country. If the terrorist is more badly hurt than anyone else, but he has survivable injuries I am obligated to help him first. And I will. That's what the symbol is all about. The moment one wears that symbol he or she becomes impartial and neutral. For more information about the 7 fundamental principles of the Red Cross and Red Crescent see www.ifrc.org/who-we-are/vision-and-mission/the-seven-fundamental-principles/
See, the thing is, surely having the red cross in video games is a good thing, right? If kids are gunna play them, they're gunna see said red cross and associate that with health and healing, thus if they happen to need to make use of it, they'll understand kinda what it means on a symbolic nature.
"If kids are gunna play them, they're gunna see said red cross and associate that with health and healing" That's specifically the reason why the symbol shouldn't be used in games like this. That's the wrong association.
The Red Cross is an organization, they a legally protected by the Geneva convention and the Red Cross Symbol is their property. The Red cross is not a symbol for first aid, it is a symbol of protection Specifically, it means you are protected under the auspices of the organization of "The Red Cross" and attacking you would therefor be Criminal Attacking or vandalizing anything that legally bears a Red Cross is a crime, Hospitals, Ambulances, Nurses, First aid kits People have overtime incorrectly assumed, like yourself and many others, that the meaning of the symbol is anything related to first aid This is the Red Cross warning the companies in question that they are misusing a Symbol that has a specific meaning
you can call me Hans i dont really know german Because the symbol is legally recognized and protected by laws across the globe Changing they symbol would require changing laws in dozens of countries. the misunderstanding is mainly in people who have no need of understanding the symbol, the general populace in wealthy, peaceful nations who have no need to understand its true meaning as a protective icon
Ben Grogan No shit.ut i wonder why the missunderstanding began in the first place.Like,what game decided to use it as a symbol for health and aid and then other games picked up on it too?
you can call me Hans i dont really know german I'm not sure what game started it, but the first thing IRL that started it was a company in the US that started using it on first aid kit
The red cross stands for "Do not shot at" its it has no meaning in the civillian sector peace time. As a military symbol its very important though. The explanation from the video by IVSoftware is that the organisation thinks the symbol will loose its meaning if not used the right way. And seeing as practically noone knows what the symbol actually means they may not be to far off. BTW a bit of trivia. The actual symbol of medicine is a winged rod with 2 snakes winding round it.
That "Actual Symbol" was only made the symbol AFTER the red cross claimed it for themselves, I have TWO medical cases from World War 2, those ones that was sent to schools during that era of fear. guess what symbol is right there on the front? a big, red, plus. not a pair of snakes on a rod with wings. a big, fat, red, Positive sign. along with the words "Johnson+Johnson" and "FIRST AID" (yes, in capitals). it took until AFTER we got a Red Cross of America before they really started trying to enforce this backwards claim. this is the same problem the Manji has right now or "Swastika" as morons call it, despite the fact they aren't the same. some jackasses decided one day that they own that symbol and for some moronic reason nobody disputed their claims.
Hell, you can't even go by the Red Cross' own claims to history, their dates are all over the place, and as it turns out, they lay claim to another symbol, a red crescent moon, a ancient symbol used in countless religions that far outdate the 1880s when they where founded.
The reason 1st aid boxes in WW2 carried the Red cross was that the BOXES CONTENTS where covered under the protection of the red cross The implication of this is to inform enemy combatants that any move towards this box is not a show of hostility
Grega Meglic Actually the symbol for medicine is a rod with one snake winding round it (known as the Rod of Asclepius), however the winged rod with 2 snakes (the Caduceus) is very often misused in its place.
If gamers are going to get in trouble for using a red cross then maybe the church should too lol. It's not like The Red Cross Org created the symbol, it's been used before. It's the ancient rune Gebo. You can put any color you want on it, but it's still Gebo. Or what about the knights templar, are people gonna sue them for using it? And a symbol can have any meaning we give to it, really. In my humble opinion, the idea that it can't be used for however a person sees fit because of a politician scribble is just really darn stupid.
Those fucking Crosses during the Roman times sure were looking pretty red after people got fucking nailed to them, Maybe we should Resurrect Caesar so that he can drop a fuckin lawsuit on them.
the templar cross is different its more along the shape of the iron cross. and gebos symbol is an x. plus its not about who did it first or copyright. its because its protected by the geneva convention to protect medical people in wars
"More along the shape of the iron cross..."... which is still a cross. Geneva convention doesn't pertain to suing Media because they use a red cross icon to denote health/aid.
a cross but a different kind of cross. different enough to be easily distinguished. not the geneva convention but the red cross. its simple: the geneva convention states that people wearing a red cross on the battlefield aka paramedics arent allowed to be shot. now if everyone could wear a red cross if he likes to this would be worthless
I remember countless LEGO sets from my childhood that had the red cross on it. Thing is, ICRC does not get to claim sole usage of that symbol. Multiple militaries use it for their medical fields without caring for the ICRC's opinion. When the US still gave their medics red cross patches, that medic still could fire his weapon even with the RC affixed to his uniform (NO medics aren't required to be unarmed and NO it is not a war crime for them to attack and kill an enemy in self-defense). The red cross is merely a color-reversed Swiss flag. Switzerland politically has traditionally been recognized as stubbornly neutral in most European conflicts. The usage of their flag design was chosen as a means to convey a neutral area or party to the conflict while obviously separating itself from being directly connected to Switzerland itself. It wasn't meant to be a religious symbol, which makes it chucklesome when countries start demanding the recognition of red crescents, red stars of davids, and red diamonds as a secular symbol so as not to offend anybody with another secular symbol. Odds are, game devs could send any ICRC letter a giant middle finger unless their games had a direct usage in warfare. The Geneva convention and the laws of war are confined to warfare alone. If a soldier kills a civilian in an allied country in a drunken bar brawl, that is not a war crime, it is plain murder by however the host nation defines it. And if a civilian group takes a symbol that is in the public domain to use in their games, then they have the freedom to do so as long as their nation allows such freedom. Sounds more like the ICRC is more concerned about their brand name than any actual treaty issues or ethics. Pretty par for course considering my past dealings with them.
Sure enough, Team Fortress 2 still makes extensive use of a red cross on white field with zero fucks given towards the ICRC. I guess when you have a cash pile the size of Valve, you can hire the kinds of lawyers that suddenly make the ICRC forget about all their concerns about the usage of the symbol.
Then you've misunderstood the meaning of that cross, all this time. It's a canard that a red cross means medicine. It doesn't. White crosses mean medicine. Red crosses mean humanitarian aid, whether medical or not. Such as might be painted on a US Army Field Litter Ambulance, so that it can drive into a conflict zone while maintaining its neutrality.
I guess you missed all that I said about it being a reversal of the Swiss flag and neutrality and all that? You know, the entire second paragraph of my original message? Still, a private organization has no right to claim dominion over the symbol or try to subvert free speech in the name of preventing misunderstandings. And NATO and former Warsaw Pact medical vehicles, aircraft, ships, and buildings use a red cross on a white field to denote their neutrality in the field. Other neutral parties, such as chaplains, press, or even observers do not make use of that symbol. Indeed, most third party organizations besides ICRC that I've seen overseas are more likely to go under U.N markings or denote their function in multiple languages. So if the culture and parties of warfare, the original reason for the definition for the Red Cross, have moved away from its usage in all fields BUT medicine, then what good is it to point to the textbook definition that means otherwise? Because a single NPO wants it to be?
Exactly. If game devs were putting the red cross on grenades, explosive barrles or as graffiti on walls then they would at least have a case. But putting them on anything health and safety related actually strenghtens the symbol.
Right, I'd be hard pressed to come up with a more recognizable symbol to denote something of a medical purpose. Stopping everyone from using the symbol for things not related specifically to the Red Cross organization is sort of like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
Left 4 Dead also has the red crosses intact years later, and TF2's RED Medic still does his thing. I wonder if they'll uphold this if these games ever get sequels.
I was kind of the same mind when I watched the video, too. The Red Cross is a charity-funded organization. So how is it they can afford to go Disney-esque sue-happy on a bunch of video game makers? I think if I was one of the charitable organizations who was funding the Red Cross, I'd be knocking on a few head honchos' doors over at the Red Cross and asking them when they thought they could spend my money that way.
James. . .Then it must come as a shock to you to know that the head of arc makes over 500k a year? They run the organization as a business and can afford a healthy legal department. And being partially funded by the U.S. government helps a little as well.
Doesn't the convention only apply to governments fielding armies in war? I know it doesn't apply to internal police forces. How could it possibly apply to games?
Austin Waggoner It applies at all times. Part of rules are only applicable during war times, and part apply only on military services. The protection of the emblem part is explicitly stated to apply at all times and required to be written in local law. Part of UK law as example: " it shall not be lawful for any person, without the authority of the [F1Secretary of State], to use for any purpose whatsoever any of the following " You can read the whole law of Geneva Conventions Act 1957 here: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/5-6/52
The rules of the Geneva conventions are replicated in UK law, and the UK law implementation covers all usage of the red cross symbol. Presumably the reason US developers use the red cross symbol all the time is that the Uniform Code of Military Justice (the US legal implementation of the Geneva conventions) only applies to the military. One of the reasons why a country might want the Geneva conventions to be part of normal non-military laws is non-state combatants (for instance, domestic terrorist groups such as the IRA) could be tried under any Geneva convention laws they violate, which would not be possible if the laws only apply to military justice
im guessing its because most of the standards military we have today are products of conflicts that occur in western hemisphere which are predominantly christians in terms of faith. The Cross Symbol probably illicit a sense of universal respect and reverence amongst western combatant regardless of countries and affiliation. And thus medical unit used them to protect themselves from hostile intents.
I don't really get why red crosses had to be removed from Prison architect, but I kinda understand it for Skullgirls. The people who wear the red cross emblem are prohibitet from being attacked and they are not allowed to cause harm either, so using it in a fighting game goes purely against those principles that are considered to be serious war crimes.
"The Red Cross is a powerful symbol of neutrality, partiality, humanity and hope. Please help us protect it!". Are you sure that's what it's actually about, or that it's about stoking your ego and how amazing you THINK you are? The sheer amount of self-importance is, quite frankly, amazing. As someone who played Earthbound, several times I actually didn't know a hospital was a hospital, and spent the mass majority of the game never visiting one. Had the red cross been there, I'd have immediately known what it was. "Get help here". But I didn't, so I never did. Thanks red cross.
*It's a plus* Wrong, it's a red plus on a white background XD But in all honesty, they do have claim over it and it's not like a red cross being green is affecting your game play experience.
I hope you are a troll for your own sake. You know so little of its meaning other than it ruining your game experience? lel. Just please. Research it once again and know how important it may be... owo
how is that stroking his ego? he's just relaying facts to you... and that IS what the Red Cross, it's a symbol of neutrality, partiality, humanity, and hope. Which is why it's a war crime to shoot at a red cross, and an incredibly sensitive topic. It's not like they said "REMOVE IT OR FACE TRIAL FOR WAR CRIMES"
So- here's what I'm getting at: The Geneva convention only targets smaller game companies because they cannot fight back but companies like valve are allowed to keep this because valve can actually fight back.
I do believe it's mostly legal issues, not censorship. Red Cross is not in public domain, indeed. I've seen quite a lot of video game that didn't use "red cross" in healing items, usually they put green cross, blue cross (and I reckon one game that put red stroke outside the blue cross) or "HP" or simply none (item name still suggest "healing items"). Not particularly interesting topic to me, since it's uses & legality in recent games is pretty much already "known" by most AAA devs (MOSTly).
It's also a good way for younger generations to begin not associating a red cross with healing or protection. I grew up playing video games and that is honestly where I developed a subconscious association of a red cross with healing. I see it from time to time on first aid kits but a lot more commonly in games and media. I am a history buff so I know what the Red Cross is but not all people bother with the history of organizations like that, especially kids.
Seems like a good opportunity for anonymous modders to release their red-cross-restoration mods, making sure to use VPNs/proxies/Tor to make sure the ICRC can't find or stop them.
>_< How about the Red cross adds some identifying feature to their "logo". If I can go into Microsoft Word and Replicate your "Logo" by: 1. Select "Plus" Shape 2. Hold shift and draw plus shape 3. Fill shape with Red So If I make my logo a blue box, can I then sue anyone that uses a blue box in their media? I mean apparently we can copyright "Colored Shapes" so, I see no problem with my aforementioned blue box logo... Some Red Cross Logos have a white circle around them, others have a red circle, most I see on shirts and such have a white border around the red plus sign. I believe if you want something to be your "Logo" it must be immediately identifiable and UNIQUE. I.E.: CN Rail. Their logo is mostly just the letter C and N but they added a line in the middle making it UNIQUE. No hate for the red cross intended but seriously we are getting offed by the use of "SHAPES". Last I checked you can't copyright a shape and a color. If I'm wrong please inform me, I'd like to copyright "Red Octagon's" and make tons of cash off the government. Royaltee on every stop sign beeches!
This is so unbelievably stupid... the symbol is not used exclusively by the red cross services, it's a universally recognised symbol of hospitals, ambulances, doctors etc. The video game designers are using it for its intended purpose, to show the player where to get medical help. How is that diminishing its purpose?
If that is truly what the red cross symbol "means", then what exactly is the problem with putting red colored crosses on hospitals, ambulances, doctors, etc.? We don't want anyone to shoot at those things, either. These various medical personnel are "non-combatants" too, just in a different "combat" environment. Why should military "non-combatants" providing first aid on a "battlefield" be the only "non-combatant" first aid providers to not be shot at? Shouldn't every first aid provider be afforded the courtesy of not being shot at, not just the ones on a battlefield? Part of me thinks we should expand it further and put red crosses on stuff like grandmothers and grandbabies, too. And puppies. Do not shoot at puppies. Puppies are "non-combatants", too.
@@--_--IMP--_-- "then what exactly is the problem with putting red colored crosses on hospitals, ambulances, doctors, etc.?" Because it does not represent medical care in general and most hospitals etc. do not have the right to use it. Only the Red Cross has the right to it.
@@--_--IMP--_-- "That was never in question." Including the part where I said "Only the Red Cross has the right to it"? Most medical personnel work in normal civilian life. The Red Cross symbol is special because it's need by relief workers working in war zones.
Red Cross - "We've let it pass for a long time, but everyone using our symbol willy nilly has kind of got out of hand. Please change the symbol to something else. Thanks!" Americans - "NO THAT'S CENSORSHIP PANIC PANIC PANIC EVERYONE GRAB UR GUNS"
That simply means that either they do not have enough money to sue big companies, or they have their own profit with cooperating with them. Squeezing a little folks, like indie devs to create "authority". Just a thought.
Fa Mulan - None of those things makes games worse. Everyone else - I'm American. I know first-hand how INSANE Americans get about the idea of censorship. And how they all love to call it censorship when it's just things being stopped for self-evident good reasons.
Just to note, your use of Castlevania as an example of the censorship of religious references is actually pretty interesting. The censored version uses Ankhs, which are themselves a religious symbol, symbolizing rebirth in Egyptian mythology. On a similarly interesting note, Konami actually censored the TCG version of the Monster Reborn Yu-Gi-Oh card - the OCG version depicts an Ankh, while the TCG shows some sort of ornate badge, medallion or symbol of office.
If they were going around suing everyone using the symbol, I'd argue that between how generic the symbol is and that it used in medical supplies in real life (apparently with their consent), it would be ridiculous and over the top. The thing is that they aren't doing that, they are politely asking developers to not use it and giving the developers the reason why, and are technically in the right (legally at least). More importantly, why does the symbol being a Red Cross matter for the game?
It probably doesn't apply to the US, don't quote me on it though. Edit: Turns out it's a symbol to protect medical personnel, which would make sense in TF2 since you would want to protect the Medic to keep healing. Plus it's somewhat of a war.
Spicy peanut butter Check the graphics, Valve has ceased use of the Red Cross emblem since 2006 when it and other major studios received similar letter.
I already tried to tell and warn people about this crap few years ago. Go play any of the most recent re-releases of Doom 1-2 (ie the BFG Edition) or Duke3D, and you will see the old medpacks replaced with new ones with "red&white pill" symbols. The legendary WORMS games switched from red to green crosses in later titles. The L4D2 character pack for RE5 no longer had red cross symbols on the F-aid kits the characters carry. The list goes on. And no, this is NOT limited to just games; just recently, a Finnish band had to censor their music video, which had those stereotypical nurse outfits with red cross symbols on their head wear, by blurring them out. Even worse offender was a case of a charity campaign to collect money for a new children's hospital, which's ads had those old ABC-blocks forming a rough shape of a cross. No matter that the color of crosses was ORANGE, this pissed of RC, which resulted the old ads being pulled down and new ones being designed to replace them. Which is even more ironic knowing that at least in Europe, all STREET SIGNS showing the location of hospitals have plain and simple red cross symbol on them! This matter gets even more sinister when you realize that this "charity" corporation of ours is practically declaring ownership of a Christian symbol + a specific color.
I'm no expert on the matter, but to most people a *t* is a cross and the shape used for the "Red Cross" is a plus *+* If you look at at Bibles, or most Christian stuff it is a t. Unless there is some deep seeded information that only hardcore Christians would know... besides, Christianity has done its fair share of the same thing.
There's no deep references or anything in my post. The cross symbol in RC's logo and flags of many countries are direct references Christianity. It's even more evident by the fact that RC's muslim "sister group" is the Red Crescent (moon symbol) movement.
Video games taught me that if im hurt i should look for a box or truck or building with a red cross on it....now future generations will search for things with giant H's on them and they will bleed to death or something....This is like changing 911 to 912 in all TV shows and then being surprised when a kid tries to dial 912 in an emergency.
...and the red cross symbol is not the symbol for first aid! It means that, in war zones, personnel and buildings with this symbol are not related to combatants! The symbol for first aid is a white cross on green background! The red cross symbol symbolizing health makes people think it means health when it doesn't, and you - and many other people in this comment section - are examples.
That Guy maybe because they always knew that they're gonna lose anyway? and so they were afraid that they'd need to pay a huge refund for losing the case?
никита портной The state should be one which sues as the "owner" the only legal user of the emblem is the military, not RC. RC societies are exception to the main rule and they may use the emblem with their name written next to. If the country has signed the Geneva Convention then there is practically no chance for new user since 1949 to get right to legally use the pure emblem.
this is a censor thats understandable. they want the red cross to mean help over danger. Anyone remember the swatzika symbol? its actually japanese and originally meant luck. But because someone used it wrong, its got an infamous bad rep.
Psycho Doodle Which is why they don't want people to use it, to avoid something like that to happen with the Red Cross. Also, you kind of proven them right with your example.
jthedog the red cross is used as medical/recovery purposes or reference to hospital/medical professions.... i dont see how this removal is justified in any way
Yea a red cross in a videogame would certainly confuse troops in a war scenario. They would probably think "well its on this computer screen, which is obviously not a medical site, so we might as well bomb any building or object with a red cross on it"
The Red Cross fucking sucks. American EMS had to invent their own symbol (The Star of Life) for ambulances here in the U.S. because of the Red Cross as an organization being so pissy. Also, see Ratchet, the ambulance/medic Transformer. He used to have red cross symbols in the past but is no longer allowed to.
I'm sorry, I was unaware that the Red Cross owned any kind or red colored cross. Last I checked, many ambulances have red crosses on them, and so do their medical kits inside the ambulance, and those ambulances aren't owned by the Red Cross. So if I want put a Red Cross in a game I make on med kits or medical transport vehicles, and they come after me, I'll refer them to all the medical equipment and vehicles that aren't own by them that have red crosses on them, and if they won't go after them for using "their symbol", then they shouldn't come after me for doing exactly what those non-Red Cross owned medical equipment is doing.
What a stupid reason why its just a game should be allowed to create anything in games based on the age rating, cause I can understand why all games should have an age rating just don't censor them in its own age rating category.
using a red cross is a generic symbol, and shouldn't be copyrighted. it's like trying to copyright the word "react". I can see where they are coming from, but they COULD have chosen something not so widely used and so simple, anyone could make it. can't they add a little design to the logo? something that is still simple, but not used? Maybe make a few white wavy lines through the center of each line in the cross? Because that would solve the problem for everyone
@@enochliu8316 yes, that was explained 6 months ago by a commenter who responded to my 6-year-old comment That said, it's still ridiculous that the red cross won't allow their symbol be used on medkits in games when Red Cross sells medkits themselves in real life. They specify it's because it confuses their purpose as an organization but they're clearly perpetuating that confusion well enough on their own
I will never donate to Red Cross because of this. I rather send my money to organizations that gonna use that money to help people instead of to sue developers.
@Another One My opinion is that if the symbol is used to represent any increase in health then it is a democratic representation. However, I don't believe the changing of the symbols color in game textures does anymore than perplex players.
You know an organization's legal team has a lot of spare time on their hands when they decide to stop people from using two red perpendicular rectangles in media.
So, why again do I need to be kept from seeing too many red crosses? Will my humanity become tainted? Interesting logic, world. Edit: This is primarily for UK and Canada. TF2 and other games contain red crosses everywhere.
This is NOT censorship. The Red Cross belongs to the Red Cross. It is one of those rare symbols that you just don't fuck with so that you KNOW that you're safe when you see one. If we start throwing it all over the place as a costume accessory then no one will take it seriously. The Red Cross was developed as a universally recognized humanitarian symbol to convey one basic concept to the enemy (ANYONE'S enemy): "I am taking care of the injured of this battle. Please do not shoot." We cannot allow that to be tossed about and not taken seriously. There are some things you just don't mess with.
As specified by the Geneva Conventions, the four recognized emblems are to be used only to denote the following: facilities for the care of injured and sick armed forces members; *armed forces medical personnel and equipment;* military chaplains; International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement organizations such as the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC), and the 185 national Red Cross and Red Crescent societies. Games are depictions of real life and fiction, so are movies where the red cross is seen and depicted often yet movies don't get the same backlash for portraying it. Get your panties untangled.
oolon colluphid We're talking about video-games here, buddy. What kind of idiot sees a red cross in a game and goes "Guess I should go shoot up a hospital."?
If games suffer from this ridiculous lawsuit, why aren't hospitals suffering the same fate? Why aren't churches and households forced out of their homes and executed for the sake of a red cross? Broken Logic, a sad excuse for a copyright abuse.
@@enochliu8316 Under international law of what? It would have been beneficial if more people learned about the red cross through games and media. The red cross is a symbol of health and safety, if it can be implemented irl, why can't it be implemented in-game or in media? That's my question. (Copyright? Oh please, that's just lame)
So, how will this effect that Britannic game coming out that shows it's sinking. The Britannic was a liner built from the same plans as the Olympic and infamous Titanic, it was supposed to be a passenger ship but was made a hospital ship due to the start of WW1. There were red crosses on both sides of the ship and a green band going around to signify that it was indeed a hospital ship and should not be attacked by anyone, that means no German U-boats were supposed to target it. The ship hit a mine in November 1916. The red crosses on the ship cannot be replaced with another symbol nor can the symbols change colors, for that's how it was on the ship, and changing them diminishes historical accuracy.
Yesterday I drew a red plus sign with crayon and showed it to all my friends. Gosh, I sure do hope big bad Red Cross doesn't decide that my art infringes on their copyright and forces me to re-draw it to a red circle. I mean, after all, my drawing might diminish the meaning of the symbol and some combat medics might get killed because enemy combatants didn't realize they were medics; thought they were video game first-aid kits or something, y'know? It's dangerous stuff, misusing such an important symbol like that.
caleb slagle Yeah Everyone is saying it's medic pack symbol No! Since 1846 it has meant the Red Cross, and that's the point, they want you to think the 17M volunteers helping in the world, not a med pack
You just showed exactly why they're doing it.The Red Cross doesn't mean "Heals Here", it means "Hey, don't shoot us." It HYPOTHETICALLY stops people from mistaking relief workers and the like from military personnel, because it's cool to shoot the people who signed up to be shot at, not cool to shoot at the people who signed up to help those caught in the crossfire.
I'd argue that using the red cross in games for medical purposes would strengthen its meaning. After all, if people get used to say a green cross in media to mean "medical assistance", it could make them question the meaning of a red cross (however unlikely that might be)
"I'd argue that using the red cross in games for medical purposes would strengthen its meaning." No, that doesn't strengthen its meaning because that *isn't* what it means. The games are teaching the wrong meaning.
I run a colorful organization that uses all colors and symbols that mean specific things, so if I see any of these symbols used incorrectly or colored differently, you best have a proficient lawyer.
I believe that upholding the geneva convention is extremely important. Also considering that the red cross is a universal symbol for "Do not attack us, we will help you", it is *extremely* important that this does not lose its value.
I thought a red cross was just universal for anything medical
cReDiiTz
Well it has been copyrighted since copyright came into existence.
jthedog
even IF that would be the case, it has been expired by now.
Stop spreading fake news.
false. it would be a trademark, NOT a copyright, and trademarks can be renewed. not only that, but within British law there's a few specific exemptions from copyright expiration, most notably Peter pan with all the provides going to a children's hospital.
also, this would not be fake news, it would be misinformation. check yourself before you wreck yourself next time.
It is. The organization simply patented the logo and claims it as their own which is horse shit.
TheSonTendo AFAIK a *green* cross is the most widely used symbol for pharmacies in the real world. I think it is only in computer games where a red cross symbol has been used for health packs and in fact now that I think of it that may even be specific to shooters. Could well be that Wolfenstein started it. Games in other genres commonly use the red heart symbol.
But a red cross on a white background is also the flag of England. :S
Guru, isn't that Switzerland?
the red cross that is trademarked does not extend all the way to the edges however, THAT is the major difference. heck, it's actually based off of the swiss flag. from the british red cross's website
"The red cross emblem is an inversion of the Swiss flag, which shows a white cross on a red background. This recognises the historic connection between Switzerland and the original Geneva Convention of 1864. "
The Flag of England has, indeed, a Red Cross. The Swiss flag, however, is a _WHITE_ Cross on a Red flag.
"The red cross emblem is an *inversion* of the Swiss flag"
Inversion as in the colours have been swapped.
Fuck, i read it with your voice. I can sense a Fact Hunt about Flags soon!
It's great to know that all the suffering in the world has ended and the Red Cross can focus on important issues like video games.
Glad they have their priorities in check...
You seem to be implying that the entire Red Cross is focusing on video games.
he's saying that this is a waste of the organization's resources that could be spent helping people, not on lawyers sending emails saying you can't use a certain symbol
If the only thing that protected you from harm in a warzone was an insigna, you would get pretty defensive about it too.
The key point being 'in a war zone'.
Obviously, being a non-medical soldier or otherwise in a war zone and using the red cross is despicable and constitutes a war crime. If people did this the enemy would begin firing upon people with the cross and endanger people there solely to provide medical care.
This is not a war zone - it is not even a real location. This seems petty and designed to get some press, which seems below the Red Cross.
like wtf. Red crosses in videogames are honestly free advertisement for your first aid, It honestly teaches kids what medical supplies could look like. why attack the devs!?
like he said in the video they werent "attacked", had they refused to change it the red cross probably wouldnt have taken any drastic action, while it IS a legal problem its even more so an ethical issue
its not an ethical issue red-cross is associated with "medical" its a loose link but its there. its also the function of the red cross : help in case of threat to life. they are just strong arming people like any other gov, organisation and pretty much every group of individual that exist on this planet ... it will backfire eventually.
idealogs
"attack the devs" did you even watch the video?
"It makes kids think they can eat medkits!"
The Red Cross: using your donations to hunt and find out small indie devs for using a symbol that implies aid
Will Brown It doesn't imply aid, its the Red Cross's symbol
Just like the Apple logo, does the Apple logo really imply an apple (the fruit) or Apple Inc.
Mohammed Ayman H
It shouldn't be on first aid kits as the international standard is white cross on green background.
J&J company managed to hijack the emblem in 19th century in USA before the ARC managed to get its act together and they are only who has right to use it in medical devices outside of military. Even the RC societies have to put their name next to the emblem if they have FA kits. ARC is a scumbag and sells FA kits with their emblem (the RC emblem + text American Red Cross).
How much does an email cost?
They're not hunting them down. As they stumble upon them, they inform the devs about the rules. So far, no game dev has ever been brought to court for misuse of the Red Cross, but many have been informed about the law.
If they were spending money to hunt them down, every single game with the cross in it would have gotten a very legal-sounding email instead, and those who insist to use it anyway would have gotten served with a lawsuit.
I've probably spent more time and energy on this very comment than was spent on the email to the devs...
Yeah, they just asked nicely, the devs changed a couple of assets, everyone's happy. It probably took all of one afternoon.
Will Brown emails don't cost anything, ya fucking plum
I get why they want to censor it but why, if it degrades your logo/company then yes by all means. Most of the red crosses used in video games are meant for aid
Silica take this W
A plus consists of two lines. Whereas a cross is made with twelve lines.
a fat and bold plus has the same line as a cross.
The emblem means "DO NOT SHOOT AT" it doesn't mean help here.
Many lives depend on people knowing true meaning of the emblem and this discussion here and elsewhere proves that misconception is large.
The misconception is only a misconception among the civilian population. A misconception that will lead to no harm. These are meanings that are taught to those who it will affect. Which is pretty much anyone with even the slightest chance of being out in the field.
They also only affect those who follow the G.C. anyways. Having a Red Cross represent Aid in a videogame will not lead to the ruthless slaughter of field medics.
If people honestly believe it will, they might need to remove those tinfoil hats and think rationally about the situation before jumping to obscene and irrational conclusions.
This is really dumb, as if seeing a red cross in a video game deminishes the meaning of it in real life, do they think gamers are completely braindead?
Musou Tensei
As time goes on, it does. Did you know band-aids were originally a brand name? You didn't? Same with a majority of people. They failed to defend it and it became a generic name, so they lost their hold over it.
Its meaning has ALREADY diminished through rampant misuse. The red cross symbol NEVER stood for just ANY medical aid provided by just ANYONE, it specifically refers to aid from the American Red Cross.
Actually, Band-Aid is still a brand name and very much trademarked. Massive popularization of a product or service usually ends up in common language anyway, like saying "Coke" instead of "cola", so it's understandable that an organization like the Red Cross would want to defend their trademark. That being said, the Red Cross is a non-profit and while it's understandable that they would want to retain the trademark, it's been so historically ubiquitous that it's honestly a moot point.
+Tempora158 Red Cross in international, not just American. It is forbidden to use that logo anywhere in the world without the permission from Red Cross.
The meaning of red cross emblem is defined in Geneva Convention and it is "DO NOT SHOOT AT". The convention also states that only legal users are military medical services and red cross movement, which can use it in identifying their people and possessions. The Geneva Convention also states that all countries bound by it have to incorporate these into their legislation.
There is basically only one other legal use for the emblem, it is by Johnson & Johnson first aid equipment as they "stole" the symbol in 1800's between founding of global Red Cross movement and ratification of the treaty by USA.
1:58
That's still a religious symbol Nintendo...
It has been censored in the West as well.
guess its fine if everyone following it is dead... ironic since respecting the dead is a big thing in japan
@@frank_calvertwell Egyptian pegans do still exist, just rarely. However a more common group is the Coptic Christians an Egyptian sect of Christianity that is highly persecuted.
@@CM-di1oz but they don't have any link to the egyptian pantheists that made the symbol, much has been lost due to time. also coptic christians seem to use a different symbol
I legitimately feel having red crosses everywhere is actually *beneficial*. It allows kids to learn that a red cross symbol means "medicine" or "help"; something that could be extremely useful in cases of emergency.
"It allows kids to learn that a red cross symbol means "medicine" or "help""
No. The part of the reason why the Red Cross doesn't like their symbol used like this is specifically because it can give the *false* impression that it stands for medical care in general. That is *not* what the symbol is supposed to communicate. That you were under this misbelief is an indication that there is a reason why the Red Cross doesn't want its symbol to be used in this way in games.
What the symbol is supposed to communicate (among other things) that anything bearing it has a special protected status under the Geneva Convention and is basically never a valid military target. I think it might be OK to use the symbol in games if e.g. you either couldn't shoot at anything with the symbol on it or at least doing so would be clearly labelled as a war crime.
@@seneca983 "What the symbol is supposed to communicate (among other things) that anything bearing it has a special protected status under the Geneva Convention and is basically never a valid military target." I think this is the problem here.
We should be at this point make it international law that ANY kind of hospital/treatment facility that would bear such a symbol should never be a valid target for military operations.
@@Lancor84 "We should be at this point make it international law that ANY kind of hospital/treatment facility that would bear such a symbol should never be a valid target for military operations."
Hospitals (and anything else) bearing the Red Cross symbol already *is* not a valid military target under current international law.
@@Lancor84 That's the point of the symbol. _Current_ international law says that medical facilities and personnel are to be respected and protected. The symbol can go on people/things that are there to provide medical aid. So military medical personnel are able to use it. The Intl. Red Cross obviously can too.
It is "we're here to help, so don't f*ck with us: the symbol" under current international law.
@@seneca983 The American Red Cross sells first aid kits with red crosses on them, so first aid and the Red Cross go hand in hand. The Red Cross as established in the Geneva Conventions isn’t learned until they’re older.
I don’t know if the British Red Cross sells first aid, so I understand why it’d be treated more carefully there.
American Red Cross also sells keychain with red crosses on them. Maybe someone should go after them for breaking the convention.
Making math sums with a red pen is illegal too then, since the + looks like a red cross. xD
Naud van Dalen damn
"u might think ur just adding #s, but ur rly diminishing my value" - red + bros
And you must also get your maths sums correct, otherwise your teacher will be breaking the law.
A tick or cross in that context isn't reasonably going to be mistaken for a logo. (Otherwise I'd be more worried that drawing a tick in a certain style might incur the legal wrath of Nike..)
Pretty much, because apparently, they copyrighted a "Colored Shape" as their logo.
I'm going to apply for a copyright on "Red Octagon's", then I can get royalty on every stop sign :D
I'm a friggen genius...
I was a game tester for Disney in 2015.
They were VERY specific in looking for Red Crosses.
I found one and everyone was freaking.
"Try not to bleed too much... I'm trying to find a first aid kit, but I can't find a white box with an H on it! What's this thing with a plus sign?"
First aid is white cross on red background, or green cross.
Mostlyharmless1985 Looked up "First aid kit". This was the 3rd image. Try again.
modernsurvivalblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trauma-shears-for-first-aid-kit.jpg
Yuki Nitta Does it surprise you that someone else might make the same mistake as was described in the video? The symbol for first aid is defined in ISO 7010 as a white cross on a background of certain approved colours.
Real first aid kits don't use the International Red Cross logo except for Johnson and Johnson who was grandfathered in the the us formally adopted the treaty and added the special trademarks to the code.
Damn Christians they’ve infiltrated the hospitals now
Theres a red cross at the medkit bags in Battlefield 1.
I think that's different. Most war games depict real life wars, like WW1 and 2
Nope, in court their claim wont hold up for they have not defended their trademark ever, and it became commonly used.
The issue is the costs of the case would bankrupt an indi dev.
That is why Disney for example are so zealous with their trademark lawsuits.
It's not a trademark issue. It's from the Geneva Convention saying that a red cross should only be used by members of the Red Cross, a way of clearly communicating to all sides, "Hey, shooting me is a war crime, don't"
This includes medical personnel on the battlefield.
So basically, Prison architect can't throw a red cross on anything medical in a civilian context because a red cross would not be found there in real life but Battlefield can use a red cross for it's field medics because they would use them in real life.
Lol or maybe Battlefield is too big to go after so they pick on the little guy instead.
yeah and Joint Ops from 2004 had one on medic bag
Well fuck I need to copyright a straight line or a dot then.
Tokyo Bandz
Nope, you can't copyright generic names, icons, or anything in the public domain.
jthedog well what the hell is a red + really? That's about as generic as you can get.
It is not a plus sign, it is a inversion of colors of Swiss flag and it is protected by international treaties called Geneva Conventions which demand all countries bound by it include the legal protection of the emblem in their legislation.
Relevant section of UK law (note that it is not copyright, it is specific law)
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/5-6/52/section/6
jthedog Aww, but I wanted to trademark the word "the". Imagine the dough I would make off of it.
Sebastian Hahn Have fun trying to prove that in court. Plus sign has thin arms while Geneva cross has constructs of five squares arranged in cross shape
Relevant uk law:
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/5-6/52/section/6
Relevant part of the Geneva conventions, First 1949 Geneva Convention articles 38, 53 and 54:
www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/emblem-ihl-011108.htm
The hospital next to my house has a red cross.
Saunterblugget Hampterfuppinshire xD
Yes... that's because it's a hospital, not a video game item
@@Sheerspeechcraft That meant to be a defense of this insanity?
when a "non profit" tax exempt institution can afford a legal team
Rolocen do you know what non profit means
Francisco do you know what facetious means?
Every cent that they make goes to the ones in charge after subtracting upkeep and legal costs?
lol its so funny how the Red Cross diminishes their own brand daily with the "administrative expenses" bullshit but yet seeing a red cross as a means of recovering health is the real black mark
lol
0:08 didn't quite catch that, what's your name again?
Melvin i believe
Sleepy N Read the closed captions
Melvin. Unfortunately they don't have any social media accounts but here's their personal YT channel if you're interested: ua-cam.com/users/CSPCantStopPlaying
"Im Mehhhhuh from Censored Gaming"
Sleepy N Yeah, it's Melvin. My bad, I'm still not really used to doing voiceover but I'll try to make sure I'm clearer on any subsequent videos.
Doesn't the Red Cross have anything more important to do than nag a tiny indie developer?
Most American charities are just corporate bullies who only seek profit, than help their intended cause.
But even then, why go after an indie developer the size of a walnut? Wouldn't they be better off suing or litigating someone with money in the pig?
They did go after the big guys; that's why Bethesda had to remove the red cross from their games like DOOM.
They are not after the money, they want people know the true meaning of the emblem, which is: DO NOT SHOOT AT.
The main function of the emblem is to protect military medical services in time of crisis. As you can read from here the misconceptions about the emblem is overwhelming and it can lead to deaths if shit hits the fan.
Alright shit biscuit you keep saying that it being used as a general medical symbol will somehow diminish the military medical meaning.
PROVE IT!!!!!!!
This is ridiculous. The red cross emblem has become a universal symbol for medical aid and help. In fact, that is why the symbol was originally created. In times of war, despite language barriers, it was meant to be a universal symbol easily recognized by soldiers and officers. If an enemy soldier was seen heading across a field, it was understood that he was off limits to the other side. A medic, simply aiding the wounded. Not a soldier about to open fire. That's what the big white circle with the red cross on his helmet was for. Or, the white arm band with the red cross on it. To claim copyright ownership of the symbol is petty as Hell, even if the cease & desist letters were written in an almost friendly tone,
It is a licensed, copyrighted and trademarked symbol.
Using trademarked symbols without permission?
There is a legal term for that.
Normally, I would agree with you as I usually despise theft of intellectual property, including trademarked and copyrighted symbols. But, not this time. The fact that such a symbol, based on how and why it was created in the first place, is indeed copyrighted and trademarked; is straight up bullshit. I call it as it is. There needs to be exceptions. I can't think of one more blatant than the international symbol of medical aid/help. Military advisors created the symbol. Not the Red Cross foundation.
what about movies that use the symbol without permission?
what about tv shows that use the symbol without permission?
what about books that use the symbol without permission?
what about comics that use the symbol without permission?
what about political cartoons that use the symbol without permission?
what about board games that use the symbol without permission?
what about music videos that use the symbol without permission?
I agree. This is literally the same as if someone copyrighted the minus symbol. You can't do that! It's universal!
Greg Gallacci this symbol has been around since the middle ages so no.
Medkits in Overwatch have a red cross.
And tf2
the funniest thing is that it is only in the small med kit and in the large one, in the "normal", a white cross with a red background is drawn.
Half Life Alyx
WHY GAMES?! Movies get away with violence, sex and red crosses! TV series get away with the same thing! Novels get away with the same thing! Comic books, literature, everything gets away with it! WHY NOT GAMES?!
TheTrueBlueSonicFan
despite the usage being for medical/recovery purposes
Because there are more kids that play videogames than there are adults
nah most gamers are in the 30-35 age range.
Because ESRB
+siekensou77
Video games were made for entertainement, not for medical purposes.
This is all really stupid. First of all, the Red Cross doesn't own that symbol, no more than Gene Simmons owns the $ symbol. Secondly, that symbol has been used in other forms of media THOUSANDS of times and yet they don't seem to complain about that. Thirdly, symbols change over time and across cultures (as skull & crossbones no longer signify cemeteries, and the peace-sign no longer applies exclusively to nuclear disarmament) . GET OVER IT!
Please read Geneva Conventions www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/emblem-ihl-011108.htm
Andi Rain All countries which have signed Geneva Conventions are required to protect the emblem at all times including peace time. You really should study before shouting.
The symbol of a red cross predates the existence of the International Red Cross by thousands of years. The Geneva convention only applies to military behavior. Take a look at the flag of England and try suing them.
XR40 Check the laws, it bounds all time.
The Geneva conventions apply at all times to countries which signed onto them.
There are clauses that specifically state they relate to military actions, War and other legal terms: this is not limited
"we live in a free world" lol rly?
capt david what kind of a stupid comment is that?
A logical one? This is in no way a free world. The only freedom you have is what is granted to you with provision that you don't piss people off.
capt david This was never a free world we always live under a rule of some kind and follow its laws
At least until some country moves in and takes it over claiming that they were there first.
That is just sad. You seriously feel oppressed because your videogames can't have a copywritten symbol in it? Every law has a reason behind it. This law that takes away a couple pixels in a sprite or needs a texture/color change also keeps developers developing entire video games in the first place. No real fucking point in developing games if your neighbor literally just copy/pastes it and sells it for $5 cheaper, huh?
You'd think that Red Cross would be interested in getting young gamers familiar with their symbol and associate it with something positive.
This is just a moronic and paranoid practice :/
But most of these instances don't educate young gamers about the meaning of the symbol but rather do the opposite. The symbol isn't supposed to mark first-aid in general. Rather, it e.g. marks non-combatant medical staff, etc. as not valid military targets.
@@cibo889 Good point.
I think using the Red Cross symbol would be OK when targetting such units is either not allowed or is penalized.
@@cibo889 I disagree. If you can target medics in the game just make them wear some other symbol than the Red Cross. A minor symbol change should hardly ruin a game.
@@cibo889 I didn't mean to suggest *adding* such rules (if they're not a part of the dev's vision) but rather to only use the Red Cross symbol if such rules happen to be in place. Otherwise some other symbol can be used.
@@cibo889 "Why tho?"
The cost of not using the Red Cross symbol is utterly trivial. There are other health care symbols, like caduceus, that don't suffer from this problem.
a "legal issue" instead of a censorship one, is censorship by another name. id argue that if it exists in real life, you should be allowed to use it in a game that is based on a real life setting, even an exagurated one like post apocolyptic.
most companies would PAY to have their logo associated with something popular. all red cross would have to do is educate people on what the symbol means and its history, when they censor it like this, people remain ignorant. who does that help?
"most companies would PAY to have their logo associated with something popular"
Actually company logos might be protected by e.g. copyright or trademark laws and you might not able to legally use them without permission. The Red Cross symbol has a stronger protection.
"all red cross would have to do is educate people on what the symbol means and its history, when they censor it like this, people remain ignorant"
It's better for people to remain ignorant than to learn the wrong facts from games as the symbol is almost never used correctly in games.
@@seneca983 someone with a brain in these comments
@@darumaichi There's no reason a game couldn't feature actual Red Cross personnel or equipment but that's not what we usually see.
>Uses Halo CE and Reach as the thumbnail
>Doesn't even mention the franchise in the video
That little shit. Lets report for misleading thumbnail.
Quote 1. "present architect" (UK indie game).
2. "doom" (1993).
3. "half-life 2" (2004).
4. "skull girls" (which was targeted by the red cross organization in 2014).
5. "mother 2" (in japan) / "earthbound" (outside japan).
6. "super ghouls'n ghosts".
Joe morgan Its a crime against humanity that cannot go unpunished
WE MUST ARRIVE AT HIS DOORSTEPS WITH TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS AND TEACH HIM WHAT FOR
I also just checked, the rally warthog in halo 5 has the red cross (for first aid) between both seats, so... halo 5 has them.
I have a razer keyboard. I keep it green most of the time. Now ill just take a look at my "+" button, ok, now i will press the left corner button which says "color". The plus is now red. Oh my god what have i done? How much years do i have to spend in jail now?
IgorUseProϟϟ are you still in jail? Or did they transfer you to a supermax yet?
And that's the story of how he received a death penalty.
@@rachelslur8729 From an organization that's supposed to provide aid lol
@@ToastyDaEngi i think he got sent to death row
[comment deleted by the red cross because it could hurt it's image and its juicy donations]
I'm still trying to figure out how Jesus feels about someone having copyrighted...the...cross...
I would imagine Jesus doesn't even like crosses, cause... you know
You realize this isn't really about money, right? If you payed attention, this is the Geneva Convention we're talking about. Papers in response to a fucking war. Violating them technically makes you a war criminal. By that standard, having an email politely asking you to stop and change the logo is pretty goddamn tame.
Andrew Kaser but how do papers meant to discern what is and isn't good behavior in war apply to video games? The whole clause in the Geneva conventions about the symbol is simply to establish a symbol that everyone agrees not to shoot at because that is a dick move. And it also states that, in war, it is illegal to put that symbol on combat units that are not giving medical aid. So how can that be cited as a reason to stop using it in a context outside of real life war?
I'm not saying that the Geneva Convention or the red cross are in the right here, just stating the facts. It wouldn't really matter what you or I have to say on the matter: We could argue all day about what is correct, and which way you can or can't use the red cross to keep its meaning intact. After all, it is just a video game, and people know the difference.
But at the end of the day, the papers will win, because this isn't just some corperation with money we're talking about; this is the Geneva Convention. This is war crime territory. This is you VS the actual governments of the world. You can try to argue with them or change their minds, and maybe you're right. But until you, or someone else takes this to the supreme court and gets shit changed, you're going to have to follow what they say; Unless being a literal war criminal isn't a big deal for you.
You might not like it. I don't like it. Hell, I don't even think the government or the red cross likes it. But that's the world we live in.
I don't get it, how can the significance of the symbol be diminished if it's constantly reinforced that it represent's first aid?
Because it doesn't represent first aid, It represents the Red Cross.
The Red cross, as an entity, has a legally recognized state that means attacking anything bearing the icon is a defacto war crime.
It is a symbol of protection, not healing:
The reason for this is the Red Cross often provides life saving 1st aid, but also provides protection for refugees, diplomats on peace brokering deals and investigating the conditions of prisoners of war.
In the past certain individuals have used its well known status to allow them to infiltrate spies, steal information and attack enemies, after this the icon was agrred to be sole domain of those working directly for the Red Cross and that it was not considered to be a public symbol.
Actually, it's represented first aid for thousands of years.
I don't see the correlation between a symbol in a video game representing health/healing and real life war crimes.
It's a _symbol,_ after all. And not the most original one. You could compare that to a mundane word or phrase.
like the word Apple?
blitzball420 other than the fact a mundane word or phrase is not protected by international laws stating it cannot be used by anyone without authorization
There is a fundamental misunderstanding people are making, you are thinking the Geneva conventions rules only apply to war, it doesn't.
yes there are clauses relating to war and war crimes, however the agreement is binding at all times
You could compare it to a mundane word or phrase, and you'd be wrong.
In overwatch mercy has a Red Cross spray
+NintendoGaming64 -Smash bros Mario Kart and more! SHE ALSO HAS A SKIN WITH A RED CROSS ON THE BREASTPLATE
NintendoGaming64 -Smash bros Mario Kart and more! dont the healthpacks have the red cross too
Rocky Jude she is from Switzerland 🇨🇭
The health pack has a fucking red cross. In overwatch
Princess Hermione I know
Gimme a break...you see it in real life hospitals and medkits all the god damn time so why censor it in games that feature the same?
Yes.
Good question.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with the red cross.
"you see it in real life hospitals and medkits all the god damn time"
No, you don't. You might see e.g. a green cross but usually not the Red Cross symbol.
Last I checked Overwatch Health packs had Rec Crosses...
Armed forces.
Independent Self Impowered White Male TF2 has them as well, even medics emblem is a cross.
i was just playing overwatch 5 minutes ago and it does use the red cross
So does the health packs in team fortress 2
Add Left 4 Dead to the list of offenders.
The ankh is a religious symbol.
Frisko555
Yes it is, but few to no one worships Egyptian gods anymore. So it doesn't count in that matter.
Yeah, Lord British is gonna be pissed.
+jthedog Tell that to 4kids/Konami when they censored the ankh in the Yugioh card: Monster Reborn...
PedoBearNomsLoli but appertly not on sarmsa dragon
Nintendo censored Egyptian symbols when they localized Zelda LttP though.
The Red Cross, Crescent & Crystal are internationally protected emblems under the Geneva Convention; combatants are even prohibited from harming anyone who bears the said emblems. That's why the IFRC is very strict in imposing the "No unauthorized use" policy.
Finally someone who understands how important the symbol is and why it's important to preserve its meaning.
Soarin Peterson I doubt it.
That's great and everything, but a video game graphic is strictly pixels, polygons, and the like, and has no way of interacting with the real world in the example you're using unless someone takes a gun to a television screen. It's not like a movie where someone might have the cross on a costume, and therefore "misrepresent" it.
its a medical symbol. the game was using it as a medical symbol. the red cross are being pussies. its kind of stupid to copyright something that is an international symbol for medical aid.
M-01 Airsoft Team that's just it. It's not and international symbol for medical aid. It is a International symbol for impartial, neutral, independent humanitarian aid. Whether it is giving medical aid during wartime, medical or humanitarian aid during emergencies or disasters, making sure pow's are treated humanely, helping victims of war find their missing families of even first aid during sporting events of festivals. The meaning far broader than just medical aid for soldiers during war.
The reason why it is so important that all the Red Cross symbols (including the red crescent and red diamond) are only used by the Red Cross and their partners is on one hand not to have the world satuareted with it and have it become commonplace. On the other hand the impartial and neutral part is even more important. Once the Red Cross allows it to be used in video (specially war games) and it becomes normal to just shoot characters in those games that wear a Red Cross the meaning of the symbol is tainted.
I'm a volunteer for the Dutch Red Cross. For volunteers (and paid employees as well) it's illegal to wear a Red Cross emblem on our clothing when we are not working. After a shift, the moment I get home I have to change. If not I to am in violation of rule surround the Red Cross symbol.
Most if not all the countries that signed the Geneva Convention (which is most of the countries on Earth) have incorporated the protection of the symbols in their laws.
The Red Cross symbol isn't just another symbol. It gives the wearer quite a few obligations. It gives a soldier wearing it the obligation to render aid to anyone who needs it, even if that person just killed your colleagues. If gives me as a first aid volunteer the obligation to give first aid to anyone needing it. Even if that person is a terrorist who survived a attack he performed on my country. If the terrorist is more badly hurt than anyone else, but he has survivable injuries I am obligated to help him first. And I will. That's what the symbol is all about. The moment one wears that symbol he or she becomes impartial and neutral.
For more information about the 7 fundamental principles of the Red Cross and Red Crescent see www.ifrc.org/who-we-are/vision-and-mission/the-seven-fundamental-principles/
See, the thing is, surely having the red cross in video games is a good thing, right? If kids are gunna play them, they're gunna see said red cross and associate that with health and healing, thus if they happen to need to make use of it, they'll understand kinda what it means on a symbolic nature.
That's exactly what I thought, it seems really dumb to me that they disallow it from being used in this manner
Except that's not what the symbol MEANS. It means "I am a non combatant aid giver, I am defenseless, do not shoot."
Doesn't work any longer if noone is associating it at all because the amount of idiots running around everywhere is too damn high!
@@Mostlyharmless1985 defenceless yet most military medics carry guns
"If kids are gunna play them, they're gunna see said red cross and associate that with health and healing"
That's specifically the reason why the symbol shouldn't be used in games like this. That's the wrong association.
Whats the red cross?Why should it be banned from games?
All my life the red cross just meant "hospital" or "nurse" or whateverthe fuck.
The Red Cross is an organization, they a legally protected by the Geneva convention and the Red Cross Symbol is their property.
The Red cross is not a symbol for first aid, it is a symbol of protection
Specifically, it means you are protected under the auspices of the organization of "The Red Cross" and attacking you would therefor be Criminal
Attacking or vandalizing anything that legally bears a Red Cross is a crime, Hospitals, Ambulances, Nurses, First aid kits
People have overtime incorrectly assumed, like yourself and many others, that the meaning of the symbol is anything related to first aid
This is the Red Cross warning the companies in question that they are misusing a Symbol that has a specific meaning
Ben Grogan
Why don't they just change the symbol :T
you can call me Hans i dont really know german Because the symbol is legally recognized and protected by laws across the globe
Changing they symbol would require changing laws in dozens of countries.
the misunderstanding is mainly in people who have no need of understanding the symbol, the general populace in wealthy, peaceful nations who have no need to understand its true meaning as a protective icon
Ben Grogan
No shit.ut i wonder why the missunderstanding began in the first place.Like,what game decided to use it as a symbol for health and aid and then other games picked up on it too?
you can call me Hans i dont really know german I'm not sure what game started it, but the first thing IRL that started it was a company in the US that started using it on first aid kit
This is worse than The Fine Bros copyrighting the word React
They weren't copyrighting the word react but the React genre of videos.
But what about reaction time???
Nah man, nothing is worse than that abomination, *NOTHING*
Be careful of how you word your post, they may sue you!
that told me... nothing. other than "this is a thing that happened, thanks for the view, bye"
The red cross stands for "Do not shot at" its it has no meaning in the civillian sector peace time. As a military symbol its very important though. The explanation from the video by IVSoftware is that the organisation thinks the symbol will loose its meaning if not used the right way.
And seeing as practically noone knows what the symbol actually means they may not be to far off.
BTW a bit of trivia. The actual symbol of medicine is a winged rod with 2 snakes winding round it.
That "Actual Symbol" was only made the symbol AFTER the red cross claimed it for themselves, I have TWO medical cases from World War 2, those ones that was sent to schools during that era of fear. guess what symbol is right there on the front? a big, red, plus. not a pair of snakes on a rod with wings. a big, fat, red, Positive sign. along with the words "Johnson+Johnson" and "FIRST AID" (yes, in capitals). it took until AFTER we got a Red Cross of America before they really started trying to enforce this backwards claim. this is the same problem the Manji has right now or "Swastika" as morons call it, despite the fact they aren't the same. some jackasses decided one day that they own that symbol and for some moronic reason nobody disputed their claims.
Hell, you can't even go by the Red Cross' own claims to history, their dates are all over the place, and as it turns out, they lay claim to another symbol, a red crescent moon, a ancient symbol used in countless religions that far outdate the 1880s when they where founded.
The reason 1st aid boxes in WW2 carried the Red cross was that the BOXES CONTENTS where covered under the protection of the red cross
The implication of this is to inform enemy combatants that any move towards this box is not a show of hostility
Grega Meglic Actually the symbol for medicine is a rod with one snake winding round it (known as the Rod of Asclepius), however the winged rod with 2 snakes (the Caduceus) is very often misused in its place.
If gamers are going to get in trouble for using a red cross then maybe the church should too lol. It's not like The Red Cross Org created the symbol, it's been used before. It's the ancient rune Gebo. You can put any color you want on it, but it's still Gebo. Or what about the knights templar, are people gonna sue them for using it? And a symbol can have any meaning we give to it, really.
In my humble opinion, the idea that it can't be used for however a person sees fit because of a politician scribble is just really darn stupid.
Those fucking Crosses during the Roman times sure were looking pretty red after people got fucking nailed to them, Maybe we should Resurrect Caesar so that he can drop a fuckin lawsuit on them.
the templar cross is different its more along the shape of the iron cross. and gebos symbol is an x. plus its not about who did it first or copyright. its because its protected by the geneva convention to protect medical people in wars
"More along the shape of the iron cross..."... which is still a cross.
Geneva convention doesn't pertain to suing Media because they use a red cross icon to denote health/aid.
a cross but a different kind of cross. different enough to be easily distinguished. not the geneva convention but the red cross. its simple: the geneva convention states that people wearing a red cross on the battlefield aka paramedics arent allowed to be shot. now if everyone could wear a red cross if he likes to this would be worthless
What the fuck does that have to do with drawing a plus sign on your first aid kit in Halo?
I remember countless LEGO sets from my childhood that had the red cross on it.
Thing is, ICRC does not get to claim sole usage of that symbol. Multiple militaries use it for their medical fields without caring for the ICRC's opinion. When the US still gave their medics red cross patches, that medic still could fire his weapon even with the RC affixed to his uniform (NO medics aren't required to be unarmed and NO it is not a war crime for them to attack and kill an enemy in self-defense).
The red cross is merely a color-reversed Swiss flag. Switzerland politically has traditionally been recognized as stubbornly neutral in most European conflicts. The usage of their flag design was chosen as a means to convey a neutral area or party to the conflict while obviously separating itself from being directly connected to Switzerland itself. It wasn't meant to be a religious symbol, which makes it chucklesome when countries start demanding the recognition of red crescents, red stars of davids, and red diamonds as a secular symbol so as not to offend anybody with another secular symbol.
Odds are, game devs could send any ICRC letter a giant middle finger unless their games had a direct usage in warfare. The Geneva convention and the laws of war are confined to warfare alone. If a soldier kills a civilian in an allied country in a drunken bar brawl, that is not a war crime, it is plain murder by however the host nation defines it. And if a civilian group takes a symbol that is in the public domain to use in their games, then they have the freedom to do so as long as their nation allows such freedom.
Sounds more like the ICRC is more concerned about their brand name than any actual treaty issues or ethics. Pretty par for course considering my past dealings with them.
Sure enough, Team Fortress 2 still makes extensive use of a red cross on white field with zero fucks given towards the ICRC. I guess when you have a cash pile the size of Valve, you can hire the kinds of lawyers that suddenly make the ICRC forget about all their concerns about the usage of the symbol.
Hmm, looking at my Field Litter Ambulance, I'd be willing to say that you're wrong.
flyboymb I respect you, sir.
Then you've misunderstood the meaning of that cross, all this time. It's a canard that a red cross means medicine. It doesn't. White crosses mean medicine. Red crosses mean humanitarian aid, whether medical or not. Such as might be painted on a US Army Field Litter Ambulance, so that it can drive into a conflict zone while maintaining its neutrality.
I guess you missed all that I said about it being a reversal of the Swiss flag and neutrality and all that? You know, the entire second paragraph of my original message? Still, a private organization has no right to claim dominion over the symbol or try to subvert free speech in the name of preventing misunderstandings.
And NATO and former Warsaw Pact medical vehicles, aircraft, ships, and buildings use a red cross on a white field to denote their neutrality in the field. Other neutral parties, such as chaplains, press, or even observers do not make use of that symbol. Indeed, most third party organizations besides ICRC that I've seen overseas are more likely to go under U.N markings or denote their function in multiple languages.
So if the culture and parties of warfare, the original reason for the definition for the Red Cross, have moved away from its usage in all fields BUT medicine, then what good is it to point to the textbook definition that means otherwise? Because a single NPO wants it to be?
It's the universal symbol of medical attention. How is using it as a medical symbol diminish that in any way?
+moo3heril What? Well fuck that.
Thanks for the recap of the video I just watched.
Exactly. If game devs were putting the red cross on grenades, explosive barrles or as graffiti on walls then they would at least have a case. But putting them on anything health and safety related actually strenghtens the symbol.
Right, I'd be hard pressed to come up with a more recognizable symbol to denote something of a medical purpose. Stopping everyone from using the symbol for things not related specifically to the Red Cross organization is sort of like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
+ShadowMan 2nd Coming gr8 b8, m8, but this isn't 4chan, so gtfo.
*-Clicks on video due to Halo CE Med pack, sees nothing about halo*
Insane_ravenger rip, man.
Insane_ravenger why does med packs turn you on?
Cheb halo turned him on
same, very disappointing. I still play that game too, speaking of which, im gonna go play some halo ce now
Insane_ravenger same
If you turn it 45 degrees in either direction from a "Red Cross" position, it becomes a Red X instead
Loopholes and shit...
The red X is copyrighted by my math teacher
Couldn't you just look at it from an angle?
I see their reasoning, but I feel it's extremely petty.
How I see it is. Inforce it completely or not at all. Why should anyone be an exception, even a virtual world.
Because a virtual world has no set laws and is of its own history.... That's why.
Don't inspire them!!!
Strangely, Half Life Alyx released in 2020 but still has the red crosses for the health stations and syringes.
Left 4 Dead also has the red crosses intact years later, and TF2's RED Medic still does his thing. I wonder if they'll uphold this if these games ever get sequels.
I think all of VALVE's games that have medkits use the red cross.
*Its a fucking red cross...*
Same for the Swastika and nudity.
PURE EVIL
So peoples donations are used to chase down red crosses in video games...
remember that the next time you choose a charity.
I was kind of the same mind when I watched the video, too. The Red Cross is a charity-funded organization. So how is it they can afford to go Disney-esque sue-happy on a bunch of video game makers?
I think if I was one of the charitable organizations who was funding the Red Cross, I'd be knocking on a few head honchos' doors over at the Red Cross and asking them when they thought they could spend my money that way.
James. . .Then it must come as a shock to you to know that the head of arc makes over 500k a year? They run the organization as a business and can afford a healthy legal department. And being partially funded by the U.S. government helps a little as well.
Doesn't the convention only apply to governments fielding armies in war? I know it doesn't apply to internal police forces. How could it possibly apply to games?
Musky Elon it does not as Geneva convention only applies in times of war
Austin Waggoner It applies at all times. Part of rules are only applicable during war times, and part apply only on military services.
The protection of the emblem part is explicitly stated to apply at all times and required to be written in local law.
Part of UK law as example:
" it shall not be lawful for any person, without the authority of the [F1Secretary of State], to use for any purpose whatsoever any of the following "
You can read the whole law of Geneva Conventions Act 1957 here:
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/5-6/52
The rules of the Geneva conventions are replicated in UK law, and the UK law implementation covers all usage of the red cross symbol. Presumably the reason US developers use the red cross symbol all the time is that the Uniform Code of Military Justice (the US legal implementation of the Geneva conventions) only applies to the military.
One of the reasons why a country might want the Geneva conventions to be part of normal non-military laws is non-state combatants (for instance, domestic terrorist groups such as the IRA) could be tried under any Geneva convention laws they violate, which would not be possible if the laws only apply to military justice
im guessing its because most of the standards military we have today are products of conflicts that occur in western hemisphere which are predominantly christians in terms of faith.
The Cross Symbol probably illicit a sense of universal respect and reverence amongst western combatant regardless of countries and affiliation.
And thus medical unit used them to protect themselves from hostile intents.
Equal armed crosses predate christianity.
I don't really get why red crosses had to be removed from Prison architect, but I kinda understand it for Skullgirls. The people who wear the red cross emblem are prohibitet from being attacked and they are not allowed to cause harm either, so using it in a fighting game goes purely against those principles that are considered to be serious war crimes.
They should definitely revert it back to red cause it'd be funny.
"The Red Cross is a powerful symbol of neutrality, partiality, humanity and hope. Please help us protect it!". Are you sure that's what it's actually about, or that it's about stoking your ego and how amazing you THINK you are? The sheer amount of self-importance is, quite frankly, amazing. As someone who played Earthbound, several times I actually didn't know a hospital was a hospital, and spent the mass majority of the game never visiting one. Had the red cross been there, I'd have immediately known what it was. "Get help here". But I didn't, so I never did. Thanks red cross.
It is a licensed, copyrighted and trademarked symbol.
Using trademarked symbols without permission?
There is a legal term for that.
it's a plus.
*It's a plus*
Wrong, it's a red plus on a white background XD
But in all honesty, they do have claim over it and it's not like a red cross being green is affecting your game play experience.
I hope you are a troll for your own sake. You know so little of its meaning other than it ruining your game experience? lel. Just please. Research it once again and know how important it may be... owo
how is that stroking his ego? he's just relaying facts to you... and that IS what the Red Cross, it's a symbol of neutrality, partiality, humanity, and hope. Which is why it's a war crime to shoot at a red cross, and an incredibly sensitive topic. It's not like they said "REMOVE IT OR FACE TRIAL FOR WAR CRIMES"
So- here's what I'm getting at: The Geneva convention only targets smaller game companies because they cannot fight back but companies like valve are allowed to keep this because valve can actually fight back.
J&J fought the law and lost, and they had a better case, they were grandfathered in.
I do believe it's mostly legal issues, not censorship. Red Cross is not in public domain, indeed. I've seen quite a lot of video game that didn't use "red cross" in healing items, usually they put green cross, blue cross (and I reckon one game that put red stroke outside the blue cross) or "HP" or simply none (item name still suggest "healing items"). Not particularly interesting topic to me, since it's uses & legality in recent games is pretty much already "known" by most AAA devs (MOSTly).
why don't they just change it to the Swiss flag then :P
It's also a good way for younger generations to begin not associating a red cross with healing or protection. I grew up playing video games and that is honestly where I developed a subconscious association of a red cross with healing. I see it from time to time on first aid kits but a lot more commonly in games and media. I am a history buff so I know what the Red Cross is but not all people bother with the history of organizations like that, especially kids.
How being politically correct has changed life from when I remembered playing games in the 90s and 2000s with red crosses on health packs.
that's not political correctness that's trademark law lol
Ugh, people always whining about the "PC police". This has nothing to do with being politically correct you moron
It's fucking retarded this shit is trademarked though.
It is NOT trademarked. This has nothing to do with trade. You don't know what you're talking about.
Aaron Cates Thank fuck there's also the sword with the snake wrapped around it (as seen in, say, Far Cry 2)
Seems like a good opportunity for anonymous modders to release their red-cross-restoration mods, making sure to use VPNs/proxies/Tor to make sure the ICRC can't find or stop them.
First use of the red cross was by the templars, i dont think they were so neutral.
Not the same symbol at all.
What the hell is with all the dislikes? Sure, it's a stupid law, but it's not Censored Gaming's fault. Don't blame the messenger.
It's not a stupid law.
@@seneca983why is not stupid.
It is a stupid law
@@Delgran yes.
>_< How about the Red cross adds some identifying feature to their "logo".
If I can go into Microsoft Word and Replicate your "Logo" by:
1. Select "Plus" Shape
2. Hold shift and draw plus shape
3. Fill shape with Red
So If I make my logo a blue box, can I then sue anyone that uses a blue box in their media?
I mean apparently we can copyright "Colored Shapes" so, I see no problem with my aforementioned blue box logo...
Some Red Cross Logos have a white circle around them, others have a red circle, most I see on shirts and such have a white border around the red plus sign.
I believe if you want something to be your "Logo" it must be immediately identifiable and UNIQUE.
I.E.: CN Rail. Their logo is mostly just the letter C and N but they added a line in the middle making it UNIQUE.
No hate for the red cross intended but seriously we are getting offed by the use of "SHAPES". Last I checked you can't copyright a shape and a color. If I'm wrong please inform me, I'd like to copyright "Red Octagon's" and make tons of cash off the government. Royaltee on every stop sign beeches!
Make a company and do this it'll be funny to see how it goes
josh Stinsman I think Telekom has claimed the color Magenta.
alex rogers Yeah, a shape and a color is not an unique enough to be copy righted
2 years late, but it's not a copyrighted emblem, it's a protected emblem. There is a difference between them.
This is so unbelievably stupid... the symbol is not used exclusively by the red cross services, it's a universally recognised symbol of hospitals, ambulances, doctors etc. The video game designers are using it for its intended purpose, to show the player where to get medical help.
How is that diminishing its purpose?
Because the purpose is not healing. The red cross symbol means "DO NOT SHOOT AT".
If that is truly what the red cross symbol "means", then what exactly is the problem with putting red colored crosses on hospitals, ambulances, doctors, etc.? We don't want anyone to shoot at those things, either. These various medical personnel are "non-combatants" too, just in a different "combat" environment. Why should military "non-combatants" providing first aid on a "battlefield" be the only "non-combatant" first aid providers to not be shot at? Shouldn't every first aid provider be afforded the courtesy of not being shot at, not just the ones on a battlefield? Part of me thinks we should expand it further and put red crosses on stuff like grandmothers and grandbabies, too. And puppies. Do not shoot at puppies. Puppies are "non-combatants", too.
@@--_--IMP--_-- "then what exactly is the problem with putting red colored crosses on hospitals, ambulances, doctors, etc.?"
Because it does not represent medical care in general and most hospitals etc. do not have the right to use it. Only the Red Cross has the right to it.
@@seneca983 Thank you, Captain Obvious. That was never in question. Excellent job completely missing the point.
@@--_--IMP--_-- "That was never in question."
Including the part where I said "Only the Red Cross has the right to it"?
Most medical personnel work in normal civilian life. The Red Cross symbol is special because it's need by relief workers working in war zones.
Red Cross - "We've let it pass for a long time, but everyone using our symbol willy nilly has kind of got out of hand. Please change the symbol to something else. Thanks!"
Americans - "NO THAT'S CENSORSHIP PANIC PANIC PANIC EVERYONE GRAB UR GUNS"
daemonCaptrix What?
If they were to stop letting it slide, they'd go after the big guys using their symbols, and not push around indie developers.
That simply means that either they do not have enough money to sue big companies, or they have their own profit with cooperating with them.
Squeezing a little folks, like indie devs to create "authority".
Just a thought.
Fa Mulan - None of those things makes games worse.
Everyone else - I'm American. I know first-hand how INSANE Americans get about the idea of censorship. And how they all love to call it censorship when it's just things being stopped for self-evident good reasons.
hey daemon! i bet you use that excuse for "hate crime" laws! you damn libturd!
Just to note, your use of Castlevania as an example of the censorship of religious references is actually pretty interesting. The censored version uses Ankhs, which are themselves a religious symbol, symbolizing rebirth in Egyptian mythology. On a similarly interesting note, Konami actually censored the TCG version of the Monster Reborn Yu-Gi-Oh card - the OCG version depicts an Ankh, while the TCG shows some sort of ornate badge, medallion or symbol of office.
If they were going around suing everyone using the symbol, I'd argue that between how generic the symbol is and that it used in medical supplies in real life (apparently with their consent), it would be ridiculous and over the top. The thing is that they aren't doing that, they are politely asking developers to not use it and giving the developers the reason why, and are technically in the right (legally at least). More importantly, why does the symbol being a Red Cross matter for the game?
tbh, I always looked at it like it was a plus sign. you know, for adding health back to your character.
Have you ever played tf2? the game is full of red crosses
yeah they are everywhere, the medic, the ambulance prop, walls, the meet the medic map, health packs, and even cupcakes.
Well the colour of the cross on the medic is dependant on his team ( blue cross on blu). But yeah.
It probably doesn't apply to the US, don't quote me on it though.
Edit: Turns out it's a symbol to protect medical personnel, which would make sense in TF2 since you would want to protect the Medic to keep healing. Plus it's somewhat of a war.
Tf2 med kit
medic!
Med Kit, Medic, multiple cosmetics, healing particles, supply cabinets...
And the Medic himself has likely walked all over the Geneva Convention. Perfect fit.
yeah i'd like to see them try and fuck with valve
Spicy peanut butter
Check the graphics, Valve has ceased use of the Red Cross emblem since 2006 when it and other major studios received similar letter.
I already tried to tell and warn people about this crap few years ago. Go play any of the most recent re-releases of Doom 1-2 (ie the BFG Edition) or Duke3D, and you will see the old medpacks replaced with new ones with "red&white pill" symbols. The legendary WORMS games switched from red to green crosses in later titles. The L4D2 character pack for RE5 no longer had red cross symbols on the F-aid kits the characters carry. The list goes on.
And no, this is NOT limited to just games; just recently, a Finnish band had to censor their music video, which had those stereotypical nurse outfits with red cross symbols on their head wear, by blurring them out. Even worse offender was a case of a charity campaign to collect money for a new children's hospital, which's ads had those old ABC-blocks forming a rough shape of a cross. No matter that the color of crosses was ORANGE, this pissed of RC, which resulted the old ads being pulled down and new ones being designed to replace them. Which is even more ironic knowing that at least in Europe, all STREET SIGNS showing the location of hospitals have plain and simple red cross symbol on them!
This matter gets even more sinister when you realize that this "charity" corporation of ours is practically declaring ownership of a Christian symbol + a specific color.
I'm no expert on the matter, but to most people a *t* is a cross and the shape used for the "Red Cross" is a plus *+*
If you look at at Bibles, or most Christian stuff it is a t.
Unless there is some deep seeded information that only hardcore Christians would know... besides, Christianity has done its fair share of the same thing.
I think he's referring to Templar Knights during the Crusades, who wore white tunics with red crosses (the + kind) into battle
There's no deep references or anything in my post. The cross symbol in RC's logo and flags of many countries are direct references Christianity.
It's even more evident by the fact that RC's muslim "sister group" is the Red Crescent (moon symbol) movement.
Video games taught me that if im hurt i should look for a box or truck or building with a red cross on it....now future generations will search for things with giant H's on them and they will bleed to death or something....This is like changing 911 to 912 in all TV shows and then being surprised when a kid tries to dial 912 in an emergency.
...and the red cross symbol is not the symbol for first aid! It means that, in war zones, personnel and buildings with this symbol are not related to combatants! The symbol for first aid is a white cross on green background!
The red cross symbol symbolizing health makes people think it means health when it doesn't, and you - and many other people in this comment section - are examples.
Oh please.
They probably only sued them in hope of free cash.
TNinja0 wouldn't really make sense since they are volunteers.
Even volunteers can pretend to be goody two shoes.
How many time to people need to point this out? RED CROSS HAS NEVER SUED ANYBODY.
That Guy maybe because they always knew that they're gonna lose anyway? and so they were afraid that they'd need to pay a huge refund for losing the case?
никита портной The state should be one which sues as the "owner" the only legal user of the emblem is the military, not RC. RC societies are exception to the main rule and they may use the emblem with their name written next to.
If the country has signed the Geneva Convention then there is practically no chance for new user since 1949 to get right to legally use the pure emblem.
this is a censor thats understandable. they want the red cross to mean help over danger.
Anyone remember the swatzika symbol? its actually japanese and originally meant luck. But because someone used it wrong, its got an infamous bad rep.
wasn't it indian?
Swastika is of Indian (of India) origin.
It's of indian origin.
Psycho Doodle
Which is why they don't want people to use it, to avoid something like that to happen with the Red Cross. Also, you kind of proven them right with your example.
jthedog
the red cross is used as medical/recovery purposes or reference to hospital/medical professions.... i dont see how this removal is justified in any way
Censorship hasn't gone to far... It has exploded and has became an un-holy abomination. Difference.
Red cross:Noooooo, You cant comit war crimes in video games
Me: Laughts in Arma 3
I hate legal bullcrap like this in video games. It just gives me a brain aneurysm trying to comprehend it all.
Check out Subnautica, it's got a red cross on it's first aid kits
nope, they changed it to green as well, at least for the fabricated ones, don't remember if the ones you make still have it
The replacement health kits are super hard to see in Doom and Doom 64, you really need to mod them back in to even see them.
Yea a red cross in a videogame would certainly confuse troops in a war scenario. They would probably think "well its on this computer screen, which is obviously not a medical site, so we might as well bomb any building or object with a red cross on it"
Ah yes, targetting games for using a damn colored cross instead of doing something productive and helpful.
What an amazing world.
just change the red cross to a different shade of red. technically it isn't violating any copyright.
It's not about copyright in the first place.
The Red Cross fucking sucks. American EMS had to invent their own symbol (The Star of Life) for ambulances here in the U.S. because of the Red Cross as an organization being so pissy.
Also, see Ratchet, the ambulance/medic Transformer. He used to have red cross symbols in the past but is no longer allowed to.
That's not about being pissy. The symbol has a special status.
I'm sorry, I was unaware that the Red Cross owned any kind or red colored cross. Last I checked, many ambulances have red crosses on them, and so do their medical kits inside the ambulance, and those ambulances aren't owned by the Red Cross. So if I want put a Red Cross in a game I make on med kits or medical transport vehicles, and they come after me, I'll refer them to all the medical equipment and vehicles that aren't own by them that have red crosses on them, and if they won't go after them for using "their symbol", then they shouldn't come after me for doing exactly what those non-Red Cross owned medical equipment is doing.
What a stupid reason why its just a game should be allowed to create anything in games based on the age rating, cause I can understand why all games should have an age rating just don't censor them in its own age rating category.
using a red cross is a generic symbol, and shouldn't be copyrighted. it's like trying to copyright the word "react". I can see where they are coming from, but they COULD have chosen something not so widely used and so simple, anyone could make it. can't they add a little design to the logo? something that is still simple, but not used? Maybe make a few white wavy lines through the center of each line in the cross? Because that would solve the problem for everyone
It's not a case of copyright. The Red Cross symbol has a special protected status under international law.
@@seneca983 oh damn, didn't expect a response, like, 5 years later
@@nathanfish1998 I once responded to an 8 years old comment and got a reply.
The red cross genericsation was after it had been designated a special symbol for the red cross.
@@enochliu8316 yes, that was explained 6 months ago by a commenter who responded to my 6-year-old comment
That said, it's still ridiculous that the red cross won't allow their symbol be used on medkits in games when Red Cross sells medkits themselves in real life. They specify it's because it confuses their purpose as an organization but they're clearly perpetuating that confusion well enough on their own
I will never donate to Red Cross because of this. I rather send my money to organizations that gonna use that money to help people instead of to sue developers.
@Another One My opinion is that if the symbol is used to represent any increase in health then it is a democratic representation. However, I don't believe the changing of the symbols color in game textures does anymore than perplex players.
Yes let me just do a mathematical addition equation with my red pen and why did my math assignment just get copyright strike
How about using it in videogames like Arma, where the red cross actually has it's true meaning of not engaging that target?
You know an organization's legal team has a lot of spare time on their hands when they decide to stop people from using two red perpendicular rectangles in media.
So, why again do I need to be kept from seeing too many red crosses? Will my humanity become tainted? Interesting logic, world.
Edit: This is primarily for UK and Canada. TF2 and other games contain red crosses everywhere.
"Will my humanity become tainted?"
No, but you might be mislead about what the symbol means if you see it used incorrectly (as games generally do).
Short, concise, tells the facts, and uses quick private ads? Props to you, sir. Props to you.
This makes me want to make a video gaming using a red cross just to piss them off.
This is NOT censorship. The Red Cross belongs to the Red Cross. It is one of those rare symbols that you just don't fuck with so that you KNOW that you're safe when you see one. If we start throwing it all over the place as a costume accessory then no one will take it seriously.
The Red Cross was developed as a universally recognized humanitarian symbol to convey one basic concept to the enemy (ANYONE'S enemy): "I am taking care of the injured of this battle. Please do not shoot." We cannot allow that to be tossed about and not taken seriously. There are some things you just don't mess with.
As specified by the Geneva Conventions, the four recognized emblems are to be used only to denote the following:
facilities for the care of injured and sick armed forces members;
*armed forces medical personnel and equipment;*
military chaplains;
International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement organizations such
as the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the
International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC),
and the 185 national Red Cross and Red Crescent societies.
Games are depictions of real life and fiction, so are movies where the red cross is seen and depicted often yet movies don't get the same backlash for portraying it. Get your panties untangled.
It's a universal symbol. Get over it.
oolon colluphid We're talking about video-games here, buddy. What kind of idiot sees a red cross in a game and goes "Guess I should go shoot up a hospital."?
Shrek The Master Baiter There are actual people that would do that though.
The Raccoon what point are making?
If games suffer from this ridiculous lawsuit, why aren't hospitals suffering the same fate? Why aren't churches and households forced out of their homes and executed for the sake of a red cross? Broken Logic, a sad excuse for a copyright abuse.
Why isn't TF2 suffering the same fate? Can't sue them right? Yea, take that fuking red cross extremists.
This is under international law.
@@enochliu8316 Under international law of what? It would have been beneficial if more people learned about the red cross through games and media. The red cross is a symbol of health and safety, if it can be implemented irl, why can't it be implemented in-game or in media? That's my question. (Copyright? Oh please, that's just lame)
@@enochliu8316 then international law needs rework apparently
@@metalslugfan708 Under the Geneva convention, the most important laws relating to war. The red cross means "Red Cross personnel, Don't Shoot."
So, how will this effect that Britannic game coming out that shows it's sinking. The Britannic was a liner built from the same plans as the Olympic and infamous Titanic, it was supposed to be a passenger ship but was made a hospital ship due to the start of WW1. There were red crosses on both sides of the ship and a green band going around to signify that it was indeed a hospital ship and should not be attacked by anyone, that means no German U-boats were supposed to target it. The ship hit a mine in November 1916. The red crosses on the ship cannot be replaced with another symbol nor can the symbols change colors, for that's how it was on the ship, and changing them diminishes historical accuracy.
Yesterday I drew a red plus sign with crayon and showed it to all my friends. Gosh, I sure do hope big bad Red Cross doesn't decide that my art infringes on their copyright and forces me to re-draw it to a red circle. I mean, after all, my drawing might diminish the meaning of the symbol and some combat medics might get killed because enemy combatants didn't realize they were medics; thought they were video game first-aid kits or something, y'know? It's dangerous stuff, misusing such an important symbol like that.
being a combat medic is ba, you never heal anyone :c
The green cross is actually the symbol for medical marijuana.
So that explains why I see green crosses instead of red.
Yeah, but It feel like red is more universally known for first aid.
@@dementos7806 But that's kind of not what it's supposed to indicate. It's supposed to mark medics as not valid military targets.
Well it looks like i know what symbol im going to use to represent medical supplies as often as possible now
I really can't be mad about that, they have a really good reason
caleb slagle Thank God, hope I wasn't the only one who understood why
People get triggered over this lol. They should respect those who volunteer for this organization instead of acting like this
Tasnim Hossain Yeah no shit. This isn't censorship as much as it is keeping an important image from getting watered down
caleb slagle Yeah
Everyone is saying it's medic pack symbol
No! Since 1846 it has meant the Red Cross, and that's the point, they want you to think the 17M volunteers helping in the world, not a med pack
You just showed exactly why they're doing it.The Red Cross doesn't mean "Heals Here", it means "Hey, don't shoot us." It HYPOTHETICALLY stops people from mistaking relief workers and the like from military personnel, because it's cool to shoot the people who signed up to be shot at, not cool to shoot at the people who signed up to help those caught in the crossfire.
I guess the Red Cross doesn't have anything better to do eh?
I'd argue that using the red cross in games for medical purposes would strengthen its meaning. After all, if people get used to say a green cross in media to mean "medical assistance", it could make them question the meaning of a red cross (however unlikely that might be)
"I'd argue that using the red cross in games for medical purposes would strengthen its meaning."
No, that doesn't strengthen its meaning because that *isn't* what it means. The games are teaching the wrong meaning.
I run a colorful organization that uses all colors and symbols that mean specific things, so if I see any of these symbols used incorrectly or colored differently, you best have a proficient lawyer.
I believe that upholding the geneva convention is extremely important. Also considering that the red cross is a universal symbol for "Do not attack us, we will help you", it is *extremely* important that this does not lose its value.